Today is February 9, 2006 and you know what that means. It’s time to commemorate the martyrdom of Husayn ibn Ali, the grandson of Muhammad at the Battle of Karbala in the year 61 AH (AD 680). This tradition is better known as Ashura and is very popular amongst Shia Muslims. Many choose to spend the day performing mourning rituals or passion plays re-enacting the martyrdom. While most people march through the streets beating their chest, others emulate the suffering of Husayn by flagellating themselves with chains or cutting their foreheads until blood streams from their bodies.
Related posts:
- Happy Ashura!
- Happy Gai Jatra My Fine Hindu Friends!
- Happy Chrismahanukwanzakah Everyone
- Not So Happy Valentine’s Day For Muslims
- Benny Hinn–Let The Bodies Hit The Floor
February 9th, 2006 at 5:54 am
mentalists
February 9th, 2006 at 10:42 am
Oh, I prefered never to see this. I’m out of here.
February 9th, 2006 at 12:54 pm
Hmm, sorta reminds me of Holiday shopping here in the US. Which for some reason, I think is linked with religion.
February 9th, 2006 at 12:56 pm
Well, just not as much blood here in the States, but still people getting hurt in mass crowds and mobs.
February 9th, 2006 at 2:02 pm
wow, that’s a bit extreme. Though I am supportive of being sad during this time of morning for what happened to Imam Husain was horrible I am not supportive of these types of over the top rituals.
February 9th, 2006 at 5:51 pm
this that parade where they throw tomatoes left over from an overgrown harvest at each other? needs salt
February 10th, 2006 at 3:49 am
horrible! it is totally stupid, this ASHURA day is a special one because it is related to prophet moses ,that is true that at the same day al-hussien died
but anyway it is unacceptable to harm and bleed each others,everyone should respect his body
it is out of islam..it is a tradition in shiaa areas ,but not a worship by the way
February 10th, 2006 at 12:21 pm
say, illini newspaper in chicago ran the cartoons, saw it on tv just now. WGN channel 9 chicago
February 11th, 2006 at 11:05 pm
ı am muslim. but it is out of islam.
February 14th, 2006 at 2:51 am
this is wildnes and masochism. this pictures is not suitable for islam. I hope allah gives to find the right way them.
February 14th, 2006 at 8:23 am
lmao!!! that is #$*&@^@ed up!!
February 16th, 2006 at 10:39 pm
just remember that these are shia “muslims”
February 17th, 2006 at 7:42 am
absolutely idiots
February 17th, 2006 at 3:30 pm
Uh, ppl, those pictures are fake.
February 17th, 2006 at 3:46 pm
How are they fake David? Please share it with the rest of.
gasmonso
February 17th, 2006 at 8:04 pm
its a ceremony which they use artificial blood according to tell the crime which took place in KARBALA.The sunnis killed innocent people hundred years ago near Baghdad.Please search KARBALA.And the suicide bombers are Sunnis not Shias.Dont be so funny first learn about islam traditions.Sunnis killed Shias several times and this is a theater ceremony for those.Sunnis are very strict go and have some information using KARBALA and Shia on the net.
February 17th, 2006 at 9:40 pm
These pictures are not fake. I have also seen this ceremony featured in a documentary but I can’t remember the name of it. They are real cuts.
They were even cutting the heads of childred and babies - babies whos skulls havent even fully formed to yet.
Idiots, complete idiots….
February 17th, 2006 at 9:49 pm
I found the documentary, it’s called “In the name of God - Scenes from the Extreme”
Info at the link below
http://www.cbc.ca/passionateeyesunday/feature_191003.html
February 18th, 2006 at 12:16 am
the whole shiitism has nothing to do with islam http://shiism.blogspot.com/
February 18th, 2006 at 6:54 am
Almost as bizarre as chopping off the end of *someone else’s* foreskin ?
Almost as bizarre as the ritual drinking of blood and eating flesh of your prophet ?
Almost as bizarre as piercing your nipples, risking horrible infections, just for fashion ?
Almost as bizarre as deliberately poisoning yourself, several times a day, by inhaling toxic chemicals from your cigarrette ?
Shop around, there’s plenty of self abuse to choose from. I just listed a few that might be familiar to the western mind.
Leave these people alone, don’t pretend self righteousness to judge them.
Do they personally inflict this on you ?
February 20th, 2006 at 2:13 am
I am all for self abuse - everybody should be free to do whatever they want to their own bodies.
What I don’t agree with is this idiocy being inflicted on innocent children.
I don’t give my children cigarettes, their forskins are all intact and they have no piercings at all.
February 27th, 2006 at 1:39 pm
Shia’s are not Muslim, and this has nothing to do with Islam. Prophet Muhammad never did this, neither did any of his companions.
Every innovation is misguidance, and those who are misguided will end up in the fire.
May Allah save us from misguidance, Ameen!
February 27th, 2006 at 3:22 pm
Abdul Aziz,
are U kidding - Shias are as Muslim as you are - the victim of the most horendous, hypocritical, so called religion. You and people like you are a typical example what can religion do to the human beings - making them blind, fanatical, intolerant and soaked with hate.
Wake up and be a normal human being. We all are one family on this planet…we do not god or prophet or anyone like that to enjoy life and share it with other living creatures!
February 28th, 2006 at 7:43 am
I am not muslim, but I have observed that shiite muslims are particularly bizarre. They include alot of weird pagan practices into their religion, which is quite different from the sunni muslims. Shiites are real big on demonic rituals, and big on praying to “saints” or whatever they call them. If you want an incite on shiites I recommend the documentary “Mystic Iran”.
March 1st, 2006 at 6:49 pm
We have to nuke them NOW before it’s too late.
March 2nd, 2006 at 4:48 pm
I am a muslim, just let me confirm, this is really STUPID! There’s no celebration for the death of anyone in islam.
This day is related to prophet Moses when he crossed the sea. And muslims should’nt feel happy nor sad for that.
March 2nd, 2006 at 4:51 pm
True shiist are mostly ennemies of islam.
March 20th, 2006 at 8:08 pm
Um, sorry to burst your bubble, but yes, Shias are muslims. I think some of you need to remember Husayn’s sacrifice of his livelyhood, his own life, that of his own children (young and old), and the honor of his sister bibi Zainab for the sake of islam, or else YoU all would be practicing a morbid and perverted Yazidi version of Islam, which would not be islam at all.
Every human has a right to express his grief. The shias have been victims of hostility for over a thousand years, but the revolution lives on with ‘ Ya Hussain’.
There are no ‘pagan’ rituals practiced on Ashura by Shias, the grief expressed is nowhere near that of Prophet Muhammad’s grief when told of his grandsons violent sacrifice.
The wahabis are afraid. Thats all this is about.
March 21st, 2006 at 9:19 am
Shias are muslims even though they differ in many practices from the Sunnis.
I don’t want to discuss the differences in detail on this site but accusations by some Sunnis that the Shia are disbelievers or vice versa (as I see in above comments) are wrong and as far as Islam is concerned not to be done casually.
April 25th, 2006 at 4:00 pm
I was just reading the comments, and was quite surprised to read what some people have been posting.
I would like to clarify some thigns.
First of all, off of the bat, I am shiite.
-No, we do not do demonic rituals or any of that crap.
-The only book that we adhere to is the Koran
-The Prophet is Muhammed
Regarding the self flagullation, it is practiced by many other faiths, including Christianity, just do a google search and see for yourself.
I remember going to the Ashura commemerations when I was younger, and saw people doing that to themselves. No one forced them to do it, it was all their personal choices, though I don’t agree with them cutting infants.
There is a small trend growing to donate blood instead of beating oneself, which I’m happy to see.
August 25th, 2006 at 3:41 am
Ashura is a time where Shia Muslims mourn over the martyrdom of their Imam Hussein (as). While the majority of them attend lectures and seminars and engage in crying, others take it to the extreme and believe that they should go through what he went through in order to fully appreciate him and what he did. I’ve never actually seen this happen with my real eyes but when I do see them on the net I am totally horrified. It’s true that it is forbidden in Islam to harm ones self so I have no idea why they would do it but each individual interprets things differently.
August 25th, 2006 at 3:55 am
And by the way, whoever Luke is, and wherever you got that site from, and whoever reads it, should know that everything on there is absolute BULLSH*T! Not one of those articles are true. Some sad case who dislikes shia’s made all that up to make them look bad and sadly, many people who are ignorant of the truth believe it.
I’m just shocked at how low people can get.
Shias and Sunnis are both Muslims, there are differences but that doesn’t mean that they are two different religions, they believe in basically the same things, and they practice the same things too. You can’t blame the whole Shia community for this, like I said earlier, some take it to the extreme and some don’t, just like in every other religion. There’s good and bad everywhere and it really annoys me when people blame other peoples wrong actions on the religion. Islam does NOT tell muslims to kill non-believers or anything like that. I urge people who have doubts about what Islam is really about, to do some research from RELIABLE sources.
Otherwise, leave Islam alone, I never see people criticising what Christians, Jews, Hindus, Buddhists do, or any other religion for that matter. Why is it that Islam is ALWAYS targeted?!
Everyone should just accept the beliefs of others around them and should just focus on that person’s personality. A religion is supposed to be between an individual and their God.
And that’s all. So please be respectful towards others, and this goes for everyone.
August 25th, 2006 at 10:17 am
for hanan .
salam
every day ashora day must be the day of donating blood in the sheaa community,you know just simple calculation,there is a milions of liters which can be used in order to save people,many people in the world and escpicially in the thierd world die from illneses concerning blood shortage while more than 400 milion people injure them self to initiate their beleifs.
October 25th, 2006 at 5:00 pm
May Allah forgive me for what I have to say.
A few years ago I converted (from nothing) to Islam. I had read the Quran before and was happy with the words of God/Allah. When I went into the world to live islam I felt uncormfortable to be a muslim and grew more and more ashamed to be one. I felt the spirit of the Quran or anything like that cannot be found anywhere among muslims. Instead of hope, faith or love I find quarrel about rules; self-assumed righteousness about which hadith/traditions are valid and which are false and hatred between sects. Many brothers and sisters chant the Quran without knowing the meaning of the words in their own language, just like parrots sing their song. And they know, they all know, but no one feels and no one changes his way of life. No one, no one I met, lives Quranic.
It is this refusal to think for one selves, this reluctance to change and resistance to knowledge and foremost lack of respect to Allah which makes me cry and wonder if my only option is to renounce islam.
You ask, Why is it that Islam is ALWAYS targeted? Well, maybe it is just because of that. The refusal to consider even the posibility that the cause of hatred towards islam is the behaviour of muslims themselves.
Because abberations like 9/11 or these Shia self-mutilations (fake or not!) are done away with on ground that thay are done by despicable fanatics, strayed sects. You can hear that in words like: these are not (real) muslims. You can hear that in words like: You can’t blame the whole Shia (/muslim) community for this.
If my son steals some fruit, I will have to act. And so have muslims. The muslim community has the obligation to act if one (or many) of their brothers goes astray. You want to fight about who is the right? You dont have to fight about who is right and who is wrong. If I dont correct my son I am to blame and I dont earn any respect. If I act but cant get my son to understand I fail as a father; but in that case at least I showed responsibility and so will be accepted by the world.
When I saw the pictures above I felt ashamed again to be a muslim. I feel horrified. Horrified not by the people who perform these rituals, but horrifed by their muslim brothers who actually allow them to continue doing so.
I have not met a brother yet.
My last refuge is go out and travelling. When I meet you, will you be able to show me Islam?
November 2nd, 2006 at 7:48 am
plzz….wait
every one has seen this pics must know that
shiist>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
not muslims
not muslims
not muslims
not muslims
not muslims
November 7th, 2006 at 3:26 pm
all shia and sunnis are brothers and sisters so dont try seperate us u jews and u americans. we belive in the same god and same holy book.
November 7th, 2006 at 3:33 pm
yeah muslim, its always the jews and americans who are the problem…
November 7th, 2006 at 6:10 pm
@muslim
haha… and it was soooo hard to separate you. we had to work really hard to get sunnis and shiites to kill each other. but worry not, my dear muslim, in the end you’re all the same and will be dealt with in the same way.
January 18th, 2007 at 5:28 am
To Boris,
Yes, I will agree with you that ever since the beginning of Islam there has been major conflict between the Shia’s and Sunni’s but what many people worldwide do not realise is that at the end of the day, they are both still Muslim, believing in the same God, the same Prophets, the same Holy Book, the same basic principals and so on. And in regard to your comment about ‘being dealt with in the same way’, I would like to let you know that Muslims and Islam will prevail over all religions and will withstand time right up until the End. So whatever your thinking, get it out of your head. Because it is YOU who will be living in hell FOREVER… you got that? FOREVER! Why? You may ask, because of your beliefs that do no good for you and because of the way you critise others when you don’t even have the slightest idea that it is YOUR religion that is corrupt. But… that’s your problem not ours.
January 18th, 2007 at 1:09 pm
“I would like to let you know that Muslims and Islam will prevail over all religions and will withstand time right up until the End.”
Actually hanan, i would like to tell you that mighty Thor will return and seek vengence on those who turned from him. Sounds crazy doesnt it? well theres really no difference between allah and thor in our eyes. If you read anything on this website youd notice the majority of the people here are atheist, so theres no possible way our religion is corrupt, because we dont have one.
January 18th, 2007 at 4:58 pm
irish…
How dare you even compare Thor and Allah! Allah is only alluded to and guessed at in his holy works. The Eddas clearly define the actions of our master Thor and his deeds such as fishing Jormungander the Midgard serpent from the oceans!
May his hammer swing mightily and crack the skulls of his foes on Ragnarok!
January 18th, 2007 at 6:06 pm
Oh, please! Thor is a wanker. The Celestial Teapot wrothfully rains caffeinated fluid upon his pathetic skull daily.
Let him search the heavens and swing his hammer wildly as he might, but I know that he shall NEVER lay a blow on the Celestial Teapot.
And Allah? The dude didn’t even show up. What a Loser!
January 19th, 2007 at 12:23 am
All hail to Celestial teapot, we who float on a crumpet in the eternal teacup bow down in face of your might.
As it is written in the dangly piece “Must be let to soak for four minutes.” That is the word of the Teapot and it is true.
Death to those who only soak for three minutes or less!!!
January 19th, 2007 at 2:25 am
no worshippers of thor have ever bothered me on a weekend. or have they ever tried to pass legislation that would influence my daily life. or have they ever attacked my country. in my book:
thor > any abrahamic boogie man
January 19th, 2007 at 11:15 am
Hmmmmm… Celestial Tea… Let me soak in it for few minutes.
P.S. Everyone is welcome to join.
January 28th, 2007 at 9:39 am
ummmm this has nothing to do with ashura these freaks are beating themselves to death and in our religion it doesnt say to do that so whatever they re doin they need helpppp big time . that poor baby he’s mom is a freak of natureeee. anyways ashura is not celbrated like that so whatever these people are doinnn its a sin
January 28th, 2007 at 9:57 am
one more thing i went over the comments that were posted seriously some people need to get a life because shii’s are muslims and whether you like it or not they are. And your denial will not really change what was written down in the quraan and hadith like thousands and thousands of years ago. and i do respect everyones religion because if you look in all those 4 holy books all jews,christians,and muslims believe in the same thing. And yeah by the way pleaseee dont sit there and start threatning or fighting with your keyboord because its just winning the olympics in the end you’re still retarted so not really looking for fights with no one on here. And i do say that these people are shii’s and yeah im from teh same group and religion but this is wronnnnggggggggggg no one should ever do this to themselves and chirldren especially infants. so please guyz understand that not all shiis believe in this and our religion doesnt say to do this what so ever extremist just give us a bad name.
January 28th, 2007 at 10:40 am
Oh my god… I’m gonna be sick. Couldn’t you have let me live in blissful ignorance of this thread?
@Lilly
I wonder… are there ANY moslems at all who are doing what islam asks them to do? IIRC every single bad thing about islam is said to be from extremists/maniacs, how many groups like these are there?!
On the front page there are 4 topics about people who understood islam in a wrong way and did some crazy thing… Makes me think, perhaps islam is just too vaguely defined for any practical purposes…
January 28th, 2007 at 11:18 am
lilly said:
so please guyz understand that not all shiis believe in this and our religion doesnt say to do this what so ever extremist just give us a bad name.
I understand that you believe that this is not the way of true Islam, but the people who are doing it believe it is. This site is basically a news and editorial site about religious extremists — people who take their beliefs too far. You aren’t going to see headlines like “Moderate Muslim is a successful parent” or “Guy who goes to Catholic Mass only on Christmas and Easter works at Walmart” because this site is about extremists.
What I would love to hear from you is your support for the claims that these guys are wrong. Maybe some verses from your holy books that would support your stance, historical evidence that this ritual was not practiced by early Muslims, or logical retort to their interpretation of Ashura. We only have one really vocal Muslim regular poster, a chap named Mohamed, and we’d love to have a female perspective.
January 30th, 2007 at 7:04 am
O God ! Help me to say the truth .
Dear !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I am a shia !! why you say about me what you dont know??!!! Do you know me better than me?!( befor being shia, my relegion is “love”.)
Do you beleive in God? Do u beleive all heaven relegions?
I say all heaven relegions have the same message ! all relegions say us : try to get everlife( never die) befor u die ! How it is possible? it is possible only when u get out of your “self” ,( just like a growing seed , the first step of growth(love) is to get out of the shell( self) ).
Do u do,say, see, ear waht satisfy your creator. do u say about Ashura the truth? Do you say what God say about Ashura? do you obey your “self” or your loved( your God) ?
I love all of you. Hossein “had been killed” ! Hossein hate to kill ! hossein like to be burned just like a candle to enlight my and your way to truth. he did what god had ordered ! just like jesus(pbuh). He is actual message of divin books. (just like jesus).
Have you ever seen a christan who hang her neck a cross?! this is the same as emotions of shia and some sunni in Ashura( and some ppl of other religions) . a christian wish ! i wish i were with jesus; so a shia wish! i wish i were with hossein !!
all there sermonies are a symbol only ! when we beat our chest we say :Oh god ! let this stony heart to have frehs water and make me alive.
I say all ppl are brother and sister ! I say “first u then me”.
Hossein teached us the lesson of freedom ! as Gandi ( the Guider of India ppl)said this.
wana know Hossein ? read the poets of Rumi, wana know hossein? try to everclean your heart,to ear the voice of your conscience( your God).
Hossein is the martyr of divin love( as god say in all heaven boodks: “ones who come to God by their money, capitals family and soul” !! )
Hossein say : if u havent a religion, try to be a gentleman and free !!
I say myself: try not to be an insect on the sweetness of this world, try to be a highfly eagle !and see nice harmonies and nice landscapes of truth, see unity, as Zeinab( sister of hossein) said: I didnt see in Ashura but beauties !!
A day befor Ashura, hosseins nefew asked him : o ancle ! am i dead tomorrow? hossein asked, dear! what u define death? the young boy said: for me it is better than golden ring hanged on the chest of a young beauty girl, sweetest than honey !
at the evening of Ashura,the little girl of hossein, whene she was given water , never drinked (after 2-3 days)
, when she saw her father cutten hed,she died at the same moment !!
This is the Exam(test) of Love !! are you a lover? can u do what jesus did? what abraham did with his boy !!
They are a pattern for us !! they say us: try to love eachother for God , not for “self” ! as i do , this is Love !!!!!
sonni is my brother . you are my brother.
Here i cant say more in a little page !!!
The end word: Life is very short, you will ear the Tru( truth) voice soon!! try not to be shamed befor lose opportunity(life, time and chance)!!
Dont say about me ,if u dont know me !!
Your way for you, and mine is for me.
January 30th, 2007 at 9:20 am
I already think my grandpa hears the TruVoice!
http://www.magnatone.com/truvoice.html
Seriously, Daniel, we weren’t talking about you. We were talking about the people in the pictures and article who are obviously doing the things we were talking about.
Do you cut yourself on Ashura?
Do you cut your children on Ashura?
January 30th, 2007 at 10:23 am
Oh my god… I’m sorry but i could only read half of daniel’s post before giving up due to his language.
an interesting point:
Hossein “had been killed†! Hossein hate to kill ! hossein like to be burned just like a candle to enlight my and your way to truth. he did what god had ordered ! just like jesus(pbuh). He is actual message of divin books.
In islam the guy who brought the holy book is Mohammed, and lilly said Shia and Sunni are both the same religion… Shouldn’t a religion be at least agreeing on who the messenger is?
Oh, and not to forget: Not all religions speak of an afterlife.
January 30th, 2007 at 11:25 am
wow, how did this thread get resurected? maybe a bump to the frontpage gasmonso?
I think it’s very funny how both sides say “We are brothers, we both believe this” to which the other side says “We are brother, we both believe that”
February 15th, 2007 at 11:44 am
i totally support this. its their religeous thing. infact they do it to themselves not anybody else
February 15th, 2007 at 11:46 am
Really fatir, judgeing by the picture I would have to disagree. Those little babies didn’t have much of a say in the matter… now did they?
I’m all for people doing whatever they want to themselves. But leave the kids alone. That’s just stupid.
gasmonso
February 15th, 2007 at 3:59 pm
indeed, every religion first commandment should be “Thou must keepeth thy religion to thyself and shallt not bothereth others with it”
February 16th, 2007 at 2:43 am
@hanan
god knows, i am not friendly to religion. out of all religions, i find islam to be the worst in every regard. the only reason i dislike the current war in iraq is because american soldiers are dying there. instead, we could have used this very sectarian conflict to do our job for us. islam is opposed to my way of life, and its followers are not shy about not letting me forget that fact.
an example: the reason iran is not using slingshots is because russia (and others) like money. the reason iran has money is oil. oil is _very_ limited. once it runs out, we’ll f-ing talk, and you won’t like it.
February 16th, 2007 at 9:54 am
Uh, boris? Have you heard of the Iran Contra Affair? The US has supplied weapons to Iran as well. Oh, and we supplied Iraq with almost all of its military equipment that they used on us in both gulf wars as well.
March 14th, 2007 at 5:01 pm
God,
Shias and sunnis DO agree on who the messenger is. They disagree on who was his rightful successor.
March 15th, 2007 at 5:44 pm
whats wrong with EVERYBODY
they r not hurting n e 1 but them selves and 4 the kids they r not doing it hard they r just touching the soft skin
we all believe in god
so let the shia do what they want and don’t blame the Jews the Americans the sunnies and shia we r all people of god
so there is no reason to criticize other religions
this type of stuff that u right can ruin some1s life
and i m a half sunnie and half shia imagine my lfe
March 15th, 2007 at 6:27 pm
786
i m also cant we get along meaning i wrote number 60
i m 13 years old and just to say hanan is right
upeople r ruining my life and showing me how crual u all r
and not going to say n e names but who ever says something bad about allah should be care full cuz allah is god allah is mighty allah has power and everything that happens to u is from allah so u better b respectful and not call allah a loser and just b nice please
and i know most kids will grow up to do this
once again i m a half shia and sunnie living in new york as a 13 year old
thanks to all u supporters
March 15th, 2007 at 6:49 pm
ameer, if you don’t like whats being said then don’t read it. It is our right to say what we want and you cannot simply tell us to shut up. we do not have to show respect to allah if WE DON’T BELIEVE in him. Just to make sure your aware, most of the people on this site are atheist, which means we don’t believe in any god.
March 15th, 2007 at 8:08 pm
i never said to shut up and i never said u have to show respect i said u should
just calm down u bully
March 15th, 2007 at 8:10 pm
u just killed a little of me inside i hope ur happy
March 15th, 2007 at 9:31 pm
“so u better b respectful and not call allah a loser”
*ahem*
“upeople r ruining my life and showing me how crual u all r”
In what way are we ruining your life? Id really like to know so we stop hurting your feelings.
March 17th, 2007 at 12:26 pm
oops ur right i might have said that and ur right i m sorry
u r ruining my life by being mean to each other
but if u don’t want to stop u don’t have to
and happy Saint Patrick’s Day to every 1
April 16th, 2007 at 8:23 am
ISLAM IS NOT A RELIGION. WHICH RELIGION DEMANDS ITS FOLLOWERS TO BEAT THEMSELVES, LEAST OF ALL BABIES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! YOU PEOPLE ARE BEING LED THE WRONG WAY TO LIFE.HOW CAN YOU BEAT AND CHASTISE YOUR BODY????????????????????? YOUR BODY IS A TEMPLE,YOU MUST TREAT IT LIKE ONE
April 17th, 2007 at 3:59 am
Why do all of you servants of God fight amongst each other.
each and every existing religion on earth has at least one thing in common, LOVE ALL AND SERVE ALL.As those who do not see God in all do not see God at all.I am a firm and mighty believer in Sikhism, and my faith will never diminish as my religion teaches me to respect all religions as my own.and as far as God goes,HE IS ONLY ONE>ONLY ONE. we call him by thousands of names like WAHEGURU,ALLAH,RAM etc, but he is only one.we, the whole human race are HIS creation and we are all brothers and sisters.if you cant accept that,i only say that you are being led the wrong way to life
WAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA WAHEGURU JI KI FATEH
April 19th, 2007 at 7:43 pm
hi every one
I just want to tell u that these people are
shiaa and muslims are sunni the are not muslim
muslims dont call any one for help except allah(my god in
English) while shiaa said ALI or Hussain They may come from Iran
MUSLIMS DONT DO THAT
The are lke animals?? what is the benefit of doing that??
They ARE JUST DOING WHAT THEIR IMAM SAID (LIKE KHOMAINY)
If u want to say anything or ask about Islam and shia plz email me on Kholoud25@hotmail.com
April 20th, 2007 at 8:29 am
@Muslim girl:
Yeah sure… those are not true moslems. We heard it a million times over. Get a better excuse.
April 21st, 2007 at 10:56 am
@Agony :–
!!!!a better excuse!!!
Do u ask yourelf why Islam is the fastest growing religeon in US
maybe u are not from this world (;
Do u know why there is always fighting in Iraq
or maybe because u dont know the real Islam I heard that
in UK they teach them Islam in a bad way (violent and torreism)
which is realy not…..
(Sorry for my bad English)
April 21st, 2007 at 11:46 am
???????
April 22nd, 2007 at 7:00 am
@Muslim Girl
let’s see.. why they are the fastest growing?
1. having XXL families when most people have less than 4 children?(or was that Europe?)
2. guys like our friend Mohammed here quitting their life in Islamic countries to join the free folks?
3. people who leave islam are to be killed.
That sums it up for me.
UK? What are you talking about? I am a former moslem living in an islamic village in israel. So excuse me, but Islam is as “peaceful” as the old testament is.
Anyway, those people are proof that that “good people will do good things, bad people will do bad things, but to make good people do bad things you need religion”
May 12th, 2007 at 7:26 pm
I am a Shia muslim, and here is the true Fatwa on this issue by Khamenei:
Q1449: In commemorating the martyrdom of Imam Husayn (a.s.) on the tenth of Muharram, some people hit themselves with a machete, or walk bare-footed on fire. Such actions defame Shi‘ism and put it in a bad light, if not undermine it. They cause bodily and spiritual harms on these doing it as well. What is your opinion in this matter?
A: Any practice that causes bodily harm, or leads to defaming the faith, is haram. Accordingly, the believers have to steer clear of it. There is no doubt that many of these practices besmirch the image of Ahlul Bayt’s (a.s.) School of Thought which is the worst damage and loss.
Q1450: Is hitting oneself with swords halal if it is done in secret? Or is your fatwa in this regard universal?
A: In addition to the fact that it is not held in the common view as manifestations of mourning and grief and it has no precedent at the lifetime of the Imams (a.s.) and even after that and we have not received any tradition quoted from the Infallibles (a.s.) about any support for this act, be it privately or publicly, this practice would, at the present time, give others a bad image of our school of thought. Therefore, there is no way that it can be considered permissible.
by Ayatallah Khamenei
http://www.leader.ir
May 19th, 2007 at 7:46 am
lol, poor stupid and ignorant people..
but at all, this is a fucking cool horror to see
May 19th, 2007 at 8:25 pm
Hmm - not a sight you would see on an average European city street. Am I the only person here who thinks that these blokes are wankers? WHY are they doing this? Have they some personality problems, or they just headcases? Not a religious concern, I think, just prats. Perhaps some couch time with their Shrinks, as I think they are called acros the Pond. There are some idiots in the world, aren’t there?
June 2nd, 2007 at 5:48 am
i m a totaly moderated shia. and all of u above said almost in deffer to above pic. but what u think u just make a cut to ur finger then u will see that u will feel pain for almost a week. then how it is possible that a person cutted himself and also other day he or goes on work too……… my friend it is possibel…. i also experienced it for only its realty to look what could happen. and i experienced that when i cutted myself saying YA HUSSAIN believe me i never felf even a piece of pain. and other day i also marched to my office with no pain at all…. even i stiched on my back….so its not fake my friends its real…. i as a SHIA wants u too…. not say it fake…. u do ur own and let us on ur own…. do practical ….. just cut a but ur finger ,,,u will see finger will pain even a month,,,, but i experience that i cant feel pain even the next day….. so think that What POWER lift all pain…. and how deep cuts could fill in days… JUST THINK with cool mind…………… SHIAS ARE NOT FAKE
June 3rd, 2007 at 2:02 pm
“IN THE NAME OF ALLAH THE MOST MERCIFUL AND COMPASIONATE”
Salam alaykom dear brothers and sisters,
a few things must be made clear here… first of all do not make a judgement (such as shias are not muslims) unless you have researched it and have got sufficient evidence to support it. i am only a kid but i know this.
shias and sunnis are muslims and are united in believing in allah (swt), belief in muhammed ( saw) and the holy qu’ran as their holy book.
June 3rd, 2007 at 2:19 pm
“IN THE NAME OF ALLAH THE MOST MERCIFUL AND COMPASIONATEâ€
oh people do you know who the shias are? shias are muslims who accept ali (as) as first caliph. the holy prophet made clear before his death that ali is his sucsessor. ” man kuntu mawlah fa aliyun mawlah” (who’s ever’s master i was, then ali is now their master). ever since the prophets departure, the shias have been opressed.
” verily allah wishes to drive away all evils from you o ahlul bayt (prophets house hold ali, fatima, hassan , hussayn(AS), and cleanse you thoroughly.” (surat al-ahzab, 33:33)
this verse proves that the ahlul bayt were great people. how dare someone abuse them? how can they say this to those who are loved by the prophet and allah (swt)? you accuse the shia of being bad people when all they are doing is following the prophet’s commands?
“oh you who believe, obey allah and obey the messenger, and those of you in authority (ulul amr)” (surat al-nisa 4:59)
“so submit patiently to thy lord’s command, and obey not of them any guilty one or disbeliever.” (al-dahr 76:24)
the same word for obey has been used in both verses therefore the ulul amr must not be a sinner or a disbeliever- he must be ma’sum. now from verse 33 of surat al ahzab, we know that the only person after the holy prophet (saw) who fitted the description of being infailable and deserving of being ‘ulul amr’ was imam ali (as).
if hussayn (as) had not made that sacrafice muslims would not be following the islam of the holy prophet (sas), but would be wrongly following yazid’s version. oh people the shia are the lovers of the prophet and his houshold. how can aby one hate muslims who follow the prophet?
research it and underastand the true tragedy of karbala and who the shia really are.
June 3rd, 2007 at 2:26 pm
i’m not saying i agree with the shias doing this to themselves, but there is a certain extent of acceptable commeration. most of the time they just beat their chests which is up to them. it is their way of commeerating a tragedy. yet they suffer abuse from people who do not understand islam. who is anybody to say what a true muslim is? is a muslim not someone who believs in allah and his messenger? someone who enocurages good and prohibits evil. it says in the holy qu’ran:
“surely the most honourable of you with allah, is the one among you most careful of his duties (strongest piety)”
instead of argueing, muslims should unite as a ‘ummah’ and put their differences aside.
allah (swt) is the all powrefull, the almighty and the all knowing
he is the best of judges and he knows who the pous people ar (mu’mins).
may allah bless you all
June 4th, 2007 at 9:19 am
allah is all knowingh. who is to say that shias are not better than us?
June 4th, 2007 at 9:20 am
ali should have been the caliph first.
June 5th, 2007 at 12:23 am
Man, ask god to frogive you. I like Ali as any other Caliph, but it doesn’t mean that he has to be the first, so many stories that our prophet put them in that order, and what is that all about, if he was first or last, does it make him less, sure enough not, and if you would ask him, he would tell you that he doesn’t even care, these true Muslims didn’t seek this life, they sought what is bette that this life, and you still talking who should be first.
They are all in heaven, do you think being Caliph is better than being in heaven, and do you thing if he should be first, would god allow that to make last.
You are fetna and distraction for Islam, I hope god forigves you.
June 5th, 2007 at 12:25 am
Look at the pictures above, is it from Islam, that’s bull shit, God never said to hurt your self, you are freaking morons.
I’ve seen these pictures on tv, and I was so surprized how stupid these people.
Are you kidding me?
June 5th, 2007 at 7:55 am
Yeah, Mohamed, they remind me of the idiot Christians who literally crucify themselves every Easter.
June 5th, 2007 at 9:55 am
what is ur problem ppl, we r not arguin ova ho shuld be first, were saying this is how the sunni-shia split formed. we r muslims and u are nobody to say we r not, allah is alknowing and he judges whos a gd muslim or not. i know what they r doin is rong, but dont label all shias like that. they are rememberin a trajedy, and u owe imam hussain for his sacrifice, coz if he didnt do what he did u wuld be a slave to yazid…
June 5th, 2007 at 12:57 pm
how dare anyone say that the shias are not muslims! and ofcorse it makes a difference if ali ibna abi talib (as) was the first caliph or not. if he was first he wuld chose his succesor. remeba that thruout his whole life ali was a mu’min. unlike the other caliphs (who i also respect), who were a unbelievers at some point in their lives. ali (as) was the first convert to islam. when every1 mocked the holy prophet (saw), ali defended him. we all agree that whatever the prophet commands is an order of allah (swt). for example even in the holy qu’ran allah (swt) says ‘qul’ (say) to the holy prophet. the holy prophet chose ali to be his successor because he knew only he had the qualities to do so. after the prophet’s death it was vital that there would be a caliph who wuld be able to continue the prophets message. we know muhammed (pbuh) was the last messenger of allah, but after he died the calipha was stolen from ali. look at all the abuse shias suffer. do you even know what happened at karbala? do you not thank allah that you were born a muslim? if hussayn had not doen that you would be not following islam! you compare yazid with hussayn? yazid’s grandfather was ubu sufyan, an enemy of the holy prophet (saw). while on the other hand hussayn’s grandfather was tegh messenger of allah muhammed (saw). yazid was so evil he wuld kill and drink alcohol. yet you put him ahead of hussayn? this yazid had hussayn’s head cut of. he wanted revenge from the holy prophet because of the deaths of his family.
the holy prophet (pbuh) said: hussayno mini wa ana minal hussayn’ (hussayn is of me and i am of hussayn)
many stories highlight the prophet’s love for hussayn.
even in iraq now, the shia are being terrorized and are having their heads cut of by terrorists. you call that islam? you call that justice? you compain when some shias hurt themselves but its fine for terrorists to terrorise them?
may allah forgive us all
June 5th, 2007 at 1:40 pm
thats only some shias. others donate blood which is much better. hussayn didnt say to do this. its ppl doing it out of their own will. us muslms shuld concerntrate about unting ourselves. not abusing each other. just because SOME shias do this you think all do? u think just becasue they do that they r not muslims? what about prayer don’t they pray? or fast? or do good deeds? only allah is the all knowing. first of all correct ur mistakes then tell others. you can’t say ur perfect and that ur a gr8 person who is defintly gonna enter heaven. thats for allah to decide. read books, research different veiwpoints. don’t just rely on what ur parents tell u or what ppl of ur faith say. imagine u were born into a different faith. wuld u still say that it was correct? thinl.. allah has given us brains to use..
June 5th, 2007 at 8:23 pm
Hold on little but, I didn’t say you are not a Muslims. Who ever said the shehada is a Mulim, and I’m not judging anybody.
Do you think Ali was bothered for not being the caliph, did you think he care, do you think he was looking forward to it. Don’t you believe in destiny? Do you think what happen out of God control?
That were my questions, you said it’s not fair, Did Ali( karam Allah Wajhah) need you to defend him. He is better than me and you, and if he was that mad, I think he would show it.
I said before I’m against killing against who ever, it doesn’t even have to be a Muslim, I don’t like or support killing.
I don’t compare amybody to anybody, only God know who is better than who, so you are the one who judging people, answer my questions and you will see I’m right.
June 6th, 2007 at 3:32 pm
man do you know what a huge difference it wuld have been if ali was the caliph first! he deserves it and ofcourse he cared, the islamic ummah had to be controlled and taught the prophets version of islam, not YAZIDS!
June 6th, 2007 at 9:34 pm
The version of Islam would make you hit yourself and got your body with blood, Islam has no version, you want to make a versions of it, fear god.
You didn’t answer my questions yet, do you think God didn’t destine that Abu Baker to be The first and Ali to be the fourth.
I don’t what you argue about, is it that what you care about if Ali first or last.
What version os Islam you talk about, your version, and if you think that was a differnet version of Islam was applied in the other Calip’s era, do you think Ali would stay silent, don’t do any thing about it. Ali was ready to fight whoever for Islam, do you think he would see wrong things happen and he would let it go. You should know Ali better.
I like Ali may be even more than you, but I know how Ali was, and how simple he is, he wouldn’t care about being Caliph.
The other question I would like some shit to answer, Abu Baker was reach before Islma, how much money did he has when he died? the same about Omar and Othman and Ali. Being caliph was a prevliage, it was a huge responsibility in front of God.
June 7th, 2007 at 1:52 pm
“IN THE NAME OF ALLAH, THE MOST MERCIFUL AND COMPASIONATE”
Salam alaykom dear brothers and sisters,
to answer brother muhammed’s questions….
“verily your gaurdian (wali) is Allah and his messenger (muhammed) and those who believe and establish the prayer, and give charity (alms) while they are (in ruku) bowing down.” (surat al-maisah, 5:55)
to begin with, hussayn (as) martydom was vital and we all know that, sunni or shia. when hussayn (as) made the sacrafice, he did it to show us aYazid’s ersion of islam was corrupt and is not the true islam that the prophet put into practice. He did NOT ask anyone to beat themselves. the trajedy is one that must always be remembered. on Ashura of Muharram, it is a day were the Holy prophet (saw) was slaghted unmercifuly by the hypocrites by the order or Yazid (may allah’s cursings be upon him). yet some people have the courage to call Yazid a mawli and accept him as a mu’min!
YOU ARE TELLUNG ME IT DOESN’T MATTER WHO WAS THE CALIPH FIRST? ofcourse it does…
The holy prophet made it clear at Ghadeer Khum, that Ali was to succeed after him by the orders of Allah (swt).
“man kuntu mawlah fa aliyun mawlah…” (who’s ever’s master i was then ali is his/her master…)
this is evidence that we not only obtain from the shia books but also from the sunni book of Bukhari! (just incase someone would like to call it a lie.)
at ghadeer khum when the annoncement was made, the following verse was sent down:
“o messenger! deliver what has been revealed to you from your lord; and if you do not do it, then you have not delivered his message, and Allah will protect you from the people ; surely Allah will not guide the unbelieveing people” (surat al-maidah, 5:67). it is vital that ali (as) was to be the caliph because only he had the sufficient qualities to do so and contol the islamic ummah like the prophet. he was a believer all his life, the first male to accept islam, more loyal to the holy prophet than any other…
brother muhammed, you say that ali didn’t care? after the prophet (pbuh)’s death, while ali (as) was arranging the funeral a group of people were planning to steal the calipha and go against the holy prophet (pbuh)’s word. it is obvious who these people were…
these people stole the calipha from ali (as) by force. threatning him and his family. just to remind you his family being the family of the messenger of allah (muhammed). as a result of this force, fatima (as) the holy prophet’s beloved daughter was killed.
ali (as) was a just man and deserved the calipha more than them. the other caliphs put their relatives and freinds in power across the islamic empire. they acted unjustly with the treasury given unfair amounts.
when ali (as) finally became the caliph, his justice was shown as he acted fairly and controlled the ummah in the fair and justical way the holy prophet (as) had. he was so justical that some of his own followers (the khawarij)turned against him because he was not treating them as the previous caliphs were.
you talk about destiny? allah (swt) has not pre planned our destiny, other wise our life would be useless because we would have no choice to do good or bad. therefore, freewill exists and we have the option to control our actions. allah (swt) is the allknowing and knows our future, but has given us freewill to decide. otherwise on the day of judgement we could just tell our lord allah (swt) that we had no choice but to do bad. therefore allah (swt) knew that the calipha would be stolen from ali (as) and even the holy prophet and ali (as) knew. however, this is part of life, to see who would stick by the holy prophet (saw’s word and who would go against it.
allah (swt) meant this to happen as part of life. if everything was perfect, there would be no need for life because we would all be true muslims who never sin and there would be no test.
you say you like ali more than me? i am no one to say you don’t, but why don’t you accept him as the rightfull calif even with the holy prophet (saw)’s command?
understand the similarities between shias and sunnis…
we are closer to each other thatn anyone may think. we are united in tawheed, accepting muhammed as the final messenger of allah (swt, and the holy quran as being our holy book. the above images represent SOME shias. they do it to commerate hussayns sacrifice. what they are doing is not killing them, they are doing what they can handle. instead they could be donating that blood. but its up to them, just like its up to you to make choices in life such as following islam as a religion.
if you understood the love the holy prophet (saw) had for hussayn, and how hussayn had been salghtered then mabye you would understand how opressed us
muslims are as a ummah.
abu bakr, umar and uthman did not deserve to be caliphs nor were they chosen by the holy prophet (saw), they elected themselves and went against the holy prophet’s command, that is the point i am making. ali (as) should have had control so that he may select his successor. however, the ummayids were formed and were against ali (as) and his followers (shias). they made it obligitory (wajib) to curse ali (as) in the athaan!!!!!!!
can you believe these people? not only do they steal the calipha, but they curse the shais , who were just following allah (swt)’s commands?
lets compare my dear freind….
the grandfather of Yazid was ubu sufyan who was an enemy of the holy prophet (as)…
the grandfather of hussayn (as) was the holy prophet (saww) himself…
the people would complain and say how this man muawiya would lead the salah while he was drunk! these ummayids were no muslims! they drank alcohol gambled killed and did all sorts of sins, yet still they are put ahead of the hlulbayt (as) (prophet’s houshold). did i not mention ayat al-tathir in my previous entry ( 33:33), these people were clean of sins… if they were in power they would be justical… however whenever they tried they would be tortured or killed by the ummayids (and later the abbasids as well).
my dear brother, i hope this answers your questions… inshala you will understand why us shias remember the tragedy of hussayn (as) and why we commerate his martydom… most shias only beat themselves to an acceptable level, only some do this blood thing and i for one am against it. but don’t think all shia are like this…
may allah bless you all…
June 7th, 2007 at 11:33 pm
I appreciate taking the time answring my questions.
You mentioned that why don’t I accept that Ali was the rightful Caliph, I accept that Ali was a caliph and he one of the best and close friend for our prophet.
The argument that our prophet recommend it that Ali is the succesor is fault, our prophet wouldn’ do such a thing, he wants Muslims to decide their own fate.
The other thing if Ali knew that what our prophet dicided that Ali should be the Caliph, do you think the threatning would work with Ali, Ali was the most brave man Islam know, and I can tell you stories about his courage, and if you really know Ali, Ali would do anything to get our prophet order done, and you know that better than me.
You are talking about Ali like he is helpless, Ali was a true believer, he wouldn’t hestiate a second to sacrify his life for Muhammed’s order.
We feel bad for Hussein like we feel bad for Omar and Othman, we don’t make differnce between any of the sahaba, should we blame our self for Omar death or Othman or Ali or Huessin, it’s god will for them to die this way, why are you blaming yourself, that sanity.
I’m sorry that i’m little bit harsh, but the way you talk about Ali, it shows that you know little about him.
There is no way that they cursed Ali in Atahn, that’s bull-shit, and why Sunni like Ali now, what the differnece, why the Sunni now shows Ali as a the Islam hero? Tell what the differnce?
June 13th, 2007 at 10:48 am
To be frank these are not fake i have witnessed these “tradition” many times as a muslim from shiate sect.
but to also these are condisered by the majority of shi’ate schollars as an unacceptable and self suffering acts.
these acts are not rituals but traditions of the common people “anyone in the society” expressing there grieve for the Heroic death of Hussein grandson of the profet Muhammad
Shi’ate Schollars prohibeted them because its obvious that the are harming the image of islam world wide and special the shiate sect. THEY ARE TRADITIONS NOT RELATED TO ISLAM IN ANYWAY. so now we cant consider that the KKK clan’s rituals or any sect group’s riyual in the west is a act of christianity.
Please try to see these pix from the right perspective before making any judgemnt on any one.
Please p[lease please,, try to know more about Hussien and his revolution for the cause of human rights that after 1000 year the westren world is advocating for , while we already has embraced this concept 1000 year ago
June 14th, 2007 at 5:46 am
every one has seen this pics must know that
shiist>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
not muslims
not muslims
not muslims
not muslims
not muslims
yes u r right
June 15th, 2007 at 3:47 am
I wonder what happens if we get the shiist here… my take would be “sunnies >>>> not muslims” but who am i to decide who gets the right to call himself a moslem?
I’ll just laugh my ass off when Zeus throws you both into hell at the end
June 15th, 2007 at 12:40 pm
“IN THE NAME OF ALLAH, THE MOST BENIFEFICENT”
Salam alaykom dera brothers and sisters,
before i start i would like to make it clear to ‘another muslem’ (no 95 of this pg) that us shias are muslims and that he or she is nobody to tell us we are not. who ever accepts allah as the only God, the most powerful who has no father or son, accepts muhammed as his prophet and his last messenger, the holy qu’ran as their holy book (hence says the shahadah) IS A MUSLIM!
also i would like to apologise for this late reply brother muhammed, i was busy with exams.
the event of GHADIR KHUM is a fact. you can not deny what not only is written in our hadith books (shia) but also the sunni hadith books. the event is accepted by both schools of thought. however, the differnec is that sunnis say that the holy prophet called ali as the caliph of his houshold and not the moslem ummah, which makes no sense seeing how the prophet said ‘ man kuntu mawlah fa aliyun mawlah’ (whos evers master i was then ALI IS HIS MASTER)
the second point, you say that ali would have used force? ali is a person who defends islam. if he used force that would only cause conflict. ali, unlike the other ‘caliphs’, was a man of patience and strenth both mentally and physically. they were not kufar for his to do that. never once did ali (as) raise a sword first aginst an enemy.
i am not talking about ali as helpless, neither am i trying to convert you into a shia muslim, my only aim is to tell you what happened. allah (swt) has given you a brain to make judgements. the event took place, tell me why you do not accept it? is the word of umar, ubu bakr and uthman stronger than the word of muhammed (saw)?
as you know muhammed’s (saw) actions are governed by allah (swt) order. even in the holy qu’ran allah orders the prophet by saying ‘qul’ (say).
muhammed made it clear that ali was to succeed, how could a man like muhammed (saw) leave the islamic ummah unguided?
the other caliphs do not have the qualities or the ability to control the ummah the way the prophet did. at one point in their lives they were kufar. after converting to islam, it does not mean that they were perfect.
muhammed chose ali by the order of god, and the order of god is not wrong.
for your info, yazid hated ali (as). he wanted revenge . what kind of person would put yazid ahead of hussyn. hussain representing justice and the true islam of the holy prophet, while this guy yazid, was a muslim by name but not by nature. yazid hated ali and his shia. you tell me yazi should HAVE BEEN the successor rather than hassan (as) alis son??
may allah bless you all….
June 15th, 2007 at 6:31 pm
@muslim boy,
“how could a man like muhammed (saw) leave the islamic ummah unguided?”
Just beautiful… I have been asking myself this question myself for sometime… guess the shieities have the solution… at least it’s more logical.
One question though: is it true that you believe that the angel gabriel gave the quran to mohammed by mistake when it was intended to be for ali?(this story is common by the sunnies over here, was never able to verify it)
June 15th, 2007 at 10:42 pm
Our meant to leave it this way, to show people that you can’t inherit authiority.
He wanted to leave this issues for people judgment.
Say who should be the Caliph, it’s waste of time to debate.
Our prophet promised the Omar and Abu Baker and Ottman with heaven, so how they are that bad like Shitt saying.
Ali will never use force, but he is not afraid to express it and try to show the Muslims the right way, and based on some Shitt said, that he threaten his family. That doesn’t make sense as I said before, Ali was the bravest Muslim ever exist, he wouldn’t scared about his family when it comes to God will.
June 16th, 2007 at 11:08 am
“IN THE NAME OF ALLAH, THE MOST MERCIFUL AND COMPASIONATE”
Salam alaykom dear brothers and sisters,
to answer ur question ‘agony’…
no, us shias do not believe in what you say, THAT IS WRONG.
we believe the quran was sent down to MUHAMMED intentionally just like our sunni brothers. however, we believ that ali (as) was the rightful caliph as only he had the sufficient qualities to do so.
is’nt it ironic how ali (as) was a pious person all his life and was the first to embrace islam and defend the holy prophet? while if you contrast that to the other so called ‘caliphs’, the were kufars at one point in their lives and later converted to islam.
brother muhammed…
at the moment you seem to be missing the point and avoiding my questions…
do you not accept that ali (AS) was chosen (not recommended), by the holy prophet (saw) at ghadir khum? this is a FACT! even you sunnis accept it, it is in your books as well as ours. it is a hadith.
the holy prophet was on his farewell pilgrimige when he stopped thousands of the muslim followers in the scorching heat of the sun. he raised ali’s (as) hand and made it clear. how much times do i need to repeat my self : ‘MAN KUNTU MAWLAH, FA ALIYUN MAWLAH” (whos ever’s master I was then ALI is now also to him/her a master!!!!!!!!!)
and for your information, fatima (as), the holy prophet’s daughter , was martyred. and don’t try and twist the truth! the people who elected themselves and chose to go against muhammeds will, went up to her house in order to force ali (as) to give up the caliphat. the killed her by crushing her behind the door and killed her unborn baby (muhsin).
these people were meant to be good muslims? you put them befre ali (as)? for god’s sake, as soon as the prophet (saw)died, they went aginst him, stole the clipha, killed fatima???? and on top of that they were not just!
they put their family members in high positions across the islamic empire. as a result mu’awia broke the peace treaty between him and hassan (as), for that reason, hussayn (as) was slaughtered and martyred on the 10th of muharam.
and what a surprise, that SOME OF the sunni decide to fast on that day, i’ll tell you why because to celebrate yazids victory!!!!
answer this question : was yazid a good man?
yet some ppl put him ahead of the ahlulbayt (as).
the ahlul bayt (prophets houshold: muhammed, ali, fatima, hassan, hussayn, and all the imams), are free of sin. they are mentioned in the quran of being pure (refer to my previous entry)…..
may allah bless u…
June 16th, 2007 at 11:17 am
without authority, society goes corrupt,
you need a strong pious person to continue the prophets teachings. is it fair of allah (swt), to give the people of the prophet (saw)’s time a guider but leave the people after his death unguided?
who has the correct qualities to interpret the quran and explain to the ummah islam like the prophet.
not ubu bakr, not uthman nor umar. these people were not good people to be so greedy and want the calipa. ali was more than just a companion or son in law for muhammed (saw), he was a brother and a puious person. he had patience, somthing that the other ‘califs’, didnt because they refused the prophets order and wanted the calipha for themselves!
what kind of person would kill fatima (as), just because she refused to let them enter her home!
this is the rasool’s daughter. the prophet has said ‘fatima is the mother of her father’.
yet these people not only confiscate the garden that the prophet gave to her, but stole the calipha from ali (as).
it is not logical to love mu’awia and hussayn. it is obvious one was the good guy and the other the bad.
June 16th, 2007 at 5:01 pm
Omar got killed and Ottman got killed, nobody of Sunnis crying their death, it’s God will and he has wisdom in doing it that way.
What you are saying is the following, that God wasn’t able to make Ali caliph, because that was god and Muhammed’s will, but god couldn’t get his will, that’s exactly what you are saying.
You know it’s written in the sky who will be the next caliph, so what you say here that god couldn’t get his will.
I’m no judge to say who is good and who is bad, only God know what was going on at this time.
June 17th, 2007 at 12:09 am
@Mohammed,
“You know it’s written in the sky who will be the next caliph, so what you say here that god couldn’t get his will.”
So the names of your currently currupt kings of arabian countries were also written in the sky? I’m sorry to say that but if THAT’S true then god must be a real asshole.
@muslim boy,
Thanks for your explanation. Guess the sunnies aren’t really true of heart when talking about other groups either.
No, I don’t think it should matter when a person embraced islam, it would depend on the qualities of that person(this does not mean ali didn’t have the qualities. I don’t know enough to judge that)
So if both Sunnies and Shieeie’s believe in pretty much the same thing, why are they separate groups? I mean who cares what SHOULD have been? it’s over, done. What matters is what we do now.
@123,
Dunno about Omar, but from what I know AbuBaker didn’t really want to be a Caliph…
@no one in particular
This is turning into a Sunni VS Shia debate
June 17th, 2007 at 5:54 am
‘ man kuntu mawlah fa aliyun mawlah’ (whos evers master i was then ALI IS HIS MASTER)
June 17th, 2007 at 6:15 am
“IN THE NAME OF ALLAH THE MOST MERCIFUL AND COMPASIONATE”
Salam alaykom to u all,
Brother muhammed, i refuse to carry on with you avoiding my questions like this. i am trying my best to answer yours, yet you just avoid mine and create more questions.
allah is all powerful and could have done anything. i not once hav said allah could have NOT made ali caliph like you are suggesting i am, NO NO NO. that is wrong. allah is aware of everything,
muhammed elected ali by the order of allah. this election was made public and the evidence to support this is in your hadith books as well as in ours, so do not call it a lie!!!
ali was more just than the other so called claiphs, i hate to say this but in a way the others were traitors as they went against the prophets word.
you are trying to twist what i am saying. you are making statements and are falsely suggesting i made the comment.
“What you are saying is the following, that God wasn’t able to make Ali caliph, because that was god and Muhammed’s will, but god couldn’t get his will, that’s exactly what you are saying.”
WHEN DID I SAY THAT!
i am highlighting the fact that ali and his shias were and always have been opressed. at what point did omar, ubu bakr and uthman have the RIGHT to elect themselves.
why did they go aginst the holy prophets will? the point is thata allah and muhammed chose ali, and even you acknowledge the event of ghadir took place, but are refusing to accept it as the truth.
rather than fearing allah, the hypocrites feared muhammed. they were on his side when he was present, but the moment he passed away, these people betrayed him and turned against him. you have no evidence to say muhammed (saww) chose the others. they were traitors and you know that.
people say ‘why do you care its only the past…’
i’ll tell you why we care, because this is a man who was opressed because he was a true believer who was entitled to the calipha. his calipha would have controlled the ummah like the prophet. the verses i have mentioned highlight ali (as) qualities. he was a mu’min all his life not like the others.
allah says to follo wpeople with the description he mentioned after the prophet. and only ali matches those descriptions. ali was free of sins (ayat al tathir 33:33)
“verily your gaurdian (wali) is Allah and his messenger (muhammed) and those who believe and establish the prayer, and give charity (alms) while they are (in ruku) bowing down.†(surat al-maisah, 5:55)
the above verse is a description of ali (as) personality. just to remind you it was ali who gave his charity while he was in ruku (another story also accepted by ahlul sunnah incase you wish to call it a lie)
answer my questions i have posed….
stop skipping them because you know they make apoint….
may allah bless u…
June 17th, 2007 at 6:16 am
Did the Prophet Appoint a Successor?
O Messenger, Proclaim what has been sent down to you from your Lord; and if you don’t do it, you have not delivered His Message (at all); and Allah will protect you from the people (Qur’an: Chapter 5, Verse 67)
Us Shia believe that the proclamation mentioned by the Qur’anic verse was fulfilled by the Prophet (s) when he appointed Imam ‘Ali bin Abi Talib (a) as his successor on the day of Ghadir Khumm.
Do the Sunni scholars consider this event authentic?
The number of Sunni authorities who narrate this event, both in detail and insummary, is mind boggling! This historic event was narrated by 110 Companions of the Prophet (s), 84 Successors from the following generation
and then by many hundreds of scholars of the Islamic world, from the first to the fourteenth century AH (seventh to twentieth century CE).
A very small selection of these sources is given below. Many of these scholars not only quote the Prophet’s declaration but also call it authentic:
􀂉 al-Hakim al-Naysaburi, alMustadrak
`ala al-Sahihayn (Beirut), volume 3, pp. 109-
110, p. 133, p. 148, p. 533. He expressly states that the tradition is sahih in accordance with the criteria of al-Bukhari and Muslim; al-Dhahabi has confirmed
his judgment.
􀂉 al-Tirmidhi, Sunan (Cairo), vol. 5, p. 633
􀂉 Ibn Majah, Sunan, (Cairo, 1952), vol. 1, p. 45
If there still remains doubt about the historic importance of this statement and the efforts of some people to cover it up, let this be the final word, this is What happened on the day of Ghadir Khumm.
Ghadir Khumm is a location some miles from Makkah on the road to Madinah. When the Prophet (s) was passing by this place on 18 Dhu’l Hijja (10 March 632) on his return from the Farewell Pilgrimage, the verse “O Messenger, Proclaim what has been sent down…” was revealed. He therefore stopped to make an announcement to the pilgrims who accompanied him from Makkah and who were to disperse from that junction to their respective destinations. By the orders of the Prophet (s) a special pulpit made of branches of trees was erected for him. After the noon prayer the Prophet (s) sat on the pulpit and made his last public address to the largest gathering before his death three months later.
The highlight of his sermon was when, taking Imam ‘Ali (a) by the hand, the Prophet (s) asked his followers whether he was superior in authority (awla) to
the believers themselves. The crowd cried out in one voice: “It is so, O Apostle
of Allah”.
He then declared: “He of whom I am the master (mawla), of him ‘Ali is also the master (mawla). O God, be the friend of him who is his friend, and be the enemy of him who is his enemy.”
Immediately after the Prophet (s) finished his speech, the following verse of the Qur’an was revealed:
Today I have perfected your religion and completed my favor upon you, and I
was satisfied that Islam be your religion. (Qur’an 5:3)
After his speech, the Prophet (s) asked everybody to give the oath of allegiance to ‘Ali (a) and congratulate him. Among those who did so was ‘Umar bin al- Khattab, who said: “Well done Ibn Abi Talib! Today you became the master of all believing men and women.”
An Arab, having heard of the event of Ghadir Khumm, came up to the Prophet (s) and said: “You commanded us to testify that there is no deity but Allah and that you are the Messenger of Allah. We obeyed you. You ordered us to perform the prayers five times a day and we obeyed. You ordered us to observe fasts during the month of Ramadhan and we obeyed. Then you commanded us to offer pilgrimage to Makkah and we obeyed. But you are not satisfied with all this and you raised your cousin by your hand and imposed him upon us as our master by saying ‘Ali is the mawla of whom I am mawla.’ Is this imposition from Allah or from you?” The Prophet (s) said : “By Allah
June 17th, 2007 at 6:17 am
To find out detailed information on the event of Ghadir Khumm, visit:
http://al-islam.org/ghadir/
June 17th, 2007 at 6:17 am
finishing the last scentence:
The Prophet (s) said : “By Allah who is
the only deity! This is from Allah, the Mighty and the Glorious.”
June 17th, 2007 at 6:19 am
brother ‘agony,
u r soo right…
why are the shias and the sunnis different groups? we should unite as an ummah.
however , you must understand that what happened in the past make sa huge difference to the present. even in modern society, the shias are tarfgets for abuse, for instnce in iraq the shias are having their heads cut off because of their beliefs by the anti-shias .
this is wrong, some wish to cover what really happened because they refuse to accept that what they are following is invalid.
thanks for ur time anyway..
June 17th, 2007 at 8:03 am
@muslim boy,
Too bad there are no shias in Israel(none i know about anyway), sounds like it’ll be fun to learn how small differences in(IMHO) secondary matters can create such a huge conflict between two groups, even after 1000+ years.
I am sure what happened back then _did_ make a huge difference to the present, but I don’t see how fighting over it will make anything better(except if you’re a historian)
Make sure to drop by if you ever come to israel(or perhaps jordan), don’t worry, we don’t bite.
June 17th, 2007 at 11:22 am
“IN THE NAME OF ALLAH, THE MOST MERCIFUL AND COMPASIONATE”
Salam alaykom,
@agony
as hard as anybody may try, in life their will always be extremists in most religions, and in some cases even religious branches (ie. sunni or shia). most people do not want conflict, yet others do.
for example, if you look back into history, this man yazid was so selfish and unmerciful that the ordered the shias to be beaten or ikilled. hussayn (as), was a great man.
however, i don’t understand how some ppl can put yazid ahead of him, or in some cases even say yazid was better than him. this is what i mean, in life you have ppl who do not like being open minded, they refuse to listen or to understand other points of veiws. they believe what they believe is right and anything else deserves to go to hell. this is wrong, even in the holy qu’ran it says there is no obligation in religion.
if you look back to the past until today, shias are being opressed and its obvious. just the other day someone called me a terrorist and said i was avery bad person who is not a muslim. when i asked him why he said that because his parents teach him to hate the shias. just for your information this person is a ahmadi muslim.
for that reason ppl must understand each other’s beliefs and not critisize them. conflict should be avoided, but justice will never be served in this life.
thats why we need a hereafter (afterlife), so that god can be the judge.
“is allah not the best of judges?” (95:8)
its nice of you to invite me to israel, but i doubt i’ll ever go there…
June 17th, 2007 at 11:42 am
“thats why we need a hereafter (afterlife), so that god can be the judge.”
Replace “need” with “would like to have” and I’ll agree with you. but to say it plainly: I think that’s just wishful thinking on your side… I mean how can you be sure there is a god, an afterlife and whatever else your religion teaches?
Oh and i have no idea what an Ahmadi is(probably a branch of islam, but if so i don’t know anything about it), so I’ll be very grateful if you’d explain.
June 17th, 2007 at 12:23 pm
“IN THE NAME OF ALLAH, THE MOST MERCIFUL AND COMPASIONATE”
BROTHER ‘AGONY’….
- the perfevt harmony of CREATION around us points to the existance of a creator. can such a beutiful, original and complex creations, from single-celled amoeba to the complex brain of man, have evolved by chance?
- evidence in instinct, as hard as it may be to believe their can never be a 100% athiest. this is because belief in god is a natural instinct. everything in life is based on morality , some may argue the only good thing religion brought was morality.
if their was no morality in life then there would be no such thing as good or bad or right or wrong. anyone who has morality has fear in something, because your morals are based on arule set by somthing. in this case its god, because if it wasn’t the whole idea of morality would have no point and we would all be going around committing crimes have no sense of respect and life would have no meaning.
-evidence in logic, everything has a trigger, therefore everything takes place due to a cause- therefore there is cause and effect. bertrand Russell once said that he would believe in God, if only he understood who had caused God to come into existance. although the discussion about this is a bit complicated, we can simplify it slightly. we believe that the existance of an ‘Ultimate acuse’ is necessery, otherwise if we imagine a being created God we must ponder over who created that being?
we can see that this arguement is endless. however, what we cannot deny is the effect of taht ultimate cause, which is the abundant glory of creation we see around us. it therefore follows that teher has to be a cause that has not been an effect of anything else and that ultimate cause is god. therefore an uncaused cause is vital other wise the idea of us just happening to be created without intention or purpose contradicts its self. once anyone accepts that god exists, we have to endeavor to understand the nature of hi