Today is February 9, 2006 and you know what that means. It’s time to commemorate the martyrdom of Husayn ibn Ali, the grandson of Muhammad at the Battle of Karbala in the year 61 AH (AD 680). This tradition is better known as Ashura and is very popular amongst Shia Muslims. Many choose to spend the day performing mourning rituals or passion plays re-enacting the martyrdom. While most people march through the streets beating their chest, others emulate the suffering of Husayn by flagellating themselves with chains or cutting their foreheads until blood streams from their bodies.
Related posts:
I already think my grandpa hears the TruVoice!
http://www.magnatone.com/truvoice.html
Seriously, Daniel, we weren’t talking about you. We were talking about the people in the pictures and article who are obviously doing the things we were talking about.
Do you cut yourself on Ashura?
Do you cut your children on Ashura?
Oh my god… I’m sorry but i could only read half of daniel’s post before giving up due to his language.
an interesting point:
Hossein “had been killed†! Hossein hate to kill ! hossein like to be burned just like a candle to enlight my and your way to truth. he did what god had ordered ! just like jesus(pbuh). He is actual message of divin books.
In islam the guy who brought the holy book is Mohammed, and lilly said Shia and Sunni are both the same religion… Shouldn’t a religion be at least agreeing on who the messenger is?
Oh, and not to forget: Not all religions speak of an afterlife.
wow, how did this thread get resurected? maybe a bump to the frontpage gasmonso?
I think it’s very funny how both sides say “We are brothers, we both believe this” to which the other side says “We are brother, we both believe that”
i totally support this. its their religeous thing. infact they do it to themselves not anybody else
Really fatir, judgeing by the picture I would have to disagree. Those little babies didn’t have much of a say in the matter… now did they?
I’m all for people doing whatever they want to themselves. But leave the kids alone. That’s just stupid.
gasmonso
indeed, every religion first commandment should be “Thou must keepeth thy religion to thyself and shallt not bothereth others with it”
@hanan
god knows, i am not friendly to religion. out of all religions, i find islam to be the worst in every regard. the only reason i dislike the current war in iraq is because american soldiers are dying there. instead, we could have used this very sectarian conflict to do our job for us. islam is opposed to my way of life, and its followers are not shy about not letting me forget that fact.
an example: the reason iran is not using slingshots is because russia (and others) like money. the reason iran has money is oil. oil is _very_ limited. once it runs out, we’ll f-ing talk, and you won’t like it.
Uh, boris? Have you heard of the Iran Contra Affair? The US has supplied weapons to Iran as well. Oh, and we supplied Iraq with almost all of its military equipment that they used on us in both gulf wars as well.
God,
Shias and sunnis DO agree on who the messenger is. They disagree on who was his rightful successor.
whats wrong with EVERYBODY
they r not hurting n e 1 but them selves and 4 the kids they r not doing it hard they r just touching the soft skin
we all believe in god
so let the shia do what they want and don’t blame the Jews the Americans the sunnies and shia we r all people of god
so there is no reason to criticize other religions
this type of stuff that u right can ruin some1s life
and i m a half sunnie and half shia imagine my lfe
786
i m also cant we get along meaning i wrote number 60
i m 13 years old and just to say hanan is right
upeople r ruining my life and showing me how crual u all r
and not going to say n e names but who ever says something bad about allah should be care full cuz allah is god allah is mighty allah has power and everything that happens to u is from allah so u better b respectful and not call allah a loser and just b nice please
and i know most kids will grow up to do this
once again i m a half shia and sunnie living in new york as a 13 year old
thanks to all u supporters
ameer, if you don’t like whats being said then don’t read it. It is our right to say what we want and you cannot simply tell us to shut up. we do not have to show respect to allah if WE DON’T BELIEVE in him. Just to make sure your aware, most of the people on this site are atheist, which means we don’t believe in any god.
i never said to shut up and i never said u have to show respect i said u should
just calm down u bully
u just killed a little of me inside i hope ur happy
“so u better b respectful and not call allah a loser”
*ahem*
“upeople r ruining my life and showing me how crual u all r”
In what way are we ruining your life? Id really like to know so we stop hurting your feelings.
oops ur right i might have said that and ur right i m sorry
u r ruining my life by being mean to each other
but if u don’t want to stop u don’t have to
and happy Saint Patrick’s Day to every 1
ISLAM IS NOT A RELIGION. WHICH RELIGION DEMANDS ITS FOLLOWERS TO BEAT THEMSELVES, LEAST OF ALL BABIES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! YOU PEOPLE ARE BEING LED THE WRONG WAY TO LIFE.HOW CAN YOU BEAT AND CHASTISE YOUR BODY????????????????????? YOUR BODY IS A TEMPLE,YOU MUST TREAT IT LIKE ONE
Why do all of you servants of God fight amongst each other.
each and every existing religion on earth has at least one thing in common, LOVE ALL AND SERVE ALL.As those who do not see God in all do not see God at all.I am a firm and mighty believer in Sikhism, and my faith will never diminish as my religion teaches me to respect all religions as my own.and as far as God goes,HE IS ONLY ONE>ONLY ONE. we call him by thousands of names like WAHEGURU,ALLAH,RAM etc, but he is only one.we, the whole human race are HIS creation and we are all brothers and sisters.if you cant accept that,i only say that you are being led the wrong way to life
WAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA WAHEGURU JI KI FATEH
hi every one
I just want to tell u that these people are
shiaa and muslims are sunni the are not muslim
muslims dont call any one for help except allah(my god in
English) while shiaa said ALI or Hussain They may come from Iran
MUSLIMS DONT DO THAT
The are lke animals?? what is the benefit of doing that??
They ARE JUST DOING WHAT THEIR IMAM SAID (LIKE KHOMAINY)
If u want to say anything or ask about Islam and shia plz email me on Kholoud25@hotmail.com
@Muslim girl:
Yeah sure… those are not true moslems. We heard it a million times over. Get a better excuse.
@Agony :–
!!!!a better excuse!!!
Do u ask yourelf why Islam is the fastest growing religeon in US
maybe u are not from this world (;
Do u know why there is always fighting in Iraq
or maybe because u dont know the real Islam I heard that
in UK they teach them Islam in a bad way (violent and torreism)
which is realy not…..
(Sorry for my bad English)
???????
@Muslim Girl
let’s see.. why they are the fastest growing?
1. having XXL families when most people have less than 4 children?(or was that Europe?)
2. guys like our friend Mohammed here quitting their life in Islamic countries to join the free folks?
3. people who leave islam are to be killed.
That sums it up for me.
UK? What are you talking about? I am a former moslem living in an islamic village in israel. So excuse me, but Islam is as “peaceful” as the old testament is.
Anyway, those people are proof that that “good people will do good things, bad people will do bad things, but to make good people do bad things you need religion”
I am a Shia muslim, and here is the true Fatwa on this issue by Khamenei:
Q1449: In commemorating the martyrdom of Imam Husayn (a.s.) on the tenth of Muharram, some people hit themselves with a machete, or walk bare-footed on fire. Such actions defame Shi‘ism and put it in a bad light, if not undermine it. They cause bodily and spiritual harms on these doing it as well. What is your opinion in this matter?
A: Any practice that causes bodily harm, or leads to defaming the faith, is haram. Accordingly, the believers have to steer clear of it. There is no doubt that many of these practices besmirch the image of Ahlul Bayt’s (a.s.) School of Thought which is the worst damage and loss.
Q1450: Is hitting oneself with swords halal if it is done in secret? Or is your fatwa in this regard universal?
A: In addition to the fact that it is not held in the common view as manifestations of mourning and grief and it has no precedent at the lifetime of the Imams (a.s.) and even after that and we have not received any tradition quoted from the Infallibles (a.s.) about any support for this act, be it privately or publicly, this practice would, at the present time, give others a bad image of our school of thought. Therefore, there is no way that it can be considered permissible.
by Ayatallah Khamenei
http://www.leader.ir
lol, poor stupid and ignorant people..
but at all, this is a fucking cool horror to see
Hmm – not a sight you would see on an average European city street. Am I the only person here who thinks that these blokes are wankers? WHY are they doing this? Have they some personality problems, or they just headcases? Not a religious concern, I think, just prats. Perhaps some couch time with their Shrinks, as I think they are called acros the Pond. There are some idiots in the world, aren’t there?
i m a totaly moderated shia. and all of u above said almost in deffer to above pic. but what u think u just make a cut to ur finger then u will see that u will feel pain for almost a week. then how it is possible that a person cutted himself and also other day he or goes on work too……… my friend it is possibel…. i also experienced it for only its realty to look what could happen. and i experienced that when i cutted myself saying YA HUSSAIN believe me i never felf even a piece of pain. and other day i also marched to my office with no pain at all…. even i stiched on my back….so its not fake my friends its real…. i as a SHIA wants u too…. not say it fake…. u do ur own and let us on ur own…. do practical ….. just cut a but ur finger ,,,u will see finger will pain even a month,,,, but i experience that i cant feel pain even the next day….. so think that What POWER lift all pain…. and how deep cuts could fill in days… JUST THINK with cool mind…………… SHIAS ARE NOT FAKE
“IN THE NAME OF ALLAH THE MOST MERCIFUL AND COMPASIONATE”
Salam alaykom dear brothers and sisters,
a few things must be made clear here… first of all do not make a judgement (such as shias are not muslims) unless you have researched it and have got sufficient evidence to support it. i am only a kid but i know this.
shias and sunnis are muslims and are united in believing in allah (swt), belief in muhammed ( saw) and the holy qu’ran as their holy book.
“IN THE NAME OF ALLAH THE MOST MERCIFUL AND COMPASIONATEâ€
oh people do you know who the shias are? shias are muslims who accept ali (as) as first caliph. the holy prophet made clear before his death that ali is his sucsessor. ” man kuntu mawlah fa aliyun mawlah” (who’s ever’s master i was, then ali is now their master). ever since the prophets departure, the shias have been opressed.
” verily allah wishes to drive away all evils from you o ahlul bayt (prophets house hold ali, fatima, hassan , hussayn(AS), and cleanse you thoroughly.” (surat al-ahzab, 33:33)
this verse proves that the ahlul bayt were great people. how dare someone abuse them? how can they say this to those who are loved by the prophet and allah (swt)? you accuse the shia of being bad people when all they are doing is following the prophet’s commands?
“oh you who believe, obey allah and obey the messenger, and those of you in authority (ulul amr)” (surat al-nisa 4:59)
“so submit patiently to thy lord’s command, and obey not of them any guilty one or disbeliever.” (al-dahr 76:24)
the same word for obey has been used in both verses therefore the ulul amr must not be a sinner or a disbeliever- he must be ma’sum. now from verse 33 of surat al ahzab, we know that the only person after the holy prophet (saw) who fitted the description of being infailable and deserving of being ‘ulul amr’ was imam ali (as).
if hussayn (as) had not made that sacrafice muslims would not be following the islam of the holy prophet (sas), but would be wrongly following yazid’s version. oh people the shia are the lovers of the prophet and his houshold. how can aby one hate muslims who follow the prophet?
research it and underastand the true tragedy of karbala and who the shia really are.
i’m not saying i agree with the shias doing this to themselves, but there is a certain extent of acceptable commeration. most of the time they just beat their chests which is up to them. it is their way of commeerating a tragedy. yet they suffer abuse from people who do not understand islam. who is anybody to say what a true muslim is? is a muslim not someone who believs in allah and his messenger? someone who enocurages good and prohibits evil. it says in the holy qu’ran:
“surely the most honourable of you with allah, is the one among you most careful of his duties (strongest piety)”
instead of argueing, muslims should unite as a ‘ummah’ and put their differences aside.
allah (swt) is the all powrefull, the almighty and the all knowing
he is the best of judges and he knows who the pous people ar (mu’mins).
may allah bless you all
allah is all knowingh. who is to say that shias are not better than us?
ali should have been the caliph first.
Man, ask god to frogive you. I like Ali as any other Caliph, but it doesn’t mean that he has to be the first, so many stories that our prophet put them in that order, and what is that all about, if he was first or last, does it make him less, sure enough not, and if you would ask him, he would tell you that he doesn’t even care, these true Muslims didn’t seek this life, they sought what is bette that this life, and you still talking who should be first.
They are all in heaven, do you think being Caliph is better than being in heaven, and do you thing if he should be first, would god allow that to make last.
You are fetna and distraction for Islam, I hope god forigves you.
Look at the pictures above, is it from Islam, that’s bull shit, God never said to hurt your self, you are freaking morons.
I’ve seen these pictures on tv, and I was so surprized how stupid these people.
Are you kidding me?
Yeah, Mohamed, they remind me of the idiot Christians who literally crucify themselves every Easter.
what is ur problem ppl, we r not arguin ova ho shuld be first, were saying this is how the sunni-shia split formed. we r muslims and u are nobody to say we r not, allah is alknowing and he judges whos a gd muslim or not. i know what they r doin is rong, but dont label all shias like that. they are rememberin a trajedy, and u owe imam hussain for his sacrifice, coz if he didnt do what he did u wuld be a slave to yazid…
how dare anyone say that the shias are not muslims! and ofcorse it makes a difference if ali ibna abi talib (as) was the first caliph or not. if he was first he wuld chose his succesor. remeba that thruout his whole life ali was a mu’min. unlike the other caliphs (who i also respect), who were a unbelievers at some point in their lives. ali (as) was the first convert to islam. when every1 mocked the holy prophet (saw), ali defended him. we all agree that whatever the prophet commands is an order of allah (swt). for example even in the holy qu’ran allah (swt) says ‘qul’ (say) to the holy prophet. the holy prophet chose ali to be his successor because he knew only he had the qualities to do so. after the prophet’s death it was vital that there would be a caliph who wuld be able to continue the prophets message. we know muhammed (pbuh) was the last messenger of allah, but after he died the calipha was stolen from ali. look at all the abuse shias suffer. do you even know what happened at karbala? do you not thank allah that you were born a muslim? if hussayn had not doen that you would be not following islam! you compare yazid with hussayn? yazid’s grandfather was ubu sufyan, an enemy of the holy prophet (saw). while on the other hand hussayn’s grandfather was tegh messenger of allah muhammed (saw). yazid was so evil he wuld kill and drink alcohol. yet you put him ahead of hussayn? this yazid had hussayn’s head cut of. he wanted revenge from the holy prophet because of the deaths of his family.
the holy prophet (pbuh) said: hussayno mini wa ana minal hussayn’ (hussayn is of me and i am of hussayn)
many stories highlight the prophet’s love for hussayn.
even in iraq now, the shia are being terrorized and are having their heads cut of by terrorists. you call that islam? you call that justice? you compain when some shias hurt themselves but its fine for terrorists to terrorise them?
may allah forgive us all
thats only some shias. others donate blood which is much better. hussayn didnt say to do this. its ppl doing it out of their own will. us muslms shuld concerntrate about unting ourselves. not abusing each other. just because SOME shias do this you think all do? u think just becasue they do that they r not muslims? what about prayer don’t they pray? or fast? or do good deeds? only allah is the all knowing. first of all correct ur mistakes then tell others. you can’t say ur perfect and that ur a gr8 person who is defintly gonna enter heaven. thats for allah to decide. read books, research different veiwpoints. don’t just rely on what ur parents tell u or what ppl of ur faith say. imagine u were born into a different faith. wuld u still say that it was correct? thinl.. allah has given us brains to use..
Hold on little but, I didn’t say you are not a Muslims. Who ever said the shehada is a Mulim, and I’m not judging anybody.
Do you think Ali was bothered for not being the caliph, did you think he care, do you think he was looking forward to it. Don’t you believe in destiny? Do you think what happen out of God control?
That were my questions, you said it’s not fair, Did Ali( karam Allah Wajhah) need you to defend him. He is better than me and you, and if he was that mad, I think he would show it.
I said before I’m against killing against who ever, it doesn’t even have to be a Muslim, I don’t like or support killing.
I don’t compare amybody to anybody, only God know who is better than who, so you are the one who judging people, answer my questions and you will see I’m right.
man do you know what a huge difference it wuld have been if ali was the caliph first! he deserves it and ofcourse he cared, the islamic ummah had to be controlled and taught the prophets version of islam, not YAZIDS!
The version of Islam would make you hit yourself and got your body with blood, Islam has no version, you want to make a versions of it, fear god.
You didn’t answer my questions yet, do you think God didn’t destine that Abu Baker to be The first and Ali to be the fourth.
I don’t what you argue about, is it that what you care about if Ali first or last.
What version os Islam you talk about, your version, and if you think that was a differnet version of Islam was applied in the other Calip’s era, do you think Ali would stay silent, don’t do any thing about it. Ali was ready to fight whoever for Islam, do you think he would see wrong things happen and he would let it go. You should know Ali better.
I like Ali may be even more than you, but I know how Ali was, and how simple he is, he wouldn’t care about being Caliph.
The other question I would like some shit to answer, Abu Baker was reach before Islma, how much money did he has when he died? the same about Omar and Othman and Ali. Being caliph was a prevliage, it was a huge responsibility in front of God.
“IN THE NAME OF ALLAH, THE MOST MERCIFUL AND COMPASIONATE”
Salam alaykom dear brothers and sisters,
to answer brother muhammed’s questions….
“verily your gaurdian (wali) is Allah and his messenger (muhammed) and those who believe and establish the prayer, and give charity (alms) while they are (in ruku) bowing down.” (surat al-maisah, 5:55)
to begin with, hussayn (as) martydom was vital and we all know that, sunni or shia. when hussayn (as) made the sacrafice, he did it to show us aYazid’s ersion of islam was corrupt and is not the true islam that the prophet put into practice. He did NOT ask anyone to beat themselves. the trajedy is one that must always be remembered. on Ashura of Muharram, it is a day were the Holy prophet (saw) was slaghted unmercifuly by the hypocrites by the order or Yazid (may allah’s cursings be upon him). yet some people have the courage to call Yazid a mawli and accept him as a mu’min!
YOU ARE TELLUNG ME IT DOESN’T MATTER WHO WAS THE CALIPH FIRST? ofcourse it does…
The holy prophet made it clear at Ghadeer Khum, that Ali was to succeed after him by the orders of Allah (swt).
“man kuntu mawlah fa aliyun mawlah…” (who’s ever’s master i was then ali is his/her master…)
this is evidence that we not only obtain from the shia books but also from the sunni book of Bukhari! (just incase someone would like to call it a lie.)
at ghadeer khum when the annoncement was made, the following verse was sent down:
“o messenger! deliver what has been revealed to you from your lord; and if you do not do it, then you have not delivered his message, and Allah will protect you from the people ; surely Allah will not guide the unbelieveing people” (surat al-maidah, 5:67). it is vital that ali (as) was to be the caliph because only he had the sufficient qualities to do so and contol the islamic ummah like the prophet. he was a believer all his life, the first male to accept islam, more loyal to the holy prophet than any other…
brother muhammed, you say that ali didn’t care? after the prophet (pbuh)’s death, while ali (as) was arranging the funeral a group of people were planning to steal the calipha and go against the holy prophet (pbuh)’s word. it is obvious who these people were…
these people stole the calipha from ali (as) by force. threatning him and his family. just to remind you his family being the family of the messenger of allah (muhammed). as a result of this force, fatima (as) the holy prophet’s beloved daughter was killed.
ali (as) was a just man and deserved the calipha more than them. the other caliphs put their relatives and freinds in power across the islamic empire. they acted unjustly with the treasury given unfair amounts.
when ali (as) finally became the caliph, his justice was shown as he acted fairly and controlled the ummah in the fair and justical way the holy prophet (as) had. he was so justical that some of his own followers (the khawarij)turned against him because he was not treating them as the previous caliphs were.
you talk about destiny? allah (swt) has not pre planned our destiny, other wise our life would be useless because we would have no choice to do good or bad. therefore, freewill exists and we have the option to control our actions. allah (swt) is the allknowing and knows our future, but has given us freewill to decide. otherwise on the day of judgement we could just tell our lord allah (swt) that we had no choice but to do bad. therefore allah (swt) knew that the calipha would be stolen from ali (as) and even the holy prophet and ali (as) knew. however, this is part of life, to see who would stick by the holy prophet (saw’s word and who would go against it.
allah (swt) meant this to happen as part of life. if everything was perfect, there would be no need for life because we would all be true muslims who never sin and there would be no test.
you say you like ali more than me? i am no one to say you don’t, but why don’t you accept him as the rightfull calif even with the holy prophet (saw)’s command?
understand the similarities between shias and sunnis…
we are closer to each other thatn anyone may think. we are united in tawheed, accepting muhammed as the final messenger of allah (swt, and the holy quran as being our holy book. the above images represent SOME shias. they do it to commerate hussayns sacrifice. what they are doing is not killing them, they are doing what they can handle. instead they could be donating that blood. but its up to them, just like its up to you to make choices in life such as following islam as a religion.
if you understood the love the holy prophet (saw) had for hussayn, and how hussayn had been salghtered then mabye you would understand how opressed us
muslims are as a ummah.
abu bakr, umar and uthman did not deserve to be caliphs nor were they chosen by the holy prophet (saw), they elected themselves and went against the holy prophet’s command, that is the point i am making. ali (as) should have had control so that he may select his successor. however, the ummayids were formed and were against ali (as) and his followers (shias). they made it obligitory (wajib) to curse ali (as) in the athaan!!!!!!!
can you believe these people? not only do they steal the calipha, but they curse the shais , who were just following allah (swt)’s commands?
lets compare my dear freind….
the grandfather of Yazid was ubu sufyan who was an enemy of the holy prophet (as)…
the grandfather of hussayn (as) was the holy prophet (saww) himself…
the people would complain and say how this man muawiya would lead the salah while he was drunk! these ummayids were no muslims! they drank alcohol gambled killed and did all sorts of sins, yet still they are put ahead of the hlulbayt (as) (prophet’s houshold). did i not mention ayat al-tathir in my previous entry ( 33:33), these people were clean of sins… if they were in power they would be justical… however whenever they tried they would be tortured or killed by the ummayids (and later the abbasids as well).
my dear brother, i hope this answers your questions… inshala you will understand why us shias remember the tragedy of hussayn (as) and why we commerate his martydom… most shias only beat themselves to an acceptable level, only some do this blood thing and i for one am against it. but don’t think all shia are like this…
may allah bless you all…
I appreciate taking the time answring my questions.
You mentioned that why don’t I accept that Ali was the rightful Caliph, I accept that Ali was a caliph and he one of the best and close friend for our prophet.
The argument that our prophet recommend it that Ali is the succesor is fault, our prophet wouldn’ do such a thing, he wants Muslims to decide their own fate.
The other thing if Ali knew that what our prophet dicided that Ali should be the Caliph, do you think the threatning would work with Ali, Ali was the most brave man Islam know, and I can tell you stories about his courage, and if you really know Ali, Ali would do anything to get our prophet order done, and you know that better than me.
You are talking about Ali like he is helpless, Ali was a true believer, he wouldn’t hestiate a second to sacrify his life for Muhammed’s order.
We feel bad for Hussein like we feel bad for Omar and Othman, we don’t make differnce between any of the sahaba, should we blame our self for Omar death or Othman or Ali or Huessin, it’s god will for them to die this way, why are you blaming yourself, that sanity.
I’m sorry that i’m little bit harsh, but the way you talk about Ali, it shows that you know little about him.
There is no way that they cursed Ali in Atahn, that’s bull-shit, and why Sunni like Ali now, what the differnece, why the Sunni now shows Ali as a the Islam hero? Tell what the differnce?
To be frank these are not fake i have witnessed these “tradition” many times as a muslim from shiate sect.
but to also these are condisered by the majority of shi’ate schollars as an unacceptable and self suffering acts.
these acts are not rituals but traditions of the common people “anyone in the society” expressing there grieve for the Heroic death of Hussein grandson of the profet Muhammad
Shi’ate Schollars prohibeted them because its obvious that the are harming the image of islam world wide and special the shiate sect. THEY ARE TRADITIONS NOT RELATED TO ISLAM IN ANYWAY. so now we cant consider that the KKK clan’s rituals or any sect group’s riyual in the west is a act of christianity.
Please try to see these pix from the right perspective before making any judgemnt on any one.
Please p[lease please,, try to know more about Hussien and his revolution for the cause of human rights that after 1000 year the westren world is advocating for , while we already has embraced this concept 1000 year ago
every one has seen this pics must know that
shiist>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
not muslims
not muslims
not muslims
not muslims
not muslims
yes u r right
I wonder what happens if we get the shiist here… my take would be “sunnies >>>> not muslims” but who am i to decide who gets the right to call himself a moslem?
I’ll just laugh my ass off when Zeus throws you both into hell at the end
“IN THE NAME OF ALLAH, THE MOST BENIFEFICENT”
Salam alaykom dera brothers and sisters,
before i start i would like to make it clear to ‘another muslem’ (no 95 of this pg) that us shias are muslims and that he or she is nobody to tell us we are not. who ever accepts allah as the only God, the most powerful who has no father or son, accepts muhammed as his prophet and his last messenger, the holy qu’ran as their holy book (hence says the shahadah) IS A MUSLIM!
also i would like to apologise for this late reply brother muhammed, i was busy with exams.
the event of GHADIR KHUM is a fact. you can not deny what not only is written in our hadith books (shia) but also the sunni hadith books. the event is accepted by both schools of thought. however, the differnec is that sunnis say that the holy prophet called ali as the caliph of his houshold and not the moslem ummah, which makes no sense seeing how the prophet said ‘ man kuntu mawlah fa aliyun mawlah’ (whos evers master i was then ALI IS HIS MASTER)
the second point, you say that ali would have used force? ali is a person who defends islam. if he used force that would only cause conflict. ali, unlike the other ‘caliphs’, was a man of patience and strenth both mentally and physically. they were not kufar for his to do that. never once did ali (as) raise a sword first aginst an enemy.
i am not talking about ali as helpless, neither am i trying to convert you into a shia muslim, my only aim is to tell you what happened. allah (swt) has given you a brain to make judgements. the event took place, tell me why you do not accept it? is the word of umar, ubu bakr and uthman stronger than the word of muhammed (saw)?
as you know muhammed’s (saw) actions are governed by allah (swt) order. even in the holy qu’ran allah orders the prophet by saying ‘qul’ (say).
muhammed made it clear that ali was to succeed, how could a man like muhammed (saw) leave the islamic ummah unguided?
the other caliphs do not have the qualities or the ability to control the ummah the way the prophet did. at one point in their lives they were kufar. after converting to islam, it does not mean that they were perfect.
muhammed chose ali by the order of god, and the order of god is not wrong.
for your info, yazid hated ali (as). he wanted revenge . what kind of person would put yazid ahead of hussyn. hussain representing justice and the true islam of the holy prophet, while this guy yazid, was a muslim by name but not by nature. yazid hated ali and his shia. you tell me yazi should HAVE BEEN the successor rather than hassan (as) alis son??
may allah bless you all….
@muslim boy,
“how could a man like muhammed (saw) leave the islamic ummah unguided?”
Just beautiful… I have been asking myself this question myself for sometime… guess the shieities have the solution… at least it’s more logical.
One question though: is it true that you believe that the angel gabriel gave the quran to mohammed by mistake when it was intended to be for ali?(this story is common by the sunnies over here, was never able to verify it)
Our meant to leave it this way, to show people that you can’t inherit authiority.
He wanted to leave this issues for people judgment.
Say who should be the Caliph, it’s waste of time to debate.
Our prophet promised the Omar and Abu Baker and Ottman with heaven, so how they are that bad like Shitt saying.
Ali will never use force, but he is not afraid to express it and try to show the Muslims the right way, and based on some Shitt said, that he threaten his family. That doesn’t make sense as I said before, Ali was the bravest Muslim ever exist, he wouldn’t scared about his family when it comes to God will.
“IN THE NAME OF ALLAH, THE MOST MERCIFUL AND COMPASIONATE”
Salam alaykom dear brothers and sisters,
to answer ur question ‘agony’…
no, us shias do not believe in what you say, THAT IS WRONG.
we believe the quran was sent down to MUHAMMED intentionally just like our sunni brothers. however, we believ that ali (as) was the rightful caliph as only he had the sufficient qualities to do so.
is’nt it ironic how ali (as) was a pious person all his life and was the first to embrace islam and defend the holy prophet? while if you contrast that to the other so called ‘caliphs’, the were kufars at one point in their lives and later converted to islam.
brother muhammed…
at the moment you seem to be missing the point and avoiding my questions…
do you not accept that ali (AS) was chosen (not recommended), by the holy prophet (saw) at ghadir khum? this is a FACT! even you sunnis accept it, it is in your books as well as ours. it is a hadith.
the holy prophet was on his farewell pilgrimige when he stopped thousands of the muslim followers in the scorching heat of the sun. he raised ali’s (as) hand and made it clear. how much times do i need to repeat my self : ‘MAN KUNTU MAWLAH, FA ALIYUN MAWLAH” (whos ever’s master I was then ALI is now also to him/her a master!!!!!!!!!)
and for your information, fatima (as), the holy prophet’s daughter , was martyred. and don’t try and twist the truth! the people who elected themselves and chose to go against muhammeds will, went up to her house in order to force ali (as) to give up the caliphat. the killed her by crushing her behind the door and killed her unborn baby (muhsin).
these people were meant to be good muslims? you put them befre ali (as)? for god’s sake, as soon as the prophet (saw)died, they went aginst him, stole the clipha, killed fatima???? and on top of that they were not just!
they put their family members in high positions across the islamic empire. as a result mu’awia broke the peace treaty between him and hassan (as), for that reason, hussayn (as) was slaughtered and martyred on the 10th of muharam.
and what a surprise, that SOME OF the sunni decide to fast on that day, i’ll tell you why because to celebrate yazids victory!!!!
answer this question : was yazid a good man?
yet some ppl put him ahead of the ahlulbayt (as).
the ahlul bayt (prophets houshold: muhammed, ali, fatima, hassan, hussayn, and all the imams), are free of sin. they are mentioned in the quran of being pure (refer to my previous entry)…..
may allah bless u…