Today is February 9, 2006 and you know what that means. It’s time to commemorate the martyrdom of Husayn ibn Ali, the grandson of Muhammad at the Battle of Karbala in the year 61 AH (AD 680). This tradition is better known as Ashura and is very popular amongst Shia Muslims. Many choose to spend the day performing mourning rituals or passion plays re-enacting the martyrdom. While most people march through the streets beating their chest, others emulate the suffering of Husayn by flagellating themselves with chains or cutting their foreheads until blood streams from their bodies.
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But these are good because buy these kind of praying the universe will get clean of them.we need Edvard Witten ,Uzeyir Hajibeyov(Great Azerbaijan composer),new Einsteins ,…if Uzeyir will go to hell and Mohammad to heaven,i prefer to go to hell.at least i can listen to his great symphonies,i can talk to Einestein. i can attend in witten’s class in the middle of fires.
this is an answer to farhad for his comments on the holy prophet and his holy progeny , 1st of all woe to u for being ashamed of urself as a muslim!!!! being blessed to live in the holy city of iran yet u dont realise how blessed you are! and then again how dare you beignborn as a muslim u speak so disrespectfully about theholy prophet imam ali and lady fatimah??? there has to be something wrong with you mentallyyy !!! wake up before its too late follow teh right creed before you regret in the grave wehre there will be no return !!as far as the day of asshura is concerened every muslim and non muslim is very well aware of the tragedy faced by the holy families…its very sad to see that you are strongly against it. very true when it comes to extremist as i call them who are ignorant and unaware of the actual fact behind commamorating the day of ashura, but for these few illiterate and ignorant people you have no rights to blame the whole shia world!! would you accept to be called a terrorist as the world terms every muslim now???? open your eyes wider before its too late .. to 1 and every muslim who is aware and pretending to be unaware of his/her own faith …wake up before u r woken up!!!
Dear all
This is an act done by some ignorant Shia’s. As per the verdicts of the Shia religous leaders, and specifically the Supreme Leader Ayatullah Khamenei, this act is totally prohibited for 3 reasons, 1> it is against human innate nature and logic 2> it was not way the children and infallible progeny of Hussain ibn Ali mourned on him 3> it makes a mockery of Islam.
In every religion and society there are people who break laws. There are theives , rapists, drunkards who give a bad name to a society where these acts are prohibited by laws. Hence not following the laws and verdicts does not mean the system or the ideology is wrong, it is a problem with the people who are not understand and applying. God willing these things will soon be recitifed and Islam will be presented to the world very soon in its purified form which has already started to happen after the Islamic Revolution in Iran in 1979 and the stand of Hizbullah.
Imran
Imran Azmi, a couple of points about your post:
1. You said that there is prohibition by Islam of this because, for one reason,
However, if that is the case, why not just let nature and logic suffice? Why is religion edict even necessary to conclude that cutting one’s forehead is a bad idea? (hint: it isn’t necessary, and you have pretty much said so without being willing to go the distance to the conclusion).
2. In what you also said,
that is easily accepted, but reasonable laws and verdicts can be arrived at without Islam (or any other religion). The Islamic ideology is easily shown to be invalid for other reasons, such as its self-contradictions and the all-too-human weaknesses of its (man-made) god.
So why not just abandon the religion? Reason is sufficient in assessing the present case re Ashura bloodletting.
Shias are true followers of the Prophets sunnat ie true muslims
Plz help me. evidence from modern cosmology and evolutionary biology show no evidence of god. so why should i believe that 1400 years ago a mentalist named Moahhamad with limited mind discovered god and became his prophet.or where should i know from that what he said is true. the only thing that we have as a judge is humanity and concise. so if anyone doesnt bother anyone else and doesnt discriminate anyones ennoblement,so why does he/she requires religion. of course my definition is not complete,but is the best that we have for now.
one more question for specially shia muslim. what exactly do u mean by holy?
what is holy?
thank u for guiding me. if you define holy i promise to be muslim again and cut my head in ashura and maybe everyday.
Farhad from Tabriz
All the rhetoric is just rhetoric. What is the case for a religion whose prophet (peace be upon Him- i mean no disrespect to you) murdered and justifies the willing murder of Jews? It is evident from history that Islam came into being because one tribe (the tribe of Ishmael) was dishonored by another tribe (tribe of Isaac). I think God exists beyond the ridiculous machinations of weak, pathetic human beings who are seduced by the devil- seduced into thinking they are right and others are wrong. God’s intent is for everyone to live in peace and harmony, but the Shaitan corrupted from the beginning.
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this is not islam.
No, this looks and smells precisely like Islam actually!
what they are doing nowhere exists in islam. quran says giving pain to yourself is haram.
362 wins “No True Scotsman Fallacy” award of the day. Congrats, and try using the google to learn why. Or start here
http://rationalwiki.com/wiki/No_True_Scotsman
Plenty of pain exists in the quran, especially that supposedly brought by unbelievers on themselves. Allah is just another man-made god-asshole, nothing more.
Religion is ridiculous.
this is not islam.
364 echoes 362 and 360 and maybe earlier posts, and it has the same problem that Korgan pointed out in 363.
Asif Zardari, you are pretty much making the No True Scotsman Fallacy. Korgan’s link in 363 is an OK explanation. Or, you need to explain why your read of the Quran is right and why these bloodied folks and others have it wrong.
who says this is islam or religion?
if this is what the world (and all you) think of islam then i am really sorry. i converted to islam a few years ago and i mourn ashura. though it does NOT involve cutting or ridiculously injuring myself or an inncent child. those who choose to act such violently know nothing about islam.
I call No True Scotsman fallacy on 367.
english girl, go read the link in Korgan’s post 363.
Also, for a separate point, see my comments here
http://religiousfreaks.com/?p=558
Basically, as in my other post in that link, if the supposed word of god can be so readily misinterpreted as in the different takes we see in this thread on ashura, then the word of god is flawed and isn’t from a perfect being. In other words, Islam (and the many-flawed book that its flock keeps referencing) is a complete farce.
dear netyahoo
I am afraid that you do not make any sense. the misinterpretation of God’s word does not show that God has flaws or is not perfect.
you can tell me somthing perfectly correct and flawless and i can turn it around and misinterpret it. but this only shows that i have not understood you correctly not that you are wrong.
i am sorry but this is going to be my last comment as i am very busy with work. i am not trying to convince you or anybody to become a muslim or that islam is the best religion and everyone should embrace it. i just wanted to lessen the stearotype. i respect your views (whatecer they may be) so i only ask for the same.
best wishes
english girl,
The reality is that you are giving up not because you are busy but because you don’t have an argument, nor evidence, nor proof for your sky fairy. It was explained to you that your post contained a very basic common fallacy, along with other nonsense, and you could not rebut that. So, be gone and take your evil religion with you.
lmao. Im sorry netyahoo but english girl crushed your argument. I dont even know why you and all the others care so much?? If they wanna be muslims and do whatever let them. If you dont want to do it then dont. Stop trying to convince them man. Lol
Imagine Hamish McDonald, a Scotsman, sitting down with his Glasgow Morning Herald and seeing an article about how the “Brighton Sex Maniac Strikes Again.”
Hamish is shocked and declares that “No Scotsman would do such a thing.”
The next day he sits down to read his Glasgow Morning Herald again and this time finds an article about an Aberdeen man whose brutal actions make the Brighton sex maniac seem almost gentlemanly.
This fact shows that Hamish was wrong in his opinion but is he going to admit this? Not likely.
This time he says, “No true Scotsman would do such a thing.”
—Antony Flew, Thinking About Thinking (1975)
“cool dude”, you are anything but what you want to think you are.
english girl’s argument was utterly and totally crushed by me because I pointed out that it contained a basic fallacy, No True Scotsman. Jagannath then illustrated the fallacy. There is no possible rebuttal, and the argument was lost by english girl.
Further to what I said, you and other stupid religious folk seem to not understand that the requirements on a god, for it to have the claimed features, are utterly stringent. Think that through before you post again. This is also related to why the koran, that shitty book of evil, is not a perfect work evn though stupid muslim freaks often try to claim that it is.
Your stupidity has been revealed and english girl lost the argument, asshole.
Why do you people take certain sensational pictures and always post them as a generalized representation of the muslim world. I just went to a procession for Ashura in Downtown Toronto. No one was cutting themselves no one was bleeding. Not even 5% of the shia world does the above practices and they are condemned by the Shia scholars.
Hussain (as) was a pious and galiant leader of the believers who stood for a great cause: Fighting evil through self sacrifice and never bowing down to anyone but God. We weep on the savage way him and his family and other companions were killed.
Let us mourn in peace brother.
You are saying that because it is just a small group doing something, we should just let them? What if there would be a small group of people cutting noses from random people in your neighbourhood? Would you say, there is only few nosecutters, we should let them continue as most people disagree with their practise anyway.
Why do religious people always want to protect all aspects of religion, even those aspects they disagree and are ashamed of?
Wrong cannot be right even if it falls under the banner of faith.
I know that the real shia believes is not like these photos showed here. What that you see here, in fact is miscellaneous in shia religion, but some ignorant people, do this against real shia believes.
I know that in Iran, these actions are banned by religious leaders, government and police.
Re 376, specifically your bit about “the real shia”, I call you on the No True Scotsman fallacy for that line. Have a read here:
http://www.logicalfallacies.info/presumption/no-true-scotsman/
And yeah, the Iranian government bans a lot of actions, regardless of whether those actions are right or wrong – any protest against it included. Good thing that dunderhead Ahmadinejad probably won’t last much longer as president.
I was on the net when I saw that, it just mad me wanna throw up !!!
They call that a religious day?!
All we can see when we look at this photograph is blood and unconscious people.
Look at the woman, her son is bleeding and she is smiling !
All those people are not good religious, and what they practise is not even written somewhere.
They are just crazy and not humain.
melissa, your post got off to a good start, but “good religious” is a contradiction in terms.
and yeah, being written in a book is all it takes to have a religion that idiots will believe in, apparently.
Yeah, that was a cheap thrill but still valid and poignant.
let them dead!!is good if they dead,iam happy if they dead.they are sattan in this world
yeah, I wouldn’t wanna be sattan myself. Especially if the person that sattan me was heavy.
this so crazy, wat the **** they doin cuttin them selves, thinkin bout it ouch.!!!!!!!!!!
WHAT THE FUCK!!!!!!!!1 THIS IS FUCKIN STUPID AS HELL!!!!!!!!
i am she3a i dont appricate what u guys have posted. every drop of blood that comes out of us is the love for our imams. you sunni people r the most discusting people ever i have allot of hate for u all. we will see who will be standing on the doors of heven iza ma bit wali l imam ali u will never see heaven! la3antallah 3a omar ibin saad! everyland is karabalaa and everyday is ashoura. and this blood and the tears we shed this is all nothing we should do more and more to get u all mad. every eye that crys for hussein and a7le l byt will get each tear back on the day of judgment i want to see what la3antallah 3a omar w mo3waya will give u inreturn those dirty nonfollowers la3tallah 3a 3aysha w hind allah yi7ro2kon kilkon be aberkon
she4a is suny 3 and 1. Now appricate with use 2.
posted
they must be out of their mind. Islam never told to their people to hurt each other or even themselves. May Allah forgive what they did………
They must be following their religion. That’s exactly what Islam tells them to do: violence to everyone, but to themselves and their closest kin the most.
May their non-existent allah continue to do nothing at all. May they lose their horrid religion.
There is nothing wrong with the rituals of Ashura, u r all wrong to attack it. Our children are brave and the most strongest of all, they are not afraid
There is much wrong with the rituals of Ashura, They are all wrong and only stupid people are dumdum enough to do them. Mohammed loves children most strongest of all. He liked to do them, the younger the better like his 9 year old wife.
Goose osama today. Give it to him behind as he like it. Goosegoosegoose he love it.
May God bless Muhammad, peace be upon him and his grandsons Hassan and Husayn.
Everyday is Ashura and every place is Karbala
Peace be upon you Husayn, O King of martyrs
There is much wrong with the rituals of Ashura, They are all wrong and only stupid people are dumdum enough to do them. Mohammed loves children most strongest of all. He liked to do them, the younger the better like his 9 year old wife.
Goose osama today. Give it to him behind as he like it. Goosegoosegoose he love it.
TRUE SAVAGES!
Hooo shite…
Thoughtful and interesting, thank you. I was brought up in manilla but moved to america at such a young age I barely remember anything apart from the delicious food. I finally found some authentic Filipino recipes if you want to have a look, I thought I’d share it with you!
Catholics should remain mum. And be ashamed.
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ofcoure these photos do not tell us truth obout islam
thse people are from small group of muslims that do not know real islam.
muslims are not allowed to hurt themselves or anybody because all is Gift of God
ashura is an important day for muslims to think
about Human values and Commemoration imam
hossein(Grandson of Prophet Muhammad) who is very very honest,brave and kind
man that gave all things of him life and himself for
Resuscitating right way him enemies killed
even him baby who was only 6 month
398 is the No True Scotsman Fallacy. Google it and learn.
SHAME on them that show these kind of picture form WRONG ISLAM , this is just a HORRID JOKE about islam because all adult person can find the real islam easily.