Rolando del Campo made a promise to Jesus 11 years ago. If Jesus would deliver their child safely from a tough delivery, he would crucify himself every Good Friday for 15 years! Rolando is on number 12 and going strong.
I find this absolutely amusing because I really believe that this freak thinks Jesus played a part in his childs safe delivery. Nevermind the thousands of children that die everyday… Rolando’s is special. Jesus personally wanted his child to survive for some special cause I’m sure. Maybe Jesus gets off on watching him crucify himself every year.
Now I know that some of my Christian readers believe that Jesus has the power to help people. What I would like to know is why does he help a few and let millions of others die? Do you truly believe that God plays a role in who lives and who dies? I’m truly interested in hearing your thoughts so please contribute them.
Related posts:
- It’s Good Friday. Now Go Crucify Yourself!
- Viva Las Vegas
- Jesus Christ Supercop 2
- Jesus Christ Supercop 3
- It’s Time To Man Up You Girly Christian Men!
April 12th, 2006 at 10:11 am
What a moron.
My belief is that God, being all-powerful and whatnot, can choose to play a role in whatever he damn well pleases to play a role.
The tone of your last question seems to indicate that you find it surprising that christians might believe something like this. But, to me, it doesn’t seem like much of a leap for someone who already believes in an invisible old man living in the sky. ;-)
Also, don’t think for a second that we christians haven’t heard the “why would God save this person and let all these other people/children/puppies/children with puppies die” question before. I have heard it about a billion times. And if you’re honestly curious about it, that’s fine, but if, like is usually the case in my experience, you’re asking smugly, thinking that we’ve never thought of anything like it ourselves and that you’re going to make our stupid little heads explode, then I’m annoyed. Either way, you probably won’t get an answer you’re satisfied with from me, because I honestly don’t know why this person would be killed in a tsunami but that person wouldn’t, or why this mother was able to get through a difficult pregnancy and that mother wasn’t. It’s something I plan on asking God when I get the chance.
April 12th, 2006 at 2:33 pm
Tut tut tut… Let’s not deny the power of ritual in any human culture. Call it a quick-and-dirty method for drawing causal lines where there’s no other easy way to do it. Humans need those lines– we need to see causality everywhere or we go crazy. It’s fine as long as people don’t take it too seriously.
Now, once people really start *believing* these things, it gets dicey. Trouble is, with Catholics it’s almost impossible to tell how much they believe the stuff they’re saying. They’ve got ritual down to an amazing craft. Methinks there are quite a many priests that recognize that most of what they do is purely ceremonial. That’s alright, though. There’s an allure in forcing yourself to believe something ridiculous. It helps with social cohesion and mental well being for a lot of people. As long as he doesn’t try to scientifically prove that Jesus saved his kid, and as long as he doesn’t try to convince me of it– well, hooray for him.
April 13th, 2006 at 11:46 am
I myself am a believer in Christ. It’s good to see Rolando living true to his word as that seems to be a rarity in this world nowadays and I support him.
Anyone who is a believer does know that happiness is not gaurantee in this life, it is in the next. And since our life on earth is not even a scratch in the surface compare to eternity, that’s more than fine by me.
April 15th, 2006 at 2:02 am
Some of my fellow countrymen here in the Philippines not only crucify theirselves, but they also whip and carry a cross along a long path just as Christ did. This is a yearly tradition called the Passion of the Christ or “pasyon” which happens during the Holy Week. The idea here is to reenact Christ’s suffering and death. For them, it is a way of confessing and redeeming their sins.
April 16th, 2006 at 2:40 pm
Just when you think people can’t get any more stupid by actually worshipping their common imaginary friend named Jesus/God/GeeWhiz/Murphy The Flying Camel … now you see them further extending their stupidity by pointing themselves out as important individuals under God’s eye, “god helped deliver MY son, yours probably just came out naturally but MINE HAD THE MIRACULOUS HAND OF JESUS INVOLVED… because i get all arrogant when i think about it”, when are humans gonna stop thinking they’re THAT special?
If someone thinks there’s a god out there, that looks like us, then that someone is suffering from what I like to call “Grandeur Bullshitfulness”. But no.. hey, humans r da kewlezt n bestzt so Jesus MUST exist, and furthermore, MUST look like us. Only we matter, not Earth, not the flora or fauna, just us, because hey, we like to think so. God bless us all!
April 19th, 2006 at 9:02 am
Hi there. This is my first visit (I saw your sig on Slashdot) and I like what I see!
Regarding the story… maybe he’ll get some kind of blood poisoning one day to teach him a lesson. A pus-filled wound can do wonders on the perspective on reality!
April 27th, 2006 at 7:02 pm
gasmonso - If you’re genuinely curious, I suppose that warrants a genuine answer. Let’s look at your question in a broader sense, and perhaps ask “why does anything happen?” After that, we can see how the specific choice of who lives and who dies applies to that.
Christians assume a lot of things about the nature of God, one of which is that He knows anything and everything. God possesses the ultimate, final knowledge; from His knowledge, all of his other “power” is derived — the power to control everything, the power to be everywhere at once (not because He really is everywhere at once, but because He knows what is happening everywhere at once). He possesses this knowledge because, again we assume, He (indirectly, as we will see later) created everything with some specific purpose in mind, and everything that has ever occurred has come about as part of the process of bringing about that purpose. Any Christian who knows what s/he is talking about will tell you that no one has any idea what that purpose is, and I believe that if we were told we probably could not comprehend it — it would either be too complex or too simple for the human mind to rationalize.
So how does this all play out? God (regardless of whomever or whatever God is) began the initial process of creation and set the stage for all of time to begin. How far back this goes is a disputed matter within the Christian faith; some say it was 5,000 years, some (like me) say it was the Big Bang, some may say that it has been occurring for some abstract infinite amount of time. The truth is that we don’t have the faintest idea about when this occurred, or how, or why, or anything of that sort; that’s why it’s faith, and I agree that it’s somewhat disturbing to lack that important information. In any case, God set the stage for everything with his initial creation, to whatever degree things were created, and He set things up so everything is one giant domino effect that will eventually have some result that pleases Him and that, we hope, is ultimately favorable.
Think of it as one gigantic chemical reaction, like the one by which glucose is converted to energy by your cells. The net equation is (C6H12O6 + 6O2 → 6CO2 + 6H2O + Energy), but there are literally hundreds of steps that occur between the initial reactions between glucose and oxygen and the end result of energy, water and carbon dioxide. Think of a human being, then, as a single electron that is part of this whole cycle. Many atoms and ions are brought into the different reactions, many are cast off when they have fulfilled their roles. We see the one or two reactions that take place before our roles are fulfilled and we are cast out of the grand reaction. God sees not only the overall reaction of (C6H12O6 + 6O2 → 6CO2 + 6H2O + Energy), but also each of the smaller reactions that are part of the larger one. He not only placed the glucose and oxygen in such circumstances that they can react, but also provides each of the surrounding components needed to create the smaller reactions that are part of the larger one. Finally, He supplied the energy to cause that initial reaction (we can think of this as the Big Bang), watched as the smaller reactions carried themselves out (the formation of the stars, evolution, the rise of humanity, even the lives and deaths of individuals), and now waits for the time when the reaction will be complete and his purpose will be accomplished.
Note that this is my view of how it works. There are a lot of traditional Christians who will say that God plays an active part in everything every day, and I think it’s utter rubbish. If He was to do that, there would be little scientific evidence for anything in terms of self-sustainability. Granted, there are a lot of things we can’t explain: everything from dark matter to our own sentience. That doesn’t mean that it’s some magical force of God directly intervening in our lives, but that we either don’t have the instruments to measure those things or the capacity to understand them. Note that I’ve always believed that we cannot ever understand anything more complex than ourselves — so don’t take my word for any of this as some kind of definitive answer to everything. My understanding of god is rudimentary and simplistic, because the order of everything in the universe is beyond my capacity of comprehension. I have no hope of understanding the specifics, even though I attempt to do so to the extent that I am able.
So how does this grander scheme apply to your question? It tells us that everything happens for some purpose — God wills that some people live and that some people die, that sickness comes and sickness goes, because all of those things are a small part of a master plan that has been playing out for literally hundreds of billions of years. One’s prayers are ultimately futile – one prays because that is the role God has given the prayer. Granted, the praying person prays earnestly and with the whole of his/her heart, but is unaware that s/he prays for a grander reason, whatever that reason may be. Perhaps the prayer is to be “answered” in order to reaffirm faith. Perhaps it is to be denied to bring suffering for whatever reason. Perhaps one prays not so that the prayer can be answered, but so the effects of that “acceptance” or “rejection” can ripple out like when a stone is thrown into a lake, and so its ripples can interfere with the ripples of other actions, all of which react with the actions previous to them and cause the next set of events to occur, all of which repeats until the final purpose of all events is reaches and the universe becomes still once again. This belief also means that we must accept all evil things as coming from God, just as we accept that all good things come from God, and we must trust that God’s plan will result in something better than the nothingness from which He created everything. That is the faith to which I adhere.
Note that this is still a somewhat simplistic view of things. This essay assumes that existence is not itself the end to which God aspires, which is perfectly plausible in any respect. Remember that this is theorizing and philosophizing about –faith-, and faith is what we use to rationalize things about which we have no knowledge or facts. Many people are content to simply say “we don’t know and that’s all there is to it,” and that’s perfectly fine, but some people either aren’t able to live with that uncertainty or, like me, just enjoy speculating about what might be. Yes, religion does have its nutjobs – just like the scientific community, and just like any other group of people that has ever been established. What I want you to really get from this, aside from some understanding about the hows and whys of faith, is the understanding that religion plays a different role for everyone who is part of it — that some people need religion and, for the most part, that’s an okay thing. Also understand that every group has both extremist and moderates, and that some people are just crazy – don’t let the extremists, who often get the most attention, corrupt your view of the whole. Finally, real Christians aren’t here to force their beliefs on anyone; they’re here to be supportive to everyone and provide everyone the strength that the world sometimes cannot — that is the duty with which they are charged by their holy texts, their leaders, and their God. Where humans fail, God succeeds – regardless of whether He literally exists or if He is just some abstract idea. Because of that, you should look to religious people as your friends who can support you when you need help, and not as enemies who will try to exploit that weakness and “convert” you against your will.
April 27th, 2006 at 10:18 pm
[…] On a previous post, I ended the article with the folowing… Now I know that some of my Christian readers believe that Jesus has the power to help people. What I would like to know is why does he help a few and let millions of others die? Do you truly believe that God plays a role in who lives and who dies? I’m truly interested in hearing your thoughts so please contribute them. […]
May 11th, 2006 at 1:45 pm
So if i choose pikachu because his tail sticks up, and I can see his electric butthole, does that classify me in with this guy in all ya’ll’s books?
July 11th, 2006 at 3:21 pm
Yes.
February 26th, 2007 at 8:44 pm
I support Rolando. People around the world are living in a quest for cheap pleasure.. so it is almost impossible for all of you to understand his ordeal.
O.
March 31st, 2007 at 8:25 am
“The righteous perish, and no one ponders it in his heart; devout men are taken away, and no one understands that the righteous are taken away to be spared from evil. Those who walk uprightly enter into peace; they find rest as they lie in death.” Isaiah 57:1-2 in the New International Version of the Bible
So you see death is not to be feared by the upright. In fact, in some cases, God (in His infinte wisdom) uses it as a means by which to save someone from somthing much worse. And, for the follower of Christ, nothing can ever compare to the wonders we will experience after death. But, to any that don’t know God death should definitely be feared because nothing you will ever experience on Earth can even compare to the torture and horror you will experience when this life is over.
Maybe you think I am stupid for believing this. Maybe you think I’m wrong. But the way I see it: if I’m wrong and in my ignorant, simple mind I believe that there is a God and Jesus is the only way to Him and there is a heaven and a hell and because of all this I try to live a good life, then when I die there is nothingness and I have believed a lie, but so what, I lived a good life in ignorance! BUT……If you are the one that is wrong and I am right, then the consequences for you are much more severe and you will rot in Hell for all eternity! Just something to think about.
March 31st, 2007 at 10:13 am
Hi Jeff - here is something for you to think of. It may save your eternity!
There are over 4000 gods and goddesses in the world not counting the ones lost in history. Also some Gods have several variations just to make it even harder. Each day according to some sources 3 religions is formed on average.
If your parents and forefathers picked a false God for you, you are making the real God or Godess more and more angry at you each day that goes by.
We atheists haven’t picked any sides so all in all good luck Jeff when you die. With those odds you are really going to need it.
April 6th, 2007 at 10:06 pm
Yo man, whats with all this hostility. I don’t care about religion or anything, believe what you want. I talked to this guy who was Bakil or something and he told me that he believed that there is too much blood over religion. There is too much blood over religion, and it is such an unknown subject. Several people in the above articles mentioned that they have no idea what the Plan is if there even is one and can’t comprehend anything greater than themselves. People will interpret things differently and to try to force someone to say they beleive in one person interpretation and forsake their own is not right. Even if you believe in another god or no god, don’t undermine someone else’s belief because you think you’re right, because you may be wrong. We should leave religion and agression separate because there is one thing that I think most religions teach is to live a good life and be nice to others. We can take this to heart, because too many people have died over what noone is even sure of… Religion.
April 7th, 2007 at 11:00 pm
I agree that there is too much hostility. And, why do you think it is O.K. to insult Christianity and judge me for my beliefs? I don’t insult you for not believing in God, and I don’t tell you you’re crazy or stupid. I’m willing to have an open conversation, acknowledging you as having valid questions and points. You should be able to do the same for me, as a respectful human being. That being said, I have some thoughts:
In response to an earlier comment about the number of Gods and goddesses in the world. I bet if you looked at all the major religions in the world, you’d realize that although they are all different, mot follow a similar story. Many believe in Jesus…whether he was the Messiah or just a prophet, or just a good guy. In addition, many believe in the story of his birth and death. In fact, history will affirm that Jesus Christ existed! In addition, most religions have a story of a flood, etc. etc. There are so many similarities. This all leads me to ask the question… with most of the world believing almost the same story, how can there not be truth to it? It makes sense…the Bible matche up to history. I understand how someone could be confused as to which religion has the details correct…we can deal with that later. The first issue is, is there truth to the story that most of the world believes?
Finally, before debating why God lets some live and some die, etc. etc., we first need to etablish that God exists. To this, my question is this: No matter what you beleive about the creation of the world…that gases created matter, that atoms collided to create land, that thing evolved from one atom…you have to ask yourself, “Where did those gases come from? Or, where did that atom come from?” Something had to have created that thing. Something SUPERNATURAL. Only something upernatural could be able to exist without being created. So, we must believe in something supernatural. The discussion of which God to believe in is another conversation.
April 8th, 2007 at 9:36 am
Hello What’s truth,
“why do you think it is O.K. to insult Christianity and judge me for my beliefs? I don’t insult you for not believing in God, and I don’t tell you you’re crazy or stupid.”
I agree with part of your sentiment. People shouldn’t be insulted without good cause. I condemn pointless name calling right along with you. But I disagree that religion deserves special treatment or automatic respect. Beliefs are not automatically worthy of respect, though an individual’s right to believe is.
“with most of the world believing almost the same story, how can there not be truth to it?”
Despite what relativist claim, consensus does not make truth. At one point, most of the world believed the earth was flat, that the sun revolved around the earth, that diseases were caused by evil spirits, etc. These wide-spread beliefs didn’t make these things true no more than wide-spread religious beliefs make any religions true. So, no, there may not be truth to the story that most the world believes.
I also have my doubts as to a world consensus. Jesus was completely absent from eastern religions until the west sent missionaries. Similarities would have to be demonstrated. Yet, even if they were demonstrated, the do not guarantee truth.
I’ll let the atheists comment on your last paragraph, since I am convinced by a variation of that argument. Though I believe in an Ultimate Cause, I find most religions equally ridiculous. Supernatural stories are akin to alien abduction stories to me.
April 13th, 2007 at 8:18 pm
Good luck to him
he does what he believes in, puts him above 95% of the populous
Rather play cricket myself though
April 14th, 2007 at 10:42 am
Above?!?. Doing what one believes in does not make one better or ‘above’ anyone else. It depends on what one believes. History is full of examples of one group of people who believed that they were superior to another group. They acted on these beliefs and the results were oppression, slavery, murder, and genocide. These people were acting on their beliefs, but no one would consider them ‘above’ anyone else for this.
I know that what you wrote was probably just a throwaway statement used to make ‘Rather play cricket myself’ funnier, but this type of folk-morality is all to common. “Do what you believe is right” is only good advice if what one believes happens to be moral.
April 14th, 2007 at 6:19 pm
“Finally, before debating why God lets some live and some die, etc. etc., we first need to etablish that God exists. To this, my question is this: No matter what you beleive about the creation of the world…that gases created matter, that atoms collided to create land, that thing evolved from one atom…you have to ask yourself, “Where did those gases come from? Or, where did that atom come from?” Something had to have created that thing. Something SUPERNATURAL. Only something upernatural could be able to exist without being created. So, we must believe in something supernatural. The discussion of which God to believe in is another conversation.”
The good old Sky-crane. We either don’t have the answers now or you don’t like the answer from an empirical standpoint so you invoke the supernatural sky-crane as creator instead of natural process. Just because we can’t explain something doesn’t mean there’s a supernatural cause.
April 15th, 2007 at 10:22 pm
Sky-crane, huh? Well, I disagree. I believe that IS the answer…not just a substitute, not just something I believe to make myself feel better. It’s the only thing that it CAN be. Matter exists. It had to have been created. Something that’s not supernatural couldn’t create it. So, therefore, a supernatural being exists. I just DID explain it.
In reference to an earlier response to my claim that a wide-spread belief can be believed. You made good points about people beliving the world was flat and they were wrong. You’re right that we can’t belive something just because everyone else does. But, the truth is, that no one had seen the flat world. People did see Jesus. There is historical evidence that Jesus lived. Therefore, this discussion is in a different category. From there, we can discuss WHO Jesus was…prophet, good guy, or, as I believe…LORD?
I appreciate this open discussion. I’m glad to hear so many willing to share their ideas!
April 15th, 2007 at 10:44 pm
Ok, on the nothing can be created from nothing argument. Or law of conservation of mass-energy. I agree, so who created god? you may say he just exists outside of time, in which case you’ve broken you’re own logic and said something can exist with out a creator (I think it’s called ad-hoc fallacy and is frowned upon by logical types).
But if you read up on quantum vacuum fluctuations you can see that the universe can spring from the “nothing” of a vacuum and doesn’t need a creator to explain it. So, you don’t need a sky-crane.
As to jesus the historical character. No mention of him exists (as far as I know) by contempories. I’m sure that if he did all this miraculous stuff, the romans who were meticulous at writing down stuff and other contemporaries would’ve noted this guy doing miracles, no? But no, we only get stuff about jesus years after him, by people who had no first hand info on him. So, who were the people who did see jesus and chronicle it?
April 15th, 2007 at 10:53 pm
And I forgot to mention (doing this a lot as I’m posting from work, so need to multitask), and this is very important. If science has no answer to a question (which it often does), this is not a failing of science. We are ignorant of many things and in the fullness of time, science may rid us of this ignorance or may not. But this in no way supports god as being the answer any more than leprechauns as being the answer (If you allow for a god creator you have to allow for a spaghetti monster, et al). There is no proof of god or any other supernatural beings.
April 15th, 2007 at 11:11 pm
There are the little issues about no one writing anything about the resurection (as seen by 500+ people!!) or anything jesus said for about what , 30(to 70) years after he died … then that part about christianity blatently anexing other religions beleifs and holidays to make the idea more platable, oh and alllll the similar messianic stories near by….then there was the prevelence of peote use for religios practice of the time (peote use in desert religions you say *gasp* never)
anyway
all we’d like is some decent proof to the over all claim of “magic man dunnit”
also @#12
Pasqual’s wager means you have a petty God, plus iirc it’s damndable by muslim beliefs to worship jesus as divine, 1.3billion of them say you could be wrong.
and then…
for any of you biblical literalists: 1/3 of heaven was cast out due to Lucifers trickery , 1/3 of the Earths Populace believes Jesus was Christ…. who would be more likely to require flesh and blood worship regularly ?
April 16th, 2007 at 8:55 am
Hello What’s truth?,
Thanks for responding. Any religious person willing to comment on a largely atheist blog has got to be willing to endure some hostility. I appreciate the effort.
I’m glad you recognize that consensus does not make truth and that evidence is necessary to validate any claim. I don’t doubt that a Jewish religious leader named Jesus existed. What I do doubt are the supernatural qualities attributed to him. The only evidence for these qualities (that I am aware of) is the Biblical accounts, or documents based on those accounts. But I don’t trust one source that is likely biased and exaggerated. I am open to any evidence you may have.
On Ultimate Cause arguments, or Sky-cranes, as Dawkins puts it, I disagree with your particular formulation, but recognize that the general idea has validity. There must be some Ultimate Cause, but there is no reason to assume that the Cause is described in the Bible. The Cause could very well be an uncaring Creator that didn’t know how Its creation would turn out. Unfortunately, the only thing that Ultimate Cause type arguments can tell us is that something exists that causes everything to exist. We don’t know if this Cause answers prayers, offers an afterlife, sends ’sons’ to Earth in human form, or even knows that humans exist.
April 16th, 2007 at 7:58 pm
Hey Sid, I largely agree with you on most topics. Though the ultimate cause one completely loses me. Not that that’s a problem just seems out of whack with more of your posts (in my opinion).
I’m wondering if it’s because you mistakenly believe the big bang was the beginning of everything and thus needs a creator?
Science says the big bang (bad name, but that’s what we’re stuck with) was the a time of observable expansion of energy-matter in our universe. Before that the universe was unrecogniseable and not measureable. It doesn’t however suggest that the matter/energy came into existence at the moment of the big bang. The universe has always had that matter/energy, even before the big bang. It doesn’t require a creator. As I understand this, it’s quite esoteric, the whole quantum vacuum fluctuations stuff. But it seems to me a better explanation than a more complex creator who kick started the whole thing off…..
Anyway, I’d love to know your point of view and forgive me if I’ve misunderstood or misrepresented them.
April 17th, 2007 at 8:54 am
Hey Brian,
I’ve been asked this a couple of times recently, so I’m just going to link a few of my comments on the topic. If you have any questions after reading these, please ask.
Read comments #69 through #72, and comments #134 through #137. Also, since many of the objections I receive to my deism ultimately source from Dawkins’s “The God Delusion”, you can read my brief critique of his philosophy here. I hope this helps.
April 17th, 2007 at 6:49 pm
Hey Sid, thanks for the response. I have checked the posts you linked to and this is where my sledgehammer fails me. In my understanding, you posit there is a creator simply because the universe exists. But what if the universe simple always existed, in one form or another? To me that may not explain everything, but it doesn’t require the inclusion of a creator however great or simple. Thoughts?
April 18th, 2007 at 4:18 pm
Hey Brian,
I nearly missed your comment buried amongst the others. I’m glad I remembered to come back and check.
If the universe has always existed, in one form or another, then you are correct, First Cause arguments fail. An infinite past is one of the classic refutations of the classic version of the cosmological argument. The argument also fails since time seems to be an attribute of our universe. In this case, something existing ‘before’ the universe is nonsensical, even if the past is not infinite.
The version of the argument that I find convincing is the modal cosmological argument. Basically, it replaces time-based causality with contingency-based causality. Everything in nature depends upon the existence of other things for existence. For example, living cells depend on the existence of molecules. If all molecules were to disappear this moment, so would all living cells. In this sense, molecules ’cause’ cells. Put another way, the existence of cells is contingent on the existence of molecules. Similarly, molecules are contingent on atoms, atoms on sub-atomic particles, etc.
What the argument says is that there must be some self-contingent thing, substance, or being (I have no idea which); something that relies on no other thing for its existence. This, whatever it may be, I define as God.
…but…
A thought has just occurred to me. Is it possible that there is an actual infinite regression of contingencies? I’ve never considered that before. This will require more thought.
The next thing that occurs to me is that an actual infinite regress of contingencies would imply that there are an infinite variety of types of things. Then all types of things that could exist, would exist, including a vastly superior intelligence. Thus assuming a finite regress of contingencies is actually the more conservative guess.
Anyone have thoughts on this? I’m really interested in pursuing this train of thought.
April 18th, 2007 at 7:45 pm
Hey Sid, this train of thought is really cool. In a way it reminds me of the infinite universes idea or the idea that each act branches off into every possible outcome, so that all possibilities come true.
I haven’t really thought about it, but it seems like the kind of thing that if you were sitting on a crassy plain in the middle of nowhere with a clear sky about would really trip you out. :) Let me know what pops into your head and I’ll do the same if I get any insights.
Also, forgive me if my language isn’t quite up with yours. I’m just getting into some philosophical ideas and so don’t have the jargon to express them well.
April 26th, 2007 at 5:54 am
Well, for Christian Good Fridays are once a year.. as a Muslim, all Fridays are good for me..
and remember to drive carefully. Not everytime can you crucify someone for your sins and get away with it!
Jesus did not die on the cross - now that is what i call a MIRACLE.
May 13th, 2007 at 7:51 pm
Brian wrote: “As to jesus the historical character. No mention of him exists (as far as I know) by contempories. I’m sure that if he did all this miraculous stuff, the romans who were meticulous at writing down stuff and other contemporaries would’ve noted this guy doing miracles, no? But no, we only get stuff about jesus years after him, by people who had no first hand info on him. So, who were the people who did see jesus and chronicle it?”
To answer your question as to why the Romans did not record the existance of Jesus, the answer is that the records that exist today are those written by high patriarchs who were only concerned with Emperors and Kings. They were not concerned with Jesus. When Christianity grew, Jesus gained more interest, and Tacitus (a Roman historian) did record information about him in the second century. Josephus also mentions Jesus in his writings, but there is some debate over the authenticity. There might be more. These are the ones I know of right now.
I hope that answers your question.
May 13th, 2007 at 8:03 pm
Hey What’s Truth. It doesn’t really answer the question. The Romans certainly would’ve mentioned a guy who was occasioning supernatural activity wouldn’t they?
May 29th, 2007 at 2:31 pm
Jesus loves all of you, no matter what you say. It is a good thing many Christians are patient, other wise you guys would be killed by the age of 3. And if you think Jesus gets off, well, say hey to Satan and Lucifer for me, You’ll be seeing a lot of them.
May 31st, 2007 at 12:23 pm
I agree with Josh.
June 5th, 2007 at 11:19 pm
Whatever turns him on! Maybe for the last time he does this trick, he should do a David Blaine. Try it upside down!
June 28th, 2007 at 5:43 pm
Well, um, looking at the way you’re describing this and asking your questions, I doubt that there’s actually an answer to this you’d accept. Granted, I don’t understand this guy either (Couldn’t he have promised something less…um…painful?) but I believe in the power of prayer.
And why do you care so much? If this guy believes that Christ answered his prayer, let him, who are you to decide whether or not that’s true?
Seriously, in the past not believing was dangerous and in our “free” times believing in more than just sex and Darwin is regarded with suspicion and ridicule. So much for “freedom”.
June 28th, 2007 at 5:46 pm
And there are references to Christ in other historical texts than the 4 gospels. Aside from them there are at least 30 more accounts on his life by others (Mary Magdalene, Philipp, Judas etc.) as well as mentions in Roman texts. A Roman emperor would hardly convert to a religion based on a myth that only existed outside of Roman opinions. (And Constanine was no fool by any means)
June 28th, 2007 at 6:44 pm
I’m sorry, but I don’t understand where you are getting the idea that suspecting or ridiculing someone who believes “more than sex and Darwin” destroys freedom. Anyone is free to suspect and ridicule anyone they like. You may suspect and ridicule me, and it will in no way restrict my freedom. I can suspect and ridicule you all I like and not restrict your freedom.
In fact, if you passed a law preventing one party from suspecting and ridiculing another, that law would restrict freedom.
So, dear Elisabetta, please feel free to be as suspicious of and ridicule anyone you wish, and respect other’s freedom to do the same.
July 1st, 2007 at 6:12 pm
This site obviously is ran by some Atheist. Well with any thing, as people we have free will (choice) to do whatever as we please. So if this man wishes to nail himself to a cross in the same fashion as Jesus Christ was, so be it. God can chose to come in at any time and cause things to happen. But that would be so easy though if God would have control over the actions of people. It wouldn’t be free will at all. Secondly I must add that if you believe in the story of Adam and Eve, they sort of ruined it for the human race in the first place in living in “paradise”. It is typical of human beings to want to blame their issues on some one else or God. However, there is pain because it is the acts of other people or yourself who cause their own misery. Life is a learning experiences and just because you and me may be considerate people, that doesn’t mean others are. Faith makes a person strong, and sure there are illnesses in this world, but who caused all that to come into play? People. Flithy little creatures we are…pollutions, disease, murder, etc. God bless this world and every one in it.
July 1st, 2007 at 6:19 pm
In regards to “Does God play a part in people dying”? If it is in the best of humanity needs, perhaps so. If it’s just some accidental death that some one caused because of stupidity, no. Like anything, things do not happen randomly, especially with that so call “Human Evolution”. If that is science, and science is suppose to be observable, I don’t think there is a shred of scientific evidence that shows the “gradual transitition” of people from apes. For a belief in God, that is not scientific, it is faith and we all should be smart about out faith in the lord and live our lives as peaceful as possible not going around hurting any one intentionally, in no form what so ever as a matter of fact. The only “Evolution” I see is technology and that growth of knowledge. Back to the subject at hand, people have a choice and that choice is important. There are consequences to the choices you make, and God may be sitting up there in Heaven or wherever…but with those blessings this man wife to get her through her child birthing issues. Hell, no one else is helping the man out, might as well be God. I rest my case.
July 1st, 2007 at 6:28 pm
One more thing, lets really be serious here about God. God is not a genie. God does not grant people wishes. Prayer is away to connect to God and speak of your troubles or praise the lord. The lord will give you guidances and through out time, that help will come to you through God’s blessings. It really annoys me when some Atheist thinks that God is a genie. Of course, if you have faith in the “magic ooze” and all people coming from Apes, or not believing in God at all, you would probably be narrow minded as well. Remember what moral/ethics are based on, a higher being. Christianity, Hinduism, Mormonism, Catholism, Zoroastrainism, Islam, Shamanism, Judaism all had their beliefs based on a higher power (God) in regards to morals. What about Atheist, Buddhist, Scientology? Though they lack a belief in a higher power, their morality has obviously originated from those religions I have mentioned above. So what if you do not believe in God, then you shouldn’t take and use our morality then. Simple as that.
July 1st, 2007 at 9:01 pm
David,
Man existed before any of the religions you named. The religions took the natural instinct we share with all primates to form societies for the survival of the entire tribe, and formed so-called “moralities” from that. Mankind had morals far before they felt the need to worship the sun. So if anything, us atheists just want out morals back.
Also, some of what you wrote shows that you lack a basic understanding of the theory of evolution. No one believes we came from apes, just that modern primates had a common ancestor. Also, the theories of evolution moved on from “gradual transition” quite a while ago. You may want to search Wikipedia for a good overview of the current state of the evolutionary theories.
July 2nd, 2007 at 1:52 am
Andrew,
Religion itself has been around for quite some time regardless of when the world started. Let it be worshipping God, that is what morals were based off of in the first place. The concept of God may be different in those religions who do have a belief in a higher power, but Morals itself are pretty similar. For some one who is Pagan, sacrificing humans are fine with them to please their “God(s)”. But we all know that is a big no-no. So for those of us who believe in a higher power that our morality is based on, lets keep it that way.
From my understanding about “Human Evolution”, as most Evolutionist would claim, we did “evolve” from apes but the “missing links”. However, those missing links as claimed before were all on fraudlent.
http://home.primus.com.au/bonno/evolution8.htm
All the references for this is one the last page.
My understanding about “Evolution” seems to be that what they call natural selection seems more like adapation. You move from a cooler climate to a warmer one, of course there will be changes. Although, I do not see many Black people who go from having a darker eye color to a color such as blue or green if they moved to Greenland. I wonder some thing else…if European men were discribed as “cave dwellers”, then why is it, that the Africans were more advanced in their way of life than the Europeans then? I suppose life just sprung about from the “magic ooze” (primodial soup), and where is the evidence in that these days?
I am sure you could probably try to say the same thing about God. But God is not a phyiscal thing, and that is some thing spiritual. We could go on and on and say God is imaginary. But here is the differences from God and an imaginary friend. A person has tea parties with their imaginary friend, and only one person can see “them”. With God, All those who believe in God, can “see” and feel God in their soul. Plus, I do not know too many people who pray to their imaginary friends, that is some thing we people who believe in God do as a means of worship. This may be inappropriate to be comparing A feeling of God to this, but it is the only way for some one to understand why there are people who know there is a God. It is pretty simple. It’s like a woman who had an orgasm (feeling of God). She knows what it feels like to have one, and she knows what it’s not like to have one. No one can never take that feeling away, regardless of what the naysayers think.
July 2nd, 2007 at 9:06 am
Hello David Earl Williams III,
Then why are the least religious, industrialized nations socially healthier, having lower rates of homicide, teen pregnancy, and abortion (full study here)? Why does Japan, with over half the population as atheist/agnostic have one-tenth of the crime as the overwhelmingly theistic United States? How is it that millions of atheists are not in prison and, by and large, moral people? Your claim that God is required for morality is false and even offensive.
Also, I looked at the link you provided. Who is Henry James Chreechan? He’s the author of the book you link, but I couldn’t find his credentials, publications, or even when he wrote this book. Does he even have an accredited degree? The references on the last page are at least 20 years old, so I’m assuming this isn’t a recent work. Also, was it published and peer-reviewed?
Um, evolution takes hundreds of thousands of years, not the few centuries that blacks have lived in Greenland.
I’m not sure what you are getting at here, but I think it has to do with the false belief that evolution must match with some concept of ‘advancement’. This is not the case. Advancement only occurs if it imparts survival or reproductive advantages.
The theory of abiogenesis (life from non-life) is a completely different theory than that of evolution. For obvious reasons, it is much less well supported than evolution. But not having an adequate natural explanation of the ultimate origin of life does not imply that there is no such explanation (i.e, “I don’t know does not equal “God did it”).
What, exactly, is a ’spiritual thing’? Can you define it without reference to material things?
The word ’see’ is in quotes because you cannot actually see anything. Why, then, can’t everyone agree on what God ‘looks’ and feels like? See Allah, Vishnu, Yahweh, The Tao (that cannot be said), Athena, Thor, The Great Spirit, etc. Also, what is a soul? I’ve yet to hear an adequate definition of one combined with convincing evidence that humans are in possession of them. And finally, feeling something doesn’t imply truth. Many religious people felt like the earth was the center of creation, and felt this deeply. We now know that our earth orbits a sun, which is one of billions of stars spinning in a galaxy, that is one of billions of galaxies.
There are legitimate reasons to believe in God, but you cite none of them. Also, if the existence of God is established, then you have the additional burden of proving that your version of God is the correct one and that the majority of the other theists are all wrong.
July 2nd, 2007 at 9:37 am
David,
I don’t think you did your homework. If you had read the Wikipedia article you would know the following:
1. The theory of evolution, much like the theory of quantum mechanics and the theory of gravity, is incomplete. If it were complete, there would be no reason to keep studying it. It may never explain everything about how life evolved, but it slowly gets closer to that goal.
2. Fraudulent claims of finding “missing links” do not mar the validity of the theory of Evolution. That is a logical fallacy. Does every greedy priest who steals from a congregation’s charitable donations, or every insane person who claims God told him to kill his family mar the concept of God? Of course not. In every field — be it evolution, physics, medicine, or theology — there will be someone wanting to make a buck or be famous who is willing to lie. (Side note, the link you provided had no references, which makes it a dubious source for information.)
3. Natural selection is not debated by scientists or even theologians. Because it is an observable phenomenon, it is undeniable. Also, adaptation is the result of natural selection, they are not the same thing.
4. Evolution is about long-term changes in groups of animals. It never predicts that an individual moving to Greenland will change eye-color. *
5. Evolution does not and is not intended to answer the question of how the first life began. Abiogenesis (from which you have gotten the term “primordial soup”) is it’s own separate field with it’s own separate researchers and it’s own separate debate.
*Also note that because of intelligence, humans are able to perform artificial selection on themselves, so many believe that natural selection does not apply to us any more. There is no reason that humans need to adapt to extreme cold, for example, because we wear clothing.
July 2nd, 2007 at 9:49 am
Hey Andrew,
It looks like our posts crossed paths. You succeeded in responding to David Earl Williams III much more succinctly than I, thanks. One minor point, the references to his link are available, just not easy to find. I found them here. As I pointed out, all the references are 20+ years old. Also, they include multiple publications from the intellectually dishonest Duane Gish. Thus even with citations, the book is still suspect.
July 2nd, 2007 at 9:49 am
As for morals stemming from religion:
Observe a wolf pack or another group of mammals. They exhibit some of the same “moral” behaviors as humans.
* A wolf pack does not normally kill one of it’s own, yet will kill strangers over territory. Just as God commanded “Thou shall not kill (other Israelites)” but then commanded the Israelites to slay all of the Canaanites.
* Wolves have a pecking order for who gets what when eating. This pecking order is rarely broken (thou shalt not steal, thou shalt not covet).
* In a wolf pack, if it is found that a wolf is hiding food (thou shalt not bare false witness), they are punished by a reduction in the pecking order, or even death.
* Many mammals mate for life (thou shalt not commit adultery).
* In some mammal groups, family bonds are important for distribution of food and territory (honor thy father and mother).
So what do we have left of the big 10 that came from God?
No other gods, no graven images, honor the sabbath. It seems the only morals we find that aren’t observable elsewhere in nature are the one that deal with obeying God.
Sure, the 10 commandments aren’t the be-all-end-all of morality, but as you can see, they idea that humans are unique in morality and that this morality can only come from religion is a bit absurd.
July 2nd, 2007 at 9:54 am
Hey sidfaiwu,
Thanks for the link. I guess I should have been tipped off by the “Chapter” heading to look for end notes.
July 23rd, 2007 at 8:35 am
Look, Jesus took it upon himself to die on the cross. He never told humans to pay the price, just follow and take up your duty to follow christ by carrying your cross.
Jesus payed the price, you receive the gift of Salvation. Simple no?
I can’t say this is gospelic or whatnot, all I can say is this. Jesus died for you, not you for him. Jesus never asked us to show extraordinary acts of devotion by dying or inflicting pain for devotion to him. Surely as a christian you die for him, but thats a good thing, through Christ you ARE SAVED> So I have no idea what you think of JESUS. But he gives a gift for you to recieve.
August 30th, 2007 at 7:07 am
All humans are sinful and equally deserve to feel God’s(the guy who created this damn universe) wrath. But some of us get off scot free because of God’s amazing grace.
The gift of salvation through Jesus Christ our Lord can save your ass if you believe in him. But your scared of religion. Well Jesus didn’t start a religion sweetheart he gave us a way to eternal life. Jesus broke the chains of sin and rules. Just believe and be saved. I have to apologize for all my brothers and sisters in Christ (as well as my self) for being pushy and hypocritical. Hope it makes consider who to side with God or the Devil.
August 30th, 2007 at 3:06 pm
“Hope it makes consider who to side with God or the Devil.”
there has to be a third choice…
September 13th, 2007 at 11:06 pm
Philippians 4:6-7
Hebrews 4:16
MOST IMPORTANTLY: Matthew 7:7-11
I pray that you find peace in your soul. I pray that you find God. And I pray that these posts are somehow part of that journey for you.
This man’s covenant with God is honored as his request was honored.
Christians are not “freaks” we chose to believe that which makes us whole and happy. We find peace and healing in the scriptures. So what if we end up being wrong, we lived a life that makes us whole and helped us positively contribute to the world. I hope that your doctrine sir, whatever it may be, is as equally positive in your life and creates such an uplifting well being. My heart goes to you man.
September 14th, 2007 at 3:28 am
@jessica
please provide examples of positive contributions to the world. thx.
September 14th, 2007 at 8:21 am
sure, you do my praying, i’ll do your thinking for you.
point is, if you want to live in ignorance then go right ahead. My problem is with christians forcing their ‘views’ on the rest of us, limiting human progress with their archaic limitations and generally making other people feel bad.
October 23rd, 2007 at 11:03 am
my question is why do you care? why are you making such a big deal over something that wasnt any of your business in the first place. Do you think Rolando gives a crap what you think? Probably not. you want a Jesus who will take you shopping. A “god-in-a-box”. Well Jesus isnt one much for malls. Even if you dont like Rolando, he’s got a lot more integrity than you ever will. And another thing- by making such a big deal about this-your only giving it MORE publicity intsead of downplaying it like you were trying to do in the first place. idiot.
October 23rd, 2007 at 12:54 pm
Too funny. Blogs are meant for people to express their opinions about topics that interest them. Freaky religious interest gasmonso (or at least they used to) and those of us who frequent this blog. Why? There are a few reasons. First, the suspension of reason associated with strong religious beliefs make some people do some incredibly stupid things, like crucify themselves. Their foolishness is simultaneously humorous and alarming to those of us who love reason. If someone is gullible enough to harm oneself based on his or her beliefs than one is likely gullible enough to harm others based on those beliefs.
Jesus take us shopping? god-in-a-box? What the hell are you talking about?
I’ll allow others to determine the status of my integrity. If you’re comfortable passing judgment on my integrity based on next to no knowledge about me, that is your business. I’m glad most people will take your opinion on that subject for what it’s worth; next to nothing.
Lastly, we encourage more publicity for this guy. We love to expose the extreme and harmful behavior that can result from religious belief.
October 23rd, 2007 at 2:32 pm
Dear Idiot,
Quite lovely post but you do sell yourself little short with your signature, I personally would change it but that is your choice.
You do realize that you are doing exactly what you say we should not do, making a big deal of something that is business of yours, by the text you provided.
Now, the jesus taking to shopping is amusing and if people you address would be the fast-food christians it might be proper description but sadly your foil strikes empty in this forum.
“a-god-in-a-box”, well that is familiar term to me but am only assuming that you meant television. It is possible you are still talking of the fast-food jesus, who knows, to me your writing was somewhat incoherent.
Now rolando, he made a promise and he is keeping it. It does not really require much integrity, he gets cruxified once a year, he would not have made much of an flagellant. What so special he does? Nothing really.
I am interested to know what is your definition of integrity as I really do not see much integrity in doing one thing which is somewhat painful, once a year. It has no moral requirement nor ethical components. It has nothing to do with being unimpaired and complete.
Jagannath.
November 8th, 2007 at 6:51 pm
Well, the honest Christain Response to tragedy is just… we dont know. We don’t know why it happens. This dude just decides to take it to the extreme.
January 28th, 2008 at 10:32 pm
That man should be hanged until death… i don´t realy care about some religius idiot crucifing himself, what it bothers me is that there are children watching, lets face it religion is for simple minded beasts, real rational people can live without looking answers in a 2000 year old bed time story, may be god exist, may be not but i am sure that he doesn´t give a damn about people in earth, we are tiny particles of dust living in a tiny planet in a corner of the universe, i live a happy life without god and sometimes i think that if people stoped thinking like cave neanderthals and realized that in 2008 there is no god may be this planet could be a little nicer, don´t get me wrong, i think that people like the pope are good examples, but so is the dalai lama, and acording to the bible the dalai lama is doomed, he isnt baptised, he does not acknowledge jesus christ….how many good man have lived and died without knowing or caring about a damn cross…. what is a cross??…is just a woden thing….used to kill criminals long before jesus was nailed and long after…its so stupid that if jesus whould have lived in the 18th century my granny would have a guillotine on top of her bed instead of a cross….so people stop warring about stupids thing abobe you..
January 31st, 2008 at 1:15 am
You say..why do some people die and others live? Good question. The answer is: God has given us full management, full responsibility of the earth. whatever happens here is our call. It is no longer His. That answers the question why the whole earth is messed up. He has given us free choice, or free will. People die for their own reasons and others live for their own reasons. God only enters the scene if and only if we ask Him to. So those who believe in Jesus and calls on Him will not be put to shame. Call on Jesus, you will not be put to shame. Jesus loves you!
January 31st, 2008 at 1:25 am
@ MerryAnn
So the all-knowing, all-powerful god that created the universe just decided to let us feeble humans take control? Wow, how convenient for all christains.
“People die for their own reasons and others live for their own reasons. God only enters the scene if and only if we ask Him to.”
So it’s the fault of the starving children all around the world that they are in that situation because they don’t worship the right god? I must say I can’t think of any free-thinking individual who could worship such a self-absorbed, vindictive asshole.
February 7th, 2008 at 9:17 am
O.k just because you feel that you couldn’t find christ in your life doesn’t mean he isn’t active in other people lives. Everthing is in Gods will, and we as humans have no right to evn question the works of God. He is alive and is the same yesterday, today, and tomorrw. I’vs seen him work wonders in my life. I truly urge you to turn your life to him. HE will surly undo what you have become because i see him doing it to me!
Give Christ your life and read Romans 10:9
repeat after me “Father God, i repent of my sins. I ask you to forgive me and wash me with the blood of christ. come into my life and take me out of every mess im in. I renounce the Devil and all of his ways and the world and choose to follow you for the rest of my life. Guide to all truth and help me to keep your commandments. In jesus name, AMEN”
Now just get into a well BIBLE TEACHING church and begen to seek God with all your heart.
anyone who have any questions feel free to email me at makdymakmak@yahoo.com
Love you in Christ
February 7th, 2008 at 10:07 am
“O.k just because you feel that you couldn’t find christ in your life doesn’t mean he isn’t active in other people lives.”
No, actually it means there is no god and whenever morons like you claim to “know” he/she/it exists it’s either wishful thinking or a delusion.
“we as humans have no right to evn question the works of God.”
Oh wow, thats so convenient for you and your ilk that can’t deal with even the smallest of dissent. I tell you what, how bout you just keep praying that your god will make people like me shut up, we’ll see if it ever works.
February 7th, 2008 at 10:09 am
repeat after me:
“people of the world, I apologise for being a thick-headed idiot and believing in a fiction bearded man in sky. I hope you can forgive for all the wrongs I have done to you in the name of my religion, and the wrong I have condoned by following it. I renounce religion and promise to think critically and reasonably to improve the world we live in and the standard of life.
For all our sakes”
I like mine a lot better. If anyone has questions, don’t listen to me, go out and find your own answers instead of taking them blindly from someone else.
February 12th, 2008 at 10:43 pm
Actually, God cares for ALL of his children, whether you believe in him or not. He makes miracles happen in your life everyday, it’s just a matter of you taking the time to open your eyes and see it. God is looking out for you all the time.
Ever forget something and have to run back in the house in the morning? I did one time, and then left for work and came up on an accident in the middle of an intersection that had happened just moments before. Was God protecting me from this suffering?
No one said that Christianity is easy. If it was easy, there would be more outspoken Christians in the world. One of the other ‘hot and heavy’ questions asked by people in hard times, such as losing a child, is “Where was God when my son died?” Well, he was in the same place he was when his son died - seated on the throne in heaven. Could he have intervened to prevent the whole thing from happening? Absolutely, but he already knew the sacrifice that his son was supposed to make and it was meant to happen that way. God wants to help you too.
Where is the proof? The proof is in the findings - the most recent being a tablet that contained mathematical writings that coincide with a writings in the bible. A portion of Noah’s Ark being found, the site in Jerusalem that Jesus died looking exactly as it was described in the bible. These are all signs that it isn’t just a “warm and fuzzy” we get from believing, it is real. Faith is believing in something not seen. We can’t see the wind, but we know it is there because we can feel it. Don’t knock the Christians that have accepted that ability to feel it as well, and should you decide to join us, you will feel it too.
February 12th, 2008 at 10:50 pm
“Was God protecting me from this suffering?”
No, and if your god existed and he played a part in protecting you, why wouldn’t he just NOT ALLOW THE WRECK TO HAPPEN? If that’s the case then I wouldn’t worship your god anyways, because he’s a vindictive asshole.
February 13th, 2008 at 1:49 am
I call bullshit on all of those.
Proof, links, sources please?
I call bullshit again. Wind can be detected, there is no objective method of gauging the warm fuzzy feeling you get. Besides, every single religious person has the same warm fuzzy feeling inside, heck i’m an atheist and I feel warm and fuzzy to.
February 13th, 2008 at 2:49 am
Ginseng tea always gives me that warm and fuzzy feeling, especially when I add a dollop of honey. But, back on the topic of the post, I recall seeing a report on NBC of a study group that has actually built a cross to examine the effects of crucifixion on a human body. The results are pretty grim. I expect this guy is shortening his life expectancy by a great deal to go through this ordeal on a regular basis . . . as I recall, subjects in the crucifixion reported and recorded some pretty serious problems within the first hour or so. To quote Mr. Deity, “Yeah, that’s the downside.”
February 20th, 2008 at 8:33 pm
[…] the current, historical, cultural, religious and of course, medical implications. I ran across this site. I enjoyed the conservative defense of crucifixion in the threads below more than the video […]
February 25th, 2008 at 12:23 am
History does not record anywhere at any time a religion that has any rational basis. Religion is a crutch for people not strong enough to stand up to the unknown without help. But, like dandruff, most people do have a religion and spend time and money on it and seem to derive considerable pleasure from fiddling with it. -Robert A. Heinlein, Time Enough for Love, 1972
In my opinion, if the theories and speculations of christianity and jesus were true, one would think “jesus” would save all children. What makes this guy’s child more special (in his gods eyes) than someone else’s child? All I know is if Jesus were alive today, I would love to bang him.
- Jas
March 7th, 2008 at 9:05 pm
I dont think it’s right for him to do that because its like hes putting himself on a pedestal to be worshipped and hes in a way making a mockery of the Cross of Christ and what it truly represents! I mean, I know that I myself could never do anything scary like that,but still! Jesus died on the cross so we dont have to do that for our own salvation :) He already took care of it! All this man needs to do is accept the gift of salvation by asking Jesus to come into his heart and save him from his sins :) Thats it! That’s all! I just wish everyone else knew its really that simple :)No one can EARN salvation, it’s impossible.
I dont who you are or how many great or horrible things you have done; salvation thru Jesus is for everyone :D
Be Blessed, pplz! <3
March 7th, 2008 at 11:20 pm
Nicole, I think you miss the point of what he is doing. In the cultures of Latin America, one very often finds a ritualization of the crucifixtion. The reason (as my acquaintence from Ecuador explained it) is threefold: 1) to identify with the suffering of Ieasu Cristos (not to supplant it, but to show that the devout recognize it in a very literal, physical way, and appreciate it); 2) to provide a stark visual image of said suffering in lands where movies and tv’s have been exceedingly rare until recently; and 3) to bring the community together in a way that most outside the culture don’t understand: it is considered an *honor* to suffer as Ieasu Crsitos suffered, with those who are chosen considered to be the “best our town can offer” — so as to not offend Yahweh/Jehovah/Allah with presumption, but give thanks for what was done. Does that help your understanding?
Of course, as I pointed out in my earlier post, #68, it’s bad for you; at the very least physically. And, of course, it’s outside my belief system, so I respect things like firewalking and brick breaking more (they demonstrate “mind over matter” without actual harm to the subject . . . mostly).
March 21st, 2008 at 8:26 am
Seeing as this is a site for atheists and I have seen much of the disbelief and animosity extended to Christians, I offer this. I truly feel badly for those who claim it is all a farce, that he wouldn’t allow “this” to happen or that, that our arrogance in science in thinking that we can unravel all the secrets of the universe which will never happen. Then, after we cannot explain something in our simple human minds, we disenchant the existence of God and claim a theory, still unfounded that life was created from nothing.
What really strikes nearer to my heart is that Atheist will often criticize the fact that we, Christians live under the Law of God and do as he teaches. Well, Newsflash.. many of the laws set up by you individual countries are the very same laws set up in the Old Testament and you are forced to follow them lest you pay the consequences of incarceration or death. Does it anger you… to think you are free but still be a slave to the federal laws and at the same time be following the Word of God…against your will?
I think that it’s ironic and truly amazing. I also must say this, If our God, being as gracious and forgiving as he is did not proclaim that we must love one another (even YOU) then I would be more than happy to assist in bringing you into the light or your own transgressions, to show you that all your misdeeds that you so arrogantly perform have consequences for sure and that when you do die, as you shall that you will be taken to a place set aside for you that is OH so Special and created by the same that created this earth. And as you sit in this tomb of one thousand wall and one thousand hall in the same “position as you fall” and suffer a pain that even humans cannot comprehend, you can look up at the glorified in envy and realize that you were fools all along. Of course we all realize that sin is pleasurable “but it lasts for only a season” and then you will have nothing, the same emptiness you believe created the world. Unfortunately you have to live our your lives wasting God’s time for a turnaround that will only come when you are begging forgiveness in the flames of hell. I truly will shed a tear for you all today on this Good Friday as I remember that although He went to hell and returned.. you will rot there for eternity.
Amen
March 21st, 2008 at 8:54 am
typo… “you have to live OUT your lives”
Thanks.
March 21st, 2008 at 9:02 am
“you will rot there for eternity.”
Mmmm, can’t you feel all that famous christian love?
March 21st, 2008 at 9:07 am
Hey.. I said I would shed a tear for you. Don’t twist my words that is the way of evil. I actually did say a prayer for you but it is what is believed.
I have read many of your comments personally (75) and I can understand your standpoint. I hope you find some salvation.
March 21st, 2008 at 9:14 am
If you understood my standpoint then you wouldn’t be telling me I’m going to hell. Word to the wise: it doesn’t matter how many times you talk about praying for us when your spouting this crap, your still saying it, praying doesn’t somehow cancel it or anything.
March 21st, 2008 at 9:19 am
In fact, you are wrong because I was at one point, an Atheist, and agnostic and now a believer and I have seen that prayer does lift us up and can make the weight of the world seem less. Unless you have done both with equal effort in each, you will not know what it is like and therefore would not call it “crap”. I have live in a living hell for years and after I overcame it I found God, no my own. I could easily have said.. I would be master of my own fate and tried to with no avail. Praying for you may do nothing because you won’t even try to open your heart to the blessings of others. I even am thankful for the blessing of people from other religions. So I will say it again I understand your standpoint and telling you about hell is obviously not enough for you. I can understand that. It’s unfortunate there isn’t a glimpse of it to show to allow people to see it exists. The knock continues to get fainter.
March 21st, 2008 at 9:26 am
I, like MANY people here, are former christians. You claim that you were once “an Atheist, and agnostic”, which one was it, were you one, then the other? or do you for some reason think they are they the same?
“telling you about hell is obviously not enough for you”
Yeah, that lasted about as long as santa clause. But call me crazy I like something more than fear of punishment to believe something.
March 21st, 2008 at 9:32 am
I was both. At one time I believed in nothing and then I questioned. I think we are missing the main point here. Fear of punisment, as you know already, is not the golden nugget thas is supposed to make you believe in Christianity. The fact that a stranger died for you and all the horrible crap you and I do just to help us out is the reason. I also sure you know this but perhaps choose not to believe it. I must ask this… you spoke of the famous love of Christians but how much love does a person have when they know someone died for them but could care less about it. How much humanity could they have to show no respect for someone that would do that for them. That is the proof of our love. Also, if I knew that sacraficing my life could win you over to Christ, I would gladly do it to save you, and I don’t know you at all.
March 21st, 2008 at 9:39 am
“How much humanity could they have to show no respect for someone that would do that for them. ”
So because I don’t worship this one guy I MUST not have humanity, forget the volunteer work I’ve done or that my life goal is to develop tools to help humankind(google Dean Kamen). What an idiotic generalization, the crap(thats what it is) your spewing has been regurgitated to me and everyone here many times, and it hasn’t worked yet.
March 21st, 2008 at 9:44 am
Doing good deeds is admirable but it still doesn’t discount the fact that this person died for all. Of course you choose to not believe and will argue against it with all your will. We can do all the good deeds possible and be humane but at the end of the day we are called to belive in Christ. This is, of course a never-ending argument and would alwasy be because I would be praying and hoping for you to believe and you will keep your stance that you may not be a follower of Christ and still can live a good life. It hasn’t worked yet but people will be here always to urge you back. All I am is an extension of that voice. I won’t bother you anymore with arguments and again I pray for your salvation, even if you would have it not.
be well.
March 21st, 2008 at 9:52 am
If being a good person isn’t enough to make your god happy, and he/she will only like me if I worship them and their “son” jesus then I would rather not worship your god because they sound like an egotistical prick.
March 21st, 2008 at 9:54 am
Alas, but we are made in his image.
I am not judging whether or not you are a good person. I will guess that you are and intelligent and I hope that He reveals himself to you again one day.
March 21st, 2008 at 10:40 am
In post 84, Wrath of God says,
I have to laugh when I see that oft-repeated statement. If we are in fact made in the image of your particular god as you claim, then your god is either full of flaws himself (else why are humans so flawed; we are susceptible to diseases and aging, we have evolutionary remnants such as the appendix, and so on), or else the duplication process that created the image was flawed and the image is incorrect, in which case the creator itself is again imperfect, because, being supposedly omnipotent, the creator is responsible for that process. So either way, your god is very flawed, which contradicts other usual claims about it.
Christianity is a myth, nothing more. It is high time that humanity left it behind.
May 16th, 2008 at 7:44 am
Your Sick In The Head. Get A Life, Looser =S x
May 26th, 2008 at 10:29 am
If you believe “good” works are enough, then whatever you consider to be good will be enough.
A person can give 10 million dollars to charity but when he gets home, he gets drunk and starts to hit his wife.
A person may help his friend when he is in trouble, but can not care less about his own mum.
An employee can sing his boss’es praises in front of him, but behind his back, be bad-mouthing him.
Lastly, a person can lose his temper and shout, repent of it the next, lose his temper again the next day and cause some drama, repent of it again, lose his temper … and this can go on and on.
Jesus came to cleanse us of our sins, wash away the list of all our unrighteous acts, deliver us from our sinning ways, and lastly, to forgive us.
Ephesians 1:7: “In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, in accordance with the riches of God’s grace.”
Hebrews 9:22: “and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.”
1 Peter 1:19: “with the precious blood of Christ, a lamb without blemish or defect.”
And for everything to be in place, Jesus had to be perfect.
June 12th, 2008 at