In an attempt to annoy innocent subway riders and Jews all over New York, the Jews for Jesus organization launched a massive assault on common sense and decency. With a war chest of $1.4M for the month, the confused Jews purchased 42 illuminated panels in several subway cars and in the Times Square station. Although their choice in colors was respectable and quite nice I might add, many passengers weren’t pleased. Sarah Stevens from Brooklyn said, "Those people are so annoying, but I’d rather have these ads than have them stop me on the street." Not surprisingly, Jews didn’t warm up to the idea of accepting Jesus as their Messiah. Michael Miller, vice president of the Jewish Community Relations Council had the following to say…
If even one member of the Jewish community is enticed by these ads, that would be tragic.
I guess I’m a little confused over this whole issue. Ever since Jesus existed, Jews haven’t seen him as the Messiah. Then suddenly ~30 years ago, a fanatical group says otherwise? This just speak volumes for religion in general. They have absolutely no foundation for their message, yet thousands of people believe it. Now imagine 2000 years from now… it could be one of the most popular religions of that time. Yes I do have a point and it is this…
All the major religions have been around for a long time from several hundred to several thousand years. It is because of that time that these religions are perceived as real. If something has been around for hundreds of years then it must be real! Clearly people wouldn’t believe in something for so long if it weren’t true. And this is where I find this story interesting. If Jews for Jesus keeps preaching the same story for a long enough time, I think it has a good chance at going mainstream and being accepted.
After all, the main reason religion survives is that it is passed on from one generation to the next through parents to their kids. Kids grow up believing what they are taught and thus it continues unabated. Look at Santa Claus. Every kid in the universe believed in something so ridiculous because we were told to. The only reason we stopped is because we found the gifts in the closet or someone else let you in on the scam.
What do you think?
No related posts.
I firmly believe that a person of one religion should never attempt to dissuade a person of another religion from practicing thier faith. I don’t see a problem with encouraging someone to do research or open thier mind, but when it’s a “You’re wrong and I’m right” message, it sickens me.
That being said, I would personally think it’s better, if you must choose a religion, to choose one with ancient origins rather than something (relatively) new. I can understand how an ancient ritual or practice could be comforting.
I was talking to my husband today about religions, and how many have good intentions. Fundamental Christianity doesn’t quite make the grade however, including groups like “Jews for Jesus”. Perhaps because of American culture, the modern Christian church is steeped in greed, egoism, and a complete ignorance of what the idea behind the early Christian movement really was. Modern Christianity is either a business (to the leaders), or an ignorant, blind following (to the congregation).
It astonishes me how much time and effort many sects put into converting new members; as if they will “save themselves” by doing so.
Imagine how much better the world would be if the modern church put as much time, money and effort into helping others as they do helping themselves.
So, you’re saying that there is no Santa Claus?
You wrote:
“Ever since Jesus existed, Jews haven’t seen him as the Messiah. Then suddenly ~30 years ago, a fanatical group says otherwise?”
It’s a fact that all the first followers of Jesus were Jewish, so that’s a misstatement. So why shouldn’t Jews be allowed to believe in him today?
Hi, my name is DeDe, I work for Jews for Judaism (www.jewsforjudaism.org),a countermissionary organization that provides resources and education to Jews targeted for conversion to other religions. I found your blog through a technorati search on Jews for Jesus, and figured while I was here I’d respond to your questions. We’re tracking their “Behold Your God” campaign right now in New York, which will continue through the end of July. This campaign began in 2001 with the aim of targeting every city worldwide with over 25,000 Jews. Their basic goal is to use their deceptive and aggressive tactics of masking fundamentalist Christianity as “completed” Judaism to proselytize to as many Jews as possible through a variety of means. To clarify, we have no issues with freedom of religion or with Christianity. Our problem is with a lack of truth in advertising–the fact that Jews for Jesus uses Judaism as a guise to mislead Jews into converting to Christianity.
You can read all about the campaign here:
http://www.jewsforjudaism.org/web/byg/NewYork2006.html
For background on this issue, just visit our website or email nybyg@jewsforjudaism.org.
Thanks for stopping by DeDe and sharing that with us. What I would like to know is what is the motivation behind the Jews for Jesus in the first place? If they truly are Jews, why on earth would they want to convert Jews to what is essentially Christianity?
gasmonso
I totally agree with your assessment of ancient versus modern religions, as I have often wondered this myself.
Here’s an odd tract J4J informing Steve Jobs about Jesus. Weird. Although I’m sure Jobs will like the comparison.
http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/tract/evangelical-tract-says-says-ipod-guy-needs-jesus-186533.php
The need to recruit others is one of those divisive issues. It annoys everyone else, but some Christians claim to be directed by their god to do it. The lack of such evangelism is one of the reasons I have more respect for Judism and most Eastern religions.
The doorbell rang yesterday, so I threw on my “Thank God I’m An Atheist” T-shirt, just in case. Alas, it was only a neighbor.
I’m not sure why a Christian Jew is such a difficult concept to comprehend. I know a Messianic Jewish person and I’ve even attended a service held by Messianic Jewish people. It seemed to me that the people in the Messianic Jewish services were simply Jewish people who had come to believe in Jesus Christ as the Messiah, or non-Jewish Christians who had come to embrace the teachings of Judaism.
Christians and Jews already share a large portion of their belief in the Old Testament. It doesn’t seem so much a stretch, to me, for a Jewish person to have the thought, “Hey, maybe those Christians are right about Jesus” or for a Christian to have the thought, “Hey, maybe those Jewish people have the right idea with their practices and teachings.”
I have a few questions about your article:
1. Why do you consider the group of Jewish people who “30 years ago” decided to start believing in Jesus Christ as the Messiah to be “fanatical?” Is anyone of faith A who converts to or embraces a portion of faith B considered by you to be fanatical, or is there something else to it? (As an aside, the Messianic Jews for Jesus organization, started “~30 years ago,” did not originate the idea of Messianic Judaism. Wikipedia mentions that the Modern Messianic Movement began in 1880. Even further, the idea of a Jewish person believing in Jesus as the Messiah while still maintaining his Jewishness is as old as Jesus himself.)
2. How do Messianic Jews not have a foundation for their message? The way I see it, they have all the foundation for their beliefs that Jewish people and Christians have separately.
3. I’m not sure what to make of your “length of existence is all that matters when considering the validity of a religion” assertion. Am I missing something? Could you clarify what you mean for me, if you’ve got the time or inclination?
You said:
“What I would like to know is what is the motivation behind the Jews for Jesus in the first place? If they truly are Jews, why on earth would they want to convert Jews to what is essentially Christianity?”
I imagine their motivation to evangelize is similar to that of any other christian group; they believe that they have found something good that other people need and would benefit from, both in this life and in the next. And yes, that truly is the motivation for the majority of evangelicals I’ve known. Contrary to their popular characterization, they’re not trying to force people to their way of thinking because they get a kind of perverse thrill from doing so, they don’t hate people that believe differently than they do, and they’re not trying to build an empire of like-minded drones with which to take over the world. They simply and genuinely believe that Jesus Christ has improved their lives here and now and provided them a way to a pleasant eternity in the afterlife, and they dislike the idea of keeping what has been such a good thing in their lives to themselves; they view that as selfish, and thus evangelize. That said, I absolutely agree that a lot of evangelicals are annoying and needlessly confrontational. They can go screw themselves. :-) Also, I am completely ignorant when it comes to the ethics of J4J. If things are actually as DeDe and his/her organization say, and J4J’s tactics are deceptive and misleading, then they can go screw themselves too.
“Contrary to their popular characterization, they’re not trying to force people to their way of thinking because they get a kind of perverse thrill from doing so, they don’t hate people that believe differently than they do, and they’re not trying to build an empire of like-minded drones with which to take over the world.”
If this is true, and I hope it is, they had better start publically opposing the political actions taken in their name and reclaim their respectability.
Of course, this works both ways. I’ll admit I’ve met more than my share of asshole atheists.
Gasmonso writes:
> What I would like to know is what is the motivation
> behind the Jews for Jesus in the first place? If they
> truly are Jews, why on earth would they want to convert
> Jews to what is essentially Christianity?
Because it *is* Christianity, with different marketing. The J4Js don’t want to scare away their ‘marks’, so they swindle them by convincing them that what is the effective difference between Judiasm and Christianity isn’t really there.
I don’t have a problem with Christians trying to spread their religion and their “good news” — it is part of many of their (Big c) Churches to actively proselytize. What burns my buns is the deception: “Sure, you can be both X and not X at the same time…”
While Jews for Jesus may be only 30 years old (I don’t really know it’s age, just going on what was posted), the concept of converting out of Judaism is nothing new. Famous jews have converted to all religions. (One even claimed to be the Messiah, and a few years later converted to Islam!)
UncleMidriff-
It is widely held among jews that so called “Jews for Jesus” really aren’t jews. The messiah is one of the fundamental concepts of Judaism, and anyone who believes that the messiah has already come to earth really has some conflicts with Judaism. The messiah is said to bring peace and reverence to the land of Israel and a host of other great things that 2,000 years of history clearly prove Jesus did not bring. There are also many inconsistancies with Jesus being messiah (He doesn’t fit in with the definition of a Messiah. For more information, consult the Torah or google)
most famous jew for Jesus?? paul, aka saul of tarsus.. the same guy who wrote a great portion of the new testament.. as a matter of fact, the whole new testament was written by jews.. lets practice some intellectual honesty please.
to the “jews” posting their comments.. please first define what a jew is before you say you cant be X and Y at the same time.. jew is a word that basically means, “descendant of judah”. if you use a different definition, such as anything to do with religion, then be aware that chassidic jews might not consider you a jew either, as would an orthodox jew.. so you are forced to acknowledge you are not a jew.. (ps, i have a great love for jews.. but a great dislike for people not being honest)
deletedsoul:
“I firmly believe that a person of one religion should never attempt to dissuade a person of another religion from practicing thier faith. I don’t see a problem with encouraging someone to do research or open thier mind, but when it’s a “You’re wrong and I’m right†message, it sickens me.”
much like evolutionists do? if you research it up, again, being intellectually honest, you are forced to admit that evolution is not science, but rather a religion, believing in a different set of myths started by the greeks years before Jesus walked the earth.. they are also responsible for the terracentric view of the world (which later influenced the catholic worldview) (which is against what the bible says, by the way) and for stuff like neo-darwinism, which leads to genocide all over the globe (read up on hitler.. remember him?)
quit being so hypocritical.. fine, so you dont agree with christianity, big deal, saul of tarsus was killing christians looong before nero came along to use them as living garden candles.. you are not the first, but please please just be intellectually honest with your position, admit your faults, and dont make stuff up about the other group you are criticizing just because you happen to not agree.. _set the example if you really are that much better!_
oh and before i click on submit, theres a difference between a nominal christian and a christian as the bible defines it, much like you can have a democrat that votes republican.. if you say one thing, and act contrarily, where do you stand? and if you choose exactly these people to be the examples of that christianity you attack, then you are not being honest, you are just fishing for reasons to criticize..
Kevin says: “It is widely held among jews that so called “Jews for Jesus†really aren’t jews. The messiah is one of the fundamental concepts of Judaism, and anyone who believes that the messiah has already come to earth really has some conflicts with Judaism.”
I just had to re-emphasize this point. Being a Jew, in the religious sense, essentially means that you do not believe that the messiah has already come and gone and will come again. Believing that he has come, rose, will come again, makes you a christian.
insaner points out that the word jew in one sense doesn’t necessarily mean the same thing in another sense. Well I think we all agree that we’re all talking about jews in a religious sense. Meaning, those that count themselves as part of the religion that does not believe the messiah has come! So, that’s a bit of a non-issue in my opinion.
Speaking strictly from a logical point of view, how can someone be a jew AND a christian. Sure, one can say they are a christian and celebrate jewish traditions. but that person has to evaluate themselves, their actions, and their beliefs, because jewish traditions are such that they deny that the messiah has come. thats what the jewish religion is! nobody can deny that. That’s what makes jews, jews. How can you say you’re a christian AND a jew. You would then be contradicting everything BOTH religions stand for.
FYI, I guess if you feel the need to, you can call me agnostic. I don’t believe there is any way to PROVE the existence of a god. I believe it’s a lot of feelings and passed down beliefs. I like the analogy of santa clause, i think thats in the coments to a post about jesus camp. Just because you’re told it’s true, by some people doesn’t mean it is. I’m a scientist and mathematician. I want proof. I’m also a humanist. I think that people have the power and the obligation to make themselves be whatever they feel the need or desire to be; good, bad, or indifferent.
Oh, and, as for evolution being a religion, like insaner says. I’m sorry, but the work that Darwin did in collecting SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE and proving it using more SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE is NOT a religion! IT’S SCIENCE!!!! Myths are not supported by evidence that has been reviewed by countless scientists over decades. Thats why their myths! Oh and, neo-darwinism leads to genocide huh? Um no.
This whole discussion all depends on how you define Judaism. Judaism is a bizarre blend of nationality and spirituality and resists simple categorization. It is a gross oversimplification to boil things down to the issue of the Messiah. That is one (general) difference, but there are many variations of belief even within Jewish and Christian communities. Messianic Jews are merely another permutation of two very closely-linked faiths.
A few comments:
“I firmly believe that a person of one religion should never attempt to dissuade a person of another religion from practicing thier[sic] faith. I don’t see a problem with encouraging someone to do research or open thier mind, but when it’s a “You’re wrong and I’m right†message, it sickens me.”
This is the essence of all advertising. The point of advertising is to get other people to think the way you want them to think. Whether your goal is to get them to drink Pepsi, vote Republican, or switch away from Judaism, it is all the same thing. To me, it’s absolutely disgusting that we allow our world to be polluted with ads, but some people apparently feel differently. Ads with religious intent are fundamentally no different than those with economic intent. Both are generally attempts to irrationally alter your way of thinking.
Really, the only difference between the Christians and the Jews is that the Christians recognize any and all events referring to Jesus and so on as the work of their god as opposed to some guy who, for all his good points, pissed off the Romans and ended up getting his hands and feet nailed to a “t.”
As someone who was born and raised Jewish (and now is effectively agnostic) in a town that had MAYBE 15 kids in my grade in high school that were Jewish out of 350, I learned a lot about how the two religions coincide. Beyond the whole Jesus thing, the basis for the two religions (Islam too) are basically the same.
If you have a more right winged group of people who are in charge of the specific house of worship in question, the trend still applies.
The more a clergyman attempts to identify the differences between the two religions, the more he proves the similarities between them.
There are plenty of nut jobs on either side, but in the end, the difference comes down to whether or not they pray to one god or three (trinity etc…).
Completely Off topic, i know… but a reply to Starla’s Darwin comments:
ORIGIN OF LIFE – Why do textbooks claim that the 1953 Miller-Urey experiment shows how life’s building blocks may have formed on the early Earth — when conditions on the early Earth were probably nothing like those used in the experiment, and the origin of life remains a mystery?
DARWIN’S TREE OF LIFE – Why don’t textbooks discuss the “Cambrian explosion,” in which all major animal groups appear together in the fossil record fully formed instead of branching from a common ancestor — thus contradicting the evolutionary tree of life?
HOMOLOGY. – Why do textbooks define homology as similarity due to common ancestry, then claim that it is evidence for common ancestry — a circular argument masquerading as scientific evidence?
VERTEBRATE EMBRYOS. – Why do textbooks use drawings of similarities in vertebrate embryos as evidence for their common ancestry — even though biologists have known for over a century that vertebrate embryos are not most similar in their early stages, and the drawings are faked?
ARCHAEOPTERYX. – Why do textbooks portray this fossil as the missing link between dinosaurs and modern birds — even though modern birds are probably not descended from it, and its supposed ancestors do not appear until millions of years after it?
PEPPERED MOTHS. – Why do textbooks use pictures of peppered moths camouflaged on tree trunks as evidence for natural selection — when biologists have known since the 1980s that the moths don’t normally rest on tree trunks, and all the pictures have been staged?
DARWIN’S FINCHES. – Why do textbooks claim that beak changes in Galapagos finches during a severe drought can explain the origin of species by natural selection — even though the changes were reversed after the drought ended, and no net evolution occurred?
MUTANT FRUIT FLIES. – Why do textbooks use fruit flies with an extra pair of wings as evidence that DNA mutations can supply raw materials for evolution — even though the extra wings have no muscles and these disabled mutants cannot survive outside the laboratory?
HUMAN ORIGINS. – Why are artists’ drawings of ape-like humans used to justify materialistic claims that we are just animals and our existence is a mere accident — when fossil experts cannot even agree on who our supposed ancestors were or what they looked like?
EVOLUTION A FACT? – Why are we told that Darwin’s theory of evolution is a scientific fact — even though many of its claims are based on misrepresentations of the facts?
http://www.discovery.org/csc/
Hello Surge,
You are asking these questions in the wrong place. These are questions to pose to evolutionary biologists. As scientists, they are required to consider all credible critiques and revise or replace a theory as necessary. In fact, evolutionary theory is continuously being revised in light of criticism from other biologists. Many of the questions you asked have probably already either been shown to be non-credible or resulted in an amended theory. That is the beauty of the scientific method.
Also, linking the Discovery Institute is a perfect way to destroy any scientific credibility. If you look up quotes by the leading members of the institute, you’d find that they are using anti-evolution as a wedge issue to undermine naturalism and replace it with Christian values.
William Dembski, a major contributor in the Discovery Institute said “Intelligent Design should be viewed as a ground clearing operation that gets rid of intellectual rubbish that for generations has kept Christianity from receiving serious consideration.†Any quest for knowledge that rules out the possibility of results that conflict with faith is not science.
This quote was from an internal document leaked in 1999, “The social consequences of materialism have been devastating. As symptoms, those consequences are certainly worth treating. However, we are convinced that in order to defeat materialism, we must cut it off at its source. That source is scientific materialism. This is precisely our strategy”
Thus the Discovery Institute is patently anti-scientific and they should not be taken seriously as credible critics.
I’d like to take this opportunity to say that I like how this discussion is going. It seems like most of you here really are trying to figure things out, not just bash everyone else, with exceptions…Starla. I am a Messianic Jew (NOT a Jew For Jesus. I Grew up Jewish, but also do believe Yeshua (Christ) was indeed the messiah) so obviously i disagree with you when you say…
“jewish traditions are such that they deny that the messiah has come. thats what the jewish religion is! nobody can deny that.”
Well Starla, one can, and I do. How can you say that? Judaism is an incredibly rich, vibrant religion based in a belief in God and the laws he gave us, NOT a belief that the messiah has not yet come. In no way does it exclude the possibility of a Messiah having already come and that he will return again. By your definition, when the Messiah comes, we Jews will all cease to be Jews! It doesn’t sound like you have explored the core of the religions you are speaking of. Seriously, I’m astounded that you can make such a statement. I hope to respond more fully later, and to some other posts, but simply don’t have the time right now.
peace,
Daniel
P.S. I’m not impressed with the J4J signs either, and J4J does seem to me like a guise to completely convert Jews to Christianity, which I do not believe is necessary, or even right. Especially, considering the commands Jews believe God gave to them when it comes to keeping Jewish religious law (i.e. celebrating passover).
Apparently the Bronx is running out of Jews. I was at Yankee Stadium the other day and all the annoying Jews for Jesus wack-jobs handing out “literature” outside the ballpark were Chinese!
It is not the least bit surprising that most of the readers and responders to this site want to live in a “gray area”. Right and wrong are not relative. You live in what seems to be a comfort zone but what it boils down to is the fact the you’re scared of the truth. I am a born-again believer in Jesus Christ. If I met one of you I wouldn’t come at your crazy eyed and waving a Bible. But you can rest assured that I would most likely talk with you about Christ. By the way, I’m a great listener too. Every person is a fanatic about something wether it’s movies, actors, sports, books, nature, hobbies… So why is it that the only time it seems to be wrong to be a fanactic is when it relates to God? If what I firmly believe in and have experienced to be true is proved to be wrong then I will be fine but if what you are pushing: No God, Faith in Yourself, proves to be wrong then you’re in a world of trouble. There is heaven, there is hell and you are choosing to end up in one of those places for eternity. “For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotton son that whosoever believeth in him should not perish but have everlasting life.”
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J4J went ‘mainstream’ a long time ago. Their religion is commonly known as Christianity.
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