If you’re a child in New Zealand, start running because Family Integrity is after your little behind. Fed up with the government intervening in a parent’s right to beat smack their children, Family Integrity, a Christian organization, has taken the offensive. Their goal is to put child abuse smacking in a positive light and clear up any misconceptions that one may have.
You see, spanking is not some hateful, archaic form of discipline to make up for a parent’s lack of parental skills. No, actually quite the opposite is true. Family Integrity see’s spanking as something quite different.
Spanking is an expression of love, commitment and responsible parenting toward the child’s best interests.
Family Integrity has even put together a nice little guide to smacking your evil little heathen. It’s in a nice compact wallet-size so you can take it anywhere! All this talk about smacking is getting me excited. Time to go find my oldest and put this to the test. I think it’s time to go ‘express my love’ for a good 10 to 15 minutes! Praise be to God!
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gasmonso,
I’m not sure of either of those things. I’m making a calculated assumption.
Liberals, generally, have a negative view of any organized Christian religion. Liberals also are, generally, against any physical disciplining of children (usually due to their anti-violent ideology). In addition, a picture of a beat-up kid is posted with the story in an attempt to over-exaggerate the story and falsely persuade people with such out of context visuals. The article is about “smacking,” not punching or beating. Smacking clearly wouldn’t produce the results depicted in the picture.
If you don’t classify yourself as a Liberal, there is no doubt that you have viewpoints and methods that coincide with those that are classified as Liberals.
Shaze,
Of course, we shouldn’t “beat everybody.” In the context of terrorists, or anyone else for that matter, we should use violence against those that have or will use violence against us. In the context of children, animals, and others that can’t understand any other way, violence serves as the final communication tool.
sidfaiwu,
There is no middle ground in dealing with terrorists. If it wasn’t apparent before, 9/11 and other such cowardly attacks should have taught all peoples of civilized societies this painful yet obvious lesson. There is no doubt that 9/11 awakened a war that was building up for several years. Now that we are in wartime, we should expect to make some reasonable sacrifices to ensure victory. At the same time, there definitely should be equally reasonable limits and oversight to these sacrifices and they should never become permanent.
Once again, I refuse to accept your apologistic tactics. Since you see the issue as only black and white and will not even consider compromise I am done discussing the issue with you.
No punishment is viable if the person doesn’t know what they are doing wrong. My parents spanked me, but we only had 4 rules in the house too. Don’t do anything dangerous, distructive, disrespectful, or dishonest. If it was one of those 4 things, we were told “That’s $ruleName, you can’t do that.” If we did it, then we were punished, be it grounding, spanking, timeout. Therefore, since I knew the rules, when I broke them, I got punished and there was no confusion. When there is confusion, multiple rulesets, and conflicting standards, then punishment fails because they don’t know what they’re being punished for, whether they be children or adults.
i think ur commet were plain shit
All Human made laws including that against spanking are disastrous. Man should look unto his creator, YAHWEH for proper guidance. Word of the living God(Bible) alone stand as a rock.
ph12345ilip@yahoo.com
S.Philip
“All Human made laws including that against spanking are disastrous.”
That’s nice S.Philip. Now do you have evidence to prove your as-of-now unsupported declarative?
“Word of the living God(Bible) alone stand as a rock.”
Alone? What about the Torah, the Bhagavad Gita, the Qur’an, and all the other ‘words of God(s)’?
We live in a world today that kids are running amok and this is the direct result of discipline being taken out of the parents hands. Kids today KNOW if they do something wrong they have nothing to fear as a consequence of their actions. I see kids swearing, disobeying, even hitting their own parents because there is nothing now preventing them. Kids today don’t even worry about the legal problems they are getting into because we’ve encouraged our children to make excuses for their bad behavior, i.e. learning disabilities, etc..Now instead of our kids understanding that their inappropriate actions could get them in trouble, they know if we spank them to get them back in line WE the parents are the ones who have to answer to the law. Spare the rod, spoil the child is still true even to this day…
Every generation says something about the sorry state of ‘kids these days’, but place the cause of the ‘problem’ differently. It’s also almost invariably used to justify harsher punishment tactics.
Almost all claims of this kind are anecdotal, which have a couple of problems. First, there is very little basis of comparison. The average adult has only seen about 2 or 3 generations of children. Two or three data points do not make a reliable trend. Second, people tend to become more conservative with time. Thus things they find shocking or offensive today did not seem so when they were children. Thus they are now noticed things today that they probably considered normal as kids. The effect is that kids today seem to be worse than ‘when I was young…’.
I’m not sure how old Christine is, but youth crime is way down since the time when I was a teenager in the early nineties. From this I conclude that ‘kids these days’ are less of a problem than ‘when I was young’.
As A chils myself, reading this was very disturbing!
I am doing a Literacy project and came among this!
I am against smacking, and i didn’t know it was also called spanking!
I thought that was to do with other subjects.!
That article is sick.
I desagree completely.
You, my ‘friend’ are an idiot after all.
The problem is NOT because parents don’t punish their children hard enough. It’s because they are neither consitent in punishment, nor rewarding of good behaviour. If you want your kids to live a ‘good’ live, do you truly want them to do so because of fear of a beating? or would you preferr it if they simply knew it was the proper to be?
If you tell a child why he/she shouldn’t do something, and praise him for doing the right thing, it’s a lot more effective then punching him for not comprehending your every word.
Isn’t that the fault of said parents? It’s pretty damn easy just dropping your kids in front of the TV and doing what ever you want. If people tried actually RAISING their kids, instead of just providing food and shelter, the problem would be solved.
Are you truly incapable of thinking of any other punishment? Or is it that you’ve let it last to long and that smacking is the only way out? How would you like to recieve a beating for every red light you run and for every time you speed, would that be ‘fair’ in your eyes?
YOU THE PARENT should have tought them that inapropriate behaviour could get them in trouble. YOU SHOULD BE THE TROUBLE!
if you never teach your kids what they can and cannot do when they are little (READ: when you’re still the absolute boss of them) how in fucks name do you expect them to know? Should the information magically have popped into their heads?
Hillary,, you’re right at first sight but…
Don’t you think that a slap, NOT a beating, should be allowed? I’m all for making hitting illigal, but not bothering with the law to much.
meaning, if you just gave your child a smack because you’ve warned him a dozen times allready you shouldn’t go to jail or anything. But if you beat him up, you should.
As some people don’t understand, it is possible to positively raise a child. The same people don’t do a lot of parenting themselves either. I think smacking is something you have to do to teach a child you can’t talk to, because he/she is to young, or because you are a bad parent. Smacking is what parents do when they let their children pick up a habit that they shouldn’t have.
It’s the parent’s fault for having to hit their kids. If they actaully spend some time raising their children, teaching right from wrong and what is, or is not acceptable, instead of just dropping them outside, or in front of a TV/computer, there wouldn’t be so many “kids running amok”
Well it turns out I am in agreement with incognito. Hitting isn’t okay in today’s society if your an adult/ Why should it be okay to hit someone who is small and cannot defend themselves>? It is the easy thing to do at the time. It is for lazy parents who don’t want to take the time to think and use the mind they were given and the heart that beats within them to teach their children right from wrong.
It is also easy to stand up and be pro spanking after you have already raised and hit five children like the guy above. It is too risky to admit to one’s self that after all these years, they may actually indeed have screwed up.Spanking, hitting in general may actual be violence and therefore wrong. Christ, is there not enough violence already do children really need more at home? Hug your children. Love them for fucksake, thay may be gone tomorrow. Life is too short for this bull shit.
I was RAISED in New Zealand AND im Catholic..Ur “article” and “title” are misleading and state A LOT OF WRONG STUFF..do some reasearch dip-shit before you slander religions and countries..
wow …… you know how disturbing that picture is you are HORRABLE people!!!!!!!! >:(
you people are sick. I have two neices and to think of ever doing that to them ? NO! that aint right and a child should never be treated that way . I hope you people rot in hell for all i care .
Gasmonso ;
your a fucking retard . beating your kid is the worst thing you could ever do .
GET A LIFE AND STOP, cause you know you CAN go to jail evantually for that .
(JUST TO LET YOU KNOW)
do you think beating kid is going to solve anything ? ANOO.
Now you, Gasmonso stop sending comments I think I scared you away, you chicken. You only hit kids because there to weak to fight back so you get pleasure cause they are the only people you can hit cause your the weaklin yourself. you probably got abused when you were little… makes no right for you to hit others.
any comments?… didn’t think so
any comments?… didn’t think so.
copied from the above article, “Spanking is an expression of love, commitment and responsible parenting toward the child’s best interests.”
i think Korgan needs a spanking, okay.
Spanking is good and everyone needs a good spanking. if we do it out of anger and do it, not in love, you and i have missed the mark in biblical aspects.
if you know scripture you will see it everywhere. spanking comes in many forms in discipline and businesses use it all the time. do you feed a new born solid food?(in you mind right know, you’re thinking i’m and idiot) you get the point, though.
in maturity you are disciplined accordingly and it hurts no matter what. but let us do it in love so they don’t make the same mistakes in their life as they grow up.
In-Christ alone i place my trust and the WORD of my Lord and Saviour is the begining of knowlege and wisdom.
Prov.1:7-10
The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction. My son, hear the instruction of thy father, and forsake not the law of thy mother:For they shall be an ornament of grace unto thy head, and chains about thy neck. My son, if sinners entice thee, consent thou not.
All this talk about smacking is getting me excited. Time to go find my oldest and put this to the test. I think it’s time to go ‘express my love’ for a good 10 to 15 minutes! (copied from the article)
Oh yeah really with love right, hyrocket! the ‘express with love’ means ‘…’ haha noo love!!!
so don’t freak out with bible verses on me!
Spanking shows kids that there are negative and unpleasant repercussions to improper behavior. Standing in the corner is an annoyance, but it is soon forgotten. People fear pain. Fear prevents deviation from a code of behavior. All of those silly little religions are based on fear of hell. It’s works for thousands of years. Problem with the penal code in most first world countries is they have taken the fear out of punishment. Go to prison, get free health care, free food, free cable, free access to a library, free workout areas, and no need to work for anything. Bring back public caning, the stocks, and all the gory and horrific executions of old. We are far to civilized for our own good. So, smack your kids all you want, just don’t leave bruises.
yeah, MarcDLS so you don’t have proof so you don’t have to go to jail right?
that’s just like saying Commit murder just don’t leave blood!! >:(
That’s is an asinine analogy and only a foolish person would believe that is even remotely true. Not leaving bruises shows that the child was not hit hard enough to cause lasting bodily injury. This is something I would wager anyone with an average IQ would realize. You, obviously, fall below this category.
Buttmunchhhhh said,
post 67
“Gasmonso ;your a retard . beating your kid is the worst thing you could ever do.”
post 72 “All this talk about smacking is getting me excited.”
post 66 “you people are sick. I have two neices and to think of ever doing that to them ? NO!”
i see why you don’t spank and that is a really good reason not to spank.
Buttmunchh, calling Gasmonso a retard is really retarded. Gasmonso supports your point of view, that’s why he put the article up. So, really you’re the retard, ahaha, that’s funny. Butmunchhh, you made a crack and didn’t even know it.
You are missing the point of spanking and MarcDLS mentions part of solution “Spanking shows kids that there are negative and unpleasant repercussions to improper behavior.” I feel there is also safety issue at hand, that Gasmonso knows very well, disobedience.
Disobedience to an order or demand can get you killed. What would you rather have Buttmunchhh, spanking that hurts a little on your bumbum or be seriously hurt or even killed?
Don’t get me wrong, kids need to find out what pain is on their own, if they choose to do it their way but with the guidence of a loving parent.
“Oh yeah really with love right, hyrocket! the ‘express with love’ means ‘…’ haha noo love!!!”
Yes with love Buttmunchh not with ANGER. In love and you tell them why you are spanking them and spank them according to their state of maturiy, every child is different. Spank your child in anger and the lesson will not be learned and they will harden their hearts to you.
Isaiah 53:6
All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the Lord has laid on him the iniquity of us all.
Buttmunch, we have all gone astray and we have all gone our way. Our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ is our Father In heaven who gives us the life and the truth and has taken our iniquity of us all.
MarcDLS said, “All of those silly little religions are based on fear of hell.”
I give you Our Lord and Savour Jesus for it is a relationship that He will lead you into righteuosness and not a silly little religion of fear but the Life and Hope that set us FREE from this fear.
Hope you guys have a great weekend.
We raised 2 kids that were never hit and were children that any parent would be proud to have. Today they are honorable, upstanding adults also.
I do not believe that children need to be hit or should be hit. Hitting children teaches them that hitting is the way to deal with problems. Not to mention that I cannot understand how a parent could willingly hurt their child.
Instead of hitting we made rules and never wavered from them. If one of them was told to not do something or they would spend the rest of the day in their room – or whatever the punishment was – there was no “don’t do that again” and “I’m warning you” over and over. Instead they went straight to their rooms on the first offense, and believe me a day in their room or in more serious cases in their room without permission to play was enough to ensure good behavior. There was also grounding and loss of other privileges as punishment. Perhaps surpisingly to some, we had far fewer discipline problems than parents who hit.
By the way, I’m glad someone finally explained to buttmunch that he got the intent of the post all wrong. Do people not read before they comment?
10 to 15 minutes spanking? oh really cause thats soooo much love. leave butmunchh alone hes got a point.
obviously not, rucker because you and hyrocket got my perspective all wrong 10 -15 minutes of spanking is not with love. And if I’m the retard for calling Gasmonso a retard, you hyrocket, is the retard for calling me a retard. Also if spanking is the child’s best interest why don’t they ask for it? I bet you can’t answer that! and you don’t need to hit the child my three little sisters get put in the corner all the time trust me they learn their lesson! and no that really wasn’t all that funny, hyrocket are you a seven year old? and yes I do think that kids deserve to be spanked sometimes, maybe once in a while but NOT constantly for 10 -15 minutes! are you people crazy you would agree with Tammy Smith and burn the word ‘wimp’ into a kids neck for crying!
buttmunch – it is obvious from your posts that you either cannot read or do not read the actual posts people write.
Buttmunch, i understand your point and everyone has their style of raising their children and my style or anyone else is not yours. You know your kids and I am sure you love them a lot to make a comment against this style of discipline. concerning that 10-15min is really long, i have to agree with you and the country of New Zealand is different to the United States. here is a website i believe is related to this article
http://tvnz.co.nz/view/tvone_minisite_story_skin/995128
look at…
Corporal punishment
Drury Christian School Principal Ron Bagrie explained
you said, “Also if spanking is the child’s best interest why don’t they ask for it?”
honestly, they won’t ask for it and i certainly would not ask for a spanking, too. and i appreciate you for standing against abuse towards kids and putting discipline in the parents hands which should be handled in a responsible manner that children need to obey their parents.
Hey Buttmunch have you been talking to Korgan, me being a retard?!
I think the 10-15 minute process is a summary of talking to the child prior to and after the smacking. It’s poorly worded, but in all seriousness no sane person expects to spank a kid 10-15 minutes. As far as Buttmunchhhhh’s comment about “if spanking is the child’s best interest why don’t they ask for it,” why would a child ask for any sort of punishment? You continue to demonstrate your ignorance. I can’t believe you had the audacity to reproduce. The only thing you could do for society, at this point, is to remove yourself from the gene pool.
thank-you someone finally understands
“I do not believe that children need to be hit or should be hit. Hitting children teaches them that hitting is the way to deal with problems. Not to mention that I cannot understand how a parent could willingly hurt their child.”
Precisely!
I did considerable reading before becoming a parent about psychology, statistics, brain pysiology and various social studies related to raising children (hell, what can i say, im a sucker for research, evidence and the latest and greatest understandings, lol!) and all the latest research says that smacking children is NOT good for them and does NOT teach them WHY what they are doing is wrong, it only serves them to work out how to avoid getting caught so as to avoid getting hit again. it also teaches them that violence is an acceptable way of getting what you want.
Could one make the same argument for ANY form on punishment? It makes no sense to say that it only applies to spanking. Fact is, every 5 or 10 years they come out with a different way to “best” raise kids. It’s simply a matter of opinion as to what is best for that individual child.
As a professing Christian I cannot say that I agree with giving a child a beatdown like Mike Tyson or Rodney King, however I do agree with need to discipline a child with spanking. No! I’m not a fanatic but in Christianity the sole authority in this discussion for me is the Bible. If a person doesn’t believe the Bible I sincerely don’t expect them to be able relate.
The aim should then be aimed at discrediting the Bible to really get any where. In the Bible the wisest man (except Jesus) is King Solomon who wrote Proverbs, where it says;
“Pro 13:24 Whoever refuses to spank his son hates him, but whoever loves his son disciplines him from early on. “
“Pro 23:13 Do not hesitate to discipline a child. If you spank him, he will not die.”
These are just two quotes, in here its quite clear not referring to a beatdown with the aim to inflict serious life threatening spanking. It also refers to the quote by the in the article sarcastically referred to as family integrity.
I hope you can see that the real uphill struggle is not with the people who are committed to the Bible but with the Bible, for if you can convict them that the Bible is a farce then getting them to stop spanking their kids is easy.
Fa-real
“Could one make the same argument for ANY form on punishment? It makes no sense to say that it only applies to spanking. Fact is, every 5 or 10 years they come out with a different way to “best” raise kids. It’s simply a matter of opinion as to what is best for that individual child.”
Thats what science and evidence based research is all about – its not like things change by swinging back and forth – its a constant improvement based on all the known information at the time. 100 years ago the general consensus on child rearing was ‘seen and not heard’, extremely authoratarian/disciplinarian and giving severe beatings – we have come a long way since then and no doubt will continue to.
And yes – its no secret that incarceration is no deterrent for crime, nor is it based on rehabilitation – its about punishment first and foremost.
“I’m not a fanatic but in Christianity the sole authority in this discussion for me is the Bible.”
Again, if you prefer to take advice from a bronze age book over all the accumulated parenting knowledge we have acquired since then, then thats your perogative. Frankly, i want to know what ACTUALLY works to make my children grow up as mentally healthy, happy and good people who make their decisions in life based on a healthy respect for others rather than fearing beatdowns or even ONLY guided by some weird fear going to hell.
Jayman, the fearing committed talks about is a good type of fear. discipline can be applied in different forms but spanking in love needs to be given credit.
knowing you based on what i read you don’t like spanking. I understand the love you have for your girls but is it love to make them do things they want to do and if you tell them not to do something for their safety, to an extent? i think kids need to get hurt and explained why they got hurt so understanding of obedience or disobedience has a consequence because you love them.
Look at that Proverb 13:24b “but whoever loves his son disciplines him from early on.”
Jayman, prayer is important part of this relationship and the bond with prayer either as a family, brother, sister, husband or wife is spiritually powerful in the love only prayer brings in Christ. Your girls will see the love that penetrates their soul you have for them and will thanks to you always, in everything they do in their life, when they leave home.
This is my response and i mean not to offend you but offer help-that’s all.
One more thing, you mention bronze, this metal is still good today even when it was first used.
Read your own proverbs passage – it says “disciplines” and nothing to do with striking. the two words are often used with the same meaning, however, they arent the same thing.
I can discipline without having to resort to violence, physical OR emotional, and get the same results (with arguably more respect from her too)
Yep, bronze is a useful material, iron and stone too both have a range of uses. We arent living in the bronze age anymore however, we’ve moved on in all aspects of life, science, technology, culture and philosophical/moral understanding.
The New Zealand people have voted on an anti-smacking law
http://familyintegrity.org.nz/2009/massive-no-to-anti-smacking-law-politicians-must-listen/
Thought I might comment on this as well because as I read the comments I see the misunderstanding on the smacking (not beating – big difference – find me I will show you the difference) for 10-15 minutes. Being a person who has disciplined my 3 children with a smack I know what this means.
Many a time I have sat down with my kids, at their eye level, and explained the situation. What was expected of them, how they behaved contrary to that expectation, what was the agreed punishment. This process can take a long time, sometimes the 10 minutes indicated. Discipline comes from a Greek word meaning “to train up”. This takes time.
So ‘yes’ the wording of Family Integrity’s little guide can be read one way. But if you do take time to discipline your children this phrase actually agrees with that practice as well.
A most interesting read these comments and a subject worth reading about.
Very informative post. I’ve found your blog via Bing and I’m really happy about the information you provide in your articles. Btw your sites layout is really messed up on the Kmelon browser. Would be great if you could fix that. Anyhow keep up the good work!
10-15 minutes process
“Some things are just plain humiliating and unnecessary: chastisement in public or the idea of pulling pants down to smack. Smacking may be a 10-15 minute process. Go to a private place, then fully discuss the crime. Ask the child to identify which of the four Ds was broken and to explain why he now needs a smack rather than a tongue lashing or isolation. Always give an opportunity to plead extenuating circumstances; be prepared to call in witnesses for cross examination; and if appropriate, DO NOT SMACK.”
Yes it seems it is a process…
Do non smacked/spanked children turn out better?
http://familyintegrity.org.nz/2010/some-kids-are-never-spanked-do-they-turn-out-better/
Do spanked adults on smack turn in better? OH, YES! http://sandm.com/2010/tiemeupandspankme/
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