A rather talented young Atheist named Zachery Kroger created a simple yet powerful video that it earning him a lot of attention and praise from the "Godless" community. I’d like to hear what my religious readers think of this video. If you’re going to comment, please note your faith if any. I think it’ll be interesting to see how opinions may or may not differ. Enjoy!
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I found the video to be interesting for two things: the statistics at the beginning about atheists, and the statistics at around 3:30 about atheists. Otherwise, it’s just a series of still images set to music of scientists, actors, muscians, etc., who happen to be atheist. I think many of the people pictured are interesting and/or important, but not less or more so than any person who believes in a religious tradition.
Being a social science researcher, I’d like to see a little more about the research before I draw any conclusions about whether atheists are less statistically likely to commit crimes or less statistically likely to get divorced. How did agnostics get lumped in with the atheists? Those are clearly different categories.
I’d also like to hear from someone who has a better understanding of the Bible, and hear a little more about the context of the verses cited. Although I think it’s fine to criticize religion (God knows it’s needed) it feels like there is a lack of critical thinking and it’s more saying, “Religious people are dumb because we have all these smart people who don’t believe in it.” The video feels like it’s taking something out of context and responding to it with flamebait.
But of course, I can be wrong. :)
Well, since you asked about my faith, you can put me down in teh Buddhist category. Not that I feel it is particularly relevent…
Anyway, I’m not sure who the intended audience of this piece was, but I hope is wasn’t something to convince religious fanatics to change their minds about atheists. Because if you ask me, the video played right into the stereotypes )and fears) that they have about atheists. Almost the “fools” the video presented were intellectuals and hollywood celebrities… exactly the kind of people the religious fanatics hate! The Bible isn’t saying that atheists are stupid. It is saying they are fools. There is a difference. Religious fundamentalists hate intellectuals. They hate Hollywood. They hate evolution. And they distrust science. The only possible redeeming atheist statistic was the population/prison ratio.
So what was the point of the video? I don’t get it.
-matthew
Wow,just wow.
(Atheist)
I have to agree with Matthew about the effectiveness. It’s a shame, it started out well. The series of celebrities left me wondering if it was a tongue-in-cheek thing made by a devout christian.
I am Buddhist, and I agree with Matthew about the use of the word ‘fool’ and the stereotypes.
Romanus,
While I appreciate your agreement, I’m afraid it is against the secret Buddhist policy to display any sense of solidarity in public, lest the Christians catch on to the fact that we are the ones behind the Great Atheist Conspiracy (GAC) to take over the world. So far we’ve remained below their radar. Nobody suspects the Buddhists, but we have to be careful. Is there anything we could disagree about? Perhaps we could bicker over the finer points of Theravada vs. Mahayana?
Agonist, He should have put Thomas Jefferson in there:
Question with boldness even the existence of a god; because if there be one he must approve of the homage of reason more than that of blindfolded fear.
-Thomas Jefferson, Letter to Peter Carr, August 10, 1787
Atheist
I can understand the need to try and explain one’s lack of belief — especially in the US. But Matthew is right — by definition, people of faith are not going to be convinced by fact. Faith is a feeling, facts and the lack of the same feeling in others will not change their minds or their beliefs.
I also agree that it would have been stronger without the actors — include Gates, Buffett, Twain, Susan B, but actors have little bearing (but hey Julianne Moore is even hotter to me now).
The only reference I could find on the prison stats:
http://www.holysmoke.org/icr-pri.htm
Hi,
I can’t understand the distrust in atheists in the US.
I have to say, I’m german.
Even our former chancellor Schröder renounced the additive sentence “by the help of god” in his swearing-in. Atheism is totally accepted here. I find it really sad, that it’s necessary to create such a movie to try to convince christians, that atheists aren’t that bad at all, in such a civilisized community as the US are.
But I can see, not every american is a christian fundamentalist :)
greetings from good old europe
-sebtob
please excuse my bad english
Christian, not that it’s relevant to the discussion.
Um. As Matthew touched on, it’s about context, and it’s about language shift:
A ‘fool’ is generally accepted to mean: one who lacks understanding (of the given subject), so in this case, one who doesn’t understand about the existence of a god, for whatever reason.
It’s about the difference between knowledge, intelligence and wisdom. ‘Fools’ in this contxt are people who lack wisdom (again, in context, not generally)
As has been said before: knowledge tells us a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom tells us not to put it in a fruit salad.
There’s also a glaring twist of phraseology between the bible quote at 3:40-45 and the wording of the fram at 3:46-47. Watch it again. Where does it say that anyone is “evil”? The word used is “vile”.
A tuna and chocolate spread sandwich might be vile, but it’s certainly not evil.
As for doing “no good”, again, think about the context: if you’re trying to get across a religious belief, right or wrong, someone saying your god doesn’t exist isn’t doing your cause any good, are they?
As the Bible states that God exists, people who say He doesn’t are doing “no good” as far as believers are concerned.
Also a lack of “good” doesn’t infer “doing bad”. Many people go through life without doing much of either.
Remember, “good” in this context can also be subjective: Microsoft has been taken to court many times over accusations of unfair conduct and monopolising, Woody Allen has been married 3 times, and had numerous affairs, which might be acceptable today, but would probably have got him killed when the psalms were being written.
I’m not saying that not one of them has done anything good, or that I discount the video on religious grounds, but why go to the effort of making the thing if you’re going to be inconsistent? Because someone like me is going to pull it apart.
It’s not well made, and while the statistics are interesting, the rest is misconstrued, and out of context.
Take all that away, and you’ve got a 5 minute video with a 10 second message about some statistics.
Oh, and I’m from England, by the way.
Gnostic
well nice enough show but too much faces without counter balance of christian scientist and actors and even if they are respected the faces on the clip there should be more factual data injected into it.
That is actually more a problem I have with a presentation but apart that nice, albeitly onesided, show.
I am a christian.
I take issue with the interpretation of Ecclesiastes 4:12 at around 3:17 into the video. While I’m sure that many christians interpret that verse to mean that “a relationship that includes God will be much stronger,” that marriages based on christian principles will be better than those not based on christian principles, that simply is not what the passage says.
Here is Ecclesiastes 4:7-12:
7 Again I saw something meaningless under the sun:
8 There was a man all alone;
he had neither son nor brother.
There was no end to his toil,
yet his eyes were not content with his wealth.
“For whom am I toiling,” he asked,
“and why am I depriving myself of enjoyment?”
This too is meaningless—
a miserable business!
9 Two are better than one,
because they have a good return for their work:
10 If one falls down,
his friend can help him up.
But pity the man who falls
and has no one to help him up!
11 Also, if two lie down together, they will keep warm.
But how can one keep warm alone?
12 Though one may be overpowered,
two can defend themselves.
A cord of three strands is not quickly broken.
Neither God nor marriage are mentioned in this passage, so while you might be able argue that the third strand referred to is God, saying that Ecclesiastes 4:12 says that christian relationships are stronger is incorrect.
I agree with the previous posters who say that the usage of “fool” in the Bible is different than our usage today. From the footnotes in the New International Version Bible:
“Psalm 14:1 The Hebrew words rendered fool in Psalms denote one who is morally deficient.”
So, in this verse, a fool is one who morally deficient. Since morals in the Bible are, not surprisingly, based on belief in the biblical God, then of course the Bible will consider not believing in God to be evidence of morally deficiency. However, this says nothing about the intelligence or skill of atheists in areas not involving Judeo-Christian-God-based morals. Saying “Hey look! The Bible says atheist people don’t have very much smart! Look at these atheists! They got lots of smart! Haha! I proved the bible is wrong!” is as mistaken as is irritating.
As for the divorce rate among christians being so high, I am ashamed of that. I believe the reason behind it may be that christian couples feel pushed into getting married, since it is “the right thing to do.” When they later figure out that they were merely infatuated with one another and that there was no real relationship there to begin with, they get a divorce. Atheists, not feeling the christian compulsion for marriage, are probably less likely to fall into that trap.
I liked the video, presentation-wise. The song was catchy and the editing, though simple, was well done. Anyone know what song is playing in the background?
Agnostic.
Hmmm. Video kind of stupid. I thought the idea was good, needed more statistics to support their claims.
Oh and on the interpretaion of vile as evil, perhaps they did a pig-latinish thing by accident and moved the e from the end to the beginning?
I very much enjoyed the video. It suprised me to learn how many of my heros are atheists (though I think some of those pictured are actually agnositc). I also appreciate UncleMidriff’s comments. They really helped put the video into perspective. I also found the stats very interesting, but like most people, too few.
It seems to me that atheists are so mistrusted because most Christians cannot fathom morality without being told what is moral. In otherwords, without some authority to dictate moral laws, Chirstians can’t imagine how someone dicides for themselves what is right and wrong. The authority for Christians is (indirectly) God. Atheists have no god. Thus, according to Christian thought, they have no source of moral law and are, therefore, in danger of acting immorally. The fallacy is, of course, that morality can come from reason. One example of many is John Locke’s description of natural law. His natural laws eventually found their way into the fundamental freedoms that America was founded on.
Atheist. I agree with the comments that the video isn’t particularly helpful towards convincing fundamentalists; saying “We’ve got Woody Allen, how can we be wrong?” isn’t the best idea IMHO.
Strangely enough this reminds me of a conversation I had with an ex-girlfriend. She asked if I thought that she and another very intelligent friend of hers that I knew were fools because they believed in god. I asked if she thought I and another very intelligent friend of mine were fools because we did not. At the time I said nothing; now I think I would have told her that she was. Anyway, that was supposed to help illustrate the video’s flaw; I’m sure Christians/other faiths could pull out shit-tons of people in science and hollywood that support them. Maybe showing people that there are prominent atheists (though not necessarily the ones in this video) can lessen their distrust, but it’s not an argument against theism (at least, not a good one).
And the numbers on prison population are highly suspect to me. Not that I wouldn’t like them to be true. But 10% seems high for atheists in the US; checking the wiki says that 2% identified as atheist (4% agnostic) in a 2004 survey. And there was no ‘agnostic’ on the data shown at holysmoke.org. And who knows if atheist inmates might want to portray themselves as religious for various reasons… Anyway, the numbers are not from studies with similar methodologies AFAIK.
In any case, it’s likely not that atheists are somehow more moral that keeps the prison population low. I’d venture to guess that atheists in general are better educated (or maybe I should say that those with better education are more likely atheists) and that’s why there’s not as many in prison. But that’s just an idea; I don’t have any numbers to back it up.
EX-CHRISTIAN FUNDIE TURNED ATHIEST
I think it’s funny how Christians try to weasel around certain scriptures and say, “That’s not how you’re supposed to interpret it. THIS is how you interpret it.” As if they have some secret hotline to ‘god’. So, fool doesn’t REALLY mean fool. It just means someone without morals?? That’s just ridiculous. Webster’s Dictionary says:
Fool n. 1. A person lacking in understanding, judgement, or common sense.
Hmmm… sounds like most religious people. I hate to throw all you guys in one little box, but what common sense is there in believing in a big, invisible guy that we will NEVER have proof of existing. Why not believe in the tooth fairy and elves, too?
So, you say it just means morally deficent. Well, that would be addressed in the prison, divorce, etc. stats.
Oh yeah, the psalmist is in danger though, according to Jesus FUCKING Christ:
Matthew 5:22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.
But, I’m sure you Christians can dance around that one too.
About the Bill Gates thing — So, he was taken to court for blah, blah… He has donated over half of his fortune to various charities. More than I can say about any religious person I’ve ever met.
I DO think it was stupid to list Woody Allen… I mean, c’mon, he’s a fuckin’ pedophile. Hahaha. Oh yeah, and I don’t think Thomas Jefferson was an athiest. But what the fuck do I know, I’m a morally deficient athiest. Time to go rape some babies!
Atheist.
I think some of you are missing the point of the video. It is not to change people’s minds about their religious views, but rather to show them that atheists exists all around them and that some of them are doing great things in this world.
Including actors is useful because of their visibility and (right or wrong) we feel like we know them as compared to a total stranger. (Ok, I think Woody Allen is kinda creepy.) Most christians don’t hate actors, just the fever-pitched types that get all the publicity. This video is not so much for them.
Rather, it’s for the more “everyday” christians who apparently also distrust atheists. You have to ask yourself why, because it makes no logical sense. Maybe it’s because of our invisibility; they don’t know us. And to that end, I think the video is also meant to encourage atheists to come out of the closet and show the majority that we aren’t despicable people. We are ordinary humans with pretty much the same lives, struggles, etc. as they have.
Hopefully some day we can be as they are in Europe where no one would raise an eyebrow at the statement, “I’m an atheist.”
Bravo Angela! I agree 100%. This was not meant to be some mega-propaganda weapon to convert the masses. I believe it was a response to the general negative attitude towards Atheists. If a religious person walked away saying, “wow, I didn\’t know he was an Atheist” then it was a success in my opinion. Here\’s an article I reported on awhile back that references the study in the video… http://religiousfreaks.com/2006/03/23/atheists-are-americas-most-distrusted-minority/
I agree. The best thing that could happen to the bible,the koran and the talmud is that ALL of them be recyled into toilet paper to wipe off our smudge marks. Religioun is dubicous, hatefull, disgusting and destructive.
Adam
Hey people!
I am the guy who made this video… glad to see there is so much discussion about it! Although, I made a new version (its on youtube) that doesnt have einstein in it. Although I dont think einstein believed in any “god” in the supernatural sense, i got tired of defending that position, so i just replaced him.
But anyway, the point of this video isnt to try and convert anyone. As Phil Plait (author of Bad Astronomy) says, “it is foolish to think that emotion would be swayed by logic.” I mostly wanted to show that there are a LOT of smart people that are atheists.
The reason I put all the actors and whatnot is because unless you are interested in science, you arent going to know who ANY of those people are. So I put the actors so that people would see reccognizable faces. I have gotten a LOT of crap about Seth Green (cause honestly, who cares about what he thinks), but incredibly, quite a few christians have been amazed about him. He is popular with the younger crowds.
About the verses I used… they are not out of context at all. The only reason I know about the one concerning marriage is because it was brought up so much in church and youth group and that sort of stuff when I was a christian. If you type them in on google, you will find tons of sites proclaming exactly the same thing that I say they mean.
The main motivation I had for this video was my girlfriend of 3 years broke up with me because I didnt believe in God. Her family HATED me ONLY for that reason (im actually a really great guy haha). So… yeah. If you have any questions about anything though, go ahead and email me. Zachary_Kroger@yahoo.com
And here are some christians that agree with my context in case anyone was curious…
http://www.biblechurch.org/m/beyond_honeymoon/
http://www.trinitycrc.org/sermons/ecc4v07-12.html
http://www.spotlightministries.org.uk/atheism.htm
http://www.bible-sermons.org.uk/text-sermon/475-the-folly- of-atheism/
Christian. Not American.
I also didn’t see the point of the video, though I guess it makes sense when you see that atheists are a “distrusted minority”. I still can’t quite get my head around that particular piece of stupidity.
I do have to comment on what Jonny said about “weaseling around certain scriptures”. The bible was written in another time, over the course of several hundred years, in another place, for many different groups of people with many different issues to deal with, and in at least three different languages, none of them modern English.
The video seems to use the KJV, which was written almost four hundred years ago, and the language was considered slightly archaic even then.
Trying to understand what it means, let alone what it says, is hard. (The bible is not alone in this, of course; understanding Plato or Confucius is just as hard.) Picking words out of a four hundred year old translation and matching them up with a modern dictionary just plain doesn’t help.
Disclaimer: Not that there aren’t any reasonable objections to some of the stuff in the holy texts of most religions. Just please limit your objections to reasonable ones, not unreasonable ones!
There seems to be a lot of talk about how the word “fool” is taken out of context because it meant something different back when it was written. This may be true, but it doesn’t matter very much, because very few people know the original meaning offhand.
Most American Christians are not Bible scholars, or students of Etymology. When the typical person reads the bible, they don’t know that the original Hebrew word that was translated into English as “fool” doesn’t carry that exact meaning. It’s extra confusing, because elsewhere in the Bible, “foolish” is used in a traditional sense (see Matthew 7:26 … a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand.) I agree that “picking words out of a four hundred year old translation and matching them up with a modern dictionary just plain doesn’t help.” Unfortunately, that is something that most Christians (and Atheists) do, because most people are not scholars.
It’s a shame that people get persecuted for a misnomer, but I have personally had Psalm 14 quoted at me by ex-friends of mine when I left the church. They then explained that the Bible said that I was an “idiot” for leaving. Now I see that I should have said, “Actually, according to a footnote in a version of the Bible you don’t use, I’m not an idiot, I’m just morally corrupt.” I’m sure that would have smoothed things over.
I can usually appreciate the intellectual discussion about what the true meaning of words in the Bible are, but I can’t abide it when it’s about a something for mass consumption, like this video. We might as well be debating whether or not Alanis Morissette understands the word “ironic.”
I am puzzled with the divorce rates section. I would assume that more Christians do get married due to their belief where as Atheists also marry, but probably not as much, so then the percentage of Christians and born again Christians will always have a higher divorce rate? Argh, my head, I am confused, I hate statistics.
As was mentioned at the time, the NIV has a footnote that explicitly states “fool” in this verse means “morally deficient”, but here’s a link:
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Psalms%2014:1-7;&version=31;#fen-NIV-14082a
I’m no Bible scholar, exegesis is not my forte, and English is my only fluent language–so I’m going to take their word for it. I seriously doubt they’re just making shit up though (though you can hop over to http://www.av1611.org for another perspective on the NIV, among other things).
About the two are stronger than one, and three is even stronger–it’s a very generic message. I have no doubt that it CAN be applied to marriage (or that it has), but that interpretation is not explicit.
I’m not sure who this video’s target audience is. Anyone with a cursory knowledge of the Bible knows the “wisdom of the world” is not highly valued in christianity, so this is not going to make anyone say, “Well damn, I guess some smart people believe there’s no god, so my whole belief system is a farce.”
Coming from the middle of the Bible belt, raised christian (in church), and having attended a Baptist university, I think comment #13 hit the nail on the head about the effects of christian “culture” on marriage. The pressure to marry prior to the end of college is certainly there, and the results of that are pretty clear.
Regarding the quote by George Bush–they’re both idiots.
That said, I liked the video. I get some perverse pleasure from deriding stupidity, and lord knows there’s plenty to be found in most organized religions (hint: it’s because people are stupid, not religion). There are plenty of intellectuals on both sides of the divide, but that doesn’t make the message any less poignant or any less true.
Enjoyed execution and music. I second the request to know what song that was.
Oh, and I still count myself a christian, actually.
The song is “is this the real thing” by DJ Madson. You can download it off the “The God Who Wasn’t There” website. http://www.thegodmovie.com/cd.php
Also, about Psalms 14:1, I dont think it matters if people use it in the sense of fool meaning stupid or morally deficient. I havent heard anyone use it in the sense of it meaning morally deficient, but whatever the case, both interpretations make incorrect claims about atheists.
Actually I think there is a stronger argument to be made against the bible from the morally deficient perspective.
The target audience was… well, ME and my friends hahaha. My friends include other atheists and moderate/liberal christians. I never really expected it would get popular.
as a discordian:
The only thing I cannot understand about atheist is their need to _negate_ the existance of god. Sure god has beed used too many times to control people and justify atrocities, but we don’t know if he does exist or not. WE just can’t tell, and then decide on our own wether to believe in one (or to _believe_ there is not one) or just decide that we do not know enough (wich is what an agnostic does).
Heil Eris :)
Emme
>>27
Wouldn’t a person “less able to distinguish between right and wrong” also be a person “lacking in judgment or prudence” (a fool)? The word “fool” does not mean stupid. Either way you apply fool, I don’t see “book smarts”[1] entering the picture in interpreting this verse.
I see it being about common sense, and one’s “world view”. If you start off believing in god or not believing in god–either way, that’s part of your belief system. Your belief system affects every situation in your life. Every perception is shaded by it. So from the standpoint of christianity, a person lacking a core belief as critical as Jehovah is obviously going to make a lot of errors in the judgement and prudence departments. Thus, they act foolishly.
I think “fool” might be too colloquial of a word these days. Might we like the same verse taken from The Message version of the Bible better?
1 Bilious and bloated, they gas, “God is gone.”
Their words are poison gas,
fouling the air; they poison
Rivers and skies;
thistles are their cash crop.
(from http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Psalm%2014:1;&version=65;)
—
[1] The third accepted definition listed for “fool” by Merriam-Webster was the only one that sounded even sort of like the “one who lacks understanding (of a given subject)”:
“3 a : a harmlessly deranged person or one lacking in common powers of understanding b : one with a marked propensity or fondness for something ”
but taken altogether, I read that definition as “mostly harmless” (aren’t we all). There’s certainly an element of absurdity to it.
Whoops, should’ve been:
“less able to distinguish between right and wrong” (morally deficient) … “lacking in judgement or prudence” (a fool)
both also taken/paraphrased from Merriam-Webster, btw.
and it converted part of the “fool” definition in my footnote (pasted directly from M-W) into a hyperlink. That should’ve read:
3 a : a harmlessly deranged person or one lacking in common powers of understanding b : one with a marked propensity or fondness for something [a dancing fool] [a fool for candy]
Geez.
First off, I am a Christian. Secondly, taking God’s word and making it sound like it comes from a human/a Christian is foolish in itself. From a human’s perspective, all the people mentioned in this movie may have been people with great social reach, great scientific accomplishments, great imaginations, etc. However, from God’s perspective, these people are truly fools, for they have not/did not choose to accept God into their life.
As for the divorce rate, not only is a 3% difference probably larger than the margin of error in the study, but A RELIGION IS NOT REFLECTED BY ITS CONSTITUENTS. A religion is what a constituent makes of it. So someone on the outside of the religion who says “Christians are wrong because 1/4 of them get divorces or 3/4 of prisoners are Christian” obviously doesn’t get it. Most of those prisoners who claim to be Christian probably just figured “hey I went to church once when i was 6 I guess that’s what I am.”
By the way, I don’t hate atheists or anything, and neither does God. Personally, I feel bad for you, but I’ll let you make your own decisions and make your own movie.
Hello Jeremy,
“By the way, I don’t hate atheists or anything, and neither does God. Personally, I feel bad for you, but I’ll let you make your own decisions and make your own movie.”
You’ll let them make their own decisions and make their own movie? Be careful how you word things. You have not authority, moral or otherwise, to grant permission for either of those things. I’m sure you didn’t mean to come across that way.
Secondly, I agree with your comment about the divorce rates. What I’d like to know is if the rates are significantly different at the 90% confidence rate. In other words, are the divorce rates different in a statistically rigorous analysis?
Finally, the stats about the prison population do not indicate a high rate of Christian incarceration but a very low rate of atheist incarceration. The percentage of Christians in prison matches the percentage of Christians in the populous at large. The stat does not suggest that Christians are morally deficient but that atheists are morally proficient.
Oh, and one last thing: â€God’s perspective, these people are truly fools, for they have not/did not choose to accept God into their life.â€. That’s not God’s perspective, it’s your perspective on what you believe God’s perspective is. I, for one, would much prefer the company of most of those atheists than great scientific accomplishments or great imaginations than the company of the most devout fundamentalists. God just might as well.
I think the prison statistic might be misleading. It’s like that old saying, “There are no athiests in fox-holes.” I mean, come on. If you ever want to get paroled your odds are way better if you have “found Jesus” and been “born again.” :-)
With regard to the lower prison stats for atheists, I think, as Aaron mentioned, it has more to do with an atheist’s economic standing. Studies show that an atheist is generally better educated than a religious person. More education… better job… more money… better lawyers for white-collar criminals. (Not to mention less incentive to commit a crime in the first place.)
I think sidfaiwu and Richard also made valid points about this.
As for the divorce statistics, certainly the 21% for atheists vs. the 27% for born agains is significant. My guess on that one is that the atheists are busy in college while the born agains are getting married and having babies. With extra life experience behind them, atheists are better prepared to choose a suitable mate when they do decide to get married. Of course some born agains go to college, but atheists are more likely to go on for advanced degrees.
And besides, with no birth control options and abortion being a no-no, it looks like some “imperfect” born agains might end up marrying early (and to someone they won’t end up getting along with) all because of one wild night of passion.
Hello Richard,
“I mean, come on. If you ever want to get paroled your odds are way better if you have “found Jesus†and been “born again.†:-)”
I thought about this as well. If that were happening, we would see an increase in Christianity rates in prison. But the percentage of Christians remains the same as the wider population. I think Angela may have found a solid explanation for this stat.
Nice movie, although I doubt its effectiveness I do indeed feel there’s a need to step away from the religious classifications. There are too many religious people that have an ungrounded bias against members of another religion. The thing that they do not seem to grasp is that the name “Believe system” already says that it cannot be proven thus that their opinion holds just as much value than that of any other, christian, jew, muslim, hindu and buddhist alike.
The groundrule of almost all religions is “do no harm”. That’s the most important bit. The rest I think is just filler to keep the flock happy.
One thing I kinda missed in the movie though:
The famous quote of Galileo Galilei: “I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use.” and although G.G. wasn’t really an atheist he was one of the free thinkers in that age.
PS, I can’t really classify myself in a religious class but what would come closest I think is jainism / agnostic / new age, but often refer to myself as atheist cos that prevents a lot of questions I care not to answer at that given moment ;)
Not really a very effective video except in learning that some random people are atheist. I think it’s largely irrelevant what religion people believe in, only finding it notable when they make fools out of themselves. Like when Einstein spent the last umpteen years of his life trying to disprove Quantum Theory because he believed “God does not play dice”.
I really don’t care if they want to legislate stupid things like “under god” in the Pledge or “In God We Trust” on our money. Go for it. All I ask is that they get the hell out of my way and leave me and my family alone, don’t spend my taxes on religious nonsense, don’t outlaw things in the name of religion, and don’t kill us in the name of Allah. But obviously all of that is too much to ask. Excuse me while I shoo away this Jehovah’s Witness at the door.
I’m an atheist.
Christian of the Presbyterian persuasion
“My guess on that one is that the atheists are busy in college while the born agains are getting married and having babies.”
Because you can statistically prove that more atheists go to college/value education?
The video seems awfully defensive and since it was created after the aforementioned breakup I can see why. The statistics aren’t really very damning since the message of the Gospel is that we are all (Christians and otherwise) fallen people and in need of a savior. I have heard some of my brethren argue that by necessaity atheists are less moral than Christians and for me that’s missing the point of the message of their professed belief. They are forgetting that their righteousness (morality) is like filthy rags (ancient menstrual pads – gotta love that imagery).
I also find it interesting that we try and pigeonhole people that are dead and have been for some time using the equivalent of pull quotes. Only that individual knew what their relationship to God was at their life’s end. Both sides presume a bit too much regarding our founding fathers.
There has been much talk about the use and misuse of the word “fool”. You can interpret the meaning of the word fool in many different ways, just as you can interpret the meaning of this video many different ways. However, I believe the point is this. Most would agree that a “fool” is someone who lacks understanding, in the case of the shown Bible quote regarding the athiest a “fool” for lacking the understanding of God. What the video is trying to say is, many of these brilliant minds were obviously not fools in many fields and areas of life, and when these people took the time to dwell upon religion and the divine which led them to the conclusion that there is in fact no God or Gods, they didn’t come to this conclusion in a “foolish” manner. These people did not stop being the brilliant intellects that they were when they weighed the sides concering the divine or lack thereof.
In fact, the percentage of athiests in the intellectual world is far higher than that in the general public. I am not saying that there aren’t brilliant people on both sides of the coin, but there are a few basic principles that can help explain why this is. When one truly is able to analyze things from an absolutely unbiased, unpolluted, objective point of view, free from the “fear of God”, free from being afraid that human death could be in fact the end (no eternal life), and free from being afraid of any stigma of being an athiest in society…. then and only then can a true intellectual discussion and debate begin… and therin lies the truth… a true intellectual discussion and ultimately desicion, requires a true intellectual.
atheist, former Protestant
As a student of science and a film student I feel there is much to praise about this video, and will definitely share it with friends.
That being said, I do have some criticism: the prison statistics have no place in this video. If they have any message, it’s offensive when viewed in the context of statistics comparing rates of incarceration of racial minorities and women in the US.
cap, where you get off thiking that that religion is the precursor for morality is beyond me, but then again, if your a christian i doubt you care much as to backing up your beliefs. morality predates religon, and before you get up on your high horse i suggest you look in the mirror and at a history book. religion has done some very disgusting things, atheism has not.
I have visited many prison ..
try find out how may prisinors went into prison being atheiest .and came out beleiving in g-d
they all find g-d there
oh im jewish
“try find out how may prisinors went into prison being atheiest .and came out beleiving in g-d
they all find g-d there”
Why is God in prison?…..
Sorry, just a joke. I couldn’t resist.
Statistics, politics, famous people, cool music – obviously, the concept of death is not known to our “young atheist”.
Think of what will happen to you in about twenty thousand days, think about what will happen to this planet in a few billion years, of what will happen to human race one day, and all its magnificent achievements and discoveries. Think of what will happen to the very Universe some day… Perhaps then you will see the value of faith.
I don’t give a flying f**k about your statistics and facts. The society has no place in my private and intimate relationship with the Creator.
“Think of what will happen to you in about twenty thousand days, think about what will happen to this planet in a few billion years, of what will happen to human race one day, and all its magnificent achievements and discoveries. Think of what will happen to the very Universe some day… Perhaps then you will see the value of faith.”
What is it that you are implying? I don’t think there is an athiest here who hasnt given consideration to the implications of their beliefs. We don’t cower behind mythology because we don’t want to accept logic.
The concept of death being the end is horrifying to anyone. It doesn’t validate your faith.
Furthermore, you have no idea what will happen to mankind in billions of years. Perhaps we’ll truly master our universe and create an afterlife (however unlikely). My point is no one knows, but mankind has great potential… greater than that of fairy tales.
“I don’t give a flying f**k about your statistics and facts. The society has no place in my private and intimate relationship with the Creator.”
No one was telling you what to believe (although most christians don’t hesitate to do so). The video was only meant to disprove some christians misguided views towards atheists.
“No one was telling you what to believe (although most christians don’t hesitate to do so). The video was only meant to disprove some christians misguided views towards atheists.”
I think it has been determined that the purpose of the video was NOT to disprove anything to christians. If that was the point, then it most likely failed miserably. Many Christians already think that atheists are godless intellectuals and hollywood celebrities bent on corrupting the youth with evolution and subversive themes.
It would be much more effective to show “average” people who happen to be atheists but manage to live moral, wholesome lives. Simply showing a bunch of smart/famous people who don’t believe in God is just pointless if not counter productive.
“I don’t give a flying f**k about your statistics and facts.”
I believe that sums it up right there. No matter who it harms or how ridiculous it is, there sorts of people hold on to their irrational beliefs no matter what. They don’t have time to consider inconvenient facts, and this guy even admits it. I don’t think that all religious beliefs are irrational, nor do I care if someone holds onto irrational beliefs as long as they don’t try to restrict the rights of others based on their irrational beliefs.
“Think of what will happen to you in about twenty thousand days,”
Ah, to be retired down in the Florida Keys at the age of 76 with my hot little librarian significant other. Drinking rum and yelling at the kids on my lawn. I like thems 20,000 days.
“think about what will happen to this planet in a few billion years,”
So about 3.649×10^11 days after my days of sipping rum in the Florida Keys, the Earth might get swallowed by the Sun and reduced to atomic ash. This really concerns me how? Who’s to say if my progeny will still be on earth by then? I don’t really see any reason to worry about it, so relax guy.
“of what will happen to human race one day, and all its magnificent achievements and discoveries.”
Oh you mean when we’ve made enough magnificent achievements and discoveries that the nova of our old home star is nothing but the irrelevent blinking out of just one fusion power source in the universe of vast billions of them? I love to think about those days.
“Think of what will happen to the very Universe some day…Perhaps then you will see the value of faith.”
No thinking about that makes me wish I could have talked with Sagan in his time. Thinking about that makes me want to debate with Hawking and talk for weeks. It doesn’t strike me with terror to think that the end could happen. Fear is the product of irrationality. The rational mind stares at the dark unknown and says, “Hey I wonder what’s in there?” not “Oh lord, sheild mine eyes from the dark, its scary in there.”
@ Zol:
“Statistics, politics, famous people, cool music – obviously, the concept of death is not known to our “young atheistâ€.”
The concept of death is just that. Death, we will cease to exist. Why should we, mankind, be so special compared to our brethren the mammal, that we should have an eternal soul, and live side by side to “our creator”? What would we do there? What would be the purpose of conserving the essence of billions and billions of people that have come and gone in history?
“Think of what will happen to you in about twenty thousand days.”
I’ll die, and leave this world as heritage to my children and theirs.
“think about what will happen to this planet in a few billion years”
It’ll cease to exist, just like anything that has come and gone. Likely our planet will be far from inhabited by that time though due to some other major catastrophe like a big ass-whooping meteor.
“of what will happen to human race one day, and all its magnificent achievements and discoveries.”
Thesame as what happened to civilizations before us.
“Think of what will happen to the very Universe some day”
The Universe (as far as we can see and calculate now) will be an ever expanding universe. nothing will happen to it.
“Perhaps then you will see the value of faith.”
Nope… sorry, still not
“I don’t give a flying f**k about your statistics and facts.”
Your loss
“The society has no place in my private and intimate relationship with the Creator.”
Honestly, when was the last time your creator has actually talked to you?
@ Matthew:
Here you go, something you might find an interrested read:
http://www.ministerturnsatheist.org/