I was reading this article when I found myself laughing midway through. In summary, Danish Muslim groups are pressing the United Nations anti-racism panel to examine whether the Danish government’s response to cartoons depicting the Muslim prophet Muhammad violated an international anti-racism treaty. The publication of the caricatures, they argued, "has fed and will likely continue to feed violent protests around the world leading to more deaths, bodily injury, and property destruction."
Now I covered these caricatures early on before the major media and have received and continue to receive countless comments on that post. In addition I also posted a brief summary on the Muslim response which I felt was completely without merit. I never posted an official opinion on the matter because I grew weary with the immense stupidity of the topic as it exploded into caricatures of Jesus and Jews and the holocaust.
Now that the smoke has somewhat settled, the article above has driven me to address the topic for the last time. I did a little research and ran across this video. Go ahead and watch it. The man on the radio is Neal Boortz, a Talk Show Radio host in Atlanta,Georgia, and he took this phone call back in February when the cartoon frenzy was in full effect.
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Now, while I do admit that Boortz is a little too right-wing for my tastes, he does make some very valid points. Muslims have proven to be a very violent organization in recent years. A quick trip here will give you a decent summary. Obviously, these incidents are not representitive of the majority, but their silent response is. Muslims have sat idle as many people and countries have commited attrocities in the name of Islam. A quick analysis of the points in the video ring true for all the ones I have checked. The most shocking one to me by far was the one where he claimed Muslim officials block the exit where school girls are trying to escape a burning building because their faces were exposed. I actually dug that one up here and was shocked.
Now as difficult as I think it will be… I want to hear your opinion on Islam. Are they deaf, dumb, and blind with respects to the attrocities commited in the name of Islam and Muhammad?
Now please read this carefully: I DO NOT want this to turn into a jihad against Muslims. Keep your racist and hateful comments to yourself. And if you are Muslim, please post comments in english so we can all read them. My Turkish isn’t so good these days ;)
No related posts.
Dudes a little on the edge, but did make many good points. You don’t get to pick and choose who is part of your faith. Most Muslims surely don’t support these terrorist actions. But those actions are still made by people who believe in Islam, and therefore every atrocity committed is still a direct result of the religion. So whether it be Christianity, Judaism, Islam, or whatever, the words peaceful and religion do not go together.
Depending upon your point of view, a very similar statement could be made against the current administration of the US and Christianity. I don’t hear any Christain outrage over the deaths and anarachy in Iraq.
I don’t hear any Jewish outrage over death and distruction in Lebanon.
I never heard any athiest outrage over massive killings in the USSR or China. (bit of a stretch, as the killing were not done in the name of athisim, but as I did not want to let myself off the hook either).
I am an athiest, I think religous muddled headed thinking is at the heart of most the real horror in todays world, so this is not an excuse for religon. But I do not think that real Muslims take “ownership” for atrocities committed in their name any more than real Christians take ownership of the actions of the US.
For better or for worse, people do not equate themselves with the most extreme examples of their own beliefs.
Patrick, I’d like to disagree. What the US is doing in Iraq is far, FAR different than the items in the radio show. To be honest, it’s Muslims that are performing all the suicide bombings in Iraq. Muslims have killed more civilians in Iraq than US troops.
As for the Jews in Lebanon, they are trying to hit military targets, whereas Hezbollah just fires rockets indiscriminately in to towns. They also target cafes and stores and buses full of civilian for the sole purpose of causing terror. Sure Israelis have killed civilians, but that was not their intention… that’s a big difference.
gasmonso
Hey,
Before you get a waterfall of comments, I ‘d like to say these.I agree tottally with patrick.
There are different ways to view religion. Since most ppl agree that money(or name it power, wealth, influence), is the ultimate motivation for everything happening on this planet, in my mind religion is just another form of greed. Covered in nice ceremonies, wild farytales and systems of ethics.
What the US has been doing the last century is just that. For the sake of getting more money/power/influence, it uses democracy/freedom/belief in god as a trojan horse into convincing the masses that its imperialistic strategies actually are for the better of everyone. How is that different from what is happening in the muslim world?
I would go one step further, in danger of pushing it a bit. Both american and muslim groups commit attrocities. In fact, they do in a very well orchestrated manner, that fuels each others efforts. The difference is this:
The americans certainly do it for the money;we got that figured. The muslims though, even in their DEEP fanatism/lack of education/total wackness, they do it for their Morals. At least thats what they think.
Can you judge who is better than the other?
Uhg. I couldn’t even get through half of the clip. It just reminded me of why I hate talk radio. It is completely one-sided, opinionated, and emotionally driven.
Anyway,
Islam is not the enemy, fundamentalism is. Fundamentalist beliefs always result followers who believe their crimes are justified and tolerate no criticism. The caller sounded like a rational Muslim. He was not part of the problem. Yet that didn’t prevent the host from acting like an ass and taking out his anger on the caller.
Also, pointing out that other groups commit crimes does not mitigate crimes committed by Muslims. Nor do crimes committed by Muslims justify crimes committed by Jews, Christians, or any other group. The radio host’s crime is being a rude, unthinking reactionary who spreads hatred for the purpose of increasing ratings or entertainment.
I agree with gasmono in that intent is the important thing.
This is why if I run someone over on my way homefrom work today and kill them, I will be punished according to my intent.
I see terrorists as having bad intentions. They target civilians, and avoid military targets. They seemto revel in the deaths and destruction they cause. This is a vile way to be.
And since the Isreal/Lebanon conflist was brought up: Isreal is trying to target military targets. Infrastructure is a valid target as it helps damage the enemy’s supply and logistical abilities. Shooting rockets PAST the military that is trying to kill you isn’t just wrong it is stupid.
I think the talk show host has a good point. However it is kindof underminded by the fact that he is right wing and probably, someone who isn’t “outraged” when christianity treats others, for example, homosexual, like dirt under the carpet. So we have a case of pot-kettle-black hypocrisy.
I might be mistaken, the host might be a staunch critic of christian fundamentalism but my guess is that he’s not.
The argument would come out better from the mouth of an atheist or anybody else who isn’t associated with immoral religious groups.
Off the topic but the views on Isreal/Lebanon conflict is completely wrong (IMHO). Israel did target the airport and the Beirut-Damascus highway, which will stop the supply of arms to Hezbollah from Syria and our best buddies (or not) Iran. However, they also destroyed bridge foundations, power stations, water plants, sewage works and television stations, ummmm, yeah and don’t forget the two ambulances (clearly marked) and water drilling rigs just recently. Of course, that’s not much on CNN, in fact it’s amazing how one sided the news can be. Not that I am saying Hezzbollah is innocent, they are a terrorist organization, but Israel’s extreme backlash cannot be justified.
Dug, targeting roads, power stations , and bridges are the first few chapters out of ‘fighting a war 101′. That is standard practice. You can’t compare that to blowing up buses, schools, and cafes.
Seriously, that just doesn’t make sense. It’s harsh, but definitely not the same.
The intention of Israel is to keep Hezbollah away from Israel. The intentions of Hezbollah are to make the Jews extinct. Very big difference in my book.
Either way, it has to be settled militarily as neither side will EVER negotiate. We’re dealing with religion, where there is little room for tolerance unfortunately.
gasmonso
Gasmonso, are you seriously asking people who believe in invisible men in the sky to offer sane opinions about what is done in their gods’ names?
Medication, not politics, man!
Ow, listening to that clip hurt me. Talk radio is bad for you.
@Patrick: Yes, atheists have committed atrocities. Though, in fairness, the extreme communist views of those particular ‘atheists’ generally involves worship of some leader or the state. In any case, being an atheist doesn’t automatically mean you’re enlightened and not evil.
As per Islam, I think it’s another case of a religion struggling to deal with reality. The more radical teachings of Islam were much more acceptable when people were isolated and tribal. But in the past couple of hundred years things have changed so much, with global interdependance, communication, travel, etc. that the old beliefs now cause major problems. This is what happens when you make something infallible; what works in one place at one time won’t work everywhere, forever.
My real problem, however, is applying anti-racism to issues of religion. Muslim is not a race. I can understand if there are people who identify with Muslim culture but don’t follow Islam, lord knows I know a lot of ‘Mennonites’ who are atheists. That’s fine, but that’s a culture, not a religion. Religion is a choice. I know a lot of people never realize this, but it is. Some people are taught from birth that if I draw a cartoon of their prophet that I’m evil. But we don’t forgive people who commit hate crimes just because their parents taught them to hate from birth, so why do we give special privelege to religious beliefs?
Gasmonso…
Coming from a country that was plagued with terrorism I have no problem in saying that I have no love for Hezzbollah. Blowing up schools and buses, yes, horrible, I never supported their actions in my statement. However, I am assuming Israel have only ever blown up military targets? You have to be joking.
Correct me if I am wrong though, are Israel targeting the terrorists : yes. Are Israel targeting the people of Lebanon : yes. Power, water, roads, etc, these are all needed to survive. The UN now are uncertain they can even get aid to the people of Lebanon. Harsh? Disaster if you ask me. Yes, Hezzbolah are terrorists, but do all the Lebanese support them, no. That’s like saying all the Southern Irish supported the IRA.
The fact is the International community is pissed at Israel, and why not, they are in violation international humanitarian law.
I know this will never end, Israel attacked two ambulances, Hezzbolah attacked two ambulances back, this will go back and forward for years. Am I on one side? No, both are not innocent, but I feel the Lebanese people are suffering greatly at this current feud.
Oh, IMHO
I made it to 1:17 before I had to stop that recording. It is comments like this radio host makes that made me become an atheist.
But that’s not the point. The question here is, “Is this man right?” And the answer is a resounding no.
Why are there so many angry Muslims? Why do they bomb us? Because that’s the story of civilization. People who feel downtrodden are angry. The people of the Middle East have become the center of the world all of a sudden. They see others who are better off than them, but they don’t think it’s fair. So what do you do when you feel angry and it seems as though the world is against you? You find a reason. An answer. For many this is religion. Religion gives purpose. I always have and always will support religion because it helps to give purpose to those that would otherwise be without. I have met people who got their lives back thanks to religion.
But religion should never justify rage and violence. The angry Muslims that are causing so much violence are saying, “Look at these foreign pigs, who have all this money but come to attack us! But you must believe in Allah, for he is behind us! He will make these foreigners pay, and we will help him!” With this rationale they justify killing people.
Not only that, but it is often the case that people simply become too subservient to a faith, to the point where they forgo anything that does not seem to be in line with it. All else is unlike them, so it can only be evil. This is how you become a bigot. Too many religious wars were started with both sides praying to God to grant them victory.
Furthermore, who’s to say that religion is actually the reason some of these people are even fighting? This is only something I’ve heard, so I cannot claim it to be true, But I heard the reason Osama Bin Laden originally came to hate America was because he lost some oil land in some way or another to the US. Might religion only be a mask in front of a more selfish goal?
Whatever the reason, we must remember that most people are not so extreme. I believe that most Muslims just want to be left alone. I have never gone to the Middle East,so I cannot say for sure, but I think they just want to be left alone because it seems to me that most people in the world just want to be left alone. So many Muslims in the Middle East are quiet because they just want this all to go away so they can live without fear of a bomb.
So, I conclude, saying all Muslims hate us and want to kill us all is wrong. As long as people are different, there will be some that will hate and some that will destroy, but most of us want to live good lives. We must take it upon ourselves to silence the raging minority for the good of mankind. And calling all Muslims terrorists is sure as hell not the way to do it.
Okay, I’ve managed to finish the rest of that video, and I would like to respond to Neal Boortz.
Why, Boortz asks, was the Muslim world silent during all those atrocities?
Why, I ask, were Christians silent during the Inquisition?
People, like I said before, want to live in peace. To oppose these fanatics where their influence is strongest would be more than dangerous. Most Muslims, I am quite sure, don’t want to make martyrs of themselves. They want to raise a familiy and live well. I admit to not being a brave man, and so I think I would keep quiet too, for fear of my life.
As for the sudden outrage over the cartoons, there I find that I partly agree. The response was way too high. This goes back to the reason I became an atheist. We must learn that the world has a lot of people, and many of them disagree with us, whether we want them to or not. However, saying that we should slap Islam across the face and threaten it with eradication is not the way to solve problems.
Many people seem to have the opinion that Muslims are the only ones purposly committing terrorist related actions. This is incorrect, have a look at this site:
http://www.rense.com/general21/pastzionist.htm
Don’t get me wrong, Hezbollah and Hammas are not innocent in this conflict. But people need to know why these conflicts are happening before they go making stupid comments.
Kind of off-topic, but did anyone catch the clip on BBC World this morning about evangelist in US who believe in second coming of christ. The clip associated the evangelist with the republican party and claimed that they might be even bigger influence on US foreign policies then the ‘Israel lobby’. What was weird about it that it seemd to me as if the clip was cut before it ended and the news anchor just made some quick comment about that topic and a commercial break was rushed in. Also I can’t find that news piece from any of the BBC news sites either.
I read the BBC article about the girls caught in the burning building. It sounds to me that muslims were definitely outraged by the situation. Hell, the media even make an official criticism of the mutaween police.
I’d say that as a culture, Muslims are no deaf, dumb, or blind on a whole.
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Patrick Says:
July 27th, 2006 at 7:58 am
Depending upon your point of view, a very similar statement could be made against the current administration of the US and Christianity. I don’t hear any Christain outrage over the deaths and anarachy in Iraq.
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then you must live in a hermitage somewhere …
First of all:
What’s with this whole “what Isreal is doing is okay cause it is part of a war” thing? Isreal decided to enter a war and so the deaths they cause in their war are completely their fault, war or not. They should know that war causes death. War has always caused death. When you bomb for terrorists, you’re going to kill innocent people.
Second:
As for specificly targeting civilians, muslims aren’t doing it to be evil, they’re doing it because it is an effective strategy(though that definitly DOES NOT excuse it). And guess who showed them how effective it was? The West. Everybody used civilian targets in WWII, both the Axis and Allies.
And guess who is the only country to drop NUKES on civilians that ended up kiling hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians? I’ll give you a hint: it wasn’t a muslim country. September 11 was nothing compared to what we(that certain non-muslim country that I happen to be a member of) did to Japan. So we ended the war? And if the muslims thought it would get us to stop attacking them, would that make Sept 11 ok?
It seems to me that:
Americans kill hundreds of thousands of people =good
Muslims kill a lot less people = evil religion/cult/terrorists
When can we realize that terrorists and soldiers are both murderers. Why should powerful countries have the right to say whether a death is a murder or part of a war? KILLING IS BAD. Muslims who kill others are bad. Non-Muslims who kill others are bad too. It’s that simple. I agree muslims have done a lot of very awful things, but even I, an atheist, think that they are being a bit too singled out for things all of humanity does and has done throughout history.
Just remember, we killed more innocent Japaneese with just two bombs then all the innocents the Iraqi insurgents killed. If they can end the iraq war and drive the US back home, they will have achieved the same end (ending a war) that we achieved with the nukes. How can anybody say they are MORE evil than us for it?
Well, maybe somebody bothered to read all that.
The problem with Muslims is that what did they expect to happen when the dumbest of their twisted minded and poorly educated people decided to attack the most powerful nation on earth and destroy the Twin Towers while killing many innocent highly respected non-twisted people?
Muslims should be glad that Bush is not raging war on a scale of the Holocaust.
Muslims started this war……so now they have to suffer the consequences for their dumb actions.
Deaf, Dumb and Blind, with no respect for anyone else who does not share their Islamic twisted and dysfunctional points of view, I definately think so.
You just have to look at the way Muslims reacted over a teddy bear being named ‘Muhammed’ to know how twisted and crazy these Islamic people are.
Islam is a danger to the progress of our society.
Actually the majority of muslim terrorists in the west are middle class with college educations. Look it up. Start with the medical doctors in Scotland last year.
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