Martin from Preaching Freedom recently contacted me and had this to say about the Atheists Aren’t That Bad video. I’m not quite sure what to make of it but I’ll leave that to you.
Watched atheist video, not impressed because they just don’t get it. Every
human has an eternal position, it’s your choice heaven (by repentance of your
sins) or hell by rejecting the free gift of Jesus Christ dieing on the cross.
Yes, those men did great things, but yet, they will forever be dammed if they
don’t repent, hence "Fools" in the aspect they have rejected God and therefore
willing condemned themselves unworthy of eternal life. Ro 1:22 Professing
themselves to be wise, they became fools,
23 And changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like to
corruptible man, and to birds, and four-footed beasts, and creeping things.
24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their
own hearts, to dishonor their own bodies between themselves:
25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the
creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen
And you notice the "worship" of these so called "wise" men, who is really wise?
The one who foresees the danger and hides himself? (in Christ) or the one who
ignores all warnings and is punished forever for rejecting a gift of eternal
life?
I got saved because I knew I could not save myself, and I knew that God would
save me if I confessed and asked him for forgiveness.
I’ll be a fool for Jesus any day of the week, and no one has ever shown to me
anything better. And the best part is to come; I’m going fishing forever while
some "smart" guys (by this world’s standards) burn for along time.
Don’t think there is a hell?
Well I can’t show you hell, but I can show you the eternal place for all
dammed souls, it’s called the eternal lake of fire, you see it come up every
morning.
Re 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the
second death.
Enjoy!
Related posts:
- Atheists Are America’s Most Distrusted Minority
- Jesus Is Back And He’s Puerto Rican
- Jesus Action Figure
- Atheists Aren’t That Bad
- Dave Represents The Old School Christians
July 29th, 2006 at 11:01 am
I have a question…what about those who were around before baptisms? Does Noah burn in hell? What about Moses? If mere acts of good will and a life of well-meaning aren’t enough, than I assume the fact that they were never baptised (so far as I can recall) means that they burn in the “lake of fire” right along with Hitler.
July 29th, 2006 at 11:05 am
Actually, scratch that first comment. I forgot the Harrowing of Hell, after Jesus died, when he decided that there were a few souls in hell that were, should we say, “deemed worthy” to be brought back by special circumstance. Although I don’t know that that part was directly written in the Bible, so maybe they are burning anyway. And as for anyone else who’s good works were not directly in God’s name, screw ‘em.
July 29th, 2006 at 11:35 am
Men like this, his organization, and website are exactly the type of thing that give the south a bad name. (check out the site)
No one logically decides to turn out like this guy. If people would stop beating this crap into their children and give them an objective intelligent standpoint on religion, then no one would turn out like you disgusting fearmongering ignorant bastards. Eventually people will evolve out of it, but unfortunately (because of baptists and the like) not for a while. Until then, we can thank them for holding back social and scientific progress.
Don’t get me wrong, I don’t have a problem with ordinary christians who just want some fairy tale to give their lives meaning, but people who take their religion to seriously are always a bad thing.
July 29th, 2006 at 12:46 pm
There is no such thing as an “ordinary christian,” or an ordinary jew, muslim, hindu, budhist, nazi etc for that matter. Trouble is not with the specifics of the belief, but the thought process itself, which is fuzzy and irrational at its core. Even if for the moment such thought process is being used to arrive at inconsequential or “harmless” conclusions, sooner or later something consequential comes along, and then things get ugly.
July 29th, 2006 at 2:46 pm
Posted this in the last comment about the video, it counters the “believe or burn because jesus loves you” mindset.
Question with boldness even the existence of a god; because if there be one he must approve of the homage of reason more than that of blindfolded fear.
-Thomas Jefferson, Letter to Peter Carr, August 10, 1787
July 29th, 2006 at 6:45 pm
Some more interesting exegesis:
“Gehenna”, translated in the new testament as “hell”, was a rubbish dump outside of Jerusalem. People threw their refuse onto what was, basically, a non-stop bonfire.
Whenever you see the term “fire” in the New Testament, what it refers to is either destruction (or purification, as in metallurgy, but we’ll ignore that meaning for now because it’s not relevant for this discussion). The idea of Gehenna as a place of eternal torment for humans doesn’t appear anywhere in the sayings of Jesus, and at most in one place anywhere in the Bible (and even that reference is controversial about what it actually means).
The final quote from Revelation is a good example. “Death and hell were thrown into the lake of fire.” That’s supposed to mean that death itself and hell itself are being destroyed (”the second death”).
Incidentally, there are some parts of Revelation, which is an EXTREMELY hard-to-understand book, which do talk about demons and/or “the devil” suffering some kind of eternal torment. Whether you think this means, whether literal, non-literal or just plain silly, there’s still no mention of humans here.
If you buy the argument that non-believers don’t go to heaven, then being “thrown into the lake of fire” means destruction. That is, what happens to an atheist after they die is pretty much exactly what most of them believe: they simply cease to exist.
Comments like the one from this guy, apart from making me cringe, just reinforce the take-home message that I got from the video: Holy writings, the bible especially, are hard to understand, and should not be naively interpreted by the stupid.
Incidentally, I agree wholeheartedly with the Jefferson comment. In fact, I’d put it the other way: Any deity whose belief system is based on fear of eternal after-death punishment is not worthy of being followed.
Oh, and one more thing. Why is it that almost every christian I meet seems to believe that God agrees with their prejudices? I’d like to meet some more fellow christians who disagree with God about something.
July 29th, 2006 at 8:31 pm
“it’s your choice heaven (by repentance of your
sins) or hell by rejecting the free gift of Jesus Christ dieing on the cross.”
What I’ve always wondered, is that if God is all-knowing and infinite in wisdom, intelligence and knowledge then it stands to reason that he already knows which decision you’re going to make.
If he condemns you to Hell for AN ETERNITY OF SUFFERING, which is a decision he already knows and is therefore partly responsible for, then he is hardly the embodiment of love purported by mainsteam Christianity. Rather, he seems an unjust and unfair God who abuses the weaknesses he is intimately aware of within his flawed human creations.
July 30th, 2006 at 5:05 pm
If any god would value blind belief more highly than living a moral life of helping others, then that is a god I will refuse to worship, even with the threat of eternal damnation hanging over my head. Incidentally, what exactly would you call that sort of belief? Agnostics believe we can’t know if god exists, and athiests believe god doesn’t exist, so what am I if I simply don’t care one way or the other?
July 30th, 2006 at 7:19 pm
Damn those people who never even had access to the Bible. Those sinners who didn’t seek out the “truth” that they had no reason to believe existed. I hope everyone in the Americas until the 1500’s learned their lesson from this!
July 30th, 2006 at 7:34 pm
“so what am I if I simply don’t care one way or the other?”
An apathist.
July 30th, 2006 at 8:24 pm
Hell exists in one’s mind. As long as you spend more and more time directing hate to people, more hate exists in your soul and less happy you are. Pointing the finger to another person about things _you_ think are wrong (according to your beliefs) is disrespecting that person’s right to have his/her own opinion. Listening other’s rationale and comparing it with yours, trying to stay with what makes more sense from both ways of thinking makes both persons be better.
Being a believer doesn’t equals to being a hater, and dressing the facade of “I love you as long as you start to believe the same I do” is hipocrisy, one of the most destructive feelings a person can feel, because it destroys both the teller and the listening - the teller first.
Respect is the key. Some believe in salvation, some don’t want to be saved because even after listening to parlors about Christ’s blood they don’t feel they need to be saved. Some (like me) believe firmly in God but don’t feel the need to be saved because they try to do their best to themselves, to their family, to their society and to their country so they have a clean consciousness. Some don’t believe at all in a supposed divine creator of everything. Some don’t even believe we are more than a mechanincal device without real conscience (look for psychic zombies in wikipedia).
Maybe the truth is inbetween. Maybe that’s why we actually don’t throw rocks at a woman in her monthly cycles if she sits by our side (as stated in some point in the Bible I don’t recall just now). Maybe that’s why most people feel it’s wrong to decapitate christian girls in a rice farm in the name of Allah or Muhammad - sallallaahu ‘alayhi wa sallam (whatever does it mean) or a buddhist monk setting fire on his own body.
Maybe the problem is people are looking for God in the wrong place, looking for in the words of a pretentious “leader” instead of in their our consciousness. Maybe some people is just immature to grasp the concept of an ever-loving God who doesn’t give a damn about how one calls Him/Her/It. Maybe some people have the need to inflate their egos allegiating people to his/her on cause with the excuse of God’s will.
It’s interesting to note that almost all socially-accepted religions have their basic premises in common sense like “do to others what youl’d like to be done to you”. It’s absurd how a simple concept like this one can be so misunderstood and diversely interpreted from its original meaning. Interesting to note how atheists tend to execute more properly this “divine law” (a.k.a. common sense) than supposedly religious followers. I remember one phrase from the (suppodedly Holy) Bible what more or less says there’s no merit in calling “My Lord, My Lord” instead of doing what God asks you for - it seems heaven (if it does really exists) will be full of atheists just because they follow gods’ rules better than the believers. And about those 10 commandments, I cannot see in them “thou shall hate” or “thou shall send thy sons and daughters to combat the infidels” or “by following these commandments thou shall be republican” or “thou shall oppose the democrats” (just for the record, I’m south american, like in south america, way down equator’s line, and I don’t live in United States of America’s soil - well, at least while they don’t invade my country:) - or correcting, send a “peace force”.).
In fact, God should be the the perfect love, perfect understanding, perfect respect, perfect charity we should have as an aim. When we start to behave this way (if the human race can ever be able to achieve this state) we all will be in heaven and God will be amongst us.
July 31st, 2006 at 11:38 am
Man, it’s been forever since I’ve seen a website this cool. Keep on fighting the good fight; I however, have moved on from trying to help the fearful and devout out from under their ignorance.
I say we impose legislature to burn all the churchs and hang the ministers/morons from the ashes. Or at the very least disprove god a few more million times through science and fact. Let me know what I can do to help brother, set up mirrors or advertise etc.
Keep on fightin the good fight, no one on the internet is making a better difference to ensure a better life for everyone, than you.
July 31st, 2006 at 12:02 pm
Its kind of funny that the only proof that he can show of the bible is *drumroll* once again, the bible. I’m sorry but I really don’t have any respect for proof by statement of proof (ie “Christianity is correct because Christianity says it is correct”).
Its a challenge that christianity is unable to meet with any kind of logic. The statement they attempt to prove to me is “You should accept christianity because it is correct.” I don’t beleive in the teachings of the bible. This is a logical given. By this any attempt to convince me through the bible is immediately nullified. I am secure that my views of the universe are real because of facts and evidence I can present. But I cannot argue this because the standard christian retort is to cover their ears and pretend not to hear me because I have obviously been decieved by lies such as Physics, Chemistry, Biology, and Palentology.
I don’t just have this problem with christians, so don’t think me just bashing them. I find this fault in all revealed religions. Religions where I am called to ignore the true wonder of the real world around me in favor of a pretty fairy tale in a supposedly divine book.
I don’t convert to such nice little statements. Threats of eternal damnation fall on deaf ears when those ears are attatched to a brain that doesn’t believe in that eternal damnation. Actually, I should rephrase that. The only reason I can think a revealist could ever convert an educated person is on the grounds of Eternal Torment. They won’t quit tormenting you unless you convert to their way.
Gasmonso, thanks for running a site like this. We need more people continually professing the word of questioning things that don’t make sense.
July 31st, 2006 at 4:57 pm
jeeze, does this guy not see the draconian line that is drawn here, fundamental christians can be every bit as ignorant and backwards as any fundamental muslem, no spirit to them just laws and methods of what they think gets a soul to heaven…
in another century he would be wearing shining armor and brandishing a sword and killing infidels in the name of god…
August 1st, 2006 at 12:59 am
“Keep on fightin the good fight, no one on the internet is making a better difference to ensure a better life for everyone, than you.”
Agreed
August 1st, 2006 at 10:40 am
in another century he would be wearing shining armor and brandishing a sword and killing infidels in the name of god…
They still are only it’s laws and bombs instead of armor and swords.
August 1st, 2006 at 1:02 pm
ketias,
“Agnostics believe we can’t know if god exists, and athiests believe god doesn’t exist, so what am I if I simply don’t care one way or the other?”
You’re probably Buddhist. ;->
-matthew
August 1st, 2006 at 1:24 pm
Or you are both a Buddhist and not a Buddhist!
August 1st, 2006 at 2:08 pm
not-Buddhist only comes after you mean Buddha on the road and kill him.
August 1st, 2006 at 2:08 pm
Err, that should be “meet Buddha”
August 1st, 2006 at 2:16 pm
Humanistic Jones to require that christianity (or other religions) conform to logic is missing the point. The reason some people get religious is because they have reached the limits of their logic and look to an external authority to fill in the gaps. The length you go to before you reach the limits of your logic depends a lot on your mental prowess. If, for instance, your family tree is a little like a closed loop then you will probably settle for “everything in the bible is true and written by god”. People who would lose a chess game to a dog usually have enough sense to settle for a more liberal approach…and so on.
Those who have discounted all supernatural authority and exhausted logical reasoning end up as zen buddhists (if they are lucky)
I tell you what’s most frustrating about christians; you can’t imagine the look on their faces when they die and realise there is no after life.
August 1st, 2006 at 2:22 pm
I’m going to throw this one out there for fun…
Why can’t there be an afterlife without God. What if there is some natural progression of life that exists on another plane without God?
Am I on crack? You decide :)
gasmonso
August 1st, 2006 at 3:03 pm
God is merely a reflection of the individual’s willingness to beleive in something above themselves.
Did you know, that if you have an addiction, even one as benign as alcoholism, that no one can cure you except God? It’s true! Only until you admit that you are powerless to control yourself, can you give up that control and receive salvation from above.
So you find god, meaning and purpose in your life, and *poof* you’re happy again. Why does it have to stop there? Why not find more reasons? Why not take God out of the picture and see if it still works? Why not WAKE UP and smell the world?
August 1st, 2006 at 3:38 pm
Hello gasmonso,
I don’t see how an afterlife would necessitate a god, so, no, you are not on crack. I also see no logical defense for the existence of an afterlife. As a matter of fact, belief in an afterlife could potentially be harmful. A belief in an afterlife, especially one that is better and more enduring than our current lives, devalues our current lives. Murder would be less of a crime. After all, the murderer is simply expediting someone’s entrance to a better existence.
August 1st, 2006 at 3:46 pm
Hey Sid, check you emails. I sent you several over the last few days, but I think they are being detected as spam or something. Lemme know if you find them.
gasmonso
August 1st, 2006 at 3:50 pm
Ok, I’ll look. There are being filtered somewhere. I’ll let you know if I can’t find them.
August 11th, 2006 at 4:39 am
why don’t people question their beliefs a little more? the problem with that letter is that theres about 4 assumptions in there from the get go. he assumes theres an invisable man who lives in the sky, then he assumes the bible is a valid historical refrence, he then assumes the invisable man in question has a special list of things he doesn’t like, he then assumes that he also loves you enough to set you on fire if you don’t agree with him. clearly a well thought out position….
August 18th, 2006 at 8:12 am
So the lynchpin of Christianity is that Jesus died for our sins then rose from the dead and became immortal again. So the death really wasn’t that big of a sacrifice. If Jesus is Eternal now, than his three days of being “dead” really was a short nap…no..even shorter like a doze. So Jesus DOZED for our sins. Hell, it would be a big sacrifice for any of us to die for something, because it is PERMANENT. And that lie that God gave up his son…blah blah…HE got him back! so what is the sacrifice? Just a big lie…or the TRUTH if you lack critical thinking. Or maybe your life is so fucked up only drugs or Jesus could help you get some stability…then pick Jesus, drugs causes constipation
August 18th, 2006 at 3:59 pm
Gasmonso, on the question of must there be a god for an afterlife to exist, I say no.
Certainly the two seem attached to the untrained eye. But really, isn’t this heaven just where a person like god would happen to live? If I were an omnicient energy being outside of time and space, I’d like to live in a place where concern for the material world doesn’t get in the way of my being all cool and godlike.
Its percieved connections. I forget the term for that logical falicy but I know of a great chart that can prove to you that the less pirates there are, the hotter the earth has become. So no, no super-omnicient biblegod doesn’t mean there’s nothing after this world that my meat-shell can percieve. Maybe I’m a larval form for that pattern of energy that bobs and wiggles in my skull-meats. Maybe not, I don’t know, but when I do find out I doubt I’ll be able to give you a definate answer (that whole being dead and all).
On that note, I bring a new question to the table. A little A=B B=A here. If god is not required for there to be an afterlife, is there necisarily an afterlife if there is in fact a god? Could god not just be dumping our souls into oblivion once they’re done in this world? Would we even have souls in such a world.
September 2nd, 2006 at 8:23 pm
Actually I think that the large, extremely bright bit of fire I see every morning is what they call a ’star’. We’ve looked into it a fair bit, and I’m almost certain we haven’t found any ‘damned souls’ or ‘godless unbelievers’ in it. In fact, I think anyone who really came too close to it would be completely incinerated.
Isn’t it amazing what you can learn by glimpsing outside of the hell-fire baptist viewpoint of the world.