It is widely accepted amongst Christians that Jesus was crucified and died for our sins. Actually, it’s accepted by ALL Christians because that’s a pretty important part of Christianity. If Jesus didn’t die for our sins, then Christianity would be rather screwed. But is it possible that Jesus didn’t die for our sins?
Not only is it possible, but its true! Jesus fled Jerusalem, leaving his brother to be crucified in his place. Jesus made his way across Russia and Siberia until he reached his final destination of Aomori in the far north of Japan. Here, Jesus gave up the life he once knew and settled as a rice farmer. He eventually married, had a family, and lived to the ripe old age of 114.
Don’t believe it? Well you can go see for yourself and talk one of his actual descendants - a Mr Sajiro Sawaguchi or his grandson Junichiro Sawaguchi, whose family just happens to be Buddhist.
By this point, I’m sure my Christian readers are just stunned and possibly even mortified. On one hand you have Jesus never dying for your sins, but on the other you have an opportunity to meet his descendants. Not a bad deal if you ask me!
Thanks go out to Itanshi for this one!
Related posts:
- Hasta La Vista Baby Jesus
- Jesus Freaks–The Documentary
- Madonna Died For Your Sins
- Muslim Crucifies Christian Slave
- Existence Of Jesus On Trial
September 9th, 2006 at 3:32 pm
Life is a long journey. You should put your shoes on and start.
September 9th, 2006 at 3:38 pm
That’s a good one Catholicguy. But I doubt you’re further along in life just because you believe in fairy tales. Seriously.
September 9th, 2006 at 5:45 pm
/me mods post, linked article and first two comments as flamebait, sighs, and goes to get ready for church. :)
September 9th, 2006 at 5:58 pm
heh frolicking jesus, nice
apparently, according to the story, christians in japan ar elike ‘what?’
so eh who made this up?
no offence, but this reminds me of mormons and their south america tripe
September 9th, 2006 at 6:07 pm
Better hurry, or Jehovah might send you to hell with the other 2/3’s of the world.
September 10th, 2006 at 3:59 am
erm….anyone who believes this deserves a swift kick in the head….
I’m not a christian, but I do pride myself for my common sense, and the odds of this being true are about zero
September 10th, 2006 at 4:18 am
I agree completely, the odds of the story are about zero.
which story are we talking about again? the one where the guy travelled a few thousand miles, or the one where he walked on water, was crucified, then disappeared and reappeared three days later?
[flame]
to the first post:
life is a long journey. open your eyes to reality so that you don’t trip and fall along the way.
[/flame]
:D
September 10th, 2006 at 8:45 am
The odds of this story being true,well,ZERO may be?
oh well,at least it gave me some thing to laugh about for 2 minutes.
September 10th, 2006 at 6:38 pm
I don’t know, I think the odds of the story being true are pretty good. I mean, I assume BBC news did some fact checking before printing it, so there probably is a grave and a legend.
Oh, that’s not the story you meant? Well, then as someone once said, “You are both wrong. The only real question is
whether you believe in the legend [of Jesus] or not. If you do, there should be no doubt in your mind that he died a hero’s death. If you do not believe in the legend, then he was just a man, and it does not matter how he died.”
September 11th, 2006 at 8:40 am
Oh come on man….. You men Dan Brown was wrong? I bet he’s feeling really stupid right now.
However, one would have to assume that if you believe the “The Japanese Jesus trail “story to be true then you would have to believe everything from Genesis 1:1 to Matthew 26:50. That would take a tremendous amount of faith up to that point and then you have to throw the rest of the scriptures in the crapper.
I guess it’s just a faith issue. I know where I am putting mine ;>}
September 16th, 2006 at 9:22 am
Like to add that muslims also believe some one else died on the cross.
September 16th, 2006 at 3:43 pm
Well if I say anything people will just jump on me like they do everyone else.
I do not believe this story is accurate at all.
Yes, I do believe the bible is true and I don’t believe it’s a fairy tale. So no one needs to jump on me and say anything about how sad they are for me that I believe in the bible and not this story.
How do you prove that you are a descendant of Jesus? You got every record of your family tree and you are 100% certain that it’s accurate?
That being said, I don’t doubt that Jesus has descendants because I’m sure he had children. That doesn’t mean he didn’t also die for my sins! Well and everyone else’s =)
September 16th, 2006 at 5:04 pm
“How do you prove that you are a descendant of Jesus? You got every record of your family tree and you are 100% certain that it’s accurate?”
Maybe the same way you prove that Jesus existed in the first place. No one is %100 sure anything about Jesus’s story is accurate. Why not have a leap of faith that some japanese guy is his decentant. You’d have to use the same logic… do you not believe this story because it doesn’t comfort you the way Jesus the savior, son of god story does?
I hope you don’t think of this as jumping on you, but instead as thought provoking debate. I don’t feel sad for you, nor do I wish to insult your intelligence, but I’m always curious to know why people believe what they do…. especially the intelligent ones. Note that if you repond with “becuase Jesus died for me”, or “just because”, or quote some scripture or some other nonsense, then I probably will “jump” on you.
November 9th, 2006 at 10:30 pm
im praying for you.
November 9th, 2006 at 10:43 pm
i am in 8th grade, and i go to a christian school. my bible class assignment is to find a quote that is complete opposite of this verse - “But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.” Romans 5:8.
im taking this little “story” of yours to class. i just wanted to tell you that jesus will ALWAYS love you, no matter what you say about him.
November 9th, 2006 at 11:18 pm
Luv4Christ,
I truly feel honored that my site is going to be in an 8th grade report :) I too attended a Christian school, well actually it was Catholic, but nonetheless remember one thing…
If you were born to a Muslim family you would be worshiping Muhammad and not Jesus. And if you were born in India, you’d be worshiping one of their many Hindu gods.
The only reason you praise Jesus is because you’ve been bred that way. Hopefully over time you’ll come to realize that and start to truly open YOUR mind.
Hang in there my friend and good luck on your report :)
gasmonso
November 10th, 2006 at 12:05 am
Don’t forget that if you’re family brought you up telling you that no one really knows where we come from or if anything happens to you when you die (aka. your family did the right thing), and its something to figure out yourself, then you’d probably end up a free thinking agnostic/deist/atheist.
November 10th, 2006 at 12:10 am
by where we come from I mean the universe in general/time/matter/energy/etc… We know where humans came from within the universe, which is evolution. Denying it is like denying that the earth revolves around the sun.
November 10th, 2006 at 12:10 am
at least Luv4Christ has a good excuse, they’re in eighth grade and has probably spent most of his/her life having jesus shoved down their throat.
November 16th, 2006 at 11:44 am
‘I’m not a christian, but I do pride myself for my common sense, and the odds of this being true are about zero’
LOL the odds of there being a Jesus or God ever are about Zero
November 16th, 2006 at 4:28 pm
in the christian sense etc.
November 16th, 2006 at 7:28 pm
evolution?… ill try to keep this short. 1st of all - “the big bang”. if u hear a loud noise, something/someone had to of made it. it didnt just appear out of nothing, ya know? God makes sence of humans moral values. how would we know what is right and what is wrong if we were once a fish and just decided to grow lungs to breathe air and legs to walk?(which is obviously unlikely). There has to be a good God that made us with a conscience, or else we would go around killing people for fun or something. today, we have NO fossils of half monkey, half human. did you know that while Darwin was on his death-bed he took back all he said about evolution and became a christian?
not to short, sry.
November 16th, 2006 at 8:05 pm
Luv4Christ, we’ve been through this one many times. If God created the universe, then who created God? As for Darwin becoming a Christian, just do your research. Here’s a place to start…
http://www.truthorfiction.com/rumors/d/darwin.htm
Now as for fossils, conscience, and all that stuff… Learn more and keep learning. Just because we can’t explain something doesn’t mean a God created it. It only means we are young and haven’t figured it out. Think about that for a second.
All throughout history, mankind has been faced with an extremely complicated environment. And in this short time we have leaned enormous amounts about us, our environment and everything else. Also, the rate at which we are learning is expanding rapidly.
Before you make up your mind and use “God” as your answer to everything, take a step back and use your mind. I’ll admit, believing in God is much easier than learning science, evolution, chemistry, mathematics, etc, but what’s more realistic?
gasmonso
November 16th, 2006 at 8:16 pm
I always love hearing that Darwin deathbed argument. Luv4christ, I think the biggest problem here is that you go to a christian school, so everything you learn is going to have the christian taint to it, I really hope you end up going to a normal high school or college.
November 16th, 2006 at 8:27 pm
think outside the box, gasmonso. God created EXISTENCE. he created NOTHINGNESS, and in that nothingness he put EVERYTHING. its a hard concept to grasp i suppose. well, if we cant explain something (as u said, that doesnt mean god created it) whats YOUR answer? i think god is the answer to stuff we cant explain. u catch my drift?
November 16th, 2006 at 8:39 pm
A long time ago humans didnt understand what the sun or moon was. To explain what they didnt understand they created gods and said that they were the ones controlling them. How is using god to answer the unexplainable NOW any different then it was back then?
November 16th, 2006 at 9:06 pm
Seriously Luv4Christ, I’ve been through 8 years of Catholic school and attended church every week during that time. Honestly, I’ve been there and done that.
There are many creation myths and stories that predate the Christian story. Take a look here:
http://www.magictails.com/creationlinks.html
What makes your Christian version correct and the others incorrect? Christianity is just one more piece of history and it will fade away and new one will take its place. That is what has happened all throughout history.
If you were born in to a Muslim family, you would be worshiping Muhammad and if you were born in India you’d be worshiping all sorts of different gods.
Think about it Luv4Christ. I know you’re young, but once you travel the world and meet with different cultures, you will have a different perspective… but only if you open your mind my friend :)
P.S. I think you have great courage to speak openly on my site and for that I respect you :)
gasmonso
November 17th, 2006 at 5:29 am
Now as for fossils, conscience, and all that stuff… Learn more and keep learning. Just because we can’t explain something doesn’t mean a God created it. It only means we are young and haven’t figured it out. Think about that for a second.
It might also be the case that there are “things” which we’re yet to find out that validate the existence of God or the truth of (one or more) religions. I guess it’s a good thing to keep an open mind. Dismissing the possibility of the existence of a divine being and then being cocksure about it is not very helpful in searching for truth.
Oh yes, and for the record, Muslims worship Allah. Not Muhammad.
November 17th, 2006 at 9:18 am
N, I don’t dismiss the possibility of God nor do I dismiss the possibility of aliens, bigfoot, and lochness. But I refuse to believe they positively DO exist as well until I see some sort of proof. You know I’m right. Just accept the fact that God may not exist in your world… try it for a day. You owe it to yourself because you can’t prove he exists… PERIOD.
gasmonso
November 17th, 2006 at 10:21 am
Actually, I wasn’t looking for that kind of non dismissal. I meant to suggest something like. “I don’t dismiss the possibility of God nor do I dismiss the possibility of a theory that unifies general relativity and quantum mechanics”. Your statement assumes that God is just a myth and my original comment was trying to say that it might be a good idea to suspend that assumption while searching for a “truth”. Just a suggestion. I can’t prove to you that “idea of FSM” not equal to “idea of God” so please don’t ask me to. :)
As for me personally, I don’t really look for verifiable proof in the conventional sense when it comes to matters of faith. That’s why they’re called “matters of faith” anyway. I’m not suggesting that you should follow it. It’s just how I go about these things. The problem with the proofs which most people have on this subject (as far as I know) is that they’re personal and not the kind of proofs one would expect for the validation of a scientific hypothesis (repeatability etc.). So if someone really asks for “proof for the existence of God”, it can’t really be provided. Something like.. “2+2=4 therefore God exists QED”. :)
I’ve tried the removing God from my view of world for a couple of years and then stopped. It’s hard for me to explain why though especially on the net. I can’t “prove” that God exists. No one can and I don’t really look for that either. It’s just something which I tried, found beneficial and therefore stuck with.
November 17th, 2006 at 11:39 am
“As for me personally, I don’t really look for verifiable proof in the conventional sense when it comes to matters of faith. That’s why they’re called “matters of faith†anyway.”
Who cares what you call it. It’s still being ignorant for the sake of being ignorant. It is opposite of the pursuit of truth, and it is wrong.
I’m not totally dismissing the idea of god, but it IS the same way I don’t dismiss the ideas of flying spaghetti monsterism etc… I don’t have a problem with the idea in general, I have a problem with belief without so much as an ounce of evidence, and most evidence we do have pointing to something else.
The concept of god(s) in general is not totally out of the question in my opinion, but the christian/muslim/jew concept of god, jesus, and humans being the center of the universe, absolute christian morals, angels/devils etc… is just so ridiculous that it really makes me fear for the human race, since so many people buy into it.
Don’t get me wrong, my mind is open. If there is ever any evidence that supports the idea of god(s), I’ll be the first look into it with a bit of skepticism, but no bias.
November 17th, 2006 at 12:14 pm
Well, let me be Mr. Contrary. I DO dismiss the possibility of god. Nothing about a god of any sort makes any sense at all and there is not even the most obscure shred of proof of a god’s existence. There is not even some maybe proof. Nothing. This, to me, is all the proof of non-existence I need. On top of that there are a LOT of things going on in the world, and things that have gone one throughout history that deny the existence of god. Please, don’t bother with the inane “God works in mysterious ways” argument, that is about the most pigheaded thing I have heard in a long time.
I categorically deny the ability of god to exist. Especially any of the various judaeo-christian sects version of god, but any supernatural deity really. Anyone who believes in god is throughly misinformed and brainwashed. I could go on, but what is the point? I think I have defined my position properly.
Hey, as an aside, I have a great idea. The world’s organized religions have some great moral foundations. I mean, who can argue with “Thou Shalt Not Kill” or “Thou Shalt Not Steal”? Why is it that people need god to be able to treat each other well? Although, there is that flip side where people use god to kill each other horribly. I guess we aren’t so civilized after all. We will TRULY be civilized when we can, as a people, treat each other fairly without needing a crutch like god.
November 17th, 2006 at 12:17 pm
Well, I hope you find some “evidence” that satisfies. Do keep searching (if you’re interested in it) though and don’t confuse the actions of people who claim to profess these religions with the teachings themselves.
On a side note, I think that the people who you hear about will always be the lunatic fringe since that’s what everyone likes to hear. (Like this).
November 17th, 2006 at 12:32 pm
No, I am not searching at all :) I have NO need of a god in my life, I am good to go. I really don’t have a problem in principal with people who need a god crutch, the problem is they can’t seem to keep it to themselves. They not only keep trying to push it on me, but over here in the US they even try to make laws that are based completely on their religion. They can’t seem to grasp the simple concept that others not only don’t believe as they do, but a lot of us do not even WANT to be so limited in life. I can treat people good without needing god, I have no need for god. None.
November 17th, 2006 at 4:33 pm
“Well, I hope you find some “evidence†that satisfies. Do keep searching (if you’re interested in it) though and don’t confuse the actions of people who claim to profess these religions with the teachings themselves.”
All I can picture when I read this is a lobotomized ghoulish mental patient saying “jooooin us… it’s blissssssssssssss”
November 17th, 2006 at 4:45 pm
Yeah, but N was very friendly about it. He/She did not condemn anyone for not agreeing nor did he/she claim we are wrong base on an arbitrary book or authority figure. If belief makes N feel better and he/she does nothing to harm anyone else, I see know problem with what he/she wrote.
What I think N was trying to say is that there might be multiple ways to truth. While I agree, I find that there are only two reliable ways, reason and evidence. These are the only two I trust.
November 18th, 2006 at 12:23 pm
Thank you sidfaiwu. I’m a “he”. :)
There seem to be two “issues” here. One is the truth of the idea of God which. Personally, I think it’s a matter of faith and for which no one can find an objective proof. I’d rather not dvelve into theology as it can get ugly.
The other is the usefulness of religion. Michael succinctly sums it up in his comment about how it’s a greater moral achievement to be “nice” to each other without the need for a someone watching over you. In my view of things, the societal aspects of religion are just a small part of the whole package. It’s the facet that’s most visible and analysable though and that’s what most people use to discuss it. It’s not however (in my opinion), the most important part of it. I follow it for different reasons.
As for conveying the ideas to other people, the “holier than thou” attitude and the tendency to shove one’s faith down someone else’s throat is too prevalent these days. That’s sad. There was a time when people used to be attracted to religious people rather than be repelled by them. The whole thing about trying to impose religious laws on a public that doesn’t want them is saddening.
As for reason and evidence, that’s what I rely on too. It’s just that my starting points are different from the other folks on this site.
Oh well, that’s my point of view. Thank you all for your views. :)
November 18th, 2006 at 2:17 pm
The whole thing with jesus dieing for your sins, is ultimately a case of what you believe. If you don’t believe in jesus, then thats up to you. But if you went about with that attitude with anything your never
going to find out wheither there is a god or not.
If you say you have a open mind. Put it into practice. Try it out if there is any truth behind it.
How can you say god doesn’t exist and there being billions of people around the world and thoughout history who have found god.
It is simply not a case of whether god don’t exist but one that you haven’t experience anything to prove that he does exist.
This comes though faith, and when the voice of god hits you the realism of the belief will be apparent.
Saying that “oh I’ve been to church and I felt nothing”, is because you need to establish contact first with god. I confessed my sins, in a time in my life where I had no control over myself and once a group of believers preyed for me I immediately experienced god, and all the controlling forces left my body and I recieved and experienced what it was all about. So put your statements to the test and prove yourself wrong. Maybe that the problem.
November 18th, 2006 at 2:50 pm
So your basically saying to test if there is a god we should just believe that there is a god? Im not sure thats gonna work… By the way, many atheists are former christians, I was one for 15 years until i realized I was praying to no one. But your right about one thing, it’s all about faith, some people simply can’t throw all of science and logic away for a god.
November 18th, 2006 at 11:40 pm
Thats true, in todays world do logic always explain behaviour, sometimes it illogical but depends on who you are as a person. I chose not to live by what I can take from anyone. Its what I can give that gives me the satifaction in life. therefore if you buy me a drink, I felt it only fair I buy the next ones. Its the practice what you preach that makes the difference in life. On the science matter, its funny, there is alot of true in evolution, its all a matter of the experts, but if you ever experienced being in a healing crucade that many evanilist appear in there is a number of cases. That defy logic the man comes in with a wheelchair and leaves walking. If you truly believe in your faith, as a person being there how can you allow lieing about what has just happened.
If there is no truth to miracle healing how can you respect what god has done to you. I’ve been to a healing surmen and I experienced something that I can’t explain this woman in the chairs in front of me, just calposing like she has been touched by god, in the moment the healer touched someone else on stage.!! It cannot be explained by science.
There are so much we as humans experience that we try and forget, its through spiritism that we can understand the level of world we live in.
November 19th, 2006 at 2:15 am
“If there is no truth to miracle healing how can you respect what god has done to you. I’ve been to a healing surmen and I experienced something that I can’t explain this woman in the chairs in front of me, just calposing like she has been touched by god, in the moment the healer touched someone else on stage.!! It cannot be explained by science.”
Actually it can be explained. Read this:
http://www.skepdic.com/faithhealing.html
Seriously, just read it (all of it), and get off the whole miracle healing thing, because none of it holds up to an ounce of scrutiny.
“There are so much we as humans experience that we try and forget, its through spiritism that we can understand the level of world we live in.”
I’m not exactly sure what you’re trying to convey here, what exactly are we trying to forget? and what has spiritism gotten us?
November 19th, 2006 at 2:16 am
@last chance saloon
your mastery of the english language is marginaly better than that of a middle eastern muslim. congrats.
November 19th, 2006 at 12:29 pm
Your father, you sound like a kinda intelligent guy. But you look for answers in the most stupid of places. I guess you problerly ask a chineseman what its like to be british. The guy problerly never has been to england and you prefer his opinion. Why don’t you ask someone who has been to england and find out what it is like or better still go and experience it yourself. So that was a metepore for you looking a crediable source of information just in the name “skeptic” it doesn’t sound like you will have a balanced opinion or even someone who has even been to one. Its all what they want you to believe as it answers your question, but try experiencing it and making a opinion, then at least you can say its MY OPINION and no one has influenced that apon me.
If you want to know if IRAQ has been a success you listen not to governments, media or skeptics you listen to what the people of iraq think, the people who have actually lived there. They tell you what it was REALLY like under oppression and theirs a chance for freedom but its being blighted by extremism, with muslims killing people of their own faith. Its all to control people with fear and accept their extreme version of the quran. Its a shame the media only focuses on the people who want war in that region not to create peace.
My english is bad I know boris & your father, I got dyslexia, so its hard to make sense of what I mean sometimes. But I been to some bad places spiritually from drink and drugs, in which you really experience things that you can’t explain though logic or reasoning. So you seem to forget it, but if you ever been there you problerly know what I mean. I live in plymouth as a student and it is common within people that live there, that many have experienced ghosts and spirits living within the town. I keep hearing this creeking sound coming from the kitchen and when I investigate it theres no one there. also there has been activity in the pub i goto. I was playing pool and one time we were all watching the table before I played my shot and the white ball moved. I never even touch it. Unexplained….We live in a spiritual world, it can be felt, heard and experienced but to many is rather forgotten about because the truth of it is beyond rational thinking.
November 19th, 2006 at 1:15 pm
“If you want to know if IRAQ has been a success you listen not to governments, media or skeptics you listen to what the people of iraq think… Its a shame the media only focuses on the people who want war in that region not to create peace.”
OK, there is no skeptic media. Don’t try to associate the manipulation of information by certain media outlets with the understanding of a skeptic website. I could just as easily associate the corruption of American media with christianity so don’t go there.
“Your father, you sound like a kinda intelligent guy. But you look for answers in the most stupid of places. I guess you problerly ask a chineseman what its like to be british. The guy problerly never has been to england and you prefer his opinion.”
The thing about being a skeptic is that it doesn’t necessarily imply a bias, it just means that you dont buy into something easily. I’m sure many of these people doing research have been to these evangelical faith healing things, and witness what can only be described as mass psychosis and the power of suggestion. You didn’t read it did you, because it explains everything that happens at faith healing gatherings quite well. Try reading it and commenting on what it says, if you don’t like what it says, pick out what you don’t like and tell us, explain yourself. Don’t completely dismiss it because it says “skeptic.” Of course the creators of a site doubting faith healing are going to be skeptics… otherwise they’d be like you.
“I was playing pool and one time we were all watching the table before I played my shot and the white ball moved. I never even touch it. Unexplained….We live in a spiritual world…”
There’s probably a thousand different possible explanations for that. This is anything but proof for the existence of god or spirits or whatever you believe. We live in a complicated world… too complicated to be completely understood by any one person. The only ideas we’ve “forgotten” are the ones that just don’t hold up. We’ve “forgetten” Zues in this manner, do you think the greeks were really on to something, and we’re stupid for “forgetting” it?
November 19th, 2006 at 5:15 pm
last chance saloon, watch this video and let me know what you think…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bV90zKd_SaU
gasmonso
November 19th, 2006 at 5:22 pm
The whole point of that website is to ridacul the topic, theres no point showing a balanced opinion on the matter, it would defeat the objective of being a skeptic.
Your pinning your hopes on whether they have conducted research, I dowt they have its based on opinion not on a study into the actual results.
Lets say they did, some guy who owns a website called skeptics, before hes gone into the place, hes already looking to dismiss what he will see as a bunch of lies. How do you think his readers will feel if they are looking to a skeptic that doesn’t dismiss a story.
Anyway he sees people being healed and coming up to the front and the first though that comes in his head is that it is staged and set up like a magic trick. He will see people come to the front and be touched by the pretcher and they fall on the floor.
Unless its happened to you, your never know what it feels like and if you believe with your ears to someone else version. Then your not looking for the answers your being told what to think. Do you really the guy who wrote article, no. Well in life I chose my friends wisely and make sure that person is trustworthy. Before I make the judgement of accepting his opinion as FACT.
>There’s probably a thousand different possible explanations for that
Err make start on it, because with no gust of wind, theres little option to go on. Ofcourse we looked around and theres no windows open, door closed, no one walking/movement near to the table. Ok theres a couple theres no more explainations, you pass if off as thousands but in your pro-skeptic from the start. You say “probably” with good effect because your hoping for a explaination.
As for the old Zeus, it was a picture of god in their own minds. Everyone who believes in god, vision him in a way they think he would look like or his surroundings but no one has been there its a inturpurtation of how you see him.
And that applies in all religions. All religions share simularities, some differ, but the ultimate message should to recieve the peace from god and live the miracle of life with love in your heart.
That said, why don’t you look for the right answers, instead of believing what some guy told you. On a website aimed at dismissing everything, why should we be so quick to dismiss it without ever trying it out for yourself to see if there is any substance. That way your never know what it actually means to know god and what he can do to guide you though this troublesome world we live in.
I don’t need to read to find your article, to give you a explaination. I just experience it myself to give you my actual opinion of what I’ve experienced. Yours is not your own its based on what a skeptic thinks. Its completely biased.
November 19th, 2006 at 5:43 pm
“The whole point of that website is to ridacul the topic, theres no point showing a balanced opinion on the matter, it would defeat the objective of being a skeptic.
Your pinning your hopes on whether they have conducted research, I dowt they have its based on opinion not on a study into the actual results.”
First of all they aren’t ridiculing anything. They are exposing misconceptions. That is all. If one of their theories doesn’t hold up, they just wont post it.
“How do you think his readers will feel if they are looking to a skeptic that doesn’t dismiss a story.”
If a skeptic actually claims something, there must be a reason, and it would warrant more research, and more people would be interested in the claim. It would hardly ruin him. If some religious nut makes a claim, few will believe them… and for a damn fine reason.
“Err make start on it, because with no gust of wind, theres little option to go on. ”
I don’t know the specifics of the situation, but did you ever think that the answer might not be wind or magic/god? maybe the wood in the table or floor warped, maybe vibrations had something to do with it, there are many things that you never consider, but to you its proof enough for magic or god or whatever you want to believe.
“I don’t need to read to find your article, to give you a explaination. I just experience it myself to give you my actual opinion of what I’ve experienced. Yours is not your own its based on what a skeptic thinks. Its completely biased.”
Skepticism IS NOT a predisposed idea of an outcome, all it means is that they will not believe something without some sort of proof or degree of measure. If none is available, no belief is warranted. If someone makes a claim to a skeptic, they do research to find out if it’s true or not. If someone makes a claim to a religious person, well they really don’t care. They believe what they want and they never change.
“Anyway he sees people being healed and coming up to the front and the first though that comes in his head is that it is staged and set up like a magic trick. He will see people come to the front and be touched by the pretcher and they fall on the floor.”
So it’s completely out of the question that this is a result of mass psychosis and the power of suggestion right? There are other REAL answers, feelings are deceiving, science is not. You ever follow up with these people to see if they were really cured? Some people have and the results are anything but encouraging.
November 21st, 2006 at 6:32 pm
Gasmonso, sorry for the lateness of the reply, I’ve been busy with my course. Thanks for the link, if that voice is truely geniune from the wife of that pretcher. Hes disgracing the faith in which he claims to be representing and the people who has experienced god.
What is surprising is that they choice not to contact the woman to see if she had been cured or not. Thats what we are looking at whether he does possesses any healing ability. All the same thanks for the link, it is aways good to see that they offer proof in the documentry of foul play. He should not be trying to decieve people with that a abilty that only god would know, or someone who doesn’t believe, a form of psychic ability.
What I like is about your link in contratory to your fathers, It had the evidence with the recorded voice and it wasn’t a opinion that skeptics come up with the old mass hysteria tactic. That your father is assumsing that they conducted a study, up to him but wheres the evidence just a suggest it being like this.
You have to take a balanced view if you are reporting anything, as you watching it or reading it you can see the whole picture, not just one side of it. This is the main reason why I don’t trust skeptics version of the truth.
Also there is another point that Gasmondo showed me a look in exposing a pretcher that claims to have power, (even though we investigated the cheating with the old, I know everything about you! The truth is he is not god and don’t possess healing powers., simple yeah, but what going on then, I’m meant to be pro spiritual healers. Set the record straight its the spirit of jesus that heals people not the pretcher, that what the holy ghost is for. To come into your life as doorway to jesus. Sounds bizaar yeah….You can’t pick up this in video or word you have to experience what it feels like. You see I’m very sensitive to the spiritual world, these things I pick up natually love is a word to many but can you remember that feeling, that what you recieve from god. Its not the pretchers its the spiritual soul that contains this love from jesus.
I still like gasmondos link it has substance not just words of opinion.
Anyway your father back to that pool thing. I still think you don’t get what I’m saying to you. The pool thing is a example of spiritual activity involving a ghost. I never said it was magic/god. Over here in england we had a TV investigation series called most haunted, heres the link
http://www.livingtv.co.uk/mosthaunted
They went around the country to reported cities and villages that claim to have activity. They brought motion light sensing cameras, temperature devises, night vision cameras (On a great number of cases had these orbs, balls of light moving around on its own accord). They had special shows that allow the public to be in a audience and a few of them can go on the show and experience it themselves. I brought the first series and they conducted a test in a old place used as a prison where they had torture (long time ago….obviously) and they conducted a test with a leaving a object, funny enough its a cross. In a room, they set it up like a trap cameras and all and locked the room. They come back in the room after 1 hour and the bloody thing has moved!! they checked the video footage and there was tugging away at the cloth (with a outline of the crosses original position) Before the actual cross moved a bit. freaky shit I still can’t believe it what I saw. Well you have to see it to believe it.
That what you need this type of evidence, like with Gasmonso did with his link and the recorded voice. Not what someone else reckons.
January 10th, 2007 at 7:08 pm
jesus didnt die for your sins trust jehova.religion change to the right one is good.you must be calm and careful before giving it out.because talking to the living dead is a experiance of a life time
January 10th, 2007 at 7:11 pm
the invisible man they call jesus christ they communicate with on computer 2 sons of jehova on earth god in your body is a experiance
January 10th, 2007 at 7:14 pm
top secret not top secret
January 10th, 2007 at 7:18 pm
know one told you the right religion.isnt that important. IN GOD WE TRUST so do we son of jehova
January 10th, 2007 at 7:33 pm
lot of money in refrigeration gases helium stabalizers also helium fuel for jets.ancient languages space ship alternator generator for home.magnetivity can push minature alternators for t.v.s vcr laptops lihgt bulbs that light on there own
January 10th, 2007 at 7:47 pm
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
January 10th, 2007 at 8:18 pm
Spam much, psycho boy?
GET HELP.
January 10th, 2007 at 11:08 pm
AREA 51 fist ship design was off hover board got help
January 10th, 2007 at 11:09 pm
salami head
January 10th, 2007 at 11:53 pm
what helium motor? raptor fuel?hot air stabalizer!
January 10th, 2007 at 11:55 pm
more like buttkiss line tap ad intimidator
February 1st, 2007 at 2:21 am
hows your investigation
February 1st, 2007 at 2:24 am
its illegal you know that dont you.states in the paperwork about religion racism will noy be tolerated in the united states gov.
February 1st, 2007 at 2:37 am
im actually a good person once you get to know me.dont let me catch you making a mistake you signed the papers to work for the united states gov.all the rules.i got a lot of heart if your not obeying the rules it makes me mad.
February 1st, 2007 at 2:43 am
who is
April 7th, 2007 at 11:11 pm
hows this dept of defense website coming
April 7th, 2007 at 11:13 pm
if you dont want the website ill take it.
April 7th, 2007 at 11:23 pm
those world wide viruses you people distributed im sure you have a antivirus too.dvd viruses ,top secret viruses wireless viruses frequencys that make people sick..your not the only one with a antivirus.
April 7th, 2007 at 11:26 pm
im not a the law!i act like im the son of god dont i.would you say that..
April 7th, 2007 at 11:37 pm
i do like comedy central!
April 7th, 2007 at 11:43 pm
seriously,if you cant get a good laugh out of it i dont need it.laughing is a antivirus..its good to laugh!
April 7th, 2007 at 11:46 pm
i use to smoke pot but i dont anymore!
April 7th, 2007 at 11:49 pm
yeah afraid i die from laughing!
April 7th, 2007 at 11:53 pm
any body heard any good jokes latley..just board..
April 8th, 2007 at 12:05 am
died from laughing what are you people doing..
April 8th, 2007 at 12:36 pm
gasmonso,
On the home page where the most recent comments are listed, sometimes it lists the 8 most recent comments, sometimes less are listed. Like now only the 5 most recent comments are listed. Is there a reason why this is done?
April 17th, 2007 at 3:29 am
Jesus/God.
He Be Not Real.
No Evidence.
No Proof.
Bible could have been their harry potter for their time for all we know.
There May Be a HIGHER power.
But its certainly Not Jesus.
And Your Understanding of Wicca is Fucked Up.
Wicca= non Devils Work. Wicca is Worshiping NATURE. Which you can see and their is proof of it.
Devils work= SATANISM!
:]
Have a Nice Fucking Day.
Bible Thumper.
And please stop telling those little Kids lies.
its not good.
NO ONE FUCKING DIED FOR US YOU DUMB BROAD!
:]
Thanks
-Aiden Moore
April 17th, 2007 at 4:19 pm
Wow. Is there actually some kind of evidence or a writing where this originated? It sounds like it could be interesting, but completely made up. Is there some kind of resource for this? Or did someone just write it off the top of their head?
April 17th, 2007 at 4:24 pm
if youll notice there is a link right in the text. so maybe you should try that first, although the bbc may not be reputable enough for you.
April 18th, 2007 at 1:21 am
I just want to tught upon the darwin theroy.Saying that we came from moneys is the biggest insult to the creater GOD, its like slapping him in the face. Have you ever look at how complex our bodies are? Something that complecated could not have been made from nowhere. So what the darwin theroy says is that first came goo then the zoo and now you? How is the possible, i’ll tell you, its not so if you are christian and you are losing faith look around you and ask yourself did we really come from apes? I think not. But ultimatly us as christians should just love on other people,even if they are not christian. Thats what ive been doing and a lot of my friends don’t belive in God.
April 18th, 2007 at 1:28 am
Apes are as complex if not more so than humans. We have different traits that have evolved over time and that’s why we are different species. Why is it so difficult for religious people to accept they share 99% of their biology with chimps? It seems to me to be a huge lack of humility, especially from people who go on about how humble they are….
Think of evolution as a lego set, each bit that “fits” is stacked upon the previous bit. You pull out a new bit and try it. No random choice! only the bit that fits. Over time, you will have added enough lego pieces to turn your single block into a giant city. No need for an imaginary friend to do it for you.
April 18th, 2007 at 1:37 am
You should really study up on your biology, or better yet, go to a damn zoo. Its simply amazing how many physical and behavioral traits we share with apes and monkeys.
April 18th, 2007 at 3:30 am
I asked earlier if there was a resource for this idea, what I meant was some kind of ancient literature, or something of that nature. I didn’t take time to look earlier, but I guess there possibly is one according to BBC’s story. There isn’t much of a history behind it though. The article says that the legend can only be traced back as far as the 1930s. Here is an excerpt:
“However the legend of Jesus the rice farmer does not stretch back very far. It only began in the 1930s with the discovery of what were claimed to be ancient Hebrew documents detailing Jesus’ life and death in Japan.
Those documents have now mysteriously disappeared and the grave has never been excavated.”
This sounds like it might be another situation similiar to the box that supposedly contained the remains of James the brother of Jesus. We all know how that turned out…
April 18th, 2007 at 3:41 am
you’re right about James’ ossuary, but I am wondering how this turned into an auguement about evolution. A very heated, yet not so intelligent, one at that. Just because you believe something, doesn’t mean that you are 100% right. Almost nothing is 100%. I consider myself to be somewhat of a “Christian,” but I am open to other ideas, I believe Darwin’s theory of natural selection makes sense and he wasn’t trying to decieve people when he wrote it. Just be open and tolerant. you don’t have to go slandering people for a disagreement over beliefs of human kind’s origin. and Christians should definately NOT be so close-minded. That’s what makes people not want to be Christians in the first place. Sorry to deviate from the topic, but I felt that needed to be said, mostly to the “christians…”
April 18th, 2007 at 4:56 pm
“That’s what makes people not want to be Christians in the first place”
no, what makes people not be christian is the fact that it just makes no sense… none of it… and especially the stupid-ass jewish mythology that somehow got included in there. nonsense, all of it.
April 18th, 2007 at 5:13 pm
I’m sure there are some of both, boris; people who don’t like the image of being close-minded, and those who find the whole thing nonsensical. It’s just that this place is frequented by those in the latter category.
April 18th, 2007 at 9:43 pm
Hi, I’ve been away for awhile. I’ve been reading and digesting a lot of what we’ve discussed. I’ve wondered if anyone (Sidfaiwu maybe) has read Case for Christ by Lee Strobel. I found this to have quite a bit of what seems to be good “evidence” for why the Bible is as accurate if not more than other historical documents to date. If you have some time, I would really like to know your take on this book. It’s a very interesting and quick read. I really respect your ability to discern and analyze information. Your opinion on the book would weigh a lot with me. I see a ton of arguing based on messed up whacked out Christians. Can we put them aside and will someone look at these “facts” with me?
April 19th, 2007 at 12:59 am
AJ, im really glad you put “facts” in parenthesis. Iv read a good amount of material like this, one of my old friends actually gave me “Case for Christ” as a birthday present. In my opinion most of the ideas and arguments it brings forth have already been used before, and they have been shown to be faulty or plain wrong.
April 19th, 2007 at 4:41 am
I have amazed that this forum is running so long. I have read most of the responses. I just want to add…God does not have to prove his existence to anyone. He is God, whether you believe it or not. And you are entitled to not believe too. He gave us choice…whether you believe or not that choice is granted by God. Whether or not you believe that Jesus is who he said he was and whether or not you believe he died and rose again…it dont make a difference to the truth. Believe he ran away to Siberia too, that dont change the truth. Fact and truth are not the same thing.
It is really foolishness to argue back and forth about this…believe what you want. Most of your hearts are calloused anyway…you will never believe. God is that who HE is. You are mere man, you live, u breath, you die. And you are soon forgotten. All your opinions die with you, …death is your wages. But God, He lives on …whether you believe it or not. Choose this day whom you will serve…nobody is holding a gun to your “foolish” heads.
April 19th, 2007 at 4:45 am
There have been people like you throughout history…debating about the same topic. Anybody know their names? nope…gone. With all their “knowledge” they actually knew nothing…
so there…eat the fish,spit out the bones.
April 19th, 2007 at 5:25 am
Wow janine talk about a calloused heart, can you not love you fellow man just for the sake we are all human? For someone who has seen and been as much as i have, i am very optimistic about the world we live in. Everyday i think about how lucky i am that our planet has water and air, not to mention that our planet is just lucky enough to be in the right place in our solar system to support life our diverse species. You sound like the worst type of christian, one who doent care about their fellow man. Even when i am bugged by friends into going to church with them or find out im on a prayerlist i still know these people care enough about me to want me to do what they think is right.
Why argue? because everyone does, the only time ill stop arguing with “people” like you is when you either except we will all be different or you can set me up with appiontment with the big man HIMSELF. Why does god have to be male? I bet you think jesus was white too.
About the people in history who didnt believe in your dear and fluffy lord, that just shows youv never done any research. Try google, youll find plenty of info. And frankly Im looking forward to when we can all forgot that people like you ever existed.
April 19th, 2007 at 5:47 am
no irishthunder. i dont believe Jesus was white. according to the bible, he was a Jew. But then you dont believe in the bible so…you may have a problem with this one as well.
And the bible says he was male… but then you dont believe in that too…so i dont know, make of it what you want.
What in my response makes you think that i dont have love for my fellowman. YOu guys have been running this forum forever now with no end in sight. Why dont u just choose to believe what you want. Because your belief or interpretation of the truth does not change who God is. He is God…but then the bible says that…and you dont believe in that. Jesus never argued with people…He said what he had to say and that was that. Whoever didn’t believe, didn’t believe. But then you dont believe the bible…so make of it what you want. Those that chose to stay in their “intellectual glasshouses” stayed there. Jesus came, did what he had to do,and told us to make disciples of the whole world” Now you want to “forget we ever existed” and I am the one with the bad heart. All we want to do is what our Lord told us to and make followers, tell people about him and allow the Holy Spirit to do the rest. So if we have done that (as i see some on this forum have)what more can we do. But then you dont believe the bible…so.
And by the way…the planet is not lucky to have anything. It is the blessing of God…but then you dont believe…so believe what you want.
And hell no…google or any search engine will never take the place of the Word of God…but then you dont believe in that. So believe in Google or whoever you want.
And hey you have one more person praying for you.
Yes people are
April 19th, 2007 at 6:07 am
“…but then the bible says that…and you dont believe in that.”
You have no idea how annoying and condicending that is, and the “holy” bible means nothing to me. you might as well be saying “…but then Harry Potter and The Chamber of Secrets says that…”. The bible has ABSOLUTELY NO credability, historical or scientifically. This is due to many reasons, most due to MASSIVE factual errors, and the fact that it has been edited and altered extensively throughout the centuries.
“So believe in Google or whoever you want.”
So you refuse to spend 5 minutes searching the web to try to educate yourself past what the bible tells you, WOW. Are you that afraid of something challenging your religion?
good luck with the praying, although most of the people that do it for me do it out of love and concern, that doesnt seem to be the case with you.
April 19th, 2007 at 6:12 am
God is a Spirit…he is referred to as “the Father”. Fathers are male…but then you dont believe the bible. So if you want to think God is a female go ahead. But you have been told.
Fluffy Lord…mmm. Victorious, mighty in Battle, the Lion of the Tribe of Judah, strong, able to do exceedingly,abundantly more than you could ever think or ask…
Fluffy…i think not. Thats what religion taught you. He is not a nampy pamby, tip-toe through the tulips God. The bible (yes the one you dont believe)says the earth is His footstool (He rests his feet on the earth). The Heavens declare his glory…fluffy I think not. But then the bible says that and you dont believe…sooooo
EVERYBODY SING WITH ME NOW ” BELIEVE WHAT YOU WANT…OOH OOH…BELIEVE WHAT YOU WILL”
April 19th, 2007 at 6:19 am
Yeah that was a scifi reference, sorry if you didnt get that. I love how you chose you discuss ONE word out of what i wrote.
There has never been any evidence braught forth by any respected scientist to support the idea that theres a god. But you can believe what you want…but youv been told.
April 19th, 2007 at 6:27 am
Oh Irishthunder…do i sense a little irritation. I thought you were a worthy challenger.
I must stress this, I believe in the Word of God as the ultimate authority. It takes precedent over any other book written. I believe in its infallibility.
Googles nice. Lots of info? SHew!!. so much stuff on the web, so much to read and learn. it is really cool and great help for my assignments and general reading…but anytime its topics goes against the word of GOd established before the foundations of the earth,its useless to me, as good as a lie. I understand that you dont accept the bible as a basis for your beliefs…so believe what you want. It does not alter the truth.But you must understand that I base everything on that because i honour God’s word above everything that anyone else wrote. If i see a red light, and God says its green…then uh its green. I know u understand me.
I dont BELIEVE in luck. I believe in the blessing of the Lord. I do believe that God is not a man that he should lie. So your friends’ prayers, my prayers do not fall on deaf ears. A God that loves and cares about you despite your opinions, listens and hears and is right now working out something for you. So if you depend on luck…GOOD LUCK trying to escape the LOrd reeling you in. HE LOVES YOU EVEN IF YOU DONT BELIEVE, IRISHTHUNDER. Try reasoning that away.
April 19th, 2007 at 6:35 am
That right there is your problem you believe in scientists-oh sorry…respected scientists. I believe in He that created the scientists.
And about that appointment with the guy Himself. Every knee shall bow and tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord. It is appointed for man to die once…and then judgement.
So we all get an appointment with him eventually. Oh man, I forgot thats in the bible which you dont believe in. Even me, I have that same appointment except I have already met Him.
You are searching for something Irishthunder-you are definetely looking for truth. I admire that. Keep looking. Seek and you shall find.
April 19th, 2007 at 6:39 am
One of the amazing things about the human mind is that we are able to learn so much and use that knowledge to adapt to the complex universe we live in. To simply say that something is always right and will always be right is just ignorant and sad. And im sure you dont follow everything the bible says, do you stone men with long hair? how bout locking yourself in a room by yourself when you on your period?
“If i see a red light, and God says its green…then uh its green. I know u understand me.”
Good luck arguing that ticket, “no officer, god said it was green”
April 19th, 2007 at 6:43 am
So why would god create scientista that would find evidence to suggest that he didnt exist?
About the seeking, i did that for 7 years and im happy with what iv found.
April 19th, 2007 at 7:07 am
Shew…where i start.Nice joke about the red light…u so bright. LOL!!
Shall I further insult your intelligence with references to the bible (old and new testaments), that you dont believe in. Geez we are going back and forth. How can we debate when we are not on the same page. How can i debate spiritual things with a carnal mind. Your mind is not opened to truth, so its all nonsense to you. We cant agree on this…never. Come up higher, IRISHTHUNDER. Come in deeper. This word of God is foolishness to the world (to you) but this same foolishness confounds the world. That is why this forum is running. Everybody is trying to disprove what was long established.
Anyway..about that stoning men with long hair…uh,say what!!U prp Did you read that in the Bhagavadgitha or perhaps the Koran. Bible…ah ah!
No you are not happy with what you found Irishthunder. If you were you would not be asking questions. Please note that I have not asked any questions because nothing anyone says can convince me otherwise. i am stuck in my belief. Unshaken.Nobody, no scientist, no-one. I dont care which university you attended and how many google searches you did, how much “evidence” you bring forth. I got my mind made up.
So why would god create scientist that would find evidence to suggest that he didnt exist?
Look at you just searching? Its so touching. If you have what you have been looking for, what you still looking for. Dont ask questions, make suggestions/statements rather…because really love, it looks like you looking for something. God created a man with free choice to choose what he wants to believe. Newsflash…scientists dont know every thing. Oh no!! Yes sorry. They dont. And yet still I know of brilliant scientists that have found evidence to prove God’s existence. But they are probably not respected -hey Irishthunder. Probably got their science degree at Wallmart…
April 19th, 2007 at 7:24 am
“Shall I further insult your intelligence with references to the bible”
the only person’s intelligence yout insulting is your own.
I like to learn, thats why i ask questions, you ever notice how the people raising their hands in class did well on the tests? I am also very scientific, so i always have an everchanging curriculum to study. Which scientists do you mean? are they published?
I have to go to class, but im sure by the time i get back sid will have done his damage.
April 19th, 2007 at 7:43 am
Hey big ups to learning. You have a brain and you use it…i aint mad at ya.
Which scientists do you mean? are they published?
Why do you care? YOu have your mind made up right-nothing i say can change your mind. You happy with what you have,right. You said no respected scientist has proved the idea that there is a GOD. SO if any scientist has found proof supporting God’s existence, they are not respected. So you shouldn’t care if they published a thesis or not.
Being “very scientific’ does not mean you have to be a non-believer. Finding and serving God,actually completes (fulfils) all your intelligence. Then not only are you really smart but you are also ‘a sign and a wonder” A living monument.
All the best with your studies.
April 19th, 2007 at 7:56 am
if you say there are scientists out there that have evidence supporting a god i want to hear about. and being published means that they had a good enough study that they actually made it to that point. Being scientific means asking a lot of questions, which is the reason i am no longer a christian.
April 19th, 2007 at 8:18 am
Yes thats true about scientists. Ever seeking, ever learning. That makes you my scientist friend, a perfect candidate for this. God said’…I am a rewarder of those who diligently seek me.” ‘ seek the Lord while he may be found. This world does not need another Christian, that is religion. Religion is mans way of appeasing God. The bible says (we know how you feel about the bible)our righteousness is as filthy rags before the Lord. That is what religion is, our own way, in our own mind, the way we feel its right to do something, our own plans, our own ideologies. God says it stinks the way filthy rags would.
So keep seeking, keep learning…you will find someday. Thats “cause and effect” You do understand that better than I, I’m sure.
April 19th, 2007 at 8:25 am
If you go out seeking god than your biased. You have to look for the TRUTH, ill follow that where it takes me.
April 19th, 2007 at 8:34 am
This world needs more believers…people who acknowledge God and believe in him. Religion sucks. Jesus did not come to start another religion called Christianity. He came to restore man to his original position in God . That is why he preached repentance. Repent from the original Hebrew text means to be restored. In order to restore one’s position, one would have to move from where they are to where they were originally. This is what JESUS taught. He did not come to condemn the world but that the world through Him may have life. He came for all people not only Jews, Greeks, Whites, Blacks, Asian-all people.
So what this world needs is believers. Cats miaow, dogs bark, believers believe-not doubt. That is the biggest problem evident in this forum-lots of religious people, no believers.
GOD BLESS ALL OF YOU, EVEN THE ONES THAT DONT BELIEVE! I’m out…
April 19th, 2007 at 8:41 am
If you go out seeking god than your biased. You have to look for the TRUTH, ill follow that where it takes me.
I was hoping to sign off but looks like you are going to keep me here a while longer.
What I am about to say is based on my belief in the infallibility of Gods word. Therefore, u will not accept it, because you dont believe.
Jesus said ‘I am the way, the truth and the life” If you ask me if you are looking for truth, ask Jesus.He also said “that he is the door,whoever enters in will go in and find pasture” So you must enter through the door that is Jesus Christ so that you can find truth. If He says He is the truth, then let everything else be a lie.
“Behold I have set before you life and death…choose today whom you will serve.” “There is a way that seems right to man, but the end of that way is destruction”
As I said ‘aint nobody forcing you’ CHOOSE!
April 19th, 2007 at 9:09 am
shadesofmester@gmail.com is out.
April 19th, 2007 at 9:41 am
Hello AJ,
I read the first third or so the The Case For Christ about two years ago. I have probably forgotten some of it, so remind me if I miss something.
I found the journalist-turned-Christian Lee Strobel’s reasoning to be too deeply flawed to finish the latter two-thirds. He started by knocking down a straw man. He refutes the idea that the Bible was entirely made up. No serious historians doubt that many of the events in the Bible matches up with history. Furthermore, few atheists deny that a Jewish religious leader named Jesus lived around the time and area described in the Bible.
If I remember correctly, Strobel implies that since the Bible matches with history, it must be true. If he didn’t imply that, it’s certainly the opinion of many Christians I have talked with. The implication simply isn’t true. Elements of Homer’s Iliad and Odyssey matches with history. Yet none of us believe that those stories are completely true. Even today, we have an entire genre of books that match with history, but are not entirely true: historical fiction (I highly recommend The Baroque Cycle by Neal Stephenson). Just as all of us reject the more fantastic aspects of the Iliad and the Odyssey, I reject the more fantastic aspects of the Bible, such as resurrections and virgin births.
The other major logical flaw committed in the book is a false trilemma. The trilemma goes as follows: Since Jesus claimed to be God, he was either lying, crazy, or telling the truth. I remember this being really central to his theses. There is no reason to limit ourselves to the three possibilities that Strobel offers. Jesus could have been honestly mistaken, misquoted, posthumously misrepresented, or, what I find most likely, misinterpreted.
Anyway, don’t take my word for it. There are plenty of online resources that refute The Case for Christ.
April 19th, 2007 at 9:58 am
Well meaning feel the need to write books to convince the world of Jesus Christ. It is okay I guess but certainly not necessary.
God does not need to have his case represented anywhere, to be proven by anyway. His ways are higher than our ways, his thoughts are higher than our thoughts.
Furthermore, few atheists deny that a Jewish religious leader named Jesus lived around the time and area described in the Bible.
atheist are unbelievers-why ask them anything when trying to prove something you believe in. They dont believe.End of story. If I AM LOOKING FOR Jesus, I wont ask an atheist where he is…Jesus would probably have walked right pass them and they wouldn’t know it. They are ever seeing…never perceiving
You can refute whatever you choose to refute. dISbelieve anything you will. Speak to fifty million atheists.
But i do believe one thing they said (atheists), they dont know of any jewish religious leader named jesus. Thats true, jesus was not a religious leader. He slammed them wherever he went, calling them vipers and hyprocrites.
So yes there is no evidence of that.
April 19th, 2007 at 12:22 pm
No matter what you call him, Jesus was a religious leader.
“They are ever seeing…never perceiving”
What exactly does that mean? i know what all the words mean, i just have no idea what your trying to say.
April 19th, 2007 at 1:40 pm
“What exactly does that mean? i know what all the words mean, i just have no idea what your trying to say.”
Exactly what you think it means… nothing. It’s more typical Christian drivel. Always vague and poetic enough to seem like it might mean something, but there’s absolutely no meaningful content in what Janine said.
I’ll translate in 2 sentences anyone can understand.
Don’t argue with atheists about Jesus, they just don’t understand him. Jesus rules.
What a great cop out. Avoid the arguments and speak in riddles about how he exists without giving any reasons to think he does.
If you wish to continue this conversation, how about responding to the very straightforward, eloquent argument Sid put forth.
April 19th, 2007 at 1:47 pm
i hope you didnt scare her off Your Father
April 19th, 2007 at 2:35 pm
Dear Janine ,
Wow, what a warped sense of logic where you can just reiterate the same bullshit everyone else says but in a nice completely distant way. O wow jesus is god god is higher than everything noone who doesnt believe in god would ever understand it but guess fucking what…………. your little religious spoof is about as well thought out as the idea of a centralized religion in which you kill off most of your population for primal instincts any animal has. so heres an idea no just a thought IF YOUR GOING TO FUCKING TALK ABOUT GOD MAKE A FUCKING POINT YOU IGNORANT RELIGIOUS FILTH. thank you and god bless:)
April 19th, 2007 at 5:01 pm
hey just to point one thing out…Christianity is not a religion…its a relationship with God and the only way you can get to God is through Jesus Christ….and you know how everyone says they have a definite knowledge of what is true….you cannot proove that the world came to be by the big bang!!If you can…please do tell
April 19th, 2007 at 5:10 pm
And you cant prove our entire universe was carefully constructed by some old guy. However there is TONS of evidence that supports evolution. If you have anything to prove creationism please present it, and the bible doesnt cut it.
April 19th, 2007 at 5:22 pm
And here we see a newly identified species of religious freak: “Chistas alabelus”, more commonly known as a “thomas”. This startling new phenotype denies that Christianity is a religion. Biologists theorize that Christas alabelus results from a mutation of the Jn316 gene that causes “Christas projectus” to falsely believe that non-religious realms of thought, such as science, humanism, and atheism, are religions.
What remains to be seen is why this phenotype survives. Perhaps its survival value is that it deflects any criticism of religion away from Christianity. If Christianity suffers too much criticism, it is widely believed that all members of the genus Christas would not survive.
April 20th, 2007 at 1:28 am
Hey you all, I am back. On this side of the world some of us have to go to sleep. I see you all have been busy busy busy.
ok
No no IRishthunder…Jesus was not a religious leader. Where do you get your info from? He opposed religion and religious leaders…calling them vipers,hyprocrites. In fact it was the religious leaders that said “crucify Him”. I think they were somewhat like that StaplesMc guy. Crude to the core.
Yo staples, calling me religious is more disgusting than you swearing like a sailor. But I aint mad at ya. Thank God Jesus died for your filthy mouth as well. And all your opinions are just that, your opinions.
Thomas, u are a bright guy-a sign and a wonder. Keep serving Jesus.
Your Father- those words were taken out of the bible …Jesus said it about the religious leaders of that time…ever seeing…never perceiving. Another word for perceive is discern. Does this make it easier for you. Loosely translated -you see but you dont get it. Jesus said your eyes are blinded. The blind leading the blind.
Irishthunder-come on -you know what i am going to say about this already. Why do you ask? I believe in Creation cos God said he created everything. Gosh! Come on… I dont care what Darwin said and whoever else- the same way you dont care what God said. Gee we have to find some common ground first before we can debate. Sigh!!
Hey Sid…did ya google search all that mumbo jumbo? Who care? There will always be those that follow Christ. The truth is GUYS, you cant get rid of us. God knows many have tried and failed. Jesus is still being preached, followers are still being born.
I am not here to argue what i know to be true but really just to irritate you all-intensely. GOD MY FATHER HAS NOTHING TO PROVE!!!
April 20th, 2007 at 2:10 am
@janine
I get it, god has nothing to prove and he needs no help from people and all that, so why do you still try to prove instead of god and help to spread the ‘knowledge’?
I am really feeling sorry for you. You do not seem to be able to follow what you preach and that is quite common with religious people.
Oh, sorry about that, you say you are not religious,
“calling me religious is more disgusting than you swearing like a sailor.”
you have no belief and reverence to a deity. How do you do that? You babble on about jesus and god but you do not believe in either?
When ever I meet people who spout off their convictions in a fashion you have done here, I wonder if I need to call help. The opposing claims and near froth-mouthed exhortation of ones faith is exactly what is wrong with the believers.
Slow down, think, pray even if that supplant thinking in your books. Then do that all again few times before acting. Works for me as I try not to get swept by strong emotions and act rashly.
If you truly believe god needs no one to defend himself, then please do so, do not try to validate your beliefs by badgering people who are not interested.
If you disagree with history and of an existence of a religious leader then offer sources where people can verify your claims.
That intellectual streak which is very strong in people. They desire more than one source of information, specially when that source seems bit incoherent.
Then a little bit which has always troubled be in regards the pushy religious types, the fourth commandment,
“You shall not make wrongful use of the name of your God”,
Why do you keep on using his name in vain? It is used like it is worth nothing, god this, god hates, god that, god judges, god blah blah blaa.
Why cannot you obey his orders and keep his name ‘holy’?
April 20th, 2007 at 2:28 am
Hi Jaganath
I stated before- I believe in the Father, the son and the holy ghost. I believe that Jesus was born of a virgin, lived, was crucified and rose again and that through his death on the cross and his resurrection, I have life. I live, I move, I breath -its all in Him. I believe that God created the universe (known and unknown). I believe that God is Supreme and there is no other like Him. I gather with other believers (what you call church)I believe that everything GOd needed to do has been done that is why I say ‘ he doesn’t need to prove Himself” I love God and do my best to follow his commands. I was born a Christian (in a religious sense) but I found God and and that my righteousness lies in him. I pray, I fast when i need to, i sing and dance before the Lord and worship unto HIm. I am not religious. I am in a relationship with the Most HIgh God. I love Him and made a decision four years ago to live for Him. It is something personal-a decision one makes on their own by choosing to believe.
I admire and respect intellectual thinkers but not above what I believe God had done and said as HE has revealed himself to me. That is why I refuse to bring any kind of evidence of God’s existence to this forum. No matter what I say, or what I show…you will not believe because you dont want to.
And as for “badgering people who are not interested” If you are not interested…why are there 117 postings since September? Why are you on a subject for so long that you have no interest in?
Religion stinks…it keeps people in bondage. But Jesus has come that you may have life and have life to the full…It is for freedom that CHrist has made me free.
April 20th, 2007 at 3:33 am
@janine
Well, that explains a lot to me. The fact that you found god and all the trappings of faith explains your exuberant and philippic testimony. It is common, tiresome but very common. I have done lots of work with people with similar views and I generally try to avoid it nowadays if possible, it is just too tiresome. You cannot listen one song all day long without it getting on your nerves.
You lamentably show the signs of pride in your words as you profess to know much of other people from few lines of texts. You claim,
“you will not believe because you dont want to.”
and it makes me wonder where do you get that information of me and of others unless it is your own decision? I admit, I use at times wordings which can be judgmental but then again I do not claim any great belief in a belief system which puts that as a sin.
I for example am willing to change my views if given enough credible evidence, which shows that I am mistaken in my views but can you offer such evidence?
I believe you cannot do such thing, not because you would not have faith in something but because you have nothing to show about it.