It is widely accepted amongst Christians that Jesus was crucified and died for our sins. Actually, it’s accepted by ALL Christians because that’s a pretty important part of Christianity. If Jesus didn’t die for our sins, then Christianity would be rather screwed. But is it possible that Jesus didn’t die for our sins?
Not only is it possible, but its true! Jesus fled Jerusalem, leaving his brother to be crucified in his place. Jesus made his way across Russia and Siberia until he reached his final destination of Aomori in the far north of Japan. Here, Jesus gave up the life he once knew and settled as a rice farmer. He eventually married, had a family, and lived to the ripe old age of 114.
Don’t believe it? Well you can go see for yourself and talk one of his actual descendants - a Mr Sajiro Sawaguchi or his grandson Junichiro Sawaguchi, whose family just happens to be Buddhist.
By this point, I’m sure my Christian readers are just stunned and possibly even mortified. On one hand you have Jesus never dying for your sins, but on the other you have an opportunity to meet his descendants. Not a bad deal if you ask me!
Thanks go out to Itanshi for this one!
Related posts:
- Hasta La Vista Baby Jesus
- Jesus Freaks–The Documentary
- Madonna Died For Your Sins
- Muslim Crucifies Christian Slave
- Existence Of Jesus On Trial
May 5th, 2008 at 9:05 am
Hello Jack,
Thanks for the apology, it is much appreciated. I can understand the heat of the debate going to your head. It’s happened to me a number of times.
I actually read Lewis’s Mere Christianity about half a year ago and enjoyed it very much. I read part of Strobel’s The Case for Christ a while ago and didn’t much care for the bit that I did read. I wrote up a three-part review of Mere Christianity on my blog. Here is the link to the third part which contains links to the first two parts. In part 2, I even compare the two books. Feel free to read and leave comments there if you like.
I’ve never heard of On The Incarnation by St. Athanasius. I’ll look into it. Can you provide any links to get me started?
May 5th, 2008 at 8:27 am
sidfaiwu,
My appologies. I was biased and you make good points.
I am sorry for putting down your intellect, that was a mistake. I got caught up in the heat of the controversy and acted like the hypocritcal, self-righteous Bible thumpers that I despise. I will read the book you suggested. Can I suggest you check out “Mere Christianity” by C.S. Lewis, “On The Incarnation” by St. Athanasius and “The Case for Christ” by Lee Strobel (or at least just the last one). If you could show that those are untrue, then you will have me convinced.
Again, sorry for offense.
May 2nd, 2008 at 12:32 pm
Hello Jack,
It seems much of your comment is aimed at me. Please allow me to respond. First, you seem to be of the opinion that I think the original post is true. I do not. I find it just as absurd as the resurrection story itself.
Pedantic but correct; at least according to Paul.
Care to back that up? What other records can we compare his writings to? Is it possible that 1,500 years of Catholic hegemony caused the destruction of differing accounts?
Purely subjective.
You’re presuming a lot about my education level on the topic here. I also suspect that this statement is meant as an insult and not really an inquiry into my level of knowledge. But insults aside, I never claimed expertise.
No, it would only be unfair to the readers if tried to pass my guess off as fact. I identified my suspicion as a guess right away. Here are the reasons for my suspicion:
1. The 500+ witnesses are mentioned nowhere in any other accounts of the same event, including the gospels. One would think that if such strong evidence were available for the event then every believer would have mentioned this fact.
2. None of the other 500+ witnesses wrote a first-hand account about the event. If so many people saw, as you put it, “the most important detail in the history of humanity” one would think that at least some of them would find it important enough to write it down.
3. Eye witnesses are unreliable. Paul is the only first hand account of the 500+. He could be a victim of any number of cognitive fallacies, including confirmation bias, déformation professionnelle, irrational escalation, selective perception, cryptomnesia, or just plan false memories.
4. Paul didn’t mention the 500+ in any of his other letters. Again, with such strong evidence at his disposal, one would think that he’d use it more than once.
Perhaps I’m wrong. Perhaps the 500+ reference was inserted into his letters to the Corinthians by the Catholic Church when they had a monopoly on Bible translation and transcription. See Misquoting Jesus by Bart D. Ehrman to learn just how bad the Church was at accuracy. In fact, considering point 4, I now find this more likely then my original guess.
Correction are welcome, if you can back them up. Like I wrote earlier, this isn’t my area of expertise. It is only an area of interest.
By the way, your ‘defense’ of the martyrs-make-it-true argument is so transparently inadequate that it’s not worth addressing.
May 2nd, 2008 at 9:41 am
“There were witnesses who saw Him after His resurrection”
Well there you have it, theres no question, because we all know how reliable eye-witnesses are…
“His crucifixion is historical fact and anyone who denies this is too lazy to do their research”
The only thing history states is that there was a guy named jesus, and he was executed by crucifiction. Everything else is speculation, including pretty much the entire christian bible.
“It’s almost like assassinating Barak Obama but then finding out that it was a stand-in”
No, no it isn’t. Why? because that would happen in the age where everyone has at least one type of camera on them at all times.
May 2nd, 2008 at 8:54 am
If Jesus was not crucified, then He couldn’t have been raised from the dead. There are over 300 references in the New Testament that refer to Jesus’ return; He will return because He never died (there is ever a study of His return specifically: eschatology). There were witnesses who saw Him after His resurrection, and the tomb that He was buried in was empty. If anyone would have reason to take the body, it would be either His enemies to drag it out and show His death to all or His followers. His body was never waved around by the pharisees and tax collectors and fishermen could not have overwhelmed a Roman sentry and removed the massive stone that covered the entrance. So now either He was buried and rose again or He never died. There are Roman records of crucifying a ‘Jesus of Nazareth’ and Roman philosophers that allude to His death, even though they themselves deny His deity. Everyone back then knew He died because He was the most controversial topic. His crucifixion is historical fact and anyone who denies this is too lazy to do their research (or they go to other people who tell them what they want to hear and have done no real research of their own). There is no substantial evidence that Jesus’ brother (not John the Baptist, he was already beheaded) was crucified instead. (People would have been able to tell that it wasn’t Jesus up on the cross. It’s almost like assassinating Barak Obama but then finding out that it was a stand-in. His face and speech are too recognizable since he has been in the spot light in front of crowds of people. Everyone knew Jesus’ face, and He obviously wasn’t a ‘Holy Twin’ or anything.)
—-”If I’m not mistaken, 500 witnesses are only mentioned in one verse, I Corinthians 15:6. If so many people did see the posthumously animate Jesus, you’d think it be mentioned a little more often in the Bible. My guess is that Paul made up this number to artificially add credibility to his beliefs.
“his apostles were martyred and tortured for something if they knew it was a lie.â€
So a willingnesses to die for one’s beliefs is the criteria we should use to determine the validity of said belief? Hmm… Let’s see, many Jews died during the various inquisitions through the centuries. By your reasoning, the Jewish faith must be the correct one. I mean, why would so many die for a lie? Similarly, there are plenty of Muslim martyrs in recent history. Using the same logic, the Muslims must be right. Why would they blow themselves up for a lie?” —- (sidfaiwu, post 218)
First of all, 500+ witnesses and Cephas and the twelve disciples and James and all the apostles and Paul himself.
But of course how could we believe all that just because he said so? Paul has no record of false information in any of his letters so why would he begin with the most important detail in the history of humanity? That’s all you have is your uneducated and limited “guess?” That is unfair to the readers. The Muslims blow themselves up for a lie because that is their ’salvation.’ Not literally of course, but they will get rewarded from that by Allah. They might still be afraid to die but they go through with it. Christians are not afraid of death, it has no threat to us.
The emo cults want to die (Satan wills it) and who do they want to meet…Satan. (Substitute Allah with Satan.) Christians do not want to die, they are just not afraid to die. How can others be shown the truth if we are all up in Heaven with The Father in Glory?
April 4th, 2008 at 5:24 am
Religion is to establish order in this world. If there are multiple religions, things get out of order. The only way there could be order is if we all followed one religion. Wow, religion seems like an elaborate plan to take over the world! That means that some one could make the ultimate religion
So what’s it gonna be?
April 3rd, 2008 at 7:08 pm
Ya know what? Believing in farytales is a good idea.
http://www.relentlessrunner.com/index/Fairytales
April 3rd, 2008 at 7:02 pm
It feels like you’ll never find the truth. If you think you have, how will you know? You can believe everything, you can believe nothing. If you believe everything, you’ll lose touch with what you once thought was reality but there’s always people there that’ll tell you that you’re wrong and what can you say to defend yourself? I don’t know. I wonder what its like to believe anything.
January 2nd, 2008 at 9:16 am
And what if that our ‘maker’ turns out to be Brahma, the Hindu god of creation? Or the God of the Qur’an? I mean you cannot say you were never told. Then, of course there are the hundreds, perhaps thousands of other gods that humans have invented over the centuries that you may not have been told about. Why do you assume that Bible-God is the correct one?
January 1st, 2008 at 11:35 pm
At this point there is only one thing left to say, when you stand in front of your maker unfortunately you cannot say you were never told. If it never happens, that is great for you but think about how you will feel if it does. There is no point in arguing with you.
January 1st, 2008 at 6:41 am
yh even if jesus bro was put on the cross god wouls still be piss of ya fuckin prick and no one could live to 114 in them days fuckin hell are you 1 stupid prick or what
September 1st, 2007 at 9:22 am
Well, I believe I’m Lord and Master of the purple-trunked jumping snails.
I know i am, just shut up and believe me!
====================================================
I’m trying, but I just can’t get anywhere near the absurdity of the bible.
Tell me something, all of you religious people here. If god is all-powerfull, why didn’t he just forgive the sins? Why not say “Hey, it’s ok now” instead of torturing his own son? That doesn’t sound very benevolent to me.
September 1st, 2007 at 7:50 am
Jesus DIED for my sins, i believe it….
you said that not Jesus, but His brother was crusified??
do you think it’s easy to died on cross??
NO one want to died on cross except THE SON of GOD…
JESUS…
i believe in His name,,
and you…
just…close your mouth and pray
July 30th, 2007 at 10:13 am
there once was a man named Harry he liked to smell flowers. The day that he became a god of all people he blew his shit on some random girls face. As she looked up to see who did this carzy act she saw that is was her god and thanked him for his kind nice. He soon moved on to see that there were some children playing at a play ground. he walked over to see if he could koin in. Harry bent over to grab on of the kids shovles and then licked it with his mouth. once he finished he task of blessing the childs shove he, looked up at the little girl standing beside him and said, “I am god i will tell you what to do from now on. you will look at me when i talk to you, you will talk to me when told, if i tell you to jump of a cliff you will do so. if i were to tell you to smell your foot and then eat your toe you will have to do that as well. I am your commander of all things.” As Harry finished his statement he started his hike up the hill and saw a snake that he wanted to sit next too, so he sat.
July 26th, 2007 at 7:27 pm
If Ben really know how to read his bible, he would know that Jesus didn’t crusifed, and Muslims presented the evidence from the bible itself that Jesus didn’t crusified, if you want the evidence I will be gald to show you the links for the video.
God said in Quran about the people of the book(jews and christians), they are like donkey who carry books, but he doesn’t know what the book contains, which I found really acurrate.
July 26th, 2007 at 11:20 am
Hello Ben,
If I’m not mistaken, 500 witnesses are only mentioned in one verse, I Corinthians 15:6. If so many people did see the posthumously animate Jesus, you’d think it be mentioned a little more often in the Bible. My guess is that Paul made up this number to artificially add credibility to his beliefs.
“his apostles were martyred and tortured for something if they knew it was a lie.”
So a willingnesses to die for one’s beliefs is the criteria we should use to determine the validity of said belief? Hmm… Let’s see, many Jews died during the various inquisitions through the centuries. By your reasoning, the Jewish faith must be the correct one. I mean, why would so many die for a lie? Similarly, there are plenty of Muslim martyrs in recent history. Using the same logic, the Muslims must be right. Why would they blow themselves up for a lie?
Since pretty much all religions have martyrs, dieing for one’s belief is no reason to accept those beliefs ans true.
July 26th, 2007 at 8:59 am
haha yeah i know this is a joke thing still…
praise Jesus that He has power over death. His name is above all names.
sorry mate, i dont see how apostle Paul could say that 500 ppl saw Jesus, and his apostles were martyred and tortured for something if they knew it was a lie. especially the pharisee turned apostle who once hunted Christians.
July 23rd, 2007 at 11:46 pm
“is because theyre buddhist!”
yes, because the Buddhists have such a long history of attacking other religions. In the words of Penn Jillette “READ THE BIBLE!! why? because the world needs more atheists”
July 23rd, 2007 at 11:09 pm
Shannon and Joey, perhaps you should read the article that the post above linked to and read some of the comments on this site before (as some Australians like to fondly say) going off half cocked.
Cheers
Simon Bond
July 23rd, 2007 at 10:29 pm
what the crap! the only reason those “decendents” didnt think he died for our sins is because theyre buddhist! duh. theyre going to say that. I know that Jesus died for my sins as well as yours. I guess when you die…you’ll realize im right…
this is freaking wrong
July 23rd, 2007 at 10:00 pm
Yes Jesus died 4 my sins i know he did. this story is completely incorrect ha siberia u all r ill minded i suggest u get ur life strate and read the Bible only then will u understand these things and keep ur ill minded theries 2 your self, and if were tru(its not) how do we contact these so called decendants???? excactly God bless you but get your facts strate.
July 19th, 2007 at 4:13 am
So, elaborate on how atheists use science in ways that you do not like it?
July 18th, 2007 at 6:24 pm
I don’t why every ethiest think that we are bashing science, we are bashing the way you are using science, I like computers and I like so many techonolgies out there, but the way you are using science that we don’t like.
July 18th, 2007 at 6:15 pm
And of course, because i’m an idiot, I hotlinked it and it’s broken. And because it should have worked, here’s the file on imageshack.
http://img376.imageshack.us/my.php?image=20070520whenimkingmz5.png
July 18th, 2007 at 6:12 pm
To add a little visualisation to what ChineseGirl said:
http://www.wellingtongrey.net/miscellanea/archive/2007-05-20–when-im-king.png
July 18th, 2007 at 11:24 am
I think it’s ironic that a lot of you are bashing science, yet the very thing that is connecting all of us right now is the Internet. Right now, you’re typing on your little keyboard on your computer that runs millions of tasks per second how much you hate science and think it’s going to destroy everything, but you’re exploiting it for your own amusement.
So my advice to you is throw your computer, steal a quill from a bird, learn to make ink from berries, and then write a letter of complaint to the scientific community for how much science has ruined the world. Make sure you make your paper too.
July 6th, 2007 at 7:03 pm
Comment 206 can be summed as, “I don’t understand biology. Praise Jesus.” with a little bit of “singularities make no sense” thrown in. The last part is kind of funny, coming from a Christian, if you think about it. Singularities are difficult to conceive of because they are infinite energy/volume, yet Christian blithely accept an infinite God. Why is one instance of infinity “simply rubbish” yet another must be accepted without question?
Anyway, no one here seriously thinks that Jesus up an left for Japan and had kids. It’s just an article about some freaks who do.
July 6th, 2007 at 3:27 pm
About the darwin theory, how could we have possibly evolved from monkeys? How could monkeys develop reasoning? Only humans have the power to reason, and God gave us that. The Big Bang theory is simple rubbish. If there was nothing, how could there be a small singularity in that infinite nothingness? I don’t know everything, but I know that Jesus died for me and he didn’t leave for Japan.
May 14th, 2007 at 8:05 pm
“Do I believe Jesus died for my sins? Yes, I do. Why? Because I’ve experienced far too much for it to be untrue. Far, far too much. Some of the things I’ve experienced are too hard to explain to someone who has never had the experience”
I don’t deny you’ve experience many things. If you’d believed in Woden you would’ve experienced many things. Your frame of reference means you interpret things as being in agreement with your catholic faith. It doesn’t, however vouch for existence of god or jesus, they still remain myth.
May 14th, 2007 at 3:05 pm
You know, I am interested in finding more out about this legend. Personally, I am a Catholic, and pretty devout in my faith. I know what I believe and always question my beliefs.
I actually stumbled upon this site when finding humor because of that British “priest” saying Jesus was a great magician. If you can’t laugh at yourself, who can you laugh at, right?
Do I believe Jesus died for my sins? Yes, I do. Why? Because I’ve experienced far too much for it to be untrue. Far, far too much. Some of the things I’ve experienced are too hard to explain to someone who has never had the experience.
Even if you don’t care, may God bless you.
May 14th, 2007 at 1:42 pm
You pray with that mouth?
May 14th, 2007 at 1:36 pm
Fuck you, Jesus died for my sins, and if you don’t believe that, go fuck yourself and when your done, fuck your mom Bitch
April 26th, 2007 at 3:38 pm
The basis of my biblical knowledge comes from our school system and the thirteen years of religion classes. The religion had nothing to do with faith but it was on lower levels just teaching the Lutheran prayers and other functions and with age it turned into a more detailed overview of religions. The scope was to cover all the major ones and little of lesser ones.
After school, I have merely talked about it with few theologians, priests and other people with information of it. I do try to get my hands on various versions of bibles to see the full gamut of differences there really is. So, for most parts after school, I am self-taught or instructed by professionals over a cup of coffee or a meal.
Of books, I do not know if there is any particular book that would be apart of others. I do enjoy history books in general and in conjunction with bible.
Platos De anima was quite interesting in giving a concept what a soul could be if one believes in one.
Saint Thomas Aquinas is also quite interesting to read but of biblical books I am at loss.
I have been trying to read Julius Wellhausens books but reading with a dictionary on one hand is slow work. Translations are not quite as rewarding as original text as I found out with Vulgate.
I have been wanting to get Targum Onkelos on my hands also but my Aramean is non-existent so would be mere a curiosity.
But, I cannot claim very great knowledge of bible as I know people who would run circles around be with their knowledge. Funnily enough they are not religious either.