While in Germany at Regensburg University, Pope Benedict wanted to explore the historical and philosophical differences between Islam and Christianity, and the relationship between violence and faith. Although he meant well it didn’t go over so smooth. The problems started when he saw it fit to quote Emperor Manual II Paleologos of the Byzantine Empire. I don’t know exactly who that is, but apparently it struck a chord with Muslims worldwide. It goes a little something like this…
Show me just what Muhammad brought that was new and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached.
Now I’m no sure where that ranks on the Islamic Freak-Out-And-Riot Scale, but I’d imagine it’s up there. Maybe not to the level of the Danish cartoons, which sparked global chaos and a few hundred deaths, but up there. The head of the Muslim Brotherhood confirmed that the remarks "aroused the anger of the whole Islamic world".
Now there are two important aspects I’d like comments on. First, is their any truth to what the Pope said? Secondly, are Muslims too irrational and overly violent in their reactions? Actually I’ll add a third. Is the Pope just an evil Emperor?
Thanks again Itanshi for the tip on this one!
UPDATE: Houston, We Have Riots!!!
These were taken in India
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“are Muslims too irrational and overly violent in their reactions?”
Does the pope wear a pointy hat?
Pope: Muslims are violent.
Muslims: How dare you call us violent. We shall kill 1000 infidels for every freckle on the pope’s ass for calling us violent.
…are Muslims too irrational and overly violent in their reactions?
I think in all fairness, the violent muslims respond with the best and perhaps only tool they have: violence. They seem irrational to us, but to each other and other guerilla/rebel/anachist groups they make perfect sense. This is hardly reason for those of us in the western world to look at them condescendingly – we make perfect sense to each other. Society is relative, the norm is relative, the environment you grow up in is paramount to your personality.
Plenty of liberal and non-violent muslims abound I’m sure, our friend Muhammed whom answered some questions about islam is a great example.
We need less pointing-the-finger and spot-the-faults and more understanding and tolerance I think. Muslim people are just people who follow a different faith.
“Show me just what Muhammad brought that was new and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached.”
Yes, well of course you can say that. Christianity never did anything like that. The crusades were just to defend some land that was allready ours.
“are Muslims too irrational and overly violent in their reactions?”
The people who actually blow up busses and kill because of some cartoon are just using Islam for their benifit and as an excuse,no muslim i know will ever approve bombing and killing.
> First, is their any truth to what the Pope said?
The pope was quoting, and as such, the nature of the quote needs to be taken in context. From TFA:
“Benedict said “I quote” twice to stress the words were not his and added that violence was “incompatible with the nature of God and the nature of the soul”.
This would indicate it was a quote that was not necessarily compatible with his own point of view, in which case the comment is being blown ridiculously out of proportion.
Secondly, are Muslims too irrational and overly violent in their reactions?
As a relativist, I find nothing wrong at a theoretical level with violence. If one society deems it ok, then it is ok within that society, it might not be in others. It would be wrong to judge someone from a different society for this reason.
Actually I’ll add a third. Is the Pope just an evil Emperor?
As with all emperors, how we view them in history depends on how successful they are at taking over the continent/world/galaxy/universe. Making lightning appear from your hands is also important obviously :)
Dave
For all those who say “Different societies, different norms. Violence should be accepted there.” I disagree.
The world is shrinking at increasing speed, different societies are becoming one society, the human race will soon be ONE society(internet anybody?) I personally see the problem as the following: Islamic imams(the ones giving lectures in the mosque) say one thing almost every week on friday “America is evil, we must fight them, death to the infidel opressors.”
Wether it is true that the usa is opressing other countries is another debate, but for gods sake, considering lebanon’s attacks on israel a victory is completly crazy. israel lost less than a hundred men(citizens/soldiers) and lebanon lost over 1100. Who is mad enough to get into a war with brute force without getting some technology/organization to stand up to the enemy? Obviously, people who think that God(or any other Deity) is fighting on their side do.
Here comes the violent part, “We are right, and for the love of our god we must show the word that we are right, if they will not see it we will kill them”
Is this limited to islam? theoretically it isn’t, but practically most other religions don’t seem to say “we must go back to the old ways” thus having the parents more focused on teaching the children “good” religion than telling them that there is more than one solar system around(i had a fight about that in my islamic junior high, and even the teacher thought there is only one sun in every galaxy!)
In my opinion, Violence disappears when you have more effective ways to express yourself. In the islamic world bullies are very common, and it is bullies who turn into extremists/fundamentalists because it gives them some kind of higher social level.
Conclusion: give people something to compete with other than violence and many of them will do so, geeks compete who writes the best virus, nerds who solves an 5th degree equation first, jocks compete in sports and getting the hottest girlfriends. What do fundamentalists compete in? making those f***ing infidels see the light of $deity, often through violence if they feel that their religion is opressed(because they don’t know other ways).
Sorry for making it so long, but studying for a math exam for a week makes you rejoice in writing some human understandable sentences.
Sorry, must disagree with what seems like a very “fox news” point of view.
> For all those who say “Different societies, different norms. Violence should be accepted there.†I disagree.
You miss my point. Violence exists in all societies, whether it be religious fanaticism, alcohol induced, poverty related, nationalist fervor or whatever. It is part of the natural human psyche. What we must avoid doing is judging people in other societies based on our view of what are legitimate reasons to use violence, because they have different reasons which we dont understand.
> Islamic imams(the ones giving lectures in the mosque) say one thing almost every week on friday “America is evil, we must fight them, death to the infidel opressors.â€
RIDICULOUS. I accept that there are some like that, but there are many more who are decent upstanding people who believe strongly in their faith – want to make the world a better place and (as they see it) prepare people for an eternity with God.
> Wether it is true that the usa is opressing other countries is another debate.
I see it as a core issue of the entire point. America, with its fundamentalist leader, is trying to inflict its personal agenda on other people around the world through violence. Just because they have bigger guns doesnt mean it’s any more legitimate an approach than others struggling against America’s hegemony.
> considering lebanon’s attacks on israel a victory is completly crazy. israel lost less than a hundred men(citizens/soldiers) and lebanon lost over 1100.
Again, numbers arent particularly relevant. What’s important is the victory of ideaology. Isreal killed a whole bunch of civilians, and failed in their main objective in returning their two captured soldiers and destroying Hezbullah. Hezbullah succeeded in that they caused significant military casualties, held on to their prisoners and manipulated world opinion to force israel to cease their campaign.
In Iraq, close on 3000 us soldiers have died, with many tens or possibly hundreds of thousands of Iraqis have died. America is still a long way from winning the war though, and is in fact inching towards defeat. Again, a victory for the ideaology (whether you agree with the ideaology or not is irrelevant)
> Violence disappears when you have more effective ways to express yourself.
I think this is incredibly important. Developing ways to express yourself is predicated on education, and education also tends to leads towards intercultural understanding. Education is also critical to developing wealth, and wealthy people dont like going to fight wars. In short, education is key to solving the societal schism.
Dave
Sadly, it seems we live in a world where the Muslims can launch their tirades of angst and detritus – citing Jihad and death to all westerners – and that’s ok… As soon as the West says anything to offend them however.. Its a different story.
I say to hell with them – let them get all shitty about it – maybe they will actually come out and fight us like warriors for once instead of the cowardly terrorist tactics they have used to date.
> fight us like warriors for once instead of the cowardly terrorist tactics
So you think the guys with ak47s and grenade launchers should take on f16s, long range missiles and satellite based targetting? Just because they are less well equipped doesnt make them stupid.
terrorist tactics: tactics used when your military is unable to stand up to that of your opponents.
Dave
Is the Pope just an evil emperor?
It depends on your measuring stick. If you measure him by Christian values, he’s really good. If you measure his morality by the number of humans his actions have harmed, he’s a vicious tyrant.
Among his misdeeds: condemning condom usage intensifying African AIDS; demanding that unwanted pregnancies not be aborted; endorsing prejudice against homosexuality; pissing off Muslims, which could get a lot of us killed; hating on life-saving science; and misleading the children into his dangerous faith-based rather than evidence-based way of thinking.
Good or evil? He’s somewhere in the middle. He means well, but he is stupid. He thinks hurting these people is an unfortunate byproduct of making his god happy.
Not really an un-expected reaction from certain groups.
At least he is not calling for a holy war on all easterners and asking God to wipe Iran from the face of the earth.
> terrorist tactics: tactics used when your military is unable to stand up to that of your opponents.
0.o
No – terrorist tactics is for cowards and those who are weak and cannot stand up against a conventional army. They rely on us following the rules while they flaunt them and specifically target innocents.
You are in denial if you think otherwise.
> No – terrorist tactics is for cowards and those who are weak and cannot stand up against a conventional army.
As with sadly, you insist on calling those who blow themselves up cowards or other ignorant phrases. Killing onesself goes against the most basic psychological instincts that each of us posesses from birth, and overcoming that fear of death takes a lot more than “cowardice”. But instead of trying to understand the sociological conditions that cause these people to commit acts contrary to their very being, you simply degrade them, meaning that you will never stop causing the situations that create such hatred against the west. The solution lies in creating a world where the top nations actually deal in a fair and equitable way with all people, no matter their race, sex or religious persuasion.
> They rely on us following the rules
Us???
“us” as in the “us” that holds people for years without trial in guantanemo bay? “us” as in “us” who use white phosphorus in civilian areas? “us” as in “us” who stand idly by while Israel cluster bombs civilian areas in the mostly christian lebanon? “us” who ignores a thousand other violations of international treaties all while lapping up democracy tv ™?
I live in the west, I grew up with the ideaology of fairness and equality, but I have no interest in being part of your “us”. I want a world where every person, no matter where they were born or what colour or sex they have has an equal chance to live their lives to the utmost. And that doesnt come from selectively applying the values we claim as our most basic rights.
Dave
Ouch:
play some RTS for god’s sake. i just finished a nice round of StarCraft which i won by hijacking the battle cruisers which my economically superior enemy built. is that war or terror? of course in the game the guys in the airplane don’t complain, but in real life this would be terrorism.
Skyclad:
>Violence exists in all societies, whether it be
>religious fanaticism, alcohol induced, poverty related, nationalist fervor or whatever. It is part of the
>natural human psyche. What we must avoid doing is
> judging people in other societies based on our view of
>what are legitimate reasons to use violence, because
> they have different reasons which we dont understand.
Violence is part of human nature? hell yes!
but my point was, we should not allow violence to be portraied as something good.
>RIDICULOUS. I accept that there are some like that, but
>there are many more who are decent upstanding people who
> believe strongly in their faith – want to make the
>world a better place and (as they see it) prepare people
> for an eternity with God.
Sorry that i have to say this, but i used to frequent mosques here in israel, 9 out of 10 times they used to say something like this about some country(usually usa or israel.) also, islamic TV in the middle east is full with things like this.
>Just because they have bigger guns doesnt mean it’s any
>more legitimate an approach than others struggling
>against America’s hegemony.
struggle people, and fight till the very end, but only if you CAN win the game! don’t get into a fight you have no chance of winning. miss this fight, prepare better next time and make a difference then!
>Hezbullah succeeded in that they caused significant
>military casualties, held on to their prisoners and
>manipulated world opinion to force israel to cease their
>campaign.
True, but don’t call it a victory! what i saw was a massacre(spelling?) that israel did in lebanon. Calling whatever happened there in the end a victory kinda takes the reality out of it in order to make Hezbollah look stronger.
>I think this is incredibly important. Developing ways to
>express yourself is predicated on education, and
>education also tends to leads towards intercultural
>understanding. Education is also critical to developing
>wealth, and wealthy people dont like going to fight
>wars. In short, education is key to solving the societal
>schism.
That was my point, couldn’t have said it any better:D
> play some RTS for god’s sake. i just finished a nice round of StarCraft which i won by hijacking the battle cruisers which my economically superior enemy built.
Was all up for some dawn of war earlier, but my victim left the office early. Has to play some quake instead.
> True, but don’t call it a victory! what i saw was a massacre that israel did in lebanon.
Sorry. What I was referring to as “victory” was the achievement of the goals of the participating sides in the conflict. Israel failed to achieve its goals, Hezbollah were more successful. The fact that many people died is one of the unfortunate realities of war.
@sadly
i completely agree. once again, its only the politically correct elements in the western societies that are going to give this any thought. for once, the pope isnt that far from the truth. look at the natality rate of the muslim world. thats how they can get away with fighting a technologicaly superior enemy. but that is also how they are going to run us all over. i consider all religion to be an afront and a danger to the civilized world, and a great danger to all of us. but by far on TOP of that list is definitely islam. they are the most aggresive, they breed the quickest, and they want to change the way we live. i have seen it first hand in the former yugoslavia (parts of which are still a safe haven for militant idiots from the arab world), and its happened all over the world (serbia and kosovo, checnya, israel etc.) the western world is top dog right now. muslim world needs to either stop being a danger to the top dog or be eaten. no other way. whether that is just or not, NOONE CARES!!! and to all the freaks in the USA, those who want to further degrade our educational system: look at the muslims… that is how were gonna be in near future if our kids start learning fairy tales in school…
what a load of crap! I was told as a kid that truth hurts. It sure does fella! What have the muslims done to ‘assist’ our modern society. Absolutely nothing. They benifit from our advanced technology, use it to abuse the so called infidels and expect us (in the west) to tolerate their primitive, voilant (the pope is this time correct) and backward thinking philosophy. I believe that its not in the human gene to be voilant, however if there ever was a catalyst to reverse this non-human attribute then surely ANY sort of religion would encourage this. Look at human history, this has been proven time and time again. Unfortunately it will continue. “Fight the good fight with all thy might” I was forced to sing as a kid in a christian society, but who can tell me what the “good fight” is. I still believe in the sincerity of mankind but without religion in any form. Lennons “Imagine” elaborates this fact.
Mayhaps the pope’s comments will incite a riot on the religious freaks message boards.
I agree that education is the long term solution. Things are bound to change anyway, because it’s going to be harder as time passes to be isolated and therefore hateful of the outside world. But it’s going to take a long, long time. Education is one of the major things we can invest in to make this happen faster.
Let’s hope that the Muslims will attack the Catholics, maybe fly a plane into the Vatican. And Catholics fly a plane into Mecca. And they both go at it in one Holy Jihad. If both sides kill each other off, then the world would be better off. Two birds with one stone. Both groups are full of themselves, close minded and insecure. Threatened by reality and logical thinking. They both need to be eradicated off the face of the planet. It’s a blessing in disguise if the Pope’s ignorant superiority complex triggers conflict between the two “great” (not) religions. So come on you diaper heads, the Pope’s insulted your people, time to retaliate. I don’t think the Pope mobile is armoured plated. That would be glorious television. And if his God exists and yours don’t, then you won’t be successful
Dave – I’d be very happy if all the folk like yourself left “our” society and moved to Asia – let me know just how welcoming your muslim friends there are and send me a postcode once youve assimilated…
Good luck.
What have the muslims done to ‘assist’ our modern society. Absolutely nothing. They benifit from our advanced technology, use it to abuse the so called infidels and expect us (in the west) to tolerate their primitive, voilant (the pope is this time correct) and backward thinking philosophy.
Whoa whoa whoa! Now that’s some close mided mentality there Dave… after all what have you ever done to assist modern society? The arab world gave us our number system lets not forget, and many practicing muslims are found in universities all over the world.
Point being, just because they’re not in the Middle East doesn’t mean they’re not muslim. Take a walk down to your nearest university and have a look at all the muslim students and lecturers there – chances are you won’t even recognise them. Now look at the statistics for violent muggings, home robberies, murder, rape, assault etc. for American cities. They’re not too inspiring.
I believe that its not in the human gene to be voilant
Well that’s a moot point. What you belive and what is actually true are not necissarily the same. What is fact however, is that the majority of human civilizations studied so far have in some form or another violence.
Agony said it well:
geeks compete who writes the best virus, nerds who solves an 5th degree equation first, jocks compete in sports and getting the hottest girlfriends. What do fundamentalists compete in? making those f***ing infidels see the light of $deity, often through violence if they feel that their religion is opressed (because they don’t know other ways).
Violence comes in many forms. You use the one which best suits you at the time.
From Agony and Skyclad:
I think this is incredibly important. Developing ways to express yourself is predicated on education, and education also tends to leads towards intercultural understanding. Education is also critical to developing wealth, and wealthy people dont like going to fight
wars. In short, education is key to solving the societal
schism
Don’t blame the uneducated when they fail to act like an educated person.
As the add on to above – we in the west usually receive free education. As a further add on, look at all the people who take that for granted.
Agnostic,
Thank you for what you said, I don’t know what’s your religion, but it really makes me happy to see that there is American has menatlity as yours, not like Mr.Dave who might be didn’t read one book nor watch any news other than Fox news.
The bad thing in what the pope said that he quote the empror and he didn’t quote what the other guy answered the empror.
The other issue Islam didn’t spread by viloence, for example Indonsia and Mylsia and countries in Africa, better example that Islam is the fastes spread in USA its self.
For who ever that the Muslims is unsecure, that’s not true, we beleive in god, so we have solid ground, we know if we suffered unjust in this life, we will relize the justice in the next life.
Thank god for our values and for our respect even for prophets like Jesus and Moses, we can’t say such thing about jesus or any other prophet, because we beleive in them.
I thank god every day for being Muslim, for what I know about Islam, and if Islam would encourage on vilonce, I wouldn’t be Muslim. I hope every one read about prophet Muhammed before he say ignorant things.
Thank you to who ever defend Islam and Muslims and for who that the don’t like Islam, I hope god forgive and guide you to the truth.
Let’s examine the reality (at least the way I see it):
Fact #1: Not all Muslims are terrorists.
Fact #2: 99.9% of the terrorist attacks on this planet are being made by Muslims.
Am I wrong?
> Fact #2: 99.9% of the terrorist attacks on this planet are being made by Muslims.
Am I wrong?
Yes, for pretty much any definition of the word terrorist you wish to apply.
Neuclar attack on Japan, I don’t think it’s terrorist attack, killing 200 thousands people of civilians wasn’t terrorist attack, putting african in slavery was so civilized, USA killing, raping and torturing Iraqi and secret prisons all over the world not terroirsm.
Please look at all these facts and then define the terroirsm.
> Please look at all these facts and then define the terroirsm.
Read a fantastic book by Phil Rees called “Dining with Terrorists”, and realise the use of the word “terrorism” is quite simply a propaganda tool.
Answer on #24.
That’s rather an insult ‘not reading a book’ or getting my info from fox news.(Not receivable in Berlin). I don’t know how old you are,Mohammed, but I’m pushing 60 and my view of the world is based on what I see, what I feel, what I’ve experienced, what I am allowed to say and reading the good books that I haven’t supposed to have read. Fact is, you are right, there are good muslims as much as there are good christians etc. but history has shown me, repeatedly, that
the bloodiest human carnage has its roots in some sort of faith. You cannot deny that. It’s strange that in those parts of the world where religion plays a minor role in everyday life e.g. Australia, Canada, Scandanavia everything appears to be, compared to the middle east, very quiet. Or have I missed something? Keep writing old son, it’s an interesting website.
All the occupition that happened in the 19th century and 20th century was from christian to Muslims, and what about the German them self, they were supporting Hetler, or did you forget that?, ever country and every religion has its upsets, the only thing that Islam was huge civilization, Islam didn’t blame people for what they doing, Islam freed people from slavery, you can read what was going on in Egypt before Islam, and what Islam did to free this people from the Roman empire, and Islam gave the Christian the freedom to stay in Egypt and be Christians, and you can apply that on all the nations on the ME. So please don’t be close minded and try to understand, that we have values and the west trying hard to change it, we can’t change some of our values, we have a lot of things are going on wrong in ME but we are trying to change and we will change, but nobody from outside will change us, we are not going to follow you non existence values( you might name it values).
The weird thing that the west think that they have values, which I don’t see it, when somebosy sleeps with women and he does what ever he wants, where are the values in that, when the woman walking naked in the beaches, where are the values in that, when men kissing and marrying another man, where the heck are the values, and you call it freedom. I don’t like this kind of freedom and I don’t want. I want the freedom of opinion, that’s the only thing I want to take from the west.
“The weird thing that the west think that they have values, which I don’t see it, when somebosy sleeps with women and he does what ever he wants, where are the values in that, when the woman walking naked in the beaches, where are the values in that, when men kissing and marrying another man, where the heck are the values, and you call it freedom. I don’t like this kind of freedom and I don’t want. I want the freedom of opinion, that’s the only thing I want to take from the west.”
Mohamed, you are taking aspects of 2 different cultures of the west. One, backwards religious culture who think they own everything and want to force their values on others, and the other who encourage freedom for everyoneand don’t claim to have superior values or morality and don’t force their beliefs on anyone.
None of those things you mentioned are universally accepted as being wrong. Only the religious psychos hate the freedom we have to do those things, and want to force their superstitions on everyone else.
In summation, those of us claiming to have “values” don’t do those things, and those of us that don’t buy into your outdated religious belief systems have the freedom to do them if we want. I’m not pointing any fingers at muslims specifically. I think christianity, judaism, and every other organized religion is just as oppressive, and wrong.
I’m not asking you to buy my ideas, just don’t talk about values and you have none, that tone that we hear on TV, Americans keep saying, they are attacking our values, what Muslims want just to leave them alnoe, and stop running behind the oil, we don’t want your values, keep it to your self, just leave us alone, get out of ME, stop killing Muslims, that’s all what we want, we never cared about what you name values.
We have the freedom to believe in what ever we want even if you think it’s outdated, like you say.
Stop dealing with double standered, and homosexuality is not accepted universly, we don’t accept it, and we will never accept it, and your vlaues is not acceptable, Islam is going to stay strong no matter what the west does, and we are going to keep our values.
“Stop dealing with double standered, and homosexuality is not accepted universly, we don’t accept it, and we will never accept it, and your vlaues is not acceptable, Islam is going to stay strong no matter what the west does, and we are going to keep our values.”
Im not talking double standards, I am an American who has no “values” and despises religion, and I said that homosexuality is not universally Hated, not accept, which is true. Not everyone in the world is a bigot.
“I’m not asking you to buy my ideas, just don’t talk about values and you have none, that tone that we hear on TV, Americans keep saying, they are attacking our values, what Muslims want just to leave them alnoe, and stop running behind the oil, we don’t want your values, keep it to your self, just leave us alone, get out of ME, stop killing Muslims, that’s all what we want, we never cared about what you name values.”
It’s people like me that protest the religious, muslim hating, american machine, because we have the freedom to do so. America will not always be in the hands of idiots like it is now. When the democrats win the next election, American oppression will start changing for the better.
…and for the last time, I’m not talking about the Middle East or Muslims, I’m talking about religious people of all faiths, EVERYWHERE. It’s all wrong.
@29 > I don’t like this kind of freedom and I don’t want.
You either have freedom to express yourself as you wish or you dont – there is no middle ground.
If women want the freedom to wear what they want, work where they want and live their lives as they want, so be it. Let god judge them if you think they are wrong.
If 2 men want to marry, so be it. I cant say I understand that decision, but it doesn’t affect me, so let god judge them.
If you want the freedom of opinion, then you have to respect other people’s right to the same. If their opinion is wrong you still have to let them have it – God will judge them.
> when somebody sleeps with women and he does what ever he wants, where are the values in that,
Without quoting religious concepts or mantra, can you tell me what exactly is wrong with sleeping with someone (outside of marriage, presuming that is what you meant)?
You destro the whole soceity by doing that, you get children out of this relationship, they have no rights, becaus they don’t who the father, and they are psyclogigly wreck, so you build a generation from weak people, you don’t gove the children the protection they need, and that’s the next generation that you need to be health soceity. I know some people will think that I’m crazy, but from what I see that America treat women like it has no values, it’s just created to be slept with, and I’m seeing every day, the value of the woman in USA is sub zero.
This is an interesting issue from a purely Christian theological point of view as well. I am not religious myself at all, and my own sympathies would lie with the idea that the reactions to the Pope’s obviously (intentionally?) misunderstood, rather abstract discussion are a really good test of whether the quotation is right. That is, by burning churches and killing nuns in response, the Muslims prove that indeed, they are violent.
Now, if I were the Pope, however, my own Christianity would be VERY cautious about making statements that I will know are inflammatory and will cause deaths and suffering in the hands of a bunch of violent idiots. This is because as a Christian, I would be very cautious about sinning through hubris… it would not be a sufficient excuse for me that “they are the ones who are being violent, so the guilt lies with them for not getting the point”. It will, nevertheless, cause evil in the world, and I would be put to better use through not seeking confrontation simply because of my righteousness. I should just let God deal with those who act against his will, and not act as the judge myself.
I’m sure many woman will find your argument about us treating woman like they were being “created to be slept with” offensive. Women are people just like men, no different. They have the freedom to become promiscuous just as men do, and they have the freedom to be prudes too. They can hold any position a man can hold, or be just as sleazy. Everything woman do in this country is their own choice. If they want to have a little fun in their youth, who am I to stop them? No one in America forces women to go around dressing sleezy and sleeping around… some do it of their own free will, and some don’t.
Also, I used to live with my homosexual mother and her partner, and I am not a psycological wreck. Parents sexuality does not determine how well adjusted children turn out… but the care and attention parents give their children does. If gay parents can do just as good a job as straight parents, why stop them?
I didn’t try to say offensive words about women, I tried to find a word without saying bad word, I don’t like to say bad words.
Furthermore, I know many people who grew up with gay parents, and wound up very successful, and I know many people who had straight parents who never divorced, who turned out to be big failures, crackheads, and white trash.
I’m sure you mean well, but you have to understand that in a society where woman are truly equal, they have the freedom to do as they please, and there will always be those who choose to be sex objects. Some men choose to live this way too.
All I can say, god create Adam and Eve, he didn’t create Adam1 ans Adam2. We cam from different culture, I know we are not going to agree on some issues.
haha, the standard red neck saying in America is “god created Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve” and in the part of America I come from, is usually looked down upon.
It’s funny, I live in USA, but I didn’t know such expression exists:).
> All I can say, god create Adam and Eve, he didn’t create Adam1 and Adam2.
And all I can say is we evolved through a process of natural selection. Do I deserve to go to hell?
I can’t judge, it’s not my job, it’s god’s job. I’m the same like you, I will be judged with my doing, so I can’t judge, and the different between some one like me and Usama Bin Laden, Bin Laden judged people even Muslims, if they are really Muslims or not.
I can’t take this responsiblity to judge somebody, I could be going to hell, it doesn’t matter if I’m Muslim or not, it’s all about my doings.
Woot!
So, quick recapitulation:
1 – Pope maybe meant well, maybe not, still blundered.
2 – People should have the freedom to do as they wish, but should respect that same freedom in others, thus limiting their own.
3 – Whatever you do, you are screwed. God will see to it.
4 – Almost every major (and minor) conflic resulting in multiple deaths are caused by religious ideology.
5 – Every god(s)-possesing religions say God will be the last, utmost and only judge of human souls, but they still insist on judging fidels, infidels, and everyone in sight.
6 – For some reason, even if atheism is the most sensible, most easily belivable and logical choice, it is still the most despised ‘way of thinking/living’ around the world…
(think we could get special tax exemption as a despised minority?)
Dear friends, brothers, sisters, neighbors, coworkers & Loves of my life,
I usually refrain from writing unsolicited editorials, but permit me just one this year which I think will be very obvious and terribly funny — if not so horribly evil.
You probably heard how the Pope quoted Emperor Manual II Paleologos of the Byzantine Empire:
“Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached.”
The response from the Muslim community [and I haven't heard any "good" Muslims say otherwise], was one of riots in retaliation, not to the Pope’s words, but from his quote of an Emperior. While the Pope gave the polite apology of “I am sorry that you are offended”.
He should have said, “Do not your riots prove my point?”
Eugene C. Smith
my prophet’s heart could not resist a response.
Eugene,
When American talks about freedom, they should talk about respecting people feeling, Muslims never said such things about Jesus nor Moses, we always respect prophets.
Let me tell you something else, if we Muslims in Egypt said such thing in Egypt about Jesus(which it will never happen), the Christian in Egypt will commit vilonece and I’m pretty sure of that, but for las time we will never do it, we beleive in Jesus as prophet.
The other thing, can the pope say that about Moses and about the Jews, just have the courage and tell, what would happen to the pope, he might end in the prison, because he is anti-sematic.
Please don’t stick the vilonce to Islam, if somebody commits violence, it’s just because they see how the pope try to blind people, and he is talking about prophet Mohamed. He will never be 1 of trillion of prophet Mohamed, and he dares to talk about him.
Could he talk about president Bush and his crimes in Iraq, or Israel in Lebanon, sure enough he can’t other wise he would be in one of this secret prisons for Bush.