It is time to add yet another chapter in the Muhammed caricature saga. Once again Danes lead the way as their People’s Party youth wing is caught ridin’ dirty. The People’s Party is the 3rd most popular in Denmark. You can read more about them here. The videos are available at the end of the article.
It started back in 2005 when Martin K, in association with Wooloo Productions and Defending Denmark, joined the youth faction of the Danish People’s Party. His job to was to study the party and gain a better understanding of their right wing associations. To do this, Martin attended various party meetings over the course of 18 months and videotaped what he could.
In September of 2006, Defending Denmark wanted to confront the Danish People’s Party with the information and video that Martin had acquired. Upon having their entry denied, Defending Denmark gave them one last chance at talks. When they refused, Defending Denmark posted some of the video footage for the entire world to see.
The videos depict what was essentially a cartoon contest among party members. They drew cartoons of a camel wearing the head of Muhammad and beer cans for humps. A second drawing placed a turbaned, bearded man next to a plus sign and a bomb, all equaling a mushroom cloud.
As expected these videos have been taken off most web sites including YouTube. Fortunately I have obtained all four videos. They will remain on this site as they are necessary to understand whatever fallout the Islamic community will unleash.
But more importantly, I want a discussion around this issue and not just a bashing of Denmark and Muslims. Should Muslims see these outlashes at Muhammed as a cry for discussions on Islam and integration and acceptance in Europe. Or should Muslims react the way they have in the past so it doesn’t happen again. Is there more to these cartoons than just the act of insulting a "prophet"?
Related posts:
- Muhammed Caricatures Spark Violence
- Police Foil ‘Religion Of Peace’ Plot To Erase Cartoonist
- Islam–Deaf, Dumb And Blind?
October 10th, 2006 at 2:41 am
“Or should Muslims react the way they have in the past”
I have a sneaky feeling that will be the case.
October 10th, 2006 at 3:45 am
Those silly videos were on every danish news-station all the time for the week (last week) this “scandal” was hot news.
There hasn’t been much uproar over it, the biggest thing i saw on the news was some random guy from a largely muslim country saying they will start a total boycut of danish goods… again.
But last time it took several monhts between the news hit danish media, and the wacky rioting started.
note: that youth party thing doesn’t have any direct connection to the main goverment party, besides sharing the same ideas about politics and sometimes getting a visit from someone at the main goverment party for some random event.
October 10th, 2006 at 6:53 am
During the last uproar about danish cartoons, many protesters were warmed to the cause by cartoons that weren’t even in the original Danish newspaper. They were made up by Islamists seeking to fuel the fire. I daresay that if the islamic world needs a reason to wage protest or holy war at someone, an actual cause isn’t a necessity. They can make one up any time.
Re those Danish party youths engaging in a cartoon contest: They are nothing short of abysmally stupid, of course. But have you seen cartoons from the islami world that have the western world, or particularly Jews, as their subject? Have you seen how especially the latter are being portrayed in Arabic children’s shows beamed all over the Near East and Europe as well? Not to mention the programme for the grown ups.
October 10th, 2006 at 8:33 am
I don’t like religious intolerance of ANY flavor, whether directed at Muslims, Christians, Atheists or Pastafarians. I may think the belief in an invisible cloud being is silly and counterproductive to humanity, but it’s not my place to be intolerant of them.
October 10th, 2006 at 9:12 am
just saw the news.
There appears to be some activity:
some indonesian muslim counsil is outraged and wants to put denmark to some international court or something, didn’t quite understand what they meant (the danish journalist talking danish). A fun quote from the head of thost indonesian muslim counsil: he says this videos says that some people in the west aren’t ready to live peacefully side by side with others.
Also, a series of danish websites have been hacked to display generic muslim slogans.
Also, when they showed the video they had blurred out the offensive parts, which was just about all of it, meaning they showed a 5sec video where the only thing you could make out was some grass at the bottom.
This was about 10 secs of a 15min newsreport.
October 10th, 2006 at 9:52 am
It boggles the mind that humans haven’t rendered themselves extinct over people willing to got to war over a cartoon. What next?
October 10th, 2006 at 11:01 am
wow….danish youth=new nazis? or danish youth= bored kids with pot?
October 10th, 2006 at 11:12 am
@staplesmcjesus
there is no doubt that there are radical right movements in europe that are becoming increasingly strong. but, do consider the european problem. most european countries have rapidly growing muslim minorities (once again they either need to start watching more tv or start using condoms). look at what the muslims are doing in france. that is on the extreme end of the problem, but its an indicator of whats going to happen all over europe. there is bound to be a backlash against muslims. the truth is, we don’t want them in europe, period. europeans fought many years ago to keep the turks out of europe, and now they are invading all over again with slightly different methods.
October 10th, 2006 at 11:17 am
the truth is, we don’t want them in europe, period, thats a little harsh isnt it? some people yes are bad but not all, and like you said radical rights movements are becoming stronger because maybe they need better rights?
October 10th, 2006 at 11:17 am
and my post before the last one was a joke,
October 10th, 2006 at 12:43 pm
What it boils down to is this. Those people were just expressing their opinion, and from what I gather it was a private thing right? The guy that filmed it INFILTRATED the event right? If so, HE was the wrong one. Those people were just privately expressing an opinion. You may not like it, but they hurt no one. As long as they continue to hurt no one (and I mean other than some slobs feelings) then where is the problem?
As far as muslims rioting over it? There isn’t a lot you can do to prevent it. The ones that want to riot will find some reason to, and they are just plain violent animals. Keep in mind I am referring to the rioting ones only. They should have their asses kicked in and thrown in jail where all violent for no good reason belong. And yes, someone insulting your ridiculous little religion is not a good reason to riot.
Have I offended enough people yet? If not, I can try again. None of this was said with the express intention of offending anyone, it is my true opinion. If that offends you, then go stick your head in the sand until you asphyxiate. There, did that do it?
October 10th, 2006 at 12:55 pm
By the way, you may notice a faint undercurrent of anger in my previous post. Ok, quite a bit more than faint.
People often ask me why I am so angry at christianity. The answer is I am not anger at christianity. I am angry at all religion. When you have a belief that allows you to justify rioting and destroying innocent peoples property and even killing people that haven’t done a damn thing to you all because some person made an insulting cartoon about your god, or your prophet, or whatever, there is a MAJOR problem.
That stupid republican chick said that homosexual marriange was the most important issue facing us today. That the future is grim if we dont do something about it. The sheer stupidity of that remark by itself astounds. Especially when we have something like THIS going on. Frankly, I see religion that just cant seem to keep to it’s damn self as the biggest issue we have facing us today. And her religion is as big a problem as islam.
So yes, I am angry at religion.
October 10th, 2006 at 1:00 pm
To staplesmcjesus:
“wow….danish youth=new nazis? or danish youth= bored kids with pot?”
…Try “bored and indifferent kids with lots of beer”.
October 10th, 2006 at 1:37 pm
the reason some people are offended is that every news station showed the videos over and over.
And the part of those youths being nazies: the danish people’s party main policies are about restricting people immigrating into denmark, and since most immigrants are from largely muslim contries, they have gathered more support by supporting laws that oppress muslims, like the 24-year law.
So a youth orginazation that supports that particular party is probably the closest you get to nazies short of people who actually admit they are.
October 10th, 2006 at 1:48 pm
Micheal: I would have to agree. Religious based intolerance is the root of most of the war we have on earth right now. So much blood spilled over a “My God is better than your God” game. If religions just kept their teachings to things like love God and help your fellow man that would be great. Instead it is love your God and hate anyone who doesn’t believe in the same God. And of course hate gays, regulate sex, and pretend you are actually holy.
October 12th, 2006 at 3:42 pm
On the one hand i feel like drawing some more cartoons just to drive the point home that we WILL not have our right to make fun of anything be taken from us!
On the other hand i think we should give those stupid moslems a break before they start believing that they should burn their TVs and Radios, not buy a newspaper EVER (let alone a computer or internet connection) and end up countries worse than the 3ed worled!
October 19th, 2006 at 6:07 am
Religious tolerance is a thing of the past, it seems. I’m all for multi-culturalism, but as a way of bringing people together - in the UK at the moment, people seem to be creating their own ghettoes and fighting integration. I’m offended when traditional British customs are toned down or curtailed in case of offending the Muslim community. If I was in Saudi Arabia, I would accept that I can’t have a beer, respect the culture and laws of the country I’m in. I would ask for the same courtesy in my own country. Don’t join in if you feel uncomfortable, but let me have a beer and send a Christmas card in peace.
April 1st, 2007 at 12:21 pm
what they are doing is out of pure ignorance, they are very disrespectful towards muslims, i would hate for any one to make fun of christianity.
April 1st, 2007 at 2:51 pm
Exactly what are they ignorant about?
A drawing contest is what you get when people say “you can’t draw my God and if you do we will get you”. Quite a healthy reaction really.
I myself have drawn Mohammed plenty of times since the cartoon crisis. It may be that today nobody dares draw a dead prophet again in Denmark but not in my home.
April 1st, 2007 at 4:38 pm
gasmonso,
You seem to be such a stalwart supporter of freedom of speech, why don’t hold a “Old Testement and Talmud” cartoon contest? Let’s see what kind of reation you would get.
The cartoon controversy got a lot of media attention, but the trials of men trying to reveal the truth in Denmark is not being discussed as much. I know there are some who will make exuses for the Danish government and claim they were leaking confidential documents, but if the government is making false public statements that will lead to the destruction of another country, then these men had a right to reveal this information. These men are being put on trial for embarrassing the Danish Prime Minister. Will Prime Minister Anders Fogh Rasmussen be put on trial for his lies?
from http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6143794.stm
July 18th, 2007 at 12:32 pm
whatever the hell it is it doesnt not mean that ANYONE should make fun of anothers religon. the ISLAM religon is a peaceful one and you know what whoever is wrong will get his payback from ALLAH as what happened to the Mohamed cartoonists. he was driving his car and the highway fell and he was the only one who died. what does that mean to you.
“what they are doing is out of pure ignorance, they are very disrespectful towards muslims, i would hate for any one to make fun of christianity.”- justin
we would NEVER think about making fun of christianity because we believe in jesus too. and if anyone does make fun of ANY religon they are the ones with no religon because they have NO respect towards anyone and themselves
July 18th, 2007 at 12:33 pm
oh and SO WHAT if the muslims do what they have done in the past
July 18th, 2007 at 1:15 pm
So, PROUDMUSLIM, you would make fun of other religions which do not have Jesus? That wouldn’t be very respectful, would it?
July 18th, 2007 at 2:29 pm
“the ISLAM religon is a peaceful one and you know what whoever is wrong will get his payback from ALLAH”
that made me laugh out loud. its amazing that you can contradict yourself in the same sentence.
July 18th, 2007 at 6:32 pm
Yeah, I lolled to.
to adress on very old quote, that says it way better then the new ones who mean the exact same thing
This makes me sad, It really does.
it IS your place to be intollerant of anything bad for society. People can do to themselves whatever they want. You want to smoke pot, do heroine, have sex with someone of the same sex, worship Allah, Shiva Jahweh, drink a liter of rum every morning or bash brick walls with your forehead? GO AHEAD, as long you do NOT harm other people with it.
Religion, misguided as it may be, is fine by me, but keep it in your bedroom. As soon as you start teaching other people, or children, that they shouldn’t be inquisitive, that they shouldn’t doubt what is being told to them, the intire human race suffers from it.
Organised religion is the worst thing that has ever happened to humanity. It killed more people then the Plague for crying out loud.
Someone draws a cartoon to ridicule archaic beliefd, bad for society, without ever insulting anyone personally, and people start rioting in the streets. What else can do that but religion?
In another light.
Why do we frown on, and even persecute people, for believes white males are superior to all others? Why do we shun people who say jews are to blame for all evil in the world? The list can continue, but you get the idea.
If we have an idea about those lifestyles, why should religion be exempt from the same scrutiny?
August 15th, 2007 at 2:57 pm
@irishthunder
[
24
irishthunder Says:
July 18th, 2007 at 2:29 pm
“the ISLAM religon is a peaceful one and you know what whoever is wrong will get his payback from ALLAH”
that made me laugh out loud. its amazing that you can contradict yourself in the same sentence.
]
whats so amazing?… PROUDMUSLIM didnt contradict his prev statement.
all he was sayin was that whoever does evil will be paid back. every religion teaches that… so again whats so amazing?
August 15th, 2007 at 3:02 pm
@ I Are
[
I Are Says:
July 18th, 2007 at 1:15 pm
So, PROUDMUSLIM, you would make fun of other religions which do not have Jesus? That wouldn’t be very respectful, would it?
]
PROUDMUSLIM mentioned in his last sentence tht anybody who’d insult ANY religion is one who doesnot respect anyone(and thus does not deserved to be respected). That means hes not one to insult ANY religion regardless of whether they have anything commmon in their believes or not.
August 15th, 2007 at 6:36 pm
Well… Forgive me for cherry picking. But you guys doing it too, cherry picking, why can’t I?
September 20th, 2007 at 12:27 am
i think what’s so amazing is all them “freedom fighters” who kill innocent people and hide behind islam. what Proudmuslim says is true. islam is a peaceful religion, as are all religions.
now what i would like to see is muslims express more religious/social tolerance that they demand from everyone else. maybe it’s on a person to person basis, but what i get from them is “if you don’t believe in islam you go to hell”
September 20th, 2007 at 12:31 am
oh and @ proudmuslim
i’ll have to say though, muslims are by far the bitchiest group of people on the face of the earth.
October 28th, 2007 at 10:23 pm
Its not religion that caused the problems in the first place, its human nature. don’t you get real angry with someone just keeps contradicting you and doesn’t take your advice? If you don’t then you’re a saint.
Think about it this way. Judaism has very little terrorists/extremists and is very old. it’s in old age.
Christianity has a bit more extremists than Judaism, but not enough to seriously endanger a group. its in middle age.
And Islam, has not a lot, but a lot more than Judaism, and its about 400-500 years younger than Christianity, so basically its a teenager.
How do teenagers feel sometimes?
1. Frustration that people don’t think like you.
2. A feeling that making other people think like you will make everything easier.
3. Feel like the world is coming down on you
4. lashing out at any insult no matter how minor.
Think about it . Eventually there will be less extremists and hopefully less religious tensions.
October 29th, 2007 at 10:26 am
Aura, your one of the few people (along with me and most readers of this site) that notices the timeline these religions don’t share. Given time im sure islamic extremism will die down, but if many of us already see the faults of this religion, why allow the hatred and slaughter to continue? Lets not forget that you never know when a new cult will jump up to take the islamic extremists place, god help us if the mormons or scientologists ever became powerful.
January 10th, 2008 at 3:19 pm
so yomomma, if you think muslims are the bitchiest group
then i think you r a 2faced bitch i’ve ever known before
January 10th, 2008 at 3:26 pm
by the way aura the religion islam was there waay before
judaisum and christianity so get your facts right.
u might wanna do your research right before you reply
again. have’nt u heard the quote “think before u speak”
January 10th, 2008 at 3:31 pm
so ulrik why do u like drawing muhammed
January 10th, 2008 at 4:16 pm
bubbles, Muhammad was born in the late 500’s AD. Seriously, you could have googled that in all of 5 seconds.
February 1st, 2008 at 8:53 pm
This is an interesting topic, and at least for the most part people are speaking respectfully here.
Bubble, you really do have to get you’re facts straight. Islam came much after Judaism and Christainity.
February 1st, 2008 at 8:55 pm
alcari, I think it is insulting people personally because they worship the Prophet.
I mean, if that religion is part of the person, isn’t it insulting them personally then?
February 3rd, 2008 at 10:17 am
Hello Riz,
Not at all. Just as a political cartoon that lampoons a particular political party is not insulting any members of that party. Same goes for one’s favorite sport’s team, one’s economic philosophy, or any other realm of human thought. There is no reason religion should enjoy some special privilege that insulates it from criticism.
February 3rd, 2008 at 10:24 am
“so ulrik why do u like drawing muhammed”
It’s a way of saying that I don’t like men who rape, kill and enslave other people and at the same time claim to be prophets and that everybody must obey them or they will burn in hell.
Making cartoons is really not a big deal - Muhammed should have been tried and put in prison for crimes against humanity.
February 3rd, 2008 at 12:02 pm
sidfaiwu, I see what you’re saying. But I mean, you could say the same thing about race then, and that would be classified as racism don’t you think?
February 3rd, 2008 at 3:21 pm
Riz, you can support a team and change the team you support, you can change your religion, philosophy and other things, but can you change your race?
There in lies the difference.
February 3rd, 2008 at 8:11 pm
Well, that was pretty much my point as well, thanks guys.
Also, being white/black/yellow/brown/whatever doesn’t harm society in any way, while practicing religion, and converting/inducting children definatly does harm humanity as a whole.
February 4th, 2008 at 3:13 pm
jagannath, that’s a well said point, and I can agree with that.
Alcari, I think in many ways religion does harm society as a whole especially since certain countries have extremely strict laws (some of which are only bias interpretations from holy texts), however I think it is possible to practice you’re own religion without harming anyone.
February 4th, 2008 at 4:33 pm
“Alcari, I think in many ways religion does harm society as a whole especially since certain countries have extremely strict laws (some of which are only bias interpretations from holy texts), however I think it is possible to practice you’re own religion without harming anyone.”
Since you acknowledge the negative effects of religion(I’m pretty impressed)let me throw this hypothetical to you. Would the world than be better off with less or no religion?
February 4th, 2008 at 10:08 pm
To make a slightly exaggerated comparison, I also think it’s perfectly possible to be a skinhead nazi without hurting anyone, but of them don’t manage.
but it’s not just about the laws, it’s about the whole mindset. Religion actively discourages individual thought, counters scientific advance and represses inquisitiveness.
February 5th, 2008 at 1:16 pm
hmmmmm.
Islamic religion IS violent and intolerent, if you read the koran. A few quotes:
IX. 5-6: Kill those who join other gods with God wherever you may find them.
IV.76: Those who believe fight in the cause of God.
XVI.8: We have made hell a prison for the unbelievers.
Also, objectivly, islamic is the biggest source of problems in the world (especially europe). It’s not what i think, the facts prove it!
Look at the news, hundreds of people die every day following islamic suicide bombers.
They come to European countries, then act all bitchy and create chaos.
I have nothing against the religion, i just want extremists to grow up.
February 5th, 2008 at 3:37 pm
“Also, objectivly, islamic is the biggest source of problems in the world (especially europe). It’s not what i think”
Thats not really “objectiv”, islam is just at a different point in it’s life-span. Christianity has taken its fair share of lives(spanish inquisition?). No need to worry, just like the religions of ancient Greece and Egypt, eventually people will realize it’s all a fairy tale.
February 5th, 2008 at 4:41 pm
I don’t understand why you specifically highlight Islam as a violent religion, when there are equally many examples from real life and scriptures that point out Christianity as a violent religion as well. For example, in Deuteronomy:
And when the LORD thy God hath delivered it into thine hands, thou shalt smite every male thereof with the edge of the sword
Psalms 137:9
Blessed is the one who grabs your little children and smashes them against a rock.
There are more, but I think you get the idea.
February 5th, 2008 at 6:01 pm
Adam:
“I don’t understand why you specifically highlight Islam as a violent religion, when there are equally many examples from real life and scriptures that point out Christianity as a violent religion as well.”
The NT only has one violent phrase:
“I come not to bring peace, but to bring a sword”
In comparison the Quran has 164 calls for holy war and violence.
By the way where on earth do you see “equally many examples” of christian violence?
February 6th, 2008 at 10:31 am
February 6th, 2008 at 10:31 am
must remember to use the preview button next time…
The first two lines are the quote, the rest is my own.
February 6th, 2008 at 3:24 pm
Are you sure these are examples of religious motivated violence committed by christians?
February 7th, 2008 at 10:05 am
Oh quite sure. Asuming you haven’t been following the general new for the past few years:
Ireland:
http://atheism.about.com/library/FAQs/christian/blfaq_viol_northernireland.htm
Iraq:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_war_in_Iraq
Indonesia:
http://www.contenderministries.org/articles/indonesia.php
And i’m quite sure you can find the rest yourself using google “[Country] Christian violence”
Of course, that is after we ignore the worldwide bombing of abortion clinics, the abuse of homosexuals and all the things priests do with little boys.
February 7th, 2008 at 4:16 pm
To be honest I really dont have the energy. I follow the news and don’t hear a lot about christians doing christs work with violence. The “bombing of abortion clinics” is getting REALLY old.
I’ll give you the conflict in Ireland and the random attacks on homosexuals.
The indonesian link tell of a muslim attack by the way. We all know that happens.
February 27th, 2008 at 2:43 pm
”…I follow the news and don’t hear a lot about christians doing Christ’s work with violence…” -Corso
Hi Corso,
Maybe it’s high time you asked yourself who call the shots in global media circles. They either downplay or completely ignore the news if it’s too damning to Christianity. But one thing we can’t run away from is the grim fact that the problem of religious intolerance will consume us all if we don’t contain it. It’s as big and as old as history. It doesn’t matter if you believe in one, many or no God at all. It affects humanity as a whole just like global warming or the prospect of nuclear war.
Your role is not to fan the ambers of hate by deliberate provocation, but to objectively understand what makes who tick. Or just be a dispassionate observer.
Don’t you think humans will always find ways to wage war on and persecute one another even if there were no such thing as religion?
February 27th, 2008 at 3:05 pm
Observer:
“Maybe it’s high time you asked yourself who call the shots in global media circles. They either downplay or completely ignore the news if it’s too damning to Christianity.”
If the global news doesn’t report christian violence, how do you know it happens and that the press is keeping it secret?
“Your role is not to fan the ambers of hate by deliberate provocation, but to objectively understand what makes who tick. Or just be a dispassionate observer.”
Maybe its high time you stop telling me what my role is.
I for one will not stop stating my honest opinion no matter how much that “tick” anybody. that does not mean I don’t understand what makes them tick - it’s just not that important.
Where do you think your precious world would be today if anyone can stop critisizm by simply being offended?
“Don’t you think humans will always find ways to wage war on and persecute one another even if there were no such thing as religion?”
Of course - and we would also find ways to wage war if there were no such thing as disputes over borders - so why try to avoid them?
February 28th, 2008 at 3:03 pm
Corso: ”If the global news doesn’t report christian violence, how do you know it happens and that the press is keeping it secret?”
Look harder at my earlier comment. I say ”they either DOWNPLAY or COMPLETELY IGNORE the news…” And I should add that objective reporting now depends who or what is making the headlines.
”Maybe its high time you stop telling me what my role is”
Don’t underestimate what positive ROLE you can play to make the world a better place.
”’What makes them tick…it’s just not that important”
If it’s not that important, why so much frenzy the world over? Why do you ‘waste’ your time commenting on the issue? Come on! You can do better than that!
”Where do you think your precious world would be today if anyone can stop critisizm by simply being offended?”
Our precious world would have remained in the Stone Age without OBJECTIVE, IMPERSONAL, CONSTRUCTIVE criticism. On the other hand, targeting a people based on color, creed, ideology, belief or partisanship can only heighten tension, increase insecurity, mistrust and the desire to undo one another.
”Of course - and we would also find ways to wage war if there were no such thing as disputes over borders - so why try to avoid them?”
One cannot completely avoid conflict, however one tries. As long as people live together, there’s bound to be conflict. But its management and resolution should be our occupation, not its escalation.
February 28th, 2008 at 4:16 pm
You say there are people in the media circles that call the shots. As I understand english this means jounalists deciding what comes out and what is not. I asked you how you knew this and you said I should look more closely to what you wrote. Perhaps I am stupid but I give up.
“Don’t underestimate what positive ROLE you can play to make the world a better place.”
Ok. Good thing I am playing a positive role then.
“If it’s not that important, why so much frenzy the world over? Why do you ‘waste’ your time commenting on the issue? Come on! You can do better than that!”
Probably. What I meant was that freedom of speech is more important than what makes people tick. I am not wasting my time but supporting free speech because of the frenzy in the world. Hope you understand now.
“Our precious world would have remained in the Stone Age without OBJECTIVE, IMPERSONAL, CONSTRUCTIVE criticism.”
Yes.
“On the other hand, targeting a people based on color, creed, ideology, belief or partisanship can only heighten tension”
Two things.
1) The cartoons were brought because of religious intimidation. A widespread fear among artists to draw Muhammed made a newspaper print them. That is not targeting, that is defending. The fact that about 200 people has lost their lifes so far because of those drawings makes a strong argument for that point of view.
2) Yes you make the world more insecure if you do such things like standing up against pressure instead of simply accepting the sharia law which prohibit portraits of a certain historical person on danish ground.
In the long run security will come with a price which I am not willing to pay.
“As long as people live together, there’s bound to be conflict. But its management and resolution should be our occupation, not its escalation.”
Lets take a look at history. In the 1930´s there were to kind of views on Hitler and Germany.
1) Hitler is building up his army even though Germany are bound by treaty not to. We must stand up to this and stop him.
2) Hitler is building up his army, but for the sake of world peace we should look the other way this time and avoid escalation and conflict.
Which one of these do you have?
By the way and just to save time for both of us. I am not saying the muslims are going to invade Poland. It´s simply an example from history.
March 20th, 2008 at 5:59 pm
I’m not into comparing religions or their people, but, i believe there are some kind of general rules, to live peacefully in a multi-race, multi-religion, multi-opinion, multi-everything world. This rules, while not clearly written like in the movie “I, Robot” (the three rules), are considered, or assumed, learned thru time and trials and errors, until at some point, we people achieved “balanced” state.
This “rules” is my opinion only. Please forgive me if they’re not complete. They’re only “general” rules, examples.
1. The Bible, The Qur’an, or whatever religion books out there, was simply written by their own prophets to be a guidance FOR-THE-FOLLOWER. (or the believer) (or the participants). If you’re not a believer of the bible, then the blessing and the curses of the bible don’t apply to you. Much like the bible don’t apply to the atheist. Much like the bible don’t apply to the moslems. Much like the qur’an don’t apply to the christians.
2. Therefore, people SHOULD NOT enforce their religion-based rewards and punishments, to NON BELIEVER.
3. However, people should learn that they’re not alone in this world, their religion is not alone in this multi-everything world. To live peacefully, people should be respecting each other, including, but not limited to, respecting other religion. (or other culture).
4. However, if any disgrace or disrespectful things happen, or whatever sounds bad happens, please go back to rule 2. Do not punish other people, especially from other religion, for your holly book only apply to you and fellow believer only.
5. These rules stand as a guidance for THE PRACTICE OF MULTI-RELIGIONS peacefully. Violation of any of these rules will not only destroy the “peacefull” part, but also destroy the “practicing religion” part.
Let’s count out (ignore) the killing culture (which is actually allowed in the qur’an) (which, although questionable to be humane, but as a cultre is to be respected by other religion, following rule 3, as long as the killing only affects fellow moslem, following rule 2).
When a non-moslem draws the picture of Muhammad in a sinister way, it is violating rule 3. But, when a moslem tries to kill the artist (the qur’an way of punishing, as confirmed by islamic leaders by their “sentence to death” punishment statement, even by giving rewards like in India), it is violating rule 2.
In the end, in my humble opinion, both parties are required to grow up, to learn from this clash.
Non-moslems, please respect their culture, do not draw Muhammad again. Why don’t we write/draw/joke about ourself. You know what, if i say something bad about myself, people laugh with me. But if i say something bad about others, in the end people with laugh at me. So make joke about ourself, not others.
On the other side, moslems, please grow up. Can’t you take jokes? Ok it’s irritating, but we all know that Jesus is being blasphemed all around the modern world and those real christians were only smiling wisely, knowing that it’s not their job to punish them or taking any action (legal or not) against them. It’s their job to love-them-anyway. Knowing that if GOD is so real for them, GOD will do the judgement at the right time, not them. You can learn to be better and wiser than these christians, can’t you?
I’m sorry this reply turns out to be so long.
Peace.
March 20th, 2008 at 9:36 pm
InAPerfectWorld — I have a question for you. You said “To live peacefully, people should be respecting each other, including, but not limited to, respecting other religion. (or other culture).” Okay, I can see where you’re coming from there (I think, unless I am totally off my rocker here), but I have a question that involves extremes (a habit of mine; I like to test propositions by taking them to their extremes and seeing where they break): Suppose there were a culture — and there are plenty in history to choose from — that had as a cultural imperative the destruction of other cultures and/or religions. Now, of course, those of another culture would have to defend themselves against these monsters in human disguise . . . but would you maintain that the defenders must respect the agressors?
As far as your post being long, you should see some of the others . . . ummmm, including some of mine, I’m afraid ().
April 21st, 2008 at 8:01 pm
I have been taught never to make fun of any religion taught to respect all religions . and what i have been taught is right but i wouldnt like it if someone got up and made fun of my religion when i respect theirs whaat right does he / she have to make fun of mine People should have an open mind not just think of a story from one angle but think it from all angles / why cant you people understand and not offend other who have not harmed you ? the people who have harmed are not muslims they are outcasts using islams name to frame islam
April 22nd, 2008 at 6:07 am
I’ve been taught to respect, but not whatever retarded, archaic belief they hold. I’ve been taught to critically examine everything, and not take things for granted, such as religious people do.
I do not see why I should respect anyone’s beliefs, as long as they are completely unfounded and have no bearing on reality.
Organised Religion especially, deserves no respect, as it has brought humanity nothing but trouble and has hindered our development as species. If you want me to respect your beliefs, show me a reason why I should.
I’m getting mighty tired of the whole religion-taboo. Lets throw the beliefs on the table, pick them apart and discuss them, lets get rid of this rediculous taboo that states we can’t be critical of religion.
July 8th, 2008 at 1:09 am
Please visit the channels investigateislam and muhammadtubecom in Youtube. Really cool