Now here’s a story that scares the bejesus out of me and hopefully you. This roots of this story date back to June 2003 when a top-level meeting between Bush and the Palestinians took place. Nabil Shaath, who was the Palestinian foreign minister at the time, recalls this:
President Bush said to all of us: ‘I’m driven with a mission from God.
Shaath continues by recalling the following words as spoken by President Bush:
God would tell me, ‘George, go and fight those terrorists in Afghanistan.’ And I did, and then God would tell me, ‘George, go and end the tyranny in Iraq …’ And I did. And now, again, I feel God’s words coming to me, ‘Go get the Palestinians their state and get the Israelis their security, and get peace in the Middle East.’ And by God I’m gonna do it.
The Whitehouse denied the reports as absurd, but Shaath remains firm that Bush did indeed speak them. Furthermore, Shaath said he was actually encouraged by President Bush’s comments. You can read more of what was spoken at the meeting here.
Fast forward to October 2006 and once again God is commanding the direction of the United States. However this time he’s not speaking to President Bush, but Defense Secretary Rumsfeld. Marine General Peter Pace, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, said the following with respects to Rumsfeld:
He leads in a way that the good Lord tells him is best for our country.
This appears to be a frightening trend that I find absolutely shocking. We have the most powerful people in the world claiming that their actions are guided by God. Think about that for a minute. Many people in the world, including Muslims, criticize Islamic extremists for justifying their actions as those of God. Yet, here we have the US elite using God as justification for invading Iraq and Afghanistan.
While most sane people in the world saw 911 as reason to invade Afghanistan to ouster the Taliban, many remain utterly confused as to why the US invaded Iraq. After all, Iraq had no ties to Al-Qaeda, nor any weapons of mass destruction. In addition, by invading Iraq, the US has upset the natural balance of power in the Middle East affording Iran an opportunity to become the sole power, and a nuclear one at that. Now add to the mix a civil war and countless civilian casualties and we have a real mess.
Is this what God wanted?
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now, on one hand i have no doubt that bush would say something like that. on the other hand, i wouldn’t trust the palestinian guy whatsoever .
more likely then not, when bush says things like these its rhetoric, fabricated statements meant to create an image that bush (and many others like him) want to foster.
“talking to god” is codeword for psychosis. i know that some religious people who frequent this site will disagree, but we have made sufficient strides in neurology and psychology that we can recognize that. medication people. only thing that might help you.
What always amazes me is the thin line people tread between religious experiences and insanity. What separates someone having a schizophrenic-like hallucination where God talks to them from a “bona-fide” religious experience? How do you confirm beyond doubt that it is a divine message and not someone making it up or under the influence of something mind-altering?
On a related topic which causes me great concern over this issue, witchdoctors, shamen and pagan priests used to use various hallucinogens in rituals to “open a channel” between themselves and their god(s). Ergotism is similarly likely to be implicated in the witch hunts of the dark ages. We know now that both of these “religious experiences” were probably nothing but drug-induced hallucinations. Many religious ecstacies also have the hallmarks of psychotic episodes.
So, where do we draw the line? Is it really just people wanting to believe something so bad which can make them blind to the obvious and stifle their curiosity?
Personally, I believe that some people, even non-religious, use the God ordering them around to do things as they know the god is not going to come and say “Naughty, naughty boy!”
If they are doing gods work, they do nothing wrong and if the task fails it is gods will or a test. It is easy to explain away why you could not do what god wanted. “God works in mysterious ways”-clause seems the most common one.
I mean, is there any better reason for a religious person to break all the basic tenets of their own religion than gods order?
Because God works in mysterious ways?
Wow! I’m getting the hang of this! That was easy, now I see why people just can’t be bothered with science, there’s so much work involved and people needed. It’s far easier to fall back on That explaination!
/sarcasm
I’m feeling particularly spiteful towards organised religion today, pay no heed deists…
heh, i’m not quick to jump at a psychosis if someone has a religious experience. to be frank i’m not an athiest for a reason.
course having a religious experience is not quite proof.
the sad fact is a lot of people like the fact that bush is a “good christian.” I doubt an many openly atheist people will be elected to any important position in the near future. Hell, if bush said he didnt believe in god hed probably be impeached.
I know Cheney is a powerful guy, but Bush shouldn’t call him God.
I know Cheney is a powerful guy, but Bush shouldn’t call him God.
QFT. This reminds me of one of Bush’s recent episodes of letting people ask him questions directly. In the middle of the usual pandering and softballing, someone asked him if he really believed in the rapture, and that these wars in the middle east were part of what is needed to prepare the world for the second coming and the end of the world, Bush just stared for a second, as if his mind suddenly cracked in the need to maintain his stranglehold on the fundamentalist christian base and his need to still appear somewhat not like a sectarian tyrant. Its really easy to be a Christian when its just forgiveness and the 10 commandments, but it starts to lose the ease of opperation when you have to start believing in the end of the world and literal genesis interpretation.
@Matt: “I doubt many openly atheist people will be elected to any important position in the near future.”
No shit. A recent study at the University of Minnesota found atheists to be the least trusted group in America, mistrusted by the general public more than Muslims and homosexuals.
Hello Agnöstic,
“I’m feeling particularly spiteful towards organized religion today, pay no heed deists…”
Deists? Organized? In the same sentence?!? …Hahahahaha!
Don’t worry about offending me by feeling spitefull towards organized religion. I often feel the same way. Even though, as a Deist, I believe a God exists (I’m starting to dislike the baggage that comes along with that term), I don’t believes that God has intervened in the universe since its creation. The idea that God speaks directly to people is just as absurd to me as it is to you.
so if there is a god…
AND. he does talk to bush…
and BUSH does everything is told…..
gods retarted?
fixed my name my bad T_T
Since there’s no proof of this beyond the account of the people there, I wonder how true it is. It would be useful to know how he said it better, to know if it was just rhetoric or if Bush is indeed the American President version of Jesus (in his warped view).
I haven’t heard this in any major publications, which is worrisome. The public at large should probably hear about this, at least so they know who we are talking about. God isn’t exactly accountable in a governmental system that recognizes no God, and our dear leader should probably be made aware of that. But then again, given the influence of fundamentalists in America these days, who knows what would happen…
Nevermind about hearing it in “major publications”. I did a google search and it’s in BBC and the Washington Post. It’s out there, at least.
Devon,
I think you got it right, may be it was cheney, I think Cheney is a god for Bush and may be father and mother, and baby sitter.
The sad part that some people beleives it, and god will show for rich spoiled kid like Bush.
There could be a very simple explanation for this.
He’s trying to appeal to the religous freaks in this country. I’m willing to go out on a limb here and propose that he had other reasons/incentives for invading Afghanistan and Iraq.
Hmmm… Money, oil, ‘wag the dog’, a good excuse to get people to look the other way…
Am I hitting it, David?
As a Canuck, I can firmly state that your government scares the hell out of me. Those that don’t directly believe that the world will end in the next 100 years, negating the need to protect the environment (for example) are under control of those that do.
For the people, by the people only works when the people (a) are fucking headcases, and (b) keep their shit in their own back yard. Nuclear fallout will certainly land on my ass when n. korea lobs off at you guys…
Sorry, that should read “(a) are _not_ fucking headcases”.
That’ll learn me for skipping work to type comments!
You can rest at ease Mr. Canuck, I honestly have no concern that even a psycho like Mr. Ill is stupid enough to try to nuke us. “Turrists”, however, since they have no border to worry about do concern me a little. I could see it with them. The people in North Korea that actually do the button pushing know that launching a missile at us is not just suicide but suicide for a huge number of their citizens. What person would do that? No one even remotely sane. So don’t worry your little head. It isn’t going to happen.
*wow, and I always thought that Bush was smart.*
PLEASE NOTE MY SARCASM PEOPLE
Anyway, while I do believe in God, I do not believe that He is talking through George Bush. Nor that George has ever decided to do something based on his religious beliefs. He bases them on what people tell him he should do and what his crazy brain cooks up. I don’t know, I don’t actually live at the white house, but that’s what I think.
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