The life is full of destinies… we just have to find the right one - roosvelt :-)

Exactly… you question. And you answer. You use your own logic and rationality to make (hopefully) sensible choices about your life and the world around you.

So why bother at all with some bronze-age fairy book? Particularly considering that, as a book, it repeatedly condones and promotes racism, genocide, torture, rape, and a host of other horrors.

Why not simply make thoughtful, ethical decisions on your own?

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As for the Polish exchange student, where do I start?

I feel bad for the kid, but don’t understand why he stayed soooooo long. Of course, he never should’ve been placed with that family in the first place — there should have been a proper screening process to avoid such nightmare scenarios. Not that people with divergent opinions and beliefs can’t meet and visit and get along just fine… But to drop an unsuspecting teenager halfway around the world into a pit of fundie nutjobs (regardless of denomination) is either cruel or grossly negligent.

And the fundie-family is lucky, in a way. They could’ve ended up with someone like me. Then they would’ve thought they’d invited Satan incarnate into their home. Instead they got some mild-mannered Pole. Now that I’m older, if I were in that situation I might actually stick around to quietly erode their cozy concensus reality and try to innoculate their children against the faith-virus. But back when I was 19, I wouldn’t have been quiet at all. As soon as they started telling me how I had to accept jesus and all that, I would’ve flipped. I would’ve argued about the impossibility of freewill in a universe containing an omniscient/omnipotent creator-god and various other points of logic… all of which would have been a complete waste of time in the face of people whose paradigm is built upon unquestioning acceptance of non-disprovable fairy tales. Then, during my second hour there, I would’ve phoned my parents, my friends, and perhaps my consulate… and then maybe the exchange agency responsible for sending me to this place. Suffice to say that within a short period of time, my departure would be mutually desired.

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“For many people, part of growing up is killing off the virus of faith with a good strong dose of rational thinking. But if an individual doesn’t succeed in shaking it off, his mind is stuck in a permanent state of infancy, and there is a real danger that he will infect the next generation.” - Richard Dawkins, “The Root of All Evil?” (BBC, 2006)

curious what country you’re from. i assume you’re not russian.

as far as good/bad things the soviet union did, have you observed lately what’s going on in russia and satellite countries? appears to me they were much better off during the “good old days”. not saying many things weren’t wrong in the SU. but, i agree with you, the soviet stance towards religion i completely support.

i lived in germany and austria for close to 7 years combined. i have also encountered many deeply religious (christian) people there. however, i have never met anyone there who would be the equivalent of the american born-again evangelists. it’s an interesting issue for me, back in europe i never paid much attention to religion and to what extent people practiced it (well that is only true for xtinaity). i am very interested in the current state of things, esp. compared to things in the states.

Certainly I don’t think I’d have lasted as long as he did. I think maybe I’d have lasted a few weeks, if only because I feel genuine curiosity about those people, but I think the end result would be the same as if one of their children tried to live with the San Francisco Castro St. couples I saw during my childhood, too foreign to cope.

The hard part is that most very religious people I have met (not very many) are VERY nice and pleasant people, you like them, you don’t want to hurt them. Thankfully I never came across the evangelizing type, but I did see that they understand my lack of faith (and especially your lack of NEED of faith) as little as I understood they’re rock solid belief in a book written over many years by many men as the Word Of God.

Wearing polyester is grounds for stoning, in my book.

You don’t need to humor me. I’ve been around this site long enough to know that most of you probably, at best, think I’m silly for being a christian, or at worst, think that me and my kind are responsible for 9/11. :-) I know you don’t agree with me and that is fine with me. I’d rather we not be rude with each other, but either way, don’t worry about hurting my feelings.

I’m not sure I see the contradiction in what I said. If the Bible commands me not to do something, then I won’t (with a clear conscience) do it. If it merely suggests a best practice regarding an issue, then I’ll take that into consideration and then do whatever I decide is best. That’s all I meant.

And to be clear on something else, I never said I never question anything in the Bible. I do. Constantly. I question what each passage I read could possibly mean and how to apply that to my life today. I question whether or not there is a clear influence from the culture in which it was written that isn’t in our culture today, and how that might affect my interpretation of any instructions given. Moreover, I question the authenticity and accuracy of the texts we have today, and so much more the accuracy of the translation of those texts that I happen to be reading. If I didn’t question, I’d be stoning adulteresses and refusing to wear polyester.

“So, anyway, I never meant to convey anything as categorical as you said in your post. ”

Anyone else see the contraction?

If the bible says just to do something, you do it. You don’t question it, you just do it. You ever stop and think that there has to be some kind of reasoning behind everything in the bible be it written by man… or man inspired by god (I’ll humor you), and a lot of the reasons are very stupid, or misguided, or just don’t apply anymore.

That’s not what I said, or at least, that’s not what I meant to say. Let me try to be more clear:

The question I have is this:
Does the Bible command me not to get drunk, period, or does it merely say it’s not a good idea. If nearly every passage against drunkenness in the Bible goes something like, “Don’t get drunk, because it leads to bad things,” does that mean that getting drunk is bad in and of itself, or only because it leads to bad things. If so, what if I get drunk and it doesn’t lead to bad things? Have I done anything wrong, according to the Bible? Honestly, I’m not sure. I’ve gotten drunk with a few friends before, and it wasn’t the mind-altering orgy-fest that I grew up thinking it would be. We pretty much just sat around discussing religion and politics like always, except we might have giggled a bit more than usual. Did I do something wrong then? I’m not sure. It sure didn’t seem like it. If the Bible just said, “Don’t get drunk,” then I’d be clearer on the issue. But as I’ve already stated, the Bible doesn’t say just that.

So, anyway, I never meant to convey anything as categorical as you said in your post. All I meant to convey is that, on the issue of drinking and drinking “too much,” I, myself, am not completely sure what the Bible commands. I’m firmly convinced that there’s nothing biblically wrong with me playing it safe and just refraining from having more than a beer or two every now and then. In fact, that is what I plan to do. But on those rare occasions when I have a little too much to drink, and nothing bad results from it, I, as a christian, am not quite sure if I should be all that concerned about it.

Well if the Christians actually acted Christ-like like they claim, then how would they obtain power? Because it’s all about the power, right? I mean, Jesus was all for overthrowing the Romans and declaring himself King of the universe and making all his own laws and stuff, hey?

There is nothing about religion that angers me more than when supposedly religious people (especially Christians, just because I see them most often) use religion as nothing more than a thing to advance their own power and interests. Jesus tried to show people how siding with him was a right choice. He didn’t try to indoctrinate or use force (at least I didn’t get that impression from the Bible). He fought for ideas greater than himself and was willing to sacrifice himself for them. But when you get politicians or general zealots who just force things on you, in my mind it ruins every good thing religion has ever done for people (which religion does in fact do, from time to time).