Enough people have brought this one to my attention (Olivier & Tiberiu come to mind), so I thought I’d put it up :)
John Safran is an Australian comedian of sorts, known for his outlandish stunts and documentaries. Most notable was his 2004 series entitled "John Safran Vs God", where he traveled the globe battling religion.
In this clip, John travels to Utah to give the Mormons a little taste of their own medicine. Him and a colleague spread the good word of Atheism door-to-door in the early morning. But for some reason, most aren’t too receptive.
Now as a rule of thumb, I absolutely hate door-to-door religious salesmen and that goes for Atheism, Christianity, and any other religion. Having said that though, I hate to admit that I found this clip somewhat pleasing. Immature? Yep. But I have had these people knocking on my door many times over the last several years and it’s always at the most inopportune time… either my kid is napping, I’m napping, or the wife and I are consummating the marriage if you catch my drift. Ummm, that was too much information… sorry ’bout that ;)
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Nice :)
Does this guy have a website or some way to spread the word? heh.
Tim
oops never mind
Funny stuff.
good stuff indeed.
If an atheist came ‘preaching’ to my door, i’d probably join him for my neighbor, just for fun, as someone who goes door to door telling people NOT to be christians, has to have either a great sense of humor, or be increadibly stubborn.
makes me wonder, has anyone EVER, in the history of FOREVER, thought “Wow, this guy standing on my porch has a point, this religion is just the thing for me” a guy who, instead of taking the booklet and shutting the before dropping said booklets in the trash in one swift movement said: “see you in church tomorrow” ??
I personally think door to door preaching has the lowest succesrate of anything. Seriously, there’s more bottled lightning then door to door converts.
ps.
“take us of your list” bwahaha
You’ve got to remember, of course, that Salt Lake City is probably the one place in the English-speaking world where Mormons DON’T turn up to your front door to try to convert you.
BTW, John Safran vs God was a brilliant series. I should also put in a plug for his co-host, Father Bob McGuire (yes, a real Catholic priest). Probably the funniest genuine Catholic priest you’ll ever hear.
Wow, that guy is really really pissed off. If there’s a hell, I am so going there for laughing so hard. At least I would get to share it with that guy, though.
You guys should check out some more of the stuff on youtube on this guy. Golden!
Good point Arktis:
IF there is a hell, and IF me and all the Buddhist’s, whores, athiests’ and cool people I usually hang around with are there, then AWESOME. I would glady wage a war on your God, espescially against all the assholes who beleived in him on Earth.
Alcari,
I was Mormon before I woke up to reality. Went on a mission to Hungary and everything. We actually had statistics on this kind of thing.
I can’t vouch for the rest of the world, but in Hungary about 1 out of 6 doors you found someone home (depending on what time of day you went out). The reason Mormons come Saturday morning is because people are more likely to be home. About 1 in 200 people you found home would invite you in for a discussion. (Unrelated note: in some parts of Hungary about 1 out of 5 people who invite you in offer you a snack of lard on bread. You get used to it.) Of the people you invited in about 1 in 1000 would actually be baptised into the Mormon church. In Hungary only about 40% of new members were still atteding church after 1 year.
In contrast, if a current member of the church talked about religion to a friend and then invited them to thier own home to meet with the missionaries, about 1 in 10 of those contacts would join the church with a retention rate of about 80%.
Missionaries hate going door to door. It is the very last ditch thing that you will put in your schedual. The only time that I would go “tracting” was if we had no appointments, follow-ups, media referalls, or members to visit. We spent a lot of time visiting members and teaching them how to talk to thier friends. We all knew that this was statistically more rewarding. Also, members never slammed doors in your face.
In the city, “streeting” (talking to people at busy places such as market squares or subway terminals) was slightly more effective than “tracting.” In the smaller villages, the oposite was true. Tracting could also be dangerous in the city. I personally had rocks thrown at me, hoses sprayed at me, and paint thrown on me. One guy pulled out a knife and threated to stab us, and an older lady let lose her dogs. Most violent episodes happen almost immediately after the person opens the door, not as a result of being pushy or forceful.
So when the Mormons show up on Saturday morning, please be polite when you turn them away, they don’t really want to be there either. They are only knocking on your door because the members in thier area are not doing what is expected of them. (Not meant to invoke debate, but part of being Mormon is an expectation of performing certain duties.)
Final Note: LDS missionaries will always be 2 men or 2 women (or in rare cases 3). They will always be the same gender. If the people at your door are a male and a female, they are more likely JW. Mormons also tend to be younger (19-24) and much less pushy. (We actually started noticing that in some apartment buildings there were little tiny pencil marks on all the door frames. We found out that the JWs were marking door frames with the times people were not home.)
Andrew:
Holy shit, listening to you talk about people like they were cattle for your Lord is IDENTICAL to the way every marketing/sales team talks about consumers.
Treat people like cattle or retards, and the ones who aren’t are going to react in a very violent way. I remember the fun of fucking with Mormons and Jehosav Witnesses on a weekend. Dressing up like Satanists, spraying them with blood; and going around with them on their route until they either gave up or called the cops on us.
This stuff infuriates me, and was the single reason I stopped respecting all religions. If I see any commercial, billboard or group of fuckwits actually trying to convert people, I go nuts. If it was the right path and so god damn cool, you wouldn’t have to sell it like it was product.
Sorry to go off like that, but honestly if you’re on my property, or even my line of sight; you’re going to regret your choice of beleif that day.
Shaze,
That’s a lot of anger. I am no longer Mormon. Religion is a product, and missionaries are salesman. Many young Mormons come back from thier missions and take sales jobs for just that reason. If you can sell religion, you can sell anything.
In most contries, it is legal for missionaries and vacuum cleaner salesmen to solicit door to door. Throwing blood on religious solicitors is about as appropriate as throwing blood on vacuum salesmen. The truth is, that if you polietly ask the Mormons or the vacuum salesmen to leave, they will. Having violent (an illegal) reactions to someone showing up at your door, a billboard, or a commercial is not rational.
If you think religious solictors are all bad people, get back at them by being a better person than them. Spraying a religious person with blood just stregthens their conviction that people are evil and need to be saved.
Mormon missionaries are trained to walk right past houses with “no solicitors” signs, which is the legal way to exempt yourself from otherwise protected-by-law solicitation. You are very lucky you were not sued or jailed for spraying blood.
All of that aside, I do not really see how talking about statistics equates to talking about people like cattle. Statitistics a useful tool in any field from religion to marketing to medicine.
Yeah Andrew, I’d have to agree on the point that Shaze is a pretty angry fellow. I’ve said so myself once already. Quite aggressive.
That’s not to say that Shaze doesn’t have anything valuable to contribute though. Certainly.
“Statistics are a useful tool in any field from religion to marketing to medicine.”
Ok, first off I’m sorry for hating organized Religions and their followers. I gave up caring about the people who gave up on the merits (we’re all sinfully doomed) of mankind, a LONG fucking time ago. (Gazmondo gave me shit already)
Second, Statistics and Marketing are the real evil in this world, right up there with Religion. To quote my good friend Bill Hicks, “Quit putting a godamm dollar sign on every fucking thing on this planet!” Anytime ANYTHING at all, is quantified in someone’s Mathematics or discreet view of a situation, it is wrong. Not mathematically wrong I’m sure, just that the logic being applied is biased.
I appreciate everyone’s patience with me and promise I will try to refrain from emotional argument in the future. But I will not debate semantics; or sit idly by and watch my brothers and sisters get “sold” on religion any further. It has to stop.
Statistics are not just about dollar signs. Everyone uses statistics every day to make choices, including you. Right now I feel healthy. By breathing is good, I don’t have any pain. So I will not go see a doctor today. With my current lack of symptoms I know there is a high statistical probability that there is nothing wrong with me, so no doctor today. However, I could have a brain tumor. Without statistics telling me that is is unlikely that I have a brain tumor, I would have to go get an MRI everyday just to be sure.
I will eat 2 eggs this morning. A very small number of eggs are sent to the market with a partially-formed chick in the egg. I actually know someone who cracks every egg into a cup, just in case. I, however, crack the egg directly into the pan, knowing that I will most likely get a normal egg.
A deeper question for you. Why do you belive that bias is morally wrong?
There is nothing wrong with being angry at religion. I am angry at religion, and I am angry at pushy people. Emotion is an integral part of argument; I wouldn’t deprive you of that. However, I am concerned that your anger leads to you to do illegal and inhumane acts.
HAH!
Well I leave your logic regarding Statistics alone, but your examples are a comical supplication for the evils Statistics play in media and real life.
I “think” the bias is morally wrong because people and situations should never be quantified in a short answer. Mathematical answers, as we all know are often accepted too quickly, until someone else re-examines the question.
And as for your concerns about my self control, I appreciate the candor, but I’m offended by your presumptions. I find that sometimes, a verbal argument is not near as effective as a physical protest. People, like students, only really remember things they want to remember. But scare the shit out of them, or wow them with some crazy ass charade; and they’ll remember what you were trying to say their whole lives.
Don’t worry brother, I have too much love and happiness in my life to throw it away because of hate. I won’t be burning down Church’s anytime soon, but once Religion threatens something I feel very strongly about (like stem cells or queers), I’ll be the first one to protest physically.
Bias is a natural part of how humans work. Categorization is a shortcut where certain aspects lead us to put an object in a group with other objects because of a percieved relationship. It is waht makes us able to go into a funrtinute store, see a few blocks of wood assembled in a slightly different way than some other blocks of wood, and instantly releaze that they are both “chairs.”
Categorization bias leads us to assign traits to objects based on learned assumptions about the category the object belongs to. When we see a chair we automatically assume that it’s function is to be sat on.
Without this type of bias, we would have to ask the furniture salesman about the purpose of each chair we see in the store. In fact, without bias, we would have to do a detailed analysis of every object we see everytime we see it. Are brains are hardwired for bias to lighten the cognitive load.
Do you like McDonald’s french fries? You must be biased to answer this question. Unless you are eating McDonald’s french fries right now, then you are applying a categorization bias. You like or dislike the fries based on past experiences. There is no fundimental reason to belive that the next french fry you eat will taste anything like any of the others. You brain uses a statisical bias called confirmation bias to tell you that you like fries. Each time you eat a fry and like it, your bias is confirmed. Occasionally, you’ll get a soggy fry, but because you already belive you like fries, you will ignore this data point. Statistically, you are more likely to get a fry that is in line with your bias, so there is no cognative reason to modify it.
Statistics are benign. It is statistical reporting that is dangerous. Most journalists do not understand statisics, so they make assumptions that are not in line with what is reported. That is why I get scientific news from scientific journals, and not from Popular Science.
Categorization & Statistics = Generalizing
You sir, are no better than any Racist, Elitest or Biased/Religious Nut by shutting your brain off to change.
I get that we’re on the same side in this case, but understand that I am not just against Religion. I am against ignorance.
Are you trying to say you’re not human, Shaze?
Hi All,
Just a quick note about John Safran and his work. John’s series “John Safran Vs God” is not what I’d describe as a series that “he traveled the globe battling religion”. Instead, he tended to take all the religion’s he encountered at their face value, and through taking them somewhat seriously, he then showed some of the absurdity of them.
Having said that, John himself is Jewish, although not a practicing jew (in his words). John also hosts a religious radio show in Australia with Father Bob Maguire (http://www.fatherbob.com.au/) which discusses religious issues. A podcast of the weekly show is available at http://triplej.net.au/safran/
Mat
Please explain how categorization, generalizing, or statistics makes me no better than a racist.
When I walk into a pet store, I can instantly tell the difference between a cat and a dog. This is because my brain has catergorized the animals into these seperate groups. I can further tell the difference between a dauschund and a beagle, and still know that they are both dogs.
When a friend introduces me to thier newborn baby, I greet it by tickling it on the cheek, not be extending my hand for a handshake. I generalize that all babies will respond better to the former than the later.
When I play Settlers of Catan, I try to claim corners on 6′s and 8′s because I know that there in a 5 in 36 chance that a 6 will be rolled. I avoid corners on 12 because I know there is only a 1 in 36 chance they will be rolled. I do this regardless of the fact that I know is is possible that neither a 6 nor and 8 will be rolled the whole game.
Which of theses makes me no better than a racist? Do you examine each animal you meet and compare it to a textbook before determining what it is? Do you treat babies the same as adults?
The inability to generalize is a component of both Asperger’s and Autism. The inability to categorize can be is frequent in people with temporal lobe lesions.
first of, because i’m a bit later to the discussion, thanks for the stats. I wonder if they realise that the odds of converting someone are about equal to being hit by an asteroid….
(http://www.livescience.com/forcesofnature/050106_odds_of_dying.html)
“”Most journalists do not understand statisics, so they make assumptions that are not in line with what is reported.”"
The most dreadful thing is when I hear a staticstic like “40% of all motor incidents were because of women” people asume that men wreck their cars half again as often as woman. (if you can’t figure out what’s wrong with this, go back to school, really)
“”Statistics are benign. It is statistical reporting that is dangerous.”"
yeah, i said it before, but QFT.
“”The inability to categorize can be is frequent in people with temporal lobe lesions.”"
**snicker**
.
.
Now, to drag this back on semi-topic.
“”I personally had rocks thrown at me, (…) an older lady let lose her dogs.”"
Wow, kudos for persistance, It never seizes to amaze me what kind of assholes you kind find in the world.
“”So when the Mormons show up on Saturday morning, please be polite when you turn them away, they don’t really want to be there either.”"
Erm, so, why do they go? Is it like they have to go ‘or else’??
Alcari,
“Erm, so, why do they go? Is it like they have to go ‘or else’??”
In a spiritual sense yes. In the Mormon faith, every male is expected (by God) to go on a 2 year mission at the age of 19. Although technically voluntary, the guilt and ostracization you risk for not going make it a requirement. Doubly so if you live in a Mormon-dense area like Utah or Idaho. In these areas, it may even be hard to find a girl to marry in the church, because they have been brought up to believe that they should marry a return missionary. (That’s not such a problem in places with less Mormons, like where I live, as finding anyone in the church around the same age as you is a small miracle.)
More specifically, I was talking about door-pounding. It is only one small aspect of what the missionaries do, and is the least pleasant. However, from 9:30am to 9:30pm a missionary has to be out there working, and if you had nothing else to fill your time, that’s what you did. There were parts of being a missionary I really enjoyed. We did service at a home for blind children — that was cool. We taught free English lessons once a week for anyone who wanted them. I even enjoyed talking to people on the street. But trust me, going door to door in -6 degree weather was not something anyone really wanted to do.
While on a mission, most missionaries don’t question what they are doing. The sense of duty leads one to do it. The worst thing that could happen is that you would be sent home early. Going to church after that is like being dishonorably discharged from the military and then walking into a VFW every Sunday. I’m sure this fear keeps some missionaries in line.
Throughout Mormon life you are always asked to do things, but told that you are called by God to do them. This forces you to do it because of guilt. (True believers claim you do it because you love God.) I realized this about 2 years after my mission when I was examining why exactly I taught Sunday School to 12 year olds if I hated it so much. It was this realization that finally made me examine by religious beliefs.
I’m really not trying to be an ass or completely ignorant when I post this, but why are really intelligent people a part of some of these (in my opinion) ridiculous religions such as Mormonism?
I’m dating a Mormon girl now, going on for almost 10 months and I don’t see how the part of her family that is Mormon can possibly believe all of it. I’ve talked to her about it and she said she doesn’t know if she believes in it and I’m thinking she may stop practicing but then I also think she could never do that because she would be disowned by her family. It boggles my mind how hypocritical Mormonism is and how the kids are pretty much brainwashed into believing all of it.
Sorry if that didn’t make much sense, but it’s nice to vent around people that feel more or less the same way I do about religion in general and seem to be rather informed about it.
Greg,
Sorry to hear about your girlfriend. It seems like her family are bad Mormons. If they were truly living the religion as it it taught and preached, the word “disown” would not be in their vocabulary. In fact, such an idea is a sin in the Mormon religion — giving up on your family’s eternal salvation is about the worst thing a Mormon can do. I guess they are some of the countless people that say they are a member of a religion but really don’t understand it or live it.
I think that a lot of intelligent people choose or remain in Mormonism because it has slightly less logic flaws than most protestant religions. Here are some common flaws and the “Mormon solution.”
1. How can a just god send people who die without being baptized to hell, including good people who never heard about Christ? Solution: Eternal Progression. Mormons believe that you can learn and progress spiritually even after death. You can hear about and accept Christ after you are dead. (Hell is also a totally different concept in Mormonism than mainstream Christianity.)
2. If god is omniscient and omnipotent how can free will exist? Well, part of the doctrine of Eternal Progression is that people can eventually become gods and create their own universes and everything. Joseph Smith said “As man is, God once was, as God is, man may become.” If God is also continuing to progress eternally, than omniscience and omnipotence isn’t really possible. They use the words, but in Mormon context they mean “way smarter” and “way more powerful” than you.
3. Why does God have prophets and direct contact up until the original apostles died, and then suddenly choose a policy of having no further prophets? Mormons believe that there is a prophet and that God literally talks to him just like he talked to Moses and Abraham.
Obviously, there are still major logic problems with other aspects of this religion, but they did a good job patching up some of the most disquieting ones. (Technically, the doctrine of Eternal Progression can be used to partially solve the famous “Problem of evil.” I leave it as an exercise for the reader.) It also appeals to the intellectual because secular education is encouraged by the Church, presumably because when you are a god you will need to know some physics and chemistry.
To address the question of “intelligent” people being a part of the LDS church, or any organized religion for that matter…Logic and true rational thought have very little to do with one’s decision to join a particular religion or denomination. According to one study (can’t remember which one to reference right now – sorry), the reason why people join any sort of group or become a fanatical follower of anything (cults, WWE fans, Star Trek convention goers, etc.) is because: 1) the feeling of belonging and acceptance that comes with being part of a group and 2) the desire for a higher goal or objectve above one’s own personal needs. Anecdotally, many people have told me they switched churches because of the “atmosphere” or the “congregation.” Many people join a church due to the feeling of “fellowship.” How many attend services for a truly introspective, isolated, individual experience? I’m guessing not too many people. Religions are based on man’s social tendencies and inherent desire to conform to the rules of the social group. Very rare is the religion that relies solely on individual experiences. Intelligent people go to church because of the rapport and sense of community they feel when they attend. And hey, if the values and tenants of the particular religion really fit their owns beliefs, then even better. Not to say that these major beliefs have nothing to do with one’s religious leanings, but I wouldn’t say that they are the primary reasons for one’s choice of religion.
As for the video…Yes, it’s annoying to be awakened at 8 am on Saturday morning, but come on. How often does it happen that Safran has to be an obnoxious a-hole and just make atheists’ reputations even worse? And if he’s going to go touting Darwinian theory as atheist doctrine, then maybe he should actually learn some science first.
John Safran is a douchebag.
“They are only knocking on your door because the members in thier area are not doing what is expected of them.” Quoted from the post by the Mormon who went on a mission to Hungary.
OMG – This is not a religion it is a brain washing, accountabilty stripping, money making corporation. (PAY YOUR TITHING!!!!)The things that pass for spirituality today I just don’t understand. God by the numbers? 1 in 100, 40% stick rate, 80% if coerced (sorry, “talked to”) by friends – only in America – My favorite quote “You don’t belong to a church? What do you do for a social life?”
Anybody have an idea how to stem this tide – the comics are trying but it doesn’t seem to be working!
Puching them in the face for intruding on your propery would probably do the trick ;)
Safran nailed to cross
9:30am | AAP
RADIO comic John Safran has had himself crucified in the Philippines in the gory annual Good Friday rituals imitating the death of Jesus Christ.
[...] even has his athiest badge! Funnily enough it p!sses off the mormons like it does everyone else! John Safran Takes Atheism On The Road, Mormon Style! ? Religious Freaks I reject your reality and insert my [...]
Just saying hello to you all .. Still a bit confused about the goings on here, but I guess I’ll keep poking around.
i am a mormon and this is hilarious. i was going to go on a mission but idk now if it seems to bother people that much. missionaries go to bed at 9:00. curfew in wisconsin is 9:30 and they are up by 5 and out tracting(that is the door to door thing you guys hate)by 7 they walk miles each day and they probably only talk to a 4-6 people a day. and maybe 1 person a month will end up getting baptised.shouldn’t that tell mormons something?!?!?!?!i was born into a mormon family so it wasn’t my choise to be mormon. i would join athism today if my parents wouldnt ground me for infinity:p….lol
look me up in 2 years…
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John Safran Takes Atheism On The Road, Mormon Style! » Religious Freaks…