OMG - This is not a religion it is a brain washing, accountabilty stripping, money making corporation. (PAY YOUR TITHING!!!!)The things that pass for spirituality today I just don’t understand. God by the numbers? 1 in 100, 40% stick rate, 80% if coerced (sorry, “talked to”) by friends - only in America - My favorite quote “You don’t belong to a church? What do you do for a social life?”

Anybody have an idea how to stem this tide - the comics are trying but it doesn’t seem to be working!

As for the video…Yes, it’s annoying to be awakened at 8 am on Saturday morning, but come on. How often does it happen that Safran has to be an obnoxious a-hole and just make atheists’ reputations even worse? And if he’s going to go touting Darwinian theory as atheist doctrine, then maybe he should actually learn some science first.

Sorry to hear about your girlfriend. It seems like her family are bad Mormons. If they were truly living the religion as it it taught and preached, the word “disown” would not be in their vocabulary. In fact, such an idea is a sin in the Mormon religion — giving up on your family’s eternal salvation is about the worst thing a Mormon can do. I guess they are some of the countless people that say they are a member of a religion but really don’t understand it or live it.

I think that a lot of intelligent people choose or remain in Mormonism because it has slightly less logic flaws than most protestant religions. Here are some common flaws and the “Mormon solution.”

1. How can a just god send people who die without being baptized to hell, including good people who never heard about Christ? Solution: Eternal Progression. Mormons believe that you can learn and progress spiritually even after death. You can hear about and accept Christ after you are dead. (Hell is also a totally different concept in Mormonism than mainstream Christianity.)

2. If god is omniscient and omnipotent how can free will exist? Well, part of the doctrine of Eternal Progression is that people can eventually become gods and create their own universes and everything. Joseph Smith said “As man is, God once was, as God is, man may become.” If God is also continuing to progress eternally, than omniscience and omnipotence isn’t really possible. They use the words, but in Mormon context they mean “way smarter” and “way more powerful” than you.

3. Why does God have prophets and direct contact up until the original apostles died, and then suddenly choose a policy of having no further prophets? Mormons believe that there is a prophet and that God literally talks to him just like he talked to Moses and Abraham.

Obviously, there are still major logic problems with other aspects of this religion, but they did a good job patching up some of the most disquieting ones. (Technically, the doctrine of Eternal Progression can be used to partially solve the famous “Problem of evil.” I leave it as an exercise for the reader.) It also appeals to the intellectual because secular education is encouraged by the Church, presumably because when you are a god you will need to know some physics and chemistry.

I’m dating a Mormon girl now, going on for almost 10 months and I don’t see how the part of her family that is Mormon can possibly believe all of it. I’ve talked to her about it and she said she doesn’t know if she believes in it and I’m thinking she may stop practicing but then I also think she could never do that because she would be disowned by her family. It boggles my mind how hypocritical Mormonism is and how the kids are pretty much brainwashed into believing all of it.

Sorry if that didn’t make much sense, but it’s nice to vent around people that feel more or less the same way I do about religion in general and seem to be rather informed about it.

“Erm, so, why do they go? Is it like they have to go ‘or else’??”

In a spiritual sense yes. In the Mormon faith, every male is expected (by God) to go on a 2 year mission at the age of 19. Although technically voluntary, the guilt and ostracization you risk for not going make it a requirement. Doubly so if you live in a Mormon-dense area like Utah or Idaho. In these areas, it may even be hard to find a girl to marry in the church, because they have been brought up to believe that they should marry a return missionary. (That’s not such a problem in places with less Mormons, like where I live, as finding anyone in the church around the same age as you is a small miracle.)

More specifically, I was talking about door-pounding. It is only one small aspect of what the missionaries do, and is the least pleasant. However, from 9:30am to 9:30pm a missionary has to be out there working, and if you had nothing else to fill your time, that’s what you did. There were parts of being a missionary I really enjoyed. We did service at a home for blind children — that was cool. We taught free English lessons once a week for anyone who wanted them. I even enjoyed talking to people on the street. But trust me, going door to door in -6 degree weather was not something anyone really wanted to do.

While on a mission, most missionaries don’t question what they are doing. The sense of duty leads one to do it. The worst thing that could happen is that you would be sent home early. Going to church after that is like being dishonorably discharged from the military and then walking into a VFW every Sunday. I’m sure this fear keeps some missionaries in line.

Throughout Mormon life you are always asked to do things, but told that you are called by God to do them. This forces you to do it because of guilt. (True believers claim you do it because you love God.) I realized this about 2 years after my mission when I was examining why exactly I taught Sunday School to 12 year olds if I hated it so much. It was this realization that finally made me examine by religious beliefs.

“”Most journalists do not understand statisics, so they make assumptions that are not in line with what is reported.”"

The most dreadful thing is when I hear a staticstic like “40% of all motor incidents were because of women” people asume that men wreck their cars half again as often as woman. (if you can’t figure out what’s wrong with this, go back to school, really)

“”Statistics are benign. It is statistical reporting that is dangerous.”"
yeah, i said it before, but QFT.

“”The inability to categorize can be is frequent in people with temporal lobe lesions.”"
**snicker**

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Now, to drag this back on semi-topic.

“”I personally had rocks thrown at me, (…) an older lady let lose her dogs.”"

Wow, kudos for persistance, It never seizes to amaze me what kind of assholes you kind find in the world.

“”So when the Mormons show up on Saturday morning, please be polite when you turn them away, they don’t really want to be there either.”"

Erm, so, why do they go? Is it like they have to go ‘or else’??

When I walk into a pet store, I can instantly tell the difference between a cat and a dog. This is because my brain has catergorized the animals into these seperate groups. I can further tell the difference between a dauschund and a beagle, and still know that they are both dogs.

When a friend introduces me to thier newborn baby, I greet it by tickling it on the cheek, not be extending my hand for a handshake. I generalize that all babies will respond better to the former than the later.

When I play Settlers of Catan, I try to claim corners on 6’s and 8’s because I know that there in a 5 in 36 chance that a 6 will be rolled. I avoid corners on 12 because I know there is only a 1 in 36 chance they will be rolled. I do this regardless of the fact that I know is is possible that neither a 6 nor and 8 will be rolled the whole game.

Which of theses makes me no better than a racist? Do you examine each animal you meet and compare it to a textbook before determining what it is? Do you treat babies the same as adults?

The inability to generalize is a component of both Asperger’s and Autism. The inability to categorize can be is frequent in people with temporal lobe lesions.

Just a quick note about John Safran and his work. John’s series “John Safran Vs God” is not what I’d describe as a series that “he traveled the globe battling religion”. Instead, he tended to take all the religion’s he encountered at their face value, and through taking them somewhat seriously, he then showed some of the absurdity of them.

Having said that, John himself is Jewish, although not a practicing jew (in his words). John also hosts a religious radio show in Australia with Father Bob Maguire (http://www.fatherbob.com.au/) which discusses religious issues. A podcast of the weekly show is available at http://triplej.net.au/safran/

Mat