NPR had a great show on yesterday about an evangelical Christian group called the Christian Embassy and it’s ties to the Pentagon. The issue was raised when a video surfaced showing several key military and civilian players at the Pentagon endorsing the Christian group. This may sound like a yawner, but I managed to find the video and I honestly have to say that I’m rather shocked.
The video clearly shows several Pentagon officials endorsing Christianity and admitting that it guides their decision making process. Words can’t even begin to describe the video. One Senior Executive, Judy Guenther, breaks down in tears talking about how Jesus died just for her and saved her from a life of sin. Do you want her making decisions that quite possible effect the entire globe? I sure don’t!
Take a look and watch the entire video. Near the end you’ll even see Republican Congressman Gresham Barrett of South Carolina burst into tears. Good God man!
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December 12th, 2006 at 7:27 pm
I officially give up - when can the non-believers start colonizing Mars.
December 12th, 2006 at 8:44 pm
I’m not surprised by this and I’m not really that concerned. It’s really no secret that a lot of government officials consider themselves Christian and claim that Christian principals influence their decision. Even Clinton said similar things. It’s mostly just talk.
Also the term “Senior Executive” is a bit misleading. There are hundreds of Senior Executives just at the Pentagon. In the entire Senior Executive Service there are over 6,000 Senior Executives serving in different areas of US Government. So if a couple dozen of them want to have bible study, it’s not that big of a deal.
As for Judy:
Judith A. Guenther serves on the Army Secretariat as the Director of Investment for the Deputy Assistant Secretary of the Army (ASA) for Budget. She was assigned to this position in July 1999. She serves as the principal advisor to the Deputy ASA for budgetary policies and issues involving Army investment resources (including procurement, research and development, military construction and family housing).
Source: http://www.asafm.army.mil/secretariat/bios/Guenther.asp
She chooses whether the military is going to use Goodyear or Michelin, and what food service company is going to make meals in army mess halls. She in in charge of implementing portions of the budget, but she does not write the budget. Not exactly “making decisions that quite possible effect the entire globe.”
December 12th, 2006 at 8:57 pm
Shit.
December 12th, 2006 at 9:09 pm
Reagan based some of his decisions on Astrology.
December 12th, 2006 at 11:07 pm
“my first priority is my faith in god then my family THEN my country”
WTF
December 13th, 2006 at 2:33 am
Some woman in the movie states: â€he died on the cross for me personallyâ€
Ok, can anybody please explain this for me?
How does jesus dying on a cross help anybody in any way, is there some hidden zero sum game in the bible that I haven’t seen? OK, here you have this one guy that experience something really shitty, so since he endured that we are all in the free because…why?? Sorry I don’t get it. Another thing, jesus is supposed to have given the ultimate sacrifice….What?? According to the bible he is the almighty God for crying out loud (or at least his son) so why should something as trivial as giving up his physical form be any problem at all, and BTW he didn’t even sacrifice that, he was resurrected after 3 days so what kind of sacrifice is this??? On top of that he didn’t even go through it with a straight face, one should think that this power guru could endure some earthly pain without blaming God, but nooooo… he even abandons his belief on that cross, “My God, My God, why have you forsaken me?†So why do Christians insist its all a matter of faith, when even his “one true son†turns on away in his time of need??
OK, ill stop rambling now….
December 13th, 2006 at 3:05 am
The general idea (that varying in degree depending on sect) is that all sin must be paid for by punishment. However, the punishment can be done to a proxy, if the proxy happens to be Jesus. In the Garden, Jesus became a proxy for all past and future sins, and suffered pain for them so bad that he bled from every pore. Only Jesus could be the proxy because only someone Divine could possibly have enough love and willpower to atone for all the sins of mankind. So yes, it’s a hidden zero sum game.
The “ultimate sacrifice” thing gets explained 3 different ways depending on who you ask. 1. The ultimate sacrifice was the atonement in the Garden. See above. 2. The ultimate sacrifice was dying on the cross in a humiliating manner to demonstrate that the world is wicked enough to attempt to kill God. 3. The ultimate sacrifice was separating himself from the presence of God to come to Earth. (This view is less common, but you hear it from people who believe that Hell is the permanent separation of a person from God’s presence.)
All three of those reasons have nothing to do with losing his body, so the resurrection question isn’t that relevant.
The people who believe #2 about would point to the fact that he was choosing not to use divine power to manage the pain, and God also did not supply him with any. The reasoning is that he had to suffer pain as a man in able to truly take on the pain and sins of mankind.
Disclosure: I am an ex-Mormon and now an Atheist.
December 13th, 2006 at 10:02 am
Thank you for a thorough answer to my question. It makes no sense to me but I guess it makes sense to believers.
BTW: I would love to hear your story, you being a ex-mormon, maybe gasmonso could open a thread somewhere where people leaving such groups could tell their story (or would this be to personal?).
Anyway, let’s hope that the courts around the world don’t start to practice this type of law. I would hate to be appointed as a proxy :)
December 13th, 2006 at 10:24 am
I really hope this is just a propaganda video for naive fundies. It would be too shocking if it werer real.
December 13th, 2006 at 11:34 am
NewOne, I agree… there needs to be an outlet for people who have seen the light. Recently I asked if I should add a forum and more readers said yes than no.
I will probably set up a nice little forum section and this would be a great place for people like Andrew to share their story.
Of course, I guarantee religious people who converted from Atheism will share theirs as well :)
More on that in an update this afternoon!
gasmonso
December 13th, 2006 at 1:23 pm
NewOne: I’m game. I am an ex-Mormon myself, although my story is probably not too different from anyone leaving any of the Christian faiths. Most of the progression is in my blog. When I first started I was still faithful and over the course of the last year I have progressed into the atheist you see here today.
December 13th, 2006 at 1:25 pm
BTW: Andrew, were you Mormon born and raised or a later convert? I was raised Mormon, even did a mission, and I always find it interesting to see why others left.
December 13th, 2006 at 2:15 pm
Hey, why don’t I get any recognition? I was born and raised a southern baptist and kicked the god habit to become an atheist! Not that it was a huge accomplishment, since I, to this day, fail to understand how anyone with an IQ greater than that of oatmeal can actually believe all that god nonsense. But I digress, where is my hero cookie?!?
Oh on the topic at hand. Na, doesn’t make me fear one bit. The world has survived this long ruled by religious freakazoids, and likely will be for a looooong time to come since people seem to have this need to have SOMETHING make them feel like they are something special. Actually loved by a omnipotent being. One that sits on their shoulder and guides their pathetic little lives like some kind of driver. If that makes them feel better than me, so be it. I know the truth and don’t need Allahbuddahjehovahgodzeusthor to tell me.
December 13th, 2006 at 2:50 pm
I was born Mormon, did a Mission in Hungary, and left the church a few years after. I’ve talked about parts of it in different threads.
Hmm… Maybe if I had Mormons coming into my workplace EVERY FREAKIN DAY to have Book of Mormon study with me I wouldn’t have left… Where’s the “Mormon Embassy” or for that matter the “Jewish Embassy” and “Muslim Embassy?” Do these groups not care about the souls in the Pentagon or is the “Christian Embassy” getting special treatment?
December 13th, 2006 at 3:28 pm
Michael: Here is your cookie. (:.) Chocolate chip I believe. Seriously though, I can totally agree with the oatmeal IQ remark. That said, I spent almost 27 years believing that nonsense. Suddenly I feel dumber…
Andrew: Did mine in the exotic region of Dayton, Ohio… boring but at least I could eat the food. One of my buddies did Korea and nearly starved to death. Something about wanting his food dead BEFORE he ate it…
December 13th, 2006 at 3:54 pm
ok, to drag this back on topic…
I was rather shocked by the same thing as Rickler up there.
“”“my first priority is my faith in god then my family THEN my country—"
excuse me? so, instead of doing your job, you’re just going to do whatever you feel like? Hmmmm, i’d get fired if I said that.
Now, I don’t give a **** about whatever superstition anyone chooses to follow, as long as it doesn’t impair their ability to function, both on your job as well as in society. Putting ‘god’ before whatever you’re supposed to be doing should get you fired.
“”Dayton, Ohio… boring but at least I could eat the food. One of my buddies did Korea and nearly starved to death. Something about wanting his food dead BEFORE he ate it…”"
try being a vegitarian…have fun surviving in most of the land-locked states. (or central europe for that matter)
December 13th, 2006 at 5:12 pm
Alcari:I have to agree, although if you had asked me that during my religious years I’d have chosen God over any job. One of the downsides of dealing with the brainwashed is their inability to see said brainwashing.
December 13th, 2006 at 5:25 pm
The “God then family then job” mantra is really just a cliché. I’m sure everyone in the SES works 40 hours a week, spends less than 10 hours with their family (watching TV doesn’t count, in my opinion), and spends 5 hours tops doing religious activities.
It’s easy to say, “If God told me to quit my job I would.” It’s easy because God doesn’t exist so he’ll never ask you that. Now family over job I understand, and I know there are people out there who quit there jobs to take car of sick family or to relocate because of their spouse’s career.
Side note: I live in Ohio. Was Yellow Springs part of the Dayton Mission? I ask because the strangest thing I ever ate was in Yellow Springs. Madagascar hissing cockroach. It tasted kind of like liver.
December 13th, 2006 at 5:55 pm
Andrew: Dayton was actually in the Columbus mission but I spent my entire time in and around Dayton including Beaver Creek, Xenia, and Fairborn (little Kentucky). Yellow Springs was one area I didn’t get to.
As to the “If God told me to I would quit my job thing”, I quit more than one job over persecution for being Mormon in a strongly Baptist/Catholic community. The moment I said I was Mormon most want me sent out on a rail.
December 13th, 2006 at 7:53 pm
This is just plain disgusting. Would Jesus work in The Pentagon?
Remind me that this country was built upon the desire for the settlers to enjoy religious freedom. That also includes the right to not worship some nonsense invisible man in the sky.
These idiots who have infiltrated the authorized militia of this land need to be purged.
December 14th, 2006 at 3:07 am
@ dave
Maybe you got his the wrong way around, it could be that these guys are â€soldiers†first, then men of God. It’s all about getting their hands on Gods arsenal. Just picture it. Whatever country opposing US would really be in for it.
Bush: OMG they are asking for it, call in the circle.
General: First platoon form praying circle!
/prayer circle formed/
Officer: Sir. first praying circle is ready
General: Sir, circle is ready to go.
Bush: Good, commence prayer…….muhahahaaha!!
/Target country is engulfed in fire and brimstone, while angels annihilates anyone trying to escape.
Jupp, why use conventional weapons if you can get a almighty mass murderer on your side http://dwindlinginunbelief.blogspot.com/2006/08/how-many-has-god-killed.html
@gasmonso: Im looking forward to reading the stories of the people who have leaved the more obscure religious movements. I believe this will be both educational and also give these people some way of talking (anonymously) to others who have experienced something similar.
Personally I do not have any great stories about leaving any church societies, I was a casual member of the “state church†in Norway (earlier we were all automatically included at birth), during my confirmation I chose to go to a “confirmation camp†for a few days, since it was much more convenient than showing up for class every Friday for 6 months.
Anyway at this camp I took a serious bashing from the people in charge. Because I advocated Darwin in one of the first discussions at this camp, I was referred to as “monkey boy†for the rest of my stay. Wtf!! I was a young man back then and took this hard, having grown ups calling me names and really sticking it to me whenever possible. When I came back from camp I terminated my “membership†with the church and wrote a long article which I sent to the newspaper. I believe the consequences where minor for the people in question, but I felt much better after my article was printed in the newspaper, at last I had been able to get back at them in some way.
December 14th, 2006 at 4:02 am
if god asked me to bang a hot, tall, blond, i totally would…
December 14th, 2006 at 5:14 am
hey, there’s no proof god did anything, you can just say he did.
Now, that wouldn’t be much of a problem with the blonde (*), the real problem lies when “god tells you to invade isreal/kill all unbelievers/forbid condoms” etc
(*) yeah, i know, no need to bring it up, whatever you’re thinking, i didn’t mean it like that.
December 14th, 2006 at 12:37 pm
NewOne said: “he even abandons his belief on that cross, “My God, My God, why have you forsaken me?†”
Now this is a misleading representation of what this means.
Jesus was quoting a psalm(Psalm 22) with that phrase. Most believe that it was a prayer to god from him.
read the psalm: http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=23&chapter=22&version=31
If you read it you will see it is almost a prophecy of the death of the messiah and the pain he will suffer for the whole world.
Disclaimer: I am Jewish by birth, Catholic by upbringing and Atheist by choice, although I am not opposed to Deism.
December 25th, 2006 at 12:09 pm
With religious freaks in control of the military (and the country) , it’s no surprise that Gays and Lesbians can’t serve freely in the military. How many arabic translators have been expelled from the military because they are Gay? And we need them now more than ever! What idiots the military decision makers are!
April 11th, 2008 at 4:23 pm
The Pentagon should start bieng time cop. The new testiment Bible verse that says “we are all together shakin together one body” has shunk by a few words in a planet wide time warp that has zapped all the Bibles on planet Earth. The wicked people at the museum where the origanal manuscript is at have blasted the books with their jet black voice patterns and smothered it. I suspect the security guard at that museum is also a suspect doing this to the Good Book. If more bible verses change magically in a time warp people should get together and relate how they origanely remember it. I dont remember that verse about the Dragen in the Book Of Revelation having ten horns and seven heads like the beast it use to say there is a “second beast”