Recently on CNN I caught a video showcasing the story of a very gifted 12-years-old artist named Akiane Kramarik. There have been several young artists in the past, but I find Akiane rather unique.
What makes Akiane so fascinating is not so much how well she paints, but rather the subject of her work and her inspiration. Akiane claims to have met God when she was just 3. He told her that she needs to paint and help the less fortunate. He also noted that he’d be there to guide her along the way.
It gets more bizarre when you discover that her mother is an Atheist and her father a recovering Catholic. Religion was never discussed in the house and the kids are all home schooled.
Before you write her off as a freak, watch the report below, read this, and take a look at her art.
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June 12th, 2010 at 9:39 pm
Spitze Design hat dieser Blog. Woher hast du die Vorlage ? War bestimmt sehr teuer.
June 10th, 2010 at 1:54 pm
MÅLERI
June 7th, 2010 at 12:32 am
Why NUVIGIL builds on the success of Modafinil…
General Information on Nuvigil and Alertec I think many of us have already experienced conditions of recurring sleepiness during the day……
May 1st, 2010 at 2:23 pm
The Beatles Sgt Pepper Action Figure Set of 4 by McFarlane line features John, Paul, George and Ringo outfitted in their Sgt. Pepper outfits from the movie. Every different Beatle is packaged accompanied by a extra character belonging to the motion picture, supplying consumers 2 figures for the expense of 1.
April 14th, 2010 at 3:03 am
Hi, I was scanning another fact about this on another blog. Interesting. Your perspective on it is diametrically contradicted from what I read earlier. I am still pondering with the opposite points of view, but I’m leaning to a great extent toward yours. And irrespective, that’s what is so superb about modern-day democracy and the marketplace of ideas online.
March 17th, 2010 at 4:42 pm
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March 6th, 2010 at 2:08 pm
Rachael, which god is it that you worship. Surely it can’t be that bastion of evil, the Christian god. Consider these points in response to your statements:
Re 1. “My God doesn’t tell me to kill Jews.”:
In Genesis, god orders Abraham to kill Isaac as a burnt offering. At that point in history, Isaac was effectively Jewish. And that’s just a start on the many, many instances of Christian god ordering killings of man and beast. God even gives horridly detailed instructions for performing ritualistic animal sacrifices. Such bloody rituals must be important to God, judging from the number of times that he repeats the instructions. Indeed the entire first nine chapters of Leviticus can be summarized as follows: Get an animal, kill it, sprinkle the blood around, cut the dead animal into pieces, and burn it for a “sweet savor unto the Lord.”The Christian god apparently loves to order people to do his bloody wetwork for him, on both man and beast.
Re 2. “My God doesn’t tell me to sacrifice thousands of people for him.”:
On that scale, god is apparently willing to kill thousands by himself. Repeatedly. In Exodus 32:35, god wasn’t satisfied with the slaughter of the 3000, so he killed some more people with a plague. What a murderous bastard.
Re 3. “My God doesn’t tell me to be terrified of him.” :
WTF? The Christian god is all about terror and fear, throughout the bible, both through actions and instructions. One example of many: god sent lions to devour the foreigners in Samaria because “they feared not the Lord.” and there are frequent demands to fear god throughout both testaments
So what god are you talking about? Surely not the murderous Christian one.
March 6th, 2010 at 1:37 pm
Beautiful. I don’t care what all you people say- it is very hard for a christian to feel so close to God- and she isn’t in a christian family. In one of the videos, she said something to the effect of “I didn’t know who he was. I asked him his name and he said I AM. So I started calling him God.” You can hear the Truth in her voice.
It was natural for this three year old to call this wonderful “orb of light, purity, big strong father, and his eyes are just beautiful” God. Most people never feel close to their god- whether it’s the christian God to the Egyptian gods- and she has a face-to-face connection with Him.
and another point. Brian, My God doesn’t tell me to kill Jews. My God doesn’t tell me to sacrifice thousands of people for him. My God doesn’t tell me to be terrified of him. My God doesn’t tell me that works get you into heaven. My God tells me “I want a relationship with you. Please. Just come closer to me and i will lift you up.”
Just a thought.
And George- you forever be silent- it’s a beautiful poem and it doesn’t have to mean anything. don’t be afraid of words on a page.
February 13th, 2010 at 11:44 am
patrick, forever be silent.
February 12th, 2010 at 11:25 pm
When you know,
you know,
and the very minute
you want to tell
someone
you know,
it is the very minute
you must become
silent
and let someone else
tell everyone you know.
This is how wisdom
is gained.
Those people with the wisdom
and the patience
to share that wisdom
with those who need it,
at a precise moment,
are truly wise.
Then you,
as a wise person,
must sit and watch
everyone else
struggle along their path
to find their own wisdom,
and for you
to remain wise,
you must be silent,
yet reassuring.
patrick “GB” harrison
January 30th, 2010 at 6:40 pm
Could be real, but if so, unimpressive. Skilled but not talented. Lots of airbrush work. It’s 70s fantasy greeting card art.
The religious aspect is Christian-New Age feelgood stuff, images of Jesus and heaven according to the dominant culture’s paradigm of white entitlement, deservedness and privilege. God, if there is one, is much more than this.
Child visionary artists exist, like Sulamith Wulfing, she started having visions and drawing them at 5, then went to art school, made a career of it. Her work is unique and could be seen as inspired, her religious subjects are truly otherworldly, even stark and frightening. Impressive even if you don’t believe in God.
Lots of people have visions who are not crazy or freakish. Unfortunately sometimes people capitalize on it when they find out.
But many truly gifted child artists, authors etc. never get the attention Akiane has gotten thanks to her publicist and parents.
Plus she looks the part — the white blue-eyed blond angel girl. If she were Hispanic or black or Asian, or if she were unattractive, would she be believed or even noticed?
(Why doesn’t her Jesus have a hooked nose like real Semitic people do?)
Akiane reminds me of Minou Drouet. Wrote OK but not great poetry beginning age 7 or 8; her mom’s “genius” publicity machine ate her life. People suspected her mom wrote her poems. At 9 she wrote “They keep on and on at me with their questions. I wish I were dead.” Give Akiane Minou’s test; lock her in a room alone with her materials and have her produce something. Minou wrote 3 poems this way.
Minou couldn’t hide her loathing of the process; Akiane can act all dewy-eyed before the public — it must be tough to maintain. Again, her looks really help.
Even if she donates to charities, most use the majority of donations to support themselves and pay for overhead costs. Probably her parents are bankrolling it in a trust fund for her (which is what I would do, but I’d be honest about it).
I hope she’ll speak out and tell the truth someday, if she isn’t imprisoned by her own industry. Until then I’ll reserve judgment on the authenticity, but the religious part is just window dressing. I wish her luck.
January 11th, 2010 at 8:27 pm
Hi there ! Thank for posting.
December 30th, 2009 at 9:44 pm
Come see me nude on Facebook
http://www.facebook.com/people/Carol-Reese/1803184038
December 30th, 2009 at 9:40 pm
My shit tastes like peanut butter. I eat it every morning.
December 30th, 2009 at 7:45 pm
I’m a snobby stupid greasy sleazy Christian like every other one. carry on carry on carry on deluding ourselves.
December 30th, 2009 at 3:34 pm
Some of the people writing here are pretentious, snobby, with delusions of self-importance and intelligence. Those phony people couldn’t write squat without plagiarizing from books. Those lame brains can’t spell or punctuate or capitalize…yet they continue to write things they perceive as so very intelligent. They are just a bunch of egotistical dim bulbs who aren’t bright enough to enlighten anyone, let alone influence anyone. You know who you are, you phonies. Your anger, bitterness, envy, hate, and much more comes through with clarity. I don’t have time to read your unwise rhetoric. I accidentally came upon this site and, rest assured, I will not return. Carry on, Christians. Let those fools carry on with their folly. You can’t save them from themselves.
December 29th, 2009 at 4:36 pm
Is there any side effect to fasting to build muscle?
There’s two tu to your tutu too.
December 29th, 2009 at 12:41 pm
Is there any side effects to building muscle to fast?
December 27th, 2009 at 2:52 am
Good God, she’s annoying…
December 14th, 2009 at 8:02 pm
This hyrocket person that keeps posting rambling stuff that is off topic must be mentally deficient. He keeps coming in with posts that make no sense. His posts get in the way of discussions. Maybe we should ask the site host to block him.
On a related note, I guess mental deficiency is standard among religious folk. Lack of reasoning skills is pretty much a requirement for believing the jesus crap that the christian ones suck up.
December 14th, 2009 at 6:36 pm
lol MarcDLS, “Additionally, if you don’t step on one cockroach it will multiply.”
thanks for letting us know about your pest problems.
Scott, i agree! come on Marc, stepping on roaches won’t solve your problem, man.
MW you need to put aside your traditions and look at the bigger picture, Jesus is the light and the truth. seek Him through His word and see.
December 13th, 2009 at 10:02 pm
Re: Scott
Munch a penis
Any who places them self in the public spotlight do so with full knowledge they will receive attention. They cannot choose nor should be expected to receive any special conditions as to preclude them from said attention. Additionally, if you don’t step on one cockroach it will multiply.
In summation:
Munch a penis
December 13th, 2009 at 4:55 am
Akiane is one of the most gifted painters and poets in the whole earth. She is also one of the most humble and loving people you will ever meet. Her wisdom is way beyond her years. It is foolish and very arrogant to say anything negative or hateful towards her, as she is a child feeding the poor in other nations thru her paintings and works. And as for each of you who find it somehow your job to criticize or play the skeptic, what is the point of that, it benefits no one. You would be much better off taking that time to ask God to help you enter into the destiny He has made you for just as Akiane is fulfilling her destiny in painting and helping others. May God bless you all richly with His great love and amazing peace and joy.
December 9th, 2009 at 8:23 pm
RE: Katelyn
As I have explained before the failure of your world view is that while you can justify the spreading of beliefs based in ignorance with “doing what is best in their conscience?to do”[sic], so I can just as rightly justify the criticism of such foolishness with doing what is best in their conscience. That being, deriding and ridiculing false beliefs and ignorance.
Once again, the lack of absolute morals is another indication that your God cannot exist as you believe it to.
P.S. - *spit*/”White Jesus”
December 7th, 2009 at 5:53 pm
Fascinating.
One thing I agree with you on is that priests are perverts.
December 7th, 2009 at 9:22 am
Maybe you don’t want to be jumping into bed with Stan so quickly D. He’s probably another Ted Haggard
http://religiousfreaks.com/?p=336
…camera pans to show D licking Stan’s lollipop, and then Ted Haggard jumps in and reams little D up the ass.
Those fundie retards like Stan will ruin you, D, if your priests didn’t get into you first.
ROFL
and Stan, you still suck shit.
December 6th, 2009 at 10:37 pm
Yeah, Stan, you really suck lollipops.
Don’t worry. True, this is an athiest based site, but there are also plenty of regularly posting Christians to back you up(considering you are a believer).
Dead man on a stick? I don’t like it, but I feel nonchalant toward that kind of thing now.
Guess i’ve been around Korgan too long.
December 6th, 2009 at 9:33 pm
Uh, Stan, steamed much? Get a grip and calm down. Wrong forum, dude…
This is Religious Freaks, religiousfreaks.com, where we make fun of freak losers like you and your stupid sky fairy beliefs.
Your post belongs on “republican losers who can’t come to grips with losing the last election and can’t stop whining .com”. Here on RF, we just laugh at losers like you. Face it. You lost. Get with the times.
No, America was not founded on Christian ethics. That has been debated elsewhere here. Basically, the founding fathers were primarily deists. Your dead guy on a stick had little to do with our national ethic, no matter how much wackos like you try to spin the story otherwise. There are better bases for morals than evil Christianity anyway.
And Stan, you suck.
December 6th, 2009 at 5:41 pm
I suppose the same ones that can’t find or understand faith in the Judeo/Christian ethic can find a distorted faith in “racism” or “liberal politics”, or in the man caused global warming myth, just to name a few.
“Racism”, because as often as the word is used, it has no meaning. That’s because there is only one race of mankind. The difference between black skin and white skin is no more important genetically than the difference between brown eyes and blue eyes. So, there is no different “race”; most Anthropologists and Geneticists will tell you that.
Liberal politics are based on groups, usually perceiving themselves as victims. If I may speak in the vernacular, those groups are “Cluster Sucks” of fools with fragmented personas. That means it takes more than one of them to have a backbone. The founding fathers understood this and designed the Constitution to protect individuals from tyranny by the masses, which is still tyranny no matter how you frame it. The Constitution is based on individual rights, not group rights; and it protects each of us from the government and by masses of fools. “Progressive” is Orwellian “Newspeak”. Also, groups are not “progressive”; they are regressive returns to the tribe and the Dark Ages. In addition, Democracy as liberals understand it is the same as 5 wolves and 2 sheep voting democratically about what will be for dinner.
America was founded on the Judeo/Christian ethic; which means that even if you don’t recognize the deity behind it, that you use that ethic for your own moral compass.
November 14th, 2009 at 12:32 am
I think it is unfair to pick on a minor. A child. just to express your bitterness toward religion, or those who’ve hurt you in the name of it.
We all have the right to our beliefs. Intelligence denotes the ability not to conform, and to disagree as well. I support the American right of freedom of choice of religion.
Support this choice in others.
But do not fault those who share their view of the truth.
As they are only doing what is best in their conscience?to do.
Remember, the things that make us most human is our respect of each other’s common dignity. This is the basest form of civilization compared to that of more animilistic societal models.
No one has the right to condemn another for exercising that choice. Jesus himself said didn’t he, “I did not come to condemn the world, but to save it.”
November 2nd, 2009 at 9:42 pm
indecisive?
good paintings . . .
but only 14 and ALL of this already?
pretty damn hard to believe
October 22nd, 2009 at 5:34 pm
Van Gogh did 14,347 paintings in his lifetime.
And u r a twit.
October 22nd, 2009 at 4:44 pm
Andie you said,”(though mine are digital so it doesn’t take as long as oil painting anyway)” what is type of digital tools are you using and the software you use for you painting? Do you have a place where we can see your work?
Do you know how many paintings Van Gogh did in his lifetime?
October 22nd, 2009 at 11:09 am
faaaake fake fake. I was within a couple feet of one of her originals once. if only my gag reflex had suddenly caused me to projectile vomit from the cheesiness of her subjects.
a lot of people don’t seem to know, but her mother is a painter as well. I’m sure that the mother painted most of her stuff, or guided her heavily throughout the process, or both. plus she says she spends 40-some hours on her paintings (maybe more), and that is an insanely long time to spend painting. when I shoot for realism in my own paintings, I get tired after 12 hours or so (though mine are digital so it doesn’t take as long as oil painting anyway), but if I spent another 28 hours nitpicking every single detail I could, mine would probably look just as realistic as hers. :p
October 12th, 2009 at 7:56 pm
yeah, Akiane, keep on painting that bearded white guy…
October 12th, 2009 at 2:05 pm
Akaine: Keep up the wonderful work! I have one of your paintings copy. of self portrait; I look at it everyday and it reminds me how wonderful and kind GOD is to those that truly believe in him.
Dont listen to those na sayers who Look but dont listen,
who read but dont understant, or who hear but dont stop to think.
Best wishes; Wayne
October 8th, 2009 at 4:54 am
I grew up a born-again christian never really buying into the story of the bible and around age 18, i became an atheist much to the dismay of my “spirit-filled” mother. over many years of deprogramming myself and not believing, i slowly began to ponder and educate myself on religions and spirituality. mother teresa said she loved all religions but was in love with catholicism. she believed that any way one could get closer to God was a good thing. I went to a liberal non denominational christian church this evening to discover the beautiful sight of people worshipping and praying. (i believe) God is in all of us, he is the universe..he is everything. there is no evil only the absense of God when in humans we chose to reject that spiritual part of ourself. atheists get angry and want people to wake up and stop deluding themselves.. BUT, if someone believes strongly in something that makes them a better person and the world a better place for it, is it so terrible? its only terrible when people try to push their views on everyone else. to share ideas and enlighten is one thing.. but atheists and religious people alike should never think their views or ideas are the RIGHT WAY. then you are no different than any fanatic. anyways..i have moments of clarity and spiritual connection with the universe but in no way do i ever confess to have the answers. nobody can really have the answers.. there is no proof that god exists or not. but the universe does exist.. and it is a greater power than just ourselves. so there is a higher intelligent power. akiane painted jesus amongst planets and stars. perhaps its her way of expressing what her soul already knows..that God is everything in the universe. :-)
October 8th, 2009 at 4:41 am
I thoroughly enjoy the debate on here and think its beautiful to share ideas. but not to hurl insults. religious/spiritual people and atheists alike, when you insult and become angry it only pushes people away from your point of view. just food for thought.
August 29th, 2009 at 9:32 pm
I think that Akiane did feel the Divine, she was young and easily susceptible to visions and dreams sent by the Life Energy that is the Divine, the energy flowing within us all. Since religion or “God” was never discussed in their house, she had absolutely no barriers when it came to feeling this energy. It spoke to her, and she told her parents. The reason why she thinks it is the Christian god that spoke to her is because her father is a recovering Catholic, and I’ll bet while she was talking about her visions, her parents assumed that the Christian god was what she was talking about. So she WAS influenced, in some way, by her parents. Had they been, say, Jewish, or Buddhist, or pagan, her artwork and faith would be completely different. She was touched by the divine, and her parents helped give it a name. That’s it. She is a blessed child.
August 23rd, 2009 at 7:22 pm
Oh, so sorry–now I see: he must be the product of “degenrated parents”, and he cannot make his own “conscioous choises” because he is “poomesmerized”. Forgive me, “Dr. Langdon”, your desperately ill mental status should have been apparent in your fixation on eating poop. But really…your view is SOOOOOOO twisted.
August 23rd, 2009 at 7:15 pm
Where did “Dr. Robert Langdon” study? A doctorate in what, exactly? Man, I know most doctors write sloppy, but can they not spell? Atheism 101 and grade-school foul-mouth garbage = doctor! Wow! Did you frame that $2 license? Physician, heal thyself!
August 10th, 2009 at 5:17 am
All of that is bullshit.Her father is rich craftsman and he buy painting of her’s and friends of him also purchased painting of her.
Consequently she is apocryphally-false created artist and all her artwork is bullshit and crap.She is capitalism figment and brat whose celebrate his own rich father liar.
Christianity of her is capitalism bullshit.
Na mom jeziku ta mala je veliko govon koje proslavlja lazni kapitalizam ona je umjetni stvorena izmisljotina svog bogatog oca kapitaliste i njegovih bogatih prijatelja.
badly hello from my fucking country Croatia!
July 29th, 2009 at 10:12 am
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Langdon
July 27th, 2009 at 2:39 am
Asshole who is calling hiumslef mark, would you be so kind to tell me how the shit tastes that your parents like giving to you so much?
I mean it is your choice pof course, but as long as normla people do not eat shit, we would like to hear from you the taste of shit.
That’s it, really asshole. Thanks in andvance.
July 26th, 2009 at 1:16 pm
One last note: The title of this post “inspired by God or just plain crazy” of course speaks volumes - aside from the intellectually lazy, overly simplistic use of the word “crazy,” (how confident would you be in a psychologist only went as far as to categorize things as either sane or crazy?) it sets up a false dilemma and prompts your mind to be limited to the multiple choice of either one of two possibilities suggested. Well folks, this isn’t a multiple choice test from school, it’s real life - and it’s not so black and white. Any fan of rational thinking who is also not psychologically naive should recognize this right away, and in spite of Akiane identifying herself as Christian it may very well be that she herself is not “that religious” in terms of the specific doctrines taught in Christianity. But hey, it provides a forum for trolls err, I mean people to talk about their pet peeves when it comes to religion, even if it’s not really the best example because religion happens to be involved indirectly - she is not a theologian is she?
If the issue was to be rationally addressed, it wouldn’t be nearly as involved and you could save yourself a lot of time. Of course, you don’t get to experience the personal drama and perhaps that’s what people really want. Hey here’s an idea for ya: Go create a “reality show” based on this theme and dumb down the masses some more while making money for yourself “doing what you love.”
July 26th, 2009 at 12:19 pm
By the way, I don’t understand the comment “her talent will never be disclosed” - is the good “doctor” paying any attention at all? She’s gotten a lot of press! CNN, Oprah - is this the authors idea of not being disclosed!?
And while the subject of her painting can be rationalized, when it comes to poetry (yes, did you pay attention to that part?) it necessarily reflects some degree of intellectual understanding since it makes use of language, and not just precising imaging. But I guess it has to be ignored in order to make the case of mental illness. Yes lets fit the facts in ones own view rather than consider all of it and let them speak for themselves. But I guess like it says for the title of this site: “Have faith in yourself” - never mind what the world at large presents!
July 26th, 2009 at 12:03 pm
I find it sad that people will jump to the conclusion that she was influenced by her parents just because that’s the only logical possibility in their view, (not to mention using weasel words like “freak”, this supposedly coming from some kind of doctor no less) whereas the Kramariks’ own report is quite different and you simply don’t know from direct interaction/first hand experience or seeing what their personal life is like.
While I understand and actually appreciate the need to deconstruct religious fanaticism, I think it is in fact a pathology to make such comments from a knee jerk reaction - which says more about the author than it does the situation. Frankly, in terms of psychological functioning it is probably the same dynamic as religious fanaticism - just in the form of would-be debunkers rather than the kind that is covered in religious garb.
If anything, without supporting data this kind of comment underlines the use of the intellect to rationalize ones own opinions, but is of course ignorant at best and potentially just as fanatical - but it sounds reasonable!
July 18th, 2009 at 9:47 am
This poor girl is just another victim of degenrated parents.
It is obvious thta she was born as a normal and a very gifted child, infact her drownings show her masterclass paintings that were dpawn in a very young age.
What is wrong with her, is thta she is an obvious another victim of mesmerisation. Her parents are obviouslt freaks, and at the age of three (it was written above) was mesmerized by her parents, after th emesmerisation she become obviously schizophrenic, and instead of dedicating her natural talant to draw something really beautiful, her miond was polluted with religious trash.
If nobody would help this poomesmerized girl, her talant will never be disclosed and will eventually die with her.
Instead of beautiful paintings of her conscioous choises, her talant was kidnapped and hijaked by religious freaks in ordrer to waste it to useless paintings about nothing but bullshit.
July 17th, 2009 at 8:49 pm
The truth is this young lady is an extended arm of God and therefore,she’s a complex supernatural being that is purely beyond mere human analysis.
July 1st, 2009 at 9:27 am
SANE MIND IN SANE BODY IS
RATIO THINK IN LOGIC MIND
LOGIC MIND IN RATIO BODY
LOGIC SHOWS YOU THE RATIONALITY
RATIONALITY SHOWS YOU THE TRUTH
IN SCIENCE WE TRUST BY CONSCIOUS RATIONALITY
IN GOD WE BELIVE BY UNCONSCIOUS ABSURDITY
IN TRUTH WE TRUST BY CONSCIOUS RATIONALITY
IN LIES WE BELIEVE BY UNCONSCIOUS ABSURDITY
CONSCIOUSNESS IS MENTAL RATIONALITY
UNCONSCIOUSNESS IS MENTAL ABSURDITY
FREE TO THINK IS FREE TO CHOSE
FREE TO CHOSE IS FREE TO LOVE
FREE TO LOVE IS FREE TO FIGHT
FREE TO FIGHT IS FREE TO LIVE
FREE TO THINK IS FREE TO LIVE
CONSCIOUS PEOPLE ARE ABLE TO THINK FREE AND EVOLUTE THEMSELVES
CONSCIOUS PEOPLE ARE ABLE TO THINK FREE AND TAKE PROPER ACTIONS
FREE COUPLING IS NATURAL EVOLUTION TROUGH NATURAL SELECTION
NORMAL PEOPLE SELECT THE RIGHT PARTNER AND EVOLUTE FORWARD
ALFA + VITA = Y2K – CONSCIOUS FULL FREE REAL LIFE
ALFA + OMEGA = IOI – UNCONSCIOUSNESS TILL DEATH
VITA + OMEGA = IOI – UNCONSCIOUSNESS TILL DEATH
July 1st, 2009 at 9:11 am
Erica, regarding your post 332, reason in fact is sufficient to show that the Christian god is fiction. The claims of Christianity, such as of an omni-benevolent, omnipotent god, and many other claims, are demonstrably false. That you are unable to follow the reasoning is indicative not of a limitation of that reasoning, but of your own limitations.
Furthermore, that something is understood does not have to detract from the beauty of it. Denial of that understanding when it clearly exists, however, is simply dishonest.
Religion is ridiculous.
July 1st, 2009 at 9:01 am
Matt, I appreciate your concern for me but that is actually not the case.
However, what is the case is that sexual abuse and other malfeasance by the power holders of religion is sadly very common. That’s just one more evil of religion, as seen often in Christian sects such as catholicism and mormonism.
Religion is for the ignorant, the weak, the gullible, and the stupid, and for those who would take advantage of them.
July 1st, 2009 at 4:19 am
sounds like Korgan was molested by a priest….?
June 19th, 2009 at 5:46 pm
To me this girl and her story are examples of faith overcoming logic. God can’t be reasoned out - I have tried to apply logic to the mystery all my life. Then I realized that people created logic, but God created faith, and there is no way to understand the whole picture. It makes no sense. That there are roses makes no sense. Beauty and love cannot be parsed out in logical terms.
June 11th, 2009 at 4:00 pm
It’s my opinion that Akiane was influenced somehow at an early age by religious ideals, if even in a small way. I also think that “God” is the only way she can describe what she sees or experiences to herself or others. If you look at her art, it becomes less “religious”, and more “spiritual” as she ages. She even says she doesn’t fully understand her visions. I think as she ages, she’ll understand even more for herself, and may even lose the religious symbolism as time goes on. I don’t believe in “God”. I believe we are all God, and life itself and all matter is God. God IS as we are. It’s all the same. One thing is for sure; She’s a lovely young lady with an enviable view into our universe. What a wonderful insight to have!
June 11th, 2009 at 1:47 pm
Ally, your absurd Christian spew continues. (You should wear a bib.) So, we’ll just have to pull you back to the aspects of your book of horrors bible that you are so conveniently ignoring. Here are some of the “sweet” things that your god-myth provides guidance for you to do, or is claimed to do itself:
(and have you sacrificed any animals or people as burnt offerings lately?)
Genesis:
# God repeats his intention to kill “every living substance … from off the face of the earth.” But why does God kill all the innocent animals? What had they done to deserve his wrath? It seems God never gets his fill of tormenting animals. 7:4
# God drowns everything that breathes air. From newborn babies to koala bears — all creatures great and small, the Lord God drowned them all. 7:21-23
# God sends a plague on the Pharaoh and his household because the Pharaoh believed Abram’s lie. 12:17
# God tells Abram to kill some animals for him. The needless slaughter makes God feel better. 15:9-10
Exodus:
# God gives instructions for killing and burning animals. He says that if we will make such “burnt offerings,” he will bless us for it. What kind of mind would be pleased by the killing and burning of innocent animals? 20:24 (actually this animal sacrifice is just one more example of Christian borrowing from pre-Christian myths. Christianity isn’t even original!!)
# A child who hits or curses his parents must be executed. 21:15, 17
“Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live.” Thousands of innocent women have suffered excruciating deaths because of this verse. 22:18
# If you make God angry enough, he will kill you and your family with his own sword. 22:24
# “The firstborn of thy sons thou shalt give unto me.” (As a burnt offering?) 22:29
# God promises to “send his fear before the Israelites” and to kill everyone that they encounter when they enter the promised land. 23:27
# Moses has some animals killed and their dead bodies burned for God. Then he sprinkles their blood on the altar and on the people. This makes God happy. 24:5-8
# Get some animals, kill them, chop up their bodies, wave body parts in the air, burn the carcasses, and sprinkle the blood all around — in precisely the way God tells you. It may well make you sick, but it makes God feel good. 29:11-37
# Have your killed and offered your bullock for a sin offering today? How about the two lambs you are supposed to offer each day? 29:36-39
Religion is ridiculous.
June 11th, 2009 at 1:12 pm
Allycrap alert! Now, here we have Ally spewing on, in her latest BULLSHIT, about “evil spirits”. So, Ally, answer BRIEFLY for once the same questions that you keep dodging. First of all, how is it that your omnipotent “god”, purported creator of all, manages to be unable to defeat these evil spirits? And how is it that its “perfect” creations are susceptible to such “evil spirits”.
Your lengthy spewing and idiocy continues, but it is easily dealt with.
So, again, your “god” of your Christian myths is purportedly all-powerful and benevolent. Yet you also claim that a devil known as “Satan” coexists in parallel with your god of your myths as the source of evil. It is absurd that an omnipotent creature, such as your god-myth is claimed to be, cannot simply do away with this devil without humans having to presently suffer for it (such as in your Adam and Eve fiction and other bible tall tales).
Religion is for the ignorant, the gullible, and the stupid, and for those who would profit from them.
June 11th, 2009 at 11:57 am
Anonfox, as long as a person is alive there is hope, even for the atheists with their DISBELIEVING selves :)
Amazingly, some of my favorite pastors WERE atheists (see, so now they’re EX fools :D) and they’re great and they put fresh perspectives on eternal principles :] However, one must NOT put FAITH in mere humans even if they’re great pastors. One must test what pastors say and do by the word of God. If one keeps looking at what others do then one increases the risk of losing out on salvation themselves. If they’re (the pastors, that is) abiding in God, great, but if they try to lead a person away from truth then it should be “see ya!”
Another thing with atheists and even back sliders, they keep looking at religionists as an EXCUSE to disbelief God but they don’t look at all the evil atheists do and did and other back sliders too, so that they would not be atheists or back sliders anymore. (Atheists should just say “We’re CONFUSED!!! “). It just exposes their motives that’s all. They’re scoffing at God and religion so that they can walk after their own LUSTS. I admit some people who are atheists did suffer tremendously at the hands of PROFESSED followers of God but even Jesus had a Judas in the midst and most of His fellow church members had hateful, murderous intentions toward Him.
The point is, there are evil spirits telling people what to do and people tend to listen to them more often than not. The bible says all these things WILL come to pass; weeping may endure for a night but JOY COMETH in the morning (for those who abide with God i.e.). Even the topic that these threads are SUPPOSED to be discussing; about Akiane whose paintings are “inspired” by God; how does one know if it’s from God or the devil huh? One has to TEST Akiane’s beliefs by the word of God.
I recently read something about one of those beatles selling their soul to the devil for “Fame”. Well I guess the devil collected payment (and he collected early, before that beatle could find God probably) because the devil inspired someone to kill that beatle. There’s NO winning being on Korgan’s spiritual boss’ side! :b
If the bible is RIGHTLY followed, then people would love God with all their heart, mind and soul and they would love their neighbor as themselves :]
Friend, we tend to look at the negative aspects to things instead of the positive. For instance, you’re alive; you woke up this morning, you have some type of health cuz if you were really badly off you probably wouldn’t be on the computer :], you have talents; you’re an artist. Hey, if you’re complaining, give your talent to me and I’ll use it to glorify God! :D
I wish i had your talent but i don’t, however I KNOW God loves me even if i can’t draw or do certain things and He will take care of whatever difficulties that may come my way :].
I did see an artist using her talents for God though, and i must say i’m impressed! There’s this show that shows here:- http://www.3abntv.org/player.cfm (just click “view full screen” IF you’re curious); http://www.3abntv.org/schedule.cfm ,on Monday nights called “The Radical Prayer”. The artist on that show draws a picture within 25 minutes or so with a whole audience watching and the host talking; very nice i must say.
I said all of that to say this, maybe your time is not YET and PLEASE don’t give up.
Anonfox, you seem to be a nice person and I WISH YOU WELL. There is usually a silver lining at the end of every cloud and I hope you find yours.
June 11th, 2009 at 11:32 am
Anonfox, I hope you’re feeling better than you did when you had said you’re feeling down. I know life can get depressing at times but “Atheism” is a foolhardy way to go! And, don’t pay any attention to Korgan !!!!!!
Granted, Korgan has a nice sense of humor but if you listen to him that surely will be SPIRITUAL SUICIDE! Besides, I still THINK some mean person terrified Korgan with God and religion; so now he’s basically rocking back and forth in a corner scared of God :’(
Korgan is like a mad bull in an arena running around saying “I must debunk” and it seems that he spends a lot of time reading the foolishness on those web sites that are dedicated to leading people away from God and the bible. Yeah, a lot of atheists are cool and some seem to be cool, even those atheists on that web site that Korgan frequents seem to be bright and talented and funny but they’re FOOLS (and N.B. I didn’t call them fools, God’s word says they are! :D
I mean, I’m a sinner just like them and everybody else, but atheists up the ante (of losing out on eternal life) by saying there is no God. I think they SAY that but they don’t actually believe that).
Anonfox my friend, Korgan’s 322 post has it all wrong and the only reason why atheists don’t understand is because they don’t wanna. I don’t know about your Christian experience but based on what you wrote, you misinterpreted the bible and the bible is so EXCITING !!! You can see God’s love and mercy all over the bible; even in the OT. Of course you can also see His justice too and I had questions that I have had clarified. I still have lots of questions but God has been so faithful and when you talk to God and read the bible (and for me, go to church also) you understand His love more and more. Faith COMES by hearing and hearing by the WORD of God. So Anonfox, if you don’t like bible passages you’re putting yourself at an extreme disadvantage.
June 3rd, 2009 at 12:32 am
Re to post 314 (Ally)
Thanks for trying to cheer me up, but Bible passages won’t work. Like I said in my previous post (310) I used to be Christian until certain circumstances made me change my ways. Korgan’s 322 post explains one of my reasons for change.
May 22nd, 2009 at 9:23 am
Korgan, I agree very much with your 322 post! I Couldn’t have said it better myself.
May 21st, 2009 at 11:37 pm
God apparently lied to her and told her that Jesus was a Caucasian white man and not a dark skinned Jew.
What an azzhole!
She might have money to survive (for now, for awhile), but she will be so messed up by all this that she will never have a decent life.
Especially when some jackass seriously Svengali’s her sweet little over-protected, under-educated azz at a very young age and ruins her for life.
What a waste!
May 21st, 2009 at 11:27 pm
And to bring back to light yet another Christian absurdity, one of so many that Ally is persistently avoiding:
Your “god” of your Christian myths is purportedly all-powerful and benevolent. Yet you also claim that a devil known as “Satan” coexists in parallel with your god of your myths as the source of evil. It is absurd that an omnipotent creature, such as your god-myth is claimed to be, cannot simply do away with this devil without humans having to presently suffer for it (such as in your Adam and Eve fiction and other bible tall tales).
Religion is ridiculous.
May 21st, 2009 at 9:01 pm
Ally, your absurd Christian spew continues. (You should wear a bib.) So, we’ll just have to pull you back to the aspects of your book of horrors bible that you are so conveniently ignoring. Here are some of the “sweet” things that your god-myth provides guidance for you to do or does itself. Fine comforting fairy tales that you would bother a dying person with, aren’t they:
(and have you sacrificed any animals or people as burnt offerings lately?)
Genesis:
# God repeats his intention to kill “every living substance … from off the face of the earth.” But why does God kill all the innocent animals? What had they done to deserve his wrath? It seems God never gets his fill of tormenting animals. 7:4
# God drowns everything that breathes air. From newborn babies to koala bears — all creatures great and small, the Lord God drowned them all. 7:21-23
# God sends a plague on the Pharaoh and his household because the Pharaoh believed Abram’s lie. 12:17
# God tells Abram to kill some animals for him. The needless slaughter makes God feel better. 15:9-10
Exodus:
# God gives instructions for killing and burning animals. He says that if we will make such “burnt offerings,” he will bless us for it. What kind of mind would be pleased by the killing and burning of innocent animals? 20:24 (actually this animal sacrifice is just one more example of Christian borrowing from pre-Christian myths. Christianity isn’t even original!!)
# A child who hits or curses his parents must be executed. 21:15, 17
“Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live.” Thousands of innocent women have suffered excruciating deaths because of this verse. 22:18
# If you make God angry enough, he will kill you and your family with his own sword. 22:24
# “The firstborn of thy sons thou shalt give unto me.” (As a burnt offering?) 22:29
# God promises to “send his fear before the Israelites” and to kill everyone that they encounter when they enter the promised land. 23:27
# Moses has some animals killed and their dead bodies burned for God. Then he sprinkles their blood on the altar and on the people. This makes God happy. 24:5-8
# Get some animals, kill them, chop up their bodies, wave body parts in the air, burn the carcasses, and sprinkle the blood all around — in precisely the way God tells you. It may well make you sick, but it makes God feel good. 29:11-37
# Have your killed and offered your bullock for a sin offering today? How about the two lambs you are supposed to offer each day? 29:36-39
Religion is a disease of the mind. Inoculate against it with reason.
May 21st, 2009 at 7:48 pm
jag said :- “I have had to physically throw Christians out of the terminal ward where they sneak into unasked. I have been bitten, spat upon, clawed, hit with a bible and verbally abused by these loving Christians.” …
:O For real? People do get that obnoxious? Hmmmm, i’m learning something new but then i shouldn’t be surprised because the bible says these sorta things did happen and will happen. But yeah, people are NOT supposed to intrude where they are NOT invited (God doesn’t even do that, so who is a mere human do do so)
jag said:-” Their last minute sales pitches are so full of brimstone and hellfire that it is no longer bordering abusive but is actual threats. ”
That’s horrible!!! I have been around terminally ill people and i have never seen that. People who do that sorta thing did not get it from God or the bible. If they are truly concerned about the eternal destiny of an individual they could pray for the person and let the Holy Sprit do His job on working on the individual’s heart. Hey! the bible says that believer’s are to be fisher’s of men but believers aren’t supposed to clean the fish, God is supposed to do that [I'm paraphrasing like crazy here!:) ]
So yeah they could have prayed silently for the patient and leave well alone.
jag said :- “But back to your question, same way as any other people, by being there, by being supportive, aiding where possible”
Awwwww, that is sweet. But what do you SAY to someone who is dying? They’re gonna die and they know it and the atheist knows it. I mean, Korgan told me in one post already that i am nothing special, that i’m basically nothing, a product of evolution. What exactly does an atheist SAY to someone who is going through soooooo much turmoil, , i mean have you seen lately with the bad economy (and with people putting their FAITH in material things)that people and families are killing themselves!?They have no hope!
You know jag, i actually heard testimonies from former atheists and i must say they were quite interesting :)
jag, the only reason why atheists have compassion is because God’s spirit is still striving with men (generic term). Or, maybe they don’t mean it and this could be same for a Christian too; maybe they’re doing it to look good for others and not necessarily because they care.The bible says that the hearts of humans are deceitful and desperately wicked and only God, (generally it’s through the Word) exposes it. [see Jeremiah 17:9]
Well jag, for the Christian, we know that this life on earth is but a speck compared to eternity and once someone dies believing in and loving Jesus, that person would only have a dirt nap and will be resurrected when Jesus returns. If the person is ill we are there for them and if they WANT prayer, we pray for them but it seems to me that atheism promotes - if you are sick or dying oh well too bad for you, you know survival of the fittest? I’m sorry, i just don’t understand how one can be an atheist. Please don’t cite the SINS of Christians because humans do not set the standard for what’s right or wrong, God does and Christians who did and continue to do really horrible things while professing to be followers of Christ ARE gonna face Christ in the Judgment!
Anyway, here’s a story of a “MIRACLE” that happened during the civil war. I wonder what atheists would have done in that situation? and for those of you who are gonna ask why didn’t God rescue everybody? Ask Him! :) The believer KNOWS God can RESURRECT people.
http://www.wtv-zone.com/Mary/ANDERSONVILLEMIRACLES.HTML
PS Who does an atheist call if they are really scared do they say “Big bang help me?!”
May 21st, 2009 at 7:37 am
I wonder how you would do it? God is here, have a bite?
Am very snarky about that as I have had to physically throw christians out of the terminal ward where they sneak into unasked. I have been bitten, spat upon, clawed, hit with a bible and verbally abused by these loving christians. All while protecting the privacy of people, who never asked them there in the first place. I got scars to show which are to me comparable to medals.
It is not like patients could not get priests of their religion or even different religion to visit them and many do call for one at some point or another but the soul hunting freelancers really get on my nerves.
They disturb people who are dying and for most parts at ease with their fate. Their last minute sales pitches are so full of brimstone and hellfire that it is no longer bordering abusive but is actual threats.
It causes undue stress to the patients specially when it is unasked, unwarranted and to my opinion ghoulish to the extreme. At times it really is a shame that I do not believe in bible and find an excuse to go biblical on them. And all that is only from the voluntary work, I shudder to think how much the regular personnel must battle with these inconsiderate louts who are the only true christians around.
But back to your question, same way as any other people, by being there, by being supportive, aiding where possible. It does not require anything special, you know. Caring is actually better way to help than offering platitudes.
Your question in itself could be construed as a symptom. If you cannot encourage people without external guidelines, then you lack empathy. If you lack empathy, well, then bible is just the thing for you.
May 20th, 2009 at 6:47 pm
Regarding post 317, Ally, yet again you present the absurdities of your religion. So, we will have to present again a repeatedly-stated Christian absurdity of yours (one of many) that you have thus far been unable to present a coherent (or even concise) response to:
Your “god” of your Christian myths is purportedly all-powerful and benevolent. Yet you also claim (yet again) that a devil known as “Satan” coexists in parallel with your god of your myths as the source of evil. It is absurd that an omnipotent creature, such as your god-myth is claimed to be, cannot simply do away with this devil without humans having to presently suffer for it (such as in your Adam and Eve fiction and other bible tall tales).
Your god is obviously a man-made myth, nothing more. Get used to it, get past your silly Christian sky fairy tale, and stop your nonsense spewing. Your persistent posts laden with basic fallacies (this latest time, ad hominen)also get really tiresome.
Religion is for the ignorant, the gullible, and the stupid, and for those who would profit from them.
May 20th, 2009 at 6:37 pm
Hello. The man who has nothing to boast of but his illustrious ancestry is like the potato - the best part under ground. Help me! Looking for sites on: Wall clock. I found only this - http://turbo-tax.biz/. Proven consulting, content writing and linking seo services. I started writing my beginner guide to wordpress seo a while back, and have since done a load of posts on the subject, an article in the search marketing. Waiting for a reply :rolleyes:, Nathalie from Cambodia.
May 20th, 2009 at 4:44 pm
Re: Post 315
You know, that Korgan is a real “encouraging” person <—- That’s sarcasm BTW. I am curious now, how does an atheist give encouragement to someone who is depressed, really ill, in dire straits or at death’s door? Who does an atheist call if they are really scared do they say “Big bang help me?!”
Korgan? you are giving the attributes of your spiritual boss (the devil), to God! God is wonderful and He loves you even though you are really mischievous ;)
Theme of the ENTIRE bible is summed up in these 2 verses John 3:16 ; Romans 6:23
PS jag? you are a mischievous sorta fellow too, but poor Korgan is S-C-A-R-E-D.
May 18th, 2009 at 1:16 pm
Hypothesis;
hyrocket = Ally
May 18th, 2009 at 9:47 am
No, Ally, you can’t get away with that “god is love” bullshit here, and what you have presented is misleading rather than “straight talk”. As already noted, the Christian god of the Christian myths is a horrid, murderous, sexist, and vengeful being, and fortunately a fictional one. As Jagannath has already pointed out, your god-myth is dominantly hateful and punishing, not loving. Furthermore, the bible that you keep quoting is a self-contradictory collection of fairy tales, many of them borrowed from prior man-made religions. Christianity isn’t even original.
Just to cite a few examples of the nastiness of your god of your myths:
Genesis:
# God repeats his intention to kill “every living substance … from off the face of the earth.” But why does God kill all the innocent animals? What had they done to deserve his wrath? It seems God never gets his fill of tormenting animals. 7:4
# God drowns everything that breathes air. From newborn babies to koala bears — all creatures great and small, the Lord God drowned them all. 7:21-23
# God sends a plague on the Pharaoh and his household because the Pharaoh believed Abram’s lie. 12:17
# God tells Abram to kill some animals for him. The needless slaughter makes God feel better. 15:9-10
Exodus:
# God gives instructions for killing and burning animals. He says that if we will make such “burnt offerings,” he will bless us for it. What kind of mind would be pleased by the killing and burning of innocent animals? 20:24 (actually this animal sacrifice is just one more example of Christian borrowing from pre-Christian myths. Christianity isn’t even original!!)
# A child who hits or curses his parents must be executed. 21:15, 17
“Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live.” Thousands of innocent women have suffered excruciating deaths because of this verse. 22:18
# If you make God angry enough, he will kill you and your family with his own sword. 22:24
# “The firstborn of thy sons thou shalt give unto me.” (As a burnt offering?) 22:29
# God promises to “send his fear before the Israelites” and to kill everyone that they encounter when they enter the promised land. 23:27
# Moses has some animals killed and their dead bodies burned for God. Then he sprinkles their blood on the altar and on the people. This makes God happy. 24:5-8
# Get some animals, kill them, chop up their bodies, wave body parts in the air, burn the carcasses, and sprinkle the blood all around — in precisely the way God tells you. It may well make you sick, but it makes God feel good. 29:11-37
# Have your killed and offered your bullock for a sin offering today? How about the two lambs you are supposed to offer each day? 29:36-39
Religion is a disease of the mind. Inoculate against it with reason.
May 17th, 2009 at 8:57 pm
AnonFox said “I feel very down …”
Re : Post 310.
Oh friend please do not get discouraged, God loves you more than you love yourself. You are unique, one of a kind with no one else like you in the universe. YOU are “SPECIAL” to God (Isa. 43:1,4,7,21; 13:12; Ex. 33:12).
Jesus gave His life for you. He wouldn’t give His life for a nobody. You have immense value in His sight! (Gal. 2:20)
Even your …, inadequacies and deficiencies do NOT deter His love. All things ultimately work out for your good (Rom. 8:28, 31-37).
God has a plan for your life (Ps.37:23; Jer. 1:5).
AS YOU PUT YOUR LIFE INTO HIS HANDS, HE WILL ENABLE YOU TO FULFILL YOUR TRUE POTENTIAL (Prov. 3:5-6; Ps.1:1-3)
Friend, please pay attention to the following texts :)
Proverbs 3:5-6
5Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.
6In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths.
——————————————————————————–
Friend? I’m going to give you some straight talk right now OK?
Look at this passages :-
James 1:2-4 (King James Version)
2My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations;
3Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience.
4But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing.
Hebrews 12:6
For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
God has to try us my friend; i mean look at Judas, he was only following Jesus for the “goodies”. He didn’t LOVE Jesus and you know where that went. God is not Santa! (BTW Santa is actually Satan transposed and apparently Santa is given all the attributes of the Holy Spirit).
Look! God gave Hitler incredible talents; Hitler was brilliant, an excellent orator and we all know what Hitler used those God given talents to do :(
God does have a plan for you my friend and His ultimate goal is to save you for ETERNITY!!!! God KNOWS your NEEDS and He will take care of them but you have to make sure your motives are correct and NOT selfish :)
Christ does not want churchians, He wants CHRISTIANS!!!! meaning, He wants people who take on the name Christian to be like Him and have a personal relationship with Him :) He came in the flesh to show us how. Those people who plotted His murder in the past were church goers but they were slanderers and murderers etc. Church didn’t mean salvation, salvation is a free gift we get through faith and then the relationship between the individual and God GROWS until the individual wants to please God completely:).
God bless you friend and the price that was paid for YOU is “inestimable”.
May 15th, 2009 at 6:48 pm
What I find the most amusing with some of the supportive commentary, is the presupposition of the target of support is actually reading this site.
It makes one consider a short analysis of the these comments. How many supportive comments are also written by religious people?
Has the concept of ever present eavesdropper made people to assume a comparable effect with their words? That she hears your words without actually ever reading this site?
And are those same people aware of the detrimental effect of a prayer to those who are aware of people praying for them?
Which could be also described as a quantum effect where the mere act of support alters the end result from zero effect to some level of negativity.
Also, on assumption that her skill is not hers but from god, what value there is for her then? According that reasoning christianity is composed of people who are lacking in both skills and morals without a god.
May 15th, 2009 at 5:14 pm
Mary Deruntz, your post is nonsense, and you are misleading Akiane:
It is not nasty, but rather, to the overall benefit of humanity, to point out the evils and absurdities of Christian beliefs. After all the evils of the Christian crusades and inquisitions, and all the ills that Christian doctrine has visited on humanity even to the present day, it is Christianity itself that is nasty, not criticism of Christianity.
You should review post 309 as to the fairness of your “god” of your foolish beliefs, in view of your own claimed lack of a “gift”.
Religion is ridiculous.
May 15th, 2009 at 5:06 pm
Akiane, your work is stunningly beautiful. Please don’t listen to the nasty words that some people have to say. You obviously have been given a wonderful gift from God, one that I truly wish that I could experience just once in my life. God Bless you and thank you for following God’s inspiration in your life.
May 15th, 2009 at 10:25 am
Wow, I never knew God could be so darn cruel…
I myself am an artist since I could hold a pencil, I’ve been drawing all my life and I suffer for my art so it can be recognized. But along comes this kid who God chooses to shower in a bunch of talents, make her famous and rich without any freakn’ effort!! I mean, come on, she plays the piano, writes poetry, draws, paints, etc…..Nice move GOD! That’s why I stopped hoping in God and going to church a long time ago, I even almost converted to athiesm (but didn’t due to occurences that have happened to me). Why couldn’t God spare me just a pinch for my talent? Am I THAT worthless?
I used to pray when I was little but YEARS have past and I’m suffering more then ever with my art, life, everything. God doesn’t care, it seems…Therefore I stopped praying and going to church. My beliefs have changed greatly over the years, I’ve had my own visions (but I wont talk about them since they are not important cuz ya know, I’m not THAT kid) and still I believe there is a God…just not like many of you think…
Well, I’ll stop here since I’m obviously not important and no one will even bother to read this.
I’ve had a bunch of rotten years, specially these past 4 months, so I’m sorry if I sound rude but you would too if you where going through what I am.
I feel very down and do not talk to me if you’re just going to state stupid comments like: “zomg u n00b G0d will get uu!!11″
May 15th, 2009 at 10:12 am
You come upon your beliefs too readily and without examination, and furthermore, your belief in the Christian god is not well founded. You don’t know exactly what the historical Christ person looked like, and so statements about the resemblances of Akiane’s art with that person are similarly not well founded. Now consider the following:
Why is it that the god of Christian myth, being purportedly omnipotent and omni-benevolent, would give such gifts of talent so non-uniformly across the human population? (We are rather obviously not all born with fairly or nearly equal talents and attributes, nor in equal circumstances.)
Therefore, your creator god is unfair and cruel, or, more simply, does not exist with the characteristics that are claimed for it. Note that standard arguments in this regard, that we are being tested in our present lives, are invalid because a “god”, being omniscient, would know the future and would not need testing to know the future outcome.
Religion is a disease of the mind. Inoculate against it with reason.
May 15th, 2009 at 9:31 am
Hello I watch this show on the young girl and all I could think about is if people dont stop all the mean things thats going on. that this show to me say that god lead this young girl and that we should start being better to each other .that God is speaking thru this young girl.I beleave he speakes to her and I beleave in him he has alway been there for me and .I havent been a saint we all do something somewhere in our lives something were not proud of and he will for give if you just ask him.please just listen to the signs he is real
May 13th, 2009 at 3:42 pm
I am so impressed by her talents, and yes, I believed that she is blessed by God. The painting titled PRINCE OF PEACE is nearly perfect, only the color of His eyes is a bit off. I had a vision of Jesus twice, while I was praying on behalf of my brother, who was in trouble several years back, and Jesus appeared in my room. The first time was before my brother went to court, a more comfortin & reassuring vision. In that vision, Jesus smiled and reached out his left hand to me as to “follow me” gesture, I stared at the hole in the middle of his hand, but felt too scared to reach out to Him. I froze. The second vision was after, a more somber vision. My brother won the case, by the way.
Jesus eye colors that I saw was more gray, with specks of green and golden brown. I was transfixed, and shocked. Transfixed enough to noticed the color of His eyes, and His even, strong set of white teeth. When He smiled, there were 2 laugh lines on each side of his face, if you ever see Keith Urban smiles,(no, I’m not his fan), it looks liket that. Jesus didn’t have gap tooth, though.
Shocked, because He appeared to someone like me, who is NOT a religious person, but rather more of a spiritual person. Christianity was not my first religion. I was raised in a Buddism religion, but somehow I felt no connection whatsoever with this religion. When my family moved to the United States, they are still praticing Buddhism, but I was converted to Christianity in 1996 because of a personal experience BEFORE the vision of Jesus. I don’t go to church often, but pray daily at home in the morning & at night.
When my brother was in trouble, I was advised by an accquaintance to pray Psalm 91 for my brother 7 times a day, for 7 days with a sincere heart, and I did, then left everything up to God. I didn’t, however, expect Jesus to appear to me, but He did, and for that, I knew that there’re reasons why he appeared.
I believed that we are praying to the same God, but through WHOM is purely our own choice & comfortability. I wish, however, that I would be able to purchase the original of THE PRINCE OF PEACE some day.
May 8th, 2009 at 12:58 am
Ok am I missing something here??? I’m like this girls mother not religious at all…but why would an omnipotent being need to guide a little girl to help others through paintings? Dont you have this limitless power to do anything you want without anyones help? I mean this girls paintings are absolutely breathtaking dont get me wrong…but why this little girl why not guide someone less fortunate in a country that doesnt have buyers that are picking up these paintings for $300K and more, and spending the money on a million dollar house…religion is so much fun…Saw her and 4 others on a TLC documentary called “5 brilliant mind of our time” or something like that that mentioned the house and selling price of some of her paintings.
March 7th, 2009 at 6:42 pm
This girl has drawn a picture at 9 years old of jesus that profesional adult artists would have a hard time competeing with. she has an intamacy with God that most church going people don’t have, and you are going to question whether there is a God or not? 9 year olds don’t paint like that on there own and obviously no one taught her she believes in God and no human told her. How blind do you have to be to ask questions like that. let the poor say I am rich let the weak say I am strong because of what the lord has done for us. someone compared her with a woman who killed her children. She is nothing like that she’s helping the poor and showing the world pictures of heaven. mother tereasa is a woman who did more with no money then rich people did with lots of money. this girl has done more with no education then people with lots of education. these are the charateristics of people touched by God. People keep looking for miracles but they don’t even notice one when they see it. The very fact that you are breathing right now is a miracle the very fact that the sun rises every morning is a miracle from God and you don’t see it. It’s a miracle because it doesnt have to happen but it does, because there is a God making it happen.
January 26th, 2009 at 1:20 pm
Why are we offended or amazed by this? Are we not all human and therefore have as much potential as the next to pursue our desires and be happy? Do we not all have the ability to fill some purpose or place in this life? Can we not simply be grateful for and inspired by a symbol of love, beauty, and grandeur no matter what our situation in life or preconception thereof? The only person we have to judge is ourself, because that is the determinant of the way we view life and people around us.
Religion and belief divides when used like a sword,
but unites with an open hand and understanding word.
We all have a hand in the life we hold sway.
Will you raise in defiance or put sword away?
There is need for swords defending freedom and life,
but then and only then and not in prideful strife.
There are so many things a hand in mind can do.
Wether for good or ill, is entirely up to you.
Thank you Akiane.
January 22nd, 2009 at 1:30 pm
Very interesting indeed. Although not one to make quick judgements, I will be so bold as to say that this child is a very gifted person who loves God and is doing his work,not a freak. In adress to MarcDLS,the above listed controversial poster,I would like to say,that anyone who would go off on a tangent about racism-which I failed to see- is a very weak-minded person indeed. Why and where did you get racism out of this child’s art? It would seem to me that MarcDLS has a racism issue,which you be best posted on an Anti-Racism blog. And as for the postee which used such foul language…my,how advanced your vocabulary is…but a rather primitive response! One last note-yes,in the Bible it is clearly seen that Jesus-God incarnate-was a Jew…which COULD be considered Caucasion,but is not really white OR black…so there. He reaches out to all people,regardless of color. If a child percieves Him as white,so what? By the same token,many Negro churches percieve Him as black.
January 12th, 2009 at 9:22 am
Is that really what you need to think to feel special? Why don’t you go try getting butt-hurt over something that has substance. Fact is, you are so self-loathing that you have to find insult in external mediums to feel as though you have some importance in life. Doesn’t matter what for, as long as it is something you associate yourself with strongly. You obviously associate yourself as a “white person” strongly and therefore show yourself to be the racist. Maybe you should think about yourself as a person first and a white person second? If I went over your head at all, let me know and I’ll try to use simpler language.
January 12th, 2009 at 6:02 am
Hey MarcDLS,
That’s what I’m trying to tell you u racist c-sucker. You friggen deal with it. White people aren’t the one’s saying sh-t. You and your racist f-ot friends are talking sh-t about us so you go friggen deal with it.
Started out your post all logical-like like you were trying to be smooth but couldn’t help your littel anti-white racist crap from floating out at the end could you. Typical. TYPICAL M.F.!
January 11th, 2009 at 3:17 pm
It seems the Christian God isn’t perfect enough to portray himself in a logical way. As for the white Jesus, that is just a stupid assumption. Jesus is portrayed as whatever the creator was raised to find as beautiful. No image is a true image because people are too susceptible to their own imaginings. Fact is there was a Jesus just as sure as their was a Buddha, but neither was divine.
Oh, and white people are just the result of isolation and mutation, deal with it. You aren’t special, you aren’t a chosen people, you’re just what happened to have happened.
January 11th, 2009 at 2:27 pm
Ahhh, there it is. The old familiar ‘there’s an extrememly talented white person. Let’s find some way to call her racist because we all know that’s the best way to really put down a white person and make everybody hate them and that’s exactly what we want because we’re anti-white racists who HATE to see such a brilliant white person’. It just amazes me how creative these anti-white racists are at finding a way to crow-bar in these racism accusations (which is basically what’s going on here with the ‘why is Jesus white in her painting’ remarks). It also amazes me at how shameless these people are. Apparently attacking a young white child is not off limits.
Well too bad! She’s super-talented and WHITE. Deal with it a-clowns!
January 7th, 2009 at 5:40 pm
No disrespect, but you say:
“It gets more bizarre when you discover that her mother is an Atheist and her father a recovering Catholic. Religion was never discussed in the house and the kids are all home schooled.”
And then you give us a link to a Christianity Today article. In the article, if you read it correctly it shows that her mother ‘WAS’ an Athiest and her father was a former Catholic who didn’t share in his family’s beliefs.
But, it also shows that the mother, and posibly the father (and her website definately shows her mother and father became Christians) came to faith in Christianity as a result of her 3 year old spiritual awakening and the amazing amount of Christian knowledge she knew about God and the world without being taught it by her parents.
Did you even read the Christianity Today Article you send us to? Or are you not a careful reader? Either way be more knowlegable about the subjects you cover and more observant of the source material you use, or don’t even publish it. Very sloppy.
December 29th, 2008 at 4:38 pm
I read a lot of skepticism about Akiane’s true intent. I can tell you that I first heard of this young talent more than two years ago.
I quickly checked her website back then and found the prices of the ART while expensive were not at ALL outlandish for fine art. In fact in the circle I was aware of, the ART was priced low even for the originals.
While the prices have gone way up, so have her abilities, name recognition, and notoriety. These things have occurred no doubt to help offset the immense costs associated with bringing about the change and help she is dedicated in pursuing.
If you believe in her calling, then you will have to believe in her cause. That cause comes with price tags that are steadily going up.
( SCAM? ) I hope not. I doubt that either parent or Akiane herself after going through this would tempt such a thing.
December 2nd, 2008 at 7:38 pm
Well, to those of you who have a problem with Jesus being “white,” I have something to say. The only reason she painted him like she did is because it says in The Bible that Jesus was middle-eastern. So he wasn’t white OR black. So stop freaking out…seriously. It’s just fact. No one should get upset by the idea. It’s not like he HAS to be your race. I’m white, but I’m not mad that Jesus wasn’t born as a white man. I saw some replies that talk about how “The little blonde girl’s God is white. How convenient.” Seriously, that’s immature. Grow up. I’m sure if he was born black, she would’ve painted him black. Let’s not be racist here, ppl…honestly, ‘the little blong girl’…that’s pretty rude. And btw, it says in The Bible that some people actually had visions sent by God. So it’s not very unlikely that she did, after all, have visions. And the reason why she is one of few people who actually get visions is because God has a plan for her, and in order to have her do what he has in store for her to do, he needs to give her a little nudge in the right direction. It’s not like he chooses favorites. The reason is simply that everything happens for a reason. And if you want to debate with me, or simply talk, my e-mail is bluepunk95@yahoo.com All comments and e-mails are greatly appreciated. Thanks.
October 17th, 2008 at 7:30 am
[...] have much idea why, but as off I got one link…. hope it will help you to know more about this. Akiane Kramarik–Inspired By God Or Just Plain Crazy? ? Religious Freaks __________________ Waterfall [...]
October 17th, 2008 at 3:31 am
[...] have much idea why, but as off I got one link…. hope it will help you to know more about this. Akiane Kramarik–Inspired By God Or Just Plain Crazy? ? Religious Freaks __________________ Waterfall [...]
April 16th, 2008 at 11:39 am
In the book that is written about Akiane by her mother, called “Akiane: Her Life, Her Art, Her Poetry,” plus in some other online articles, you can read how Akiane’s goal is to help poor people around the world, especially by helping the “garbage children” (as the orphans are called, because that is where they find their food) and building a free hospital, both in her parents’ native Lithuania. These are just two of the projects she has initiated. In situations like these, it does take the money of the wealthy to help those with no means. Thus, the price tags on the art. Additionally, in her own family’s story, they have had many times of absolute poverty, and her father nearly died because of working so hard under very poor health conditions, struggling with severe asthma. They bounced back financially for a year or two, when her mother started a home-based marketing business, only to lose it all again. And their journey is told with absolutely no sense of “Pity us, because we have fallen on hard times.” Instead, her mother writes how when they had financial success, they were actually the least happy. They spent time watching TV instead of with each other, and kind of drifted apart emotionally. I would encourage further research on Akiane and her family, to get the facts straight.
Also, there are paintings from artists around the world that depict Jesus being of various ethnicities. Chinese artist He Qi (you can google him) creates many icons showing Jesus and his disciples as Chinese. And, I’ve seen paintings of Jesus done by a Kenyan artist (I’m sorry, the name escapes me) that show Jesus and his disciples as black African men. I’ve seen others of Jesus as a Native American, or as a Hispanic/Latino man. Neither Jews nor Muslims are allowed, according to their religions, to create visual images of G-d (and I write that “G-d” respectfully, as Jews do, since they do not even want to try to write the name of “G-d”). Christianity is different because they believe that since Jesus was God as a human for a time, yet still all-knowing and all-loving, he can actually relate to every ethnicity, and every human. He is, in a sense, neither a specific ethnicity, but also all of them. Paintings by He Qi, and also Akiane, are not meant to be absolutely representational of what Jesus definitely looked like as a human on earth, but rather windows into understanding that Jesus can relate to us, whatever we look like.
April 16th, 2008 at 10:25 am
I think it’s easy to critize anything, no matter what a person believes. However, I think everyone would have to admit there is something special about this girl. I don’t think her poetry is neccessarily supposed to be understood. Think about it. In the Bible Jesus spoke in parables so that the real meaning would be hidden. Her poetry and paintings are the same way. It’s mysterious and the real meanings are hidden. This is so that the scoffer and cynical person dismiss it “weird”, but the people who really want to know about God and who He is would seek after the true meanings.
April 8th, 2008 at 9:21 pm
Boris, haven’t you figured out by now how usefull the social taboo on criticism on religion is to the churches and others using/exploiting religious beliefs?
I’m not one for conspiracy theories, but there’s a pretty clear sign here that those benefitting most from religion are those that don’t want is discussed. Even the people who wrote the bible had this figured out. Don’t have a rational conversation with a non-christian and leave him be if he doesn’t want to convert, no, stone him to death for rejecting God.
We’ve moved away from stoning, at least, in most of the world, by it’s still not-done to criticise religion.
April 7th, 2008 at 7:13 pm
justin demonstrates a common attitude among christians: as long as it “praises” jesus it can’t be bad. that’s why she can charge such outrageous prices for her paintings (very un-christian right? who cares). a while ago a born again christian told me that she knew how bad christian pop music was, but that didn’t matter cause it was “praising the lord”. just make it christ-themed and no questions will be asked.
April 7th, 2008 at 7:06 pm
“One true God!!!”
Finally, someone acknowledging our one true creator, Wolverine, with his adamantium claws of justice.
April 7th, 2008 at 6:34 pm
btw….it does not matter if you don’t believe in Jesus…He believes in you!!!
April 7th, 2008 at 6:29 pm
Jesus rocks! this little girl is an awesome daughter of the One true God!!! thank you, Father for my off the hook, too cool little sister!!!
April 5th, 2008 at 1:09 am
I too first heard about this several months ago when a fellow co-worker showed it to me (via the TINYURL link, which I believe no longer works?) …. the incredible talent of this young girl is undeniable (at least to me)… also the subject of her paintings appear to point to something divine. I was hooked; thought it was real, I still do. However, I was taken aback when I visited her website … the asking price for her paintings .. sure a workman (workgirl?) is worthy of their labor (hire) … but somehow, claiming her paintings are the result of spiritual inspiration, and then turning around and selling them (for a substantial price) seems to be out of step from something Jesus would do. I agree, with a comment left by another poster on here …. that would imply a very select few (rich?) would be able to enjoy this “revelation”. To me, its not much different, than a person claiming to receive a spiritual revelation from God, then asking $X of dollars in order for the rest of us to receive the “blessing” of that revelation … I dont recall anywhere in the Gospels or the entire Bible for that matter, where God’s Blessing(s) are to be purchased/acquired via monetary (steep?) means… fact is, Jesus strongly condemned such practices ….
One possibility to all this is that everything this young lady is saying is true (she is being genuine in how she received the inspiration for her paintings), but somehow her parents have gotten greedy and have quickly learned they could make a bundle off her paintings and hence have adulterated this girl’s original message/intent …
April 2nd, 2008 at 7:52 pm
Boris and Christina have hit the nail squarely on the head here. This smells like a scam up one side and down the other. And, yes, I am cynical, but you don’t have to be a cynic to question $1,000,000 a painting. Is she gifted? I’ll go ahead and believe that the “stages” photographs aren’t faked; she actually does paint these things, so sure she’s gifted. But I bet somewhere along the line, Mommy or Daddy figured out that they could get a heck of a lot more dough per canvas by putting a religous spin on it. It goes something like this: “Hmmmm. Nice painting of a lion. You say she’s eight?” “Yeah; and GOD told her to paint it.” “Whoa! Lemme get my checkbook!”
April 2nd, 2008 at 6:35 pm
just saw the webpage. does anyone really have any doubt this is just a for-profit scam? very shameless.
April 2nd, 2008 at 6:25 pm
She might be from God… but I have a question. According to her website, Akiane sells her original paintings for $50,000 - $1,000,000, and signed prints for $1,800-10,000. How much are her parents profiting from her work? Frankly I doubt the fact that she actually paints these. How could she possibly hope to share her visions with the world when only a small subset of very wealthy people will be able to purchase her paintings?
March 31st, 2008 at 9:41 pm
how do you know shaun? have you ever seen God?
March 30th, 2008 at 1:12 pm
Guess what.. She never saw Jesus. Cause he wouldn’t have looked like that hot white guy in the background. He would have looked like an Israeli/Iraqi/Iranian/etc.. In other words, he would have looked middle eastern. If that is a painting of Jesus, she is a liar, disillusioned or just doesn’t know what Jews look like.
March 2nd, 2008 at 12:31 am
I like her story about how she got her subject for Jesus. When you live a life of faith like that, expecting the impossible, it happens all the time. It’s actually really weird. My wife lives perpetually in a state like that, but I’m always the one needing convincing. I guess the way God works is totally irritating to some people, and perfect for others. There is a fuzzy uncertainty that permeates the whole Universe. I’m an agnostic, and I’m also a person who has absolutely put his trust in Jesus. The two are absolutely compatible. Agnostic: Don’t “know”. Truster of Jesus: Do trust.
March 1st, 2008 at 10:11 pm
In my humble opinion, “facts” have nothing whatsoever to do with Religious Belief or lack thereof. “Faith is believing in something when common sense tells you not to.” (From the Gospel according to Miracle on 34th Street) And this will be my final word on the subject…and whoever said women always have to have the last word never got into a conversation with a man!
March 1st, 2008 at 7:42 pm
Greetings again,, Bobbi Lee,
Should you ever meet a man truly showing an interest in your mind, I would, nevertheless,
heartily advise caution against making that an important part of your theological criteria.
And, so as not to give the wrong impression, healthy as I am today, any home run I may make is
most likely to be a metaphorical one. But I appreciate any cheering-on. I would certainly
count it the highest of praise to be thought of as “a Gentleman of good taste, flawless
judgement and rare discernment.â€
While I would agree with Mr. Holmes (and Mr. Spock), I believe it is possible to arrive at
solid theological/religious conclusions based on reasonable and sufficient, though
inexhaustive, evidence, and without resorting to a twisting of facts.
Having said that, as of tomorrow, I’ll be away for three weeks or so, now, enjoying a long-awaited
break.
March 1st, 2008 at 7:29 am
P.S. If ever i were to meet a man who was truly “interested in my mind” i would immediately become a firm believer in God! But what are the odds of that happening?
March 1st, 2008 at 7:27 am
Dear Mark,
Two of your remarks strike me immediately…except instead of strikes, they are Home Runs!
“First, let me commend you on your stylishly flambuoyant
power of literary expression!” and “Furthermore, I find myself more often drawn to those daughters of Eve gifted with physical and mental maturity, say, ten years and more, my senior. Therefore, in my view, much can be said for sixty-five year-old bodies and minds.” Obviously, You are a Gentleman of good taste, flawless judgement and rare discernment!
Fortunately, there is nothing wrong with my sixty-five-year-old Body whatsoever either…like your fifty-four-year-old Body, in fact it is still in fine working order and was capable of dancing for three hours to Golden Oldies Saturday night at a Birthday Bash!
It’s just that Men of my own age are often interested in Younger Women: a sad fact of life. You are quite atypical. Therein lies the frustration, but i suppose it’s a biological imperative: the one thing God told everybody to DO, while telling them continually what NOT to do! And Younger is certainly More Fertile in most cases.
i know you’re not dwelling on Sex, and i am, but i long ago, unlike Marilyn in “Gentleman Prefer Blondes,” gave up trying to find a Man who was interested in my Mind, whether that Mind be sixteen or sixty-five (sixty-six in April).
Back to Religion: i am still thinking the whole thing over, and i don’t believe i will ever come to any solid conclusions. As Sherlock Holmes said (and Mr. Spock would agree) “It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts.” Which is why i don’t subscribe to any Religion except the Religion of Do Right, as written in the Book of Aretha Franklin!
February 29th, 2008 at 6:50 pm
Geetings Bobbi Lee Williams,
First, let me commend you on your stylishly flambuoyant
power of literary expression! Secondly, I submit that my question is only indirectly (and inadvertently)related to sex. And although I am in agreement with Sid and yourself that the subject is somewhat unrelated to the discussions in this forum, and perhaps I should not have got myself into it here, I believe, nevertheless, a brief reply is warranted.
I am fifty-four, and while I don’t think any of us actually ever leaves our first childhood behind altogether, I believe that sixty-five is far too young to be entering into second childhood. To my mind, by the way, one can have peanut butter sandwiches at any age.
Personally, I would say (with intended humility) that in terms of physical condition, I am blessed more so now than I was at sixteen or at twenty-five, and so, in addition to my standing self-image, I value my present level of maturity in all respects. Furthermore, I find myself more often drawn to those daughters of Eve gifted with physical and mental maturity, say, ten years and more, my senior. Therefore, in my view, much can be said for sixty-five year-old bodies and minds.
February 28th, 2008 at 9:22 pm
Hello, Mark, Before i comment on your question, i would be interested to know how old you are. Meanwhile, there is no doubt in my mind as to which is more frustrating for me. But as a woman, i’m no expert. It’s well understood that Men know much more about Women than Women do about themselves! As proof of this i offer my ex-husband’s book, “Everything Men Really Know About Women” as preferred reading for those of the Male Persuasion. (Not to give away the ending, but all the pages are blank!) So i’ll leave it up to the Men to decide which is more difficult for a Woman. But i’ll give you a little hint: there is no such thing as a “sixty-five-year-old MIND.” Sixty-five-year-old Brain, yes. But not mind. My MIND is actually closer to 16 than it is to 25, and getting younger all the time…..you can call it second childhood, or you can call it a delightful gift from God or whoever (by the way, how did this discussion go from Religion to Sexual Frustration? Although come to think about it, they are very closely connected!) but for some reason, i am getting more open-minded, over the top, and hot-to-trot as the years go by…and oh my gosh oh golly…if i had had the information and the imagination and the freedom in my mind at 25 that i have now–Wooooof!!!
February 26th, 2008 at 8:14 pm
Hello Sid,
I’ll get that quesion on to Janet.
And now here’s an article you might find profitable, or at least interesting.
http://www.leaderu.com/orgs/probe/docs/schaeffer.html
February 26th, 2008 at 11:07 am
Hello MAPK L,
That would be good, but I don’t think gasmonso participates in TITMT. The author of that series, Janet would likely welcome your suggestion. Send it to her at The Art of Getting By.
February 26th, 2008 at 10:59 am
It occurs to me that Bobbi Lee Williams raises an interesting question, perhaps, worthy of TITMT: Which would be more (or less) frustrating: to be a twenty-five year-old inhabiting a sixy-five year-old body, or a sixty-five year-old in a twenty-five year-old body?
February 26th, 2008 at 10:56 am
It occurs to me that Bobbi Lee Williams raises an interesting question worthy of TITMT: Which would be more (or less) frustrating: to be a twenty-five year-old inhabiting a sixy-five year-old body, or a sixty-five year-old in a twenty-five year-old body?
February 25th, 2008 at 4:24 pm
Hello Dan Phillips
1.“[N]o proof exists of anything divine; only reasonable evidence for the probability, of it.â€
2.”‘A fool says in his heart there is no God.’”
3.”One can simply look at all creation or nature for you and see his (God’s)handy work.”
By my reckoning, two, not three, is logically the odd one out. And, while one may say the second has its place, I find it used somewhat freely throughout these discussions, and indeed, altogether irrelevantly here.
I take the existence of the universe, in itself, as evidence for, but not proof of, a divine creator. You and I would otherwise (theistically) appear to be in general agreement.
February 22nd, 2008 at 6:05 pm
Dear Sid, If i’m FRUSTRATED, it has nothing to do with you or this cyber-discussion, but more to do with being a Hot 25 year-old trapped in a 65-year old Body! But i should know better than to start in with these Internet Postings, because they don’t involve direct communication and as such are fraught with misunderstandings and “failure to communicate.”
All of this started for me because i wanted to observe that i think Akiane and her family are for real, and that there is Plenty of Precedent for Prodigies (how’s that for some classy alliteration?) in life. i also cannot get all worked up and indignant because she says God inspires her. Like someone pointed out on this site, Hitler claimed the same thing. And so does Mike Huckabee. So what? So whatever! i have to look at what is being said in His Holy Name (Warning: Irony Zone!) and more importantly, what is being DONE!
On the other hand, i have been wrong about so many things in my time that i could be wrong about this! What a concept! i could be wrong! But if i don’t allow for myself to be Mistaken in a given situation, then i’m not free, but i’m as narrow-minded and potentially fanatical as those whom i am expressing dismay at!
(Now don’t tell me a preposition is a bad thing to end a sentence with, or i will repeat Churchill’s words about the subject: “Ending a sentence with a preposition is something up with which I will not put!!!”)
i was tickled, by the way, with this comment of yours: “But consider this. I know some very zealous Chicago Bulls and Bears fans. Under definition 4, this makes the Bulls one of their religions and Bears another. Aside from the awkwardness of one individual having multiple religions, I think most religious (in the 1st definition’s sense) people would object to their beliefs being equated with extreme fandom.”
You know something, i don’t give a Flying F*** what “most religious people” would object to! (Actually, that’s not true–i’m just messing around–but i don’t give a Rat’s A** about the beliefs that Zealots use to justify killing, stoning, raping and pillaging, whether they are Golden Calf worshippers or Neo-Conservatives.)
However, i know one Freed Catholic whose Belief in the Goodness of Notre Dame (the Football Team, not the Virgin or the Cathedral) amounts to Religion and is equal only in strength to His OTHER Religion: conviction that Stanford (Especially the Band) and USC are the Anti-Christ. And as a Cal grad and fan, i couldn’t agree with him more! Oh, and my friend does have at least one other religion, but i’m not going to go there–not here!!
Now that you know i went to Cal (Class of 64), you understand all the bad language, what my poor Dad once said was the only thing i learned there! And i am afraid he was right! That and the ability to win every limbo contest i ever entered….
By the way, i lied about my skepticism: i do believe in the Flying Spaghetti Monster, about whom i just recently was enlightened by some young Heathens who dwell in my home. Being a Star Trek Fan, i find him, her or it especially appealing because i am reminded of the Horta, the Crawling Pizza Monster of whom i am extremely fond. i will leave you with one last word: Boycott the Altered ST:TOS DVDs with their Evil CGIs. Tacky props are what allowed the Original Star Trek Crew to come up with Sci Fi/Fantasy that depended upon excellent writing, great drama, fine acting, deep philosophy and dynamite chemistry between Living Characters whose relationships were the basis of the show…but don’t get me started on that! Live long and prosper, from Bobbi Lee…
February 22nd, 2008 at 10:59 am
Hello again Bobbi Lee Williams,
You seem frustrated in your comment. I didn’t mean to frustrate you. I, too, am anti-fanatic. I like the reasons you give for the diction your choose the use. Unfortunately, such diction is abrasive to most non-believer’s eyes. Your explanation does much to alleviate that. Yet I don’t understand how that prevents the appearance of pretension. Perhaps this was meant to imply that I seem pretentious?
So your points are that:
1. Everyone believes in something(s)
2. That’s great as long as no one harms anyone else as a result
3. Fanaticism and excessive zeal can harm others, so we should resist it
Sure, I can go along with that, but I still think it is a mistake to call certain beliefs religious. Though it is technically correct to use it on secular beliefs that are held with zeal, it is too often confused with the other definitions that involve worship of the supernatural and other such irrationality.
February 22nd, 2008 at 10:33 am
Hello, Sid, Gosh a-mighty! i don’t seem to be making myself clear here! i ain’t confusin’ DIFFERENT belief with LACK of belief…exactamundo th’opposite! i’m confusin’ BELIEF with BELIEF! Once again, i BELIEVE that everyone is searching for SOMETHING TO BELIEVE IN. It starts the second we’re conceived, when we BELIEVE in the Fallopian Tube, then the Placenta, the Umbilical Cord, and the Womb…and it goes on from there. THOSE FOLKS WHO SAY THEY DON’T BELIEVE IN ANYTHING BELIEVE IN SOMETHING, AND WHAT THEY BELIEVE IN IS THEIR NON-BELIEF.
But I’m Easy, and i say, Believe Whatever Floats Your Boat, or Not, as the case may be, so long as you don’t use it as an excuse to hurt, maim, destroy, oppress and generly be mean to other folks! Moreover, OF COURSE when i say Secular Religion, i mean Zeal…that’s inherent in the 4th definition of Religion…somethin’ you totally believe in and to which you devote great energy and large amounts of time…sometimes to the exclusion of all else and sometimes with a Zeal that leads to FANATICISM, and that’s the only F-Word that really rattles my cage! Guess y’all could say i am Fanatically Anti-Fanaticsm!
And i’m toying with the Diction i’m using here not to diss anyone, but to a) have some fun b) acknowledge my roots–many of my family spoke that way in varying degrees and i’m proud of them! and to c) stop MYSELF (and maybe some other folks) from sounding and feeling so gosh-darn, ding-binged, dad-blasted, gol-dern PRETENTIOUS!!!
As Porkypine says to Albert Alligator in an episode of Pogo, “Don’t take life so serious, Son, it ain’t nowise permanent.” What we need to take seriously is not our own raging debates about Angels and Pinheads, but the sufferings of our Fellow and Sister Beings, and how to help relieve them.
i can’t help but think of Omar the Tentmaker (as translated by Fitzgerald) “Myself when young did eagerly frequent/Doctor and Saint, and heard great Argument/About it and about but evermore/Came out by the same Door as in i went.”
P.S. i don’t ascribe to any religion and i do not BELIEVE IN GOD OR GODDESS OR ASSORTED DEITIES OR THE UNIVERSE OR THE FORCE OR KARMA OR PAST LIVES, in the way most folks mean it when they say they do. However, i don’t know for sure (for which you may cheerfully label me an Agnostic if that’ll pep you up some) and i venture to say nobody does. They think they do, but really they haven’t a clue…and neither do i……but i would never attempt to talk someone out of their belief…only to prevent harmful actions and succor the pitiful victims of those deeds…
February 22nd, 2008 at 9:50 am
Hello dan phillips,
What a strange thing to say. I don’t think I’ve ever met anyone who considers themselves smarter than Einstein.
Here’s a few choice Einstein quotes:
Of course he also said,
That is not what I’m doing. I’m quoting him in support of Deism, not atheism. Are you a Deist? If not, do you suppose yourself smarter than Einstein?
You can read more about Einstein and religion here. The short version is that he believed in a impersonal god, who set the universe in motion, but doesn’t intervene (aka no miracles). This puts his theological views much closer to Deism than any major religion.
He also believed that morals should not be derived from religion. Since you seem to think that we should agree with Einstien’s thoughts on God because of his superior intelligence, why do you go on to contradict him and claim that morality is dependent on being religious?
February 22nd, 2008 at 3:55 am
“Fact is more people have died to Atheists leaders then any other.”
“In the last century millions and millions of people died in Russia and China under communist governments…”
As I see it there is really no need to excuse on behalf of murderous non-believers. There are sick minds everywhere and when they get ultimate power by a worshipping population very bad things happens. Especially in modern countries with huge population like China and Russia.
That said there are some points I would like to mention:
1) The further back in history you go, the harder it will be to establish exactly how many people have died because of religion.
2) The killings by Stalin and Mao as a sign of atheism as a dangerous ideology stands and fall with the belief of those sick individuals. If they were in fact religious there is not much point in the argument.
Interestingly I have noticed that Stalin often referred to God when he spoke with Churchill according to Churchill himself and before the revolution Stalin was in fact to become a priest.
By the way here are some quotes by Adolf Hitler:
“Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator” (about the laws against jews)
“My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them..”
There you go Dan Phillips. According to your logik christianity is bad because how many people died worldwide because of Hitlers sick mind?
February 22nd, 2008 at 12:46 am
Two things:
1) I’m with Irish; I need to see numbers, please. Sure the commies in Russia and China killed millions. So have religions over the years. Who’s killed more? I need numbers there. But I will note that there is an extreme difference between the tyrannical forced athiesm of the so-called “communist” world and athiesm by personal choice. Those who have chosen athiesm have a lower representation in prison, for example.
2) I find it amusing when Christians of one denomination decry the other’s “abominations” whilst ignoring their own; and also ignore the fact that the various versions of the Bible have been interpreted in various ways (not to mention the lies they spread about each other). All Christian denominations have been involved in pogroms, persecution of minorities, and open warfare between each other and non-Christian religions. Yes, that means *your* chosen denomination, Mr. Phillips, even without me knowing what that one is, because they’ve *all* done it.
February 22nd, 2008 at 12:02 am
“Fact is more people have died to Atheists leaders then any other.Peoples killed in Communists in the Name of Atheism and Secularism…
In the last century millions and millions of people died in Russia and China under communist governments…”
Is that a fact? really? because I know for a fact it’s completely false. That is unless you have some evidence.
By the way, catholic = christian, it doesn’t matter how you try to rationalize it.
February 21st, 2008 at 11:24 pm
“The Christian faith is one that teaches peace and love like no other.â€
Tell that to the victims of the Spanish Inquisition.
”
You confuse yourself with catholics and christian fact is the catholic church takes what the church says as more important then the bible.The bible says one should you it to decide truth.True christian teaching says all have sinned and fallen short of God.That being good cannot ever save you from hell…
Jesus is the savior God who became man and died for our sins then roses again.
Fact is more people have died to Atheists leaders then any other.Peoples killed in Communists in the Name of Atheism and Secularism…
In the last century millions and millions of people died in Russia and China under communist governments…
February 21st, 2008 at 11:14 pm
“One can simply look at all creation or nature fro you and she his handy work.”
Sorry I type to fast sometimes :)
Should be One can simply look at all creation or nature for you and see his (God’s)handy work.
I would assume you think yourself smarter then Einstein.. For he often spoke of God and his creation . I guess Albert Einstein was less intelligent compared to you ?
February 21st, 2008 at 11:09 pm
“What I meant, and what I have said all along, is that, as far as I can see at least no proof exists of anything divine; only reasonable evidence for the probability, of it.”
A fool says in his heart there is no God.
One can simply look at all creation or nature fro you and she his handy work.
One fact a solar eclipse cannot be possible unless the moon is perfect place to line up perfect between the sun and the moon .
The idea of large masses causing space-time to be curved could be verified by observing the bending of light rays during a total eclipse and in November 1919, the British Royal Society announced that an expidition which had been launched while the war was still raging had observed a solar eclipse and verified Einstein’s predictions….
http://www.privilegedplanet.com/QandA.php
February 19th, 2008 at 7:36 pm
All clear.
February 19th, 2008 at 4:31 pm
Hello Snurp,
What I meant, and what I have said all along, is that, as far as I can see at least no proof exists of anything divine; only reasonable evidence for the probability, of it.
February 19th, 2008 at 2:45 pm
“And while I think I’ve essentially exhausted all I can say about Akiane, I would say that we mortals can judge claims of divine inspiration by little more than the greater good or harm that comes of them.”
Wait…did I read this wrong, or did you reduce proof of divine inspiration to a pragmatic principle? Are you referring to judging the truth of claims of divine inspiration or merely to their usefulness while saying that we can’t really say anything more as regards whether or not they are genuine? Because if you are claiming the first (I’ll assume you’re not), that’s…interesting.
February 19th, 2008 at 2:32 pm
I am well, thanks Sid, and looking forward to an upcoming three-week break, whereupon I believe I will be feeling all the better.
Since art, by its nature is giving, I think the poet I heard was wrong to count “stealing†from other atrists as proper usage in place of “borrowing.â€
And while I think I’ve essentially exhausted all I can say about Akiane, I would say that we mortals can judge claims of divine inspiration by little more than the greater good or harm that comes of them.
February 19th, 2008 at 12:51 pm
Hello again Bobbi Lee Williams,
Thanks for responding. Your comment helped clarify your meaning. I am not really questioning Akiane’s talent. I have neither the knowledge nor expertise to do so. I find the legitimacy of her work much less interesting as to whether her talent is divine in origin.
If the term ‘religion’ can be applied to secularism, then secularism has absolutely no meaning. Something cannot simultaneously be both religious and non-religious. It would be like claiming something is a cold hot, or a perfectly healthy pneumonia patient.
On the other hand, the definition of secularism is precluding the definition you gave (the 4th definition from the American Heritage Dictionary, though Merriam-Webster and others have similar ones). That definition reduces the word ‘religious’ to a synonym for ‘zealous’. In that sense of the word, I agree; ‘religious’ can be applied to secular pursuits and zeal is generally a bad thing.
But consider this. I know some very zealous Chicago Bulls and Bears fans. Under definition 4, this makes the Bulls one of their religions and Bears another. Aside from the awkwardness of one individual having multiple religions, I think most religious (in the 1st definition’s sense) people would object to their beliefs being equated with extreme fandom. (By the way, “Reaganomicsist” is a great word whether or not it existed before.)
Indeed, it is a mystery to all of us nonbelievers. Why is religion a nearly universal human experience? And why is this universal experience expressed in often mutually-exclusive ways? Why is it worth killing over? Etc. It’s what makes the topic so endlessly fascinating to myself. But don’t make the mistake of equating lack of belief with a different type of belief. I don’t believe in the Greek pantheon, but that lack of belief is not due to my “need to believe in Something”. The same applies to Christianity, Hinduism, etc.
Hey MAPK L,
I hope you are well. I agree completely with the later parts of your comment. Art often ’steals’ from other art. That doesn’t take away from the quality of the work. What I do object to is stealing from other artists and then claiming it came from God. “No it didn’t! It came from those other artists and yourself.”
February 18th, 2008 at 9:59 pm
Hello Sid,
I believe that all creative inspiration, while not immediately so, is ultimately of divine origin.
I once heard a poet criticize the euphemistic use of the “borrowing†of an idea by one writer from another. “The proper term,†she said, “is to steal, and that is all right.†I would agree that her “borrowing†is a poor euphemism if she meant that the borowing offers no return.
I would say, however, that, like that of Mozart or Shakespeare, all good art borrows something from some existing work, adapts it and incorporates it into a new thing as original as the first. Shakespeare’s “Hamlet†as a prime example, widely believed to be borrowed from thomas Kydd’s is surely a landmark in literary history, and not merely shameful plagiary of a non-extant play.
Indeed, all good art borrows something and then returns it with some added value. Human creativity invariably involves the shaping and re-shaping of inspired ideas.
February 18th, 2008 at 1:22 am
Hello, Sidfaiwu, A very good and interesting point about Mozart, although as i mentioned in my letter, i have personally been a tiny bit of a prodigy in my time and encountered many others among my family and friends, for whose genuine talent i can personally vouch. i am an eternal skeptic as well as an endless believer, and well understand that many prodigies of all ages are groomed, or coerced, or presented through trickery that enhances their “powers.” My feeling is that Akiane is a genunine phenomenon and a very unusual child. As for “secular religion,” to you it is a “meaningless oxymoron.” To me it is a paradox, especially since Atheism when practiced fanatically can be one of the most intense and unrelenting Religions of all. (By the way, i own a Dictionary too, and the 4th Definition of “Religion” is “A cause, principle or activity pursued with zeal or conscientious devotion.”) That goes for all of the “Isms”: Freudian, Marxist, Darwinist, Maoist, Reaganomicsist (Best look that up too, but i’ll bet it’s not a “Real” Word), and so on. At the end of the day (a resounding cliche, but it sounds so impressive!), to me this debate is not about the people who are writing in on this subject (although i admit i couldn’t resist responding to your message), but it is about the Endless Mystery of Humankind’s need to believe in Something, even if it is the fondly cherished delusion that we don’t believe in Anything…
February 17th, 2008 at 3:09 pm
I refer you to James Randy’s Million Dollar challenge.
http://www.randi.org/research/index.html
go and proof you can do this and earn a million dollars. Unless you do, i’ll call you a liar on this.
Well, if you’d rather live a lie then know the thruth, that’s all up to you. I think it’s rather sad though. The matrix has you Missy, and you’ve just take the blue pill
Meh, If I make a miscalculation in my work, a multi-million dollar building is going to come crashing down, potentially killing dozens if not hundreds of people. I never a second of sleep over it. (then again, I never lost sleep over anything)
February 17th, 2008 at 10:53 am
Hello Bobbi Lee Williams,
He was neither a freak nor a fraud. But there is a ton of mythology that has been built around Mozart. It is also well known that he didn’t write all of the works that are attributed to him. He also borrowed heavily from other composers before and of his time. Finally, he was downright compulsive about his compositions and constantly rewrote them. If his music was divine in origin, why would he have to 1) borrow from other composers and 2) rewrite his works?
secular:
1. of or pertaining to worldly things or to things that are not regarded as religious, spiritual, or sacred; temporal: secular interests.
2. not pertaining to or connected with religion (opposed to sacred): secular music.
3. (of education, a school, etc.) concerned with nonreligious subjects.
4. (of members of the clergy) not belonging to a religious order; not bound by monastic vows (opposed to regular).
What is a ’secular religion’ but a meaningless oxymoron?
February 16th, 2008 at 10:44 pm
One more thing:
How many of you creative artists can perform under pressure? I sure can’t! So the fact that Akiane has a hard time “getting into” her paintings while being watched/filmed means zilch! It actually credits her ability more than discredits it…
February 16th, 2008 at 9:59 pm
I think most people are missing the big picture. The way I see it, Akiane truly believes. She believes she communicates with God and acquires visions and messages from God (even IF she’s only been brain-washed to believe it). Her work has inspired and touched me like nothing in my life ever has. Who cares if her visions are only a reality in her own mind… they still make my heart tingle and my body fill with glowing love, and take me to a place I never knew existed. And most of all, they give me amazing hope. My life has become more peaceful, and I have become a happier and more complete person since I was introduced to Akiane’s work.
As for the resemblance of Jesus’ face to other artist’s paintings of him, maybe they all look alike because that’s what he really looks like! Akiane asked God to send her a model that resembled who she had seen in her dreams, because she wanted to paint him accurately, in the image He has chosen for Himself. The fact that she couldn’t recall every detail of Him from her dream(s) is normal. I’ve had a particular recurring dream since I was very young. The details of the faces in my dream are very clear while I’m dreaming, but always become hazy when I’m awake. There’s no easy explanation for it, it’s just the way it is. Can you recall every dimple and crevace on your own face without looking in a mirror, even after seeing it every day of your life?Akiane has nature to refer to to help her recall details of her other visions from God, but God’s not just walking around her house for her to refer to for painting the details of His hands and face (etc.).
Akiane said that there are more colors in Heaven than we’ve ever seen on earth. This is plausible because what we see on earth is limited to the abilities of the rods and cones in our eyes… I highly doubt we will have these limitations in Heaven. I think Akiane is trying to make a serious point… after all, this is her world, too. She has to live her life on this planet just like the rest of us. She’s just trying to open our eyes to the reality of it all, and help us to not take the planet/world/universe/each other and mostly God for granted.
Akiane preaches nothing but love.
Akiane shows nothing but love.
Akiane gives nothing but love.
Akiane isn’t pushing anything. We are lucky she is sharing what she has with us!
If this is a hoax, and Akiane isn’t really doing the painting herself, I really could care less. It is Akiane (and all of this) that has brought me to God and made me feel complete… hoax or not, I am still extrememly grateful. If a hoax is what it took to make me see the light, so be it… And if, in the end, the light is a hoax as well, believing in it has still made me a happier, healthier, more successful person.
Akiane said that she doesn’t communicate with God by speaking, but that it is done mentally. I have a very close relationship with my Mother and my two sisters. We speak to each other all the time… not face to face, not on the phone and not through the internet, but mentally. Seriously!!! We do, and we always have! If I think about one of them too hard, the phone will ring and it will be her. Guaranteed. It’s fail proof. So fail proof that sometimes I have to tell myself to quit thinking about them before they call me (if I’m too busy to talk on the phone… ). I have no doubt that Akiane communicates with God. “Speaking” can be done so many different ways… making noise with our mouths is only one of them.
I pray that Akiane continues her journey, no matter what. I pray that if this is a hoax, whoever the hoaxers are will continue the hoax even if they are found out, because I really do need this, whatever it is, in my life! There’s just something about them… the words, the paintings, AND Akiane…
Since I have discovered Akiane I have also found myself “speaking” with God, and guess what? He really listens, and communicates back, and He shows me the way… with whatever I’m doing. My own artistic abilities are pouring out (I really don’t have a clue where they came from), and although I am fully aware that it is happening through the hand of God himself, I don’t believe I could’ve gotten here without Akiane showing me the way. I know I’ve always had a Bible available for that, but it sat on my shelf until Akiane came along. Akiane is my Gatorade… when I feel dehydrated (mentally and/or spiritually) I grab Akiane’s books and the Bible, and I am rejuvinated!
I see Akiane as a modern-day tool that God gave us to lead us to Him. I’ve been inspired by many things in my life, but never like this. And as for the people who think her writing is “a bunch of mumble-jumble nonsense,” you just don’t understand it. It makes just as much sense as a foreign language does to — not you — but someone else who speaks it. I understand, and can relate to, most of the writings attributed to Akiane. If an adult is actually writing them (and not Akiane), the meaning is still the same, and still has a place in my life.
As for her mix of age-appropriate and non age-appropriate drawings and paintings, my work is the same. The art that I produce when I feel God flowing through me is light years ahead of the art I produce on my own. Besides, we mustn’t forget that Akiane IS a child, and so we should expect her to have childlike qualities mixed in with her “gifts.” And when I finish a project and hang it on the wall, I too cannot believe that I DID THAT. People ask me HOW I did that and I honestly don’t know, so I say what I believe: I didn’t do it, God did.
There. Mystery solved. :)
February 15th, 2008 at 9:40 pm
Once there was a little boy who composed music when he was very very young. He also had a thing about the presence of a divine force in his life. His name was Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart. Was he a fraud or a religious freak? i don’t think so! i have strong reservations about all religions, including the secular ones, and i don’t care for fanaticism. That goes for religious AND anti-religious fanaticism. i don’t care for dogma, no matter who is putting it out there. Dogma and the acts committed in its name are the scourge of this world, whether it’s Pol Pot killing political “sinners” or Nero killing Christians or Charlemagne massacring Pagans. We have also seen many Charlatans throughout History, of all kinds. But i believe that Akiane and her Family are the Real Deal. We all have our own talents and they manifest in different ways. There are extraordinary human beings in this world, and they can be judged only by their values, principles and acts…i feel that the Acts of Akiane and her Family are unselfish and compassionate. As for her talent, it is amazing, but by no means unprecedented! Strange that we instantly accept prodigies who are autistic savants, but have so much trouble believing in everyday people like Akiane who happen to have unusual abilities. i was perusing the Encyclopedia Britannica when i was 18 months old, just because i felt like it! (i loved the pictures of Birds and could identify all of them) Many of us have experienced the Prodigious in our own lives, and those of friends and family. Akiane is bringing beauty and hope into the world and like all great leaders and prophets, she will be the target of criticism and even anger. So sad, but so true. If there is a force capable of bestowing blessings in this universe, i hope it will continue to bless her and all those like her, who bring us their gifts and visions for Good and for Enlightenment.
February 9th, 2008 at 2:09 am
I have been a professional artist for ten years, starting at age 15. I’ve observed a tremendous mystique attached to artists. People think you either have it or you don’t. Truthfully even the best talent is disciplined with education, yet because so many believe artists are “touched”, not trained, many fail to question this girl’s abilities.
A co-worker brought up an article suggesting Akiane is a fraud. It is posted at the bottom and I highly recommend reading it. Here are observations of a professional artist:
1) There is no evidence she painted these pictures. Anyone can make brushstrokes on a painting. If Akiane is really painting everything, why the absence of significant brush strokes when filmed? Why is she just messing around in random areas? If you’re capable of holding a brush, you’re capable of doing that, too.
2) There is a complete lack of technical information when her work is discussed. There is reference to religious feelings and anecdotes, but she exhibits no concrete understanding of the art form. The religious hoopla is empty rhetoric, a smoke screen for poor comprehension of the technicalities of painting.
3) The face of Christ is no different from any other painting of Christ. If she truly has seen God, it is a wonder she can’t recall his face.
4) An adult could easily be doing these paintings. Especially an artist who can’t make money on his or her own, but can easily make a profit when the work is disguised as a child’s. It could even be the parents of that child.
5) I am immediately skeptical any time God is brought into business. Regardless of religious beliefs, it is sensible to believe that a spiritual entity would not be mercenary.
Akiane has stated, “Every time I finish a painting I hang it up and say wow. I really did this. But it wasn’t just me it was somebody else.†Maybe she really believes God’s hand is finishing her work. Children are easily manipulated. I wouldn’t condemn her as intentionally fooling anyone; regardless, people are being fooled.
It is obvious to me as a professional artist that she is not doing this work. This is an insult to real artists’ talent and to everyone else’s intelligence.
Read the article: http://www.kutv.com/content/news/specialreport/story.aspx?content_id=110D722E-A08E-4864-A01B-81C2368496F2&gsa=true
February 8th, 2008 at 1:03 pm
hey akiane … you realkly are an artist .. no just for painting …. but for understanding and not underestimatigng art … and guys … alkl the bad things your say about akiane are GELOUSY!!!!!! so just drop it
December 3rd, 2007 at 3:28 am
i agree Sam… I hope that we see the world as it really is; a temporal home.
December 2nd, 2007 at 12:48 am
“Take a look at any regular item inside your house; eg. a shirt, a hat, shoes, bed cover…..anything.”
So your saying because you can’t grasp how something was created it must have been created by a god? That argument has been brought up many a time (just like Pascal’s wager). It’s a horrible argument and a waste of bits. Also, if thats whats keeping you believing in your god you may wanna rethink some things…
December 2nd, 2007 at 12:16 am
As I was reading through these posted comments, I’m still astonished that we still have critics that are trying to disclaim the works of this little angel (not literal, but beautiful innocent girl). God has performed so many supernatural actions but we choose to disbelief in Him after all. When you dig deeper into science, it is very easy to fall back in believing in God, because more than the ordinary population, scientists get to find out about God’s signatures. I want to try something, and I want everyone who reads this to humor me.
Take a look at any regular item inside your house; eg. a shirt, a hat, shoes, bed cover…..anything. now think about this. If we took any of those items, and just left them in the right temperatures; thus, right right rainfall, just enough snow, and some wind……my point being if we left those item(s) under the perfect climate conditions, would we ever be able to end up with any of them?
The answer is, even if we left those items for trillion of years, we would never be able to come up with even the most minute creations that man has created. So how is it that we can believe that the whole entire world, and all the details (which is visible everywhere) can come out of nothing! There has to be intelligence behind everything that exists, and this is why people believe in higher powers, that are able to produce everything in this world as we know it.
I have chosen to be a Christian, because after researching about many religions, Christianity was the only one that ultimately made sense; both intelligently and spiritually. God will always try to draw humans to Himself, since this is why He created them, and the truth is, some people are going to fight it till the end. One thing is for sure; we are all born, we live, and then we are going to die…….if there is anything going on if we wake up from death, where would you wanna bank your soul?
My name is Sam K. and I hope that we see the world as it really is; a temporal home.
November 30th, 2007 at 11:30 am
Sorry, hyrocket, but that “andrew” isn’t your ex-mormon friend. I am.
I don’t really agree with what the other andrew says.
It is most definitely for us to decide if her vision is true. If some little girl says that she saw God in a vision and that I should believe her, then I am the one who must decide if her vision was true.
His idea — that it is true to her in her own reality and I should leave her alone with her version of truth — is quaint and affable. I might even agree if she wanted to be left alone. But she doesn’t want to be left alone. She wants to publish her art and tell me that I should believe her. By doing so, she is forcing me into action and the action I must take is to decide if her vision is true.
My decision: It isn’t true. She did not see God.
November 30th, 2007 at 2:17 am
I believe her… Andrew, my ex-mormon friend, i agree!
“Akiane claims to have met God when she was just 3.”
November 30th, 2007 at 2:11 am
her images are drawn from a stock of mental imagery. i.e. every time we see an image we store it in our subconscious memory. Her visions are whatever they are. . . dreams, out of body experience, heavenly vision . . . who knows?
But people see some thing totally new that we have no field of reference for, we use images that are stored in our subconscious in order to make sense of it. That doesn’t make her ‘visions’ untrue, thats not for us to decide, its simply a fact of psychology and the way we represent our experiences in images.
November 30th, 2007 at 2:03 am
“She’s not the freak, all you fools that have nothing better to do than argure about a nine year old with a paint brush, need to get a life. you are all lame and should die and burn in hell. F off.”
I’d say the person that posts an angry statement on a site he obviously doesn’t like probably needs a life more than anyone else here. By the way, thanks for just saying “F”, if you had used “Fuck” I would have been offended, of course that doesn’t really matter since you already told us all to go to hell.
November 30th, 2007 at 1:54 am
She’s not the freak, all you fools that have nothing better to do than argure about a nine year old with a paint brush, need to get a life. you are all lame and should die and burn in hell. F off.
Your Master
November 21st, 2007 at 3:11 am
“love, joy and regretfulness”
One of these three seem out of place…
“If you truly believe you will see, but don’t just look at the paintings with your eyes and see the colors of this world, look with your heart and your soul and you will see the color and care that was put in to this world and everything in it.”
This is the kind of bullshit that made me a manic depressive at age 12, everyone kept telling me “you just have to truly believe” I was convinced that i was doing something wrong or had somehow angered this god everyone was going on about.
By the way, it seems like your trying to give this girl credit for everything you think your god did, it’s just so confusing….
November 21st, 2007 at 2:18 am
Faith is the essence to believing, the lord does not have to be seen with eyes that commit sins but with eyes that there is love, joy and regretfulness. Eyes are the cunning, the deceitful and wilt away with time, while the heart is the all seeing and all believing.
If you truly believe you will see, but don’t just look at the paintings with your eyes and see the colors of this world, look with your heart and your soul and you will see the color and care that was put in to this world and everything in it.
November 13th, 2007 at 5:03 pm
“The Christian faith is one that teaches peace and love like no other.”
Tell that to the victims of the Spanish Inquisition.
November 13th, 2007 at 5:01 pm
“you have found proof that God DOES NOT EXIST!!!”
Burden of proof falls on you buddy.
“If you would like to disprove it, read the bible. It is the doctrine Christianity is based on. In there are stories and prophecies that are so intricately designed that it is nearly impossible for one person, or several, to write it.”
It wasnt written by one man or a few, we don’t know who the author is, but the reason you think it’s well-written is because the book has been around and available for proofreading for thousands of years.
November 13th, 2007 at 4:55 pm
The Christian faith is one that teaches peace and love like no other. It is a true and pure faith. If you would like to disprove it, read the bible. It is the doctrine Christianity is based on. In there are stories and prophecies that are so intricately designed that it is nearly impossible for one person, or several, to write it. It is organized in a manner that will kindle with your soul. Ever notice how some people can have everything heart heart desires, yet they still feel empty? You and I have had these feelings. This void is where God belongs. It is His spot in us; we can try (try being the operative word) to fill it, but we can’t. True joy lies in the relationship with the Creator; with the Savior; with the One who calls Himself, “I Am.” Don’t believe me? Try it! Try to disprove it! Try to fight it! You will soon feel two things…
1) you have found proof that God DOES NOT EXIST!!!
2) a gentle “pull” towards Him. (a paradox, I know.)
As Billy Graham put it…
“Whenever anyone asks me how I can be so certain about who and what God really is, I am reminded of the story of the little boy who was out flying a kite.
It was a fine day to go kite-flying, the wind was brisk and large billowy clouds were blowing across the sky. The kite went up and up until it was entirely hidden by the clouds.
What are you doing?” a man asked the little boy. “I’m flying a kite,” he relied. “Flying a kite, are you?” the man asked. “How can you be sure? You can’t your kite.” “no,” said the little boy, “I can’t see it, but every little while I feel a tug, so I know for sure that it’s there.”
Don’t take anyone else’s word for God. Find Him for yourself, and then you too will know by the wonderful, warm tug on you heartstring, that He is there, for sure.”
–Day by Day with Billy Graham
September 26th, 2007 at 5:42 pm
“Mere Christianity” ranks high on my list, along with “Surprised by Joy.” Peter Kreeft, an authority on Lewis, has an interesting book called “Between Heaven and Hell,” an imaginary dialogue between C.S. Lewis, John F. Kennedy and Aldus Huxley, who all died on November 22, 1963. Dr. Kreeft teaches at Boston College. Another more recent publication is “Letters To A Skeptic,” by Gregory A. Boyd. And “Mister God, This is Anna,” by Fynn, presents an insightful view of theology through the mind of a very bright, very young child.
I believe the surest approach to clear thinking is the use of ones senses to temper reason, not, as often seems to be the case, the other way around.
I get your point. I have read some of Hawking’s writings, but the Big Crunch hypothesis slipped my mind. Well, at the risk of sounding perhaps astronomically self-confident, my hunch is that Einstein got his theory right, all except the part about the time-space bit. But since I’m certainly no mathematician, even if my existence depended on choosing right, following some careful reflection, I’d probably just take my chances on the more unsophisticated, straight-forward-seeming linear time rather than any other concept of it(:-/)
September 25th, 2007 at 12:34 pm
Hey MAPK L,
I’m going to try a different Christian apologetics after I catch up on some other reading I’ve been meaning to do. I think I’ll go with Mere Christianity by C.S. Lewis. I’ve heard it would suite my style and tastes much better.
Chesterton’s arguments pretty much amounted to a verbose version of the ‘Christianity feels right’ argument. But since I place very little trust in feelings, I remained unconvinced. Also, his love of paradoxes really got on my nerves. “The problem with the candid friend is that he is not candid.” I put the book down for a month after I read that line.
Well, yes and no. I did present the possibility for the sake of discussion, but that the Big Bang theory does not rule out that possibility. According to our current theories, we know that no information can ’survive’ the Big Bang. It is quite possible that the universe had some form of existence prior to the Big Bang and that some event in that pre-state caused the Big Bang. But since no information can pass through that event, it would be impossible to know whether such pre-states actually existed.
The classic example is the Big Crunch hypothesis. This is where the universe will cease expanding at some point in the future and start contracting, eventually contracting to a point in a ‘Big Crunch’. This Big Crunch could precipitate a new Big Bang, where the universe once again expands. This cycle could have happened an infinite number of times in the past and we would have no way of knowing it. Yet, the Big Bang Theory would still be valid.
Also, according to the General Theory of Relativity states that time is not an imaginary abstraction, but just another dimension which has real existence just like the three-dimensional length-width-depth ones we are used to. Thus, just like a Mobious Strip is a two-dimensional object looped in the third dimension, our universe could be a four dimensional object looped in a fifth dimension. In such a scenario, time would be circular, with the no beginning or end.
Or, if you like String Theory (It really should be called the String Hypothesis since it has never been verified empirically), the universe is a vibrating point in the tenth dimension. But that’s a separate topic ;).
September 24th, 2007 at 5:16 pm
Hello Sid,
Silence seemed to have fallen everywhere at once.
I didn’t want to suggest it, myself, since you seemed disposed to reading the book anyway, but I began to take a notion that “Orthodoxy” may not have been especially right for you. In fact, it was really chapter four, in particular, that prompted me to recommend it.
Belief in an intelligent, all-loving supernatural, and infinite designer-creator of the universe frees us from the dullness of inevitability, and allows us to apperciate (at least more fully, I think) the wonder of variety of things around us.
In the same way Jesus spent his whole ministry—if not his entire life—in many, many different ways, expressing in word and action, what the Kingdom of Heaven is like, so I believe, the vast universe we live in and everything good in it serves to provide us with some elemental truth about the character and personality of God: His love, holiness, magnitude, likeness, sense of creativity and so on.
I half wonder if you are presenting the eternalness of the universe as a mere possibility, for the sake of discussion, and not as a probability, which, I’m sure you recognise would rule out the prevailing Big Bang theory. And I think there are two meanings for the term infinite. Literally, infinite time (which, for now, let us call linear) would only mean all time up to the present moment. But God’s infiniteness, in a formal sense, means the impossibility for him ever to have had a beginning or to ever cease to exist. I can fathom no reason to say it is impossible for the universe, at some point, not to have existed.
My opposion to the concept of circular time lies in the fact that I understand time to be purely abstract, and therefore essentially shapeless, as feet and inches are abstract. Time is nothing more than a means of measuring the separation of events, and consequently, contrary to popular Christian dogma, even God cannot be said to be outside of time, since it is actually nothing substantial to be in- or outside of. As soon as God created the universe, there came a time before and after, in his own existence, that he had created it. Perhaps time, for the religious, can be understood as an intrinsic aspect of God’s being. For now, that’s my own best explanation of it.
By the way, what, if anything have you heard from Neando?
September 24th, 2007 at 9:57 am
Hello MAPK L,
I haven’t heard from you in a while. Now a First Cause argument is definitely a rational argument but it has its own problems. To start with, there are two possibilities that obviate the need for a First Cause. The universe could be infinite in the past or, (almost equivalently) time my be circular. Both require no need for a First Cause. Secondly, even if we accept a First Cause, there is no reason to suppose a supernatural First Cause. It could as easily be a natural First Cause.
P.S. I finished Orthodoxy a month ago. Sorry it took so long. I think it was the wrong book for me.
September 23rd, 2007 at 8:13 pm
It is rational (but of what intellectual consequence?) to pre-suppose the non-existence of unicorns. It is also rational to pre-suppose a being existing outside nature, without beginning and without end, and therefore not knowable strictly through finite, physical senses. Such a pre-supposition would start with the rational, apparent necessity of a first cause of things.
It is not my purpose to answer for Aimee; I only want to bring into question the soundness of comparing fantasy to theology.
September 21st, 2007 at 9:20 am
Hello again Aimee,
“…you are presupposing that supernatural things can’t or don’t exist,”
Indeed. In the same way I presuppose that there is not an inviable, intangible unicorn that follows me around everywhere I go. I can’t prove there’s no such unicorn, but it is rational to presuppose there such a unicorn does not exist.
Also, I find that the term ’supernatural’ is usually ill-defined. Perhaps it would help if you defined the term for us? Thanks.
September 21st, 2007 at 5:10 am
Well, I’m guessing that you are presupposing that supernatural things can’t or don’t exist, as much as I presuppose that they can or do. It doesn’t matter, you can’t prove it either way. It’s a matter of which way you prefer to presuppose, and that is personal to every individual. I don’t rule out the existence of some type of spiritual afterlife, so I’m fine calling it approximations. You certainly aren’t obligated to do the same. :)
September 18th, 2007 at 10:12 am
Hello Aimee,
Suggesting that Akiane’s paintings are “best approximations” of supernatural things is presupposing that those supernatural things exist in the first place. I’d say her work is an interesting mix of dogma and imagination, not approximations for anything.
September 17th, 2007 at 5:43 pm
I am happy for the fact that Akiane has the opportunity to paint things that she enjoys and believes in. I’m also happy for anyone out there who has found something inspirational in her work. However, please do not make the mistake of coming to the conclusion that the artist Akiane, who is also human and therefore possesses a finite mind, has some kind of definitive knowledge of what “Jesus” or “Heaven” or anything else supernatural looks like physically. In my opinion she is, simply put, a very gifted girl with an amazing ability to visualize abstractions, as well as a vivid imagination and a desire to spread a positive message to the world. Her images of anything supernatural are nothing more than best approximations, she just puts them to paper with more skill and passion than most of the population.
September 17th, 2007 at 9:49 am
Back to the subject at hand. Freak? No, just different. On the up-and-up? Probably not. Skilled, yes. Creative, no. Original? No. Probably brainwashed by her parents. And exploited? Oh yeah.
September 1st, 2007 at 8:27 pm
I am inspired by the talent that God has given Akiane and her obedience to use it to give His messages.
Our minds are so finite that they cannot grasp what is in the mind of God,or how He chooses to work. I have Akianes book,and many people–both believers and unbelievers alike have been moved by her work and her story. God bless you Akiane
September 1st, 2007 at 6:49 pm
I suspect a something tricky with her parents…
Use of child’s gift with a little bit of cheat. The girl have everything to win and the parents too.
Most photographs on the site doesn’t show innocent eyes and simple joy.
God argument may be a way to escape the initial lie and turn it into something good.
August 30th, 2007 at 4:12 am
I have met Akiane, and her mother, a year and a half ago when she had a small exhibit in Seattle. First, let me relate something that others may not have mentioned: when I approached her, when she looked my way, and when she started talking, I became very aware of a sense of wonderful peace, love, and purity touching me… its hard to describe in words. This is a very experiential reason why I know Akiane is carrying something special from God… I am sensitive to this “phenomena”, and I personally know it as the anointing of God. I AM a follower of Jesus, and He introduced Himself to me in a supernatural way, and I continue to experience and expect a supernatural relationship with Him… in my opinion, people who are not experiencing a personal, supernatural relationship with God (through Jesus) are being fooled by religion, which can never help or produce much of anything. God is tangible, and He loves to demonstrate His reality to humankind… hey, I guess that was what He did when He sent Jesus into the world, fully God and fully man…
As to Akiane’s art, I grew up in a household which was very involved with art: my mother was an oil painter, almost more devoted to that than mothering, and she was part of a prominent movement in modern art called the “Northwest School”, whose heyday was from the 1940’s to maybe the 70’s. I have been, with my mother, to many of the great museums in this country and Europe, and I can attest that Akiane’s ability is starting to fit into the Master category. By the way, its not uncommon for great artists and composers to credit their faith in God as inspiration for their works: Bach, Handel, Da Vinci, etc…
I think the truth about Akiane can only really be discerned through spiritual eyes, by people who are open, and not closed, to the possibility of a loving, benevolent, relational God who wants to express His love for this world, and for them… When you approach anything with a closed mind, its amazing what you can miss… Even Jesus says, “… I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and dine with him, and he with Me.” (Rev. 3:20) In other words, if you have an open heart, and ask Him to, He’ll show up…
July 6th, 2007 at 9:36 am
I think Akiane is amazing and inspirational. At such a young age, she is able to render such lifelike, spiritual art that resonates and brings hope to the viewer.
July 5th, 2007 at 9:49 pm
It is true that there have been mny flash-in-the-pan prodigies, and that time will tell about Akiane. Unless she becomes a master painter in adulthood, I believe she will become better-known for her poetry, which she says is harder work for her. But I can think of only a few great artists who went unrecognised in their own lifetimes. Off hand, I can’t name name ten.
July 4th, 2007 at 10:04 am
Who are you calling crazy, and who is arguing? I thought this was an interesting discussion. I agree that she does some marvelous painting,(if it can be established that she is the one doing the work) but, since when do intelligent people decide on the merit of anything according to how much attention it gets. Check out the history of past masters of art. Most were not acknowledged until after death. There have been many flash-in-the-pan prodigies. Only time will tell us about Akiane’ work.
July 3rd, 2007 at 10:20 pm
You people are crazy to argue about this. She is a talented young girl, who cares where she gets her inspiration. Be it God or nature or some crazy halucinations. She is creative, and you people need to respect her for that. Maybe some other 8 year olds are painting things just as good, good for them, but obviously there is something special with this girl, or she wouldn’t have all the attention…
July 1st, 2007 at 12:29 pm
To be more specific, in the age five collection there are a number of drawings with lots of pencil marks showing and rather crude shading. In this same age group there is a drawing of a hand with very fine shading gradations and not an individual pencil mark to be seen. Perhaps it was the last one at that age? No, and none of the age six drawings are special. I was asked to judge a home school annual art contest this year and saw work of a number of children which equaled or surpassed these. On to age 8 - could The Planted Eyes be at the same level of development as Life Without a Leash? The latter is fairly typical of the good 8-year-old work that I judged. The Planted Eyes is something else again. If she could paint at that level, why would she paint at the other?
June 29th, 2007 at 7:35 pm
People who think best in concrete terms have difficulty understanding abstract thoughts and images. But real and astute truth is, nevertheless, to be found in surealistic images, for example, and “nonsense†stories, such as “Alice In Wonderland.†And it may be said that the same applies to the claims, thoughts and actions of unusually inspired individuals, such as Akiane or Joan of Arc, neither of whom I take to be (or in the case of the latter, to have been) insane.
In my opinion, many have done well, expanding the discussion without moving too far from the main purpose of this forum, but I agree that it is always nice to see it coming back to the real root of the issue.
June 29th, 2007 at 5:06 pm
The book akiane her life her art was among the selections in my artists book club. I got it from my library. I have skimmed over most of the previous comments and find it interesting that the main topic seems to be arguments about religion, Bible, creation, etc. I thought the original question was limited to akiane and her work. I did notice a big difference in technique in some of the paintings that were made at the same age. The more recent ones seem to have a cohesive style that suggests one painter. I thought the poetry sounded like something coming out of an asylum, even though there was some imaginative imagery, nothing made sense. Am I the only person who was immediately reminded of the Joan of Arc story?
June 23rd, 2007 at 9:38 pm
God reveals to us as much as we need to know, but not everything we don’t need to know, even to specially gifted people, like Akiane or even Abraham, Moses or the apostle Paul. Because art is SELF-expression, I would suggest all of the above as the reason God has not(at least within reasonable probability) inspired anyone to portray the true image of the historical Jesus.
I look forward to knowing, more than that I think, the palatability of the Caananite wedding feast wine.
June 21st, 2007 at 1:53 pm
i’m somewhat confused. akiane is certainly artistically gifted and you will find no argument from me on that point. i do wonder though why God would not place the image of the actual Jesus in her mind for her to paint and share with the world. it seems to me painting the face of a model (whoever the person was) and then naming the finished piece “Jesus” just seems wrong in the context of her “God” commentary. we could all do that…draw a face and give it the name “Jesus”. i say this because her comments about her connection with God is that she is…special…from Him she receives visions for the images she paints and the poetry she writes; and the implication is that her final painting is in fact the face of Jesus…but it’s not, now is it? her painting is just one rendation out of many artists over the centuries that have been inspired to paint the same subject matter…but is in no way evidence that her painting is the actual face of Jesus. i also find her evasive or riddle-like answers to direct questions quite disturbing. v.
June 15th, 2007 at 1:26 am
They’re are two types of “freak” one nobody understands or never would want to understand, and one who people would call a “Jesus freak”. I’m a Jesus freak and I’m not ashamed of it. Akiane has a remarkable gift and ability. She has the ability to talk to us through God’s specific word. She has the ability to say, “yes there is a God, and I know that for a fact.” She has the ability to take you to a different place and better develop your imagination. She is an amazing young woman and it is a miracle that we have someone in this world to look up to for aditional guidance through her works and actions. This girl is one in a million. She is very rare and special. Words can not desribe how happy I am to have lived in this generation, and to see something as spirit and soul renuing as this. I’m just so happy. She gives us so much hope and something good to look forward to.
May 29th, 2007 at 5:45 pm
The caps really make your argument more convincing….
also, brian, while Buddism may be non-theistic, it’s still a religion.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nontheism
May 29th, 2007 at 6:13 am
When you feel from your heart and love pours through you know that LOVE comes from GOD. Her inspirations inspire the onlooker. You can not help but be inspired, intrigued, and feel something very spiritual in her work. Her words, her phrasing, her thoughtfulness and caring express themselves in her art and her life. I believe she is here on this planet to reveal this “knowing”.
May 4th, 2007 at 7:32 pm
Brian, Do you mean that Buddhism is not a religion?
April 30th, 2007 at 5:01 pm
[...] regarding this issue. First, how is Laney’s claim that God spoke to her any different from Akiane Kramarik’s claim? Christians cannot claim that God would never command a parent to perform such a horrendous act [...]
April 30th, 2007 at 2:32 pm
Hello Leesa,
How do you know she is from God?
April 30th, 2007 at 2:25 pm
she’s absolutely brilliant and from God… some people are here on earth to teach is wonderful things through thier gifts and aquired knowledge
April 29th, 2007 at 11:42 pm
” because we all have diffrent religons”
Do we? I don’t. And buddists don’t.
April 29th, 2007 at 11:37 pm
She’s not a freak just like other people they have visions too so I suggest that we stop calling her a freak because we all have diffrent religons.