This story would get the Rosa Parks seal of approval in there ever was one. Thanks go to Mary from Italy for the tip.
Last month an American-Israeli woman named Miriam Shear headed to Israel for what was to be a beautiful five-week vacation. Every day, Shear would take the local bus and head towards Old City to pray. She thought she was doing everything properly. She had always dressed modestly and even sported a snood. But she made one huge mistake. Shear sat in the front of the bus.
Evidently word of Rosa Parks’ victory some 50 years ago hasn’t reached the Haredi yet. We all remember the Haredi. They’re the Ultra-Orthodox crazy Jews that live by the old-school way of life. Well, they didn’t approve of Shear’s desire to sit up front and demanded she move. This is when Miriam Shear ceased to exist and Super Jew was born.
An Ultra-Orthodox Jewish man told Shear to leave to which she promptly said no. The man returned fire with a shot of spit in to her face. Shears returned fire and was soon surrounded by 4 men. They slapped her, beat her, and kicked Shears. She gave the freaks a good run for their money and delivered a nut-shot to one man and a punch to yet another.
I find it interesting how not a single person intervened. One man helped after the fact, but nobody tried to stop it. What’s even more fascinating is that passengers called her a "stupid American" with no sechel [common sense]. The Jews actually blamed her for not knowing her place!
I know Mohamed would have jumped in to save her ;)
Related posts:
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- Ten Commandments Super-Sized With A Side Of Crazy
- Green Light For More Jewish Stupidities
Wow, whatever happened to the 10 Commandments? I mean you figured holy people would be more considerate in such matters. I personally wouldn’t of given up my seat unless your elderly or disabled, because they would need it.
Personally I’m glad we shitcanned such status quos, just because you have a a fancy hat doesn’t mean you can treat me a goddamn porch monkey.
/taking “porch monkey” back
This just goes to show you how different our values are. Forgive the pun, but unlike the Rosa Parks scenario, this isn’t a black and white situation. I know why she was called a stupid american, though people might not like it…
Some americans visiting other countries fight for what THEY think is right, when they could accept the way other people think. Americans are often seen as ignorant and uncaring of other people’s values because of this. They are viewed as disrespectful, rude, loud, obnoxious, self-righteous, etc.
I’m taking the position that maybe she should have just gone to the back of the bus. The people who beat her were cruel and uncaring, yes. People should never think it is okay to beat others like that. Still, what she did was almost like someone going into a back alleyway in New York waving a 100 dollar bill in the air and refusing to give it away when confronted by 5 “gentlemen in gang attire”.
The other people recognized the signs, while she didn’t. It was stubborn and ignorant of her, and the Jews who beat her obviously hated her for it. This doesn’t mean they were right, or that she was wrong. It just means she was being a “stupid american”.
Very interesting that the bus driver’s version of the story and the other eyewitness’s version have approximately nothing in common.
Also, I believe she’s Canadian, despite the anti-American sentiment directed toward her.
I’m going to have to disagree with you there, there’s the issue of having some respect. Just because they feel she was ignorant (somewhat, read the article and she was told before that the seats in the front were for “men”).
In the long run all it does is make a bad name for Heredis (lol) seriously these guys are punks, they feel because they are ultra orthodox that the rules don’t apply to them. Especially in cases of assault (which this was). I was raised to respect everyone, and to see such rules as ones not to obey.
On another note. Heredis are fucking dicks, it’s not just this lady who has a problem with him it’s well known throughout Israel that they are dicks, their opinions are that the same as any other fundamentalist. Most of Israel is pretty pro-American. The fact remains though that you have no right to lay your hands on another person.
All these Jewish pricks have shown is they are more concerned about a status quo vs being a sensible human being.
Anyway, if not hitting women makes me a “stupid American” then I’m a fuckin retard.
/amused by his slinky
Thomas B.-
She was a American, who lived in Canada.
“Some americans visiting other countries fight for what THEY think is right”
There are some things that may simply differ from culture to culture. When to and not to tip. Date etiquette. But there are some things which are or aren’t right no matter where you go and who you are. Murder. Thievery. Racism. Sexism. It’s basic humanity.
You’re comparison to a NYC alley is just insanely off the mark. This is more akin to Muslims bombing churches in response to the Danish cartoons. Complete overreaction to an outdated doctrine used as an excuse for violence. Religion is never a justification for violence.
no its just plain wrong. yes it is a case of the laws of the land. but man when the laws of the land are this blatantly wrong, then they need to be spoken against. religious freaks at their best. just when i read a positive thing about israel and their high rate of seculars, this happens. is this not a perfect example of religious insanity? now i do hope this story is true cause cases of spun ‘net stories have been quite frequent lately , but i have no reason to believe this one is fake.
there is another facet to this story. why go to a country whose customs you know won’t work for you? a few years back a friend wanted to go to turkey for vacation. i told her that is not an option simply because i am not OK with their local laws and customs. we all have a choice where we go. going uninformed begs for trouble…
i would love to see the egyptian pyramids. i won’t in my lifetime (unless i join the navy ;-). now its a shame, but not worth the risk.
Again and again, stupid people every where.
Boris, you should go to Egypt and see how people are there, you might learn something, you might see how nice Muslims are, and you might change your mentality about Muslims.
Gasonmo,
If somebody tried to beat a woman in Egypt, he will get beaten so bad, or at least they would take him off, they are not going to watch. I don’t even have to jump.
Give it a rest, guy.
To anyone who thinks I’m being harsh to Mohamed, read some of his other comments. He just says the same stuff over and over without much of anything to back it up.
TO everyone else: Yeah I know. I agree. I totally condemn what those assholes did to that woman. It must have been horrible for her; she must be hurting emotionally even RIGHT NOW. That makes me very upset. But I still think she was being stubborn, self-righteous, and ignorant. But no matter what, she didn’t deserve that. NOBODY deserves that. That’s not gonna change my opinion though.
Arktis,
Let’s say this situation happened in Muslim country, what would your opinion?
I will tell, your opinion most likely will be, that Muslims downgrade the women, and why in the hell the women aren’t allowed to sit in front, and bla bla bla…
I’m sorry I don’t know who to back this one up, you are going to use the same old double standerd, it’s good for any body else other than Muslims.
“Let’s say this situation happened in Muslim country, what would your opinion?”
I’d probably say the same thing.
“I will tell, your opinion most likely will be, that Muslims downgrade the women, and why in the hell the women aren’t allowed to sit in front, and bla bla bla…”
Yeah I’d probably say that, too.
“I’m sorry I don’t know who to back this one up, you are going to use the same old double standard, it’s good for any body else other than Muslims.”
I am harsher on Muslims than Jews, yes. Maybe that’s wrong. I’ve known more Jews than Muslims. Jews remind me a lot of Christians, with which I am more familiar with and I understand more. The Muslims I have met didn’t really share a lot in common with the Christians and Jews I have talked to. I have asked them a lot of questions, been polite, and tried to understand as much as I can.
Double standard? No. Favoritism? Yes, sort of. A little.
I don’t like Judaism, Christianity or Islam. I am harsher on Islam, yes. I see it as more of a threat. Is that wrong?
Let me do something: Ultra-orthodox Jews downgrade the women. That’s wrong. I don’t like it.
Actually no… Mohamed, I am actually harsher on Christians than Muslims or Jews. I know more Christians. I argue with them all the time. I can get really brutal with them.
Compared to that, Muslims basically get off easy as far as I am concerned.
As for favoritism, I used the wrong word. It’s not favoritism because I don’t like any of them. It’s just a matter of who gets it worse from me. I wish I hadn’t used the word ‘favoritism’ now, and I can’t take it back. I can only say that it’s not what I meant; it was the wrong word.
Dammit! I totally let Mohamed bait me! Argh. He’s wrong, and that’s obvious! Look at my post right before his. I clearly did not say what he’s telling me I did. He put words in my mouth and I fell for it. Dammit!
Grrr!
Guys, you’ll have to forgive me this one. I messed up.
Look, sometimes you all have to do what you feel is right, regardless of what others may think, that’s what makes changers different from people who just walk the line. Often tradition must be challenged simply out of principle.
Don’t let Mohamed get ya, he’s trolling, it’s what they do.
I think what you’re It’s based on the idea that people respond best to galvanizing examples, like what Rosa parks did.
Maybe I’ve neglected that by having a pessimistic attitude. Maybe that attitude is justifiable these days. I feel there’s a larger issue to be found here.
Hmm… thanks.
I feel, like, I am a nihilist, many people call me that. But I have principles I stand up for.
Maybe I’m a asshole who is just occasionally wants to fight “the man”.
Regardless.
So lets take this into its atomic pieces.
Woman gets on a bus in a city. Due to the ways of the city she is in, women are to sit in the back of the bus. The woman refuses to move and is then physically assaulted. Others in a position to help do not intercede because of their traditions, leaving a woman to defend herself against multiple agressors.
Taken like that, there is no excuse. Take religion out of it (or just call it tradition) and to the average person this is a clear case of a city that has fallen behind the wave of the moral zeitgeist and needs a lesson in basic human rights. Note that its because of Orthodox Judaism and people start debating whether or not this is right and the value of the cenario. In my own opinion, Orthodox Judaism could use a serious updating of its moral outlook.
Unfortunately, the absolutist morals of faith, unlike the consequentialist morality of secular laws, never get the liberty of such refreshes.
Long story short… I’m damn proud she got that nut-shot in! Those people deserved a good crotch-booting.
While I do think the beating and the ‘girls in the back of the bus’ are stupid, I agree with those who said she could at least have respected the ‘tradition’.
I am not a sucker for tradition, but when a country start giving respect to foreign traditions over local traditions, you end up in Quebec…
Ever saw Quebec? Idiotic things are always sprouting up because some foreign weirdo is imposing his way of life upon the rest of us; Sikh are wearing knifes in school where weapons are expressly banned, some extremist musulman beat his wife and actually did win his legal trial because he had a religious reason to do it. etc, etc…
Seriously when you go in some other country, just respect their frigging traditions or just don’t go there.
Problem with that example is that in Quebec the traditions being trod upon are secular ones. No religious text prescribes “Thou shalt not bring knives to school”. She disrespected a religious tradition to discriminate against women by imposing her secular right to sit where she damn well pleases.
Religion is getting off to easy in both the case in this article and the examples Naery gives. Why should we respect socially backwards traditions just because they fall under religious pretense? If we give way on this one, why not accept that Christians can stone homosexuals who are publicly homosexual because “its their religious right to do so”?
I don’t think religion is a good reason to allow or disallow anything.
I’m with Humanistic on this one. Religion and their practices have been given too much of a pass in western societies. There has been a taboo in place preventing open criticism of religious beliefs in public. Behaviors that are inherently wrong should not be protected or even tolerated simply because they are religious in nature.
I am going to add my agreement to the last couple comments. As much as some might like to believe that the non-religious are nihilists and have no standards, we do. The Western standards of human decency and morality I know of are the result of thousands of years of different levels of good and bad experiences. I am tempted to go back to the last article talking about what Jews can’t do on the Shabbat, among them “marking hides”. Times change. People change. But we are all still human beings. We shouldn’t accept a blatant disregard for human rights in the name of “tradition” of any kind, no matter who does it. There is a line between respecting other beliefs and letting them have an unhealthy effect on society. These Jews crossed it.
“Don’t let Mohamed get ya, he’s trolling, it’s what they do”
Revlic, think again and you will know who is the best in doing that.
Artic,
I didn’t try to get you, or trick you, that’s the plain truth, if this accident happened in Muslims country, the whole world will go up side down, because Muslims are so bad and why should we tolerate their tradition, and now tolarate the same tradition and the same behavior that most of you fighting here.
I just told the truth, and how your quote would be different if it was Muslims who did that, I’m personnely against man hitting women, under any circumstances, it shouldn’t be tolerated whether it’s Jews, Muslims or Christians.
All of you against why we make the women pray behind men in Isalm, and all of you accuse Islam that he downgrade the women and that’s one of the reason, so what do you feel about that Arktis?
I’m rather shocked that any of you otherwise-reasonable folks would talk about respecting “their” tradition.
I can’t help but translate such idiocy into clearer terms: “What’s her problem? I mean, c’mon, it’s only sexism. Why doesn’t she just get with the program?”
And while I realize that you’ve all condemned the physical attack, let’s get it clear — in the US this would be prosecuted as a gender-based Hate Crime and each of these violent, malevolent nutjobs would be looking at a multi-year prison bid. Which, considering the circumstances, sounds like a fine idea.
Respect? I’m sure not talking about respect… I’m talking about common sense. I think you’ve all sort of missed that…
I totally agree with fotomat. All this talk about “their” laws, all this relativism sickens me. So it’s “their” law if people are stoned in Somalia? It was also mostly compliant with then-and-there laws to send people to concentration camps and gulags. (Sorry for proving Godwin’s Law for the millionth time.) If the people suffering from “their” laws were introduced to the possible alternatives of societies and had a relatively free choice, what would they choose? “Their” laws only benefit the ones who made them up and who claim to be speaking for the entire people!
Mohammed,
Stop looking for the double standard. Militant muslims and orthodox jews and fundamentalist christians are equally backwards and ignorant.
Yes SOME westerners hate muslims in particular… those people are probably christians. Look for a christian site and argue there IMO.
On this site, you are speaking with mostly agnostics/atheists. Most of us think you’re all equally crazy. This thread should show that we think the jews can be just as crazy as anyone else. No conspiracies, no double standards, no evil american plots to undermine islam… just pure and simple resentment for ALL religions and cults equally.
The most disturbing thing to me, was the on-lookers passivity. I might be old-fashioned and got the scars to prove it but letting a “gang” to attack a lone woman is not my style. Hell or high water, but if that would happen around me, there would be much grief for such bullies.
The whole thing seems more of an example how the world is going down the proverbial drains when people let small groups to do what they please.
I do not know if people are scared of groups and thus allow them a free-reign or are they just so jaded with all the violence that they do not care?
Your Father,
I wasn’t talking to all of you, I was focusing on certain person said stupid things, and I didn’t agree on it. I agreed with some people on this topic that beating the woman was bad thing to happen.
The other thing that this site is not just for Athiest, this site name is religious freak, and we can ask Gasonmo if this site just for Athiest or for every body of different beliefs to talk about, I know that you don’t find a lot of Christian or Jews here, I don’t know if they really beleive in theire religion or they ashamed of it.
I argue thoughts and ideas, and I try to put different dimension for any topic to reveal something you might didn’t think about.
If Gasonmo think that this site for Athiest, it shoudn’t be religious freak, and if there is no Muslims, Christian or Jews here, this site would have no point at all. You will just talk about any topic with the other Athiest here without any challange, and you will never come back again.
Thank you
This site is NOT for Atheists only. As a matter of fact, I am trying my best to accomodate people of all faiths. You can’t have a complete discussion about religion without people from other faiths participating… at least in my opinion.
gasmonso
OH MY GOD
those crazy fucks (haredi) drive me crazy those poeple are the jew version of taliban\al-quida the american woman did nothing wrong she can seat wherever she wants in the bus and fuck the other pasengers for not helping her
those haredi fanatics are a discrase heh… many israelis hate them more than the palestinians cause palestinians fuck israel from outside but those morons fuck israel from within
re: gasmonso
Yeah, who else are we going to make fun of?
Revlic,
I agree, and on the other side, Who Muslims would feel bad for?
I’m new here. You have the bus situation all wrong. She herself is Orthodox/Haredi, albeit American/Canadian. Certain buses on particualar routes in J’lem are officially “segregated”. This bus line was not. Apparently there is an attempt by some to make it a “segregated” bus. Since this was not a “segregated” bus she sat up front. Had it been a “segregated” bus she would have sat in the back.
She’s not fighting against segregated buses, nor was she trying to make a statement by sitting up front initially. It’s no more complicated than that.
Now back to your regularly scheduled cursing & fighting.
I might add, that in my opinion, the extreme behavior of Charedi’s (ultra-orthodox) in Israel is a backlash against the extreme anti-religious behavior & even laws by the secular Israeli gov’t over the years. There’s a proposal, made by the likely new leader of the Labor Party, Ofir Paz-Pines (Pines is pronounced ‘penis’- imagine if he ever becomes Prime Minister- talk about dicks) for a new law that would ban discussion of religion with non-religious people. Imagine, in the Jewish state one is not allowed to discuss Judaism. How sick is that?
So I think that this attempt to make J’lem more “holy” by segregating the sexes, is simply a backlash against the overt attempt to make the Holy City, profane with Gay parades etc.
I, of course, do not condone the violent behavior of this moron against Miriam Shear or anyone, nor do I even condone segregated buses. But these things don’t happen in a vacuum.
It must hurt the ultra-orthodox people to realize that the state, the people, and the religion are not one and the same. It must make them angry.
Just as sunlight hurts your eyes if you live in darkness, so does reality sting if you live in a box.
Their reaction is nothing but barbaric.
Arktis,
Your sunlight analogy is an interesting one. I think that the “ultra-orthodox” would amend your analogy slightly. They would say that this “sunlight” is actually harmful ultra-violet rays. Sure it may hurt more if you live in darkness, but it eventually hurts everyone, even those who do not. Not only that, all those enlightened sun bathers who’ve been getting a great tan for 30 years, now have skin cancer.
Their philosphy is to shield their community from these harmful rays.
Of course, we agree that this individual’s reaction (not ‘their reaction’) was nothing but barbaric.
“Of course, we agree that this individual’s reaction (not ‘their reaction’) was nothing but barbaric.”
I don’t understand this bit. It wasn’t an individual, it was multiple individuals. The only individual involved was the lady, surely you can’t be referring to her reaction. The word “their” can refer to an individual and to a group right? So “their reaction” could be used to refer to that group of men. I am confused.
I guess I have to clear this one up.
“their” refers to the ultra orthodox population. “reaction” refers to the so-called backlash Steve was talking about. The entire post was in direct response to Steve’s.
There’s also a larger picture, meaning that you could take what I said and easily apply it to other peoples. I’d think that to be obvious, though.
Allow me to clarify. My impression is that on that bus there was one man who attacked the woman. It was not a group of men who did so.
In terms of the backlash & the overall philosophy of the charedi community, I don’t think they are barbaric at all.
They are struggling to preserve a way of life. They are attempting to insulate their community from modern intrusions which they consider to be antithetical to Judaism.
Unfortunately in today’s society that has become increasingly difficult.
The vast vast majority of Charedim would be comparable to the Amish rather than the Taliban. There are a few crazies that seem to be getting the attention lately.
I think that because they feel under attack by the secular Israeli culture & have been under attack for many years, more & more have become crazies.
Sort of reminds me of that old commercial against litter, where you had that old Native American (back then we called them Indians) seeing the litter with that tear in his eye. The Indians were here first & now are helpless to stop those that are ruining their land.
Well, Chareidim were in Israel first. There’s been a continuous Jewish presence in the Holy Land since Temple times. Chareidim began arriving in earnest beginning in the early 1800′s. Those that ended up establishing & controlling the state, secular anti-religious Jews, did not begin arriving until the beginning of the 20th century.
Chareidim feel as if they are up against a wall & so they are fighting back, often in inappropriate ways.
Just my opinion.
There is no doubt that the men who engaged in this behavior are criminals both according to civil (Israeli) law and Jewish law. I have several Israeli friends and family members who spent time in Israel and this is not a common experience — indeed none of them experienced it albeit there were some incidents with Haredi thugs. These are extreme cases, the exceptions that prove the rule that Judiasm is a wonderful religion that teaches love and respect. I note the presence of several Satmar Rabbis and the recent Iranian “Holocaust” convention. Again an exception that proves the rule, and was even condemned by other anti Zionist Haredi:.
http://www.thejewishweek.com/news/newscontent.php3?artid=13452
Since you like to focus on weird negative things about Judaism (sort of the “dog bites man” syndrome I thought I would give you a few positive things that just poped up, to help start of the new year. Here is an interesting article about how we Jews invented basketball:
http://www.thejewishweek.com/news/newscontent.php3?artid=13480
and here is an interesting project to help the Mayan Indian (they are producing all sorts of things including some specifically Jewish):
http://www.thejewishweek.com/news/newscontent.php3?artid=13452
Happy Jan 1
R Lee Smith
Steve refers to a proposal to “ban discussion of religion with non-religious people”. This an overstatement, typical of many posts on this so called moderated discussion list. There is a bill being discussed that would ” make it illegal for Jewish and non-Jewish outreach organizations to try to bring youths under the age of 14 closer to religious practice.”
http://www.thejewishweek.com/news/newscontent.php3?artid=13435
The bill is actually quite consistent with the anti Jewish/religious sentiments of many posting on this and similar lists and reflects the disdain that some secular Israelis have for Judaism. I would be amazed and disturbed were it to pass. The secular Israelis apparently fear that these encounters will ignite the “spark of a Jew” that exists in their children but they have been apparently trying to extinguish.
R Lee Smith
“Reverend” Lee Smith: I have seen your website.
It disturbs me. You disturb me.
As to your post: If religious people feel persecuted, it is usually because of one of two things.
1.) Another religious group with different beliefs is genuinely persecuting them.
2.) Good sense has tried to place a limit on how far they are allowed to go, and they cry foul.
Both are examples of the reasoning behind not giving any group too much free reign. Placing limits on a group is especially important when independent thought is discouraged within said group. Such as YOURS.
It wouldn’t be such a problem if your ilk were more prone to being rational. Unfortunately you are willing to go so far as to disgust distort and disturb in order to advance yourselves upon others.
Terribly sorry. Seems I’ve made a mistake by confusing you with another poster. He had a religious site with grotesque images and propaganda.
Sorry for mistaking you for him.
The user I confused you with posted under the nickname “Rev. Spitz”, if you’re curious.
Clearly a huge mistake on my part, and I once again humbly apologize.
Steve said that his “impression is that on that bus there was one man who attacked the woman. It was not a group of men who did so.”
Steve, it sounds like you didn’t read the article in Haaretz. Let me provide you the briefest of highlights:
“Shear says that on the bus three weeks ago, she was slapped, kicked, punched and pushed by a group of men who demanded that she sit in the back of the bus with the other women…. ‘Four men surrounded me and slapped my face, punched me in the chest, pulled at my clothes, beat me, kicked me. My snood [hair covering] came off. I was fighting back and kicked one of the men in his privates. I will never forget the look on his face.’”
This is a group of men who are willing, on a moment’s notice, to beat the living shit out of woman on a public bus because she refused to go along with their religiously-based misogyny.
For Steve, a brutal group-attack against a 50-year-old woman is “inappropriate.” How would YOU describe such behavior?
is there any chance of a UFC-style match up between the followers of these fundie religions and their sects?
i’d love to see some ultra-orthodox jews get a bitch slap from some bearded ayatollahs, or perhaps mormons vs christian evangelicals. im surprised that in a country that can spawn shows like ‘flamethrower’ and the UFC that this hasnt been thought of already! we’d need to keep buddhist monks out of it though, ive seen their shaolin moves that would make a complete mockery of it all.
(though as far as ‘religions’ go, buddhism seems to be the least offensive and not requiring faith or belief in fairytales about supernatural beings)
Important?…
Is this really important?…
/abook.shtml
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