Here's a classic clip that showed on Qatar television a few years ago. It's a debate between female talk show host Al-Shazli and a lawyer named Dr. Ibrahim Elias. I have seen some videos like this before, but Elias has some choice quotes. Here are a few to chew on:
The phenomenon of beatings is widespread, but does religion support beatings? No, religion is a means of therapy. When Allah said in the Koran "and beat them," he didn't establish it as a rule, but as a means of therapy.
Oh, so beating your wife is just like giving her a couple pills for a headache. Nice.
For example, a man comes home from work and finds his wife watching TV. She doesn't even get up to make him food. He tells her once, twice, and asks again. If only once he would raise his voice and beat her, she would get up to prepare food for him and by the next day she'd be obedient. This will last for a week and when she forgets, he will remind her. Let's admit it, the woman was created from a crooked rib.
Thanks to Tiberiu for the scoop! You can view the transcript here.
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“There is big differnce between Hitler and Muhammed, Muhammed succeded to deliever his message and get people out of slavery”
Mohamed I am a bit confused over your writing. I have seen your arguments many times by now.
Do you know that slavery existed under the rule of your prophet?
Do you know that Muhammed himself had plenty of slaves?
Yes or no?
“Hitler tried to kill and destroy what ever and presecute people, without Muhammed you might be ended as slave.”
Hitler wanted to expand his tribes territory. Anyone who stood in his way was destroyed. The people that was conquered was either to accept nazism as ideology or to become either vasals or slaves. People who spoke out against his rule was killed.
That reminds me of somebody..
How long does the slavery last, Islam the only religion used practicle ways to get rid of slavery as fast as no nation could do, read about it more.
Muhammed died poor, he was married to Khadeeja and she was rich and she trusted him so much before revaltion comes to him, that means he didn’t need money, and he died poor, so that denies all your lies and misrepresnting the facts.
If he needed the money he would have it so easy.
Hitler didn’t fight to help people get our of preseciton like Muhammed did, when the Roman and Bezantyne slaved the Christian and the other peopl, Muhammd freed the world from the slavery, read history agian.
Question, why Mohamed Ali(the boxer) adopted Islam?
I really eager to answer my question, if Mohamed Ali know Muhammed was taking people as slaves and call them names, would you think he would be a Muslim.
I think after all of this argument, Mohamed died poor, and he freed the world of the slavery, so you better change the subject, because you would lose the case to prove me wrong on any of them.
“I think after all of this argument, Mohamed died poor, and he freed the world of the slavery, so you better change the subject, because you would lose the case to prove me wrong on any of them.”
If he freed the world for slaves, why did he keep slaves himself?
Why were he given slaves as gifts – and why did he keep them in slavery?
Why did he himself give slaves as gifts?
Why were prisoners of war and their families kept as slaves on the prophets orders?
Why does the Quran, which prohibit a LOT of things, speak of slavery as a natural and legal institution?
In fact the Ottoman (turkish) and Persian empires were one of the last to abolish slavery. Full abolition of slavery did not come until the twentieth century
Saudi Arabia was one of the last states to abolish slavery. Along with Yemen, Saudi Arabia abolished slavery in 1962.
You claim that Muhammed died poor even though he collected thousands of silver pieces, dromedars, goats and sheeps and slaves during his conquests.
Could you please refer from your sources? If not you should apologize for calling me a liar.
I wonder… How can Mohamed be poor when he needs 9 houses to have his 9 wives to live in? This doesn’t compute…
I’m not sure they had their own houses but they certainly had their own rooms. When he got mortally ill he was taken to Aishas room.
So he needed a palace with rooms for 9 wifes. Also he would need rooms for his slaves and of course himself. thats a big house. Much much bigger than mine.
Also he would need a steady large income or land to feed all these people.
Just read how they were eating, and what they were eating, they didn’t care that much for what they eat.
Omar Bin Elkatab borrowed peiece fo cloth from his son, because he can’t take more than the other Muslims take.
He loved pumpkin, cucumber and fresh dates but hated garlic, so you are right he MUST have been poor then.
Never mind that he lived in a large house with 9 wifes and slaves and didnt need to work. right?
Come on Mohamed – Is that all you got? his taste in food? I still say your prophet was greedy for power, wealth and women and appearently you owe me an apology.
He had slaves before Islam, and he didn’t have any after Islam, I don’t where you got your resources, and since when that this area plant cucumber and pumpkin, were you joking or you talking serious.
And here something for you to know, there was young kid lost his family, and then he ended to be slave in the market, and Prophet Muhammed bought him before Islam, and then after a while his parents knew where is he, so they headed to Muhammed and ask him to pay money and get him back, so Muhammed told them if the kid agreed, I will let him go for free(because he knows how the kid like him, and he didn’t want to show the kid that he want to get rid of him), the kid refused to go back with his parents, and he rather to stay with Muhammed and Kjadeeja, and that was before even Islam.
So to talk about Muhammed, I would like to be his slave, that would be honor to be slave for such a person, so stop get your fake stories.
One more thing, to argue that Muhammed was greedy and he kept slaves, you will lose this argument easily, and that’s why I put this quotos up to show how the westerner couldn’t say any bad thing about him, on contrary, they glorify him.
Power, wealth and women, you are losing the argument big time.
So he had enough money to buy and feed a slave, yet he was poor?
You never answered about the houses of his 9 wives(supposing that he had only 9. Mohammed had 9 women at the same time, but he had a total of 12)
Mohamed wrote:
“He had slaves before Islam, and he didn’t have any after Islamâ€
Not true. I have a feeling you just wrote that because you want it to be true. You didn’t even bother to check it out and probably hoped nobody else could or would. Am I correct?
There are plenty of examples from his personal life, his laws and “revelationsâ€. All clearly shows how he looked on slavery. I have given you examples of this earlier.
Here is one final example.
When Muhammed had worked as a prophet for many years and was getting old, he finally had a son with a slavegirl named Maria. Muhammed was so happy that he gave a slave as a gift to the man who brought the good news. The slavegirl was also given her freedom, but according to Muhammed, only as a reward because she had given birth to Muhammeds son.
If you make a claim without even knowing whether or not its true, you are actually lying. How does your God look at dishonesty?
“..and since when that this area plant cucumber and pumpkin, were you joking or you talking serious.â€
No and you should know that because you wrote earlier:
“Just read how they were eating, and what they were eating, they didn’t care that much for what they eat.â€
You wrote that too without knowing anything about it? He even made laws against eating garlic. Thats what sociopaths in power does – tries to control other people.
“So to talk about Muhammed, I would like to be his slave, that would be honor to be slave for such a person, so stop get your fake stories.â€
I got good news for you then. You ARE his slave. You are the mental slave of a man who has been dead for a very long time. Anything he says you accept without doubt – that makes you his slave. You have defended stoning and also now slavery on this forum. You consider it an honour to be your prophets slave? How would you like to have been his slavegirl? Seriously.
By the way my fake stories all come from arabien sources.
“..to argue that Muhammed was greedy and he kept slaves, you will lose this argument easily..â€, “..to show how the westerner couldn’t say any bad thing about him, on contrary, they glorify him.â€
What exactly makes him glorious?
He had revelations that said he could have any woman he wanted, that women who refused to have sex with their husband would be damned by angels, that his own wifes were not allowed to be seen by other men and that they were not allowed to marry after his dead.
He had revelations that told people to obey him. People who didnt follow his many rules were threatend with hell – more than any other religion has ever done.
He promised his followers heaven and wealth to make sure they fought and died in his many battles which were almost all battles he himself started.
He assassinated poets who saw through his scheme and in one war he slaughtered an entire male population after they surrendered. Anyone who left his cult was to be killed.
– and finally he did keep people in slavery and married a child.
All this is not the work of a glorious man. A sociopath perhaps.
Maria as I think was one of his wives, and as I think she was an Egyptian, so I don’t know where you get she was his slave.
Look that’s what you all about, take one word and misstated and make it like fact, he didn’t make a law about the garlic, he couldn’t eat garlic before he went to pray, other wise Muslims would prohibit the garlic as the Pork.
Man seriously, you have something wrong with you, I really start to think that you are not objective in what you search about Muhammed, stop going to the Jewis web sites and read because they will mislead you.
“stop going to the Jewis web sites and read because they will mislead you.”
That made me laugh out loud, i suppose you think youve been “objective” in your search of muhammed. The fact is you really cant be objective when you study something like religion, everyone comes to the table with their own opinions and mindset. One of the biggest reasons i come to this site now is to read the crazy shit you post.
werid, it’s the same reason I come here too, it makes me feel I’m right.
“Hadhrat Maria Qibtia (ra) was presented to the Prophet (pbuh) by the ruler of Egypt.”
This sentence here I got from a muslim homepage. Not many jews use the (pbuh).
You write that Muhammed didnt make any laws about garlic eating. Fine. Is that also something you just write out of the blue?
“Man seriously, you have something wrong with you”
Well I’m not the supersticious one who think stoning has positive aspects and that slavery is honourable if the master is the right one. You are.
“I really start to think that you are not objective in what you search about Muhammed..”
I have already told you twice before. I am not searching for the good stuff. Plenty of people do that You have claimed Muhammed was a glorious man etc. I have found specific parts which indicates that he was not what he claimed to be but an imposter.
“werid, it’s the same reason I come here too, it makes me feel I’m right.”
That just prove you don’t learn from what other people write. Perhaps not even reading it.
mohamed, if you need that to make you feel right maybe you should consider another way of thinking.
Its a little unfair to take a book written 1500 years ago out of context. According to the bible (Old Testament) I can kill my wife and kids as they are my possessions. If my son talks back to me or raises his hand against me I can SMITE him.
Why all this hatred for the Koran when the bible is MUCH worse? Or do we just prefer to villify one faith over another?
By the way I was raised Catholic. Just in case you wanted to know..:)
“Its a little unfair to take a book written 1500 years ago out of context. According to the bible (Old Testament) I can kill my wife and kids as they are my possessions. If my son talks back to me or raises his hand against me I can SMITE him.
Why all this hatred for the Koran when the bible is MUCH worse? Or do we just prefer to villify one faith over another?”
One hardly knows where to begin.
Yes, in the Old Testament, such things are allowed, even mandated. But since you were raised a Catholic, I’m surprised you do not remember that the New Testament, according to Christian theology, replaced the Old Testament as the definition of human relations with god. That is why Christians for the most part do not worry about mixing two kinds of thread in cloth or about eating shellfish and do not murder their children. Of course, some few Christians do refer to the Old Testament as though it were governing (and all believe they must follow the ten commandments). So the vast majority of Christians do not believe you have a right to kill your wife and children. And that is reflected in Christian societies and countries where it is illegal to do such things, and people who do are tried and punished (if caught). This is in keeping with the old idea that you can judge a tree by its fruit.
In muslims countries, you get a whole different kind of fruit because in those countries you can kill your wife and children with impunity – it’s called “honor” killing and it is rarely punished or if it is punished, it is with a slap on the hand. Why? Because it is incorporated in their religious beliefs and texts and civil laws.
It is also true that muslims have a situation similar to the Christian OT and NT situation. It is call abrogation and it goes like this: If verses in the koran contradict each other, then the most recent verse is the governing verse. But the difference here is that while in Christianity the less violent part of the Bible replaces the more violent part, in the koran it is the opposite. The earliest verses in the koran, from when mohammed was weak and had few followers, are the peaceful ones. Once mohammed gained power, the koran became violent. And it is the later, violent verses that govern in islam.
The koran contains about twice the number of violent verses as the Bible, with the violent verses (in the koran) being the ones that must be followed, while the message of peace in the Bible is the one that Christians are to follow. So how is the Bible worse? In fact, there is another factor that demonstrates that the Bible (and Christianity) are not as bad as the koran (and islam). That is the fact that the Bible commands violence mostly against people who no longer exist (Philistines, Hittites, etc.), with the exceptions you mention above (which have been superseded by the NT).
The koran, however, commands violence against Christians, Jews, pagans, poly-theists, and all other infidels. In other words, the koran commands that people alive today must be subdued, converted, or killed. And islam goes even farther in stating that judgment day cannot come until there is a war between the muslims and the Jooos in which all the Jooos are killed. And thousands of muslims alive today believe that and are working to bring that about. You can find the evidence everywhere. You can always judge a tree by its fruit.
Of course, it is possibly true that most muslims do not believe in killing non-believers, but polls consistently show that between 50,000,000 and 100,000,000 muslims do. Prominent muslim leaders and teachers throughout the muslim world believe it and teach it. And it took only 19 muslims, acting in the name of their religion with explicit support from their religious texts, to kill more than 3000 people in one day, on September 11, 2001. And let’s not forget that Pakistan, now in the process of falling to the most violent elements of islam, has the atomic bomb, and Iran is working on their own.
So, who should we fear the most: The Vatican or islam? The answer is obvious I believe.
To Rucker
And so…
That of which is abrogated from the testamaent old,
means it’s followers were wrong although doing what they were told?
Of what is written in the bible of now or before,
Was not written in err, now that is for sure.
In the Quran you will find not such transgression,
nor in all the fighting can you find oppression.
Honor killings and murder are not in the good book,
all that is required is for you to take a look.
Perhaps it is true, some verses permit killing,
Only on other option, you’ll see if to reason you are willing.
The good men were perpetually scourged from many unjust attacks,
not allowing them even to turn even their backs.
So how is it that you are to blame,
these men who fought from honour and shame.
Nowhere in the Quran is there genocide allowed,
Quote if you dare! remembering in context I unshroud.
I write here as a jew, then christian and then lastly muslim too,
to say that nowwhere is there prejudice to either crew.
The Quran contains no predictions of what the future cries,
to say it prophecises war with jews could perhaps be lies.
I’m not sure where your poll results are from,
whether real, faux are portrayed from a friend named Tom, ;)
out of a billion of us worldwide,
you believe only 19 brought this world tide.
And although evidence proves outright otherwise,
the fact remains that most of us just want to live our lives.
Hatred festers and justice is nill,
for our alleged 19, and no proof to fill,
came thousands willing and ready to kill,
and kill they did with a murderous will.
Millions were slain in this ravenous grill…
So in this example of a gruesome fate,
I fail to see what you wish to elucidate.
The question to ask is not who to fear,
fear is irrational and based on nothing of care.
The real query is who has to most power,
who is it that has killed most in the last hour.
To that, the answer is clear, only one place has used the atomic shower…
I went to the Apostle of Allah (peace be upon him) and asked him: What do you say (command) about our wives? He replied: Give them food what you have for yourself, and clothe them by which you clothe yourself, and do not beat them, and do not revile them.
Iyas ibn Abdullah ibn AbuDhubab reported the Apostle of Allah (peace be upon him) as saying: Do not beat Allah’s handmaidens, but when Umar came to the Apostle of Allah (peace be upon him) and said: Women have become emboldened towards their husbands, he (the Prophet) gave permission to beat them. Then many women came round the family of the Apostle of Allah (peace be upon him) complaining against their husbands. So the Apostle of Allah (peace be upon him) said: Many women have gone round Muhammad’s family complaining against their husbands. They (the husbands) are not the best among you.
The Prophet (peace be upon him) said: The most perfect Muslim in the matter of faith is one who has excellent behaviour; and the best among you are those who behave best towards their wives.
As a lover of poetry, I am deeply offended by this doggerel. If you have a point somewhere in there, I am sure I have already addressed it. Except maybe what looks like it might be an attempt to say that 9/11 was an inside job (the Jooos in league with Bush) as lots of nuts seem to think. Bottom line, the millions of nonviolent muslims notwithstanding, islam is violent at core and those violent core values are held by millions of muslims. And they intend that we kaffirs do one of the 3 things that islam allows for kaffirs: convert, submit, or die.
I used to have a more tolerant attitude towards muslims, partly because i was tired of seeing them so apparently victimised by ultra-rightwing racists etc. on further inspection of the koran, i know despise islam even more than i dislike christianity and judaism.
islam is a cancer on humanities consciousness and spreads nothing but violence, sexism and bigotry on levels unseen in any other culture or religion. sure, i say fuck jesus, fuck moses and abraham, but most of all i say FUCK MOHAMMED the most of all! and you stupid moron followers who cant think for yourselves…
Plain and raw,
It swept me to the floor.
surging with power,
it destroyed my tower,
and then it forcefully tarries,
even onto history it carries,
it is a tornado rushing,
and upon ideas it is crushing,
powered by word,
how it wishes only to be heard…
But after all is done,
and the last period is won.
What reason can be seen?
On what basis did it lean?
blind hatred I see,
and jealousy for the truly free.
So I say, dear friend,
although you hate me to no end.
In your flagrant writing,
and attempts at fighting,
all I see is an opinion bit,
and let me tell you, opinion is shit.
Every now and again a woman needs a light beating to accomplish her tasks
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