Ah now this is a story that has DANGER written all over it. I can run with this story in a dozen different directions, most of which will get me hate mail :) But we are professional amateurs here so let us begin.
Ok, what do you call a person with no arms and no legs who is shaving? Nick. Well to be exact, his name is Nick Vujicic and he was born without arms and legs. Before you fire off the hate mails, you should really read the entire story. You’ll see what I mean. Now, while that would devastate the average human, it has only fueled Vujicic to better himself and countless others.
Confused yet? Allow me to explain. Nick Vujicic is a man of many trades. He is a motivational speaker, real estate investor, stock market investor and author. But most importantly, Nick is an evangelist who travels the world spreading the word of God. Now one would think that Nick would be upset with God, since he forgot to give him arms and legs. But Nick is a “the glass is half full” kind of guy. He often tells people “I stand before you today as a miracle of God.”
Now think about that for a minute. Is he really a miracle of God or just some guy that was dealt poor genes? Now whenever I see someone like this preaching the word of God, one explanation comes to mind. I think that people like Nick need to prove to others and themselves, that they are just as capable and in control of their life. The want to believe that there is a reason for their condition and they weren’t just screwed over by the man upstairs.
They say God works in mysterious way. But no matter how you slice it, Nick Vujicic is one fascinating person. He has accomplished more than many people under circumstances that would cripple most. Whether or not God has anything to do with it, you decide.
Thanks to Headline Junky once again for the story!
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August 18th, 2008 at 3:22 am
It’s wonderful that he is enjoying his life!!
???
July 13th, 2008 at 11:15 pm
I have one thing to say . . .
Yes, Nick has a physical problem, he is limbless!
You know what, every single one of us has a problem that is thousands upon thousands of times worse than that!
WE HAVE ALL SINNED!!!! (Sinning is when you do something wrong)
We all have this terrible problem, and it was because of Adam and Eve in the garden when sin first came into the world.
We need Jesus to help us with our own problem!
Nick needs Jesus to help him because of his physical problem, but he knows that he needs Jesus even more because of his SPIRITUAL problem.
Yes, God did have Nick made that way! You know what? People will listen to a man who is limbless more than a man who has limbs! God is showing His glory straight through Nick!
God can show is glory through you too! If you believe in Jesus, He can use YOU to spread His joy and His hope and His love and His peace etc. etc.! You don’t have to be ‘limbless’! You just have to be a sinner saved by grace!
June 21st, 2008 at 12:39 am
Have you seen his corporate site? You can check it out: Nick Vujicic - Life Without Limbs or Life Without Limits
May 13th, 2008 at 4:13 am
This beginning made me cringe, maybe it is a personal thing but statements like these usually will be proven false further one goes into the comments.
Yes, some people make that choice and I do not mind as for some it is necessary way to cope or it is ingrained to them by their parents so then it does not really differ so much from lack of belief.
Why would a belief in god be requirement to be a good person? That is always one of the things that seems to follow the no-condemnation clause.
And then we have the jackpot. Why did you start by saying you would not be condemning any and then make one anyway? You did not use the common fire and brimstone version of it but yet you clearly let all understand your opinion of our fates. Not very Christian is it?
You might not know it but non-believers generally know a lot of religions of various faiths. It is not as we just decided to not believe but often one comes to that conclusion due the facts we know of religions. To those conclusions one can come after examining the religions not by chance.
But can you condense the Christianity to a form all Christians agree? I seriously doubt that and that causes many of the problems. IF you are not in agreement with all the other christians why should I choose your interpretation of faith?
It would be nice to meet such a person, would it not? Sadly your blessings are quite sour as you believe one must follow Christ to be saved and you are not able to follow your closing statement in this comment.
May 12th, 2008 at 11:28 pm
“Artlady, I would suggest that you look up Pascal’s wager. It is a discussion about why the point you made here is based on a faulty premise.”
Add on to that the Scotsman fallacy.
May 12th, 2008 at 10:35 pm
Hello all,
Artlady, I would suggest that you look up Pascal’s wager. It is a discussion about why the point you made here is based on a faulty premise.
Cheers
Simon Bond
May 12th, 2008 at 6:38 pm
Hi all, just stumbled onto this site after I recieved an email about this Nick and wanted to learn a bit more about him, however my comment has nothing to do with him except that I also am Christian. I just wanted to give you something to think about… do with it what you will, no threats or condimnations from me!
Let’s say you choose to believe in God. If you choose to follow him and do your best to follow what the Bible teaches us, (and I say try your best because if you know the whole idea behind Christ you know that none of us can ever possibly hope to be free from sin and that’s the whole reason Christ died for us etc…. but that’s not what I’m here to say, sorry!) If you choose to live in that way and live your life being the best person you can be. Helping the less fortunate, not hurting others and basically just being decent, at the end of your life if my way, Christianity, is not true, what have you had but a really good life as a good person and you go out that way. However, if you choose not to believe, not to live your life for Christ and at the end you find out I was right… well, where does that leave you….? Just something to think about. Maybe take a minute to learn what Christianity is really all about. If a person is really Christian they will NEVER condem you. They may try to get you to believe, but a true Christian knows that only God can judge anyone. So whether you believe or not…I say Bless you!!
April 30th, 2008 at 3:10 pm
It tough for me to figure out exactly how to respond to completely unsupported, unilateral declaratives, like the ones found in Elisamakay’s comment. My tendency is to simply ignore them. It’s certainly the easiest.
This time, I’ll push back a little. Elisamakay: What makes you think Jesus is alive? What support do you bring to any of the statements in your comment? It takes a lot more than just stating something to have sway with free thinkers.
April 30th, 2008 at 12:31 pm
Jesus is Alive and He rules!!! wheter you like it or not, every knee WILL bow to Him and evry tounge WILL confess
Nick is a great man because he bow’s to God with or without knees
Elisa from Holland
April 4th, 2008 at 1:08 pm
I do wonder why one would assume it is hard to not believe in god as the following statement is quite common.
I find it peculiar that religious people seem to equate atheism and oftimes agnosticism as something which requires immense amount of effort. It seems to me that the effort lays on the shoulders of believers as not believing something is inaction, specially as there is nothing which would force you to change your mind.
Believing in a god on the other hand is an consious effort. There is no proof of the existence of the god and it is impossible to know if your faith has been placed on the right horse (Pascals wager) until you die.
All the proofs, which I am able to acknowledge, have been inner feelings. They have a certaintity in their mind that it is so, god exists. Such proof is personal and cannot be experienced by others.
Inner feelings are only enforced by ones own personal observations and external stimulus translated into reinforcement of the same inner feelings. Faith is therefore actively reinforcing ones inner feeling over the existence of the god. That requires action as such a feeling would diminish and wither away without nourishment.
So, I wonder why religous people are so hard trying to prove that something which cannot be determined with same way by all the people is true?
Besides if one is to follow the biblical teachings one is not saved by faith alone. No one who merely believes will be saved.
You are to do good deeds for salvation so it is hard work to be a believer. Does it tire you to know that your salvation does not lie on mere words but in deeds also? Having faith seems to require lots of external actions with constant inner reaffirmation.
Not believing on the other hand is not hard, as it is merely accepting what you sense, or are able to determine and understand in same way as others, to be existing.
April 4th, 2008 at 11:31 am
Hello Cathy,
I’m glad you went beyond the knee-jerk reaction that we are accustomed to on this post and recognized what gasmonso was actually trying to say.
Well, first, I’m not 100% sure that gasmonso identifies himself as an atheist, it’s just that most of his contributors do. Even still, I’m not sure what you mean by ‘God is everywhere around you’. Are you referring to the fact that some religions’ concept of God includes omnipresence? If so, care to offer proof or evidence of God’s omnipresence?
Or perhaps you meant to say that evidence of God is everywhere around us. If this is the case, could you describe one piece of such evidence that you find around yourself please? That way we may be better able to recognize similar evidence around ourselves.
April 4th, 2008 at 11:08 am
Hey, i understand what you’re trying to say and i think i would agree with you if i put myself in your shoes. But i think the real question shouyld be: why are you trying so hard to be an atheist when God is everywhere around you? Open your mind to what he is trying to show you. Take your time to reflect and don’t pull others away, let them be free to decide just as you have, although i’m hoping you would change. You can only get what you desire from God, just open up.
I love you.
Cathy
March 31st, 2008 at 8:27 am
Why?
Also,
It’s not sad already?
March 28th, 2008 at 10:34 pm
it would be so sad if nick would not be christian and he would be in that situation.
March 17th, 2008 at 3:35 am
Alcari,
Praise the Lord!
Dude, I got a mail from him and so have written about him.
We are sailing on the same boat and are in same court i.e. for GOD almighty our father… So Chill relax…
March 14th, 2008 at 10:14 am
“Instead of u writing on his behalf nick knows better and let him write about himself rather than u.”
If Nick Vujicic write a letter to anyone, I would be very, very impressed.
March 14th, 2008 at 7:09 am
Hi gas monsoon!
OOPs! typo error.
Have u ever asked yourself how u have been created? Or do u believe that u came from APE cos some researchers and scientists say so. Or ur leg and hands have come from the fusion of algaes in pool.??
If u see around the world many disabled can’t do their own stuffs like changing their clothes, bathing, cleaning, brushing teeth…but this guy alone does his own job using only his unformed leg, shoulder, neck sometimes mouth to grab things. Instead of posting something like above about Nick, I will suggest you to check out his vidoe of how he spents a day., understand what he is saying….
God has been really working in his life only thing is for you [unbelievers] to believe.
Out of all disabled, he is still 10 steps ahead of others above us also with god. [Luke 18:27]
Instead of u writing on his behalf nick knows better and let him write about himself rather than u.
March 11th, 2008 at 5:49 am
He is “..fearfully and wonderfully made” Psalms 139:14
..GOD made him with a purpose..and i think He’s living his life with a PURPOSE as an evangelist..;)
March 4th, 2008 at 8:08 am
“hey i saw nick in person last saturday nite and anyone who doesn’t think he is a miricle of God is badly mistaken. ”
And your basis for this statement is…?
“He is not the way he is beacuse of sin.”
No, it’s called bad luck.
“you have to hear it for yourself to belive he is a mircle of God!!!”
I did. And there was no divine intervention needed for someone to be optimistic.
March 3rd, 2008 at 3:35 pm
hey i saw nick in person last saturday nite and anyone who doesn’t think he is a miricle of God is badly mistaken. Nick is an awsome guy, just listen to his testamoney he is so encouraging, he doesnt want your pitty. He is not the way he is beacuse of sin. we all have circumstances in our life, some worse than others. Nick said if some of us came and told him about our pain , he might cry , for example, he said some people came from broken homes, he can’t imagean that pain. God made Nick this way beacuse it is a blessing, people are interested in what he has to say. it is life changing, it is encouraging, by his dvd, go listen to him talk,you have to hear it for yourself to belive he is a mircle of God!!!
February 27th, 2008 at 6:51 pm
I am sorry but this line
made me invoke the Godwin’s Law. I really am sorry but I just could not resist it anymore.
February 27th, 2008 at 5:34 pm
I’d like to expand on one of Irish’s points: the “sin causes birth defects” argument. Regardless of the fact that birth defects have a number of causes (mutation from toxins, the use of certain drugs when pregnant, or just a bad-luck combination of recessives), how in the universe does giving a child birth defects in any way make sense as a punishment? In many places, both long ago and recently, those who were physically or mentally disabled were simply discarded by their parents to die of exposure. How does that punish sin? Even in the places where we care for such individuals, how is disabling a child “punishment for sin,” when the deity in question has the option of eternal torment (i.e. “hell,” etc.)?
February 27th, 2008 at 4:02 pm
“First I don’t think for one second that “God made Nick that wayâ€. God doesn’t make people ill or give them defects…….sin does.”
So some poor kid has to get punished because someone didn’t do exactly what god told them? That god sounds like an egotistical prick, I can’t imagine anyone with a conscience actually worshiping that god.
“I have something you don’t……belief and faith in God. You can’t comprehend because you search it with your mind, but it’s not a head belief, it’s a heart belief.”
And I have the ability to rationally evaluate the world around me, not to mention my skill at being a good human being with needing the fear of some god above striking me down. By the way, your heart doesn’t do anything but pump blood through the body, if you think you get “belief” from that, go back to 5th grade science.
“I will close by saying that if I were not sure of God and His promises, I would still rather believe my way because when I come to the end of my days and find I’ve been wrong I’ve lost nothing. Praise God this won’t happen. But if I believe your ways and come to the end of my days only to find I’ve been wrong….I have lost everything, and this, my friend, IS going to happen if you keep turning away from God and believing Satans lies.”
Thats called pascal’s wager, it is significantly flawed, and has been dissected and proven false many times. Google it if you want more information on it.
February 27th, 2008 at 3:38 pm
I haven’t read all the posts here but some issues caught my eye and I felt a need to air my thoughts. I may never come back here so if you respond to my post and I don’t reply that’s probably the reason.
First I don’t think for one second that “God made Nick that way”. God doesn’t make people ill or give them defects…….sin does. God allows it just as he allows all pain and sorrow into our lives. He does this because if Christians had wonderful, fairy-tale, pain/problem free lives we would soon forget about HIM. Also, others would come to Him so they could also have pain free lives. He doesn’t want us to come to Him so we can use Him as an insurance policy against pain, He wants us to come to Him because we love Him.
We can argue science vs Bible till we’re blue in the face but we will get nowhere simply because I have something you don’t……belief and faith in God. You can’t comprehend because you search it with your mind, but it’s not a head belief, it’s a heart belief. Satan has you and he will do all he can to keep you. God wants you, and He will come to you but He will not force you to come to Him, that is totally your choice.
I will close by saying that if I were not sure of God and His promises, I would still rather believe my way because when I come to the end of my days and find I’ve been wrong I’ve lost nothing. Praise God this won’t happen. But if I believe your ways and come to the end of my days only to find I’ve been wrong….I have lost everything, and this, my friend, IS going to happen if you keep turning away from God and believing Satans lies.
February 25th, 2008 at 11:39 pm
i was so touched and amazed in nick’s life. truly he is Gods instrument, Gods voice for the youth to touched life and be an example. so that our youth will not be discouraged in every circumstances that they’ll met. when i saw ur clips on 1 of our speaker in church i realized that everything ive been through was just nothing compared to him, but yet nick chose to live in God with so much faith… god bless you nick and continue to touch lives the way you touches mine…. my prayers will always be yours….. i love you man….
February 21st, 2008 at 11:53 am
God’s actually doing some wonders in the life of Pastor Nick, as he’s popularly known here in Nigeria. The first time I watched him on TV doing a whole of things without limbs, I could not but praise God. And that strongly confirms the saying that ‘In every disability, there’s an ability’. Thank God for Pastor Nick. May he live longer and be the light to many souls who are darkened by one disability or the other.
February 13th, 2008 at 7:11 pm
“Another disgruntled atheist who’s so jealous that someone with fewer resources than he has actually influencing more people than him.”
How many of these “disgruntled” atheists do you actually know?
February 13th, 2008 at 5:26 pm
heya you are amazing i have no arms and no legs mi brother wrote this for me u are my hero i get around by a wheelchair but sometimes like you i have quite a lot of help because i am only 13 and i live with my parents and 3 brothers my brothers are called james jack and daniel they are not disabled but they help me a lot
December 6th, 2007 at 4:53 pm
god works mircles don’t underestamate what god does everyone is made from gods image nick you are a gifted when i first saw him he was on telly preaching the word of god on a sunday moring on a church progrmme (sorry i forgot the name)but nick has made me see that even if you do’t have any limbs and you are christian god put the words in your heart to reach out to those who are in pain and near suicide we are made to speak the word of god and to rejoice him nomatter what we look like.
December 2nd, 2007 at 9:28 am
Another disgruntled atheist who’s so jealous that someone with fewer resources than he has actually influencing more people than him. Someone who based his life on irrational superstitions at that. Someone without any limbs; or pot belly, receding hairline and a website to rant away dogmatically, for that matter.
Good luck on your noble quest, sir.
November 4th, 2007 at 5:26 pm
Haha, just because you can’t imagine an answer, doesn’t mean there isn’t one.
That argument doesn’t work for two reasons.
First: at the time of abortion, the fetus is about as selfaware as a rock. It cannot decide anything
Second: If you truly adhere to this, you should be impregnating every woman all the time.
After all, the egg in her and the sperm in you would also prefer to be alive, rather then not exist. I’m sure the infite number non-existant people would rather be alive then non-existant, but they don’t have any say in it, seeing how they don’t exist. Same goes for the fetus.
If you can’t figure out the difference between the rape and abortion, you REALLY need to get some education.
And to continue pointing out the obvious:
Because eagles are about to become extinct. Humans are not.
Thus, my point still stands. If an abortion would lead to happyness, why deny it?
November 4th, 2007 at 2:06 pm
alcari said: “So, again, if an abortion will turn an unhappy mother and an unhappy child (the second does not exist yet) into a happy woman, why the hell would you stop it?”
Given the option, everyone and everything chooses life over death. Even this fetus if she had a chance. Who are you to determine that she will be an unhappy child? God?
If allowing rapist and child molesters to do their thing and be happy, why the hell would you stop it? What’s the difference? Oh,the child is not born therefore it doesn’t have protection like unhatched eagle eggs do.
Why do we protect the unborn egg of an eagle but not the egg of the human? We are becoming EXACTLY what the bible said we would. Wrong will become right and right will become wrong.
I know you don’t have answers to the questions I asked here so I won’t expect any.
November 3rd, 2007 at 5:30 pm
bois, first of all, abortions are done before the fetud develops a nervous sytem, so it doesn’t feel a thing.
For your convenience, the word “suffering” has been replaced by “unhappy” to rmove the biblical tone.
Second, If the mother will not be happy with, or incapable of the supporting the future child, why should she be forced to give birth if it will only lead to two unhappy people?
Abortion is EXACTLY the same as birth control, it’s stopping a child from ever being made in the first place. So, again, if an abortion will turn an unhappy mother and an unhappy child (the second does not exist yet) into a happy woman, why the hell would you stop it?
Or does god want woman to give birth, even if they don’t want the child? that’s one wway of getting people in church.
November 2nd, 2007 at 6:09 am
Bois8726,
At what point in a pregnancy (months), do you think a fetus has a developed and functioning brain and nervous system?
Furthermore, what has been the nature of your “work with anyone who is associated with abortions”. Has it required any medical expertise on your part, and do you have such medical expertise? Your graphic descriptions of what you perceive an abortion to be don’t reflect that.
You seem to not understand the matters being discussed, which is typical of your history here, as already noted several times such as here.
The house of cards that is religion can only persist in an environment of ignorance and closure to critical examination, which is also one aspect of why religious freaks are so opposed to public, fact-based education on topics such as evolution and abortion.
November 2nd, 2007 at 12:29 am
Alcari said… If an abortion can prevent a huge ammount of suffering on both mother and child, shouldn’t it be done?
Thank you for this question , that’s all.
November 1st, 2007 at 3:52 pm
alcari said: “It’s about suffering of mother and child.” while referring to abortion. Once again you’re kidding, right? Where do you come up with this and where is your reasoning? Anybody that has ever worked with anyone who is associated with abortions (which I have) will tell you that 99% are done for the purpose of birth control. And if you don’t believe that then you are so far “out there” that you may never make it back. And suffering? How would you like to have someone poke scissors into the top of your head and suck your brains out? You wouldn’t even do that to a dog I would hope, but it happens to babys all the time.
Please explain the suffering mom and child reasoning. I’m just too curious to hear this one.
November 1st, 2007 at 3:05 pm
You people just don’t get it do you?
The argument about abortion isn’t about some obscure reference is an archaic book. It’s about suffering of mother and child. Even Christians must agree that that is what really matters isn’t it?
If an abortion can prevent a huge ammount of suffering on both mother and child, shouldn’t it be done?
November 1st, 2007 at 2:46 pm
“Korgan Says:
November 1st, 2007 at 10:48 am
What, as opposed to your own senseless preaching?”
I can see where it would be senseless to the senseless. Matter of fact, I’d expect it to be.
November 1st, 2007 at 10:48 am
What, as opposed to your own senseless preaching?
November 1st, 2007 at 8:00 am
Michael,
It’s one of my neice’s church. I just thought this sermon was appropriate at this time.
November 1st, 2007 at 1:59 am
bios, is this your church or just for listening pleasure?
October 31st, 2007 at 10:43 pm
http://religiousfreaks.com/2007/02/06/nick-vujicic-a-miracle-of-god/comment-page-2/#comment-97425
October 31st, 2007 at 9:38 pm
http://media.gsfbc.org/sermons/20071021AM.wma
October 30th, 2007 at 7:42 am
Do not know where that version comes from (must be some apologetic version) but it is flawed intepretation.
The text is quite clear that if woman dies due the altercation then the husband is entitled to the ‘eye for an eye’ punishment but if no harm comes to the woman then the issue is merely monetary/punishable. Husband is entitled to demand some compensation but only up to a value the judges deem fit.
There is no protection for the fetus in those verses, death of one is not comparable to a death of a woman.
October 30th, 2007 at 12:46 am
I stand, i mean sitting here(i just made a joke with that comment) and type this now… i give the glory to my Father in Heaven. Whosoever, believeth on his son, by faith, you shall be saved and life eternal.
Jag you said,
“Do not really know what you are trying to say but bible”
I apologize, i was sharing my feelings with you guys. I believe that life, my friend begins when you obey your parents… jump ahead now and that sperm and egg are joined together as ONE… boooommmm, you have the big bang theory… on a side note, i think that person had something in mind;) The big bang was a man’s idea, right?
Please Aclari, don’t get excited man:) relax dude!
that’s my theory.
When they come together you have that love! yes that love you have for each other and that love you joined together as ONE, life is born. Jag, you give me scripture because you are seeking HIM. I’ll stand with you. I tell you right now, that God loves you!
Jag, thanks for helping me out seek out more scripture. I looked up this scripture in my study bible. Jag, my friend, you are mistaken about this. verse (23)
if there was serious injury to the mother or the child, then the offending party had to apy according to the law of retaliation(we have laws for this, even now) If death resulted to the mother or the child, then the perpetrator was found guilty of murder and had to pay with his life.
the fetus, the unborn child is viewed here as a human being and is considered murder.
I tell you as a believer in My Lord & Saviour Christ Jesus, that God LOVES the UNBORN and we need protect them that can’t protect themselves.
Please Jag, will you stand with me?
Jag posted…
Exodus 21:22-23
If men strive, and hurt a woman with child, so that her fruit depart from her, and yet no mischief follow: he shall be surely punished, according as the woman’s husband will lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges determine. (23) And if any mischief follow, then thou shalt give life for life.
Jag, this is so cool you used this verse.. the word judges is there… the offending party will be judged.
Can i give you this verse guys, i hope you read it, before you feed me to the lions…
And I say unto you my friends, Be not afraid of them that kill the body, and after that have no more that they can do.
But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him.
Are not five sparrows sold for two farthings, and not one of them is forgotten before God?
But even the very hairs of your head are all numbered. Fear not therefore: ye are of more value than many sparrows.
Also I say unto you, Whosoever shall confess me before men, him shall the Son of man also confess before the angels of God:
But he that denieth me before men shall be denied before the angels of God.
October 29th, 2007 at 8:53 pm
@Michael Hyrocket
Do not really know what you are trying to say but bible does not agree with the claim of fetus being alive. Exodus 21:22-23
in fact children under the age of one month are worth nothing according to bible, where it defines the value of human life, Leviticus 27:6. Females being half the value of a man. (Anyone honestly surprised about it?)
so, it really seems peculiar when religious people go against the teachings of the bible. Now, this is often countered that it was applicable at that time only and is no longer valid. I have no trouble with that as long as they denounce all of the no longer applicable parts.
October 29th, 2007 at 7:46 pm
LOL you guys, i did not use quotes because i was pondering them in my head. thanks again, i knew you won’t let me down! Spoken in truth about our society now…
“The fetus at the time of abortion is about as alive as those”. ” sperm and egg come together, a kid”
Well said… my friends, i cry for them. the fetus you say is ancient arguments. Oh my friend, they are a life to me, this is my feelings and i thank you for showing me what they mean to you.
It is a beautiful thing, when a sperm and egg come together… when person does not want a baby, it is nothing, but when a couple or just one parent want a child, it is something. is it lucky, when this child smiles and say’s i love you mommy or i love you daddy?
is what i say up for debate again? i really don’t mind because you help meditate on scripture. thanks guys!
For BIOS ONLY- EVERYONE STOP READING!
I will praise thee; for I am fearfully amd wonderfully made: marvellous are thy works; and that my soul knoweth right well.
For our heart shall rejoice in him, because we have trusted in his holy name
October 29th, 2007 at 10:21 am
“Who will stand for these kids who can defend themselves and grow like you to be agnostics and atheist.”
The problem is when do you consider a combination of a sperm and egg suddenly a “kid” and untouchable? Now i don’t agree with any abortions after the second trimester, once the fetus can feel pain it gets pretty touchy.
This may seem of the topic, but one thing that is a major obstacle for religious people to understand is that WE ARE NO DIFFERENT FROM OTHER ORGANISMS ON THIS PLANET, we are just lucky that most of us are smart enough to have an advantage over all the other creatures.
October 29th, 2007 at 10:10 am
“When you accept Christ Jesus as Lord and Saviour… He does not want you to stop thinking or learning.”
I have heard this said more than a few times. My response is simple, “Maybe Jesus doesnt what us to stop thinking, but every form of organized religion wants you to.”
October 29th, 2007 at 3:44 am
First off, people, can we please all use to quote properly? Please use Blockquote and /Blockquote (put them in between ‘lesser then’ and ‘greater then’ mark)
Or at least use a seperate paragraph.
ahhh, two ancient arguments, even if they’re improperly worded, you can see them coming from miles. A little other forray into abortion then, before we get back on topic.
Do you love your nail clippings as well? If you cut your finger, do you lovingly cuddle the blood that flows? The fetus at the time of abortion is about as alive as those.
The other one, “abortion might kill the next mozart/einstein” is equally invallid. If you’re not impregnating a woman right now, you might also be killing the next mozart.
now, let’s wait for bois to ignore half my points, and twist the other half into arguments he has something to counter with.
October 29th, 2007 at 12:59 am
Oh, my heart cries for these kids who are aborted for whatever reason’s.
Have we surpassed our morality of knowledge as humans? If God was all powerful why did he have to kill his son to save us?
If a man and women have sex and have a child by accident and abort this child… why does this child have to die?
it is just a fetus… Can i read this for you guys, in Psalm 139:14
I will praise thee; for I am fearfully amd wonderfully made: marvellous are thy works; and that my soul knoweth right well.
When you accept Christ Jesus as Lord and Saviour… He does not want you to stop thinking or learning. He encourages you to use your mind and explore the world. Why would God stop you from knowing his creation by stopping your knowledge that he fashioned from the begining?
His teachings are all questions in building character in you.
God loves those fetus and so do i.
Guys, I am grateful for your parents, for they wanted you and now I am here talking to you. Praise God for parents that love you.
Who will stand for these kids who can defend themselves and grow like you to be agnostics and atheist.
This are feelings and i just wanted to share this with you.
Below are just comments I paste and copied for Korgan:)and you can stop reading now.
“Why is it not murder if a doctor kills a fetus who’s head has cleared the vigina but it is murder if they kill the fetus once their feet have cleared the vigina?â€
Ahh, more ignorance that need curing.
Abortions are done prior to the 12th week, by which time the fetus is this big
has no brain, developed organs or funtioning nervous system. Now, tell me again, is it better to remove this fetus/embryo and have the mother live a happy life, or is it better to give birth and have both the mother and child suffer because of whatever reason they can’t have the abortion.
October 28th, 2007 at 9:28 pm
Howdy all,
bois8726,
“Abortion is murder. If a fetus is just a blob of cells, then aren’t our nursing home beds full of blobs of cells since they can’t function on their own?”
I again find myself disturbed by your statement. For a similar reason to why I was disturbed by a comment you made earlier:
“I guess you think pedophilia is a right too? Is it ok for two 12 year olds to have sex? How about 6 year olds? How about you (assuming you’re an adult) and your 4 year old daughter? If you were dictator, somewhere in here you’d have to draw the line. Where would it be?â€
I truly hope that you understnad the difference between a fetus and an ederly person, particularly in this context. I believe I understand the parrallel you are trying to draw. The fact that you tried to draw on this parrallel however suggests to me that you have a profound lack of understanding of the issues involved in the abortion debate. The rest of your statement:
“Why is it not murder if a doctor kills a fetus who’s head has cleared the vigina but it is murder if they kill the fetus once their feet have cleared the vigina?”
only reinforces (to me) your lack of understanding of the issues related to the abortion debate. Your argument here show a large gap in your understanding of what abortion actually entails. I have heard similar statements before, usually from people who consider themselves Christians reapeting what they have heard at church or from other Christians without investigating the issues fully before forming an opinion. If you did understand the full process behind abortion I believe you would see why this argument is without merit and fails to address the real issues involved. Previously you made the following comments on this forum:
“I believe you are someone who is totally gullible to what you’ve seen on TV or read or heard from liberal teachers but are oblivious to the reality that you’ve lived.”
“They are the result of what my eyes have seen, my ears have heard and my heart has felt, not through TV or sermons or books or newspapers but my personal experiences.”
Yet your latest post seems to be merely old rhetoric from early christian arguments against abortion. If you truly cared about the issue I would have hoped someone who professes to abide by the above statements, would have put some effort into investigating the validity of these arguments before subscribing to them. Instead you seem to have accepted them at face value even though that contradicts the statements I have shown above. You accuse other Christians of the following:
“They are more pretenders. Simply put, “they talk the talk but don’t walk the walkâ€. In other words, hypocrites.”
Yet your posts seem to demonstrate to me a level of hypocrisy that equal those you accuse of being pretenders.
“You forget the first rule of debating. Whomever starts the “name callingâ€, i.e. “Religious nutcasesâ€, “plainly a load of crapâ€, loses the debate. Very typical of liberal democrats.”
After rereading through the posts I once again find a sense of irony in your comment here. I would suggest you read through the posts again before posting a an opinion like this. Other than seeming to be largely without merit it would appear to demonstrate your very onsided view of this debate.
“Lame, lame, lame. I’m trying to help you find the answers to everything you have questions or doubts about. Have you ever asked yourself the questions I ask you? Ask yourself, “Why do I want to hurt people? Why am I paranoid to think that Christians are out to get me?”
Once again you are taking something and making assumptions about or twisting what it means. I don’t want to hurt people and I don’t believe that Christians are out to get me. Once again you either do not understand the points made or you are trying to twist, beyond recongition the words other people have made in defence of their opinion. This doesn’t seem to support your arguments at all. I am not sure what you hopt to achieve by this or if it is merely a demonstration of you lack of comprehension of what people are trying to explain to you.
Cheers
Simon Bond
October 28th, 2007 at 4:30 pm
in reverse order:
Ahh, that’s not how science works, the idea is that you provide proof first. So, links please?
I suggest you do some reading up on Evolution, you clearly don’t understand it. I don’t feel very obligated to discuss evulotion with someone who clearly hasn’t even grasped it’s most basic beginnings.
to my question about evolution/creationism:
Yes, if it’s the observable thruth.
Excuse me? you would prefer keeping people dumb over education? How very christian of you. The main difference between the two is that evolution is a scientific theory, supported by millions of pieces of evidence, observable to all who’ve got eyes, backed up by dozens of years research. Whereas creationism is an undisprovable, unsupported belief, which violates the bastic laws of physics, and is rendered completely obsolete.
Ahh, more ignorance that need curing.
Abortions are done prior to the 12th week, by which time the fetus is this big
|————————————–|
has no brain, developed organs or funtioning nervous system. Now, tell me again, is it better to remove this fetus/embryo and have the mother live a happy life, or is it better to give birth and have both the mother and child suffer because of whatever reason they can’t have the abortion. I’d love to carry on this discussion elsewhere, since it’s besides the point at the moment.
most stemcells (and all the interesting ones) are harvested from unborn fetusses. So your two points seems to contradict themselves. And, just to point out, the fact that it’s OK by you, does not make it acceptable by the general dogma of your church.
Try using google, go for word like Vatican, Condom, Aids, Pope, Christian.
Ahh yes, because all charities are christian right? I’ll dare say that most charities aren’t based in christianity (Red cross, unicef, Flying doctors etc. etc.) So, I would say that Humanity does a lot of good, Christianity does a lot of bad.
Whereas christian beliefs have hurt far more people (see condom and abortion thing) then atheist “beliefs”
October 28th, 2007 at 8:39 am
@bois8726
How about you iterate your deal in a concise form. Just the base points and nothing more.
October 27th, 2007 at 4:46 pm
@bois
man i love your numbers… 90% of parents dont want evolution. 99.9% good, .1% bad. i remember watching on of the xtian tv channels. there was some sort of a commercial that claimed that wherever evolution is thought, crime amongst teenagers is rampant, blissfuly ignoring europe as an example. that is the same kind of self-delusion that you suffer under bois.
October 26th, 2007 at 4:04 pm
Oh how predictable you have become.
You’re right that I have been “…..pleading repeatedly for your case.” but totally wrong about having my positions dismantled. How can they be dismantled when you won’t respond to them? Is that the old “ignore ‘em and maybe they will go away” trick? LOL. Obviously, in all honestly, I know why you won’t respond to them and it’s because you have no response, peroid. So you once again are doing the typical and predictible, and that is to try and change the subject. Again, Satan must be very proud because whether you know it or not (and I believe you do), you are doing his work. However, I am very confident you will come around, most do. Practically all do if they make it to their “death bed”. Oh, you want to explain that? Or pretend it’s not true? Just remember the clock is ticking.
October 26th, 2007 at 3:53 pm
What deal it is? In a short and concise form if you please as the long winded posts are like from the handbook of obfuscation for the dummies.
October 26th, 2007 at 1:41 pm
bois8726,
A reasonable summary of your remaining position is that having had all your positions thoroughly dismantled, you are now reduced to pleading repeatedly for your case. That also has no validity.
October 26th, 2007 at 1:28 pm
Korgan: Once again, you totally ignore the issues that YOU brought up. Why do you focus on .1% of some bad you think Christians do and ignore the 99.9% they do that’s good for all mankind? Why do you ignore the question about the murder of a fetus at the head being abortion but at the feet it’s murder? The belief in evolution as it applies to the beginning of mankind IS a religion. That’s what religion is, our purpose for being. Why is it necessary to teach that when 90% of parents, those paying for education, don’t want it taught. The parents want to be the ones to tell their children about these beliefs. Are we being ruled by a dictator or something? By the way, I don’t deny evolution, just the part about our origins, which is also denied by many scientist.
Your comments about the “deal” are hilarious. If I may, I’d like to share them with some of my work collegues. You remind me of when my daughter was young and got a splinter in her finger. She screamed and cried and fought us in everyway possible to remove it even though we all knew it was in her best interest. We repeatedly told her that if she would only relax and trust us for a moment it would all be ok very soon. Nothing we could say or do would help. Only after we backed off and she finally realized, even as a child, that the pain would only get worse if it weren’t taken care of, did she finally calm down and gave in to our pleas. Within moments she was smiling. Trust me, you can smile too. Shall I back off?
October 26th, 2007 at 11:10 am
bois8726,
The deal that you are offering us is in fact no deal at all. What you are proposing is that we suspend reason and logic, so as to accept your particular superstition. There is no “deal” that will cause a valid logical conclusion to suddenly become invalid. Not now, not ever, and not for any price. Nor will your pleading make your myth any more valid.
Furthermore, in your suggestion that we should try on your belief, lest we risk not being “saved”, you are again invoking Pascal’s wager, which has already been proferred and then countered here ad nauseum. I have already been saved, saved by my own faculties from your religious fallacies.
You say that the clock is ticking. Indeed, it ticks for you also, and from what you have indicated, you are well past middle age, so you have far fewer ticks left.
Rather than go on with your remonstrations that we ought to take up your obviously flawed belief system, and in doing so deal away reason, perhaps you should yourself reflect on the arguments already presented here. Hopefully, in not too much more time, you will drop this hurtful myth called Christianity so as not to waste your remaining time on it.
Your ongoing denial of evolution, for which there is now overwhelming evidence, and your suggestion that the science of evolution should not be taught in science class, is just one more Christian evil that you persist in. It is evil because it prevents children from reasoning and from developing their reasoning skills. Fortunately, the Kansas school board and others do inevitably have to face the evidence publicly.
October 26th, 2007 at 9:23 am
alcari and korgan:
If you’re not willing to do what I asked and almost begged you to try, then let’s just drop it. Otherwise, it’s IMPOSSIBLE for you to understand, at least during this lifetime. But by doing that, you’ll have total understanding (don’t get that confused with knowing everything). It’s a promise made from God himself and me and the millions of other Christians are living proof. I’m willing to try what you ask as long as it’s safe and legal. Deal or no deal? The clock is running.
Alcari, I’ve noticed on several occasions that you use the “Let’s leave that out of this discussin” as an answer. You have to admit that don’t you?
To answer your questions:
“So, you’re saying that the Christian community is not trying to get schools to teach creationism as science?”
Only as an alternative to the “theory” of evolution being taught. No, would you want schools to teach your kids anything 180 degrees from what you the parent teaches them at home? Christians would prefer that neither were in school and the origins of man whether you’re Christian or athiest be the parent’s decision.
“that they are perfectly OK with abortions and stemcell research?” Abortion is murder. If a fetus is just a blob of cells, then aren’t our nursing home beds full of blobs of cells since they can’t function on their own? Why is it not murder if a doctor kills a fetus who’s head has cleared the vigina but it is murder if they kill the fetus once their feet have cleared the vigina? Stemcell research is fine with me and everyone Christian I know as long as it’s not done on a murdered person for that purpose.
“To take it a step further, are you also saying that christians are not opposing condom use to stop AIDS?” I’m sorry, I’ve never heard this one before and I can’t imagine why Christians would be opposed to this unless of course it was using my money or something to do this. So ?????? on this one.
“Now, try saying again that Christians are not having a negative influence on the lifes of others.” Ready? Christianity is not having a negative influence on the lives of others. How’s that? Some Christians may and do take it upon themselves to do things that Christianity wouldn’t do and it does hurt Christianity. But man, can you honestly say in light of all Christianity does around the world to feed the hungry, provide medicine and medical personal to those in countrys that are in a hopeless state, donate millions to those (even non-Christians) who are in need whether by choice or as a result of disaster (every Christian church I know was involved in one way or another in providing help for those affected by Katrina, and you’ll see the same in So Cal after the fires are out), etc., etc., etc. And all of this is done in the name of Jesus Christ. No personal gain whether by some recognition or monetary gain is wanted in return. Why do you totally ignore all of this that affects millions if not billions of people in a positive way and replace it with what appears to be a few Christians who oppose condem use? WOW! So very shallow of you. It just further amplifies the fact that you have a hatred down in side that is totally unjustified and at this point in your life you aren’t willing to set it aside. Satan must be proud.
October 26th, 2007 at 5:17 am
let’s leave your lack of understanding of the laws of physics out of this shall we? Besides, you’ve completely missed the point of that whole post. The whole idea was that religion is diametrically opposed to the increase of knowledge and understanding of the universe. I ask that you please stop trying to twist my words into something you do know a counter argument to, even if it is a weak one.
So, you’re saying that the Christian community is not trying to get schools to teach creationism as science? that they are perfectly OK with abortions and stemcell research? To take it a step further, are you also saying that christians are not opposing condom use to stop AIDS? Now, try saying again that Christians are not having a negative influence on the lifes of others.
Hmm, can you quote me the line where he said that? because I seem to miss that everytime i read his post.
But, you are right of course, lets not forget that Christians are the Ubermensch, and that everything they do is far superior to us….
Please, go back and read Simon’s post 223, it holds a great deal more wisdom then anything you’ve said.
October 25th, 2007 at 11:05 pm
No, Boi. The reason that shows your religion to be nonsense is time-invariant.
October 25th, 2007 at 8:07 pm
Korgan: Finally you said it. You’ve just given proof to any reasonable person that your comments are based totally on nonsense. No honest person on the face of this earth would make a statement that insinuates that Christianity is the most dangerous religion, unless of course you are a muslim.
Finally, as I’ve expected on occasion, you just simply want to argue. You would argue that green is red I bet. I must admit though, that you had me going a time or two.
Hang in there, you’ll find the truth IF you search for it. I’ll be hoping and praying that you look for it. Take care brother. Gosh, I can’t believe I let you trick me for so long…lol.
October 25th, 2007 at 3:18 pm
bois8726
Again, you present yourself and your thinking as more advanced than mine, as if it is something that I will reach or have to look forward to. That is the same old positioning of yourself and your religion as high and mighty. It is insulting, unjustified, and I reject it utterly.
Reason and evidence are more than sufficient to reject your religion as nonsense, but furthermore, I reject the immorality, the backwardness, and the evil that Christianity has wrought recently and through the ages.
As I already have said, I look forward to the day that most of humanity rejects all religion, and especially Christianity, for the superstition that it is. Now that is really something to look forward to.
October 25th, 2007 at 3:05 pm
Korgan: You are such an excellent mind reader.
You said, “What you are offering as a guarantee is really just a tautology, and I don’t think it has any merit. The substance of what you are saying in post 238 can be distilled down to “if you were me, you would do as I doâ€, but snurp and I clearly are not you and have clearly reached different conclusions about the world around us, based on our own reasoning.”
Lame, lame, lame. I’m trying to help you find the answers to everything you have questions or doubts about. Have you ever asked yourself the questions I ask you? Ask yourself, “Why do I want to hurt people? Why am I paranoid to think that Christians are out to get me? I say it over and over but yet I have no examples or foundation other than from others that say the same thing. If what bois is saying is correct, why wouldn’t I want that? Why would I not at least try it? What possible harm could it do? If he’s correct and I’m not all knowing as I currently believe will it shame me in some way around my friends? Why do I not want to know the truth? and why am i talking to myself?” (Just kidding on that last one).
I know you most likely will respond with “This is nothing more than a (insert a 4 syllable word here).”
Try it. You have absolutely nothing to lose and everything to gain. Nothing to fear.
I know you said you had reached your conclusions, I’ve been there done that too. Thankfully those conclusions are not final. I know you’ll understand eventually and that gives me great hope.
October 25th, 2007 at 12:34 pm
bois8726
What you are offering as a guarantee is really just a tautology, and I don’t think it has any merit. The substance of what you are saying in post 238 can be distilled down to “if you were me, you would do as I do”, but snurp and I clearly are not you and have clearly reached different conclusions about the world around us, based on our own reasoning.
October 25th, 2007 at 11:28 am
snurp and others: The only proof I have to offer would not be proof to you. However it is more than proof to me and others who have been given the gift from God through Jesus’s sacrifice. It’s impossible to explain it to others, especially to those who fight it with every breath. The ONLY way it will be proven to you is (1.) If you do what I suggested earlier about asking (with an open heart) Jesus to come into your heart, or (2.) You die without Jesus. If you REALLY want the answers, do step 1 above. I guarantee you will be taking my place in the debate here. Guaranteed! Then you will know and totally understand what I’m saying, but, be warned, you will be attacked by others on here. You’ll be put in the “nutcase” catagory. But, you will take it as encouragement because it fulfills Gods words and you will know that you have been chosen. Then you’ll have the opportunity to “pay it forward”.
October 25th, 2007 at 11:09 am
Going in a slightly different vein than Korgan, allow me to generalize and hopefully clear up my last statement:
“We’re right. Our God is the real one. His/her/its/their story is the real one. Every other God story is wrong.”
If you could back up your particular God story (I’m not trying to use ’story’ in a derogative sense) and explain why it’s right and the others are wrong, then please do. Otherwise you’re in the same spot as all the others. And no, “The Bible says so” does not count. The other religions’ particular texts/stories make the same kind of claim.
October 25th, 2007 at 11:03 am
Korgan: My fault. I assumed you knew I was talking about God (as in our creator) and not gods. Very big difference.
October 25th, 2007 at 10:43 am
Regarding posts 232-234, the claim that “Only Christianity is totally based on God and Him coming to live amongst us.” is easily shown to be false. In fact, many religious myths make similar claims. For a few examples out of many, the Hindu god Ram is purported to have lived and acted among humans, the Torah mentions god among humans before Christianity did, and a vast number of Greek gods of myth purportedly lived among and consorted with humans.
Christianity is only distinct from other mythologies in the details of its particular myths.
October 25th, 2007 at 9:13 am
snurp: You’re wrong. Only Christianity makes that claim.
October 25th, 2007 at 8:24 am
“And to compare Christianity to other religions is way out there. All other religions are based on prophets and or other human beings or idols. Only Christianity is totally based on God and Him coming to live amongst us.”
That’s what they all say.
October 24th, 2007 at 10:17 pm
alcari: You forget the first rule of debating. Whomever starts the “name calling”, i.e. “Religious nutcases”, “plainly a load of crap”, loses the debate. Very typical of liberal democrats.
Ok, so the river came from the lake, and the lake came from the rain, and the rain came from the clouds, and the clouds came from rising heat, moisture, terrain, etc. and the heat came from the sun, and moisture from evaporation, and the sun came from an explosion and the explosion from gases and gases from……………somewhere along the line, something was created. To say it can all be explained in science is just bone headed. Nothing in science or anyones life experiences teaches or proves that something came from nothing.
I’ve said this before but it warrants another visit, WHO, pray tell has tried to FORCE you to believe anything? It’s IMPOSSIBLE to MAKE anyone believe something they don’t believe. I don’t believe that even you would have wanted your mother to believe that you as a fetus were just a clump of cells. Tell me please who has tried to force religous beliefs on you and I personaly will let them know that they are not doing Christianity any benefit, quite the contrary.
At this point in your life, you have chosen to put your faith in people. You’re not alone by any means. You are mentioned in the bible and therefore not a surprise to any Christian.
And to compare Christianity to other religions is way out there. All other religions are based on prophets and or other human beings or idols. Only Christianity is totally based on God and Him coming to live amongst us.
No one is trying to force you to become a Christian. Get over that idea. If you truly believe that Christians are doing that, then that totally explains why you say what you say, paranoia. Only problem is, it ain’t true. Get rid of that chip on your shoulder and you won’t be so angry. I’ve said before that I’ll guarantee you what will happen if you take the simple steps I explained to you before. I stand by that. Think simple and it might help you. Let’s make a deal. You try what I described and I’ll try whatever you think I should do to better understand what you are saying. Your life will FOREVER be changed, for the better. God promised. Deal? Please answer these questions. What possible good would it do to FORCE you to believe? Who would benefit from that if it could even be done? It is TOTALLY illogical.
October 24th, 2007 at 4:14 am
Wow Micheal, you have a rare skill there, being able to type up so much text, with so little meaning. Really, i’ve rarely seen so little being said with so many words. I’ll respond to a few points though.
Ahh, if you’re looking for that answer you will fail. You need to look at the bigger picture, instead of small thing like the one you’re pointing out.
The problem is, at the moment, not with the single semi-fictional person named Jesus. The problem is with the intire Christian (substitue with almost any other religion) doctrine of forcing people to accept what is told instead of thinking for themselves and coming to their solutions for a problem. The problem is that saying “God made it that way” is an active discouragement of finding out new things.
You’re even doing it yourself. You’re constantly pointing to the bible and telling us to accept it all on authority, sketchy authority at that, without any proof whatsoever.
A few consequences of this can easily be imagined. If People had just accepted all disease, say ebola, small pox, measels, as a sign from god, A lot more of us would be dieing young.
Take it further back. If we had simply accept that the river was a gift from god(s) we would have never wandered off to find the lake it flows from.
And a modern example, Religious nutcases are trying to stop stemcell research, which can help cure a plethora of diseases, because they believe god thinks it’s wrong to experiment on clumps of cells, which might one day be people.
Second problem with religion: is that is so plainly a load of crap. All religions claim theirs is is the “one true path” Even though the evolution from older religions is plain to anyone who has eyes and is willing to look (Example: zarathustrianism)
Third problem: The universe can be perfectly explained without deific intervention. Why then introduce a god? (See: Occams Razor)
Fourth problem is really simple. Utter and complete lack of evedence (See: Russel’s teapot)
October 23rd, 2007 at 10:48 pm
Umm yeah, err good, logical argument you got there. Sharp one you are. *backs away slowly*
October 18th, 2007 at 7:48 pm
michael…”i say this not to offend anyone, for they are not believers in Christ Jesus.”
Jag…And you made this decision and judgement because we did not agree with your view of your god. It is true that I have been an agnostic from a very young age, who who keeps leaning towards the teachings of Simon Magus.
But these statements, which are so prevalent in born again circles, are used to condemn people. I find it really annoying. Do you not believe in the commandments Exodus 20:16?
20:16 Thou shalt not bear false witness.
Or even the writings of Luke 3:14, who you borrowed?
3:14 Do violence to no man, neither accuse any falsely.
Clearly, you are not in a position to make statements about the faith of others when your faith is based on not following what you preach.
My brothers and sisters… we need to learn something from Simon Bond and Jagannath.
… did i judge you Jag? can we learn from you?
they speak of the truth that they have experience in there worldly view.
… did i judge correctly? i can relate to your belief because you speak the truth as an agnostic.
i say this not to offend anyone, for they are not believers in Christ Jesus. The truth we have is in Christ Jesus, the Son of God.
The path you take is different from the one i/we follow. I am thankful that my brothers and sisters were not offended of what i said… looks like you are offended of what i said, that you speak the truth and you are not a believer… i apologize for agreeing on what you believe.
Jag. you did not understand because in your heart, you my friend have decided to continue to attack me for addressing my bro. & sis.
JAG.said, By stating that you are prepared to be judged is once more a prime example of the sin called pride which so many people with personal relationship with G-d seem to fall into.It begs to question, with who you really have a personal relationship with as Acts 13:10 states
13:10 And said, O full of all subtilty and all mischief, thou child of the devil, thou enemy of all righteousness, wilt thou not cease to pervert the right ways of the Lord?
JAG… Amen for this verse, but let me add more for you. JAG, all i want is to give you hope, i have walked your walked my friend. Be filled with the Spirit of God. My friend you too will be like Saul and see the truth that is in the LORD. JAG. God loves you and he is calling your name.
JAG… Acts 3:8-12
But Elymas the sorcerer (for so is his name by interpretation) withstood them, seeking to turn away the deputy from the faith.Then Saul, (who also [is called] Paul,) filled with the Holy Ghost, set his eyes on him, And said, O full of all subtilty and all mischief, [thou] child of the devil, [thou] enemy of all righteousness, wilt thou not cease to pervert the right ways of the Lord? And now, behold, the hand of the Lord is upon thee, and thou shalt be blind, not seeing the sun for a season. And immediately there fell on him a mist and a darkness; and he went about seeking some to lead him by the hand.Then the deputy, when he saw what was done, believed, being astonished at the doctrine of the Lord.
JAG. said, But these statements, which are so prevalent in born again circles, are used to condemn people. I find it really annoying. Do you not believe in the commandments Exodus 20:16?
20:16 Thou shalt not bear false witness.
Jag, i understand your annoyance, and i wanted to show you through the Holy Spirit of God, his words. I was blind like Saul but, now i see what Saul sees through the Holy Spirit and like the Deputy, i too believed, being astonished at the doctrine of the Lord.
JAG. said, you seem to pick only divisive and detrimental meanings as basis for your faith.
Jesus, has showed me through his teachings what is of God and not of God. He has shown to me the life i lived as a non-believer to a believer. People like you have drawn to me to try and understand why Jesus is so hated?! that is why i said that you speak the truth about the world because i know the truth that is in that and the LIFE that is the TRUTH in Christ Jesus.
Oh my Father, cannot thank you enough for this hope i have that is in your Son Christ Jesus. The world calls me a fool and strange and i give thanks for that… for i know the truth in your Son. My friend Jagannath is right that “we all are sinners and thus unworthy to judge others, judgement is reserved only to the G-d”.
My Father, i left them up to you that your light will shine on them, that the understanding they seek is in you, alone… please, open their eyes, i humbly ask.
I give you the glory my Father in heaven. Amen
October 18th, 2007 at 9:24 am
Hello all. I ran across this today and thought it might do us all some good. Just a little humor. Enjoy.
An atheist was walking through the woods.
‘What majestic trees’!
‘What powerful rivers’!
‘What beautiful animals’!
He said to himself.
As he was walking alongside the river, he heard a rustling in the bushes behind him. He turned to look. He saw a 7-foot grizzly charge towards him. He ran as fast as he could up the path. He looked over his shoulder & saw that the bear was closing
In on him.
He looked over his shoulder again, &the bear was even closer. He tripped &fell on the ground. He rolled over to pick himself up but saw that the bear was right on top of him, reaching for him with his left paw &raising his right paw to strike him. At that instant the Atheist cried out, ‘Oh my God!’
Time Stopped.
The bear froze.
The forest was silent.
As a bright light shone upon the man, a voice came out of the sky. ‘You deny my existence for all these years, teach others I don’t exist and even credit creation to cosmic accident.’ ‘Do you expect me to help you out of this predicament? Am I to count you as a believer’?
The atheist looked directly into the light, ‘It would be hypocritical of me to suddenly ask You to treat me as a Christian now, but perhaps You could make the BEAR a Christian’?
‘Very Well,’ said the voice.
The light went out. The sounds of the forest resumed. And the bear dropped his right paw, brought both paws together, bowed his head &spoke:
‘Lord bless this food, which I am about to receive from thy bounty through Christ our Lord, Amen.’
October 18th, 2007 at 3:59 am
@bois8726
That little twist of the meaning of the words of Jesus is what causes many problems. If one is to read it all in entirely it is very clear that the meaning of those verses is not to give you a right to judge people by merely saying that
That particular part of bible says, at least to all those theologians, believers and priests who truly study their bible that
By stating that you are prepared to be judged is once more a prime example of the sin called pride which so many people with personal relationship with god seem to fall into. It begs to question, with who you really have a personal relationship with as Acts 13:10 states
Your little semantic polarizations is why I am finding it hard to see why you seem to think yourself as a christian as you seem to pick only divisive and detrimental meanings as basis for your faith.
@Michael Hyrocket
And you made this decision and judgement because we did not agree with your view of your god. It is true that I have been an agnostic from a very young age, who who keeps leaning towards the teachings of Simon Magus.
But these statements, which are so prevalent in born again circles, are used to condemn people. I find it really annoying. Do you not believe in the commandments Exodus 20:16?
Or even the writings of Luke 3:14, who you borrowed?
Clearly, you are not in a position to make statements about the faith of others when your faith is based on not following what you preach.
October 17th, 2007 at 11:59 pm
My brothers and sisters… we need to learn something from Simon Bond and Jagannath. they speak of the truth that they have experience in there worldly view. i say this not to offend anyone, for they are not believers in Christ Jesus. The truth we have is in Christ Jesus, the Son of God.
For if ye love them which love you, what thank have ye? for sinners also that love them. And if ye do good to them which do good to you, what thank have ye? for sinners also do even the same.
My brothers and sisters did we not do the same, when we ask forgiveness from our sins and be saved, to be born anew? in Luke chap. 7
And stood at his feet behind him weeping, and began to wash his feet with tears, and did wipe [them] with the hairs of her head, and kissed his feet, and anointed them with the ointment.
Now when the Pharisee which had bidden him saw it, he spake within himself, saying, This man, if he were a prophet, would have known who and what manner of woman this is that toucheth him: for she is a sinner.
(PLEASE READ LUKE 7)
And he said unto her, Thy sins are forgiven.
Simon said…
Doctors who will not treat children of mothers with tattos…
is this true? were they christian doctors? everyone should be ashamed of this! how is this child and parent suppose to hear the gospel? tell me brothers and sisters? were we not like them at one time?
LUKE 18
And they brought unto him also infants, that he would touch them: but when his disciples saw it, they rebuked them.
But Jesus called them unto him, and said, Suffer little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God. Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child shall in no wise enter therein.
Simon Bond and Jagannath, i understand your feelings beacause when i accepted Christ Jesus my Lord and Saviour… i was zealous for Gods word and that everyone was wrong. As i continue my walk with God and from the negative response from people; when i judge people of their way of life. i was convicted of this judgement of others because in my heart I see the truth in his words and want to share the life in them. So, through reading the word of God daily, prayer and fasting, the Spirit of God has revealed to me, my wrongs. It is my hope that sinners(like me) will see this truth and in time they will either accept or reject this gift of salvation through our Lord and Saviour Christ Jesus.
Simon said…
“Most of us here don’t believe we have the answers or that we are all knowing. It is you who continually states that you are right and that we are fools for not believing as you do”.
Jag. said…
“So you are either with us or against us, judgement is given”
I have cast judgement on Jesus because at one time i did the same…
But they cried, saying, Crucify him, crucify him!
And when they were come to the place, which is called Calvary, there they crucified him, and the malefactors, one on the right hand, and the other on the left.
Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do. And they parted his raiment, and cast lots.
Oh… i realize what judgement i have cast… Oh, my Father, you forgave my my sins… for i put you on the cross and i have said, crucified him… what has he done but, tell us about the truth. if i sin let me ask forgiveness, we know what we do. If anyone calls someone a fool put it on me and lets lead them to calvary for the my Father lives and the truth he brings is life and riches of eternal life that we might live for him. Oh, Father here my prayer, my the your Spirit show my brothers and sisters forget not… guide me with your understnading to lead my kids in obedience under my care.Amen
My brothers and sisters let us remember our Lord and Saviours words by meditating on them daily, in prayer and giving thanks for everything.
And Jesus answering said unto them, They that are whole need not a physician; but they that are sick. I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.
I have to say one more thing to the all posters who do not know Christ Jesus as Lord and Saviour…
Recognize that you cannot be saved by trying to be good
or by doing the best you can, or by being a member of a social or religious org. we are not saved by our good works.
Confess that you cannot save yourself; that you are a guilty sinner worhty of God’s righteous judgement and our lost without Christ Jesus a your personal Saviour.
Believe the good news that Christ died for the ungodly. Christ died for you and settled your sin debt on the cross and believe that he raised from the dead and now lives. Come to him in faith.
CALL on the name of the Lord Jesus Christ with your sincere heart to be saved from your sins… God promises “whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord sh