Enjoy these words of wisdom on religion from George Carlin. No its not work safe unless you have headphones (which I highly recommend).
If you don’t know who George Carlin is, then you probably live in a cave ;) Either way you’re in for a treat. Here’s a little sample…
Thanks to Yeti for the video!
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Related posts:
- Kevin Tackles George Carlin’s Take On Religion
- Sam Harris–Link Between Religion And Violence
- The Evolution Of Religion
- Are Americans Ignorant About Religion?
- Sir Elton John Calls For Religion Ban
March 1st, 2007 at 5:57 pm
10 Commandments:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=YpFD1n0nlpw
Christians vs UFO Believers:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=ue-gDpI_080
March 1st, 2007 at 6:06 pm
Brilliant. Carlin hits the nail on the head repeatedly, all the way through this. A classic.
March 1st, 2007 at 6:55 pm
great point, can we get any christian takes on this one?
because he’s making the exact same points as i always do.
March 1st, 2007 at 7:45 pm
I’ve got two tickets to see his new show in May!
That being said, I am having a terrible fucking day. Change is life; and in it, nothing is absolute and nothing is constant. Chaotic and random, every facet of our existance is predictable only by our intentions and perception of “reality”.
You don’t have to beleive in what I’m saying above, to hold it’s truth close to your own life. There are too many unknowns, too many possibilities and too many variables to think you can control or predict change. Hell, we can even classify it properly without using dimensions and macroscopic principles.
Life is learning; and once you stop, you’re dead.
March 1st, 2007 at 10:44 pm
Is it just me, or does “Religious Freaks” seem a bit heavy on the “religious” and light on the “freaks” lately?
March 1st, 2007 at 10:46 pm
Actually, I consider Carlin to be an Atheist religious freak in my book.
You do have a point to some degree though Pseudonym and I’ll take look over the last 30 or so posts to see if you’re correct. Does anyone else agree with Pseudonym?
gasmonso
March 2nd, 2007 at 12:00 am
I think that depends on what level of religiousness one perceives to be freakish. For some of us, even a tiny bit is absurd.
March 2nd, 2007 at 12:05 am
Jennifurret: “Absurd” is, surely, different than “freakish”.
March 2nd, 2007 at 5:33 am
true, but still, more freak would be nice, especially for those religious non-freaks here.
March 2nd, 2007 at 9:17 am
Love me some Carlin and actually Chrisitanity teaches that something is indeed f***ed up.
March 2nd, 2007 at 10:42 am
It seems like there are more updates nowadays though. And for me, if it’s between more updates and dialing into more “freakish” things, I’d rather the updates.
March 2nd, 2007 at 6:09 pm
Flapjack, you make a good point.
March 3rd, 2007 at 3:09 pm
There is only one George Carlin and there never ever will be another. I have enjoyed him from one of his very first shows at The Staler Hotel in Boston to his shows at Hampton Beach NH, and the Beverly MA Theater In The Round. He is a funny “mother fucker”
March 3rd, 2007 at 10:48 pm
Carlin is a master, this guy is so real he’s unreal. Funny, and true at the same time and that’s hard to beat.
Dig the crowd lauging… You know this makes me think once again, how many “unbelievers” are really out there? What are the numbers? Like 5m atheist in the entire US (recent CNN video) ? It has got to be alot more than that.
Hail to the sun!
March 5th, 2007 at 4:21 am
[...] http://religiousfreaks.com/2007/03/01/george-carlins-take-on-religion/ [...]
March 15th, 2007 at 10:31 pm
Mr. Carling can be viewed as the ultimate cynic. Yet he has unequivocally stated that he is a realist. Realism like his borders on surrealism. I have followed and enjoyed his work from the beginning, including his tv show that aired on fox. He is truly a force to be reckoned with and a timeless gem. We will miss him once he is gone, which is not that far away. Just a great man in every sense of the expression.
October 15th, 2007 at 1:09 pm
I love and admire this man, and hate to think of the day when he’s not around. He’s a fucking genius.
November 14th, 2007 at 12:40 am
Those of you who consider yourselves to not be religious freaks because you are “atheists” are stupid because there is no proof against the existence of a supreme being just as there is no proof for Its existence; it is therefore irational to say One does not exist without a doubt, for there is no proof. Like deluded George, you have faulty logic. Were you intelligent and logical you would be an agnostic like the rest of us. But since you are uneducated, ignorant and stupid like poor George the alky and pill popper you let your emotions get in the way of your logic and insist with no evidence that a Supreme being does not exist. Face your issues with religion and stop ignorantly projecting them onto others.
November 14th, 2007 at 12:48 am
You have know idea what you just said, do you? In the scientific community when someone brings forth a theory, that person MUST have some evidence to support it, otherwise your theory is COMPLETELY useless and without foundation. Don’t forget that most people who believe in a god need to follow a “holy” book, like the bible or quran, however science and basic logic have disproved many statements made in these books. So that hurts those followers argument that their god and book are the “right one”.
November 14th, 2007 at 9:43 am
It is so typical of man to blame God for all the things his (man) sin has brought into this world. Indeed God created good and evil but then gave man a choice. Of course man chose evil, just like you athiests on this forum choose the lies of scientists (not science) over God’s truth. George Carlin has been misled like so many others by RELIGION not by God. The big misconception here has always been that God & religion are the same. GHOD ABHORS RELIGION. Get it through your thick yet small minds!
November 14th, 2007 at 12:40 pm
“lies of scientists (not science)”
Do you have some examples of scientists lying? If i remember correctly the scientific method helps prevent people from just making shit up.
November 15th, 2007 at 12:48 am
Yes. A big one. Evolution
irishthunder Says:
November 14th, 2007 at 12:40 pm
“lies of scientists (not science)â€
Do you have some examples of scientists lying? If i remember correctly the scientific method helps prevent people from just making shit up.
November 15th, 2007 at 1:52 am
Thats it? you don’t have anything to back up your statement that evolution is a lie?
November 25th, 2007 at 8:32 pm
Correct me if I am wrong. Isn’t that Huckabee cadidate (the preacher) one of the three republican idiots who raised their hands when the debate moderator asked “which of you believe that the earth was created 6000 years ago…??” If so, how would you like that dolt in office as president?
Holy cow!!!
November 26th, 2007 at 12:53 pm
Normal, thinking people wouldn’t. However, those are in short supply in the USA.
January 15th, 2008 at 10:38 pm
A standing ovation to George Carlin.
Omar.
January 29th, 2008 at 5:37 pm
[...] Christian reader by the name of Kevin left a lengthy response to George Carlin’s Take on Religion. Since Kevin was kind enough to take the time to chime in, I thought it best to move his comment to [...]
April 3rd, 2008 at 9:39 pm
I know this discussion is old, but thought I would add this because there are some recent posts.
Tatiana Deirdre: I also thought that perhaps atheists should simply say they were agnostic until a Philosophy teacher corrected me. If I remember his explanation, he said that agnosticism is simply the awareness that we cannot know whether or not there is a god, so you can be EITHER a believer or a non-believer and also agnostic, thereby admitting that there is no way to know one way or the other. (I’m not sure if I’m repeating his argument correctly.)
Many rabid Christians seem to have no idea that the word “faith” means believing in something for which there is no proof! You admit that there is no proof either FOR or AGAINST the existence of a supreme being, yet you call atheists “stupid” and “irrational” for deciding that there is not a God. Why aren’t believers of all faiths “stupid” and “irrational” for believing that there IS a God?
It seems to me that it is YOU being emotional and irrational. I am constantly amazed at believers who challenge atheists to explain and defend their viewpoint. While I know it is the result of indoctrination/brainwashing, it is just astounding that WE are supposed to explain ourselves when it is you believers who think that there is an invisible being running this world and everyone’s lives!!
April 3rd, 2008 at 9:50 pm
Debbie S –
Of course this discussion is old. *Thousands* of years old. But you *do* have to defend your viewpoint . . . because if you don’t, dogmatic religious powers will continue to keep humanity in the dark and continue to abuse and take adavantage of our wonderful human race.
And that is from an agnostic.
May 29th, 2008 at 10:50 am
I hope, I beg, I plead… that nature, or God, or chance, or causality, or whatever you oh so intelligent, clever, and self-important blessings wish to call it, will send a giant amazing fire ball to kills us all, just so everyone… Christians, Jews, Muslims, Atheists, Agnostics, Wiccans, Sun Worshipers, or anyone who waste a single moment on discussions of this nature (including myself) will just SHUT THE FUCK UP. These arguments are so mindless and stupid… we might as well argue over the smell of the color blue. I can’t even begin to describe how much I hate myself for clicking on this site, reading this single blog post, or taking minutes out of my short life on a comment that will do nothing, mean nothing, and probably not even be posted.
So like yeah, give your life to jesus and shit. yeah.
June 23rd, 2008 at 12:15 am
Well, some sad news. George Carlin died at the age of 71 today. Heart failure, apparently.
RIP, George. You had guts, and the world was a better place for how you made us laugh at the ridiculous things that humans do.
June 23rd, 2008 at 1:13 am
He’s dead now.
June 23rd, 2008 at 9:06 am
Guess he knows the truth now :(
June 23rd, 2008 at 9:18 am
I doubt it, Barbara. If there is no afterlife, then there is no George Carlin to know anything anymore. Sad news indeed.
June 23rd, 2008 at 9:47 am
Another great loss to the world.
June 23rd, 2008 at 10:58 am
There is truth. Sadly, many will not discover that
truth until they die and it is too late.
God, though sovereign, gave us freedom to
follow Him or to reject Him.
George ridiculed RELIGION and religion is
man-made & heavily flawed, so there is
MUCH to ridicule.
God is perfect, and neither a myth nor what
many in organized religion portray him to be.
Before rejecting God, read the Bible for yourself.
Study it. George (and others) may call it a book of
myths or fairy tales, but do your own thinking. Read and
study it for yourself.
Don’t let “religion” or people like “George” tell
you who or what God is (or isn’t). Or that he
exists or doesn’t. Do your own study, your
own thinking, and come to your own conclusions.
The Bible & historical record is filled with evidence.
George ridiculed the belief that there’s “an invisible
being running this world and everyone’s lives” … and
to back up the absurdity of such a belief pointed to
how screwed up the world is. He was right about that,
the world is screwed up because the “god” of this world
is satan, the father of lies & author of confusion & evil.
Why is satan running this world? Why is there evil, violence,
pain, suffering? Why (or how) could a “loving God” allow
this to be? The Bible answers these questions and good
many more, for those who bother to read it.
This life is short… but our soul/spirit is eternal. Rather
than “wait” to see what happens (or assume there is
nothing after death), read the Bible for yourself. Look
at the evidence instead of saying: “what evidence” or
believing those who say none exists.
June 23rd, 2008 at 11:36 am
Yeah…the Bible has nothing which scientific and logical people like to call FACTS. The Bible has stories about 900 year old men, and how the entire human race went from Adam and Eve to 6,000,000,000 people in what? 6,000 years???
I’ve always liked the idea of God and Heaven. It really is a nice thought. I just can’t believe what I have no evidence of.
The Bible explains a variety of “miracles”, all of which mysteriously happened before television or photography could capture them. Now, the miracles we get are a bunch of nutjobs who think that Mary appeared in grilled cheese or in some tree somewhere.
I don’t tell people what to believe. That’s there business. But, to counteract the illogical of this board, you cannot prove a negative. The burden of proof does not reside with an Athiest.
I am an Athiest. I am convinced that there is no God, and will remain so until PROVEN otherwise.
It is outrageous for someone to say I have the burden of proving that there is no God.
Two reasons:
(1) You cannot prove a negative. I cannot offer proof that something does not exist.
(2) The believers are the ones claiming that some mystery spirit lives up in space somewhere and runs this “heaven” that nobody can see, and no evidence exists regarding it’s actually being there.
See, if I claim that I can make myself disappear (or some other idiotic remark), I’d have to prove it. You can’t prove that I can’t do it.
In the end, I thought it was obvious. People believe, and continue to cite the same stupid reasoning:
“The Bible says so”
“Where did we all come from if not for God?”
“I’ve felt God’s presence”
etc.
It all amounts to garbage. There are no facts to support God, because God is a concept created by man to deal with man’s fears.
Show me facts in the Bible and I’ll show you that I can fly…
June 23rd, 2008 at 11:48 am
It’s sad that he died without knowing the truth. He’s truly lost, now, and has determined his eternal future.
June 23rd, 2008 at 11:58 am
Hahaha, yes, I’m sure he’s in hell, and I’ll see him there, since I too never learned the “truth”…
By the way, do you have any facts to support the “truth” or are you just randomly following some story book???
June 23rd, 2008 at 12:52 pm
No truth that you would see, only things you would call “coincidence”. I tried multiple times to kill myself as a teenager. Once, what I believe was an angel, saved me. I, even now, could not tell you what the man looked like and didn’t recognize it as such, at the time. Another time, my son and I were driving and in a near accident. Neither of us could believe we were still alive. I saw it coming, closed my eyes, and was “guided” through without incident. There have been other occasions and many other details that I won’t waste your time with and no one can “prove” what may have “really” happened.
As much as you may dispise me, my comments, and my opinions, I really hate that anyone would go to hell (which I’m sure you see as fantasy, also) because I didn’t try to tell them.
Without knowing me, there’s no way for you to know that I’m not a nut job or just another idiot in the world (and most of the world DOES consist of idiots). But, I felt compelled to voice my comments in hope that someone will read this and it will touch their life. My brother is atheist/agnostic and we have had many conversations. I hope that one day, something will touch his life, too, before it’s too late.
June 23rd, 2008 at 1:12 pm
Yeah…I’ve survived near death car accidents, had tragedy strike, and everything else…
I’ve seen a lot, but I never saw God, an angel, a ghost, or any “miracle”…
I don’t hate you, not at all.
But, I think your lack of understanding or being able to cope with things leads you to WANT it to be a God that just doesn’t exist.
I’m a man of fact. When I see it, I’ll believe it.
June 23rd, 2008 at 1:40 pm
My brother is a man of fact, also.
I, actually have more lack of understanding about God than I do of no God. I don’t cope with things well and I’ve not seen God “answer” my prayers in a form that make me believe. I don’t even pray regularly (as I believe I should). I’ve not been able to put things in God’s hands and let him handle them…therefore, I don’t believe that I’m leaning on him (as I believe I should).
I find it very hard to be “devout” or a strong Christian, it takes lots of work. I wish that I could convince myself that there was no God. It would make life so much easier and without “consequence”.
Do you believe in global warming? I don’t because I don’t believe the “proof” that has been talked about. I truly understand not believing without “proof”.
I do hope you (and others) find the proof, one day, that George never found.
June 23rd, 2008 at 3:20 pm
I’m curious to what George thinks of hell now. Assuming that he didn’t repent before he died, I’m guessing he probably doesn’t like it.
June 23rd, 2008 at 5:31 pm
If there is NO god then George seemed sure of it, then no big deal.
However if there is a God then he has a long time to think about it.
Peace out.
June 23rd, 2008 at 8:27 pm
George made me laugh many times. He had a very quick wit and he had some great insights into our language and behavior.
In my opinion, George was a thinker and analyst. Like many thinkers and analysts, he seemed to struggle to understand and control his world. Analysis seems to be a powerful tool to solve problems and deal with emotions. Many of us assign a lot of importance to having this skill. Modern society rewards this skill.
I have to say that George, especially in his later years, seemed cynical, judgemental and depressed. Sadly, not the picture of a great man.
When I watched George’s shows in his later years, I laughed, but throughout the show I had a bad feeling; an empty feeling that left me, well, depressed. Were George’s shows a public attempt to express his own feelings of despair? It’s just a question.
I have similar bad feelings when I over-analyze, over-think and try to control things. I want to control things, especially when I’m afraid.
How do I avoid feeling this way? By acknowledging that my perception and thoughts, though valid and real, are not the full story. Letting go of judgement, cynicism and control brings peace and joy. In this state I get wisdom and understanding and realize that my perception, my thoughts, my brain, though valid, are not the full story.
Is there intelligence and information in the universe that exists outside of me and is not in the minds of others? It’s a big universe with lots of energy. It’s a fun question and one each of us can try to answer for ourselves.
Many great minds have answered “yes” to this question. Emerson and Thoreau are two examples of many.
The answer for me is “yes”. Can I prove it? I think I might be able to and have thought of experiments to try. But I have my own internal proof and that works.
June 23rd, 2008 at 8:58 pm
Rest now, George. Your work is done, and done well.
June 23rd, 2008 at 9:43 pm
The bible calls people fools that deny God exists and that they will have no excuse when judged because God’s existence is evident in all that he has created.
June 23rd, 2008 at 9:55 pm
Ed, your supposed god is lacking and error-prone in many ways. How do you account for all of the obvious errors in your god’s supposed creations, such as our susceptibility to various diseases, as well as apparent evolutionary remnants such as the appendix, and so on?
These are evidence against, not for, an active and perfect god such as your bible claims.
June 24th, 2008 at 3:19 am
I really hope this guy called on The Lord before he died. I hope he was joking about there is no God. Some things you can never tell if he is serious or being a jokester. As my mom said when she heard the news to me: “I wonder where he is” and so do I. There is a God and His Son Jesus Christ and may George have really believed. It is not for us to judge where he went, but to hope he did believe and called on The Lord before he died. Any one who doesnt believe on here that typed things on not believing etc, I really hope one day you do…your life must feel empty inside, I just cant phathom not having a personal realtionship with Him. Anything that is happening today such as the things George mentioned, well it is all the fall of man and it continues. If the world turns more away from Him, dont be surprised if more things happen to this country and around it. It is not a small thing for what is going on today. Funny thing is: it is all in The Bible and it is coming to pass. If you cant believe that than dont read any “non-fiction” books, now that is being a hypocrite! Trying to make a point to the non-believers on here and may George have called on The Lord.
June 24th, 2008 at 3:29 am
I just had a thought, it is amazing he did marry once and then again after losing his wife. So I would have to assume he believed if he was sharing vows with each wife. Only his widow can answer our questions on his belief. He will be missed, I do think he was funny, and I do hope he believed.
June 24th, 2008 at 8:12 am
“Trying to make a point to the non-believers on here and may George have called on The Lord.”
Seeing that He confirmed MANY times offstage that he was an atheist, I doubt he suddenly repented. If he had I can assure you that there would have been a huge deal made of it.
“Funny thing is: it is all in The Bible and it is coming to pass. If you cant believe that than dont read any “non-fiction†books, now that is being a hypocrite!”
What exactly in the bible has come to pass?
June 24th, 2008 at 8:14 am
wow,
Well, at least you and I both think Carlin was funny. Keep in mind also that, whatever he believed, he demonstrably thought that mainstream religion was ridiculous. I think that all religion is ridiculous, as do many others who frequent this site. We have good reasons for thinking that.
Now regarding what you said,
I also agree with that statement, but not that a deity is responsible for what is going on. Within that attribution of responsibility to god is one of the worst moral, practical consequences of common religions such as Christianity and Islam, in that they would take responsibility away from humans for human mistakes and failures. “God did it” means that man can’t be blamed for it when he should be.
Consider, just for one example, that global warming is an observable reality (shrinking ice caps, diminishing permafrost, increasing ocean temps etc.), and that we face many other disasters, some man-made and some not. There is also strong evidence that global warming is man-made, rather than being the work of some (fictional) god. Now, given the purported omnibenevolent and personal, active characteristics of the bible god, how could such a god be letting such disasters (man-made and not) happen to a people that it “loves”, and why should man have to “fall” or even suffer at all? The real answer is that the purported bible god obviously does not exist with characteristics as claimed.
I’m not sure what you are trying to get across in
but most of us here have read the bible in a lot of detail, and consider it to be a work of fiction, or more specifically, a series man-made account of events as seen by people with the limited scientific understanding of their time, colored by a lot of wishful thinking. For example, the time scales and explanations of the bible for “creation” and the age of our planet are plainly and obviously false, as are the explanations for the origins and propagation of disease.
So how would you respond to the specific points in my post 51?
June 24th, 2008 at 9:36 am
So Let them laugh a little, they will cry MUCH. As a reward for what they used to earn.
- Koran 9:82
God Jokes at them, and gives them increase in their error to wander blindly.
- Koran 2:15
when they went on rejecting the Signs of God; then they were (completely) encircled by that which they used to joke at!
- Koran 46:26
June 24th, 2008 at 10:13 am
dg, how do you reconcile that “reward” with your supposedly merciful god? Or is the Koran wrong on that front too, as with so many others?
Korgan (one letter greater than Koran :-) )
June 24th, 2008 at 4:30 pm
George once asked Larry King, “Why can’t we make fun of Christians?” I think the questions have changed for him now…to something like: “My life…it ran out…O God…what now?”
For all his false bravado, and all his antogonism toward religion, there are things that George Carlin would have readily admitted he couldn’t handle. None of us can. As Pastor I see it in addiction and in hospitals, in nursing homes and funeral homes–everywhere we look there are things that are out of our hands, things bigger than we are. Our faliures to love, our guilt and our death…and the very real judgement of God–before such things we are not merely weak, we are nothing at all.
The point is that a person can live an entire life around the question, Am I enough. “Am I adequate to face whatever life can send?” Up until the time a person dies, he or she might say to themself, “You bet.” But before a holy God, nothing could be clearer than the inadeqacy of mortal, sinful, man. If we would try for a single hour to be holy–to think not of ourselves or any impure thought–we would see what weakness is.
Carlin always said religion was a crutch for the weak. But in the end, we are all utterly powerless when it comes to the things we care about the most, and we are going to die. Eternity is waiting. Now’s the time to find out where you’ll be spending it. The last book of the Bible tells us that nothing impure will enter into God’s holy presence in heaven. We need Jesus to take away our sins, and that’s exactly what he did on the cross. Faith in Jesus saves.
Like I said, immdiately upon his death, the questions changed for Mr. Carlin. No longer is it, “Who needs religion?” it’s…well, I shudder to think what’s going through his mind now.
June 24th, 2008 at 4:35 pm
You may click on your name and/or comment to edit. ( 6 minutes and 43 seconds)
George once asked Larry King, “Why can’t we make fun of Christians?†I think the questions have changed for him now…to something like: “My life…it ran out…O God…what now?â€
For all his false bravado, and all his antogonism toward religion, there are things that George Carlin would have readily admitted he couldn’t handle. None of us can. As Pastor I see it in addiction and in hospitals, in nursing homes and funeral homes–everywhere we look there are things that are out of our hands, things bigger than we are. Our faliures to love, our guilt and our death…and the very real judgement of God–before such things we are not merely weak, we are nothing at all.
The point is that a person can live an entire life around the question, Am I enough. “Am I adequate to face whatever life can send?†Up until the time a person dies, he or she might say to themself, “You bet.†But before a holy God, nothing could be clearer than the inadeqacy of mortal, sinful, man. If we would try for a single hour to be holy–to think not of ourselves or any impure thought–we would see what weakness is.
Carlin always said religion was a crutch for the weak. But in the end, we are all utterly powerless when it comes to the things we care about the most, and we are going to die. Eternity is waiting. Now’s the time to find out where you’ll be spending it. The last book of the Bible tells us that nothing impure will enter into God’s holy presence in heaven. We need Jesus to take away our sins, and that’s exactly what he did on the cross. Faith in Jesus saves.
Like I said, immdiately upon his death, the questions changed for Mr. Carlin. No longer is it, “Who needs religion?†it’s…well, I shudder to think what’s going through his mind now.
June 24th, 2008 at 5:13 pm
Bill, you keep referencing the bible. The bible indeed has many things to “tell”, but much of the content is plainly and obviously wrong, as already noted in my posts above and others. Given those obvious errors of the bible, why do you think it is appropriate to vest ones life guidance and faith in such a document?
June 24th, 2008 at 5:26 pm
Howdy all,
Bill you have made a lot of claims that you have stated as facts here. Whilst I do understand that this is what you believe, you must understand that it is not what I believe. These claims without proof or a logical argument to back them up are meaningless.
Cheers
Simon Bond
June 24th, 2008 at 11:10 pm
Korgan: “Bill, you keep referencing the bible.”
Simon: “Bill you have made a lot of claims that you have stated as facts here”.
Have you ever heard of the pamphlet, “Ten Scientific Facts that Clearly Contradict the Bible?” (ca. 1852) Not a single “fact” is still taken seriously today. Today’s science will, with certainty, be smirked at tomorrow (I’m not the only one who thinks so).
Here’s what scientific progress is really like: a community of practitioners forms under the umbrella of a paradigm, that for a time seems best to fit the facts and wins the intellectual field. Institutions are founded on that model, careers are made, textbooks are written, and theories harden unnoticeably into concrete fact. But then that pardigm, unquestionably embraced by one generation gives way to another, inevitably.
There’s an important point to be made here: We all ought to be more than a little careful when it comes to what it is that we pin our hopes to. I put my hope and trust in God and His Word. You place it elsewhere.
I place my hope in the Bible because it’s the only book that points me to Christ and answers the gnawing need of my conscience, and the unmistakable sense of eternity in my inner being. No, this won’t show up in a lab report. But niether can science completely understand how something as simple as an idea is formed in the brain. The puzzels of such apparent simplicities of light and gravity, energy and matter are simply beyond humanity’s full grasp.
Albert Einstein once said, “The universe is not merely more complicated than we can understand. It’s more complicated than we can imagine.”
P.S. I have never had anyone show me even one apparrent contradiction in the Bible that wasn’t resolved by a proper understanding of its two main messages (law & gospel). But unless you approach the Bible, like Moses approached the burning bush, down low, with his sandals off, realizing he was toast if it were not for the grace of God; unless you see Christ on every page, the Bible will forever remain a confusing, and closed book.
June 25th, 2008 at 6:27 am
Korgan - “how do you reconcile that “reward†with your supposedly merciful god? Or is the Koran wrong on that front too, as with so many others?”
Mercy is one of Gods attributes. God is as ruthless in punishing mockers as He is merciful towards those who love Him. Mercy will not apply to those who lived their life mocking God.
Though I dont know you personally, I sincerely advice you to ponder over this matter very carefully. You have one life… all that matters is how you check out.
June 25th, 2008 at 10:20 am
Merciless, but Good…
That’s some interesting doublethink you’ve got going there.
June 25th, 2008 at 10:41 am
Hi Korgan and dg.
Korgan asked: “how do you reconcile that “reward†with your supposedly merciful god”
When I originally watched the video of George Carlin, I assumed that behind his biting satire was a real compassion for people. Because he loved people, and loved making people happy through his comedy, he recoiled at the thought of a merciful God in the midst of a world gone so wrong. I suspect that his comedy was his way of making his case against a God like that.
Some people go that route. They protest about the sorry state of the world, and then go on to deny the existence of God. Others just tell me that as a Christan I need life to mean something, when according to them, it just doesn’t.
Frankly, that thought bothers me even more than Carlin’s tirade against God and religion. Even though there are many good things about our world, there are many other things that are dreadfully, and unspeakably wrong about it. And to think that we are just spinning around in the universe while all this sin, suffering and injustice just continues to go on — and that nothing really matters and that nothing’s at stake — that thought bothers me even more.
Of course, I want a God that cares about the decimation caused by earthquakes and tsunamis; I want a God that is outraged by things on the world scene like starvation and genocide along with the things done to women and children in our homes, and on our streets (things done by “religious” people and non-religious people alike).
Of course, the thought of anyone suffering in hell FOREVER bothers me even more. It’s not a doctrine I gleefuly pronounce on people over whom I feel morally superior. I also acknowledge that I deserve to go to hell because of all my sin.
That’s another reason why I do believe there is a God in heaven whose very nature is, as the Holy One, to oppose every evil with all that He is and to respond with aweful justice. It gives meaning to my life when I begin to understand that hell isn’t just for the “bad” people of the world (make your list here), but just as bad, I see in my own unlovely life the something in me saying to God, “Don’t tell me how I should be. I don’t care what you think. I’ll live the way I want. I don’t need you.”
And because I discover that meaning in my own sin, I couldn’t hold it against God if I were to go to hell, if after a lifetime of sun and rain, endless grace and endless chances, if God should finally say, “Alright then. Have it your way. I leave you alone.” Hell doesn’t come just to those who fail to believe the right things. I believe that it is what sin and sinners deserve. It is the place for God to send those who despise the One they know exists from the created world and their conscience. They know.
So where do I stand? I’ve already had people ask me on this blog about the Bible. That’s one thing. I can make a case for it’s flawless message, but ultimately, the reason I believe in God is God. Because we are unable to rise up to Him, He came down to us. Though my words are weak, His grace and power are the reasons I write to you with joy and confidence. God does care. He came onto to this world’s stage with arms stretched out wide. He died the way He died that we might know Him, and that He might say what He has forever wanted to say, “I love you infinitely. Because of what my Son has done, I forgive you completely now, and I’m preparing a place for you in heaven. I give your life meaning as simply as this: it means something to me. It meant so much I gave you my Son.
June 25th, 2008 at 7:13 pm
Bill, I appreciate the effort that you put into your lengthy post, but the conflicts between bible content and well-tested science are well established, and the bible has been shown to be clearly wrong on subjects such as how the earth was populated, genetics, the age of the earth, and much more. This subject has already been dealt with on this website in a lot of detail, and I suggest that you have a read of prior articles such as this one, wherein gasmonso and others provide good summaries of some of the problems with the bible in view of modern understanding of the world and the universe.
Bible vs. science aside, since I’d guess that you and I will never agree on that subject, how do you handle the conflicts of the bible with itself? For a “flawless” document, it’s a little odd that it isn’t even self-consistent. Merciful god vs. pretty evil vengeant god aside, since that has already been covered in this thread, consider just as one example, that the bible in some passages says that the earth is flat, and in others, that it is round. Here is a good starting point for reading about that subject.
So, given that the bible is not even internally consistent, you can’t reasonably state that it has a “flawless message”. Furthermore, your conclusion, of the existence of bible-god, is on even shakier ground.
June 25th, 2008 at 11:07 pm
Alcari - “Merciless, but Good…
That’s some interesting doublethink you’ve got going there.”
No doublethink there.
Read my post again… “Mercy will not apply to those who lived their life mocking God.” Its the same reward/punishment model that humans are familiar with.
June 26th, 2008 at 8:50 am
dg
You’ve lost the argument. There can be no conditions on the mercy of an omnibenevolent being such as you claim your god is.
Your final line of post 67 is also revealing of how the Koran god story was created by man.
June 26th, 2008 at 1:36 pm
Hi Korgan,
Thanks for the resources you tipped me off to. I hope to study them more in-depth as time allows. See below for a “brief” initial response. But first, a question: Picking and chosing from the knocks you have against the Bible, you mentioned that “the bible has been shown to be clearly wrong on subjects such as how the earth was populated.”
What are you trying to suggest — that given the Bible’s young age of the earth that the world’s population couldn’t have reached what it is today? I’m not sure if that was your point, but if it was, then this link suggests otherwise: http://www.ldolphin.org/popul.html
In reference to the claim that the Bible promotes a flat earth, the resource you steered me to provides an illustration of a flat earth with a round dome based on Genesis 1:7 and other figurative expressions in other places in the Bible. But the writer of Genesis, Moses, was simply desribing things as he saw them. That’s how God inspired Him to write. Looking up, you’d say, that the sky looks like a dome, too. It wasn’t meant to be a scientific treatise on the shape of the earth. Niether were these passages cited by the resource you steered me to:
“The essential flatness of the earth’s surface is required by verses like Daniel 4:10-11. In Daniel, the king “saw a tree of great height at the centre of the earth…reaching with its top to the sky and visible to the earth’s farthest bounds.†If the earth were flat, a sufficiently tall tree would be visible to “the earth’s farthest bounds,†but this is impossible on a spherical earth. Likewise, in describing the temptation of Jesus by Satan, Matthew 4:8 says, “Once again, the devil took him to a very high mountain, and showed him all the kingdoms of the world [cosmos] in their glory.†Obviously, this would be possible only if the earth were flat. The same is true of Revelation 1:7: “Behold, he is coming with the clouds! Every eye shall see him…â€
Answer: read these passages in their proper context and you will see that they are part of a dream God gave a king. The purpose of the dream wasn’t to serve as a scientific treatise on the shape of the earth, but to warn King Nebuchadnezzar that the days of his reign were numbered. The Matthew passage also describes a vision in which Christ was merely shown a composite scene of kingdoms. Details of dreams and visions like this one and the one from Revelation shouldn’t be pressed beyond the purpose for which they were written. The earth is round. God is infinitely powerful. I believe He can appear in His glory in such a way that the entire population of earth will see Him. He can do that. He’s God.
As for the other resource (referred by “gasmonsoâ€)…it has a section devoted to the much touted “Tiktaalik†discovery that is purported as the latest evidence for macroevolution that:
“suggests that one of the early species that emerged from the Earth’s oceans about 375 million years ago was the ancestor of amphibians, reptiles, dinosaurs, birds, and mammals.†(italics mine)
The word “suggests†in this resource “suggests†to me that the jury is still out on Tiktaalik. The bones in Tiktaalik’s fins have no axial skeleton connections. This is significant because without this direct connection, no true walking could be done by Tiktaalik. Furthermore, the fins of this creature enclose rays, not digits such as toes or fingers. Stories like Tiktaalik that shout “one of the greatest transformations in the history of animals†(AP 2006) have traditionally been a flash in the evolutionary pan. Before this we were given the lobed-finned fish called “coelacanth.†considered by evolutionists to be an index fossil that would date sedimentary strata to millions of years (the Devonian, a period in the Paleozoic Era). However, in 1938 a coelacanth was discovered alive off the coast of South Africa. Since then, others have been filmed and coelacanths have recently appeared in the South Pacific.
Evolutionist Michael Denton states: “If the case of the coelacanth illustrates anything, it shows how difficult it is to draw conclusions about the overall biology of organisms from their skeletal remains alone. Because the soft biology of extinct groups can never be known with any certainty then obviously the status of even the most convincing intermediates is bound to be insecure. The coelacanth represents yet another instance where a newly discovered species, which might have provided the elusive evidence of intermediacy so long sought by evolutionary biology, ultimately proved to be only another peripheral twig on the presumed tree of life (Denton 1985).
June 26th, 2008 at 3:15 pm
Bill, some comments and questions for you:
1. how old do you yourself think the earth is, even to order of magnitude? Really 6,000 years?
2. as for how the earth was populated, yes, I think what is suggested in the bible in that regard is simply farcical in and of itself, let alone inconsistent with evidence. For example, are you familiar with The Journey of Man, by Spencer Wells? It presents a very different and better supported view of how the world was populated than the bible does.
3. The fossil record is very clear on speciation details and dates greater than 1 million years, as well as progressions regarding homo erectus, homo sapiens, and related branches. These are all wildly inconsistent with bible stories, merely for example by the existence of homo erectus fossils, let alone their age which is well established at > 1 million years. What are your thoughts on that?
As you should now be aware, I mainly view the bible as quaint and outdated fiction, but the reality that so many people still cling to it today despite its obvious errors and contradictions is a big problem for the world that I seek to address. As I say here often,
Religion is a disease of the mind. Inoculate against it with reason.
June 27th, 2008 at 1:32 am
Korgan - “You’ve lost the argument. There can be no conditions on the mercy of an omnibenevolent being such as you claim your god is.”
Sorry, but there is nothing in the revealed texts to suggest that God loves everyone unconditionally (and neither did I claim so) Read through it some day and you will see how the punishment/reward model is repeated time and time again. Plenty of times, verses that speak of a reward for those who lead their lives honoring God is accompanied by verses that warn of a horrific punishment for sinners and mockers. While Gods mercy is open to all, the choices that the individual makes fetches him his reward or his punishment.
Korgan - “Your final line of post 67 is also revealing of how the Koran god story was created by man.”
You could have arrived at this conclusion much earlier (to your error), considering Ive said God is capable of showing mercy AND vengeance… just like man. The only thing that is a creation of man is the notion of God being merciful to all, as you assume.
June 27th, 2008 at 1:37 am
sorry…double post
June 27th, 2008 at 8:55 am
dg, the Koran, that man-made book which you have referenced at every turn, refers to its god as “all-merciful” many, many times. Case closed.
June 27th, 2008 at 10:34 am
So we are left with,
allah the almost-but-not-quite-all-merciful-and-not-on-all-seven-days-of-the-week-either-because-I’m-not-omnipotent-and-I-get-tired…
Interesting recipe for a “god”.
June 27th, 2008 at 5:10 pm
And there you have it Korgan, the recipe for a god that fits any poor fool’s view of the universe. It’s still mind-boggling the christians, muslims, and all the other religions have yet to unite against all us evil non-believers.
June 27th, 2008 at 5:43 pm
Hi Korgan,
First, hat’s off to you – taking on a Muslim & Christian at the same time — you da man!
Okay, here’s another “brief” post — about the age of the earth — and — bonus — at the end, I’ll throw in my 2 cents worth on your reply to “dg†on the nature of God.
First, help me out here: what’s the latest word on the reliability radioactive dating? I found this by evolutionist Frederic Jueneman:
“The age of our globe is presently thought to be some 4.5 billion years, based on radio-decay rates of uranium and thorium. Such ‘confirmation’ may be shortlived, as nature is not to be discovered quite so easily. There has been in recent years the horrible realization that radio-decay rates are not as constant as previously thought, nor are they immune to environmental influences. And this could mean that the atomic clocks are reset during some global disaster, and events which brought the Mesozoic to a close may not be 65 million years ago, but rather, within the age and memory of man.†(Jueneman, “Secular Catastrophism,†Industrial Research and Development, Vol. 24 [June 1982], p.21)
Hmm…did you know that Darwin himself said the world’s fossils provided perhaps the most serious objection to his theory? He expected this would change over time as fossil collections expanded. Since Darwin, museums, universities, governments, and individual researchers have spent millions and millions of dollars; they’ve gathered many tons of new fossils—there is no lack of fossils—more than scientists and museums can handle, but guess what? Scientists have been disappointed to find the result the same as in Darwin’s day: there still is absolutely no proof of true macroevolution.
What hard evidence really is there for the evolution of man from ape when it is said that all the bones of the most important, so-called ape links could be placed on a single table?! Many of the reconstructions of homo erectus, etc, that you mentioned, are literally reconstructed on the basis of just a few fragments or teeth. Evolutionist Greg Kirby recognized that reconstructions commonly shown in books and museums are based on very little evidence and a large amount of imagination:
“If you were to spend your life picking up bones and finding little fragments of jaw, there’s a very strong desire there to exaggerate the importance of those little fragments.â€
Furthermore, there is increasing fossil and archaeological evidence that human beings and all of the extinct apes could have lived at the same time, side by side.
So then, what does fossil evidence actually show? Millions of animals and plants have died on this planet. Most fossils are not of extinct animals. In fact, most are very similar, if not identical to creatures living today. If evolution is true, one would expect that the opposite is true – why aren’t there millions of tons of more extinct types than living species (instead the opposite is true).
If the Bible is right, you’d expect that the fossil record would begin with the appearance of very complex forms of life (it does). There should be no evidence of macroevolution for each type of animal and plant (there aren’t). As a result, creationists feel the fossil record agrees with the Bible quite well.
In the end, if we’re both asked to think again about evolution or the Bible, I wouldn’t ask either of us to throw our brain out the window, but rather, to be honest about the facts. I’m grateful for this time blogging with you. I’ve tried to do justice to your points. From time to time, I need a fresh dose of the same humility we see in the words of Job: “Surely I spoke of things I did not understand, things too wonderful for me to know.†(Job 42:3)
When you get down to it, this whole issue of evolution v.s. the Bible matters big time. How are we really to know who’s thoughts are valid over another’s? I believe that if you take God out of the picture, and human thinking itself is just another accidental product of chance evolution. Then, ask yourself: can it really be trusted? One person’s thoughts are determined by his environment, another’s by his or her genes…who’s are valid? There have been those (who are much “smarter†than I) who on philosophical grounds, even doubted if they exist! Descartes’ “I think therefore I am,†helped people hope they aren’t just figments of their imagination. Other people, called solipsists, believe they exist but nothing and no one else does. They arrive at these conclusions based on philosophical paths of reasoning more ingenious than I could ever develop or follow. Does that make them right?
In God’s Word, I find something more trustworthy than my thoughts. God declares Himself close not to the brilliant mind, but to the broken heart that still whispers, “I’m sorry.†Then the love of Christ shines out from the Bible like a blazing torch. Earlier in this blog these two attributes of God were pitted against each other: God is holy. God is love. Both are reconciled only at the foot of Christ’s cross. Because Jesus, who is God, died to pay for our sins, God’s anger over sin was satisfied. He is no longer angry over our sin. In the Bible I find out that God’s favor isn’t something I have to earn, but by faith in Jesus I see that it’s been there all along. Again, only at the foot of the cross of Christ, do we understand how God can both be holy, and punish sin, and also loving, and forgiving the sinner. God loved us and gave us His own Son to open the way to heaven for all who simply trust in Jesus.
June 28th, 2008 at 12:25 am
My, this is a insightful discussion.
Me, I have no answers, I have no idea why we are on this Earth. Just to do the best we can.
George Carlin made me laugh, he made a lot of people laugh, and quite possibly think… God Bless him (if God is real) Whom ever is responsible for our blessings, George was one of them. he spoke the truth, most often that is hard to listen too.
We will miss his rants, and miss him making us laugh. There will never be another. He was one of a kind.
June 28th, 2008 at 4:02 am
Korgan - “dg, the Koran, that man-made book which you have referenced at every turn, refers to its god as “all-merciful†many, many times. Case closed.”
Its interesting how unbelievers conveniently stop at the verses that describe God as “merciful”, when the same book also describes God as “severe in punishment” to unbelievers and mockers.
June 28th, 2008 at 4:42 am
Bill, while you make a lot of strong points in your posts, I must respond to this comment you have made -
“God loved us and gave us His own Son to open the way to heaven for all who simply trust in Jesus.”
Please consider what the Messiah had to say on the matter of who gets to heaven…
Matthew 7:21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.”
Bill, dont the Messiahs words in Mathew 7:21 directly contradict the teaching that anyone who professes faith in Jesus will be saved?
June 28th, 2008 at 9:13 am
dg,
Re post 78,
that’s not the case presently, and in fact what is being pointed out here is the incompatibility between “all-merciful” and “severe in punishment†for a supposedly omnipotent being.
June 28th, 2008 at 9:40 am
Bill,
Some of your quote is just denigrating to archaeologists, but the reality, just to take a single example from many, is that the mere existence of fossils of extinct hominidae variants blows away the bible creation myth entirely. There are so many other examples from across scientific disciplines that it is now inconceivable to accept the bible stories as truth.
Arguments for a 6000 year young earth similarly simply don’t have credibility in peer-reviewed science these days.
Arguments against evolution are now also moot in the face of so much evidence for evolution, for example, now that it has actually been observed in fast-breeding species. Like the National Geographic said just a few years ago, the evidence for evolution is simply overwhelming. Even the Vatican, that bastion of non-think and wrong-think, has had to reverse its stance on evolution.
Finally, the bible presents specific details as to how the earth was populated, how languages arose, and so on. These are plainly false. The July 2008 Scientific American, pg 56, contains an excellent article about how the earth was populated that conflicts with the bible at every turn, and over 60,000 years just for human population. 60,000>6,000 last time I checked.
Really, that so many in the US now cling to the bible stories as describing any approximation to reality is sad and a sign of backwardness. In Europe, e.g. in Ireland and Spain as examples, religion is increasingly being left behind, to the benefit of their populations. The US stands poised to become a poor ghetto as to scientific understanding relative to the rest of the western world, and that is not a good thing. Worse still is that bible myth has effectively become a substitute for critical thinking for many in the US.
June 28th, 2008 at 11:36 am
dg - Re post 79,
“Matthew 7:21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.â€
“Bill, dont the Messiah’s words in Mathew 7:21 directly contradict the teaching that anyone who professes faith in Jesus will be saved?”
Messiah’s words in Matthew 7:21 emphasize that genuine faith on the inside shows itself on the outside. “In the same way,” James wrote: “faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.” (2:17) In other words, genuine faith is a living thing — it can’t help but do good things, but “What does the Scripture say? ‘Abraham believed God and it was credited to him as righteousness.’ Now when a man works, his wages are not credited to him as a gift, but as an obligation. However, to the man who does not work but trusts in God who justifies the wicked, his faith is credited to him as righteousness. David says the same thing when he speaks of the blessedness of the man to whom God credits righteousness apart from works.” (Romans 4:3-6) Ephesians 2:8-9 says, “It is by grace that you have been saved, through faith — and this is not of yourselves, it is the gift of God, not of works, so that no one can boast.” Messiah also said, “This is the work of God: to believe in the one he has sent.” (John 6:28)
Simple faith receives a gift: God credits the perfect life of His Son, Jesus, the Messiah, to our account. Speaking of Abraham, the Apostle Paul said, “The words, ‘it was credited to him’ were written not written for him alone, but also for us, to whom God will credit righteousness — for us who believe in him who raised Jesus our Lord from the dead. He was delivered over to death for our sins, and was raised to life for our justification.” (Romans 4:24-25)
Once again, simple trust in Jesus saves. Since no one but God can see genuine faith, Messiah said, “By their fruits you will recognize them.” (Matthew 7:16) On the last day, Messiah will point to the good works of believers as outward evidence of the saving faith that was present on the inside (See Matthew 25:31-46). The evil of unbelievers will be presented as evidence of the absence of faith, which condemned them already in this life, and forever in eternity, yet to come.
June 29th, 2008 at 11:36 pm
He say’s start dancing! he enjoys not enjoying anything and there’s no hope. Guess what, I am dancing now… I know where my hope is and this guy loves nothing and it’s funny, that’s so sad, who’s dancing now?
June 30th, 2008 at 12:09 pm
Bill and dg,
Your arguments with each other are akin to arguing about the relative merits of the styles of deck chairs on your respective Titanics, but the reality is that both of your boats of religion are full of holes and should never have been put to sea in the first place. Furthermore, Bill, your ongoing preaching seems inappropriate in this thread, except perhaps that it is laughable.
Now, to bring this thread back on track, religion is simply ridiculous, and Carlin knew it.
June 30th, 2008 at 5:05 pm
Yes, Korgan. George was funny, now he’s gone. And he left us some nifty takes on things. So many bits of genius. He will be missed, and remembered.
June 30th, 2008 at 7:26 pm
Kurt, I watched the video on this page again today. It’s brilliant, and it tackles head-on some of the things that are brought up in the comments. Glad to have shared the planet for a while with George Carlin.
July 5th, 2008 at 11:32 am
wow
July 5th, 2008 at 11:37 am
“If God is so good why is there so much war, violence, death, etc. in the world?†In the first book of the bible “Genesis†we are informed that God created heaven and earth in six days and then rested on the seventh. During these six days He also created man (Adam and Eve). We are also informed that man did initially live in a perfect place where there was no war, violence, death, etc (the Garden of Eden). God only had one rule for man while living in this place, which was not to eat from “the tree of lifeâ€. However, Satan (referred to as the serpent in the scripture) encouraged man to disobey God (which he continues to do even today), so they chose to go ahead and eat an apple from the tree. God was so disappointed with the fact that He created us and gave us this perfect place to live and we broke his one and only rule, that He banished all of mankind from this perfect place forever. Hence the condition of the world today. So in reality, it was our own disobedience to our Creator that allowed the war, violence, death, etc. to come into the world. Now, this may bring-up more questions. Some may wonder why God made this rule. Why not just let people enjoy life without rules? The answer is to establish God as our authority figure. Only those of authority can set rules. He wants us to acknowledge Him as our Creator and Father. Following His rules allows us to acknowledge this through our actions. Others may wonder why Satan was allowed to be in this perfect place. The answer to this is to give us freedom of choice. If God created us to be perfect robots, how personal of a relationship do you think we would have with Him? So, instead of creating us in that way, he allows us to be tempted and to choose Him. If we choose God and decide to place our faith in Him even after facing temptation, our relationship with Him becomes VERY personal. We start to actually live for Him instead of living for our own pleasures.”
…And this idiot actually wrote this in response to Carlins rant on religion. This is one of the best cases of “brainwashing” I have ever seen….There is more but it is all nonsense and drivel designed to make you feel stupid for not blindly following a fairy tale…Wake up people..please,wake up and start realizing that ALL religion is based in mund control and total greed….
July 7th, 2008 at 11:23 am
Let’s not forget that Carlin made it point to say he did not have an agenda, he just wanted to stand on the sidelines and make fun of everyone else. He also had a bit on not washing your hands after you go to the bathroom, unless you crap on your hand, which he claimed was two, three times a week for him, tops. So let’s not get too serious about this.
July 7th, 2008 at 11:07 pm
One thing about the silly rant about Genesis is that: A) It tell the creation story in two different ways; B) It NEVER says anything about Satan being the snake; C) God supposedly knows the end from the beginning so it seems unjust, and therefore not worthy of devotion, that he would punish man for a decision he KNEW he’d make before he gave him the option to make it. If a person in person in authority (police officer) gives a loaded gun with a hair trigger to a person they have authority over (child) who should be punished when the child kills someone? People really need to READ their bible and actually THINK about what it is saying if they want to make decent arguments for it instead of relying on second hand knowledge and regurgitating propaganda.
July 8th, 2008 at 9:16 am
I thought I would share this with you people, just so you know a few facts. This is not saying I don’t believe in a God, or a Supreme Being, I do. I don’t believe in evolution only for the reason it’s just hard to believe we all came about from a single cell, yeah right!! Plus, that hasn’t been proven either, go figure?
What do these names all have in common?
Horus, Egyptian god, 3000 BC - Attis, Greece, 1200 BC - Krishna, India, 900 BC - Dionysus, Greece, 500 BC - Mithra, Persia, 1200 BC and Jesus Christ.
All were born Dec. 25th, born of a virgin, Star in the East, adored by 3 Kings, teachers at the age of 12, baptized/ministry at 30, 12 disciples, performed miracles, betrayed, crucified, dead for 3 days, resurrected.
Look it up for yourself if you don’t believe me. There is no proof that Jesus ever existed. The Bible is no more than an Astro-theological literary hybrid!!! The Bible is completely astrological. Constantine had the Bible made up in 300 AD to control the people!!! That’s all religion is, a control for people who can’t see, or do for themselves.
Argue all you want about your good book, but it’s a farce, it was and always will be!!!!
George Carlin was not a fool, he could see right through RELIGION!!!!!!
July 8th, 2008 at 12:31 pm
Hey BC,
Nice numerology there. Correct, there is no proof of Jesus. Obviously no proof of angels declaring his arrival etc. But what is historical proof? How do we know any of the great Kings existed? Where’s the video? We don’t have that, but we do have writing. Paper was invented right around Jesus’ time, so plenty of non-religious scholars accept that he was a real guy. None of them believe in the whole Bethlehem thing, but that’s a story, designed to interest people, and have them believe Jesus is part of this line going back to Abraham. I don’t care about that, because I’m not a Jew living in the first century. I do care about the messages contained in the parables, they are still good, and I don’t want to see them discarded because we can’t separate a story from it’s message.
George is right to challenge the dogma that God is up in the sky and could intervene at any moment. Notice that he never says, “and that love your neighbor crap, what a bunch a bull”. Check out his history, he went to a Catholic school with a bunch of liberal Nuns who were experimenting with an open system, one where the kids were allowed to question anything.
July 9th, 2008 at 1:37 am
BC - its not about ‘believing’ in evolution - its just that there is an abundance of evidence to suggest that is exactly what has happened. Its fair to say the chances of evolving from single celled life forms to human beings over 3,800,000,000 years are higher than say noah being able to put 2 of every animal on board the ark wouldnt you say?
And evolution has been witnessed and documented in progress many times - at a microbial level.
July 9th, 2008 at 7:42 am
Jayman,
Thanks for post 90. I was about to post similar and you saved me the trouble.
And now, re religious boats that don’t float, to me, it’s kind of funny to put your “ark” comment together with the “Titanics” of post 81. :-)
Cheers,
Korgan
Religion is a disease of the mind. Inoculate against it with reason.
July 9th, 2008 at 7:03 pm
Jayman,
Who said I was religious? Get a grip!!!
As far as watching evolution in a dish, ask yourself this question, where did the scientists get the single cell to study? Anything they study already is, they can’t make cells, and if they did, we would have to assume they are creators.
Our planet has been destroyed how many times? Life that existed upon it was also destroyed during those times. So stating we have been evolving for billions of years is a false statement.
The Bible is a book of fables, religions are BS and there has been documented proof of scientists making claims of discoveries that have proved false.
Believe what you want, doesn’t make a difference to me, but please, in the future, get your facts straight.
BC
July 9th, 2008 at 7:45 pm
John,
It’s not Numerology, every character is a myth, they never existed. They weren’t kings, they were gods, worshiped in the past by what we call the ancients.
Let me explain. Sirius is the East Star, the 3 Kings are Orion’s Belt, birth of “God’s Sun” is on the Winter’s Solstice, Dec. 25th, virgin Mary is Virgo, Bethlehem’s meaning is house of bread, Dec. 22, 23 and 24th symbolizes death to the ancients. Meaning that the sun seems to stop moving south for 3 days and it dwells in the vicinity of the Southern Cross constellation ( Crux ) before it begins to rise again on the 25th of Dec., that’s where the resurrection also comes in.
Also let me point out the Miracle Birth (born of a virgin) was 15 centuries before Christianity. Jesus is in the age of Pisces, symbol of the 2 fish, note that he always fed the people with 2 fish. The coming of age according to the Bible is a man bearing water, Aquarius will be the next New Age, we are still in the age of Pisces.
There is more to this than what I have written here, but the basis of the Bible was purely astrological, no factual evidence, just the readings from the night sky above our heads, the sun and moon, and the changing of the seasons.
Have a nice day,
BC
July 10th, 2008 at 10:47 am
I am reminded of a study in which scientists filled a tank with what they believed were the conditions of pre-life Earth and set to applying sparks (i.e. lightning). What do ya know, they were able to form the basic building blocks of life (i.e. DNA). Given enough time the DNA would become more abundant, mix together, mutant, and finally form cells. Problem is, we don’t have long enough life spans to prove that. But we have proven that microbes do evolve since we can witness hundreds of their generations, and that pre-life Earth could have spontaneously formed DNA.
July 10th, 2008 at 12:52 pm
Sorry BC, for flippantly characterizing your post. You are explaining that certain parts of the Bible are mythical, and I don’t disagree. Such as the virgin birth in Bethlehem, definitely a story designed to raise Jesus up to God-hood and claim his lineage back to Abraham, or whomever. The December 25th date was set by Constantine, FYI, not in the Bible. But that’s not important to me.
My reference to “Kings” was a challenge to the question of what is historical proof. There are many historical figures that are not questioned, but we only know they existed because a bunch of people wrote about them. I’m willing to accept the conclusions of historians (many non-Christian) who accept that the non-miraculuos parts of the story happened, with some degree of error due to oral tradition, etc.
We now know a lot more about what is above the clouds, and how the earth rotates on a tilted axis creating the “ages” you speak of. It is our job to accept that people who wrote these stories didn’t know these things, and try to understand what it was they were dealing with. Seems to me it was someone pretty special, someone worth discussing.
Thomas Jefferson literally separated the myth from the (possibly) factual story, by rewriting the gospels without the miracles and angels and junk, http://books.google.com/books?id=kBZUJvBwZB8C&dq=thomas+jefferson+bible&pg=PP1&ots=n15FMXyFkK&sig=0WToF7×8UbumYIxt27VH90QNono&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=1&ct=result#PPA92,M1
July 14th, 2008 at 1:50 am
RIP George. You will be missed. I’m so glad I got to see him back in January a few months before he died.
Check out georgecarlin.com and go past the intro and read a section of his will. He wanted a total secular event following his death. I’m sure he got it. I found it completely interesting.
April 14th, 2009 at 10:34 pm
I would just like to comment on the violent attitudes of the religious believers comments. I always notice that when you don’t agree with the views and comments of the so called (Christian’s) that they always are the first to get insulting and violent toward non-believers! It’s KILL the Infidel’s syndrome! You always get your “stupid” or “ignorant” or something worse from the believers if you try to just not believe! Where is my So-Called-Free-Will in that? Religious people are why we have so much violence in this world. because they cause the conflict of to believe or not believe! I do not believe there is a supreme being coming to save any of us! We are all alone in this and that has me even more scared! for I have no faith in man-kind ever getting past it’s violent selfish nature! Not too mention what we are doing to our own planet! Our ONLY HOME!
April 15th, 2009 at 12:02 am
Ron, for this is not my only home, for my home is with my Father. You, Ron have another home if you see that Jesus came to save the dead and as you put it violent and selfish, let Jesus Christ show you how much He loves you or just be in a place like this funny guy on this clip.
April 22nd, 2009 at 8:03 pm
Science must harmonise with the Bible with the Bible being the Standard for science and whatever else to match up to. Science is ever changing as the years roll by. Scientists theories and findings keep changing so texts get updated. men just floating another man’s ideas in changing times and developments. The Bible, the words of God, never changes. Remains the same yesterday, today and will remain forever. Archaeologists are discovering that bible history are true. Scientists are discovering there’s someone in control. Those who don’t believe that Jesus Christ paid the price for your sins and life has been given to you freely because of what He has done are already damned.
Give yourselves a trial run. Read a chapter in the Bible daily for three months and see if you are still the same person. Challenge yourself and see. Go buy yourself a Holy Bible. I guarentee you won’t be the same. God Bless evryone.
April 23rd, 2009 at 9:44 am
April 23rd, 2009 at 5:23 pm
Alllost, it is not credible for anyone to take the bible as a standard for anything, when it is not even self-consistent.
Furthermore it is extremely annoying for you to claim that many of us here have not read the bible. Get a grip. Most westerners are force-fed that absurd collection of fairy tales known as the bible from early childhood onward.
It is appalling in the modern world that anyone still buys into this nonsense of your bible as a “standard” considering all that has been shown to be wrong in the bible, such as how diseases propagate, how the earth was populated, the age and shape of the earth, and much much more.
Perhaps you yourself should read a basic science textbook. And then some modern biology.
Religion is for the ignorant, the gullible, and the stupid, and for those who would profit from them.