It pains me to no end that I missed this story a few months ago. However, thanks to the Daily Show, it’s been resurrected for your entertainment.
To make a long story short, a Muslim group known as the Katy Islamic Association, has purchased a plot of land in a small Texas community in hopes of building a mosque. Much to my amazement the local white Christian population is not too pleased. After a failed attempt to repurchase the land from the Muslims, the owner of the land next door has coincidently started the Friday Night Pig Races.
Lucky for us The Daily Show is on the scene to investigate. What unfolds is quite disturbing, yet hilarious at the same time. This is so fitting for a state that produced President George Bush. I have little hope for the future of this country when I watch this. Yes, it’s that insane.
Related posts:
- Beware–Christian Vandals On The Loose!
- Behold The Great Allah Miracle!
- Global Warming–Satan’s Great Diversion
- Flamethrower! Primetime Christian Ignorance
- Pastor Ted Haggard The Horrible
March 5th, 2007 at 10:37 pm
Hey, I would just like to take a moment to defend my state. There are a LOT of Texans who are intolerant and ignorant, but there is also a fairly large minority who abhor this kind of thinking. I’d also like to say you give us too much credit for Dubya, the guy was not born in Texas even though he moved here at a young age, and he is a different kind of stupid than we usually get in Texas.
March 5th, 2007 at 11:02 pm
Nice to see all that “Love thy neighbour” and “Turn the other cheek” teachings at work. I always think it is nice to see such different and diverse cultures and beliefs co-existing in such harmony. Putting aside their differences. Putting into practise what they preach for the benifit of themselves and their community.
March 5th, 2007 at 11:19 pm
@Simon “Nice to see all that “Love thy neighbour†and “Turn the other cheek†teachings at work”.
Why is it religious people don’t practise what they preach? I think it may have something to do with religions being very jelous entities that require adherents to see all other religious entities as being wrong and fostering hostility….
C’mon people, your imaginary friend just has to grow up and accept that other peoples’ imaginary friend wants to play in the sandpit too. Make little god and allah and budda share, ok?
March 6th, 2007 at 9:23 am
Bah, you don’t have to look that far back to see most religions only recently became ‘peaceful’ and ‘turn-the-other-cheek’…
Religion was never in the first place about love or forgiveness or eternal bliss… it was all about evading the wrath of ‘he-who-controls-bad-weather-and-diseases’ with rituals and observances. That and of course, promoting power and wealth in religious leaders…
Religions, like cultural ideas, evolve and mold to the need of the society it is in. That’s why you see so much difference between catholics from quebec and catholics from the Us, autrichian muslims and saoudian muslims…
March 6th, 2007 at 9:33 am
Fuck muslims.
Fuck Christians
Fuck ‘em all.
March 6th, 2007 at 12:07 pm
I don’t know whether I should laugh or cry, so I laughed. I work for a guy who immigrated from England, as well as his #2 who is of Pakistani descent (and Muslim). They have good humor, but I am not sure I would take a chance on showing them this clip.
March 6th, 2007 at 12:33 pm
I’m with randpost.
March 6th, 2007 at 12:34 pm
Well, did any of you read the famer’s account of what happened? If so, why do you dismiss his story of the muslims’ arrogant demands? Is he just automatically a liar because he’s from Texas? You’re forgetting that islam is the most intolerant religion on earth, bent on converting the entire world, and that the farmer’s account fits perfectly with their pattern of peevish demands for special rights.
March 6th, 2007 at 1:18 pm
Well this is “obviously” not about religion. No, this guy is racing an animal that is found filthy and a sin to touch in not one, but two religions. Had the Jews wanted a synagogue in the area he would have done the same thing. These folks aren’t anti-Muslim, they are anti-anything from the middle east. See, not about race or religion. It is about roughly what section of the world your non-Jesus worshiping ancestors came from.
March 6th, 2007 at 1:21 pm
proof, just curious, but what metrics did you use to determine Islam is the most intolerant religion?
Also, Christianity has the same goal as Islam, converting everyone :)
March 6th, 2007 at 1:28 pm
@proofNOTtruth: Please note, we are not saying the Muslims are right. We are just saying intolerance of a person because of which mythological creature he or she worships is just plain silly. The Muslims need to realize that they don’t have to eat the pigs. The neighbors need to realize these Muslims have purchased the land and, as long as all permits and legalities are in order, they can build whatever the hell they want on their land. If they want to stop them they need to petition the agency issuing the building permits to enforce zoning ordinances, not purposely race pigs on their holy day.
March 6th, 2007 at 2:05 pm
Well, in his defense, I wouldn’t watch a bunch of crazy ass religious people moving in next door. Muslim or Christian.
March 6th, 2007 at 3:03 pm
“I wouldn’t watch a bunch of crazy ass religious people moving in next door. Muslim or Christian.”
The muslims in that community aren’t suddenly moving in, they alreday live there and simply wish to build their own place of worship. Also, these people are building a mosque ,community centre and possibly an athletic facility. What is crazy about that? If you ask me, I think the guy in that clip who said “get a rope and a good tree” is crazy. I’d rather live near a religious temple than a bunch of racist ethnocentrics.
March 6th, 2007 at 4:09 pm
Racist ethnocentrists who are more than likely Christian. The best breeder of hate and intolerance is religion. It hides hate under the guise of righteous indignation. It creates an excuse for hate that masks the fact that this crap is no better than the Nazis and KKK. It always has. Do you think the Jews would have supported Joshua when he was ordered to commit genocide if it wasn’t claimed under religious auspices? Or how about a similar massacre under Saul?
March 6th, 2007 at 4:20 pm
Having lived near both a mosque and a church, I can say that being called to prayer 5 times a day is NOT something you want next to your house. Neither is being woken up by 15 damn minutes of bell ringing on my only day to sleep late.
Of course, if without a minaret and loudspeakers, I can’t imagine WTF is wrong with a building?
The guy’s is obviously an idiot who’s totally taken to the image the media try to shove down your throat that Muslim = evil
Also, I wonder if it is illegal to burn crosses in your own backyard…. What if i tell them it’s a “lower case T”???
March 6th, 2007 at 4:23 pm
Well, muslim countries do not allow non-muslims to build houses of worship, wear signs of their religion, or worship in any public way. This includes our good friends and allies, the saudis, for example. Under sharia law, non-muslims must pay a tax to become third class citizens, they cannot testify against a muslim in court, nor do they have recourse to legal rememdies against muslims. They can be murdered with impunity, as there is no penalty for killing an infidel. That’s a start. Or have any of you seen the heartbreaking photo of the two 16 year old boys (in Iran) being hanged for being gay? Even the wildest eyed xians usually leave killing gay people to god (with his hurricanes and lighning and AIDS, and so on.) Even Fred Phelps is willing to just let gay people burn in hell.
The punishment for leaving islam? Death. The punishment for criticizing or mocking islam? Death. It goes on and on. Draw a picture of the prophet? Riots, burning, and death. The aztecs had nothing on muslims for their love of death.
Go to jihadwatch.com or thereligionofpeace.com and see their intolerence. Or just look through this site and compare the freaky xians and jews to the crazy mulsims.
As for Christians wanting to convert the world, yes, they do. If they fail, however, they leave the rest to god. If you do not convert to islam, you’re murdered or condemned to third class citizenship until someone decides to kill you. Christians do not (for the vast most part)carry out the savage demands of the old testament god (kill disrespectful children, for instance); muslims do still carry out savageries against…everyone, including their own. (And, no, not all muslims. Maybe even the majority of muslims condemn their savage coreligious, but not outloud, you notice. Why? They come under threat of death.)
And still no one answered why you assume the farmer is lying.
March 6th, 2007 at 4:58 pm
I’m with the pig racer.
We don’t need to tolerate foreign influence on our own land. Stand up America. Too much tolerance will dilute the fabric that makes us the proud nation that we are.
We all have to make some concessions, but we do not need to change our landscape to fit the needs of unwanted influences in our communities.
And I just voted to halt a Walmart Megastore from being built in a nice quiet neighborhood…
Go Pigracer!!!
March 6th, 2007 at 5:04 pm
@proofNOTTruth
Both of the websites that he is referring to are extremely radical-centric hate sites against Islam. As much as I have issues with religion as a whole, we should definetly NOT promote outright hate. The sites also are very pro-Xtian. It is a disturbing day for me, when I find information like that online. For every passage that you pull out of the Quran that promotes violence, you can pull a similar passage out of the bible. Many different types of faith follow a different set of rules, and sites like those that promote an entire religion as being violent at it’s core are nothing but slander.
March 6th, 2007 at 5:38 pm
It seems to me that nobody involved in this case is excercising any tolerance, respect or possibly even courtesy toward each other.
Stop worrying about what your neighbours are doing people and look after your own back yard.
As for “Love your neighbour” being a new thing for christianity, true however that is what they are teaching now and the events we are talking about are happening now. I just would like them to practise all this love and peace that they are preaching. Instead of leaving it up to me the non religous person to practise tolerence for all their different beliefs.
March 6th, 2007 at 5:57 pm
@proofnottruth:”As for Christians wanting to convert the world, yes, they do. If they fail, however, they leave the rest to god.”
I call bullsh*t. Christians take out doctors who perform abortions. Christians take out christians who follow a slightly different version of christianity. The only think that christians don’t seem to do is follow christ’s teachings. They do however follow the dogma of their version of christianity quite well.
March 6th, 2007 at 7:17 pm
proof, you need a history lesson. Since my teaching class is on break, I’ll give it to you.
Well, muslim countries do not allow non-muslims to build houses of worship, wear signs of their religion, or worship in any public worship.
Actually, plenty of Muslim countries allow this. Look at Bosnia, Catholic churches inside Sarajevo, controlled by the Bosnian/Muslim government survived, unlike mosques in the control of the VRS or HVO. Albania is much the same.
Additionally, in Maryland, until 1776, Protestants refused Catholics all thethe rights you claim Muslims deny everyone else. So, it seems this problem is common to all religions that gain a measure of control, not just Islam.
“sharia law, non-muslims must pay a tax to become third class citizens” True, but this also occurred in maryland before the revolution. So again, this is an issue with all religions that gain control, not just Islam.
“They can be murdered with impunity, as there is no penalty.for killing an infidel” is an exxageration. Otherwise there would be no Serbs, Bulgarians, Croats, Macedonians, and other non-Turks in the area controlled by the old ottoman empire.
As for killing for “infidels”, look at what the Catholic Ustashi did to Serbs for being a different religion. Al-Qaeda has only begun to reach the level of brutuality the Ustashi demonstrated during WWII.
“The punishment for leaving islam? Death. The punishment for criticizing or mocking islam? Death. It goes on and on. Draw a picture of the prophet? Riots, burning, and death”
This was common in the West as well. Also, did you notice how the riots about the Danish cartoons occurred in places that have A) weak governments and B) problems in the West? That might explain the lack of rioting in Bosnia, which is plurality majority “Muslim”.
As for the rest of the stuff, first I have no idea what the farmer said, I have no sound card in the computers I am using. Second, for the rest of your rant, look at the weakness of government, Athen’s theory of violentization, among others for why the Middle East is so violent.
Islam is just the same as any other religion, with some societal factors aggravating the situation.
March 6th, 2007 at 7:47 pm
Proof,
Have you been in ME?, I don’t think so, I bet you that you just sitting in your home watching Fox news, and you say your opinion based on that.
In Egypt Christian live since Islam came to Egypt, and they still exist, they have their churches and more than that they have their own laws when it comes to marriage and divorce based on their religion and their church, which something not existed in USA, I have to obide to USA law which mostly Christian law.
you need to watch better news than Fox news.
USA has the worst media in the whole world, just focus on the local news, and no education about what’s going on the rest of the world, and I think that’s intentinoly done, so when they tell somebody like proof that Muslims are bad guys, you found proof repeat the same.
March 6th, 2007 at 8:54 pm
Mohamed, what you say about Egypt is fine. The Coptic church has been around for yonks. But why can’t non-muslims travel to Mecca? Muslims are free to build mosques in Rome. Seems a bit of a one way street.
Not that I’m advocating that one religion is better than other. I think they are all sad wastes of peoples’ lifes, energies and talents. Just pointing out that all religions are jealous and don’t practise what they preach.
March 6th, 2007 at 10:21 pm
Just so everyone knows, not all of Texas is like this. I fortunately live in one of those little nuggets of sanity.
March 7th, 2007 at 12:09 am
I live about a 45min drive from Katy TX, if I don’t go during rush hour. Katy is one of the most stupidly stirred up by right-wing radio suburban places you could ever find in this country. Unfortunately, even though Houston’s core and many of its suburbs are quite liberal some of our congressional districts were gettymandered into oblivion by Bush (as governor), DeLay, and Perry.
Don’t worry, Texas will soon go Blue. We create jobs and new products. We pay more in taxes than we receive in spending and subsidies. We suffer little from the social pathologies that plague the Republican dominated red states. And Perry even tried to push through that sinful HPV vaccine.
March 7th, 2007 at 1:17 am
Don’t misunderstand me, I’m not defending Egypt or any Muslim country, there are a lot of stupidty in the area, but it’s not that bad, people don’t have such hate you imagine against USA, it’s the media again.
March 7th, 2007 at 11:01 am
Sorry, I am having a captain of the obvious moment here. I think I speak for the majority here when I say any time religion infiltrates secular government, you get retarded laws and legalized discriminatory practices. Pick any country, including the good old USA, and any law based in religious practice ends in discrimination, hatred, and general retardedness. Gay marriage bans=retarded. Gays in the military=retarded. Segregation and slavery (both founded on the Judeo-Christian belief that black people are descendants of Cain and therefore lower than animals)=hatred and discrimination. Attempts to teach Intelligent Design as science=retarded. I could go on but you get the point. All religious influence should be removed from government. That is all.
And to the religious amongst us getting their panties in a wad asking where our government would get its morals if not religion I say, “Keep your traps shut.” Religion is NOT the source of morals and is often the excuse to be IMMORAL. DEAL WITH IT. Mythological creatures do not a moral fiber make.
March 7th, 2007 at 12:14 pm
@DeusExMichael
I agree with you, and I even think “retarded” is even a OK choice of word, since I see religion as backward and as holding up positive progress of humanity.
It is also really encouraging to see any effort to push back against the influence of church on state, even if that effort is just a post on a forum.
K.
March 7th, 2007 at 12:59 pm
@Korgan: Thanks. The way I see it, if just one of my posts on the various blogs/forums I belong to opens the eyes of one person to the delusion of religion, I have been a success. If that person goes on to open one more person’s eyes and so on, I have begun a revolution.
March 7th, 2007 at 6:04 pm
@DeusExMichael “If that person goes on to open one more person’s eyes and so on,I have begun a revolution.”
Amen to that brother!
Use your minds people! It’s not ok just to accept the crap that was shoved down your throat before you were too young to develop a crap filter. And for those who say that some people chose religion after years of non belief , so what? Many people suffer from delusions, doesn’t make it worthy.
March 8th, 2007 at 12:38 am
Segregation and slavery (both founded on the Judeo-Christian belief that black people are descendants of Cain and therefore lower than animals)
That’s a first. I’ve never heard that before. I thought it was an economic thing. I do know however that the first person to give the Islamic call to prayer was a black man. I think you have this fact wrong.
An unrelated observation. I’m just guessing that the majority of the agnostics and atheists that frequent this site are from the west. Most of the criticisms seem to start because most of the religious people they see (on a day to day basis - forget what the media says) don’t practice any of the good things they preach and so, a non-religious person becomes much more admirable than a religious one.
However, where I come from, that isn’t the case. The majority of people are loosely religious and go about their rituals (sheep as such people are often referred to on this site) and are so-so. But the people who are truly knowledgeable about their faiths and practice it seriously are really exemplary in behaviour and ethics. I’ve not met any agnostic/atheistic people (and I have met a few of them) who exhibit character as good as these people. Of course, this is not to say that all atheists are bad people. I’m sure there are lots of nice ones out there but if someone were to ask me based on my experience whether a strong religious belief makes one a better person, I’d definitely say yes.
This is not a point about the (non)existence of God so let’s not go there. I’m just saying that (to me) many of the statements people make here stem from seeing how corruptive religion is among the people they interact with. My experiences are different.
March 8th, 2007 at 1:01 pm
@N: The problem with lumping all Atheists into one group is Atheism isn’t a religion. We all came to the conclusion there is no God via different methods and Atheism itself does not dictate moral fiber. Most of the Atheists here have developed a strong moral fiber and only wish the world to be free of the corrupting influence belief in a lie has. Others are amoral and have no belief in anything. Those are the ones the religious like to point out as “tools of the devil”. The Richard Dawkins styled Atheists here have learned to be moral for the sake of morality and the inherent goodness that provides, not because a bearded old man in the sky will beat us down if we are not.
March 9th, 2007 at 12:30 am
I tried not to lump atheists into a group. I did mention that there probably are atheists who are very nice people.
It’s just that from my experience (online and in real life), I’ve found people who adhere closely to the tenets of a religion to be morally superior to those who don’t. In the latter category, I include atheists, agnostics and people who “claim” to follow a certain religion but aren’t willing to make the sacrifices necessary to attain that level of character I’m talking about. This is a personal experience though and maybe my sampling was biassed.
I don’t have much respect for Dawkins after I saw his speeches at the beyond belief 2006 event. He came across as someone who simply refuses to see what religious people do. That’s the kind of bigotry I see most often with crazy “religious freaks” and it’s problem rather than a constructive attitude.
March 9th, 2007 at 1:52 am
Many people suffer from delusions, doesn’t make it worthy.
I don’t think there are many people suffering from “delusions” who’d be able to make the same contributions to society as say.. Martin Luther King did.
March 10th, 2007 at 11:12 pm
Hey, you wanna know my take on it.
Honestly, what sort of muslims opens up a mosque in fucking Texas.
They are fucking retarded and deserve this.
March 13th, 2007 at 3:22 am
The muslims are being stupid for even being offended — they’re just falling for the guy’s taunting.
Yeah, the guy’s doing it to piss them off, but it’s not so different from having a restaurant that served pork near the facility.
If he REALLY wanted to offend, he’d name the racing pigs after the various titles/names attributed to Muhammad.
March 13th, 2007 at 4:54 am
for the record: bush is not from texas… and many texans shake their heads whenever he slaps on a cowboy hat and pretends to clear brush.
“He’s not from Texas and he ain’t a cowboy, so let’s stop trashin’ Texas and cowboys.” ~ Willie Nelson
March 22nd, 2007 at 1:50 pm
Hoodlum, I hope I have not missed you and that you will see this. After my
humiliation in the face of your greater knowledge, I retreated to the corner
where I sat with my head bowed in contrition for daring to think I might know
something, hence my long silence. My apologies.
And yet, some questions remain about your history lesson. Were I to roll all
my questions into one, the short version might be: When? I believe that when
things happened are germane to deciding if I am wrong in my assertion that Islam
is the most intolerant of religions. So, Hoodlum, when?
For example, something that was done by Christians up until 1776 hardly
disproves my point, nor does it mitigate Islamic violence and intolerance. Can you
point to any examples of murderous intolerance by other religions that are
going on now? I ask because islamists are murdering people every day, usually
several times a day, in many parts of the world, in the name of Islam, with ample support for their actions from the Quran and the commentaries. Is there a Christian, Jewish, or
Buddhist equivalent?
As for Bosnia, Serbia and Albania, my recollection is that those parts of the
world were part of the Austro-Hungarian Empire for most of the 19th century
and of the Soviet empire for most of the 20th. Am I wrong? If not, then perhaps
during the Austro-Hungarian period, churches were indeed built given that the
Empire was Christian in government and dominant culture. Hardly a strong
refutation of my statement. As for the Soviet period, I doubt many houses of
worship of any kind were built, so this point you make is doubly irrelevant. And today,
are there not still peacekeeping forces in that area? If so, the jury is still
out on the tolerance of the local Muslims for their infidel neighbors.
And no, the Ottomans did not slaughter all infidels – I did not say they did.
Indeed, why would they do so when they were the only part of the population
that could be legally (under sharia) taxed? (You mention Maryland having similar laws - more
than 200 years ago. Again irrelevant. What about today?) And I wonder what the Armenians would say to you. It might also be useful to remember what I
actually wrote: “They can be murdered with impunity, as there is no penalty for
killing an infidel.” Murdered. I meant that if a Muslim kills an infidel there is
no penalty – this is sharia law. In fact, an infidel cannot even testify under
sharia law or bring suit against a Muslim. I was not talking mass murder,
though Mohammed condoned and ordered mass murders and rapes in his lifetime, a
fact that is used by islamist murderers to justify their murders. Christ at his
most angry drives the moneychangers from the temple and blasts a fig tree. Hardly on the same scale as Mohammed’s atrocities.
As for the cartoon riots, did you notice they happened wherever the European
imams went and stirred up the population? Did you ever wonder where rural
villagers in Pakistan got so many Danish flags to burn or even how they found out
about the cartoons? Rural Pakistan is not exactly the crossroads of the world.
Anyway, the riots might have been confined to the countries you mention, but
the demonstrations were not. They happened all through Europe. Have you missed
the “freedom go to hell” “behead all those who insult Islam” pictures? It
would be instructive to also remember the “piss Christ” controversy in the USA a
few years back. I recall no riots, no burning of buildings and cars, no
deaths, no calls for anyone’s death, just an attempt (somewhat successful) to reduce
NEA grants. For all the intolerance of Christian fundamentalists, very few of
them call for the deaths of nonbelievers, do they? I don’t believe even Fred
Phelps does that, but I have not looked at his site for awhile, so I might be
wrong.
Islam is NOT just like all other religions. It is not aggravating social
factors that drive the islamists. Do you know that almost all of the Muslim
terrorist murderers that we know anything about were educated, middle-class people?
So what social factors do you think aggravated them? I submit that it was
purely and simply Islam, which for true believers is synonymous with society.
I am no fan of any religion mind you, but if I had to chose one to live
under, it would be Buddhism or Jainism or even Christianity. I doubt you yourself
would chose Islam for all your pc rush to defend it. If you would choose Islam,
I can only hope to hear from you after you have gazed down the barrel of
sharia law for a few years; you might be piping a different tune.
Islam has no equivalent of the anti-violence teachings of those three
religions. Yes, Christianity was once violent as was Buddhism (Ashoka, for example),
but it is no longer so. And Judaism, though it follows the Old Testament, is
not known for producing terrorists. (Yes, there were Jewish terrorists more
than 50 years ago in Palestine/Israel, but their numbers were few, they did not
kill indiscriminately, and they no longer exist.) Christianity, in a limited
sense, grew up. In fact, the covenant with God that Christ represented wiped out
the Old Testament (I know about the “not one iota of the law” bible verse,
but in practical terms, the Old Testament has been largely left behind and that
is where the violence was.) These religions do not give rise to terrorists
like Islam does, in no small part because peace and love are both inherent and
explicit in their scriptures. That is decidedly untrue of Islam. And that is the
point. Your measly exceptions do not refute the point.
One last thing: I am puzzled by your apparent pride in not knowing the pig
farmer’s side of the story. His site spells it out in writing, so not having a
sound card does not excuse you. An example of the American bias against the South?
One more disturbing fact about Muslims, moderate, western Muslims: Recent polls indicate that anywhere from 20% to almost 50% of Muslims (depending on the country) would approve the imposition of Sharia law in their adopted western countries. Also, we see them taking to the streets for so-called insults to their religion by non-Muslims, but can you tell me of one comparable demonstration in protest to the alleged high jacking of their religion by extremists? One demonstration at the atrocities committed by terrorists in the name of Islam?
By the way, where is Boris? Do you have anything to add?
There were a few other responses to my post which I will answer briefly.
To Quintalis: They are not hate sites. They merely report the news. They
contain reasoned arguments and responses to Islamic actions, and those who would
defend Islam always come back to the hate speech and racist argument and name-calling
because they cannot refute what the sties actually say. And why not? Because the
writings there are all based on the Quran, and all the centuries of commentary
that surround it, and the words of the islamist murderers themselves quoting
those sources. I urge all the rest of you, though, to go and look for
yourselves with an open mind. And then show me one bit of hate speech that you found
there. Why is it Muslim apologists call any criticism of the religion “hate
speech” even when the criticism is based on sound scholarship? Yes, some of their
links are to sites that are more right wing than I care for (and I am in a
dialog with some of those sites since I find myself in unaccustomed company when
I agree with people on an issue when otherwise they are too far right for my
taste), but they are only reporting what islamist say and do, verifiably say
and do. To call it hate speech is just intolerance.
To Skids: Yes, one or two Christians have murdered doctors over the abortion
issue. One or two. Get it? As for Christians “taking out” other Christians,
name them. And do not name Ireland where religion is just another form of
politics; that was not a religious war in the same sense that islamists are engaged
in religious war against us. It’s insulting to intelligence and morality to
suggest that Christians today, or any followers of any one of the big religions
except Islam, are the moral equivalent of islamist murderers of thousands of
children, women, and men. Darfur? 9/11? Sixteen year old Thai girls beheaded by Muslim insurgents? Hundreds of murdered Chenyan children? Can you point to one Christian equivalent of these atrocities (from this century)? You should be ashamed for even suggesting such a thing. And, believe me, I am no fan of Christians.
And, plenty of Christians follow the teachings of Christ, don’t kid yourself,
just as many Muslims follow the teachings of Mohammed. It’s just that Christ
did not condone murder, rape, and pedophilia. You see, islamists also practice
what their religion preaches. Again, not all religions are equal. If you
think so, which would you chose to live under?
To N: Many Christians believe that black people are descended from Ham, not
Cain. The bible does not seem to support either view, however.
March 22nd, 2007 at 5:41 pm
Hoodlum
“Islam is just the same as any other religion, with some societal factors aggravating the situation.”
ProofNOTtruth
“If you think so, which would you chose to live under?”
ProofNOTtruth (peace be upon you) That was a great reading and a beautiful wellwritten post. You have actually made people wiser.
March 23rd, 2007 at 10:08 am
Hello ProofNOTtruth,
I agree with Ulrik, your post is fantastic. You emerged from your chagrined, reflective period with a well worded apology and better thought-out and more powerfully stated ideas.
I do, however, agree with Hoodlum on at least one point, “Islam is just the same as any other religion, with some societal factors aggravating the situation.†As you pointed out yourself, Christianity has plenty of justification for violence and oppression, but ignores the OT in practice. The major reason they have done this is because of improved social factors.
You maybe right that Muslims have violence and oppression more entwined in their religion than others, though. I simply don’t know enough about the details of the religion to give an informed opinion.
March 23rd, 2007 at 12:28 pm
Hello Ulrick and sidfaiwu - Thank you for your friendly comments on my post. I did not know what to expect from other posters actually. I started coming here to laugh at the “madonna on the cookie sheet” kind of story and never intended to become a poster. It’s just that I have become increasingly worried over the large number of people who want to kill Americans and Europeans and the fact that so many of us in the west, out of the sense of fairness that our culture usually instills in us, have a blind spot about just what and who we are up against. All I want to do is enjoy my family, friends, tropical fish, books, and garden, but I have to worry about the kind of world our next generation will inherit if we do not solve the problem of islamist terrorism.
Sidfaiwu, you might look at Sam Harris’ book The End of Faith in which he includes something like 6 pages of unparagraphed, single spaced direct quotations from the Quran which are all commands to kill in the name of Islam.
Last night I watched The Clash of the Titans, a movie I enjoyed in my early 20s, which is a retelling of the Perseus story. At the end of the movie, Thetis asks Zeus what would become of them, the gods, if more heroes like Perseus were to appear who possessed courage and imagination. Zeus answers that they, the gods, would then no longer be necessary. Right on.
March 23rd, 2007 at 2:10 pm
Sidfaiwu you can also check out this webpage. It has some of the quotations from the Quran. http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Quran/023-violence.htm
In comparison New testament only have one violent phrase. Something about Jesus bringing the sword (I think). Old Testament is of course more violent but not as much as the Quran.
Also the Quran is supposed to be a collection of Gods eternal orders and wisdom and therefor not to be seen in its historical context. This makes it far more dangerous than the Old Testament.
Finally there is the desciptions of the “noblest man on earth” the prophet himself. In his time as a prophet he was according to ancient muslim text, responsible for assasinations on unarmed opponents, slavery, pedophilia, plunder, warfare, torture and executions of prisoners of war. Try compare that to the ancient desciptions of Jesus. As I recall he tipped over some tables in a temple or something.
Unfortunately Muhammed declared himself the last prophet making sure his violent words and deeds would stand forever. That’s how “great” a man he was.
March 24th, 2007 at 5:13 am
@proofNOTtruth
what a great post you wrote there. i cant imagine anyone could add or subtract from it in any way. thanks for saying what you said.
i know that every once in a while posts about “serbia” come up, and maybe that is where i can contribute. i grew up in a muslim ruled city (bosnia) in the middle of a civil war. at times i might have appeared quite extreme on this site, but i do believe it was not without reason. i can’t even describe the sights of import mujahedin marching through the streets of my home town, or how they terrorized non-muslim population. i hoped every day the “evil serbs” would march into town.
it’s all over now, but i look at some european countries. i hope to retire in germany one day, who knows how that is going to work out given the current muslim situation in western europe.
@ulrik
keep up the good work ulrik. we need people as eloquent as you saying their piece.
March 26th, 2007 at 12:21 pm
Thank you, Boris - We need all the first hand testimony that we can get about this global problem.
Good luck to you kn your future life.
April 4th, 2007 at 10:50 pm
Actual Quotes from the Koran
The Muslim Bible commands Muslims to murder all non-Muslims:
“O Prophet! Make war against the unbelievers [all non-Muslims] and the hypocrites and be merciless against them. Their home is hell, an evil refuge indeed.” (Koran, 9:73)
“When you meet the unbelievers in jihad [holy war], chop off their heads. And when you have brought them low, bind your prisoners rigorously. Then set them free or take ransom from them until the war is ended.” (Koran, 47:4)
“The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and his messenger and strive after corruption in the land will be to be killed or crucified, or to have their hands and feet chopped off on opposite sides, or to be expelled out of the land. Such will be their humiliation in the world, and in the next world they will face an awful horror.” (Koran, 5:33-34)
“When we decide to destroy a population, we send a definite order to them who have the good things in life and yet sin. So that Allah’s word is proven true against them, then we destroy them utterly.” (Koran, 17:16-17)
“In order that Allah may separate the pure from the impure, put all the impure ones [all non-Muslims] one on top of another in a heap and cast them into hell. They will have been the ones to have lost.” (Koran, 8:37)
“How many were the populations we utterly destroyed because of their sins, setting up in their place other peoples.” (Koran, 21:11)
“Remember Allah inspired the angels: I am with you. Give firmness to the believers. I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers: you smite them above their necks and smite all their fingertips off of them.” (Koran, 8:12)
April 4th, 2007 at 11:14 pm
James, make this your project :
Instead of copying and pasting verses of the Quran from anti-Islam websites, why don’t you actually read the Quran in its entirety? Chopping up verses into little sentences does not make up an entire book.
Take into context the historical references as well.
April 4th, 2007 at 11:47 pm
james,
More important than reading the Quran, is to learn more about the United States’ military interventions around the world.
It was the United States and other Western countries that went to Muslim countries and interfered with their governments, not the other way around. The United States toppled the democratically elected governmnet of Iran and replaced it with a puppet regime. The U.S. helped bring Saddam Hussein into power and supported him financially and strategically when he was committing his worst atrocities. THe United States played bothe side of the Iraq-Iran war, fueling the war and selling weapons to both sides. http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?SectionID=15&ItemID=2292
According to Ramsey Clark ( http://www.addictedtowar.com/docs/clark.htm ), Nobel Peace Prize Winner Henry Kissenger said at the beginning of that war, eight years the war, “I hope they kill each other.”
james, did it bother you when the United States recruited and trained Muslims to fight its proxy war in Afghanistan, against the Russians? This helped to bring about the collapse of the Soviet Union and made the United States the number one super power in the world. But after the war, Afghanistan was in ruins and the United States did not even try to help in reconstructing it.
james, I know you have a hatred of Muslims, so you will not acknowledge the deaths by the bombings, chemicals weapons, and agent provocateurs ( http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=viewArticle&code=20051015&articleId=1089 ) used against the Iraqis and Afghans. But since you are a highly moral and civilized human being, can you at least acknowledge the 3 to 5 milion Vietnamese that were killed in the 1960s and the many other military interventions by the United States in non-Muslim countries?
April 5th, 2007 at 8:27 am
“O Prophet! Make war against the unbelievers [all non-Muslims] and the hypocrites and be merciless against them. Their home is hell, an evil refuge indeed.†(Koran, 9:73)
Im sorry, how is a statement like that not totally sick in any context? Iv done a good amount of research, mostly to try to find religion when i was younger. Many of the statements made in the quran are either sick or downright scary, thats not to say the bible doesnt have them either. But of course your going blindly defend the book, you base your entire life on it.
April 5th, 2007 at 2:50 pm
irishthunder,
There are many Muslims who do not blindly follow the Quran, but the media does not give them the same attention that they give to the extremists.
Just like there are many Americans who do not blindly follow and believe what the government tells them, but the media does not give them the attention they deserve. In fact, you can say most of the maisntream media blindy follows what ever the government says.
July 25th, 2007 at 5:22 am
Why exactly should a building be allowed that spreads the message that “all non-muslims are lower than animals” ?
(koran 8:55)
… and should be killed in any way, in any manner possible, using deception, violence, terrorism …
(koran 9:5)
It does go on a bit there, but let’s just pick out one more : that ALL muslims are REQUIRED to participate in “fighting AND KILLING” for allah.
So who’s intolerant ?
July 25th, 2007 at 5:24 am
(and note that these verses are much MUCH more fundamental than “you shall not eat pig meat*”)
actually it states that you should not eat meat from either cows or pigs that “died on their own”, nor the “flesh of your fallen enemies”.
And let’s not ask ourselves why it was necessary to tell muslims not to kill prisoners of war for meat …
July 25th, 2007 at 8:43 am
The First Amendment.
July 25th, 2007 at 2:12 pm
Ah, sidfaiwu, you wouldn’t say shit if you had a mouthful would you?
Some legal exceptions to the First Amendment:
Advocating violence
Making false statements
Fighting words
Interference with another fundamental right - such as the right to stay alive
Threats
All of the exceptions would apply to teaching from the Koran.
July 25th, 2007 at 3:39 pm
Hello proofNOTtruth,
Actually, it is the advocating the violent overthrow of the government that has been limited. But incitement to crime is also restricted free speech, which could include advocating violence, I suppose. Also, making false statements is only partially limited. I’m free to lie as long as I don’t defame someone or lie to sell you a product (even that is permitted to some extent).
Also, these restrictions of the First Amendment are controversial, partial, and selectively enforced. Consider your typical gangsta rap CD. The artists often advocate violence and crime. The CDs also contain ‘fighting words’. Yet the law permits such things under the First Amendment.
Similar standards apply works of literature. Thus the same standards apply to the Qur’an. While it may be full of objectionable content, it’s still protected speech.
July 25th, 2007 at 6:27 pm
Sid and others,
8:55 For the worst of beasts in the sight of Allah are those who reject Him: They will not believe.
If you read it carfully here, you will understand better, God said those who rejects him, so there are who rejects him and there are who doesn’t reject him, I hope I made my point clear.
Second thing
9:4 (But the treaties are) not dissolved with those Pagans with whom ye have entered into alliance and who have not subsequently failed you in aught, nor aided any one against you. So fulfil your engagements with them to the end of their term: for Allah loveth the righteous.
9:5 But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, an seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practise regular charity, then open the way for them: for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.
So if you read section 9:4, you will understand why section 9:5 said what it said.
Again it depends on how you want to show Quran is bad to serve your purpose.
First section people put wrong words and they tried to explain it their way, second section they mention one part and they ignore the part which leads to it.
You will never find anything against Quran, it’s God word, and he knew some like you will attack the Quran, but if you read the Quran sincerly you will find your answers, instead going to the suspicious websites that fills your head with Kufer.
I’m really disappointed at Sid, and I know you might don’t even care, but I thought you will search the truth before you are going to such websites.
July 25th, 2007 at 6:54 pm
Mohamed, given your statements to the effect that we are looking at the wrong websites, or looking at incorrect translations of the Quran, what website(s) and what translation(s) of the Quran into English (English being the primary language on this site, although not always my own primary language) do you recommend as being the most accurate, such as you would use yourself in the quotes that you provide?
Please provide links if possible.
Thanks,
Korgan.
July 25th, 2007 at 7:11 pm
Korgan, here is this website http://www.muslimaccess.com.
It’s really good source for Quran translation, and if you need help to find your way through the web site, I will be gald to help you.
The other thing, that people get one verse with out reading what before and what after, which is not fair.
July 26th, 2007 at 1:24 am
By Allah, and Allah willing, if I take an oath and later find something else better than that. then I do what is better and expiate my oath†Sahih Bukhari 7:67:427.
July 26th, 2007 at 8:47 am
Sometimes I have trouble understanding you, Mohamed. On this post, I defended the right of Muslims to preach from the Qur’an and you comment that you are disappointed in me. I expected disappointment from the more militant atheists over my comment, but not from you. Perhaps you misunderstood my comment?
Thanks for the link, though. I’ll check that site out. Lastly, you are absolutely right when you say “The other thing, that people get one verse with out reading what before and what after, which is not fair.” Context is always important. I have one major handicap if I am ever to read the Qur’an, though. I suck a understanding poetry. From the excerpts that I have read, the Qur’an is highly poetic. Thus I am ill-equipped to understand it. This is why I would prefer a scholarly approach.
July 26th, 2007 at 6:12 pm
Sid,
I misunderstood you, I thought you were refering to the verse as the first amendment for Islam, I didn’t understand that you were refering to USA constitution, sorry for that.
Sorry if Quran was little bit hard, and you have to understand that it was challange for the people came to, and it had to be better than what they had, the only issue with the scholar approach, that these scholars lack objectivity, they are trying hard to get any thing against Islam rgerdless if it’s true or not.
July 27th, 2007 at 8:38 am
Ah I see. I should have been more clear.
I’m sure not all scholars take this approach. For instance, an Islamic scholar would lack objectivity as well. They would try very hard to mask anything against Islam regardless of whether it’s true or not. I need to find the right balance.
July 27th, 2007 at 6:51 pm
Sid,
I think as I told you before Muslims don’t have to mask anything, they already has the perfect book ever came back to the world, why would they lie, they have strong evidence which is Quran.
Any way take what ever path you want to take, I’m here when ever you have question, if I know the answer I will tell you, if I don’t I will try to do my best to get the answer.
July 27th, 2007 at 7:26 pm
@mohamed
in case you haven’t noticed, people are disputing your claim of a perfect book. all the evidence you presented so far has consisted of interpretations and circular logic. if quran was the perfect book surely you can find more convincing evidence.
July 27th, 2007 at 7:41 pm
Boris, what evidence, I claim it’s perfect and it’s free from mistakes, I don’t have to prove any thing, Millions of people like your self are dying to prove Quran is wrong, but no luck so far, and it will not happen that Quran is wrong.
Quran is from God who created me and you, and he is the perfect, who don’t do any mistake, so even though I’m not that expert in Quran, I know there are no mistakes in Quran.
It’s a challenge and when God challenge, there is no way human-being or even non human-being will win.
by the way how you have been? I didn’t hear from you long time, I thought you converted to Islam :)
I shouldn’t have said that, but any way.
July 28th, 2007 at 8:18 pm
no i have not converted to islam. i am way to intelligent to do something like that.
July 28th, 2007 at 8:21 pm
I really dobut you have any intelligence at all Boris, I don’t think any intlligent person should be hate like that.
Any way I was joking, like I told you before take it easy on your self buddy.
July 28th, 2007 at 8:24 pm
as far as intelligence, an IQ test confirmed me at 135 about 3 years ago. i speak 3 languages fluently. i think i’m doing ok in the intelligence department.
July 28th, 2007 at 8:25 pm
Sometimes intelligence is not just education, it alsi could be socialy intelligence which I think you IQ is Big Zero in that.
July 28th, 2007 at 8:34 pm
education… i dropped out of high school in grade 10 so i have no education at all… still i consider myself a very intelligent person. i am also very atheist and aggressive, those are the things you probably take offense at, but i am certainly intelligent.
July 28th, 2007 at 8:40 pm
I don’t question you intelligence in general, I question you intelligence mostly in the way you argue, I’m Muslim and aggressive sometimes, but you still have to know when you slow down and when you take control.
Extremist Muslims are aggressive too, so do you want to be like them?
Threatining people is not intelligent at all, talking with people and find middle ground and understand people is more intelligent than attacking them.
My dad wasn’t educated, but he was way smarter than me, he red about everything and he knows almost about everything.
October 3rd, 2007 at 2:20 am
hahaha……thst neighbour was witty…..kudos to him…
bt wait whats the concept of pig race?
March 27th, 2008 at 2:49 am
stop reading verses that are taken OUT OF CONTEXT.
I hope you had fun showing that you didn’t do your homework!
(8:54-55)
54.(Deeds) after the manner of the People of Pharaoh and those before them”: They treated as false the Signs of their Lord, so We destroyed them for their crimes, and We drowned the People of Pharaoh: for they were all oppressors and wrong- doers.
55.For the worst of beasts in the sight of Allah are those who reject Him: They will not believe.
the verses are self-explanatory. i will not think twice if I was to choose between Moses and the believers with him and the evil pharaoh.
some choose to think of themselves as “the worst of beasts” but this is their business.
________________________
(8:7-13)
is talking about a specific war that the muslims won. it’s not a law. it’s a story. the war is called “Badr” and it was after the muslims AND the messenger were forced out of Mecca…. their city, where they lived their whole lives.
7. Behold! Allah promised you one of the two victories that it should be yours: Ye wished that the one unarmed should be yours, but Allah willed to establish the Truth according to His words and to cut off the roots of the Unbelievers;-
8. That He might establish Truth and prove Falsehood false, distasteful though it be to those in guilt.
9. Remember ye implored the assistance of your Lord, and He answered you: “I will assist you with a thousand of the angels, ranks on ranks.”
10. Allah made it but a message of hope, and an assurance to your hearts: (in any case) there is no help except from Allah: and Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise.
11. Remember He covered you with sleepiness, to give you calm as from Himself, and He caused rain to descend on you from heaven, to clean you therewith, to remove from you the stain of Satan, to strengthen your hearts, and to plant your feet firmly therewith.
12. Remember thy Lord inspired the angels (with the message): “I am with you: give firmness to the Believers: I will instill terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them.”
13. This because they contended against Allah and His Messenger: if any contend against Allah and His Messenger, Allah is strict in punishment.
this was the story of what happened in that war.
when the God says in the Kur’an “the unbeliever” he is referring to the them ….as an adjective. muslims are not allowed to attack anyone because of their beliefs. “there’s no compulsion in religion” (2:256)
_________________________
(9:123)
is the same as in war against the attackers. the unbelievers who were near them at the time were their enemies who drove them out of their houses, tortured them and confiscated their belongings. they were Kuraish and their allies. it’s not a law.
_________________________
surah (48:29)
Muhammad is the apostle of Allah. and those who are with him are strong/hard/strict against Unbelievers, (but) compassionate amongst each other.
also there is:
- Surat (60:8,9)
8 -Allah forbids you not, with regard to those who fight you not for (your) Faith nor drive you out of your homes, from dealing kindly and justly with them: for Allah loveth those who are just.
9 -Allah only forbids you, with regard to those who fight you for (your) Faith, and drive you out of your homes, and support (others) in driving you out, from turning to them (for friendship and protection). It is such as turn to them (in these circumstances), that do wrong.
DON’T MIX PEACE AND WAR TIMES.
________________________
(5:33)
The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger, and strive with might and main for mischief through the land is: execution, or crucifixion, or the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides, or exile from the land: that is their disgrace in this world, and a heavy punishment is theirs in the Hereafter;
if you attack the muslims in a war that is unjustified, if you spread mischief why should we sit back and let you kill us? shouldn’t we fight back?
there are laws all over the world that punishes war criminals who spread mischief and murder the peaceful.
________________________
(2:190,191,192)
read all 3 verses:
-”And FIGHT in the way of Allah with THOSE WHO FIGHT WITH YOU, and DO NOT exceed the limits, surely Allah does not love those who exceed the limits”.
-”And kill them wherever you find them, and DRIVE them out from whence THEY DROVE you OUT, and persecution is severer than slaughter, and do not fight with them at the Sacred Mosque until they fight with you in it, but if they do fight you, then slay them; such is the recompense of the unbelievers” (human rights: first reason also)
-”But if they DESIST, then surely Allah IS Forgiving, Merciful”.
if you don’t want us to defend ourselves then you are a hater. you want for people what you wouldn’t accept for yourself.
if you don’t know that if you end the war that you started then i have to stop too, then you don’t know how peaceful Islam is.
you can’t give what you don’t have. if you give hatred then this is what fills your heart. you will only get what you give away! so you will be stuck in this circle of hate forever…. unless you really try.
ask, learn, share, live in peace
or
judge, lie, spread hate, live wars that you start.
you choose.
spread the love through the truth about Islam.
your sister,
heidi
March 27th, 2008 at 2:56 am
Islam is not a religion of terror.
don’t judge the religion by its sinful followers.
no one learns about religions through watching the news!! right?
Jihad means struggle. it’s anything that you will go through difficulties to do.
Jihad as in war is only allowed in defense. we are not allowed to start the war and if the other party calls it off and choose peace we have to stop.
this is a longer version of what i just said:
In Islam peace is the rule.
WAR OR “JIHAD” IS THE EXCEPTION IN THESE SITUATIONS:
The FIRST is:
-To defend one’s life, honor (used to mean women), money and possessions, freedom to follow one’s religion… in one word “self-defense” (Human rights in Islam) This applies for non Muslims as well as Muslims. Muslims were ordered to defend non-Muslims who live with them in the same country or under the same ruler even without those non-Muslims asking them to. Christians and Jews were called (dhemmi) this means they are in the Muslims’ protection of any
danger.
The SECOND is:
-To defend others when they are oppressed and can’t defend themselves. (Human rights in Islam)
-Muslims are not allowed to take their own lives (ولا تقتلوا أنÙسكم) (Suicidal bombers are disobeying this clear order which is considered a GREAT SIN not martyrdom)
- Muslims are not allowed to kill the innocent or the unarmed civilians. (Suicidal bombers are disobeying this clear order which is considered a GREAT SIN)
- Surat Al- Momtahanah sign no. 8 tells Muslims to be kind to those who don’t fight them not to those who attack them. the word used (an tabarroohom) is the same used for being kind to parents.
Sign no.8 :Allah forbids you not, with regard to those who fight you not for (your) Faith nor drive you out of your homes, from dealing kindly and justly with them: for Allah loveth those who are just.
Sign no. 9 Allah only forbids you, with regard to those who fight you for (your) Faith, and drive you out of your homes, and support (others) in driving you out, from turning to them (for friendship and protection). It is such as turn to them (in these circumstances), that do wrong.
SIGNS FROM QURAN TO TELL MUSLIMS WHAT THE RULES TO FIGHT ARE:
Surat Al Bakara (The cow) signs 190,191,192
-”And FIGHT in the way of Allah with THOSE WHO FIGHT WITH YOU, and DO NOT exceed the limits, surely Allah does not love those who exceed the limits”. (Human rights: the first reason)
-”And kill them wherever you find them, and DRIVE them out from whence THEY DROVE you OUT, and persecution is severer than slaughter, and do not fight with them at the Sacred Mosque until they fight with you in it, but if they do fight you, then slay them; such is the recompense of the unbelievers” (human rights: first reason also)
-”But if they DESIST, then surely Allah IS Forgiving, Merciful”.
(Human right’s to non-Muslims: stop fighting them if they stop fighting Muslims, for transgressing or exceeding the limits in Islam is forbidden and that was pointed out in the sign 190 so that Muslims would keep that in mind even if they are at war time)
As you may notice, If you read only the sign number 191 and leave out the sign number 190 you will go “and kill them wherever you find them…the rest of the sign” and it will sound so brutal, BUT if you read the sign 190 first you will know that the sign 191 is to kill those who attack Muslims not to attack the peaceful people. The sign number 192 is the clear evidence of how peaceful Islam is. If the other party calls the war off Muslims HAVE to stop fighting. You understand now that Islam is about being peaceful but not being weak? It’s just to fight those who attack you.
Surat Annesa (The Women) sign 75
“And what reason have you that you should not fight in the way of Allah and of the weak among the men and the women and the children, (of) those who say: Our Lord! cause us to go forth from this town, WHOSE PEOPLE ARE OPPRESSORS, and give us from Thee a guardian and give us from Thee a helper” (human right’s: defending the oppressed)
Surat Annesa , Sign 90
“Except those who reach a people between whom and you there is an alliance, or who come to you, their hearts shrinking from fighting you or fighting their own people; and if Allah had pleased, He would have given them power over you, so that they should have certainly fought you; therefore if they WITHDRAW from you and do NOT fight you and OFFER you PEACE, then Allah HAS NOT GIVEN YOU A WAY AGAINST THEM”.
(Human rights for the non Muslims: to stop fighting those who stop fighting Muslims)
Surat Al Anfal (the spoils of war) 60, 61
“And prepare against them what force you can and horses tied at the frontier, to frighten thereby the enemy of Allah and your enemy and others besides them, whom you do not know (but) Allah knows them; and whatever thing you will spend in Allah’s way, it will be paid back to you fully and you shall not be dealt with unjustly”.
“And if they INCLINE to PEACE, then INCLINE to it and trust in Allah; surely He is the Hearing, the Knowing”.
All the wars (Jihad) of the messenger Mohammad and the Muslims back then were to defend themselves and obtain their human rights.
Surat Attawbah (The Repentance) signs 13,14
“What! Will you not fight a people who BROKE their OATHS and AIMED at the EXPULSION of the Apostle, and they ATTACKED you FIRST; do you fear them? But Allah is most deserving that you should fear Him, if you are believers”.(Human rights: both reasons)
“Fight them, Allah will punish them by your hands and bring them to disgrace, and assist you against them and heal the hearts of a believing people”.
If you read the sign 14 only Muslims would sound brutal, unlike if you read the 2 signs together so you would know the reason why they were ordered to “Fight them” and it’s not because they were non-Muslims.
The reason Muslims fought was to obtain their rights NOT to force others to be Muslims.
Surat Al Bakara (The Cow) sign 256
“There is NO compulsion in religion”
Also the messenger never forced any of the prisoners of war to convert to Islam.
WHEN calling people non believers, or infidels or anything else in Koran it was in reference to them as “those people” (an adjective), but not the reason why Muslims were ordered to fight them.
Muslims are not prohibited from being kind to those who didn’t fight Muslims because of their religion, and who didn’t force them out of their homes. Those, Muslims should be kind to them no matter what faith they embrace.
Surat Al haj (The Pilgrimage) signs 39, 40
“PERMISSION (to fight) is given to those upon whom WAR is MADE because they are OPPRESSED, and most surely Allah is well able to assist them;
Those who have been EXPELLED FROM THEIR HOMES WITHOUT a JUST CAUSE EXCEPT that they say: Our Lord is Allah. And HAD THERE NOT been Allah’s REPELLING some PEOPLE BY OTHERS, certainly there would have been pulled down CLOISTERS and CHURCHES and SYNAGOGUES and MOSQUES IN WHICH ALLAH’S NAME IS MUCH REMEMBERED; and surely Allah will help him who helps His cause; most surely Allah is Strong, Mighty” (Human rights: both the first and second reasons for Muslims and non-Muslims)
NOTICE that god mentioned Christians’, Jews’ and others’ places of worship not just mosques, proves that Islam is about protecting those places. God is being worshiped, remembered and mentioned in those places. They are sacred places in Koran.
There is not even one “Ayah” with an order from God to kill the Christians or the Jews because they ARE infidels!
also the messenger said that whoever kills a Christian or a Jew then he will be against him in the Judgment day.
Muslims were ordered in the messenger Mohammad’s speeches the following DURING WAR TIME (let alone peace time):
-not to betray others
-not to deform or disfigure a dead person (RESPECT EVEN THE DEAD)
-not to kill a child
-not to kill the elderly
-not to kill women (coz a woman was found dead in one of the wars)
-not to cut or burn plants and crops
-not to contaminate water and wells
-not to kill animals, unless to eat (also Muslims are not allowed to kill animals for sports or fun in peace time)
-And to leave the worshipers of god (in reference to monks) unharmed where they worship god.
Surat Al Maedah (The Table) sign 2
“….and let not HATRED of a people because they HINDERED you from the Sacred Masjid– INCITE you to EXCEED the limits, and HELP one another IN goodness and piety, and DO NOT help one another IN sin and aggression; and be careful of (your duty to) Allah; surely Allah is severe in requiting (evil)”.
(Muslims were ordered in Koran not to fight to get even and have their revenge but to get their rights back with no transgression).
-In Koran Muslims were told that the righteous give from the food they LOVE to the POOR, ORPHANS and the PRISONERS of WAR without asking anything in return.
Surat Al Insan (The Man) signs 5-22 most important 8-10
8. And they give food they love to the poor and the orphan and the captive:
9. We only feed you for Allah’s sake; we desire from you neither reward nor thanks:
(Not just any food, the food they love, Muslims are ordered to treat prisoners of wars justly and as human beings, and to emphasize the meaning of being nice to them for they are not with their people and they must be scared… they were mentioned in the sign alongside the poor and orphans so Muslims would be just and kind to them as if they were poor or orphans)
that’s why Islam is a religion of peace.
Sadly, there are people who take the signs OUT of CONTEXT.
March 27th, 2008 at 3:44 am
TO proofNOTtruth
you will find churches in all countries with Christian natives. you will also find chruches in countries with NO Christian population… those chruches are built for visitors.
there are Churches in Emirates, Bahrain, Qatar, Kuwait, egypt, jordan, lebanon, iraq,…. all the countries except for Saudi Arabia.
Saudi Arabia is a 100% muslim country. like the Vatican is. Saudi Arabia to Muslim is like Vatican is to many Christians. there are no mosques in Vatican…. why do you want churches in Saudi?
it’s really going to be hilarious to build a mosque in the Vatican and a church in Saudi arabia just for visitors!!!
Christians pay the taxes and so do the muslims. where do you get all the incomplete info?!! do you not pay taxes in your country?
TO CHRISTIANS it’s called Jizyah and it’s payed for every adult healthy male who can afford to pay it. Jizyah is not paid for Christians if they are old , boys, women, girls, and people with disabilities and monks. Christians also pay tax on the profit of crops.
TO MUSLIMS it’s called Zakat and it has many branches: tax on profit, tax on crops, tax on farm animals, tax on gold and silver, tax on sea trade, and the money every year in Ramadan called “zakatul fetr”! this is payed for EVERY MEMBER OF THE FAMILY. so who’s the winner here?
they also had slices or ranks so that who earns more will pay more. someone who earns 100k a year will pay more than that who earns 10k in their own currency as an example.
they had a very good system. they were like one big family. every one who can in the country helps everyone who can’t.
murder is a GREAT SIN in Islam. Islam doesn’t allow a non-muslim to be killed unless he spreads mischief or commit treason against the country. this happens to the muslims as well.
there is a penalty for killing non-muslim BY MISTAKE! why do you think there’s no penalty if on purpose?!!
(4:92,93)
-Never should a believer kill a believer, except by mistake. And whoever kills a believer by mistake, it is ordained that he should free a believing slave, and pay compensation to the deceased’s family, unless they remit it freely. If the deceased belonged to a people at war with you, and he was a believer, the freeing of a believing slave (is enough). If he belonged to a people with whom ye have treaty of mutual alliance, compensation should be paid to his family, and a believing slave be freed. For those who find this beyond their means, (is prescribed) a fast for two months running: by way of repentance to Allah. for Allah hath All knowledge and All wisdom.
-If a man kills a believer intentionally, his recompense is Hell, to abide therein (for ever): And the wrath and the curse of Allah are upon him, and a dreadful penalty is prepared for him.
the verses said “the believer” not the “muslim” how are we supposed to know who is a believer and who is not? it’s God’s call. he is the judge. it would have been very different if it said the “muslim” instead of the “believer”.
you have to learn to follow the laws or change them before you break ‘em. i can’t believe that you are ok that gay people live with AIDS? is this more merciful in your opinion? i’d rather get killed than live with such a terrible thing. may God ease their pain and trouble.
THERE IS NOT ONE VERSE IN THE MANY VERSES IN KUR’AN THAT TALKED ABOUT APOSTASY THAT SAYS TO KILL THE CONVERTS. kur’an is very specific in all the punishments to all punishable sins.
check this out:
http://www.islamicperspectives.com/Apostasy1.htm
there’s also no punishment in Kur’an for criticizing or mocking Islam. and i told you Kur’an was very specific and detailed about all the punishable sins.
i don’t want to think of you as someone who has a heart full of hate. those who spread hate have nothing but hate in their hearts and will gain nothing but hate.
ask, learn, share, accept, live in peace
or
judge, lie, spread hate, live wars that you start.
you choose.
spread the word!
contact me if you want.
heidi1981_work@yahoo.com
July 21st, 2008 at 9:44 pm
Wow…
thanx heidi for the post.
I guess it only takes a Christian sister to explain everything about Islam and Koran. Honestly speaking, our Islamic Scholars are not ‘bold’ enough to explain or perhaps, no one want to hear this explaination from them anyway.
I think the problem with Moslem is we have a REALLY BAD PR. we need a good PR people to explain.
Btw,im a Malaysian Malay Moslem and we HAVE CHURCHES and TEMPLES here in Malaysia.In fact ,we have the Statue of Sleeping Buddha in state of Kelantan (Islamic Controlled State) and it is the biggest in South East Asia.
The only problem is, we also have politicians who play religious and race sentiments cards here.And “thanx” to Mr Bush’s campaign of 9/11, the numbers of Islam Haters and also Islam Defenders are increasing in Malaysia. Sadly,among our own countrymen.
before i go, here’s a simple note to our Christian brothers and sisters.
” Dear My Christian brothers and sisters,
We also respect Jesus and Mariam.We also respect the Pope.
Did you ever heard any Moslem in the world ,mocking the Jesus? So, what’s with the insults to Muhammad?
Love,
Moslem
( No heart feeling about the insults,anyway.We understand. It’s norm for us as ’siblings’ to fight and quarrel,right?)
Assalamualaikum
(May Peace Be Upon You)
July 22nd, 2008 at 1:22 am
“I think the problem with Moslem is we have a REALLY BAD PR. we need a good PR people to explain.”
No, nothing to do with PR (which is just a form of lying) just that many muslims are bloodthirsty, racist, sexist idiots.
You and Heidi can go on all you want about religion of peace, context, not allowed to kill etc etc etc, but the simple fact is that your religion encourages this kind of behaviour of its followers, because other religions dont have anywhere near the inherent level of violent followers as islam does.
Islam = violence in some followers x a billion followers = a very big problem and thus a shitty, shitty religion.
August 8th, 2008 at 1:36 pm
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