It’s been a while since we’ve done a little questions and answers session with a reader so let’s have at it.
I’ve been talking with Bridgett recently, one of our regular readers who you may recognize as deletedsoul. She was kind enough to share her evangelical childhood experiences with me. It’s very well written and insightful. I promptly asked if she’d be interested in sharing it with the world. She agreed with hopes that it might shed some light on the evangelical lifestyle and it’s effects on her.
Here’s a sample taken from her blog entry. If you find it interesting, please read the entire post at her site. Once you’re done please ask Bridgett any questions you’d like in the comments section here. I’ll pass them off to her this weekend and provide you with the answers once I receive them.
There is only one rule. Keep the questions and comments on track and pertinent to the topic (no flaming evangelicals). Bridgett was kind enough to let us in to her life, so please show her the respect that she deserves.
Me at 17–deletedsoul:
At 17 I was immersed in “church life”, fighting with my parents and many issues at home, yet still trying to live up to the expectations that they held for me. I wasn’t expected to get a college degree, I wasn’t even fully expected to find a husband and start a family. No…the expectation…the requirement…was that I would remain a steadfast, semi-fanatical, non-questioning, devout, spiritual “Christian”. Granted, I had my moments of rebellion growing up, but I never slipped out of the house late at night, I never smoked, never drank or did any drugs. The closest thing to sex was stolen kisses behind the church or a naughty late night chat session (once I finally had internet access). No, I was a good kid, as far as appearances go. I had to appear meek and devout, innocent and un-tainted.
Related posts:
- deletedsoul Resurrected After 21 Days
- Muhammed Has Spoken!
- Just Ask! Mohamed
- Just Ask! gasmonso
- Physically Here, Mentally Absent
March 14th, 2007 at 11:58 am
Wow, That’s pretty heavy.
March 14th, 2007 at 12:25 pm
[...] Here's a link to the post, go visit and leave a comment there! [...]
March 14th, 2007 at 12:35 pm
Originally I’d ask a bunch of questions regarding your faith, but instead I was going to ask. What’s your opinion of young evangelicals today? There’s a growing trend young adults becoming active recruiters. The use of peer pressure and training has lead to the so called “para-ministers” mostly working their way into social circles in schools and such. Id go so far as to say a lot of these people also are quite skilled at dealing with arguments against creationism? I feel it’s just sophisticated brainwashing but I’m sure you have a interesting angle on it.
March 14th, 2007 at 12:40 pm
Hello deletedsoul,
Thank you for the opportunity to ask questions. Your blog entry was well written and interesting. Congratulations on becoming a fellow ex-evangelical. It takes a great deal of personal courage and integrity to reject the beliefs of our parents.
I have a few questions. Please, don’t feel that you have to respond to them all.
1. How would you categorize and/or describe your current view of religion? Non-evangelical Christian? Agnostic? Atheist? Pastafarian? Other?
2. Is your family aware of your choice to reject their beliefs? If so, how did they react when they found out and how do they treat you now?
3. Do you go through a period of deep resentment for being lied to? I know I did, and still do from time to time.
March 14th, 2007 at 12:51 pm
1) Whst does it mean for someone to be an “evangelical” in your mind?
2) If you feel, as Sid said, that you’ve been lied to, what was the lie?
3) You say that you’d never be part of a church again. Do you mean any church, just a Christian church, or that particular sub set of Christianity?
March 14th, 2007 at 1:29 pm
When you were still, how do I say this, “under the influence” of faith, what was your opinion of those who didn’t believe? I oftentimes wonder just what most evangelicals actually think. I find it tough to belive that most of them are as radical as the loudest few are, and so I wonder. Also, how did others you knew react to nonbelievers/those of other faith/those “not faithful enough”? Did it seem like some of them really weren’t that fanatic about it? Did it seem like for many it was just being pushed along and a fear of alienation, or something else? Or is it really that involving? From what I’ve seen, much of it these days is about creating a virtually intoxicating experience and then trying to affect people’s opinions under this kind of state.
March 14th, 2007 at 1:40 pm
Hi deletedsoul -
like you, I used to be an evangelical too, but have become (at the moment, seemingly) irreversibly disgusted with Christianity. I’m now an agnostic/athiest. I frequent this blog often for like-minded discussion and because I think it so well exposes serious flaws in religion.
As a former Christian, I think you can well understand the difficulties in reconciling the idea[delusion] that a loved-one is “doomed to hell” — it is because of this, I’ve continued to lead my aunts/uncles and cousins to think that I’m still Christian for over a decade. I still have difficulty with this because it’s intellectually dishonest for me, but as one who used to be part of the “dark side”, and you know as well as I do that this allows me to avoid a lot of unnecessary pain and hassle on both sides.
I was wondering what you think of this policy. What have you done in your life, and your move out of your church to deal with family and friends who care and love you?
(I don’t mind anyone else answering my question as well, since I’m always curious about other peoples’ points of view…)
March 14th, 2007 at 4:51 pm
deletedsoul - First, thanks for posting the story of your journey. Mine follows a similar vein although I didn’t finally throw off the shackles of religion until around my 27th birthday. I am almost 29 now. I remember the pain removing that thorn caused me and I wasn’t lucky enough to have someone to guide me down that path.
My wife has lost faith in organized religion and I can see her struggling with her faith. I am not pushing atheism on her as that would be no better than her parents doing it. My question is, what did your husband do for you to support you on your journey from Evangelical to where you are now? I want to ease her through the loss of faith, if that is what she chooses, as well as I can.
March 14th, 2007 at 11:12 pm
Hey Deletedsoul, always good to see the blind gain the ability to see :)
My story is somewhat similar to yours, with the immersion in the Southern Baptist belief system. Having it pushed down your throat constantly. Forced to go to church. I dispise every parent that does that to a kid because I know what it is like. They DON’T BELIEVE. They just tell themselves they do to satisfy you. Eventually they either rebel against it completely, like me, or they become brainwashed into believing they do. It is called indoctrination, and it is wrong.
When did I finally realize 100% that there was no god? It was when I was in boot camp. It was tough, and I prayed nightly for god to get me through it. I am not sure what it was but eventually I came to the realization that it was moronic for me to be praying to god to get me through that experience. That the only entity that could get me through it was me. And I did. Of course, some people will say that god answered my prayers. If he/she/it did, the prayer that they answered was the one that got them out of my life forever. Once on the outside, I can see the ridiculous nature of organized religion. And I give thanks to reason every day for my freedom from that horrorfest.
March 15th, 2007 at 2:31 am
Do you remember if there was a specific argument or moment that made you change your mind about religion?
March 15th, 2007 at 11:04 am
Sounds quite familiar, a lot like what I went through at almost the same age(though I used to be a Moslem)
Most questions I was going to ask were already put forth by the other people here, this is all that remains:
When/How/Why(if at all) did you decide to tell your family/friends that you had abandoned the Church? (empathies on the why)
March 15th, 2007 at 12:09 pm
I brought up in secular humanism; I wish my experience was like this one. No, I satified my flesh in every way imaginable with the encouragement of those in authority. To boot, I was miserable and knew it. I praise God that Jesus entered my life at 30 yrs. old (This freak has a Master’s Degree and makes just under six figures). There are many like myself that see your religion as divisive.
Scripture is Good News - my four kids love church, life, Jesus, Sports, Sunday School, reading the Bible, their parents, friends (saved and unsaved), etc. I see many of their peers sad, unsure, lonely, etc… not that they will never face disappointment and trials, but your religion of secular humanism has left a historial and scientific trail of darkness and emptiness that can not be measured.
HEY, CALL ME A FREAK (AND THE BILLIONS OF OTHERS THAT HAVE OR WILL EXPERIENCE A LIFE WITHOUT EVIL, DARKNESS, AND NO HOPE!!!
March 15th, 2007 at 12:12 pm
Also, Jesus loves each one in this blog.
I pray he uses your curosity and openness to the spiritual to save souls through Faith (not works, which it appears many here experienced - Note that is not the Christianity outline in God’s Words).
March 15th, 2007 at 3:39 pm
I work with youth and see a disconnect between what there parents supposedly believe and what they do. It is human to be weak. to look for a way out, to do what is easier for us. So parents do it, they know their kids will.
Ive noticed people telling their kids the right thing while not adhering to it themselves. It doesnt mean its bad advice or belief its just that they dont want to see the ones they love make the same mistakes. Just like a good parent wants to protect their children you do what you think is best. Sometimes it doesnt work. Sometimes we error while trying to do what we think is best. We are all going to be guilty of that from time to time.
This is not at all in response to what the Deleted soul’s experience. I dont want to make light of pain. Suffering is seasonal it seems. I have had tons even since walking with Jesus (through the spirit). I know that sounds weird but that is the thing I have come to know more than anything in life. he doesnt deliver us out of life, He just is with me through it. I know That I never have to walk through it alone. sometimes it feels like no one else knows what it feels like to be me. But then he reminds me that he suffered all things too. Not to “one up me” but to say hey your identifying with me. and I love him.
Have you ever weeped because of the overwhelming happiness that you have inside? Everytime I feel his presence I break.
March 15th, 2007 at 3:41 pm
http://www.rochesterfirst.org/revaudio3.html
March 15th, 2007 at 7:09 pm
wow, that’s almost exactly the way I feel about it. Like religion is some kind of asuring yourself that everything is going to be allright, that someone is going to fix everything for you, while you really have to do it yourself (or ask a real person for help)
Now for an actual question:
Why do you think you shouldn’t tell religious people they are/might be wrong?
Personally, I don’t want to put anyone through the disillusionment I went through, when I put two and two together and figured out God was as real as santaclause, but I think that it is for the best. Some people really are beyond help, but I’m much happier now that i’m not wasting my time in church and prayer, but actually fix my problems.
March 17th, 2007 at 4:20 pm
You know, Worldview’s response made me chuckle a little. It seems whenever a believer starts talking about how they “found christ” they were always a miserable soul until they were enlightened. They also always talk about how they survey the landscape and see all of us heathens miserable, etc and we don’t even know it. Its like they all read from a script.
I guess when you believe in nonsense, thats just about all you can talk about. For the record, once I dropped god like a hot potato, I became a MUCH happier person. I would be even more happy if your flock would quit coming to my door every saturday and stop trying to pass laws based on your little book.
Oh and Ben? When you break down and weep because of the “overwelming happiness” you have inside, it sounds like a chemical imbalance and you might want to have that looked at.
Since two seem so sure of yourselves, I have a question for you. It is a time honored question mixed with the subject of this thread (indoctrination of youth by adults ). Would you say that your belief is mutually exclusive with, say, the beliefs of Islamic folk. For instance, someone born and raised and dies islamic can not go to heaven since they didn’t accept your jesus. And, conversely, according to them (someone will have to correct me if I am wrong, I know almost nothing about this form of the sickness) you will be going to whatever they have for hell since you never accepted muhammed or whatever. With that stated, wouldn’t them teaching their kids that islam is the one true way be damning their kids to hell? Those kids would never have a chance to make a fair choice since they are raised from the diaper to believe they are right. Assuming you are right (I giggled a little at that thought) then they are committing a huge injustice in teaching their kids their religion before they ever had a chance to make up their own mind. They were FORCED into a belief system. And vice versa.
My point is this: Survey the landscape of religions out there, how many of them are there? How many of them are, like yours, exclusive of all other religions? Do you HONESTLY believe you just happened to be born into a family or a country that knew the one true religion? How do you know this? Because someone told you? Because you “feel” it?
You have NO idea how funny your religion is. I really have a hard time coming to terms with the concept that a thinking, reasonably intelligent human being can believe that junk at all. Yet they do. It just floors me. And you have NO idea just how silly it all is either! haha
March 17th, 2007 at 7:06 pm
Hey Deleto soulo…got asbestos?
March 17th, 2007 at 7:10 pm
Funny how it is all a silly joke to you, but you can’t stop talking about it and even name yourself in relation to it…or should I say Him.
March 17th, 2007 at 7:26 pm
I am going to assume your comment was directed at me there Charles. I think it is a fair assumption.
I can’t stop talking about it? On a site that is dedicated to it? Do you know how moronic that comment is? What do you mean by “name myself in relation to it”? Are you referring to my name? If so, it was my mother’s idea - not mine. After 35 years, I am quite attached to it now.
I swear, I think you are the poster child for believers.
March 18th, 2007 at 1:30 pm
Michael, I don’t want to hijack this thread, but I’ll make two quick comments.
One) I don’t have any problem beliving that you’re legitimately happy. You can do whatever you please and fill every need you have. How could that not make you happy.
Two) Being a Christian doesn’t automagically make one happy and my brethren up there that seem to be claiming that it does are doing so for good, if misguided, reasons. I’m happy sometimes, sad others. Being a Christian isn’t about “feeling good”.
March 19th, 2007 at 9:58 am
Hi Scott,
I just needed to clear one thing up. Your point number one is incorrect. I can not do whatever I please and fill every need I have. This is a common believer fallacy. They seem to believe without god, one can not be moral, which I laughable. It is just as false as saying that with god one can not do evil. I certainly hope you don’t believe that.
Of course I can’t say I have never stolen. Always minor stuff as a child, as children will do. This was also during the time I thought I believed in god :) Since I became an adult the only thing I have stolen is downloaded some music. Yea, I am evil for that. I bet a lot of so called christians have done at least that, many more. I have never murdered, can all christians say that? Never mugged anyone. Don’t drink or do drugs. Not a racist, lots of so called christians can’t say that.
I’m not going to go on all day listing all possible sins, I am sure you get my point. JUST because you believe in god does not make you inherently more moral. In some cases I find it makes you LESS moral since, as stated earlier, it is fairly easy for one to justify all kinds of stuff if you are just doing it for god. Just ask the “witches” in Salem during the burnings.
March 19th, 2007 at 3:59 pm
I didn’t say it makes you less moral. It just means that you can set your own morality. Of course you could successfully argue that I can too by picking and choosing form different parts of the Bible. By “do whatever you please” I honeslty only meant that. I’ve known many atheists that I would consider moral people.
November 10th, 2007 at 5:04 pm
Bridget has thought-provoking recollections and reflections. What she describes is the wing of evangelicalism that believes in grace in theory, but not in practice. It promotes a performance-based religion that stifles true biblical freedom. I’ve had a similar experience, and I hope she or others who are interested can check it out:
Confessions of a Bible Thumper -
http://deepthoughtpub.blogspot.com/
My question to Bridget is do you still have some form of faith in Christ and what does that entail?
November 10th, 2007 at 7:13 pm
Micheal, I don’t think your question will be answered. Your best chance is to respond to het blog (link the article) because the question-and-answer forwarding was a one-time-only thing, and the odds that she’ll read your question are slim, to none.
note the date on the article. March 2007.
May 2nd, 2009 at 12:41 am
For all those Christians who feel that non-believers “just make up their own beliefs,” why did you choose to believe in fundamentalist forms of Christianity? Isn’t that picking and choosing? And is it truly a more difficult path than the rest of us? I think that it too is a personal choice. There is this perception that the more logic-bending the religion, the greater the faith and suffering on the part of Christians. The fact that I and others chose not to believe in Jesus, does not mean that we suffer less than you. Well, perhaps we have chosen to suffer less mentally.
Let me relate a little history in fortune & faith or lack of it:
I’ve been in several car accidents -11 out of 12 being caused by other people per the police reports, 1 mine. I’ve been told that my “bad luck” was due to my lack of faith. What? Christians don’t have car accidents? Yet, I survived each one without a scratch. Maybe God loves me more than you? Or, maybe I’m so evil I can’t be killed off. Which is it?
Some Christians, Calvinists in particular, will say that their prosperity is due to their profound faith, yet claim that true Christians get persecuted. They will claim that Christians have no voice in the public sector, yet, no major party will ever support a non-Christian, let alone an atheist Presidential candidate. An open atheist will never get elected in this country.
Where exactly is the persecution against Christians in this country? Where is the excess suffering that Christians have over non-Christians in this country?
Atheists suffer. They have car accidents, they get killed, they have disease, they get thrown in prison in certain Muslim countries just like Christians and Jews do. Atheists and agnostics have parents that they have to take care of in their waning years. They do so with as much care and pride as many Christians do. They also raise responsible children with great citizenship (my boldly atheist daughter being one of them). The one thing we don’t have that you have is your faith in Jesus as Savior. And for that, we agnostics and atheists are very, very thankful. It actually takes a lot of hope & faith to be an agnostic or an atheist. It also takes a lot more curiosity about the world than it does to be a Christian.
No, we don’t have your religion & we don’t want it. We suffer as Christians do, but without the mental agony of a belief system that defies reality. As someone who has not been a Christian for 30 years, I can not put in words how unafraid & full of hope I am for my life on earth and beyond. There is a whole world of freedom outside the shackles of “true belief.”
May 2nd, 2009 at 8:12 pm
Marie,
Thank you for that fantastic post. It is a breath of fresh air compared with the religious idiocy and nonsense that has appeared in many posts here lately by Christian zealots and apologists.
Thanks. You made my day.
Korgan
Religion is ridiculous.
May 2nd, 2009 at 10:38 pm
Marie - I echo what Korgan said about your post. Also it made me think about one of the things Christians so often bring up which is the notion that without religion my life has no meaning. Actually I think it takes far more courage to realize that we give our own meaning to our lives than to have that “meaning” prepackaged and force fed to us. My life is meaningful because I make it so, and because this life is almost certainly all there is, the task of creating our own meaningful lives is perhaps the most important thing one can do, must do.
May 3rd, 2009 at 3:33 pm
What’s Marie talking about? The bible addresses principles for all situations. She is actually saying what the bible says when she said this:- “The fact that I and others chose not to believe in Jesus, does not mean that we suffer less than you”
Mat 5:45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.
And it’s “clear” that Marie never took a close look at the book of Job in the OT. WE are in a cosmic conflict, Satan hates God and God loves us!!!! In order to spite God, Satan attacks us and if one seems to be on Satan’s side he may leave them for a while just till they serve their purpose and then he still turns around and kills or maims them just for the heck of it! God has such extreme pathos and He did come to earth and suffered so He knows “firsthand” what we go through!
Obviously Marie did not have a love relationship with Jesus. He unlike “All” of us, never ever sinned and look what happened to Him and yup, the “religionists” were the ones that instigated it and the “pagans” finished it!
To “reiterate”, this is the point of the whole cosmic conflict:-
Eph 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high [places].
And i hate to tell you this Marie but history has a way of repeating itself, for there is nothing new under the sun. What happened in the past is going to happen “AGAIN”.
Atheists may “seem” to have sorta “moral” lives (Hmmm, i wonder what or by whose “standard” they judge their “morality”?
Anyway,outwardly some atheists may seem to have “a form of Godliness”
2Ti 3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
But you all are making the same mistake as the Jewish nation of old; they were cut off or separated from God because of “unbelief”
Hbr 11:6 But without faith [it is] impossible to please [him]: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and [that] he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
Outwardly it “seemed” that they were good and moral but they did not have love, and faith worketh by love.
Gal 5:6 For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.
The bible records those people as being soooo caught up in their “traditions” that they did not realizethat they were still breaking God’s commandments.
Mat 15:9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching [for] doctrines the commandments of men.
Mar 7:7
Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching [for] doctrines the commandments of men.
Jesus came to “magnify” the 10 commandments and to show us how to live because every body else kept falling short and could not live “righteously”, not even when they thought they were!
Also Marie when “probation” closes, the “holy spirit” would no longer be pleading with people and those who refuse God’s love would actually be demon possessed;
they won’t be able to control their minds! God would have given them their desire i.e. to be apart from Him for good and that would be a shame when He loves us so.
Marie, i’m also talking to my self here, i gotta keep looking to Jesus because it would be a shame for me to be like those 5 foolish virgins in the parable in Matthew 25
“No, we don’t have your religion & we don’t want it.”
Every body has “free will”. It’s just that there will be consequences.
I’ll end this post by encouraging you to focus on love and to base your belief on a loving God who created you and wants to save you and please don’t judge God or the bible on the faults of professed followers.
http://www.amazingfacts.org/Radio/JoeCrewsRadioSermons/tabid/90/ctl/PlayMedia/mid/423/MDID/1740/PID/713/SID/4/SQT/1000/7/Faith-that-Works/Default.aspx
May 3rd, 2009 at 4:06 pm
Absolutely hilarious, the parable of ten virgins, did you ever read it? There is few nice parts in regards of the christianity that you most likely glazed over.
Where does the parable show the good qualities of christianity? When they were not willing to share or when they did not bothered to wait? The real kicker in my opinion is the end,
The old reliable, ‘or else’-clause. Jesus was as much of a schlemiel in NT as in OT.
May 3rd, 2009 at 6:03 pm
Jesus a “schlemiel”? Man at the end of the world and at the end of the milleniun “every knee shall bow and every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord.”
Rom 14:11 For it is written, [As] I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.
Here is a movie that basically says How this thing is gonna go down! BTW the guy hosting it “USED” to be an atheist. You should listen to a couple of former atheists; open up your mind a lil’!:-
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-236603451790404943&hl=en
——————————————————————————–
Now for the parable!
Parable definition:-
1. a short allegorical story designed to illustrate or teach some truth, religious principle, or moral lesson.
2. a statement or comment that conveys a meaning indirectly by the use of comparison, analogy, or the like.
Listen to this or read it, it explains the parable:-
http://www.amazingfacts.org/Radio/JoeCrewsRadioSermons/tabid/90/ctl/PlayMedia/mid/423/MDID/1943/PID/916/SID/4/SQT/1000/7/Probation/Default.aspx
The bridegroom= Jesus the creator and redeemer
The bride = the church
bridesmaids= church members
The lamp= the word of God a.k.a the Basic Instructions Before Leaving Earth (BIBLE) :)
The oil= the holy spirit (yuh can’t share the holy spirit man; yuh can’t go to heaven riding on the coat tails of someone else!) That alone shows that “purgatory” is a myth; dead people can’t do anything and death means probation had closed for that individual, so no amount of prayers for the dead could help ‘em. Oh and the dead folk are in the graves “asleep” and the righteous ones did not go to heaven yet and hell does not exist yet and hell will be “temporary”.
Why would Jesus let in people into heaven who are not “genuinely” converted? That will only result in all the “evil” (that you atheists keep harping on) to occur “again” so nope, evil will be eradicated! Heaven is going to be a place of L-O-V-E!
PS You and Korgan are funny but shhhh, don’t tell him i said so OK?:)
May 3rd, 2009 at 8:55 pm
I find it entertaining to see what Christians choose to claim is literal and what is allegorical. Just, whatever is convenient for them.
As an afterthought:
Ally, you might have a wealth of knowledge about what the Bible says, but you lack the wisdom to understand why it says what it does.
May 9th, 2009 at 8:37 pm
http://www.compellinglove.org
May 9th, 2009 at 10:30 pm
Relating to post 26, I just want to get something off my chest. Christians suffer for Christ, as do athiests suffer for their beliefs. Jew seem to have suffered the most(Hitl-’s evil Holocaust), but they still did not suffer as much as Christ. He bore everyone’s sins, every one.
(This part is more for the Believers on here, but you can read if you want) I do not believe a true Christian should go around saying, “OOOhhhh, everyone hates me….I suffer so much….OOOhhhh…..the devils been on my back all week….poor me…” Get a grip, Brother. Someone calling you a Stupid a-s Christian is not persecution, no matter how rude it may seem. Being tortured, and then slowly killed is persecution. Being beaten for you beliefs is persecution. Having your family taken from you is persecution. We should not sorrow over our sufferings, we should rejoice! Be exceedingly glad for persecutions! Christ suffered to save us, so why not suffer to glorify Him?Job sure did. He praised the Lord for his suffering. Meh, the things we endure are nothing compared to what he suffered anyway. Brothers, not to be rude, but most athiests have suffered far greater than some of you ever will.
P.S. Thank you for the sharing of your story, deletedsoul, as it was interesting.
May 9th, 2009 at 11:26 pm
Regarding post 34, the whole world has suffered long enough for the utter stupidity of the Christian religion and the horrific violence, sexism, and racism that is part and parcel of Christianity. It is high time for the world to move on, and to leave behind the religious superstitions of its primitive past.
Religion is a disease of the mind. Inoculate against it with reason.
May 10th, 2009 at 9:25 am
http://www.reasonproject.org/
Religion is ridiculous.
May 10th, 2009 at 9:32 pm
Meh, Christianity has been around, and it will not “die” until God takes us out in the rapture. No, your statement is incorrect. The world has had nothing but *gain* from true, Bible believing Christians. The “Christian” horrors you speak of are not relating to Believers, but to the perverted followers of catholisim. Catholics are not true Believers. Baptists, Waldinians, Albadingins(incorrect spelling), plus many more, were persecuted by catholics. Normally, unbelievers associate “Christian” with catholics, and that is why I mainly say “Believer”. True Christians have not persecuted anyone, and please do not pull out the “sodomites are persecuted by them” garbage, because true Christians would not persecute them, we would only make our opinions, and God’s opinions of them, known. We love the sodomite, but hate the sodomy.
Let me say this about the main topic-
The woman was not saved in the first place. When you become saved, you are placed in God’s hand, and no man can pluck you out, not even yourself. You will probably say, “well what if am a Christian and I decide I do not want to be one?” You will not have that feeling if you are a true Believer. Trusting in Christ is the greatest thing you can ever do. If you want to renounce your Christianity, go ahead. You do not have it anyway. True Believers will stay steadfast in their beliefs. Nero was good at persecuting Christians because he realized they would not renounce their faith in Christ. He would light them on fire ,like candles, in his garden if they would not renounce.
F:B(For Believer)If you are saved, sometimes you may doubt your salvation, saying “I don’t think I got saved right,” or I don’t feel saved.” All you must do to do away with your doubt is say to your self what you are trusting in. If you truly, with all your heart, trusted that Jesus,the Son of God, Died on the cross for your sins, was buried and rose again on the third and appointed day, then you are saved “without a shout of a doubt.”
May 11th, 2009 at 8:50 am
Your spew about “The woman was not saved in the first place…” is the No True Scotsman fallacy in spades. Go read up on it on the google.
Your delusion about the rapture is alarming, and is yet one more reason why Christianity is so harmful. Your fiction that your sky crane is going to whisk you away is absurd, and is merely a dodge from the problems that you and the world face.
Religion is for the stupid, the ignorant, and the gullible, and for those who would profit from them.
May 11th, 2009 at 4:21 pm
You are ignorant concerning the Bible. You do not understand that a true Christian would not turn away from God. If they turn away from God and feel no conviction, remorse, or chastisement from God for what they have done, then “but if ye be without chastisement wherefore all are partakers, then ye are bastards and not sons” comes into place.
You know what? If my salvation is incorrect and in vain(not), then do not tell me, as it is enhancing my life. I have the greatest joy i have ever known. If you take that away, then I will feel like you athiests, empty,with nothing to guide me in the present, no hope of the future, and no idea of the past.
People try to prove the Bible wrong because it is the only thing that can prove everything else wrong. It has a verse on every subject you all can come up with, and can disprove them all. Thank *God* for the Word of *God*!
May 11th, 2009 at 6:51 pm
“If you take that away, then I will feel like you athiests, empty,with nothing to guide me in the present, no hope of the future, and no idea of the past.”
And once again D makes ridiculous judgments based on no evidence at all. See where blind faith can lead you - into error. I do not feel empty, without guidance, or hopeless and I obviously have a better understanding of the past than D, as does Korgan and Jag etc. After all, D. makes up much of what she asserts about the past (see the teeth discussion). So once again the arrogance of a believer leads to false conclusions.
May 11th, 2009 at 6:53 pm
“People try to prove the Bible wrong”
and have succeeded.
Just thought I would finish the sentence for you D
May 11th, 2009 at 8:36 pm
Let me make adjustments to your statement. They have tried to prove the Bible wrong, and have failed. They will continue to try and disprove and will continue to fail. They have tried for thousands of years to dissprove the Bible, but yet here it stands, strong as ever. These athiests will fail just as all the others. There is nothing any different than these. They are still fools as the Bible says, they still worship the creations instead of the Creator as the Bible says, and they still are unsaved as the Bible says. You cannot prove there is not a God. Even if you reject the Bible, there are still so many wonderful things that show there is a God.
Did you know that a great scientist said that evolution has as much chance of happening as if you put some monkeys on some keyboards and they managed to type Shakespears play out without any errors multiple times?
The idea of evolution is absurd. Some of you should read my post that attacks evolution. I will state it again. If you evolved from some animal, why not have relations with the relatives of that animal? Some of you thought,”well excuse me, I am so offended, that is just not a scientific approach, and so that is wrong.” That statement is very correct. You all just won’t admit it. You all make fun of me when I talk about sodomites. You think you are so “educated”. But an educated person knows when he is wrong, and admits it. Korgan, the prime example, sometimes can find nothing else to use against me and so he says for “D. to f-off and go away.” He has said this at least two times. This seems a victory for God in my eyes. You all can try and try to prove the Bible wrong, but you never will. You may have taken it out of schools, court houses, and other major places, but it will never be taken from the home. This girl is an excellent example of a person who just went through the motions, and never had the love of God in her. May God steer her back to the paths of righteousness, before it is too late.
May 11th, 2009 at 8:42 pm
Accurately said, rucker.
I have to add, D manages to include both the No True Scotsman fallacy (repeatedly) and Pascal’s Wager in post 39 and previously, along with other basic fallacies. It’s not really surprising.
D, do the world and yourself a favor: do at least a little reading on basic logical fallacies, else you will continue to be way out of your depth posting here. Better reasoning skills will cure your religious delusion, too.
Religion is ridiculous.
May 11th, 2009 at 9:13 pm
“If you evolved from some animal, why not have relations with the relatives of that animal?”
Well, it’s not that this is unscientific. It’s that’s it’s pointless. It’s intended to sound profound when actually it’s a red herring. We’re supposed to smack our foreheads in disbelief that we missed that all these years. So simple really. If other primates and humans share a common ancestor, then OF COURSE, we would all be wantin’ to ball apes. It just stands to reason.
As for proving the bible wrong, it’s been done here over and over not to mention at the skeptics bible site. You just keep ignoring the proof. People do continue to believe in it, of course, but anyone can see that belief proves nothing about the thing believed.
So when are you going to explain why you keep adding things to christianity? Seems blasphemous to me.
May 11th, 2009 at 9:18 pm
Thanks, Korgan. And also for your comment about the rapture. One of the things that worried me about Reagan was that he was a rapture believer. As was Bush 2. Really, really don’t want such types in charge of nuclear weapons as they have no respect for life.
In fact the lack of respect for life (the only life we know) is common to religion from the relatively benign Buddhist perspective to the “we love death” islamic killers of Hamas.
May 11th, 2009 at 9:59 pm
Wrongly said rucker, incorrectly said Korgan.
Rucker, you become saved by believing Jesus Christ is your savior, and He died to save you from Hell. Nothing more, nothing less. I have not changed what the Bible says about Christianity. Korgan, with his falsly led mind, takes verses out of context to prove his points. As a matter of fact, I pity his foolishness, as he is an unbeliever and knows no better.
You keep referring to the skeptics Bible contradictions, but have you ever visited a Bible is perfect site to see your points disproved?
Jagganath presented a “contradiction” to me earlier. The verse on God repenting. He did not want to accept my explanation, and I am rooted and grounded in the word of God and would not conform. It is unthinkable for me to change my beliefs, as I have found so many truths in the Bible. We both had no more to say about the issue, so it was dropped.
About the rapture, you all should be glad when it happens. No more Christians. Thats most of your so called “problems” gone. I can’t wait till my sky crane comes to wisk me away. Away from this atheistic foolishness, and away from these islamic terrorists. Thank God if it would happen right now.
I have realized that if we use scripture, you call us scripture spewers. If we use historical or scientific knowledge, you call us ignorant. So is there a way for us to fight back? Is it all in vain? Are all athiests 100% right? Boy, if I didn’t have my faith in God, I would be in the dumps. But Guess what? Thing is, people are not perfect. Atheism can not be completely correct, no matter how much evidence you have. We have a book that is from a perfect being. God can be 100% correct.
The Bible is an anvil. Atheism is a hammer that beats it. Which is worn out in the end? The Bible still stands strong.
May 11th, 2009 at 10:25 pm
And once again you sidestep. There is nothing in the bible about carnivores with herbivores teeth at one time and that god changed them in the twinkle of an eye. That is what I mean: You have added a detail to christian theology that was never there, which is why you do not answer. You blaspheme.
“have you ever visited a Bible is perfect site to see your points disproved?” Yes. I do not have a closed mind. What impressed me the most was the proof that if god exists he is remarkably inarticulate. I wish I could remember the specific verse, but I do remember it was about 15 words long, and the “explanation” to explain away the obvious contradiction was 3 pages long! In your belief system, god hung the fate of your immortal soul on a book that cannot be understood in its own words and thus relies on fallible interpretations. O, the love. O, the mercy. By the way, what does “moab is my washpot” mean?
Just FYI, I was raised a christian and attended christian school through the 8th grade. I even once wanted to be a preacher. But no one could answer my questions and doubts. And I eventually saw that the reason for that was that there are no valid explanations. My family was Lutheran, but I went to church with my Southern Baptist grandparents as often as I did the Lutheran church. But it was only in the Lutheran school that I encountered the hatred of Catholicism that you have spewed.
Interestingly, I worked with a woman who was “born again”, and in her belief system, YOU would be considered as deeply in error as any catholic. You are what her church calls a “denominational christian” and thus as bound for hell as any…sodomite. O what’s a poor sinner to believe since god did not provide very clear instructions other than to believe on Jesus, which she does and you do, but she thinks you’re going to hell. Her church has tens of thousands of members, so if numbers of believers determines the truth of a belief, could kindly tell us what the number is? I mean is it true if 10,00 people believe? Ten million? Come on. You have details about christianity I never encountered before in church or school or anywhere - such as your tooth statement.
May 11th, 2009 at 11:20 pm
To eat meat you need inscizors. To eat vegetation you need molars and other “flat teeth”.
Ah! That explains it! Lutheran(watered down catholics) and southern Baptists(Compromisers). That it why you did not recieve the answers you required! You were involved in these compromising churches. I bet you sang that “Shout to the Lord” contemporary garbage too. If your Christian school could not answer your questions, the school was not adaquate in its Biblical knowledge, or the teachers had no respect for the children’s learning of the Bible. My school seems opposite. The teachers were ready and willing with open Bibles to explain our questions. It made them joyful to answer the questions.
Nope. It doesn’t matter how many people believe, it is what they are believing in. 10,000 people can be led astray, while 1 wise person can see the truth. Those 10,000 would be saved if they believe this and only this with no exceptions. “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved”. Just believe on Jesus that he died for you and you will be saved.
I do not believe that only baptists will go to heaven. Some Methodists, Lutherens, Churches of Christ and God, and even Catholics will go to heaven, as long as they believe that Jesus Christ died for them. That lady, if she did not believe on Christ as her savior, she is lost. By the way, this is not “my” belief system, it is God’s.
There is no such thing as a non-denominational church. If she is catholic than she is associated with the catholic denomination. Well, the true believers always have been a minority. I’m sorry to say, the majority of people will go to hell. There is one way out. Jesus.
What? Not good instuctions? Believe. Thats it. Simple and to the point. If she believes what I stated earlier, she is on her way to heaven. If so, she is merely mistaken on the “denomination” idea.
I am looking for the verse on moab being a washpot. I think I know, but i need to see if I am thinking about the right verse.
May 12th, 2009 at 8:57 am
Again in post 48 we have D spouting the No True Scotsman fallacy, repeatedly. D, again, try the google for some help with that one.
Jagannath, per your earlier remarks in another thread (excellent remarks as usual), maybe we need an RF prize for NTS instances, along side the Pascal’s Wager daily awards. Ding ding…
Religion is ridiculous.
May 12th, 2009 at 11:10 am
Just sharing some info. my friends :)
http://creation.com/was-leviathan-a-parasaurolophus —–>
Teeth and Tucker
“Although scientists tend to classify animals as herbivorous or carnivorous, most animals can be either, depending on circumstances. Articles we have published on carnivorous herbivores include Bird-killing sheep, Carnivorous cow5, Carnivorous kangaroos?6 Wild and woolly, Hen-hunting horse, and A taste for blood. Articles we have published on herbivorous carnivores include The lion that wouldn’t eat meat, Mango mutts?7 Meatless mutts (1)8, Vegan dog, Meatless mutts (2)9, and Lea, the spaghetti lioness10.”
Before the Fall, all animals were herbivorous (Genesis 1:30–31), but in the cursed post-Fall world of today it seems that virtually any creature will resort to carnivory if hungry enough.
…………………….
http://creation.com/the-carnivorous-nature-and-suffering-of-animals
May 12th, 2009 at 1:04 pm
Ally thanks for providing what D could not for some reason. A biblical basis for assuming all animals had the teeth of herbivores. Not sure what the point of the rest of your post is since it seems to be saying that animals with either kind of teeth will eat food appropriate to the other kind of teeth, so there is no reason to assume god changed the teeth, but I don’t care either; I’ve seen enough of this conversation. It’s typically pointless. The only believer I have encountered on this site that I can feel any kind of respect for is Muslim woman. At least she thinks and is honest about her conclusions and willing to consider other sides of questions. So, so long, D. Watch out for that flying slobber, OK?
May 12th, 2009 at 8:31 pm
Regarding post 50, so then do you think that tyrannosaurus rex and many, many other well-established carnivorous creatures lived after this “fall” that you postulate, and then, did that fall come before the cretaceous period?
How long ago do you really think such a “fall” happened? And how is it that your omnipotent, omni-benevolent god was powerless to prevent such a “cursed” outcome?
Yet again, the Christian creation tales grow stranger and more incredible as the believers twist and stretch them in vain attempts to fit an unyielding reality.
Religion is ridiculous.
May 13th, 2009 at 12:18 pm
Korgan i already gave you reading on some of those topics and you don’t read them!
May 13th, 2009 at 7:58 pm
This is only a partial truth;
this text left out the Omnivore, Fungivore, Bacterivore to name the most common classes. But there is also Coprophagy, Detritivore, Geophagy, Osteophagy and Scavenger.
The simplification in the quote is, if not outright deception, a slanted view of the truth. A slant which can be exploited in many ways.
The genesis claim is based on a particular translation, on particular version of a bible and on which language you use.
For example by using the Vulgate bible the same verse translated from Latin is as follows;
actually paints a more modern picture of the eating habits of various animals. Where there is life, you can devour it. Not particularly discriminating, eh?
Also there is a problem in regards where does bible tell of the partial re-creation all the sudden?
The problem of biblical information remain, which version one is to trust?
May 13th, 2009 at 8:19 pm
Regarding post 50, so then do you think that tyrannosaurus rex and many, many other well-established carnivorous creatures lived after this “fall” that you postulate, and then, did that fall come before the cretaceous period?
How long ago do you really think such a “fall” happened? And how is it that your omnipotent, omni-benevolent god was powerless to prevent such a “cursed” outcome?
Yet again, the Christian creation tales grow stranger and more incredible as the believers twist and stretch them in vain attempts to fit an unyielding reality.
Religion is a disease of the mind. Inoculate against it with reason.
May 19th, 2009 at 9:45 pm
Hi, Ally from May 3rd, 2009
With all due respect, why should I care what is in the Bible? When I wrote my response, I didn’t even mention the Bible.
Many people throughout the world live lives happily untouched by the Bible. And thus, your quotes from Mat 5:45 & Hbr 11:6 have no effect on me as well. Are we non-Christians supposed to go, “Ah-ha! I should’ve known. Now, I believe.” just because you sprinkle them in your response?
Actually, I have read the Bible in its entirety, found it to be an interesting, but uneven read. I am aware that Jews like Job thousands of years ago had similar problems that all people have faced, except car accidents as in my example. How is the Bible unique in this respect? Most literature, if not all literature catalogs the struggles of being human.
Here’s a random quote from a book I just threw open:
Chapter 9, p. 62: “Nakedness dreams are very common.” A Thousand Acres by Jane Smiley. Analyze that. I am aware that nakedness also appears in Genesis, so perhaps this quote will strike a chord with you.
I’m not arguing the Bible’s authenticity or factual content. However, since you brought it up, I must say that the Bible doesn’t hold any relevance for a lot of people–billions of people. If it does for you, that’s your choice.
All I was saying is that many people on earth live meaningful, challenging lives without Christianity, the Bible or religion period. You would not be able to pick us out of a line-up unless we were to actually mention our lack of religion. We are your neighbors. We might even be people attending the same church as you, but have not made the great leap of faith away from your church. Someday, if you’re lucky, you will be looking at one of us in the mirror.
Peace,
Marie
FYI, Korgan & Rucker - thanks for your support & I enjoyed your expanding to my argument.
May 19th, 2009 at 10:18 pm
To Korgan & Rucker, thanks for all your responses to Christians who throw out Biblical quotes like a ball machine at a batting cage. Those quotes have no meaning if you don’t believe the relevance of the Bible.
May 20th, 2009 at 7:15 am
What I find interesting is that many of the christians spouting verses are actually spouting the opinions of other people of which they have read or heard. They do not seem to have any real personal opinions in regards of what they try to hand off as true meaning of a verse.
If you have no own opinion of an issue, then do you really have any validity or even reason to discuss of the issue?
May 20th, 2009 at 4:03 pm
Re Post 58
That is true, but the bible is NOT the matter of a “personal OPINION” —> 2 Peter 1:20 “Knowing this first, that NO prophecy of the Scripture is of any private interpretation.”
The bible is a revelation from God and it should be it’s own interpreter.
1 Corinthians 2:13, “Which things also we speak, not in the words which man’s wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth: comparing spiritual things with spiritual.” See also Isaiah 28:9, 10.
God has to teach a person the scripture —–> Luke 24:45.—-> 45Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,
Regular SKEPTICS ain’t gonna understand it! —-> “But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.” (1 Corinthians 2:14)
Yuh need the holy spirit to understand the bible because it was the holy spirit that inspired men to write it!—-> Proverbs 1:23. “Turn you at my reproof: behold, I will pour out my Spirit unto you, I will make known my words unto you.”
2 Peter 1:21 “For the prophecy came not in old times by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.”
John 16:13 when he says, “Howbeit when he, the SPIRIT OF TRUTH, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.”
Though God’s truth is absolute, for FINITE beings it is progressive John 7:17 “If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.” John 16:12 says, “I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.” One has to follow the truth they already know and God then gives them More if one doesn’t follow what they know then they can ultimately be lost ——> John 12:35 “Then Jesus said unto them, Yet a little while is the light with you. Walk while ye have the light, lest darkness come upon you: for he that walketh in darkness knoweth not whither he goeth.”
A lot of people who put PRIVATE INTERPRETATIONS to scripture get themselves and others into trouble. ——>
2 Peter 3:15, 16 15And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
16As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are UNLEARNED AND UNSTABLE WREST, AS THEY DO ALSO THE OTHER SCRIPTURES, UNTO THEIR OWN DESTRUCTION.
For instance, the church during the dark ages, Jim Jones, David Koresh etc. That is why it is important for each individual to know what the bible teaches for themselves, so false teachers and churches CANNOT lead them astray!
Those of you who have FAITH in the eviloutionists this verse is for you —->
2 Timothy 3:7 (King James Version)
7Ever learning, and NEVER able to come to the knowledge of the truth.
May 20th, 2009 at 4:09 pm
I wish you well Marie :)
May 20th, 2009 at 4:30 pm
Regarding absurd statements by creationists rejecting evolution such as in post 59, it has to be noted yet again that the mere existence of fossils of lineages of hominidae variants that are precursors to homo sapiens renders Christian creationism absurd and false. That is just one aspect of the now overwhelming evidence for evolution and against creationism.
Ally, do you deny the existence of such fossils? (Yes or no answer is appropriate; we get tired of your lengthy spew from your book of horrors bible.)
Religion is ridiculous.
May 20th, 2009 at 9:48 pm
“Knowing this first, that NO prophecy of the Scripture is of any private interpretation.
The bible is a revelation from God and it should be it’s own interpreter.”
LOL!
So I guess you’ll be the first to stone your children to death in line with the instructions quite clearly set out in Leviticus?
All religions with ’sacred texts’ are open to interpretation, otherwise there wouldnt be so many schisms.
The Inquisition was inspired by text found in the bible - lovely!
May 21st, 2009 at 5:04 am
But you do not even do what others do. You recite verse after verse. You spout scripture that most of us have read and know of but you do not offer anything else but text that is already known.
But you do bring out a point
Making me ask you these questions, why do you keep reciting verses if you know we cannot understand it? If you know that each individual must learn oneself what bible says, then why you throw out snippets constantly?
Do you see the corner you painted yourself into?
May 21st, 2009 at 8:07 pm
jag said:- “But you do not even do what others do. You recite verse after verse. You spout scripture that most of us have read and know of but you do not offer anything else but text that is already known.”
jag!! that is not true! when I do give texts i generally give ILLUSTRATIONS and you all IGNORE them (I guess it’s the tunnel vision they tend to train atheists with in the secular schools but thank God, try as they may, MOST people do NOT convert to atheism :D).
Yes jag you all KNOW OF the verses and you all WREST it out of context and that is dangerous.
For instance: when the pagans used to torture Christians in the arenas during the dark ages, in order to JUSTIFY it, they said that the Christians were cannibals.Jesus had said that the communion bread represented His body and the wine (UNFERMENTED grape juice) represented His blood and the Christian was to eat the bread and drink the wine as a symbol of the Christian’s acceptance of Christ’s sacrifice on our behalf. [See Matthew 26:26-29] Atheists might think they are not capable of such things as torturing Christians in arenas, but you never know.
Do you now see how dangerous it is to WREST the scriptures out of context? As pagan Rome transitioned to Papal Rome, they still wrested the scriptures out of context so that they can be in CONTROL. The Church DID not get the instructions from God’s word! they proceeded to take a prerogative that belongs to God alone, upon themselves whereas the bible teaches Separation of Church and state! Meaning that each person should follow God or NOT follow God, based on the dictates of their conscience and No Man should infringe upon the rights of another.We should LOVE people into the church by being good examples ourselves; that was Jesus’ method! :).
jag said :- “Making me ask you these questions, why do you keep reciting verses if you know we cannot understand it?”
LOL. I’m kinda hoping that some of you would lose your tunnel vision and let the Holy Spirit work on you so that you would be able to discern the truth from God’s word. I told you all when an atheist recognizes the gems contained in the Bible, WOW! :D
I also told you we do like you all and we don’t wanna see you all losing out on ETERNITY because of unbelief :)
May 21st, 2009 at 8:52 pm
Ally, enough of your horrid spew. Answer the question:
The mere existence of fossils of lineages of hominidae variants that are precursors to homo sapiens renders Christian creationism absurd and false. That is just one aspect of the now overwhelming evidence for evolution and against creationism. Do you deny the existence of such fossils?
Religion is a disease of the mind. Inoculate against it with reason.
May 21st, 2009 at 10:41 pm
Hi, again, Ally,
In post 59, in response to Jagannath 58, you write “Do you now see how dangerous it is to WREST the scriptures out of context?.” But this is exactly what you are doing. You are taking quotes out of the Bible and sprinkling them to and fro as if they were freshly ground pepper over a spiritual pasta dish. What you are doing is the very definition of “wresting the scriptures out of context.” The context is the Bible.
I’m not going to argue the content of the Bible, only the fact that your constant Bible quotes amount to jibberish and are irrelevant to non-Christians. Even if I were to take quotes out of the Bible to prove you are wrong, I would not do it because I don’t believe that the Bible is the source of unique truth anyway. Most of us have heard these quotes over and over again. It’s pretty easy to locate a quote online just to prove just about any point. Are you trying to convince us to believe as you do because you quote a lot? It just isn’t working. While I don’t want to encourage you, if you were to try a different conversion tactic it might add variety to your posts.
Sigh. I’m tired & I’m signing off to go to bed. Nighty night, Ally, you need a little rest too!
Marie
May 21st, 2009 at 11:40 pm
I have to note the extreme hypocrisy in Ally’s accusations of “tunnel vision”. Ally, you are the one who is predominantly citing a single, very flawed (and very horrid) reference as the only thing that “backs up” your specious claims. Most of the readership here has read your reference stories from the Christian book of horrors, but you don’t seem to have read much outside of it.
Step outside your tunnel and read a biology textbook for a change, even an introductory text on evolution. What Evolution Is, by the great Ernst Mayr, would be a good start. You might enlighten yourself.
Religion is a disease of the mind. Inoculate against it with reason.
May 22nd, 2009 at 5:51 am
So, pagans used rumors to justify killing christians. Newsflash, they would have used any cause, even the fact that christians were atheists towards roman gods as cause to throw them to the arena. It had nothing to do with the faith but of the societal troubles christians caused by their peculiar demands of selling all and giving it to the church. There was lots of reasons for the romans to want the new cult out as they refused to follow the law.
So you claim to have the perfect, inerrant knowledge of the god’s will and of the meaning of the bible. No one else can understand it differently?
If you give illustrations and those are ignored, could it be that your interpretation is not accepted. Perhaps you offer a version of a bible that is as detestable as those who came before you? Perhaps your version of the bible is the false one as it is not accepted.
And bible is used to justify just about anything, by the christians. It is your holy book, no one else uses it as a justification. I use it mainly as a representing sample of the trouble christianity can cause. AS how it is interpreted by christians to mean what they find suitable to them, not as what is written.
If you say that you cannot take bible as written then you say it is not inerrant. If you say that one needs to be filled with holy spirit to understand it, then you say bible is not inerrant word of god as you need translation and interpretations aid.
I opened the bible and picked a verse, tell me where I twist the meaning and wrest it out of the context.
Prince of peace made a whip with metal pieces tied to the leather thongs and used it as a weapon to drive away the people in the temple. Scourge being the same weapon which was later used upon him prior crucifixion.
He attacked people who were granted place by the temple by the authority in charge. Even if later he would claim that one should give Cesar what is Cesar’s thus showing that laws were meaningless to him, unless he would be able to use them into his own ends.
In summary a supposedly peaceful and loving man caused monetary damages to the people, inflicted physical injury and caused civil unrest. These were acts of a violent, bigoted and anarchistic man, who had no respect for fellow man nor to the law.
But to crush your hopes I say this to you;
so there you have it, I am now irredeemable. Anything you do or say in an attempt to save me is a direct act against the will of god. Mark 3:29
May 23rd, 2009 at 9:39 pm
Hey jag! are you mad at me? :( I kinda got that impression from your last post, I hope you’re not you know? I hope we’re still friends :)
You said:- “So, pagans used rumors to justify killing Christians. Newsflash, they would have used any cause,…”
jag? i said “for instance”, just to show “AN example” of how humans like to rationalize just about anything so they could do what they want to do! and yes EVEN CHRISTIANS!!!! People are evil, ALL people are sinners [that's why we NEED GOD to direct us! :)] Believe you me jag, if the 10 commandments are kept because of love to God, we would have NO trouble (sin).
You said:- “It had nothing to do with the faith but of the societal troubles Christians caused by their peculiar demands of selling all and giving it to the church. ”
I did say before, that the devil is behind all the evil in this world and you do not believe that he exists; that’s a big mistake man. That fiend is incredibly crafty, totally, totally diabolical and bent on destroying all humans if he could. He uses any means necessary, even if it’s PRETENDING to be an “angel of light”. Meaning, he would cloak his devices in religious garbs; even Hitler used that tactic!
There are demons working behind the scenes enticing people to do wrong — see Ephesians 6:12
These demons PRETEND to be angels of light in order to deceive people — see 2 Corinthians 11:13,14
Atheists always seem to “marvel” at what people do in the name of God but the bible shows all of those things did happen and will happen until Jesus returns. He says He (God) will separate the sheep from the goats; the wheat from the tares etc. God KNOWS who the genuine articles are and will be :)
I had said :- “when the pagans used to torture Christians in the arenas during the dark ages, in order to JUSTIFY it they said that the Christians were cannibals. ”
Correction, it was prior to the dark ages and NOT during. And yes the bible shows the struggles of the church. The disciples (except for John) were martyred. Satan was sure mad and was attacking the church left and right. Christ DEFEATED him! LOL. In The OT some of the prophets were martyred too. I mean, the first murder ever was over worship and the devil instigated it!
You said:-”So you claim to have the perfect, inerrant knowledge of the god’s will and of the meaning of the bible. No one else can understand it differently?”
It seems you misconstrued what i wrote. I said the bible is its own interpreter and the Holy Spirit helps man(generic term) to understand. For example, the bible teaches that when people are dead they go back to the ground, they are not some disembodied souls floating around, humans do not have immortality. That teaching is consistent in the bible and yet a lot of Christians believe that the dead can contact them or are in heaven looking down at us or that evil humans are in hell. The bible shows that hell does not exist yet and would not exist until 1000 years after Jesus returns. One finds answers to doctrines such as these by comparing scripture with scripture and letting the bible tell you what it means and not just the idea of some pastor or priest. Eg. purgatory is mythology from the pagans it is NOT a biblical teaching. When people do not check what the bible says against what a pastor or priest etc. teaches, they can very easily be deceived! When a person is SINCERELY seeking truth the holy spirit helps them understand more and more. Of course only God knows how fast of a pace the seeker or believer can assimilate what truths are presented. God does not give us too much at once or we may get overwhelmed.
You said:- ”
If you give illustrations and those are ignored, could it be that your interpretation is not accepted. Perhaps you offer a version of a bible that is as detestable as those who came before you? Perhaps your version of the bible is the false one as it is not accepted.”
Well i already said that the bible is its own interpreter, and maybe it is ignored because it actually make some sense to some of you. Oh, come on jag, ALL humans have a yearning for God because He made us that way that’s why most people worship some type of god and atheists worship their own brain or Richard Dawkins etc. :P
Secularists worship American IDOLS etc.(BTW a lot of secularists (and even church folk) believe in a god but they don’t know what the bible teaches or have a personal walk with God and that’s where the herd mentality gets developed. False teachers could tell them anything and they believe it. They believe in statues drinking milk or weeping tears of blood or olive oil etc. and the bible WARNS people about these things!
You said:- “And bible is used to justify just about anything, by the christians.”
I have never disputed this. However, God does have genuine people scattered amongst all people groups [even amongst atheists ;)] Each human is responsible for their own salvation and should not base what God teaches by the actions of erring humans.Oh jag i admonish you, read the bible and do like what the apostle Paul told the pagans to do, talk to the UNKNOWN God, ask Him to teach you truth. If you are sincere, He will answer that prayer :)
Jag!!! you sure are good at deliberately wresting the scriptures out of context.:)
In John 2:15, yeah he made a scourge out of SMALL CORDS and it DIDN’T say He scourged them. I kinda picture He was similar to you know that snoopy cartoon? well that kid with the blanket who chases people away by whipping the blanket at them and saying back! back! back! :D
Also, when you look at the other gospels which COMPLEMENT each other, you see that right after Jesus chased out the moneychangers, He healed people and the children came to Him (see Matt. 21:12; Mark 11:15; Luke 19:45). People would not have come to a mad man. (My Jesus is gentle, only people bent on evil are bothered by Him or people who MISUNDERSTAND Him). Jesus also instructed/s His people to obey the 10 commandments and to obey the civil laws of the societies in which they live in, as long as those laws do not go against The 10 commandments.
Anyway, the theme in the bible is, we are sinners, we deserve death, God is loving and GRACIOUS, He would take us back through faith and once we abide in His word. Until the end of this world there will be conflict between people who love and obey God and people who obey the devil. Genesis 3:15 shows the conflict and the entire bible enlarges on that theme.
You said:- “I deny the holy spirit
so there you have it, I am now irredeemable. Anything you do or say in an attempt to save me is a direct act against the will of god. Mark 3:29″
There you go again jag, wresting the scripture out of context. That text is talking about the UNPARDONABLE sin. Generally, people who commit that are not even aware that they committed it. Besides, there is no mark of Cain upon you ;)
Also, God is not willing that any should perish 2 Peter 3:9. God loves you jag and He WANTS to save you. So i am NOT going against God’s will ;)
PS Yeah Korgan, another lengthy Ally spew :D
May 24th, 2009 at 6:01 am
If stating what happened is wresting things out of context then the question of what is your context
Jesus made a whip used for torture, where I twist the words?
Jesus drove people and animals forcibly out, where I twist the words?
He caused monetary damages to the people, where I twist the words?
He destroyed property, where I twist the words?
So, Jesus made a weapon, attacked people and animals, caused civil disturbance, monetary damages, property damages, where I twist the words? That is what happens in that verse.
-Are those acts peaceful?
-Are those acts lawful?
-Do you support random assaults on unknown people?
-Do you support breaking the property of some passerby?
-Do you support random animal cruelty?
-Do you support stealing?
-How you can support any of the above acts?
How these acts can be justified to be acts of a peaceful, loving man and not as acts of violent, belligerent person who has not respect to law and order?
The word used for the weapon used by the romans on jesus and the weapon used by jesus is the one and the same. Even allowing the fact that romans had refined their scourge to be as efficient as possible and jesus had diy-version, that has little effect on the intent, even if it would be only made of cords. Actually even if it would have been made of strings of wool, it makes no difference.
There is clear depiction of intent to cause harm, premeditated harm as if you go out to find the materials, you fashion the scourge and then assaulted the people who break no laws. People who are peaceful and obedient to the laws in effect.
It does not matter if he healed them after-wards as that does not negate the original act, merely alleviates the physical injuries caused.
If someone plans to kills a neighbor and kills him. But after checking he really is dead decides to resuscitate him so that his heart starts to work again and he can be saved by doctors.
-Does that mean he did no harm?
-Is the original act negated by following act?
-Did he not commit murder?
You can try to sugarcoat it as much as you want but jesus has been depicted as highly irrational person in the bible.
Sane person does not go out and curse a fig tree which has no figs, because it is not the season.
Sane person does not condemn entire cities just because he was unable to make them to listen to him.
But the lack of sanity of jesus is merely the fact that he is the god, who has been proven by the OT to be of highly dubious character making any human atrocities to be mere ill-willed jests.
As jesus also has no objection to the laws of OT and he endorses them and makes claims that he came with a sword because it is god speaking.
And denying holy spirit is unpardonable sin, which I have committed in text, and word according to your bible.
Denying the word of god is also a sin and you have gone against the inerrant word of god for many times already. You do realize that you are going more and more against the teachings of the bible and even your own claims as you keep writing.
If you say that bible does not mean this or that, then the question is why do you read it, if you have alternate meanings for just about everything in there? Write your own.
Anger? Come on, get off your prosecution horse and dreams of oppression. A friend? Friends do not appear out of nothing, friendship is forged with time and deeds.
You demean many worthy concepts by sprinkling them around like chaff. Words have a meaning if you know how to use them, but by inconsequential repetition you are turning concepts into idle chatter which makes the content worthless.
May 24th, 2009 at 6:52 am
Ally, enough of your spew. Answer the question, one of many that you keep avoiding:
The mere existence of fossils of lineages of hominidae variants that are precursors to homo sapiens renders Christian creationism absurd and false. That is just one aspect of the now overwhelming evidence for evolution and against creationism. Do you deny the existence of such fossils?
Religion is a disease of the mind. Inoculate against it with reason.
May 24th, 2009 at 7:09 am
And to bring back to light yet another Christian absurdity, one of so many that Ally is persistently avoiding:
Your “god” of your Christian myths is purportedly all-powerful and benevolent, but yet again in post 69, you claim that a devil coexists in parallel with your god of your myths as the source of evil. It is absurd that an omnipotent creature, such as your god-myth is claimed to be, cannot simply do away with this devil without humans having to presently suffer for it (such as in your Adam and Eve fiction and other bible tall tales).
Religion is ridiculous.
May 27th, 2009 at 1:37 pm
Oh jag, a human= a friend
All people are precious to God and therefore the Christian, we are all brothers and sisters or friends :)You seem to think i meant some sort of disrespect when i said i hope we are still friends; not so, Sir :) that was a casual way of me asking you if you were upset (snarky?) and i did not want you to feel that way OK?
Also, atheists do not understand the deep things in the bible; y’all are surface readers (No holy spirit guiding y’all). Thanks to Marie, i realize that what i have been writing is gibberish to you all. Actually the bible says that happens lol. In your responses you had seemed to have some knowledge about Christianity; i did not know you were just reading the texts and putting your own interpretation of them in order to debunk what Christians say as you basically admitted in your post :) Actually, it is good that you do not blindly listen to what someone says, but without God guiding you, you would misconstrue the scripture. And please do not follow Korgan and those other atheists who like to go to the skeptics annotated bible ws; those dudes over there are jokers and they have no idea what they’re talking about. Even a willing semi-illiterate person can gain insight into the bible once they are HUMBLE. It’s not about IQ but about I WILL! That book, although it was written by men, is inspired by God and it is supernatural.
This might be more gibberish to you all but i’m still going to write it :)
God shows mysteries to people who are OPEN minded about Him.
Mystery —- An idea hidden in the mind of God from eternity but revealed to human beings at the right time. see Rom. 16:25-27
If one reads Mark 4:11-12, one would see why people who are close minded about the bible would NOT understand it.
There are two Greek words in verse 12:-
1. hina = in order that; so that; with the result that; because; that is to say.
2.mepote = perhaps; lest; otherwise.
Here is Mark 4:11-12 in plain English :-
And He began to say to them, “The mystery of the kingdom of God has been given to you. But to those on the outside everything is in riddles, because (hina), Although they look, they look and do not see, and although they listen, they listen and do not understand, otherwise (mepote) they would turn and it would be forgiven them.”
A parable puts a choice before someone:- Would you listen; would you understand?
People who have willing hearts will hear and understand the parables and to those who are not willing to understand, it’s like gibberish.
May 27th, 2009 at 1:54 pm
John 2:15 (King James Version) says
15And when he had made a scourge of small cords, he drove them all out of the temple, and the sheep, and the oxen; and poured out the changers’ money, and overthrew the tables;
and jag said:- “Prince of peace made a whip with metal pieces tied to the leather thongs and used it as a weapon to drive away the people in the temple. Scourge being the same weapon which was later used upon him prior crucifixion.
He attacked people who were granted place by the temple by the authority in charge. Even if later he would claim that one should give Cesar what is Cesar’s thus showing that laws were meaningless to him, unless he would be able to use them into his own ends.
In summary a supposedly peaceful and loving man caused monetary damages to the people, inflicted physical injury and caused civil unrest. These were acts of a violent, bigoted and anarchistic man, who had no respect for fellow man nor to the law.”
jag? you got all of that from one verse?! :O
Hmmmmmm, if we look at that verse OBJECTIVELY, we would see that it says that Jesus made a whip out of SMALL cords and He chased the moneychangers and their animals out of the temple.Then he overthrew the tables.
That verse did not say Jesus made a cat-o’-nine tails, it did not say He beat the people to a pulp, it did not say He hurt the animals or the people and it did not say He destroyed property!The only thing Jesus hurt was the pride of those GREEDY moneychangers and He interrupted the profits they were making from exploiting the people. People are watching too many Hollywood movies it would seem! But then again, not even the movies portrayed Jesus like that.
The bible contains a lot of historical information and if someone who is curious about why Jesus evicted the moneychangers by reading John 2:15, they would want to INVESTIGATE further in order to find out why a supposedly good man who claimed to be God incarnate, would do such a thing as get angry and chase people out of the temple.
If one would look into the historical facts (from history books and/or bible commentaries) and try to understand the customs of that day, they would get a clearer picture of what went on! Those moneychangers were robbing the people who were coming to the temple; they were selling the animals at EXORBITANT prices.
Here’s some info. on that ————->
http://www.biblehistory.net/Jesus_Cleansing_Temple.pdf
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The Bible doesn’t say there’s anything inherently wrong with paying taxes. Jesus had no quibble with paying the temple tax. Peter caught a fish with a coin in its mouth to pay the temple tax for himself and Jesus (Matthew 17:24-27).
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“Jesus’ behavior on this occasion - or on any other - is in no way comparable to:
men (or women) being physically abusive to their spouses, children, or others;
invading and occupying small weak nations for no reasons or for reasons only of ego and greed (as the Romans were doing in Judea and Galilee, …);
shooting, bombing, and torturing tens or hundreds of thousands of people to death or disability …;
lying about and misrepresenting some or all aspects of a situation in order to justify any of the above violent behaviors”
“JESUS DID NONE OF THOSE THINGS.
Using this incident in Jesus’ life to justify” [or accuse Him of instigating] ” the massive violence … (or any other misuse of force in our world) IGNORES what Jesus was really doing here.
He was physically expressing very appropriate outrage. He was not arresting, torturing, or killing anyone, neither the guilty parties nor innocent bystanders. He was expressing outrage at the misuse of religion in the service of greed, and at the abuse of the common people for the same purpose.
I have no doubt that God is outraged today with some American Christians for similar reasons.”
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jag, you do not understand what the unpardonable sin is.The unpardonable sin is when someone continually and persistently rejects the Holy Spirit. It’s when they grieve away the Holy Spirit. During Moses’ day, Pharaoh had committed that sin.
jag?! LOL Only God could decide when someone commits the unpardonable sin. No created being can judge/condemn another lol; not even their own self lol. But yeah, if someone does not want to hear about God they are entitled to that right and they probably wouldn’t come to sites like this one where discussions about God go on :)
May 27th, 2009 at 7:41 pm
To bring back to light yet another Christian absurdity, one of so many that Ally is persistently avoiding, once more in her latest lengthy and dishonest Allycrap spew:
Your “god” of your Christian myths is purportedly all-powerful and benevolent, but yet again in post 69, you claim that a devil coexists in parallel with your god of your myths as the source of evil. It is absurd that an omnipotent creature, such as your god-myth is claimed to be, cannot simply do away with this devil without humans having to presently suffer for it (such as in your Adam and Eve fiction and other bible tall tales).
Religion is ridiculous.
May 27th, 2009 at 7:43 pm
Ally, enough of your trademark Allycrap spew. Answer the question, one of many that you keep avoiding. Answer briefly, just yes or no:
The mere existence of fossils of lineages of hominidae variants that are precursors to homo sapiens renders Christian creationism absurd and false. That is just one aspect of the now overwhelming evidence for evolution and against creationism. Do you deny the existence of such fossils?
Religion is a disease of the mind. Inoculate against it with reason.
May 30th, 2009 at 3:04 pm
Korgan, you’re like a record stuck in the groove; you keep asking the same questions over and over but i suspect you don’t even read the responses.
The devil is a created being and he IS going to die; he is NOT immortal. The devil and his minions had committed the unpardonable sin and hell is supposed to be for them [see Matthew 25:41; Matthew 8:29]. Any human that ends up in hell can only hold themself responsible because Jesus took the penalty that we deserve. We can have everlasting life because of Jesus :)
Korgan? let’s say you have 25 children so you’re their parent; a parent is supposed to be loving and caring and a parent is supposed to provide SAFETY for all their children right? So you have rules to ensure the safety of your children. Let’s say one of your children decided to break your rules and the minute they did, BAM!!!!!! you execute him or her! What do you think your other children would think of you; do you think they would obey the rules because they realize that you love them and want to protect them or do you think that they would obey you because they’re scared stiff that you’re gonna kill them? If the children are obedient to you because of FEAR, that won’t be any fun, not for you and certainly not for them!
Satan wanted to usurp God! and you atheists are echoing his lies: Oh we got this, we don’t need God, we don’t need religion! Well the people of the French Revolution said that too and they had their goddess of “Reason” and we all know where that went. The communists tried that too and where is communism today?! I have seen communists/atheists in Russia storming biblical meetings because they had been soooooo starved for God’s word. I looked at them kissing the free bibles that they got; they were laying on the grass outside and caressing those bibles :D Man! atheism does NOT work!!!!
If this world had only atheists, BOOM!!! the devil would destroy it completely or God may have to, depending on how depraved and wicked it is. So y’all better consider yourselves blessed because there are believers here (remember In Genesis 19, God would have spared Sodom and Gomorrah if there were 10 righteous in those cities; he would have spared the wicked because of the righteous. Well, he couldn’t even find 5 righteous in those cities and Lot and his daughters escaped by the skin of their teeth and we all know the influence those wicked cities had on those girls because look at what they did with their father, eeeeeeeeeew.
Anyways, if the devil didn’t entice Eve to sin maybe sin could have originated with Eve. When created beings break the rules of a perfect and loving God then disease and death and chaos ensues. God is giving Satan time to demonstrate what life apart from Him entails and eventually God will make things new again and there will never be pain or sorrow or death again :) see Rev.21:4
Now you’re gonna ask why did God create Lucifer if God knew Lucifer would become a devil huh? Well, that’s human thinking! An all powerful God is not gonna let some stubborn, self willed, idiotic creature stop Him from creating. God is LOVE and He creates beings to love and for Him to be loved by them. The opposite of love is not hate but selfishness and God has billions and billions of beings to love and they love, worship and ADORE Him. We are in the minor minority down here and God still puts up with us. I mean he could have said “Forget them!” but He didn’t because he L-O-V-E-S us :D Also, He provided a way out for us :)
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Korgan, i keep giving you all this book that addresses some of these questions and you don’t look at it apparently :) ——> http://books.google.com/books?id=KOnRQ3hM8RYC
Here’s ANOTHER excerpt from the book:-
“For obvious reasons God brought Adam and Eve into existence without their free consent. God in His freedom and sovereignty decided and proceeded to create them. Their freedom emerged after their creation in the form of the possibility of a choice. The choices at the disposal of Adam and Eve were not many—they had only two.
We find both of the choices that they confronted in the text we quoted above” [Genesis 2:16,17]. “A superficial reading may give the impression that the choices were either to eat or not to eat from the tree. But they were not really about eating although it did involve that. The narrative takes us to the very depth of the nature of human freedom and establishes that such freedom has to do with the most fundamental question a creature has to address— that of choosing life or death. The biblical writer is not telling us that the universe possesses two eternal antagonistic forces, namely the power of God as life and the power of someone or something else as death, and that we can select between them. The issues are much more complex.
Let me suggest for your consideration that what the text establishes is that only God is, and that apart from Him there is nothing else,but between being with God and not being. This makes absolute sense within the flow of the narrative. As already indicated, Adam and Eve came into being without giving them freedom to choose to be created or not. That was a logical impossibility. But now the Creator did offer them the freedom to choose existence or nonexistence, that is to say, to freely accept the gift of life or to go back to nothingness. God offered the options in the firm command, because the creator had a preference. He wanted them to select life, and therefore He emphasized as strongly as possible that if they opted for death He would honor their choice and that they would “surely die.”
Obviously , rejecting God’s gift of life would be to spurn Him, an act of rebellion, but He was willing to accept their decision. Since God’s intentions for humans was positive, it is difficult to imagine that Adam and Eve would have seriously considered the possibility of rejecting life. But the option was there—otherwise God would have enslaved them to live on a planet for ever without their consent. …”
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Hey! look at this question that someone asked this ex - atheist who is now a pastor —->
http://www.amazingfacts.org/Radio/BibleAnswersLiveQuestionArchive/tabid/212/ctl/PlayMedia/mid/731/MDID/2519/PID/1358/SID/13/SQT/1000/7/Why-didnt-God-forgive-Adam-and-Eve/Default.aspx
May 30th, 2009 at 3:28 pm
Re: Posts 61,65,67,71,76 etc.
OK Korgan, secularists and/or atheists tried to get me to swallow this evolution fiasco BEFORE I became a Christian and I didn’t buy it! I had not been a Christian for longer than I have been one and I NEVER bought into it and if any human is honest with themselves they know it does not make sense! Those eviloutionists are LIARS. Korgan’s spiritual boss (the devil), is behind the whole eviloutionary “THEORY” thing.
Korgan?! you have faith in a bunch of LIARS; it’s rather lucrative for them to LIE. They PRETEND that there’s no God so they won’t have to think about His justice. Even if one experiences a tragedy, one should logically become a deist and not an atheist. Personally, i think they should redefine the term atheist. An atheist is one who has their head stuck in the dirt and is pretending there is no God so that they can do what they wanna do and not think about the consequences :D [Sorry people, i gotta tell y'all like it is]
Anyways, here’s some info i came across :-
” The Neanderthals were people who lived in Europe several thousand years ago. Because of the bad climate back then, they had arthritis and rickets, but their brain capacities were larger than ours. That means that they were smarter than we are today!
For over a century, evolutionists have tried to find bones of ancient people who were half-ape and half-human. But all they have found is ape bones and human bones. Sometimes the bones have been mismatched (a human skull with an ape jaw, for example), in an effort to make it appear that we descended from apes.
In order to try to prove their point, the evolutionists always come along with only a few pieces of bones. Those pieces can be matched together in several different ways, in an effort to show a part-ape, part-human creature.
But that is not really honest, is it?
Did you know that—in over a hundred years of searching—the evolutionists have only brought forth enough special bones to fill a tabletop? And there are many questions about those special bones, too! Many scientists have declared certain bones to be only ape bones, only human bones, or outright fakes.
There is another odd fact about that tabletop of bones: They are claimed to be a million years old—yet were often found in damp areas, such as England, Europe, Java, or China. Everyone knows that, what you put in the ground, including bones—rots away within a century or so. There is no possible way that million-year-old bones could be found in those rainy areas.
Some of these fake and mismatched bones are called “Java Man,” “Piltdown Man,” “Rhodesian Man,” “Nebraska Man,” “Peking Man,” and “Nutcracker Man.” Some have complicated names to make them appear scientific, such as “Eoanthropus.” and “Australopithecines.” But do not let the big names fool you; they are not what the evolutionists claim for them.
One method used to produce “half-ape, half-human ancestors” Is to use the skulls of baby apes or very large monkeys. These look somewhat like (forgive me for saying it) the skulls of humans who are 13 to 16 years old. Another method is to stain the ape bones, so they will look more ancient.
A Orthodontist named Dr. Jack Cuozzo, used a special portable x-ray machine to examine skulls of ‘Neanderthals’ that evolutionist were claiming to be ape-men. He found some of them had been filed to change them; some had the jaws removed and then pushed forward to make it look ape-like and one skull actually had a bullet hole in it which had been hidden by the ‘scientists’ displaying it. He wrote a book about it called “Buried Alive” and you can buy it on the Internet.
Let us turn our attention to real bones and footprints of real ancient people. When we do, we find several interesting facts:
1 - They were fully human, No part-human, part-ape bones or tracks have been found, because none ever existed.
2 – Such bones and tracks have been found in deep strata, which the evolutionists declare to be millions of years old —far older than man is supposed to have existed. That tells us that the strata are not really ancient after all! People have only been on the earth for a few thousand years. Those supposedly million-year-old rock strata were really laid down by the waters of the Flood, which occurred about 2348 B.C.
3 - Human tracks have been found above by, and below dinosaur tracks! So people lived when the dinosaurs did.
4 - Human tracks have been found stepping on trilobites in the very lowest of the strata: the Cambrian. So humans have lived on earth as long as there has been life on our planet!
5 - Human remains and man-made objects have been found inside solid coal, which shows that coal is not ancient either.
It is an interesting fact that ancient man was more intelligent than we are today. We know this because their brain cases tended to be larger. But we also know it because their languages were far more complicated than ours today.
It is also an interesting fact that it is now known that nearly all the earliest examples of human activity not only began only a few thousand years ago—but also began in the Near East, where the people settled after coming out of the Ark, which rested among the Mountains of Ararat just north of there.”
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Here’s an Ex Atheist’s take on eviloution :) He said, yeah, the big bang happened; God spoke and it happened! rofl ——>
http://www.amazingfacts.org/Television/EverlastingGospel/EverlastingGospelSermons/tabid/285/ctl/PlayMedia/mid/414/MDID/1163/PID/406/SID/2/SQT/1000/7/Evolution-Creation-and-Logic/Default.aspx <—– Evolution Creation and logic
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Here’s even more info., on your “fossils of lineages of hominidae variants”; happy reading :)
http://creation.com/the-non-transitions-in-human-evolutionon-evolutionists-terms
http://creation.com/images/pdfs/tj/j21_3/j21_3_118-127.pdf
May 31st, 2009 at 8:56 am
To bring back to light yet another Christian absurdity, one of so many that Ally is still avoiding, once more in her latest lengthy and dishonest Allycrap spew:
Your “god” of your Christian myths is purportedly all-powerful and benevolent, but yet again in post 77, you still claim that a devil coexists in parallel with your god of your myths as the source of evil. It is simply absurd that an omnipotent creature, such as your god-myth is claimed to be, cannot simply do away immediately with this devil without humans having to presently suffer for it (such as in your Adam and Eve fiction and other bible tall tales).
Religion is a disease of the mind. Inoculate against it with reason.
May 31st, 2009 at 8:59 am
Ally, enough of your lengthy spewing. Answer the question, one of many that you keep avoiding:
The mere existence of fossils of lineages of hominidae variants that are precursors to homo sapiens renders Christian creationism absurd and false. That is just one aspect of the now overwhelming evidence for evolution and against creationism. Do you deny the existence of such fossils? Yes or no?
Religion is a disease of the mind. Inoculate against it with reason.
May 31st, 2009 at 9:02 am
Time for another response to yet more lengthy Allycrap regurgitation from the Christian book of horrors. The bible itself presents a rather different picture than the one that Ally chooses to believe. The real picture of Christianity is a horrid, murderous, racist, and sexist one.
In response to the latest Allycrap, here are just a few of the many guidances to murder and violence, and other horrors promoted by the Christian book of horrors also known as the bible:
# Jesus says that he has come to destroy families by making family members hate each other. He has “come not to send peace, but a sword.”
# Jesus condemns entire cities to dreadful deaths and to the eternal torment of hell because they didn’t care for his preaching.
# Jesus will send his angels to gather up “all that offend” and they “shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.”
# Jesus is criticized by the Pharisees for not washing his hands before eating. He defends himself by attacking them for not killing disobedient children according to the commandment: “He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death.” (See Ex.21:15, Lev.20:9, Dt.21:18-21) So, does Jesus think that children who curse their parents should be killed? It sure sounds like it.
# Jesus advises his followers to mutilate themselves by cutting off their hands and plucking out their eyes. He says it’s better to be “maimed” than to suffer “everlasting fire.”
# “And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors.”
# In the parable of the marriage feast, the king sends his servants to gather everyone they can find, both bad and good, to come to the wedding feast. One guest didn’t have on his wedding garment, so the king tied him up and “cast him into the outer darkness” where “there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”
# Jesus had no problem with the idea of drowning everyone on earth in the flood. It’ll be just like that when he returns. 24:37
# God will come when people least expect him and then he’ll “cut them asunder.” And “there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”
# The servant who kept and returned his master’s talent was cast into the “outer darkness” where there will be “weeping and gnashing of teeth.”
# Jesus tells us what he has planned for those that he dislikes. They will be cast into an “everlasting fire.”
# Jesus says the damned will be tormented forever.
Mark
# Jesus explains why he speaks in parables: to confuse people so they will go to hell. 4:11-12
# Jesus sends devils into 2000 pigs, causing them to jump off a cliff and be drowned in the sea. When the people hear about it, they beg Jesus to leave. 5:12-13
# Any city that doesn’t “receive” the followers of Jesus will be destroyed in a manner even more savage than that of Sodom and Gomorrah. 6:11
# Jesus criticizes the Jews for not killing their disobedient children as required by Old Testament law. (See Ex.21:15, Lev.20:9, Dt.21:18-21) 7:9-10
# If you’re ashamed of Jesus, he’ll be ashamed of you. (And you’ll go straight to hell.) 8:38
# Jesus tells us to cut off our hands and feet, and pluck out our eyes to avoid going to hell. 9:43-49
# Jesus says that those that believe and are baptized will be saved, while those who don’t will be damned. 16:16
Luke
# God strikes Zacharias dumb for doubting the angel Gabriel’s words. 1:20
# Those who fail to bear “good fruit” will be “hewn down, and cast into the fire.” 3:9
# John the Baptist says that Christ will burn the damned “with fire unquenchable.” 3:17
# Jesus heals a naked man who was possessed by many devils by sending the devils into a herd of pigs, causing them to run off a cliff and drown in the sea. This messy, cruel, and expensive (for the owners of the pigs) treatment did not favorably impress the local residents, and Jesus was asked to leave. 8:27-37
# Jesus says that entire cities will be violently destroyed and the inhabitants “thrust down to hell” for not “receiving” his disciples. 10:10-15
# Jesus says that we should fear God since he has the power to kill us and then torture us forever in hell. 12:5
# Jesus says that God is like a slave-owner who beats his slaves “with many stripes.” 12:46-47
And that’s just to get started.
Religion is for the stupid, the ignorant, and the gullible, and for those who would profit from them.
June 1st, 2009 at 10:27 pm
Your “god” of your Christian myths is purportedly all-powerful and benevolent, but yet again in post 77, you still claim that a devil coexists in parallel with your god of your myths as the source of evil. It is simply absurd that an omnipotent creature, such as your god-myth is claimed to be, cannot simply do away immediately with this devil without humans having to presently suffer for it (such as in your Adam and Eve fiction and other bible tall tales).
Ally told you exactly what you needed, but since you want more, here you go you spiritual bolemic. (feel free to puke it up when your done thinking about it)
Our Lord, and your Lord(yes, He is still your Lord whether you like it or not), does not choose to do immediately away with Satan. He *could* if He wanted to, but that is *not* His plan or His will. F.Y.I, man doesn’t suffer because of the devil, man suffers because of his own sin.
Parallel with God? Ha! Satan has no power compared to what God has! What power he does have may seem great to us, but to God, it’s nothing. Anyway, God is not Satan’s “good” counterpart, and Satan is not God’s “evil” counterpart. They are not equal, and in my opinion, they can not even be compared together. How can Satan be as powerful as God, if he can not defeat Michael the Archangel?
“Any human that ends up in hell can only hold themself responsible because Jesus took the penalty that we deserve. We can have everlasting life because of Jesus :)”
That………that makes me want to jump out of my seat and praise the Lord! One of the best statements i’ve seen on this website! Thats great! Thanks Ally, you made my day.
June 2nd, 2009 at 8:17 am
Your “god” of your Christian myths is purportedly all-powerful and benevolent, but yet again in post 81, you still claim that a devil, “Satan”, coexists in parallel with your god of your myths as the source of evil. It is simply absurd that an omnipotent creature, such as your god-myth is claimed to be, cannot simply do away immediately with this devil without humans having to presently suffer for it (such as in your Adam and Eve fiction and other bible tall tales).
Religion is for the ignorant, the gullible, and the stupid, and for those who would profit from them.
June 2nd, 2009 at 8:22 am
Again, here are just a few of the many guidances to murder and violence, and other horrors promoted by the Christian book of horrors also known as the bible, that D is unable to respond to in any meaningful way:
# Jesus says that he has come to destroy families by making family members hate each other. He has “come not to send peace, but a sword.”
# Jesus condemns entire cities to dreadful deaths and to the eternal torment of hell because they didn’t care for his preaching.
# Jesus will send his angels to gather up “all that offend” and they “shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.”
# Jesus is criticized by the Pharisees for not washing his hands before eating. He defends himself by attacking them for not killing disobedient children according to the commandment: “He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death.” (See Ex.21:15, Lev.20:9, Dt.21:18-21) So, does Jesus think that children who curse their parents should be killed? It sure sounds like it.
# Jesus advises his followers to mutilate themselves by cutting off their hands and plucking out their eyes. He says it’s better to be “maimed” than to suffer “everlasting fire.”
# “And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors.”
# In the parable of the marriage feast, the king sends his servants to gather everyone they can find, both bad and good, to come to the wedding feast. One guest didn’t have on his wedding garment, so the king tied him up and “cast him into the outer darkness” where “there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”
# Jesus had no problem with the idea of drowning everyone on earth in the flood. It’ll be just like that when he returns. 24:37
# God will come when people least expect him and then he’ll “cut them asunder.” And “there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”
# The servant who kept and returned his master’s talent was cast into the “outer darkness” where there will be “weeping and gnashing of teeth.”
# Jesus tells us what he has planned for those that he dislikes. They will be cast into an “everlasting fire.”
# Jesus says the damned will be tormented forever.
Mark
# Jesus explains why he speaks in parables: to confuse people so they will go to hell. 4:11-12
# Jesus sends devils into 2000 pigs, causing them to jump off a cliff and be drowned in the sea. When the people hear about it, they beg Jesus to leave. 5:12-13
# Any city that doesn’t “receive” the followers of Jesus will be destroyed in a manner even more savage than that of Sodom and Gomorrah. 6:11
# Jesus criticizes the Jews for not killing their disobedient children as required by Old Testament law. (See Ex.21:15, Lev.20:9, Dt.21:18-21) 7:9-10
# If you’re ashamed of Jesus, he’ll be ashamed of you. (And you’ll go straight to hell.) 8:38
# Jesus tells us to cut off our hands and feet, and pluck out our eyes to avoid going to hell. 9:43-49
# Jesus says that those that believe and are baptized will be saved, while those who don’t will be damned. 16:16
Luke
# God strikes Zacharias dumb for doubting the angel Gabriel’s words. 1:20
# Those who fail to bear “good fruit” will be “hewn down, and cast into the fire.” 3:9
# John the Baptist says that Christ will burn the damned “with fire unquenchable.” 3:17
# Jesus heals a naked man who was possessed by many devils by sending the devils into a herd of pigs, causing them to run off a cliff and drown in the sea. This messy, cruel, and expensive (for the owners of the pigs) treatment did not favorably impress the local residents, and Jesus was asked to leave. 8:27-37
# Jesus says that entire cities will be violently destroyed and the inhabitants “thrust down to hell” for not “receiving” his disciples. 10:10-15
# Jesus says that we should fear God since he has the power to kill us and then torture us forever in hell. 12:5
# Jesus says that God is like a slave-owner who beats his slaves “with many stripes.” 12:46-47
And that’s just to get started.
Religion is for the stupid, the ignorant, and the gullible, and for those who would profit from them.
June 2nd, 2009 at 8:23 am
Ally, regarding your earlier posts, just answer the question, one of many that you keep avoiding:
The mere existence of fossils of lineages of hominidae variants that are precursors to homo sapiens renders Christian creationism absurd and false. That is just one aspect of the now overwhelming evidence for evolution and against creationism. Do you deny the existence of such fossils? Yes or no?
Religion is a disease of the mind. Inoculate against it with reason.
June 2nd, 2009 at 8:50 am
Apparently Satan has enough power to formulate a plan to try and overthrow God without his knowledge. Really now, if God knew Satan was going to betray him and take 1/3 of his angels with him why would God have created Lucifer in the first place?
June 26th, 2010 at 10:37 am
I am prepared to suspend my disbelief to appreciate a very good indicate
August 16th, 2010 at 10:34 pm
Marc, why do you have a son, when you know he is going to screw up in life?
Why do you let him eat sweets when you know it will make him fat?
Why do you let him watch horror movies that will warp his mind?
Why do you let him climb trees, knowing that he will fall out once and hurt himself?
Why do you let your dog run around unfenced if there is a highway 2 blocks down?
And Korgan, once agian, relating to your fossil problems, I believe in the existence of those fossils. I merely disagree with your interpretation of their age, relevance and value.
Recent studies have shown that the earths crust moves in a sporadic pattern. Contradicting what everyone, even I believe. The crust is actually pushed up, while certain areas are reversed down, causing fossils and such that were actually recent, to be farther down in the earth. This is what allows you to find these fossils waaay underground in older soil, and as you base the date of the fossils on the items surrounding them, and the items on the fossils, you can see your flaw.
Just saying, this is not 100% correct, but it has high relevance. It is indeed happening, but to what extent is still being researched.
Sorry for digging up old comments, but I miss the old days here.
August 16th, 2010 at 11:41 pm
I believe I never can answer anything. The bible makes people sick cuz they have to eat the shit it is full of.
This is truth here: http://evilbible.com
August 16th, 2010 at 11:51 pm
Shit, we broke D. And he eats shit too.
This is truth here: http://evilbible.com. Read it and learn.
August 17th, 2010 at 10:47 am
I think Korgan’s point was mainly about the existence, not the date, of the fossils of hominid variants. It is correct to state that the existence of these fossils directly contradicts biblical creation stories, regardless of what strata or apparent stratum sequence the fossils are found in. That’s just one more massive piece of evidence among many that show just how silly and false creationism is.
Well, happy hominid studying,
Ian Forsdyke
and the meme is taking hold:
It’s 2010. Fuck your stupid jesus stories.
August 17th, 2010 at 9:47 pm
Thats nice, but the existence cannot prove anything in of itself, according to what you all have already stated.
Furthermore, age was not the only thing stated.
August 18th, 2010 at 10:26 am
Either your reading comprehension is very weak, or you are wilfully ignoring the facts that have been presented to you, or both. That’s pretty typical of the religiously deluded, and not very surprising.
Read and understand: “the existence of these fossils directly contradicts biblical creation stories, regardless of what strata or apparent stratum sequence the fossils are found in.” To elaborate for stupid deluded fools such as D, that is just one of many points of proof that christianity and the bible are just myth. Really sad that anyone falls for bible nonsense these days.
Ian
It’s 2010. Fuck your stupid jesus stories.
August 18th, 2010 at 5:49 pm
92 is a massive logic and comprehension fail. Wow, take a basic logic course. You’ve confused non-existence provability with something very different. Fuck, this D. of 92 is stupid.
It’s 2010. Fuck your stupid jesus stories.
August 18th, 2010 at 7:53 pm
Ouch. Poster of 92 just got SPANKED big time. And PWNED. Good one. Spank spank spank.
August 20th, 2010 at 2:20 pm
ie your interpretation of the fossil’s data.
Apparently you can’t comprehend, and you blame it on me. Lol
And personally, I think that it is poor athiesm to conjure up some random names and use them as different persons.
Korgan. You aren’t fooling anyone.
I read back in some earlier posts in 2007, and this stuff you’re pulling now, you did to hyrocket.
Lrn2comeupwithnewstrategyplz
August 20th, 2010 at 2:47 pm
Either your reading comprehension is very weak, or you are wilfully ignoring the facts that have been presented, or both. That’s pretty typical of the religiously deluded, and not very surprising.
Read and understand: “the existence of these fossils directly contradicts biblical creation stories, regardless of what strata or apparent stratum sequence the fossils are found in.” To elaborate for stupid deluded fools such as D, that is just one of many points of proof that christianity and the bible are just myth. Really sad that anyone falls for bible nonsense these days.
Ian
It’s 2010. Fuck your stupid jesus stories.
August 20th, 2010 at 2:48 pm
92 is a massive logic and comprehension fail. Wow, take a basic logic course. You’ve confused non-existence provability with something very different. Fuck, this D. of 92 is exceptionally stupid.
It’s 2010. Fuck your stupid jesus stories.
August 20th, 2010 at 2:49 pm
Ouch. Poster of 92 just got SPANKED big time. And PWNED. Spank spank spank. SPANK!