It’s been a while since we’ve done a little questions and answers session with a reader so let’s have at it.
I’ve been talking with Bridgett recently, one of our regular readers who you may recognize as deletedsoul. She was kind enough to share her evangelical childhood experiences with me. It’s very well written and insightful. I promptly asked if she’d be interested in sharing it with the world. She agreed with hopes that it might shed some light on the evangelical lifestyle and it’s effects on her.
Here’s a sample taken from her blog entry. If you find it interesting, please read the entire post at her site. Once you’re done please ask Bridgett any questions you’d like in the comments section here. I’ll pass them off to her this weekend and provide you with the answers once I receive them.
There is only one rule. Keep the questions and comments on track and pertinent to the topic (no flaming evangelicals). Bridgett was kind enough to let us in to her life, so please show her the respect that she deserves.
Me at 17–deletedsoul:
At 17 I was immersed in “church life”, fighting with my parents and many issues at home, yet still trying to live up to the expectations that they held for me. I wasn’t expected to get a college degree, I wasn’t even fully expected to find a husband and start a family. No…the expectation…the requirement…was that I would remain a steadfast, semi-fanatical, non-questioning, devout, spiritual “Christian”. Granted, I had my moments of rebellion growing up, but I never slipped out of the house late at night, I never smoked, never drank or did any drugs. The closest thing to sex was stolen kisses behind the church or a naughty late night chat session (once I finally had internet access). No, I was a good kid, as far as appearances go. I had to appear meek and devout, innocent and un-tainted.
No related posts.
Wow, That’s pretty heavy.
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Originally I’d ask a bunch of questions regarding your faith, but instead I was going to ask. What’s your opinion of young evangelicals today? There’s a growing trend young adults becoming active recruiters. The use of peer pressure and training has lead to the so called “para-ministers” mostly working their way into social circles in schools and such. Id go so far as to say a lot of these people also are quite skilled at dealing with arguments against creationism? I feel it’s just sophisticated brainwashing but I’m sure you have a interesting angle on it.
Hello deletedsoul,
Thank you for the opportunity to ask questions. Your blog entry was well written and interesting. Congratulations on becoming a fellow ex-evangelical. It takes a great deal of personal courage and integrity to reject the beliefs of our parents.
I have a few questions. Please, don’t feel that you have to respond to them all.
1. How would you categorize and/or describe your current view of religion? Non-evangelical Christian? Agnostic? Atheist? Pastafarian? Other?
2. Is your family aware of your choice to reject their beliefs? If so, how did they react when they found out and how do they treat you now?
3. Do you go through a period of deep resentment for being lied to? I know I did, and still do from time to time.
1) Whst does it mean for someone to be an “evangelical” in your mind?
2) If you feel, as Sid said, that you’ve been lied to, what was the lie?
3) You say that you’d never be part of a church again. Do you mean any church, just a Christian church, or that particular sub set of Christianity?
When you were still, how do I say this, “under the influence” of faith, what was your opinion of those who didn’t believe? I oftentimes wonder just what most evangelicals actually think. I find it tough to belive that most of them are as radical as the loudest few are, and so I wonder. Also, how did others you knew react to nonbelievers/those of other faith/those “not faithful enough”? Did it seem like some of them really weren’t that fanatic about it? Did it seem like for many it was just being pushed along and a fear of alienation, or something else? Or is it really that involving? From what I’ve seen, much of it these days is about creating a virtually intoxicating experience and then trying to affect people’s opinions under this kind of state.
Hi deletedsoul -
like you, I used to be an evangelical too, but have become (at the moment, seemingly) irreversibly disgusted with Christianity. I’m now an agnostic/athiest. I frequent this blog often for like-minded discussion and because I think it so well exposes serious flaws in religion.
As a former Christian, I think you can well understand the difficulties in reconciling the idea[delusion] that a loved-one is “doomed to hell” — it is because of this, I’ve continued to lead my aunts/uncles and cousins to think that I’m still Christian for over a decade. I still have difficulty with this because it’s intellectually dishonest for me, but as one who used to be part of the “dark side”, and you know as well as I do that this allows me to avoid a lot of unnecessary pain and hassle on both sides.
I was wondering what you think of this policy. What have you done in your life, and your move out of your church to deal with family and friends who care and love you?
(I don’t mind anyone else answering my question as well, since I’m always curious about other peoples’ points of view…)
deletedsoul – First, thanks for posting the story of your journey. Mine follows a similar vein although I didn’t finally throw off the shackles of religion until around my 27th birthday. I am almost 29 now. I remember the pain removing that thorn caused me and I wasn’t lucky enough to have someone to guide me down that path.
My wife has lost faith in organized religion and I can see her struggling with her faith. I am not pushing atheism on her as that would be no better than her parents doing it. My question is, what did your husband do for you to support you on your journey from Evangelical to where you are now? I want to ease her through the loss of faith, if that is what she chooses, as well as I can.
Hey Deletedsoul, always good to see the blind gain the ability to see :)
My story is somewhat similar to yours, with the immersion in the Southern Baptist belief system. Having it pushed down your throat constantly. Forced to go to church. I dispise every parent that does that to a kid because I know what it is like. They DON’T BELIEVE. They just tell themselves they do to satisfy you. Eventually they either rebel against it completely, like me, or they become brainwashed into believing they do. It is called indoctrination, and it is wrong.
When did I finally realize 100% that there was no god? It was when I was in boot camp. It was tough, and I prayed nightly for god to get me through it. I am not sure what it was but eventually I came to the realization that it was moronic for me to be praying to god to get me through that experience. That the only entity that could get me through it was me. And I did. Of course, some people will say that god answered my prayers. If he/she/it did, the prayer that they answered was the one that got them out of my life forever. Once on the outside, I can see the ridiculous nature of organized religion. And I give thanks to reason every day for my freedom from that horrorfest.
Do you remember if there was a specific argument or moment that made you change your mind about religion?
Sounds quite familiar, a lot like what I went through at almost the same age(though I used to be a Moslem)
Most questions I was going to ask were already put forth by the other people here, this is all that remains:
When/How/Why(if at all) did you decide to tell your family/friends that you had abandoned the Church? (empathies on the why)
I brought up in secular humanism; I wish my experience was like this one. No, I satified my flesh in every way imaginable with the encouragement of those in authority. To boot, I was miserable and knew it. I praise God that Jesus entered my life at 30 yrs. old (This freak has a Master’s Degree and makes just under six figures). There are many like myself that see your religion as divisive.
Scripture is Good News – my four kids love church, life, Jesus, Sports, Sunday School, reading the Bible, their parents, friends (saved and unsaved), etc. I see many of their peers sad, unsure, lonely, etc… not that they will never face disappointment and trials, but your religion of secular humanism has left a historial and scientific trail of darkness and emptiness that can not be measured.
HEY, CALL ME A FREAK (AND THE BILLIONS OF OTHERS THAT HAVE OR WILL EXPERIENCE A LIFE WITHOUT EVIL, DARKNESS, AND NO HOPE!!!
Also, Jesus loves each one in this blog.
I pray he uses your curosity and openness to the spiritual to save souls through Faith (not works, which it appears many here experienced – Note that is not the Christianity outline in God’s Words).
I work with youth and see a disconnect between what there parents supposedly believe and what they do. It is human to be weak. to look for a way out, to do what is easier for us. So parents do it, they know their kids will.
Ive noticed people telling their kids the right thing while not adhering to it themselves. It doesnt mean its bad advice or belief its just that they dont want to see the ones they love make the same mistakes. Just like a good parent wants to protect their children you do what you think is best. Sometimes it doesnt work. Sometimes we error while trying to do what we think is best. We are all going to be guilty of that from time to time.
This is not at all in response to what the Deleted soul’s experience. I dont want to make light of pain. Suffering is seasonal it seems. I have had tons even since walking with Jesus (through the spirit). I know that sounds weird but that is the thing I have come to know more than anything in life. he doesnt deliver us out of life, He just is with me through it. I know That I never have to walk through it alone. sometimes it feels like no one else knows what it feels like to be me. But then he reminds me that he suffered all things too. Not to “one up me” but to say hey your identifying with me. and I love him.
Have you ever weeped because of the overwhelming happiness that you have inside? Everytime I feel his presence I break.
http://www.rochesterfirst.org/revaudio3.html
wow, that’s almost exactly the way I feel about it. Like religion is some kind of asuring yourself that everything is going to be allright, that someone is going to fix everything for you, while you really have to do it yourself (or ask a real person for help)
Now for an actual question:
Why do you think you shouldn’t tell religious people they are/might be wrong?
Personally, I don’t want to put anyone through the disillusionment I went through, when I put two and two together and figured out God was as real as santaclause, but I think that it is for the best. Some people really are beyond help, but I’m much happier now that i’m not wasting my time in church and prayer, but actually fix my problems.
You know, Worldview’s response made me chuckle a little. It seems whenever a believer starts talking about how they “found christ” they were always a miserable soul until they were enlightened. They also always talk about how they survey the landscape and see all of us heathens miserable, etc and we don’t even know it. Its like they all read from a script.
I guess when you believe in nonsense, thats just about all you can talk about. For the record, once I dropped god like a hot potato, I became a MUCH happier person. I would be even more happy if your flock would quit coming to my door every saturday and stop trying to pass laws based on your little book.
Oh and Ben? When you break down and weep because of the “overwelming happiness” you have inside, it sounds like a chemical imbalance and you might want to have that looked at.
Since two seem so sure of yourselves, I have a question for you. It is a time honored question mixed with the subject of this thread (indoctrination of youth by adults ). Would you say that your belief is mutually exclusive with, say, the beliefs of Islamic folk. For instance, someone born and raised and dies islamic can not go to heaven since they didn’t accept your jesus. And, conversely, according to them (someone will have to correct me if I am wrong, I know almost nothing about this form of the sickness) you will be going to whatever they have for hell since you never accepted muhammed or whatever. With that stated, wouldn’t them teaching their kids that islam is the one true way be damning their kids to hell? Those kids would never have a chance to make a fair choice since they are raised from the diaper to believe they are right. Assuming you are right (I giggled a little at that thought) then they are committing a huge injustice in teaching their kids their religion before they ever had a chance to make up their own mind. They were FORCED into a belief system. And vice versa.
My point is this: Survey the landscape of religions out there, how many of them are there? How many of them are, like yours, exclusive of all other religions? Do you HONESTLY believe you just happened to be born into a family or a country that knew the one true religion? How do you know this? Because someone told you? Because you “feel” it?
You have NO idea how funny your religion is. I really have a hard time coming to terms with the concept that a thinking, reasonably intelligent human being can believe that junk at all. Yet they do. It just floors me. And you have NO idea just how silly it all is either! haha
Hey Deleto soulo…got asbestos?
Funny how it is all a silly joke to you, but you can’t stop talking about it and even name yourself in relation to it…or should I say Him.
I am going to assume your comment was directed at me there Charles. I think it is a fair assumption.
I can’t stop talking about it? On a site that is dedicated to it? Do you know how moronic that comment is? What do you mean by “name myself in relation to it”? Are you referring to my name? If so, it was my mother’s idea – not mine. After 35 years, I am quite attached to it now.
I swear, I think you are the poster child for believers.
Michael, I don’t want to hijack this thread, but I’ll make two quick comments.
One) I don’t have any problem beliving that you’re legitimately happy. You can do whatever you please and fill every need you have. How could that not make you happy.
Two) Being a Christian doesn’t automagically make one happy and my brethren up there that seem to be claiming that it does are doing so for good, if misguided, reasons. I’m happy sometimes, sad others. Being a Christian isn’t about “feeling good”.
Hi Scott,
I just needed to clear one thing up. Your point number one is incorrect. I can not do whatever I please and fill every need I have. This is a common believer fallacy. They seem to believe without god, one can not be moral, which I laughable. It is just as false as saying that with god one can not do evil. I certainly hope you don’t believe that.
Of course I can’t say I have never stolen. Always minor stuff as a child, as children will do. This was also during the time I thought I believed in god :) Since I became an adult the only thing I have stolen is downloaded some music. Yea, I am evil for that. I bet a lot of so called christians have done at least that, many more. I have never murdered, can all christians say that? Never mugged anyone. Don’t drink or do drugs. Not a racist, lots of so called christians can’t say that.
I’m not going to go on all day listing all possible sins, I am sure you get my point. JUST because you believe in god does not make you inherently more moral. In some cases I find it makes you LESS moral since, as stated earlier, it is fairly easy for one to justify all kinds of stuff if you are just doing it for god. Just ask the “witches” in Salem during the burnings.
I didn’t say it makes you less moral. It just means that you can set your own morality. Of course you could successfully argue that I can too by picking and choosing form different parts of the Bible. By “do whatever you please” I honeslty only meant that. I’ve known many atheists that I would consider moral people.
Bridget has thought-provoking recollections and reflections. What she describes is the wing of evangelicalism that believes in grace in theory, but not in practice. It promotes a performance-based religion that stifles true biblical freedom. I’ve had a similar experience, and I hope she or others who are interested can check it out:
Confessions of a Bible Thumper -
http://deepthoughtpub.blogspot.com/
My question to Bridget is do you still have some form of faith in Christ and what does that entail?
Micheal, I don’t think your question will be answered. Your best chance is to respond to het blog (link the article) because the question-and-answer forwarding was a one-time-only thing, and the odds that she’ll read your question are slim, to none.
note the date on the article. March 2007.
For all those Christians who feel that non-believers “just make up their own beliefs,” why did you choose to believe in fundamentalist forms of Christianity? Isn’t that picking and choosing? And is it truly a more difficult path than the rest of us? I think that it too is a personal choice. There is this perception that the more logic-bending the religion, the greater the faith and suffering on the part of Christians. The fact that I and others chose not to believe in Jesus, does not mean that we suffer less than you. Well, perhaps we have chosen to suffer less mentally.
Let me relate a little history in fortune & faith or lack of it:
I’ve been in several car accidents -11 out of 12 being caused by other people per the police reports, 1 mine. I’ve been told that my “bad luck” was due to my lack of faith. What? Christians don’t have car accidents? Yet, I survived each one without a scratch. Maybe God loves me more than you? Or, maybe I’m so evil I can’t be killed off. Which is it?
Some Christians, Calvinists in particular, will say that their prosperity is due to their profound faith, yet claim that true Christians get persecuted. They will claim that Christians have no voice in the public sector, yet, no major party will ever support a non-Christian, let alone an atheist Presidential candidate. An open atheist will never get elected in this country.
Where exactly is the persecution against Christians in this country? Where is the excess suffering that Christians have over non-Christians in this country?
Atheists suffer. They have car accidents, they get killed, they have disease, they get thrown in prison in certain Muslim countries just like Christians and Jews do. Atheists and agnostics have parents that they have to take care of in their waning years. They do so with as much care and pride as many Christians do. They also raise responsible children with great citizenship (my boldly atheist daughter being one of them). The one thing we don’t have that you have is your faith in Jesus as Savior. And for that, we agnostics and atheists are very, very thankful. It actually takes a lot of hope & faith to be an agnostic or an atheist. It also takes a lot more curiosity about the world than it does to be a Christian.
No, we don’t have your religion & we don’t want it. We suffer as Christians do, but without the mental agony of a belief system that defies reality. As someone who has not been a Christian for 30 years, I can not put in words how unafraid & full of hope I am for my life on earth and beyond. There is a whole world of freedom outside the shackles of “true belief.”
Marie,
Thank you for that fantastic post. It is a breath of fresh air compared with the religious idiocy and nonsense that has appeared in many posts here lately by Christian zealots and apologists.
Thanks. You made my day.
Korgan
Religion is ridiculous.
Marie – I echo what Korgan said about your post. Also it made me think about one of the things Christians so often bring up which is the notion that without religion my life has no meaning. Actually I think it takes far more courage to realize that we give our own meaning to our lives than to have that “meaning” prepackaged and force fed to us. My life is meaningful because I make it so, and because this life is almost certainly all there is, the task of creating our own meaningful lives is perhaps the most important thing one can do, must do.
What’s Marie talking about? The bible addresses principles for all situations. She is actually saying what the bible says when she said this:- “The fact that I and others chose not to believe in Jesus, does not mean that we suffer less than you”
Mat 5:45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.
And it’s “clear” that Marie never took a close look at the book of Job in the OT. WE are in a cosmic conflict, Satan hates God and God loves us!!!! In order to spite God, Satan attacks us and if one seems to be on Satan’s side he may leave them for a while just till they serve their purpose and then he still turns around and kills or maims them just for the heck of it! God has such extreme pathos and He did come to earth and suffered so He knows “firsthand” what we go through!
Obviously Marie did not have a love relationship with Jesus. He unlike “All” of us, never ever sinned and look what happened to Him and yup, the “religionists” were the ones that instigated it and the “pagans” finished it!
To “reiterate”, this is the point of the whole cosmic conflict:-
Eph 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high [places].
And i hate to tell you this Marie but history has a way of repeating itself, for there is nothing new under the sun. What happened in the past is going to happen “AGAIN”.
Atheists may “seem” to have sorta “moral” lives (Hmmm, i wonder what or by whose “standard” they judge their “morality”?
Anyway,outwardly some atheists may seem to have “a form of Godliness”
2Ti 3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
But you all are making the same mistake as the Jewish nation of old; they were cut off or separated from God because of “unbelief”
Hbr 11:6 But without faith [it is] impossible to please [him]: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and [that] he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
Outwardly it “seemed” that they were good and moral but they did not have love, and faith worketh by love.
Gal 5:6 For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.
The bible records those people as being soooo caught up in their “traditions” that they did not realizethat they were still breaking God’s commandments.
Mat 15:9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching [for] doctrines the commandments of men.
Mar 7:7
Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching [for] doctrines the commandments of men.
Jesus came to “magnify” the 10 commandments and to show us how to live because every body else kept falling short and could not live “righteously”, not even when they thought they were!
Also Marie when “probation” closes, the “holy spirit” would no longer be pleading with people and those who refuse God’s love would actually be demon possessed;
they won’t be able to control their minds! God would have given them their desire i.e. to be apart from Him for good and that would be a shame when He loves us so.
Marie, i’m also talking to my self here, i gotta keep looking to Jesus because it would be a shame for me to be like those 5 foolish virgins in the parable in Matthew 25
“No, we don’t have your religion & we don’t want it.”
Every body has “free will”. It’s just that there will be consequences.
I’ll end this post by encouraging you to focus on love and to base your belief on a loving God who created you and wants to save you and please don’t judge God or the bible on the faults of professed followers.
http://www.amazingfacts.org/Radio/JoeCrewsRadioSermons/tabid/90/ctl/PlayMedia/mid/423/MDID/1740/PID/713/SID/4/SQT/1000/7/Faith-that-Works/Default.aspx
Absolutely hilarious, the parable of ten virgins, did you ever read it? There is few nice parts in regards of the christianity that you most likely glazed over.
Where does the parable show the good qualities of christianity? When they were not willing to share or when they did not bothered to wait? The real kicker in my opinion is the end,
The old reliable, ‘or else’-clause. Jesus was as much of a schlemiel in NT as in OT.
Jesus a “schlemiel”? Man at the end of the world and at the end of the milleniun “every knee shall bow and every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord.”
Rom 14:11 For it is written, [As] I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.
Here is a movie that basically says How this thing is gonna go down! BTW the guy hosting it “USED” to be an atheist. You should listen to a couple of former atheists; open up your mind a lil’!:-
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-236603451790404943&hl=en
——————————————————————————–
Now for the parable!
Parable definition:-
1. a short allegorical story designed to illustrate or teach some truth, religious principle, or moral lesson.
2. a statement or comment that conveys a meaning indirectly by the use of comparison, analogy, or the like.
Listen to this or read it, it explains the parable:-
http://www.amazingfacts.org/Radio/JoeCrewsRadioSermons/tabid/90/ctl/PlayMedia/mid/423/MDID/1943/PID/916/SID/4/SQT/1000/7/Probation/Default.aspx
The bridegroom= Jesus the creator and redeemer
The bride = the church
bridesmaids= church members
The lamp= the word of God a.k.a the Basic Instructions Before Leaving Earth (BIBLE) :)
The oil= the holy spirit (yuh can’t share the holy spirit man; yuh can’t go to heaven riding on the coat tails of someone else!) That alone shows that “purgatory” is a myth; dead people can’t do anything and death means probation had closed for that individual, so no amount of prayers for the dead could help ‘em. Oh and the dead folk are in the graves “asleep” and the righteous ones did not go to heaven yet and hell does not exist yet and hell will be “temporary”.
Why would Jesus let in people into heaven who are not “genuinely” converted? That will only result in all the “evil” (that you atheists keep harping on) to occur “again” so nope, evil will be eradicated! Heaven is going to be a place of L-O-V-E!
PS You and Korgan are funny but shhhh, don’t tell him i said so OK?:)
I find it entertaining to see what Christians choose to claim is literal and what is allegorical. Just, whatever is convenient for them.
As an afterthought:
Ally, you might have a wealth of knowledge about what the Bible says, but you lack the wisdom to understand why it says what it does.
http://www.compellinglove.org
Relating to post 26, I just want to get something off my chest. Christians suffer for Christ, as do athiests suffer for their beliefs. Jew seem to have suffered the most(Hitl-’s evil Holocaust), but they still did not suffer as much as Christ. He bore everyone’s sins, every one.
(This part is more for the Believers on here, but you can read if you want) I do not believe a true Christian should go around saying, “OOOhhhh, everyone hates me….I suffer so much….OOOhhhh…..the devils been on my back all week….poor me…” Get a grip, Brother. Someone calling you a Stupid a-s Christian is not persecution, no matter how rude it may seem. Being tortured, and then slowly killed is persecution. Being beaten for you beliefs is persecution. Having your family taken from you is persecution. We should not sorrow over our sufferings, we should rejoice! Be exceedingly glad for persecutions! Christ suffered to save us, so why not suffer to glorify Him?Job sure did. He praised the Lord for his suffering. Meh, the things we endure are nothing compared to what he suffered anyway. Brothers, not to be rude, but most athiests have suffered far greater than some of you ever will.
P.S. Thank you for the sharing of your story, deletedsoul, as it was interesting.
Regarding post 34, the whole world has suffered long enough for the utter stupidity of the Christian religion and the horrific violence, sexism, and racism that is part and parcel of Christianity. It is high time for the world to move on, and to leave behind the religious superstitions of its primitive past.
Religion is a disease of the mind. Inoculate against it with reason.
http://www.reasonproject.org/
Religion is ridiculous.
Meh, Christianity has been around, and it will not “die” until God takes us out in the rapture. No, your statement is incorrect. The world has had nothing but *gain* from true, Bible believing Christians. The “Christian” horrors you speak of are not relating to Believers, but to the perverted followers of catholisim. Catholics are not true Believers. Baptists, Waldinians, Albadingins(incorrect spelling), plus many more, were persecuted by catholics. Normally, unbelievers associate “Christian” with catholics, and that is why I mainly say “Believer”. True Christians have not persecuted anyone, and please do not pull out the “sodomites are persecuted by them” garbage, because true Christians would not persecute them, we would only make our opinions, and God’s opinions of them, known. We love the sodomite, but hate the sodomy.
Let me say this about the main topic-
The woman was not saved in the first place. When you become saved, you are placed in God’s hand, and no man can pluck you out, not even yourself. You will probably say, “well what if am a Christian and I decide I do not want to be one?” You will not have that feeling if you are a true Believer. Trusting in Christ is the greatest thing you can ever do. If you want to renounce your Christianity, go ahead. You do not have it anyway. True Believers will stay steadfast in their beliefs. Nero was good at persecuting Christians because he realized they would not renounce their faith in Christ. He would light them on fire ,like candles, in his garden if they would not renounce.
F:B(For Believer)If you are saved, sometimes you may doubt your salvation, saying “I don’t think I got saved right,” or I don’t feel saved.” All you must do to do away with your doubt is say to your self what you are trusting in. If you truly, with all your heart, trusted that Jesus,the Son of God, Died on the cross for your sins, was buried and rose again on the third and appointed day, then you are saved “without a shout of a doubt.”
Your spew about “The woman was not saved in the first place…” is the No True Scotsman fallacy in spades. Go read up on it on the google.
Your delusion about the rapture is alarming, and is yet one more reason why Christianity is so harmful. Your fiction that your sky crane is going to whisk you away is absurd, and is merely a dodge from the problems that you and the world face.
Religion is for the stupid, the ignorant, and the gullible, and for those who would profit from them.
You are ignorant concerning the Bible. You do not understand that a true Christian would not turn away from God. If they turn away from God and feel no conviction, remorse, or chastisement from God for what they have done, then “but if ye be without chastisement wherefore all are partakers, then ye are bastards and not sons” comes into place.
You know what? If my salvation is incorrect and in vain(not), then do not tell me, as it is enhancing my life. I have the greatest joy i have ever known. If you take that away, then I will feel like you athiests, empty,with nothing to guide me in the present, no hope of the future, and no idea of the past.
People try to prove the Bible wrong because it is the only thing that can prove everything else wrong. It has a verse on every subject you all can come up with, and can disprove them all. Thank *God* for the Word of *God*!
“If you take that away, then I will feel like you athiests, empty,with nothing to guide me in the present, no hope of the future, and no idea of the past.”
And once again D makes ridiculous judgments based on no evidence at all. See where blind faith can lead you – into error. I do not feel empty, without guidance, or hopeless and I obviously have a better understanding of the past than D, as does Korgan and Jag etc. After all, D. makes up much of what she asserts about the past (see the teeth discussion). So once again the arrogance of a believer leads to false conclusions.
“People try to prove the Bible wrong”
and have succeeded.
Just thought I would finish the sentence for you D
Let me make adjustments to your statement. They have tried to prove the Bible wrong, and have failed. They will continue to try and disprove and will continue to fail. They have tried for thousands of years to dissprove the Bible, but yet here it stands, strong as ever. These athiests will fail just as all the others. There is nothing any different than these. They are still fools as the Bible says, they still worship the creations instead of the Creator as the Bible says, and they still are unsaved as the Bible says. You cannot prove there is not a God. Even if you reject the Bible, there are still so many wonderful things that show there is a God.
Did you know that a great scientist said that evolution has as much chance of happening as if you put some monkeys on some keyboards and they managed to type Shakespears play out without any errors multiple times?
The idea of evolution is absurd. Some of you should read my post that attacks evolution. I will state it again. If you evolved from some animal, why not have relations with the relatives of that animal? Some of you thought,”well excuse me, I am so offended, that is just not a scientific approach, and so that is wrong.” That statement is very correct. You all just won’t admit it. You all make fun of me when I talk about sodomites. You think you are so “educated”. But an educated person knows when he is wrong, and admits it. Korgan, the prime example, sometimes can find nothing else to use against me and so he says for “D. to f-off and go away.” He has said this at least two times. This seems a victory for God in my eyes. You all can try and try to prove the Bible wrong, but you never will. You may have taken it out of schools, court houses, and other major places, but it will never be taken from the home. This girl is an excellent example of a person who just went through the motions, and never had the love of God in her. May God steer her back to the paths of righteousness, before it is too late.
Accurately said, rucker.
I have to add, D manages to include both the No True Scotsman fallacy (repeatedly) and Pascal’s Wager in post 39 and previously, along with other basic fallacies. It’s not really surprising.
D, do the world and yourself a favor: do at least a little reading on basic logical fallacies, else you will continue to be way out of your depth posting here. Better reasoning skills will cure your religious delusion, too.
Religion is ridiculous.
“If you evolved from some animal, why not have relations with the relatives of that animal?”
Well, it’s not that this is unscientific. It’s that’s it’s pointless. It’s intended to sound profound when actually it’s a red herring. We’re supposed to smack our foreheads in disbelief that we missed that all these years. So simple really. If other primates and humans share a common ancestor, then OF COURSE, we would all be wantin’ to ball apes. It just stands to reason.
As for proving the bible wrong, it’s been done here over and over not to mention at the skeptics bible site. You just keep ignoring the proof. People do continue to believe in it, of course, but anyone can see that belief proves nothing about the thing believed.
So when are you going to explain why you keep adding things to christianity? Seems blasphemous to me.
Thanks, Korgan. And also for your comment about the rapture. One of the things that worried me about Reagan was that he was a rapture believer. As was Bush 2. Really, really don’t want such types in charge of nuclear weapons as they have no respect for life.
In fact the lack of respect for life (the only life we know) is common to religion from the relatively benign Buddhist perspective to the “we love death” islamic killers of Hamas.
Wrongly said rucker, incorrectly said Korgan.
Rucker, you become saved by believing Jesus Christ is your savior, and He died to save you from Hell. Nothing more, nothing less. I have not changed what the Bible says about Christianity. Korgan, with his falsly led mind, takes verses out of context to prove his points. As a matter of fact, I pity his foolishness, as he is an unbeliever and knows no better.
You keep referring to the skeptics Bible contradictions, but have you ever visited a Bible is perfect site to see your points disproved?
Jagganath presented a “contradiction” to me earlier. The verse on God repenting. He did not want to accept my explanation, and I am rooted and grounded in the word of God and would not conform. It is unthinkable for me to change my beliefs, as I have found so many truths in the Bible. We both had no more to say about the issue, so it was dropped.
About the rapture, you all should be glad when it happens. No more Christians. Thats most of your so called “problems” gone. I can’t wait till my sky crane comes to wisk me away. Away from this atheistic foolishness, and away from these islamic terrorists. Thank God if it would happen right now.
I have realized that if we use scripture, you call us scripture spewers. If we use historical or scientific knowledge, you call us ignorant. So is there a way for us to fight back? Is it all in vain? Are all athiests 100% right? Boy, if I didn’t have my faith in God, I would be in the dumps. But Guess what? Thing is, people are not perfect. Atheism can not be completely correct, no matter how much evidence you have. We have a book that is from a perfect being. God can be 100% correct.
The Bible is an anvil. Atheism is a hammer that beats it. Which is worn out in the end? The Bible still stands strong.
And once again you sidestep. There is nothing in the bible about carnivores with herbivores teeth at one time and that god changed them in the twinkle of an eye. That is what I mean: You have added a detail to christian theology that was never there, which is why you do not answer. You blaspheme.
“have you ever visited a Bible is perfect site to see your points disproved?” Yes. I do not have a closed mind. What impressed me the most was the proof that if god exists he is remarkably inarticulate. I wish I could remember the specific verse, but I do remember it was about 15 words long, and the “explanation” to explain away the obvious contradiction was 3 pages long! In your belief system, god hung the fate of your immortal soul on a book that cannot be understood in its own words and thus relies on fallible interpretations. O, the love. O, the mercy. By the way, what does “moab is my washpot” mean?
Just FYI, I was raised a christian and attended christian school through the 8th grade. I even once wanted to be a preacher. But no one could answer my questions and doubts. And I eventually saw that the reason for that was that there are no valid explanations. My family was Lutheran, but I went to church with my Southern Baptist grandparents as often as I did the Lutheran church. But it was only in the Lutheran school that I encountered the hatred of Catholicism that you have spewed.
Interestingly, I worked with a woman who was “born again”, and in her belief system, YOU would be considered as deeply in error as any catholic. You are what her church calls a “denominational christian” and thus as bound for hell as any…sodomite. O what’s a poor sinner to believe since god did not provide very clear instructions other than to believe on Jesus, which she does and you do, but she thinks you’re going to hell. Her church has tens of thousands of members, so if numbers of believers determines the truth of a belief, could kindly tell us what the number is? I mean is it true if 10,00 people believe? Ten million? Come on. You have details about christianity I never encountered before in church or school or anywhere – such as your tooth statement.
To eat meat you need inscizors. To eat vegetation you need molars and other “flat teeth”.
Ah! That explains it! Lutheran(watered down catholics) and southern Baptists(Compromisers). That it why you did not recieve the answers you required! You were involved in these compromising churches. I bet you sang that “Shout to the Lord” contemporary garbage too. If your Christian school could not answer your questions, the school was not adaquate in its Biblical knowledge, or the teachers had no respect for the children’s learning of the Bible. My school seems opposite. The teachers were ready and willing with open Bibles to explain our questions. It made them joyful to answer the questions.
Nope. It doesn’t matter how many people believe, it is what they are believing in. 10,000 people can be led astray, while 1 wise person can see the truth. Those 10,000 would be saved if they believe this and only this with no exceptions. “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved”. Just believe on Jesus that he died for you and you will be saved.
I do not believe that only baptists will go to heaven. Some Methodists, Lutherens, Churches of Christ and God, and even Catholics will go to heaven, as long as they believe that Jesus Christ died for them. That lady, if she did not believe on Christ as her savior, she is lost. By the way, this is not “my” belief system, it is God’s.
There is no such thing as a non-denominational church. If she is catholic than she is associated with the catholic denomination. Well, the true believers always have been a minority. I’m sorry to say, the majority of people will go to hell. There is one way out. Jesus.
What? Not good instuctions? Believe. Thats it. Simple and to the point. If she believes what I stated earlier, she is on her way to heaven. If so, she is merely mistaken on the “denomination” idea.
I am looking for the verse on moab being a washpot. I think I know, but i need to see if I am thinking about the right verse.
Again in post 48 we have D spouting the No True Scotsman fallacy, repeatedly. D, again, try the google for some help with that one.
Jagannath, per your earlier remarks in another thread (excellent remarks as usual), maybe we need an RF prize for NTS instances, along side the Pascal’s Wager daily awards. Ding ding…
Religion is ridiculous.
Just sharing some info. my friends :)
http://creation.com/was-leviathan-a-parasaurolophus —–>
Teeth and Tucker
“Although scientists tend to classify animals as herbivorous or carnivorous, most animals can be either, depending on circumstances. Articles we have published on carnivorous herbivores include Bird-killing sheep, Carnivorous cow5, Carnivorous kangaroos?6 Wild and woolly, Hen-hunting horse, and A taste for blood. Articles we have published on herbivorous carnivores include The lion that wouldn’t eat meat, Mango mutts?7 Meatless mutts (1)8, Vegan dog, Meatless mutts (2)9, and Lea, the spaghetti lioness10.”
Before the Fall, all animals were herbivorous (Genesis 1:30–31), but in the cursed post-Fall world of today it seems that virtually any creature will resort to carnivory if hungry enough.
…………………….
http://creation.com/the-carnivorous-nature-and-suffering-of-animals