The other day Shaze emailed me with a clip of Sherri Shepherd from The View. For those of you who haven’t heard of Shepherd, she is an actress\comedian who has starred in several sitcoms and recently landed a co-host position on The View. I watched the video Shaze sent me and sat in disbelief.
Shepherd claims that Jesus, and thus Christianity, basically predates the Greeks and everything else for that matter. I guess the whole concept of B.C. doesn’t quite make sense to her. So as I mulled the thought of posting the video I decided to do a little more digging in to Shepherd which quickly led to another choice video clip from The View.
In this other clip, Shepherd defies all logic by denying Evolution. Sure that’s pretty absurd, but this is The View and Shepherd takes it to the next level when asked by Whoppi Goldberg is the Earth is flat. Shepherd quickly replies that she isn’t sure! Seriously… WTF?!?!?! I wanted to pour bleach in my eyes and stick ice picks in my ears to make the pain stop!
This got me thinking… a scary thought I know ;) I was raised a Catholic and deal with Christians on a regular basis (including my family). One thing I have noticed is the lack of knowledge that many possess with respects to their religion. To many, Christianity (or any other religion for that matter) is an insurance policy that’ll get them in to heaven. It’s something that you belong to because most people around you do (at least in the United States.) I wonder how many Christians truly understand the teachings of Jesus. I’m willing to bet if you quizzed many Christians on the basics of their religion, they would fail miserably. What are your experiences with some of your Christian friends and family? Are they for real? Or are they just full of crap and hoping that it’s their ticket in to heaven just in case there is one?
Lot’s of questions I know, but hey would you rather work? Enjoy!
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Sherri Shepherd on Christianity Predating EVERYTHING
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Sherri Shepherd on Evolution and a Flat Earth
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For a long time I’ve supported the idea of testing individuals before they can get their basic human rights. Think Evolution is a lie? You can’t vote. Believe that our universe is 6000 years old? There goes your driver’s license. Think the World’s flat? You have to move to Antarctica.
Don’t you mean “Pour”?? :p
Ahh yes, if only we could create a system by which idiots are punished for avoidable stupidity. The world would be a much better place.
Yeah…I saw this on good old Fox News and…
Yeah…
On a somewhat related note, I watched Jesus Camp again last night. How many people in one of those megachurches do you think would agree that Christianity predated ancient Greek philosophy?
I’m simply… flabbergasted! This show passes as entertainment?!?
Ugh…I agree with sidfaiwu; who finds that entertaining? If I wanted to see morons talk over each other for an hour I’d…wait, I don’t want to see that, because that’s retarded.
gasmonso said:
“To many, Christianity (or any other religion for that matter) is an insurance policy that’ll get them in to heaven. It’s something that you belong to because most people around you do (at least in the United States.)”
In my experience, it is also something that allows people to feel more right, or superior, to others. I’ve met plenty of people for whom the sole purpose of their christianity is to serve as a platform for condescension. I’ve also met people whose christianity spurs them on to be loving, giving, considerate, excellent people. Unfortunately, the former category seems to be bigger than the latter. This fits in with my view that people (myself included) are generally dicks regardless of their view on or participation in religion. :-)
I like how people choose to to relate to religion like a friend. If you choose to remain with your faith because the overall good qualities out-weigh the bad is like you’re friends with an axe murderer, but you choose to remain friends because “Hey, he has some good points too–like he brings you flowers and is nice to old ladies”.
I also like how people feel that society would dissolve into anarchy if they weren’t guided by the 10 commandments and the awesome anger and power of a God or gods.
This goes back to my belief that most people (regardless of their religious/non-religious beliefs) are sheep. Most folks believe what they believe because someone they respect/admire believes the same thing and taught them that. Some religious people question their beliefs. Some non-religious people question their beliefs. Most people don’t. This also goes to show quite a bit about the state of our country’s education system. Most people (myself included on a number of things) are woefully uneducated when it comes to history, philosophy, political science, regular science, how to drive, how to use computers/vcrs/electronics in general, common decency, table manners, netiquette, what makes a good beer/wine/coffee good… I could go on. In short what is on display here has little or nothing to do with religion and much to do with human nature. All most people want know is whatever they have to know to get through the day. Everything else si optional.
well, just look at how many people here come with the pascal wager as an argument. or the old “well if we all evolved from monkeys, why do the monkeys still exist?”. most people on this planet really have a room temperature IQ…
First: Howdy all y’all…been lurking for a while and finally decided to introduce myself.
Second: I agree with Scott. One of the things I’ve noticed over several years in academics (veterinary medicine) is the students’ attitude toward learning. Rather than wanting to learn to think for themselves, they want to be spoonfed everything…and it’s getting worse. I’ve gotten a lot of bad reviews from students coming through my rotations because I actually made them think through diagnoses, prognoses, and treatment regimens rather than just tell them. When they complained, my response was always “in less than 12 months you’ll be the one making the diagnosis and determining treatments. Textbook cases are found only in textbooks. You must be able to analyze and adapt, not just regurgitate.” Some still hated me, but a fair number came back and thanked me for being a hardass.
In general, people don’t want to HAVE to think for themselves. And, if I remember right, there was actual a study that showed progressives (who tend to be liberals) were statistically more able to adapt to new situtations than were conservatives. In other words, progressives go with the flow, while conservatives prefer the status quo.
AggieCowboy,
One of the many reasons I quit the teaching profession was similar to your frustration. Students that hate you because you use Socratic methods and challenge them to think for themselves are also the students who will come back later with a gun and shoot you. The year I quit, a few students were caught planning a school shooting–that was enough for me. It is dangerous to have independent thought and to think freely (even in the U.S.) these days. Some of my most challenging,mean,and closed-minded students belonged to a huge local faith.
Currently–I’m reading Christopher Hitchens “God is not Great” and I feel I have to place it face down when I’m not reading it and hide it when I transport for fear of people and what they think. Oppression and forced assimiliation are alive and well, even if not overt.
Howdy Eagle Chick,
I fully understand your frustrations. My goal is to produce the best veterinarians possible, so they absolutely have to be able to think for themselves and not just regurgitate. My rotation was considered one of the hardest because I expected so much from my students (and, unfortunately, expecting a 20′s something-year-old to be an adult was asking a lot in some cases). However, I’m no longer in the clinics…and seriously considering getting out of academics altogether.
I’m in Oklahoma and completely fed up with the holier-than-thou crowd. While I wouldn’t hide a book, my partner and I do “hide” our relationship out in public (well, most of the time)…okay, so it doesn’t exactly take a genius to figure out that we’re a couple even if we don’t hold hands or kiss in public (and neither of us is even close to being the stereotypical “flamer”). LOL!
AggieCowboy, Scott & Eagle Chick,
I disagree. You’re all selfishly concerned with your own experiences, and aren’t focusing on the big picture. The kind of idiocy (or “Independant Thought”) you desribe needs to exist in a free society. I think back to days when I was in school, and all the assholes and idiots I had to endure. Can you imagine a system where a strict sense of respect for learning was enforced? The results would produce millions of minds devoid of any real free thought. Sure it would get rid of some of the religious nutjobs; but it would also weed out a lot of the artists, and leave students unable to deal with people in the real world.
The reason why public education works so well, (in countries other than the US at least) is because of the challenges it creates both socially AND academically.
Now don’t get me wrong, I would love to see a system that berated the religious. I would even go so far as to say I’d like to see most religious people beaten up by roving gangs of Athiests.
But that doesn’t change the fact that it may be your sole purpose in life to serve as an example to others. Even if that purpose is to be a brain-dead right wing retard with no understanding of life or the world around you.
On this fine Friday afternoon, might I share a song by NOFX with my friends?
You’re wrong about virtues of Christianity
And you’re wrong if you agree with Sean Hannity
If you think that pride is about nationality, you’re wrong
You’re wrong when you imprison people turning tricks
And you’re wrong about trickle down economics
If you think that punk rock doesn’t mix with politics, you’re wrong
You’re wrong for hating queers and eating steers
If you kill for the thrill of the hunt
You’re wrong ’bout wearing fur and not hating Ann Coulter
Cause she’s a cunted cunt
You’re wrong if you celebrate Columbus Day
And You’re wrong if you think there will be a Judgement Day
If you’re a charter member of the NRA, you’re wrong
You’re wrong if you support capital punishment
And you’re wrong if you don’t question your government
If you think her reproductive rights are inconsequent, you’re wrong
You’re wrong fighting Jihad, your blind faith in God
Your religions are all flawed,
You’re wrong about drug use, when its not abuse
I hope you never reproduce
You’re getting high on the downlow
A victim of Cointelpro
You’re wrong and will probably never know
In my experience, I don’t know many who are Christian as an insurance policy. In fact, I think most don’t think about heaven/hell much and when pressed assume they are going to heaven.
I think most Christians treat religion like a club. Put your time in, and you get to call yourself Christian. I think a lot of problems occur when religion becomes a club. It allows a lot of “us and them” type thinking which is not very constructive and can result in condescension.
We spent about a week (per religion) studying the five major religions of the world, and I gaurantee that I’ve learned more about each than the average member of those religions.
Don’t we just love are mom’s? Mom’s are great, we can call their belief crap and when we need help Mom’s there for us.
Guy’s please, i understand what gasmonso is saying, all i am saying is that mom’s are the best and for i praise God for her. I give praise to God for my Dad was there for… i love him!
“This got me thinking… a scary thought I know ;) I was raised a Catholic and deal with Christians on a regular basis (including my family).”
i too was like gasmonso, i have been where you have been… is it not time to come back and do are best to understand what are parents have taught us? should we stop learning because we don’t understand?
“I wonder how many Christians truly understand the teachings of Jesus”
msnbc.com… “my friends there is hope to those who seek after the truth with their hearts than their minds.
family took in Hawkins after her 17- and 19-year-old sons befriended him. “He didn’t cause a lot of trouble. He tried to help out all the time. He was very thankful for everything. He wasn’t a violent person at all.—
Who ever follows Dawkins beliefs will eventually have hope in the way Hawkins did. Hey, after all we are just animals.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vBC5L6cyq2Y&feature=related
pants off to Darkins… ahahaha, thanks snurp!
Ummm. yeah, thanks for that hyrocket – once again youve managed to write zero about the actual post AND yet still managed to quote responses…
Anyway
I have to say, it really astounds me (and sometimes gravely worries me) at just how religious/christian your country is. I mean, Im australian ive lived in europe and the US for sometime and it comes as a shock to meet so many americans not only deeply religious, but so loud and proud about it. you get that here too of course, but nowhere near as much, and far more people here would profess to be non-religious, whether thats agnostic or proud athiests. in other countries, my experience is that the out-and-proud religious people are losers with something wrong with them, but over in the US, people wear it like a badge of pride.
Back to the topic at hand…
Shaze,
I strongly disagree. You’re argument is not logical. I am not advocating enforcing a “strict sense of respect for learning.” Forcing someone to learn would only create resentment. However, I do advocate instilling a respect for learning and continual self-improvement. Most children are eager to learn new things and we need to keep feeding that excitment. Unfortunately, many cultural lifestyles discourage this. Growing up in New Mexico, I witnessed this first hand among the American Indians on the Navajo Reservation, among female members of Hispanic households, and among the far right religious community. It is also easier to simply teach students to regurgitate which does not encourage free thinking. Until we change societal mentalities and stop teaching our children to simply regurgitate, we will continue to be a society of ignorant, intolerant sheep.
With regards to education inhibiting artistic talents…that’s total bullshit. It’s our current education system actually discourages artistic talent because it is a form of free thought and free expression.
Nor am I being selfish. Teaching my students to think for themselves does not benefit me. I am helping my students, as well as all of their future clients and patients.
AggieCowboy:
First, thanks for replying to my post; I think we may have misunderstoond each other slightly.
Second, I don’t blame the concept of education for stifling creativity. That would be silly, I blame a system that is corrupted by Capitolism. In fact, I beleive socialist(public & free) schools and universities to be the only breeding ground for real character and intelect.
But you hit on a key point there; some people learn differently, or are unwilling to being taught. The system of teaching I know, and I’m sure the one you’re using, only really supports the model of parroting and regurgitating “fact”. And the grading system, well there’s something that’s been stifling motivation since the beggining of schools!
The materials used to teach people are almost always biased and ill-prepared. And the tests are constantly being dumbed down, to appear like they’re doing something right.
I feel really good when I can help people learn, but I feel even better when I see people learning on their own.
i apologize, gasmonso and jayman. i did “once again youve managed to write zero about the actual post”
what i should have said to gasmonso, since he has a wonderful mom and sister, that he would ask them a question for me(being catholic like i was once was)
My person view on this, is that the preist are misleading my brothers and sisters. we need to now the teachings for ourselves and not through a preist.
Why because the truth will set us free!
if they would accept Jesus Christ as Saviour and Lord of their heart and repent of their sins, where there at right now(no need to see a preist)and let the holy spirit into their hearts. I am not asking them to join another church or leave their church.
gasmonso, please pass this on to mom and your sister… i apologize if i offended your mom in anyway, gasmonso and jayman.
Jayman, i understand now, you drive on the wrong side of the road. Please Jayman, can i show you the truth?
God Bless you all!
please pass this on to your mom…
He is the only way. Jesus said “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me” (John 14:6).
It is not just enough that you know these truths. We must individually place our trust in Jesus Christ as our Lord and Savior. It is by repenting of our sins and believing on Christ that we can know God personally and experience His love.
“But as many as receive Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name” (John 1:12).
“For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them” (Ephesians 2:8-10).
“Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit” (Acts 2:38).
You can receive Jesus Christ right now by faith. “If you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart, one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made to salvation” (Romans 10:9-10).
“please pass this on to your mom…”
Now why do you have to pull moms into this?
Hyrocket, just stop preaching, your not converting anyone here. Plus when you just start rambling scripture from your bible you just sound lazy, i mean can’t you just paraphrase?
@hyrocket
As you like verses, you are sure to love these few snippets from ‘The Apocalypse of Adam’;
Mother as a woman is important just as Adam said to Seth. But a woman as the more spiritual being, is also quite a dreadful thought according to the bible. Why is that?
The worship of god is slavery and god seems to be sexual one also.
but what else one is to expect from such a being than abuse?
Enjoy as this has nothing to do with the subject matter so it should be more to your liking.
aggiecowboy, you’re an intellectual, homosexual academic in Oklahoma who is trying to make people think? You have my condolences. I am in Oklahoma and only half of those things, and my lot is tough enough.
The interesting thing about Sherri’s views aired on “The View” is that she is denying the Virgin Mary. She’s also intimating that Jesus was in the Garden of Eden and did nothing about that evil snake. Unfortunately, much as you folks in blue states might prefer not to believe it, she’s also not unusual.
Christians can’t be stereotyped–at least not accurately. Fundamentalists–of all types–can. They are concerned with getting into heaven. Mostly, they are interested in finding a loophole that lets them sin all they want and still get in. Yes, they love the club atmosphere of it. Yes, they dearly love being in the majority, and they love to win. They would much rather win a phyrric victory than lose the battle and win the war. And oh, my yes they love the way it makes them feel superior. In most cases, very little else does or can do that trick. Furthermore, they will make any false prophet that helps them with these false goals filthy rich, no matter how immoral he or she is.
As to my beliefs, I believe in Matthew Chapter Six, which says that those who pray in public aren’t praying to God, they’re just showing off. I also don’t see how any omnipotent God capable of creating such almost infinite variety could possibly be incapable of relating to very different beings on different terms.
If that lands me in hell, so be it. I’ll undoubtedly prefer the company there.
Indeed, I was raised a Catholic too and I can still recall occasions, alhough now very long ago, when we actually read the new testament as it was so rare. The version of Catholicism we got was whatever the teachers and priests fed us.
Fortunately, they were all fairly sane and tolerant and, though an atheist, I still have some respect for the RC church but one can see how much power over young minds we hand to authority figures in more extreme religions. They can peddle whichever version suits their purpose.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=KeZB2EsPqGE
Part 1 of 3 regarding Christianity from the popular movie Zeitgeist; watch it if you dare, religious people!
It actually provides a very honest and unbiased look at religions’ seedy history. The part I liked most was the comparison of jesus to the Sun, I dare you to watch this and not learn something.
I’d call Zeitgeist anything before I’d call it unbiased. There was a post dedicated to this part of the movie. You can read my original comment on it here.
The first part may have some merit, but the conspiracy theory laden second and third parts casts suspicion on its accuracy.
the first falls in the same place what you said Sid. I stand here as proof as to that, you are correct the second and third pasts on it’s accuracy.
Sid, “The first part may have some merit, but the conspiracy theory laden second and third parts casts suspicion on its accuracy.”
Irish,i apprecaite your response for me on
post 21- that’s all.
Jag and Shaze… mmmmm, i can almost taste it, prince of the air.
Hawkins said, “I know everyone will remember me as some sort of monster but please understand that I just don’t want to be a burden on the ones that I care for my entire life,” he wrote. “I just want to take a few pieces of (expletive) with me.” msnbc.com
Christ Jesus is my cornerstone!
Oh, you can, can you?
Jesus died for your sins.
Mother or not, stupidity just can’t be tolerated. This is for me a painful instance where relgion takes over so much of a persons life, that it becomes the answer to everything. In itself, thinking that Jesus was there before the ancient Greeks is harmless, but it does lay the foundation for religion-induced mind control.
Ignorance is a disease, but it has a vaccination: upbringing. Too bad some families are intellectually too poor (I blame religion once again, add some material poverty and surrounding) to afford this crazy vaccine named “critical thinking”
sid:
Agreed, the opinions on the similarities of Christianity and moderm religion to astrology was astounding though. I want to say something like “People without a good knowledge of history are more succeptable to being suckered in to current modern religions”, just to articulate my previous statement.
hyrocket:
“prince of the air” – What are you, Arabic or something? Why do people here have to decipher what you say, is it really a language problem? If you meant conceited, well then yes, I am. I am publically judging all religious people on this forum, even those pretending to be.
Shaze,
I stopped even reading hyrockets posts long ago, getting through the crap to the the useful content of them (when there even is any) is hardly worth the effort. I think the guy doesn’t even speak english and uses one of those translators to mangle what hes actually trying to say.
Also, I disagree with you completely on your capitalism vs socialism comment. Socialism is as much, if not more, about indoctrination as is capitalism. I would even say more, since a lot of what makes capitalism works is innovation and new ideas… about how to get rich off the backs of your fellow man. Don’t get me wrong, I am a die-hard capitalist, I believe people are mostly inherently stupid and thus should be exploited if they allow it. How else do you explain all the christians and muslims when just LOOKING at the damn books with half a brain and your eyes open shows that its a complete farce. If people want to be exploited so much, who am I to not give them their desire?
Personally, I don’t think there can exist a perfect system, but in my opinion the closest we have come is capitalism with a small (very small!) dose of socialism, but like all things the people in that system have to watch it like a hawk and make sure it continues to serve THEM, not the people in power. We in the USA have failed in that duty to ourselves long ago.
Michael:
I’m afraid I only view Socialism and Capitolism as concepts, not just ways to run a country. They are only ideas, and can be weighed equally against any situation or opinion. However, the Socialist movement that you’re seeing on the internet via Communities and Open Source, are producing real innovation and new ideas. While I see Capitolism as just exploiting and copywriting original ideas, Socialism attempts to share innovation with everyone.
I don’t wanna threadjack, but suffice it to say that America is highlighting all of my problems with Capitolism right now. There is only emphasis on wealth and debt, leaving the people to fight for themselves.
Real government should work for the people, and that will never happen under Capitolism; money will always come first.
Shaze, Please take some time to read and “absorb” what we state in our posts. Learn the definition of “Socratic” insruction style and then retort. I’m so far from a “right-wing” nutjob that your comment half-amuses me! BTW—Money will always come first no matter what system people pretend to affect.
Eagle Chick:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socratic_method#Lesson_plan_elements_for_teachers_in_classrooms
“A skillful teacher can teach students to think for themselves using this method. This is the only classic method of teaching that was designed to create genuinely autonomous thinkers. There are some crucial lesson plan elements to this form of teaching:”
One of which:
- If the teacher makes an error of logic or fact, it is acceptable for a student to correct the teacher.
What if the students know more than you? Do you take time every day to listen and learn everything you can from your students? My problem with most teachers is that they shut their brains to subjects other than what they’re teaching. In fact I don’t know many people that spend time each day learning new things, especially those with jobs.
Teaching to me has always implied a cycle of learning, rather than a linear forever-learning path. I think there is very little taught in classes that is not in a lesson plan, or in textbooks.
I say that the current modern institutions of learning are obsolete, and so are its teachers. I also say for certain that America’s education system produces the largest amount of stupid people in the known world.
In fact, I’m having a hard time seeing what you do as anything other than simply regurgitating historical propoganda and fear. To summerize, you can’t teach the socratic method; motivation has to come from within.
Shaze, I think you are an idealistic person, and while that is a wonderful thing, it’s often just not compatible with reality. It would be a great thing if people could be taught to think for themselves, but unfortunately some people are just not able to for various reasons. First, and foremost, often before they get a chance to develop that skill they are indoctrinated into some sort of nonsense belief system like christianity, islam or judaism that absolutely will not tolerate people who think for themselves. They think from the pulpit (or the islam/jewish equivilent) only. People are often taught from the moment they start comprehending human speech that they should look to their bible or their preacher, priest, imam, whatever for the answers. Since this happens during the most formative time, they are stunted. They are unable to think for themselves.
unfortunatly, Micheal is right.
But I would still say that the ability to learn critical thinking is at least present in everyone at one point. It’s the parent’s fault for not utilising the potential, but instead indoctrinating the chld.
Shaze,
I was very open and accepting of my students ideas–no matter how ignorant I may have personally thought they were. I had one student who insisted that dogs were not derived from wolves?! I let it go, because part of the scientific process is weighing ALL the evidence and if she did thorough research and genuinely thought that the facts indicated that dogs and wolves were not related. So be it (sad and tragic–but so be it). If a student knew more than me or brought up an interesting thought, I would have humbly replied “I don’t know–good question”. Admitting that you don’t know everything is honest and part of the pursuit of science and knowledge. Many religious students and people in general assert that they know everything and are unwilling to receive new information or even attempt to comprehend change!
“I say that the current modern institutions of learning are obsolete, and so are its teachers. I also say for certain that America’s education system produces the largest amount of stupid people in the known world.”
I agree with you on that point Shaze and that is why I left the system. It is next to impossible for an individual to change something that is so backwards from the government level down to each individual state!
Michael:
I’m going to ignore the insult about my ideals and their relevance to reality. But I really think you’re missing my point. People can’t be “TAUGHT” to think for themselves, its something that they have to want.
In the same way you can’t show people the error of their ways, they have to learn for themselves. And who knows what that means? It could take a lifetime of monotony to break some people of habitual stupidy. Maybe some people like living in their own misguided worlds?
I just don’t think any organized school of thought helps to create independant thinking or learning. I’d even go so far as to say that I don’t see much difference in the teaching methods between religious and normal subjects.
Not just to procrastinate, but a good system of education would freely offer information in a variety of ways. Kind of like the internet.
“People can’t be “TAUGHT†to think for themselves, its something that they have to want.”
i dont know if i agree with this.
there is a difference between being taught and straight out rote learning. being taught a method or approach to learning can give the ‘student’ a new way of considering problems, issues and solutions – some of which they may then discover themselves in the process. sometimes a good teacher is more of a GUIDE.
compare this with islamic schools rote learning of the koran :p
“I also say for certain that America’s education system produces the largest amount of stupid people in the known world”
unfortunately, i agree (and im not saying all americans are stupid, but i am astounded at just how insular and unaware MANY americans are, especially given that its the richest country in the world. i seem to recall some vast percentage of US citizens couldnt even point to Iraq or Afghanistan on a map of the world, despite billions of your money being poured into wars there.
If we’re going to ban stupid people from talking,who are we going to laught at?!:D
Shaze: I’m going to pretend to ignore that you find something so ridiculous as an insult, while I laugh hysterically about it. I mean, really. You really found that to be an insult? What are you, some wierd PC whine at everything someone says weenie? Now, that is an insult. And if you were really insulted by the previous comment, then well deserved. And, if so, grow a pair and be a man. Or woman. Whatever.
Anyway, onto your point. Not really much to say, except I disagree with just about every single aspect of your post. And, my guess is so does most everyone else in the world. Granted, that does not necessarily mean you are wrong. After all, I disbelieve in the existence of god, and most of the people in the world disagree with me. I just think your point is a little more based in the real word and much more easily disproved.
Take a child, fresh out of the womb, and dumped on the closest deserted isle. If it were to some how be able to survive to adulthood, how deeply do you think it would be able to think? It wouldn’t have language, communication skills, it would be an animal. We learn the skills to do these things, and yes, THINK, or to NOT THINK, from others. We are taught it. Not so much in school, but before that. When we are 1 year old. Or two years old. THIS is when we are taught to think. Either for ourselves or via church pulpit. Of COURSE there is required a desire to do it, otherwise they wont. But, a teacher CAN teach a person to think for themselves, and can give them the tools to do it where they wouldn’t have it otherwise, if they only had contact with their little church group.
In other words, I completely and utterly disagree with your point, in its entirety. Teachers CAN make a difference. Unfortunately, they are bound by the fledgeling church state that America is becoming. They are also bound by the government in public schools who ALSO don’t want people thinking for themselves. They want them to be dependant on the goverment for everything, so they can be easily controlled. And their plan is working very well.
No one has mentioned home schooling. education can be done in a varity of ways like you guys mention. I know of a christian family who does this type of education in the home.
In this type of education system you get ALL(organized, free-thinking, independent, exploration) what you mentioning here , but you guys left out the most important part of this learning,
in Proverbs 2:6 For the LORD giveth wisdom: out of his mouth cometh knowledge and understanding.
True Understanding-True Knowledge, my friend…
can i show you how to get this?
Proverbs 1:7 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge
So, i feel that home school is one answer to this freely open learning system you are talking about.
at the cross, our sins are forgiven(repent) if you accept this offer of salvation for eternal life in our Lord and Saviour Chris Jesus.
“but a good system of education would freely offer information in a variety of ways.”
hyrocket, if the parents are logical and open-minded home-schooling can be great(I’ll keep it as an option when i have kids). The problem is a lot of parents who home-school are complete idiots and just want to indoctrinate their kids without the distractions of “science” or “logic”.
Indoctrination can come(to me) in any type of learning you would introduce a person. this would all depend on the individuals involved, you must have some sort of structure in what is to be taught, free thinking or not.
you guys want a good system of education would freely offer information in a variety of ways.
this information has to come from someone who is indoctrinated in some form of their belief system in which they where taught, which my friends leads me back to God. this is ingrained in our dna as Sid mentions somewhere here.
But it’s a hell of a lot easier to indoctrinate children into believing whatever insane ideas you want if you don’t have an outside force(like an educational system) contradicting everything.
“which my friends leads me back to God. this is ingrained in our dna as Sid mentions somewhere here.”
Are you saying that religion is in our genes? If thats true then i guess im the next step in evolution.
Oh that the salvation of Israel [were come] out of Zion! When God bringeth back the captivity of his people, Jacob shall rejoice, [and] Israel shall be glad.
FREE THE CHILDREN OF PALESTINE, FROM THE BONDAGE OF HEZBOLLAH AND LET THEM REJOICE IN ZION…
http://www.memritv.org/clip/en/1625.htm
thanks Mr. Anderson, for once again proving religious freaks have the ability to piece together words and phrases, but not necessarily into anything that makes sense.
they’re like walking, talking Markov generators.
I’m inclined to think of good teachers as the owner’s manual for the brain. I have had the good fortune to have parents and teachers who did more than try to shove facts and junk into me, and those who didn’t. The good ones taught me how to find knowledge I didn’t have on hand, even when they did and could have just spoon fed me. It was irritating at the time, but so is teething. Nonetheless, teething is worth the irritation, isn’t it? So much better than a liquid diet. Likewise, the ability to seek out knowledge and reason out conclusions are mental muscles I now can’t imagine living without.
Can’t be taught? Puh-lease, Shaze.
The interesting thing to me is that so many religious zealots are afraid of people who are capable of these things. Sorry, but if your sect can’t stand the light of reason, it deserves no loyalty. With all due respect to the athiests, I do believe that reason and belief in an intelligent designer aren’t incompatible. The more we learn about all of creation, the more awe it inspires. So, where is the advantage to God in these religious hucksters keeping people ignorant? The advantage seems to be theirs, not God’s.