Yesterday I read an interesting story here about an Iranian exile that goes by the pseudonym of Sooreh Hera. Hera is a photographer in the Netherlands who’s on a dangerous mission to expose the “hypocritical” attitude towards homosexuality in countries such as Iran, where men can be hanged for homosexual conduct.
There were probably a few different ways in which Hera could have approached the subject. She could take a subtler politically correct route or she could skip the foreplay and get right down to business. Hera chose the latter.
Being a photographer, and having balls of steel apparently, Hera decided to go for broke. She photographed gay Iranian exiles wearing masks of the Prophet Muhammed and his cousin Ali. She also created a video featuring hard rock, Iranian clerics, and gay men. Then to top things off she made it an exhibit at a local museum!
As expected, the local Muslim extremists were none too pleased. Hera has received several threats and recently went into hiding. Furthermore Hera’s exhibit, which was initially praised by the museum’s director, has been forced to remove the photographs because “certain people in our society might perceive it as offensiveâ€. Hera’s response was to pull her entire exhibit in protest.
Below you’ll find a few photos from the exhibit along with the video. Be warned, as the video is a little racy.
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- Creation Fairy Tale Museum To Open In Kentucky
- Thank Allah I’m A Jihad Boy
- Evolution Schmevolution!
- Muslims Desecrate Sacred Tree For Allah


March 11th, 2010 at 1:02 pm
da wa boom boom wa wa wa.
allah et la grand fiction. wallah wallah
da wa boom boom na na na.
March 11th, 2010 at 11:36 am
da3wa bikoum ne lah .
allah et grand .
da3wa bikoum ne lah.
March 11th, 2010 at 10:25 am
Kaka, what’s an “im pround”? Is that a religious sect?
March 10th, 2010 at 4:08 am
i am a muslim and im pround of that
to this women who thought of doing this work of the devil.
shame on you
you will answer for this to no one but god
jew, muslim,christian, hindu, whatever we are all from adam and eve
allah hu akbar
February 21st, 2010 at 8:19 pm
I fucked allah hard up the ass and he loved it.
February 21st, 2010 at 2:11 am
Allah just told me you are all a bunch of fags if you dont suck each other off and let your wives and daughters fuck everyone they want. If you dont allow - ALLAH WILL FUCKING KILL YOU!
February 18th, 2010 at 8:28 am
Ahmed, the broken argument in your “small thing” post is known as Pascal’s Wager. Your “thing” is not just “small”; it’s infinitesimally small. Read here:
http://rationalwiki.com/wiki/Pascal%27s_Wager
-one more step away from your nasty religion for you.
February 18th, 2010 at 4:55 am
I will just say a small thing for the one who did this video,after your death you will see what will happen to you,you will burn in hell and no one will be with you to help you no mother no father no sister……
and no mercy.You won’t say to God plz plz iam sorry!!!!
It will be too late,and you can do anything in your life but you will see what will happen to you in your end!
February 10th, 2010 at 8:13 pm
i cant understand anything. i suk.
February 10th, 2010 at 11:06 am
I didn’t understand any of that.
Lrn2speak
February 9th, 2010 at 10:53 am
yah belief in fairy tale after life u go. proof yours is more tru that thousands of othr tales.
February 8th, 2010 at 10:17 pm
Well, I suppose I just won $50 from netyahoo.
Yes, bendit, I can see you live a very happy life. Perhaps you should be concerned about what happens after life ends? Yes, that would benefit you.
February 8th, 2010 at 8:42 pm
ur god must be a weak pansy cuz I still have a happy life. no thx for the nasty words. did ur religion teach u that??
allahwawa waka waka taka kuka fuk u.
February 8th, 2010 at 6:58 am
may god punish you in hell and in your life may you recieve a terrible punishment in your life
Allahu akbar!
February 6th, 2010 at 6:33 am
Thanks for your blog, it is so good, I really like it! Its exactly what I was looking for when i searched for Zoo World Cheats - I?ll be a regular visitor from now on!
February 3rd, 2010 at 8:45 pm
ur spelling is gud unknown. smart ur 2. go back eat sum more shit
February 2nd, 2010 at 7:49 am
fuck u la bastard ur mother go fck dog ur father eat shit and ur sisiter go prostatitue u gonna end in held k’nn
January 21st, 2010 at 11:15 am
Right. $50 to the first person to find this divine jesus and prove it. No one has yet.
January 20th, 2010 at 10:44 pm
You all need to find Jesus get saved and start your life anew. The Lord Jesus Christ can open doors for you and save you from your destructive islamic ways. He loves and cares for ALL his children :)
December 6th, 2009 at 1:44 pm
I saw your web site on bebo. astounding stuff!
December 4th, 2009 at 10:05 pm
Thank you for your insight. The article was worth every minute reading it (and the upcoming re-reads). Brilliant post.
December 4th, 2009 at 5:14 pm
Great post?..worth reading it and sharing on facebook?
November 30th, 2009 at 10:41 am
oi get a life u fukin cunt wher u frm im gna fuk u up ul b sucking my dick u bitch
November 3rd, 2009 at 4:30 pm
Great information and great site, I have added this to my favorites, do you have an rss feed I can subscribe too?
November 1st, 2009 at 7:24 pm
The illogical anger over supposed likeness of Muhammad never ceases to amaze me. Muslims claim to know when a picture represents Muhammad but how do they do it?
As making images of Muhammad have been forbidden from the beginning, how one can say which image represents him and which represents Abdul?
Would it not then be a case that any one claiming to be able to identify Muhammad from an image is breaking their own rules?
November 1st, 2009 at 8:41 am
Re 262 of course the pictures are very familiar to you. Easy to understand why that is.
But save the threats. One thing, you are exhibiting the true character of your religion in making them, and a second thing, there are too many of us. As the saying goes, you can put out a candle but you can’t put out a fire this big.
October 31st, 2009 at 11:48 pm
you mother fucker who’s pics r u using
because thy look familiar i swear if its who i think it is n i ever see u bitches around i will fucking kill you .
October 16th, 2009 at 4:44 am
The best information I have read about this is right here. Keep going Thank you
September 21st, 2009 at 8:39 am
I Love Pasta… My Life is ravioli, My soul is meatballs… There, fixed that for you lontelanang.
Our religion is better because you can eat it and talk like a pirate too, matey’s. Come here http://venganza.org and learn about why the Flying Spagetti Monster runs noodles around other religions.
Yarrrrrr!
http://venganza.org
September 20th, 2009 at 9:15 am
I Love Allah… My Life, My soul is Mind…
September 16th, 2009 at 7:07 pm
Umm, Purple Jesus Christ there or whoever you are, no, that argument you just tried to make “before its too late” for islam fails big whales. Its another form of Pascal’s Wager, a well known group of logical fallacies.
care to try again?
September 16th, 2009 at 3:26 pm
Oh my people “Why are you so lazy to open the QURAN, are you SCARE to see the TRUTH”.
Laugh laugh laugh about Islam but one day you will Cry cry cry and ask for forgiveness in your dark tomb. The punishment will be so so HARD but it would be too late for you. Nobody will be here to help you. “I will NOT HELP U” So continue to enjoy your life.
You think Paradise is so easy to enter!!! Continue to enjoy your life. “This world is a Paradise for the non Muslim”. You are only a traveler on the earth “Life is only a journey”. You will died!!! You will burn in hell!!
It’s still time to think but don’t think too late.
September 14th, 2009 at 7:45 am
Boris #1, & considering Boris #2’s post too, motorbikes obviously paralyze more people than islam does.
So, the conclusion’s gotta be that motorbikes must be far greater than islam.
All hail our new gods Honda, Harley Davidson, Kawasaki…
Vroooom Vrooom
September 13th, 2009 at 11:17 am
I’m totally agree with the post 243 why are you so lazy to open the Quran, are you afraid to face the truth.
I’m a Jack a christian from Harvard University but after study the Holy Quran related what happening to the world nowadays, I think we need to see the truth now. Islam is Great but we don’t accept it.
D. when u say “just scared I’m gonna start killing non-Muslims for no reason”.
Islam never teach us to do such things. Some person they make wrong interpretation about Islam. Study the life of the prophet Muhammad (PBUH) u will see He always respect the non Muslim. He only fight for His religion for good cause.
I’m a converter of Islam because i make effort to see the truth.
Please guys don’t make effort to see the truth after your death because the punishment is very severe.
September 13th, 2009 at 10:52 am
Hi I’m jack,
I read most of your comments and laughing a lots. I would like to address all of u guys is just after your death when u will be alone in the dark u will know who is right or not.
God is showing us lots of His miracles but we still don’t believe it because we are afraid and we don’t want to be humiliate of the others communities. I’m a Christian Researcher from Harvard University and i believe that Islam is Great the only God of this world is Allah.
Why do you think guys Michael Jackson has been converted to Islam after reading the Shahada after his death. Do you know Michael Jackson has been perform the Hajj in Arabia together with Cat Steven. Ohh u don’t know because the press will not publish it they don’t want to humiliate themselves that the King of the Pop has seen the truth.
Guys is still time to think about it… but don’t regret it after your death, don’t ask for another chance to spend on earth because the punishment is very severe.
Good luck after your death…
September 13th, 2009 at 10:14 am
I would like to address to the second Boris.
No I’m not wrong believe me. What i seen with my eyes is unbelievable. OK just explain me Mr. Boris, my best friend same age with me 23, my housemate as soon as he made a stupidities mockery about the book of the Muslim, on the spot he felled down onto the ground his body was like paralyze, his eyes was moving very fast. I was very scarred at that time and i was trying to bring him to the nearest hospital. His last word to me: ”Islam is Great”. Forgive me…
How come this guy who really hate Islam suddenly said that Islam is great…
September 11th, 2009 at 4:30 am
y u r doing this thing?
September 10th, 2009 at 7:33 pm
ha. maybe those people got paralyzed from laughing so hard at the islam caricatures.
September 10th, 2009 at 7:18 pm
Hi I’m Boris too!!!
I would like to address to the Boris one who made that post. Lots of people laugh at islams sharial law and aren’t paralised. And even lots people get paralised not from islam. Like from motorbikes. I think your wrong.
September 10th, 2009 at 3:46 pm
Hi I’m Boris,
I would like to address to the one who made this video. Please, don’t play with the values of Islam, You can be paralyzed until the end of your day.
I’m not Muslim but i seen with my eyes during my studied in France how my best friend Ludovic making lots of stupidities mockery about Islam. Now his pass away at the age of 25, paralyzed until death.
His last word after death was ” Islam is Great”. Forgive me…
August 20th, 2009 at 4:28 am
hi this is ash just respect allah this staff will never ever come till the end of this world and their won be time to ask for forgiveness to god so just try not to do the things which r not or agaists islam
August 10th, 2009 at 2:26 pm
SUBHANALLA MAJESTY IS HE WHO YOU ASCRIBE PARTNER TO HEAR ME QUOTING THE VERSES OF ALLAH (IS’T ALLAH OR IS PROPHET OR VERSES AND SIGN YOU MAKE MORKRY OF DONT HESITATE YOU HAVE DISBELIEVE AFTER YOUR FAITH HAVE DISBELIEVE AFTER YOUR FAITH
SEE YOU, YOU HAVE NOT DONE ANY THIHG COMPARED TO WHAT YOUR FATHERS HAVE DONE THE TRUTH IS NOT HIDDEN BUT IS HARD TO TAKE IT WAS STATED IN THE BOOK OF GOD BIBLE DEUTRONOMY CHAPTER 18 VERSE 18 (AND I WILL RAISE FROM YOUR BREATHINGS A PROPHET LIKE UNTO YOU HE SHALL SPEAK IN MY WORDS AND WHO SO EVER DISBLIEVE IN HIM SHALL BE TOMENTED GOD IS SPEAKING TO MOSES IN THE OLD TESTIMENT TALKING ABOUT A PROPHET FROM HIS BROTHERS WHO WILL LOOK LIKE HIM.
WE ARE GOING TO USE THE THREE WORLD BEST MEHTODS OF COMPAERING AND CONTRASSIN .BIRTH,DEATH AND MARITAL STATUS.
1.BIRTH:-JESUS IS SAID TO BE GIVING BIRTH TO MIRACLEOUSLY BY BOTH SCRIPTURES MOSES AND MUHAMMAD ARE BOTH GIVING BIRTH TO NORMALY,USUALY METHOD OF GIVING BIRTH SO MUHAMMAD LOOKS LIKE MOSES IN BIRTH NOT JESUS
2.DEATH:-BOTH MUHAMMAD AND MOSES DIED NATURAL DEATH AND WERE BURIED UNDRE THE SOIL WHILE JESUS IS SAID TO BE LIFTED UP ACCORDING TO THE QURAN.AND CRUSIFIED BY THE CHRISTAIN BIBLE SEE AHMAD DEEDAT 101 CONTRADICTIN OF THE BIBLE 4 CRUSIFICATION ISSUE.MUHAMMAD IS LIKE MOSES IN DEATH NOT JESUS.
3.MARITAL STATUS:-JESUS WAS A BARCHELOR ALL HIS LIFE WHILE MUHAMMAD AND MOSES WERE BOTH MARRIED
BE YOU A MUSLIM OR A CHRISTAIN WE ALL CHILDREN OF ADAM SO FEEL FREE TO SEND QUESTION CONTRIBUTION TO OUR EMAIL @
daruliman2000@yahoo.com or sulonefilljannah@yahoo.co.uk or memoryslot@rocketmail.com
August 8th, 2009 at 1:00 pm
Your posts are nice, I just added your feed to my news reader. Look forward to read more interesting stuff from you (if not it’s not that difficult to unsubscribe :) ).
August 8th, 2009 at 12:06 am
LAAT ALLAH JULLIE MAAR STRAFFEN.
ALLAH SIZI LANETLESIN< ALLAHI LANETI USTUNUZE OLSUN,BUNLARI YAPANLARA<
July 29th, 2009 at 6:53 pm
This is actually some Very nice information. Thanks for this.
July 28th, 2009 at 10:56 am
“This is sad for you people to expose a religion like this”
Thank you for realizing that Islam has been exposed as
chaotic-junk.
“…every religion that came to earth is important to us muslims…”
Yeah…sure.
“if you guys had searched and learned more about Islam, you would know…”
What makes you think we haven’t searched and learned more about Islam?
“well why are you so lazy to open the Qur’an and read it? are you scared your going to face the truth?”
Well, read it a couple times, just scared i’m gonna start killing non-muslims for no reason, and thinking that Jews have turned into apes. *hint* *hint*
July 28th, 2009 at 4:58 am
I like your blog where i can find rss
July 28th, 2009 at 12:28 am
This is sad for you people to expose a religion like this, every religion that came to earth is important to us muslims, if you guys had searched and learned more about Islam, you would know however instead of doing so, you all just rather go along with what you hear about Islam, and those that think their very smart and NOT illeterate, well why are you so lazy to open the Qur’an and read it? are you scared your going to face the truth?
just to let you know we believe in All PROPHETS MOSES, JESUS, MOHAMMED, etc.
July 10th, 2009 at 10:23 pm
Great informations.Thanks for sharing…I keep reading.
July 5th, 2009 at 8:25 pm
Muro, thank you for your contribution to the D. bank of violent, idiotic Islam quotes. So, I say, is this really your peace and love?
—
What muslims say about their religion-
“islam is the religion of peace and love and not this stuff”
—
-But, here is what they say most of the time
“i tel you if you come for my i split your fucking neck
you now i late it eat to the other mother fucker en than i shoot the third person.
but first i hurt you al mother fuckers conjo’s all of your MOTHER FUCKERS!!!”
“I would srsly cut ur balls off and feed them to ur mom for what u’ve done, do u know how Much this will get u in trouble?…I would hang u from ur balls”
“Fuck all your momas youll burn in hell bitch,think about when your dead bitch ass gays,”
-_-
July 5th, 2009 at 4:04 pm
And a other thing FUCK YOU TO BRAIN D
July 5th, 2009 at 4:02 pm
who is the mother fucker that invented this bulshit
what the fuck is yours problem.
i tel you if you come for my i split your fucking neck
you now i late it eat to the other mother fucker en than i shoot the third person.
but first i hurt you al mother fuckers conjo’s all of your MOTHER FUCKERS!!!
July 5th, 2009 at 3:45 pm
Keep up the good work. Very informative post.
June 28th, 2009 at 11:47 pm
“islam is the religion of peace and love and not this stuff”
—
“I would srsly cut ur balls off and feed them to ur mom for what u’ve done, do u know how Much this will get u in trouble?…I would hang u from ur balls”
“Fuck all your momas youll burn in hell bitch,think about when your dead bitch ass gays,”
-_-
Why are you people so obsessed with our mothers?
June 28th, 2009 at 8:42 pm
Fuck all your momas youll burn in hell bitch,think about when your dead bitch ass gays,
June 9th, 2009 at 11:26 pm
“islam is the religion of peace and love and not this stuff”
“I would srsly cut ur balls off and feed them to ur mom for what u’ve done, do u know how Much this will get u in trouble?…I would hang u from ur balls”
-_-
If this is your love, we sure don’t want to see your hate.
June 9th, 2009 at 10:20 pm
“waaaa-waaaaaaaa, you are making fun of my religion…”
You made the choice to believe in fairy tales. Deal with the ramifications.
June 9th, 2009 at 4:44 pm
I would srsly cut ur balls off and feed them to ur mom for what u’ve done, do u know how Much this will get u in trouble? if it’s Not us, it’s when u meet ur Maker (allah aza w jal) then u’de b sorry and cry ur eyes out for what u’ve done, these ppl died for us to b happy and to accept others and respect some1 and go to some1 when everything goes wrong, these ppl had the hardest time just to put a smile on our faces and make us see that God is Real and he is watching u and he can do what u can never imagin and besides all these pervet stuff doesnt come from us, they come from u assholes that dont belive in God and if ur asshole dont like what u say, Dude u r MOREEEEEEEEEE then welcome to come to Lebanon and say it in my face :D I would hang u from ur balls
June 7th, 2009 at 10:18 am
u bitches making fun of islam its u people who are like that cause i always see u people doing this not islam , islam is the religion of peace and love and not this stuff
June 5th, 2009 at 4:10 pm
FUCK OFF WITH YOUR ANNOYING POSTS AND GO AWAY FOR GOOD. PISS OFF, ASSHOLE.
Religion is for the ignorant, the gullible, and the stupid, and for those who would profit from them.
June 5th, 2009 at 2:01 pm
Korgan, first let me thank you for you know my name. When you use such name -remember me ,as i mentioned before when you drink a glass or in your case a bottled water that you take to refresh yourself because of your thirst that’s within you- i know off everlasting water Korgan- don’t fight it drink because you are thristy- drink Korgan and remember my name as well-”fuck off” and “asshole” for you know me KORGAN!!! say my name again KORGAN not here but as you speak - speak of such thinking KORGAN- REMEMBER KORGAN!!!
For you know and wish not to NO! me! for you KORGAN NO-KNOW me - you and me Korgan! for “i am” and “you know”
by the way you’re off the topic- hahaha!
June 4th, 2009 at 10:54 pm
I’ve been reading for a few months now and just wanted to say I am enjoying your content. Very interesting information and please keep it coming! Definitely will add to my Google reader! Thanks.
June 4th, 2009 at 3:07 pm
Hyrocket, FUCK OFF WITH YOUR ANNOYING POSTS AND GO AWAY FOR GOOD. PISS OFF, ASSHOLE.
June 4th, 2009 at 1:09 pm
Hey Korgan, pascal’s wnker to your post 223. his post stands therefore you miss the mark. just admit the fact Korgan.
June 4th, 2009 at 3:57 am
Stumbled upon your blog and read a few of your postings.. Nice blog. Keep up the good work. Looking forward to reading more from you in the future.
June 3rd, 2009 at 10:38 am
Well, that’s a warming post.
A fine welcome to this site to you too, FuckUhaterZ. You’ll possibly learn a lot here, including the fact that the supporters of this site don’t have a religion and don’t support religion, so your statement in that regard is rather out of place, don’t you think?
You’ll hopefully also learn that religion is ridiculous.
June 2nd, 2009 at 12:16 pm
idiots..who the hell do you ppl think you are spreading shit like that about islam u twats. :@ >:(
get your facts right and then write whateva u want, just dont go trash our beautiful religion bcause yours is FUCKED. and the person who made this stupid page can go FUCK her/himself.
if you love gay people so much then why dont you become one instead of shooting your mouth off about islam you prick. :@
AND REMEMBER TO GET A LIFE WHILE YOUR AT IT >.<
May 31st, 2009 at 11:17 pm
I’ve been reading for a few months now and just wanted to say I am enjoying your content. Very interesting information and please keep it coming! Definitely will add to my Google reader! Thanks.
May 31st, 2009 at 7:22 am
Just posting to thanks! You have some great content on this blog.
May 30th, 2009 at 10:41 pm
R:E “Interesting admission considering his credentials as a slobber slinger christian. Thanks for the chuckle on that one!”
I’m sorry for using that, as it is a Christian “inside joke”. It’s used to portray certian types of preachers and It’s commonly used among the Baptist pastors. It is really funny though. Just ignore it if you want.
Anyway, i’m back. It was exam time, so i cut off the computer and TV, considering the amount of time I waste. It always seems to work.
May 20th, 2009 at 10:22 pm
Dude, how can we subscribe to your blog?
May 20th, 2009 at 3:13 pm
Hmm..well maintained blog here :)
May 20th, 2009 at 12:29 am
Ugg. Post 213 is merely more dishonest Allycrap spew. The bible itself presents a rather different picture than the one that Ally chooses to believe. The real picture of Christianity is a horrid, murderous, racist, and sexist one.
In response to the latest Allycrap, here are just a few of the many guidances to murder and violence, and other horrors promoted by the Christian book of horrors also known as the bible:
# Jesus says that he has come to destroy families by making family members hate each other. He has “come not to send peace, but a sword.”
# Jesus condemns entire cities to dreadful deaths and to the eternal torment of hell because they didn’t care for his preaching.
# Jesus will send his angels to gather up “all that offend” and they “shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.”
# Jesus is criticized by the Pharisees for not washing his hands before eating. He defends himself by attacking them for not killing disobedient children according to the commandment: “He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death.” (See Ex.21:15, Lev.20:9, Dt.21:18-21) So, does Jesus think that children who curse their parents should be killed? It sure sounds like it.
# Jesus advises his followers to mutilate themselves by cutting off their hands and plucking out their eyes. He says it’s better to be “maimed” than to suffer “everlasting fire.”
# “And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors.”
# In the parable of the marriage feast, the king sends his servants to gather everyone they can find, both bad and good, to come to the wedding feast. One guest didn’t have on his wedding garment, so the king tied him up and “cast him into the outer darkness” where “there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”
# Jesus had no problem with the idea of drowning everyone on earth in the flood. It’ll be just like that when he returns. 24:37
# God will come when people least expect him and then he’ll “cut them asunder.” And “there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”
# The servant who kept and returned his master’s talent was cast into the “outer darkness” where there will be “weeping and gnashing of teeth.”
# Jesus tells us what he has planned for those that he dislikes. They will be cast into an “everlasting fire.”
# Jesus says the damned will be tormented forever.
Mark
# Jesus explains why he speaks in parables: to confuse people so they will go to hell. 4:11-12
# Jesus sends devils into 2000 pigs, causing them to jump off a cliff and be drowned in the sea. When the people hear about it, they beg Jesus to leave. 5:12-13
# Any city that doesn’t “receive” the followers of Jesus will be destroyed in a manner even more savage than that of Sodom and Gomorrah. 6:11
# Jesus criticizes the Jews for not killing their disobedient children as required by Old Testament law. (See Ex.21:15, Lev.20:9, Dt.21:18-21) 7:9-10
# If you’re ashamed of Jesus, he’ll be ashamed of you. (And you’ll go straight to hell.) 8:38
# Jesus tells us to cut off our hands and feet, and pluck out our eyes to avoid going to hell. 9:43-49
# Jesus says that those that believe and are baptized will be saved, while those who don’t will be damned. 16:16
Luke
# God strikes Zacharias dumb for doubting the angel Gabriel’s words. 1:20
# Those who fail to bear “good fruit” will be “hewn down, and cast into the fire.” 3:9
# John the Baptist says that Christ will burn the damned “with fire unquenchable.” 3:17
# Jesus heals a naked man who was possessed by many devils by sending the devils into a herd of pigs, causing them to run off a cliff and drown in the sea. This messy, cruel, and expensive (for the owners of the pigs) treatment did not favorably impress the local residents, and Jesus was asked to leave. 8:27-37
# Jesus says that entire cities will be violently destroyed and the inhabitants “thrust down to hell” for not “receiving” his disciples. 10:10-15
# Jesus says that we should fear God since he has the power to kill us and then torture us forever in hell. 12:5
# Jesus says that God is like a slave-owner who beats his slaves “with many stripes.” 12:46-47
And that’s just to get started.
Religion is for the stupid, the ignorant, and the gullible, and for those who would profit from them.
May 20th, 2009 at 12:27 am
Ally, time for you to do some thinking instead of your usual lengthy spewing:
Your “god” of your Christian myths is purportedly all-powerful and benevolent. Yet you also claim that a devil known as “Satan” exists as the source of evil. So, to point out yet one more of the absurdities of the idiotic myths of your particular sect of Christianity, it is utterly absurd that an omnipotent creature, such as your god-myth is claimed to be, cannot simply do away with this Satan without humans having to presently suffer for it (such as in your Adam and Eve fiction).
Your god is obviously a man-made myth, nothing more. Get used to it, get past your silly Christian sky fairy tale, and stop your lengthy nonsense spewing. Your persistent posts laden with basic fallacies also get really tiresome.
Religion is ridiculous.
May 20th, 2009 at 12:25 am
Regarding post 202, how can “Christian murderer” be an “oxymoron” when the bible so frequently promotes murder, and the Christian god-myth is itself so murderous?
You are also repeatedly spouting the No True Scotsman fallacy.
Religion is for the ignorant, the gullible, and the stupid, and for those who would profit from them
May 19th, 2009 at 9:55 pm
Re: post 213
jagannath Said:-
“My answer is, yes, they should let sinners sin as long as their sins do not harm anyone and do not go against the secular laws of the society.”
Oh friend please do not put words in my mouth. God’s word does not work like that. While we are not to FORCE others to believe in God or the bible we are to admonish them to do what is right. The bible teaches that we are our brother’s keeper; if we do not warn others God WILL hold us responsible, see Ezequiel 33 :2-9 [Hey that's why atheists are always complaining about RELIGIOUS people getting in their faces; i admit that the method used by a lot of religious folk has a lot to be desired. Also, if religious people would follow their own teaching and not be hypocritical then people would actually desire to join their religion]
……………………………………
jag said:- “no true believer can do anything wrong.”
Jag, my friend i don’t know what exposure you had to Christian teaching but the bible doesn’t teach that. The bible teaches that ALL humans are sinners see Romans 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
Romans 3:10; Isaiah 41:26
When a person becomes a believer the bible says that they are born again John 3:7. Spiritually speaking that person is a baby and babies trip and fall and they mess up.Babies drink milk and a new believer is to drink their spiritual milk (see 1Peter2:2; Hebrews 5:13) so they can grow to be mature Christians and as they grow and abide by God’s word they can then eat MEAT :D, spiritual meat i.e.
1Cr 10:3 And did all eat the same spiritual meat;
Of course the believer messes up but as they grow to be like Christ it should not be a pattern. If the believer does sin they should confess and repent.We confess to God, NOT a priest, see Hebrews 4:16. Of course if the believer did something wrong to someone they should confess to the person they did the wrong to and if the offense was a real biggie, like adultery or something then that person’s name is removed from membership and they are to be treated like a heathen or a tax collector (Matthew 18:17). That simply means that although they are removed from membership we are to LOVE them back in :)
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Jag said:- “Consider this; A christian kills a man.
Now, where does it say that he is no longer a christian? Is he not a christian who has sinned? …”
I think i sorta answered some of this already. However, ultimately God ALONE is man’s judge ["God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil." Ecclesiastes 12:14. "Let both [wheat and tares] grow together until the harvest.” “The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend.” Matthew 13:30, 41. “Behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.” Revelation 22:12.”
Sure in the bible there are instructions on how to run the church but NO HUMAN can determine if another human is destined for heaven or hell. That’s God’s job! :) all we can do is guess but one has to be VERY careful about looking at the faults of others especially if they are not doing it to restore the person to a RIGHT relationship with God.
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Jag said:-” To me it is of the utmost cause for hilarity that you can equate the Third Reich with anarchy.”
Sorry dude LOL I should have said the wild wild west or something; i know the third Reich gets attention. But all of them were a mess; i mean people can’t CREATE life so why are they taking it? even if it’s organized or chaotic killings!
God sets the standard for what’s right or wrong! humans are ALL sinful and fickle. I believe the bible to be inspired by God. Evil is anything apart from God.
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jag said:- “You may try to portray bible as basis for structured civilizations but that would be a falsehood.”
Exodus 20:12-17 (King James Version)
12Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.
13Thou shalt not kill.
14Thou shalt not commit adultery.
15Thou shalt not steal.
16Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.
17Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour’s house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour’s wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour’s.
Jag look at the above commandments; any society, and i mean ANY society that has freedom for its citizens has to abide by those; and those commandments were around even before sin entered this earth! If one believes in CREATION then one believes that everything was perfect in the beginning. Our ancestors had photographic memories, they did not have to write things down to remember them.
However, it is sure hard to keep the last 6 commandments when one doesn’t believe in keeping the first 4. If one loooooves God they would want to keep all 10!
BTW jag, i think even the devils have some sort of order amongst themselves because they sure are doing their job of causing chaos on this planet!
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jag said:- “Dark ages was not called that because they had no lamps.”
:D LOL funny jag, but you know the bible PREDICTED that was going to happen. The Antichrist power came out of the dark ages (Antichrist also means in place of Christ)
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jag said:- “Infinite punishment for finite crimes does not say loving god but indifferent one.”
The bible does NOT teach that!!!!! —> look jag —–>”Is God a torturer ?
If God tortured His enemies in a fiery horror chamber throughout eternity, He would be more vicious and heartless than men have ever been in the worst of war atrocities. An eternal hell of torment would be hell for God also, who loves even the vilest sinner.”
Jag my friend please look at this study guide, it explains what the bible teaches —–>
http://www.amazingfacts.org/FreeStuff/BibleStudies/StudyGuides/tabid/105/ctl/ViewMedia/mid/453/IID/2-11/LNG/en/SC/R/Default.aspx?7=Is-The-Devil-In-Charge-Of-Hell?
May 19th, 2009 at 10:19 am
Great site and great information too, do you use twitter?
May 18th, 2009 at 8:25 pm
You keep not answering the simplest of questions, even if you repeat the questions in your own comments. It might not be a clear cut yes or no answer but we have language which transcends such problem.
My answer is, yes, they should let sinners sin as long as their sins do not harm anyone and do not go against the secular laws of the society.
See, you can answer it either with a simple yes, with conditional yes or even unconditional yes.
That question is not comparable to your example to a real life meeting where you have no time to form a proper answer but in this format, the only true limit to your answers is your conviction to your own opinions.
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Logical fallacy ‘No True Scotsman’ is the one religious groups keep presenting as evidence that no true believer can do anything wrong.
Reason for Why it is now constantly rebuffed here is that people keep throwing it in forefront as a defence for christianity and we keep saying that it is an equivocation and thus without merit as it is.
The claim of someone not being a true christian is comparable to these
Consider this; A christian kills a man.
Now, where does it say that he is no longer a christian? Is he not a christian who has sinned?
From where can one draw the conclusion that he is at that moment totally without a chance for salvation? How you can determine if he has not asked forgiveness already, right after the act? Or if he merely acted as he was taught to act by the clergy?
From which authority, you can draw the right to decree that he is no longer a christian or never was a christian? There is no mark of Cain upon him so whence your judgment rises from?
To me, it seems that the claim that some one was not a true christian merely means that now after the act, you no longer accept his christianity.
How you can justify that you are a true christian if you are unable to determine who is no true christian before the breaking point which you use as evidence for people of not being a true christian?
Does that not mean there is a breaking point for each and every christian after which they no longer fully validate under the criteria you use. In that light, every christian, you included, will most likely fail the criteria, sooner or later.
- -
To me it is of the utmost cause for hilarity that you can equate the Third Reich with anarchy. Your understanding or misunderstanding of particular concepts keep me amused.
Third Reich and the fascist Italy of Mussolini were the most efficient and organized places of their times. Anarchy had no place in those two places. Quite the opposite, as even the violence was ordered, recorded and evaluated. How do you think we know so much of the deeds of those two regimes? From their own book keeping.
If that is your view of anarchy, then you truly have no idea what true anarchy is. In a way one can say you are lucky for not knowing of true anarchy but it also portrays your inability to actually conceive what is anarchy, and thus where lies the line between good and evil.
I could say evil is only what you dislike and what you like is good. Under those premises I doubt you have any idea over what constitutes as evil, anarchy or even good.
You bring up the society and societal laws which are for most parts against the biblical laws, because humans crave for order and simplicity. Two traits which allow religions to thrive.
Now you present the situation of order by one to be somehow a bad thing. Upon what you base such decision? The rule of one has been and is still being used in the world. It can be abused but then the democracy can also be abused and actually often with lesser fear of reprisal.
The difference between dictator and democracy is in the number of dictators, one can say. Humans are unable to act effectively by using consensus after the number of people rise to certain level. But societies grew out of small groups which distributed the administrative duties to allow larger groups.
There would be anarchy if the words of believers are to be believed. So many a believer says that without a god they would do everything, kill, burn, rape, that peaceful society disagrees with. Making the whole concept of biblical morality to not be about morality but mere obedience under the threat of punishment.
You may try to portray bible as basis for structured civilizations but that would be a falsehood. If bible was the basis for civilizations then you have to explain why there were many civilizations which grew to great power and advancement without bible. They had laws which are still used in one form or another.
If you put your claim of on new testament, you still need to explain even larger number of civilizations which prospered without the influence of bible. You actually have to explain the regression of civilizations which were turned into christianity. Dark ages was not called that because they had no lamps.
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God’s law shows his character, such true words as god knows no clemency. Infinite punishment for finite crimes does not say loving god but indifferent one.
May 18th, 2009 at 9:33 am
Ally, time for you to do some thinking instead of your usual spewing:
Your “god” of your Christian myths is purportedly all-powerful and benevolent. Yet you also claim that a devil known as “Satan” exists as the source of evil. So, to point out yet one more of the absurdities of the idiotic myths of your particular sect of Christianity, it is utterly absurd that an omnipotent creature, such as your god-myth is claimed to be, cannot simply do away with this Satan without humans having to presently suffer for it (such as in your Adam and Eve fiction).
Your god is obviously a man-made myth, nothing more. Get used to it, get past your silly Christian sky fairy tale, and stop your lengthy nonsense spewing. Your persistent posts laden with basic fallacies also get really tiresome.
Religion is for the ignorant, the gullible, and the stupid, and for those who would profit from them.
May 18th, 2009 at 3:33 am
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May 17th, 2009 at 8:45 pm
jagannath said:-
“So the right thing seems to be under christian doctrine to let sinners sin unhindered…
or not? Yes or No, answer is sufficient.”
Jag, my friend the answer is not as cut and dried as a yes or no answer.
It’s like a reporter who wants to set someone up. If the reporter asks ” So Pastor Saunders do you beat your wife, answer only yes or no?” If the pastor answers yes the headline reads “Pastor admits to beating wife!” If the Pastor says no then the headline reads “Pastor denies beating wife!” The reporter won’t give the pastor the chance to say “I did not ever beat my wife and I never will; I love my wife.”
I hope you understand my illustration; and i’m sorry if my illustrations in my previous post was not clear either. I sometimes forget that a lot of people are not familiar with the Christian jargon :)
This post is rather long but there are no short answers to explain topics like this :)
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Jag said:- “The ‘no true christian’ fallacy that is so tiresome and false.”
Jag? stop following Korgan and his nonsense. Based on what you wrote in your posts, you seem to have been actually thinking about what is written. Korgan on the other hand, only wants to debunk without even paying attention to what he’s debunking. That poor fellow is terrified of God and religion; but it’s not God he has to fear, Korgan should fear his spiritual boss [Korgan's spiritual boss is the devil and i don't even think he knows it :( ].
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jag said:-
“You are a human, yes?
-Humans should not kill other humans, yes?
-If human kills a human, is that human still a human?
If you say yes, how that is different when you change word human with a word christian?
If you say no, present us why the human is no longer a human and why christian is no longer a christian.”
Jag i don’t know what you were asking when you wrote the above but all i have to say is, God made everything perfect and it was not His will for any of His creatures to kill or be killed. Because God is omniscient He knows what is best for every one. God is also loving but a loving God has laws and when those laws are broken then sin and chaos happens. When God’s laws are broken it puts all of creation in jeopardy. God CANNOT run the universe without laws (the atheists seem to think that’s what God should have done and should do, it would seem).
Jag, what do you think would happen if there are no laws in our society? If people don’t have penalties when they break the laws, then whomever is the strongest and/or the smartest would take over, there will be total,total anarchy (We would have another third Reich! I mean, even with the laws of faulty humans, crime is still rampant.
Anyway, when Adam and Eve sinned they broke God’s law and God’s law shows His character. No creature knows more than the Creator and when one breaks his law this is what one is saying —->I know more than God. God’s laws are there for the freedom and protection of all His creatures. Satan started sin and evil in heaven and when Adam and Eve listened to him they gave their allegiance to Satan (who is another creature), instead of giving their allegiance to God, the omnipotent, omniscient, Creator.
God is also LOVE and He is also just. Love gives one the option to CHOOSE. God alone can create life and all creatures need Him to sustain their lives. If any created being wants to live with God they will obey His commands, if they do not want to live with Him God gives them that choice and eventually all creatures who do not want God will exist no more. He will not allow them to live against their will!
God is gracious; He knew that Satan was going to sin and He knew Adam and Eve was gonna sin also. God is NOT like us; He knows how to fix a problem instead of avoiding it . He already had a solution planned. God could have allowed Adam and Eve to die the minute they sinned and He could have destroyed the devil and His minions then too. But God provided a way for humans to escape eternal death, He himself would put on human flesh and pay that penalty so that we can be saved. Do you see? He gave the human race another chance to be redeemed and His law is still in tact! God died for all of us so each human has a chance to live for eternity if they so choose :)
When sin came into this world everything went out of whack!
Romans 8:22
“For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.”
However whereas the pain and suffering we see in this world may seem to be going on for a long time God promises that it will come to an end.
People are not supposed to murder each other but since we are in a sinful world, murders do occur; God does not want it but He is allowing sin to run it’s course so His creatures could see how utterly destructive SIN is! After it is over it will NEVER EVER happen again :) —> Nahum 1:9 “What do ye imagine against the LORD? he will make an utter end: affliction shall not rise up the second time.”
God will have solved the sin problem and He would have redeemed a multitude from the earth whom WANTED to be saved.
Oh! to actually answer your question. Humans are NOT to carry out premeditated murder; if one does carry it out, like Hitler to name one of the worst murderers in history, then God allows the civil authorities to KILL or execute them to prevent others from doing the same but no, regular folk ain’t supposed to kill anyone. If i knew of someone who plans to murder someone whether the person planning to do the murder is Christian or not, I WILL call the COPS!!!!
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jag said:-
“Also, it seems your usage of language seems self-contradictory.
…he is no longer gay
and last we heard he was going to
marry a “woman”!
Non-homosexual man marrying a non-woman? Your irony/unusual usage of quotation marks conveys truly mixed messages.”
Jag, when a person TRULY loves God they would want to obey Him. That young man fell back in love with God and God gave him the power to over come the sinful act of homosexuality. So, for a while when he was in rebellion against God and he gave into temptation and he committed homosexual acts he hurt God but God still loved him and God’s Holy Spirit kept reaching out to him and the young man responded. That fellow is no longer interested in having that sorta relationship with men. So yes, the young man who has and was born with a phallus is going to marry a woman who has and was born with a uterus :) (And you blasted atheists don’t go talking about humans that were born with defects i.e. born without a male phallus or females without uteri or those that have both male and female parts and yadda yadda; those don’t happen too often and i know you all will DELIBERATELY MISCONSTRUE what i’m saying)
That young man’s sin was homosexuality and only God knows what other sins he commits but the sanctification process is where the Christian’s character is going through a change to become more and more like Christ’s character and that process lasts as long as the human lives; other humans have other sins that they commit too and NO human is God! so they cannot know for certain where another’s eternal destiny will be but we can sometimes guess based on the way the person lived. For example, if someone were to go up to that young man and tell him you are going to hell for committing homosexual acts, they would be wrong to do that, that prerogative belongs to God alone and only God knows when a human truly repents and forsakes their sins.
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My quotation marks were for emphasis.:) I’m sorry they confused you.
P.S. God CANNOT let sin go totally unchecked on this world; Satan would kill everyone if God did that! God has an ACTIVE will and a PERMISSIVE will and He knows when to step in and He knows when to lay back and let us learn our lesson :)
May 16th, 2009 at 12:47 pm
I’ll chime in on this since I doubt a Christian will answer fully.
To be or not to be a human is not a choice.
To be or not to be a Christian is a choice.
If one choose to be a Christian and deviates from the construct of said choice one ceases to be a Christian.
However, having said that, if one chooses to be a Christian one must also accept the repercussions of said choice, just as one must accept eventual incarceration if once chooses to be a Murderer.
One can no more escape the ridicule than one can escape the incarceration.
If murder does not suit your taste, one can substitute and cause-and-effect scenario. (i.e.”catching” for a horse and a perforated colon.)
May 14th, 2009 at 7:55 pm
Lot of text, little of actual answer. But is this correct;
or not? Yes or No, answer is sufficient.
The ‘no true christian’ fallacy that is so tiresome and false.
Consider this;
-You are a human, yes?
-Humans should not kill other humans, yes?
-If human kills a human, is that human still a human?
If you say yes, how that is different when you change word human with a word christian?
If you say no, present us why the human is no longer a human and why christian is no longer a christian.
Also, it seems your usage of language seems self-contradictory.
Non-homosexual man marrying a non-woman? Your irony/unusual usage of quotation marks conveys truly mixed messages.
May 14th, 2009 at 6:02 pm
Ugg. Post 204 is merely more Allycrap spew, yet again without substance and without support in facts. The bible itself presents a rather different picture than the one that Ally chooses to believe. The real picture of Christianity is a horrid, murderous, racist, and sexist one.
In response to the latest Allycrap, here are just a few of the many guidances to murder and violence, and other horrors promoted by the Christian book of horrors also known as the bible:
# Jesus says that he has come to destroy families by making family members hate each other. He has “come not to send peace, but a sword.”
# Jesus condemns entire cities to dreadful deaths and to the eternal torment of hell because they didn’t care for his preaching.
# Jesus will send his angels to gather up “all that offend” and they “shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.”
# Jesus is criticized by the Pharisees for not washing his hands before eating. He defends himself by attacking them for not killing disobedient children according to the commandment: “He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death.” (See Ex.21:15, Lev.20:9, Dt.21:18-21) So, does Jesus think that children who curse their parents should be killed? It sure sounds like it.
# Jesus advises his followers to mutilate themselves by cutting off their hands and plucking out their eyes. He says it’s better to be “maimed” than to suffer “everlasting fire.”
# “And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors.”
# In the parable of the marriage feast, the king sends his servants to gather everyone they can find, both bad and good, to come to the wedding feast. One guest didn’t have on his wedding garment, so the king tied him up and “cast him into the outer darkness” where “there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”
# Jesus had no problem with the idea of drowning everyone on earth in the flood. It’ll be just like that when he returns. 24:37
# God will come when people least expect him and then he’ll “cut them asunder.” And “there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”
# The servant who kept and returned his master’s talent was cast into the “outer darkness” where there will be “weeping and gnashing of teeth.”
# Jesus tells us what he has planned for those that he dislikes. They will be cast into an “everlasting fire.”
# Jesus says the damned will be tormented forever.
Mark
# Jesus explains why he speaks in parables: to confuse people so they will go to hell. 4:11-12
# Jesus sends devils into 2000 pigs, causing them to jump off a cliff and be drowned in the sea. When the people hear about it, they beg Jesus to leave. 5:12-13
# Any city that doesn’t “receive” the followers of Jesus will be destroyed in a manner even more savage than that of Sodom and Gomorrah. 6:11
# Jesus criticizes the Jews for not killing their disobedient children as required by Old Testament law. (See Ex.21:15, Lev.20:9, Dt.21:18-21) 7:9-10
# If you’re ashamed of Jesus, he’ll be ashamed of you. (And you’ll go straight to hell.) 8:38
# Jesus tells us to cut off our hands and feet, and pluck out our eyes to avoid going to hell. 9:43-49
# Jesus says that those that believe and are baptized will be saved, while those who don’t will be damned. 16:16
Luke
# God strikes Zacharias dumb for doubting the angel Gabriel’s words. 1:20
# Those who fail to bear “good fruit” will be “hewn down, and cast into the fire.” 3:9
# John the Baptist says that Christ will burn the damned “with fire unquenchable.” 3:17
# Jesus heals a naked man who was possessed by many devils by sending the devils into a herd of pigs, causing them to run off a cliff and drown in the sea. This messy, cruel, and expensive (for the owners of the pigs) treatment did not favorably impress the local residents, and Jesus was asked to leave. 8:27-37
# Jesus says that entire cities will be violently destroyed and the inhabitants “thrust down to hell” for not “receiving” his disciples. 10:10-15
# Jesus says that we should fear God since he has the power to kill us and then torture us forever in hell. 12:5
# Jesus says that God is like a slave-owner who beats his slaves “with many stripes.” 12:46-47
And that’s just to get started.
Religion is for the stupid, the ignorant, and the gullible, and for those who would profit from them.
May 14th, 2009 at 10:49 am
LOL Hey Korgan! since when is your name “jag”? Look Korgan, i’m sorry that you were traumatized with “religion” and i do pray for you, but man, you sure do have your “blinders” secured to your head really tightly :)
I don’t have time now to answer some of these posts but here’s a poem and it’s especially for Korgan.
Don’t Confuse Me With The Truth!
By Clinton Meharry, @ 2006
“Don’t confuse me with the truth, my dear!
I know what I believe.
Just tell me what I want to hear
Or I may have to leave!”
“I’m comfortable the way I am;
I really don’t like change.
The truth might make me feel condemned,
Or lead to something strange.”
“When evidence is pointed out
From the Bible that is clear,
I’d rather question, run, or doubt!
For change is what I fear.”
“Don’t confuse me with the truth just yet,
Life is difficult enough!
With rejection, guilt, stress, and debt!
Adding change would make it tough.”
“Look and see! The majority
Would not believe a lie!
They are my authority;
On them I will rely.”
May 13th, 2009 at 8:40 pm
Regarding post 202, how can “Christian murderer” be an “oxymoron” when the bible so frequently promotes murder, and the Christian god-myth is itself so murderous?
You are also repeatedly spouting the No True Scotsman fallacy.
Ding ding ding: Ally wins the recently minted RF NTS award of the day.
Religion is a disease of the mind. Inoculate against it with reason.
May 13th, 2009 at 12:30 pm
Hi jag! how are you? : )
I’m gonna attempt to answer your post; i hope that you are genuinely trying to understand the beliefs taught in the bible and you’re “NOT” doing like what a lot of atheists tend to do and dismiss what the Christian says while looking for any little mistake they make (You know? throw the baby out with the bathwater!)
OK now to answer your post.
“My quandary …”
Oh jag, we as Christians are “supposed” to have “compassion without compromise”. We are to love the sinner and not condone the sin.
For example, if one of my married friends should take leave of their senses and decide that they’re gonna have an affair and i realize it, i am not to encourage them to do that. I should “dissuade” them from doing it and if they still persist , i should tell them you are wrong to do that. I should not “condemn” my friend though, meaning i should not tell their spouse to beat them up or have them killed or even to drag their name through the mud! I should pray that the holy spirit would work on my friend’s heart and hope that my friend would respond to the holy spirit and “repent”.
I heard of a story recently, where a member of a Christian church decided that he was gonna be homosexual and if he wants to be homosexual he is “free” to do that. However a Christian homosexual is an oxymoron just like Christian murderer, or Christian drug dealer etc etc. He tried to get his mother to force the church into maintaining his membership; they wanted to sue the church! I mean he could attend the church if he wants providing that he is respectful and not lewd etc but he cannot hold office in the church! Well, the members of that church prayed for that young man and his mother because they did and do love them and want them to be saved for eternity. Apparently that young man responded to the pleading of the holy spirit and he is no longer gay and last we heard he was going to marry a “woman”!
I also want you to note if a church member is “caught” fornicating, or committing adultery, or stealing etc they are removed from membership, but they can still attend church, which they usually do. Eventually they get re-baptized, now if they are sincere or not only God knows, we can only look at their actions and if they have “skeletons” in their closet” they are gonna face God in the judgment!
This story is an amazing story of “turn the other cheek”. It describes a lady’s experience from the Rwanda genocide; she adopted the dude that killed her husband and who cracked her skull open with a machete
: 0. Hmmm, no eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth philosophy there :). I dunno if i could do that though; one really has to pray for “grace” and let God “miraculously” work in them in order to do that!
http://www.itiswritten.com/tvprogram/episode/2006/01/1026 <—– New Life for a Dying Nation
PS It is possible to disagree with someone without being “disagreeable”. Please forgive Christians et al that put their foot in their mouths sometimes and may actually come off as mean. Jesus is not like that! We are a mess and we don’t always listen to His council, so please don’t condemn us OK?
May 13th, 2009 at 10:32 am
So, christians are supposed to hate the sin but love the sinner, at least that is the party line given with gritted teeth.
My quandary is the opposition to homosexuality under this creed. If we assume homosexuality to be a sin, then you are free to dislike it to any degree you want. But also under the free will precept people are allowed to do what they want aka sin to their hearts content. Christians are also instructed to love thy neighbour and turn the other cheek.
In a list format;
-Hate the sin
-Love the sinner
-Free will allows one to sin
-Love thy fellow man
-Turn the other cheek
If you limit ones ability to sin, you go against god.
If you hate sinners, you go against god.
If you oppose the sinners, you go against god.
So the right thing seems to be under christian doctrine to let sinners sin unhindered, yet you chose to oppose god instead.
PS: The Sommers book is very good