A Christian reader by the name of Kevin left a lengthy response to George Carlin’s Take on Religion. Since Kevin was kind enough to take the time to chime in, I thought it best to move his comment to the main page for all to discuss. It’s a long one so grab a cup of your favorite drink and give it a read!
Kevin writes:
I am a Christian. I’ve read 26 postings on this website and I’ve found only 2 to be somewhat supportive of Christian beliefs (although I don’t agree with their responses). Instead of attacking your beliefs and starting some kind of word war back and forth that does no good for anyone, I would rather provide some basic education on what the bible REALLY says and let you decide what to believe for yourself. Before we begin I want you to know that I’m a normal guy off the street. I’m not a preacher or some weirdo that stands on a street corner telling people their going to burn in hell. I’m just someone who was once like you (didn’t have much belief in religion) but decided to research Christianity so I could make a well informed decision whether I did or didn’t want believe in God. It just so turns out that I chose to believe. If after reading this you decide to explore Christianity further… GREAT! If you have further questions for me… GREAT… just ask! If you decide to remain an atheist, it’s your life and your decision to make. I just want to make sure you are educated when you make this decision.
George Carlin lists three main reasons why he doesn’t believe in God in this skit. They are: 1) why isn’t God visible, 2) if God loves us so much, why does He punish those who don’t follow His rules by sending them to hell, and 3) if God is so good why is there so much war, violence, death, etc. in the world? Since all of you are saying he hit it right on the head, I would like to explore each of these statements. Let’s start from the bottom and work to the top.
“If God is so good why is there so much war, violence, death, etc. in the world?” In the first book of the bible “Genesis†we are informed that God created heaven and earth in six days and then rested on the seventh. During these six days He also created man (Adam and Eve). We are also informed that man did initially live in a perfect place where there was no war, violence, death, etc (the Garden of Eden). God only had one rule for man while living in this place, which was not to eat from “the tree of life”. However, Satan (referred to as the serpent in the scripture) encouraged man to disobey God (which he continues to do even today), so they chose to go ahead and eat an apple from the tree. God was so disappointed with the fact that He created us and gave us this perfect place to live and we broke his one and only rule, that He banished all of mankind from this perfect place forever. Hence the condition of the world today. So in reality, it was our own disobedience to our Creator that allowed the war, violence, death, etc. to come into the world. Now, this may bring-up more questions. Some may wonder why God made this rule. Why not just let people enjoy life without rules? The answer is to establish God as our authority figure. Only those of authority can set rules. He wants us to acknowledge Him as our Creator and Father. Following His rules allows us to acknowledge this through our actions. Others may wonder why Satan was allowed to be in this perfect place. The answer to this is to give us freedom of choice. If God created us to be perfect robots, how personal of a relationship do you think we would have with Him? So, instead of creating us in that way, he allows us to be tempted and to choose Him. If we choose God and decide to place our faith in Him even after facing temptation, our relationship with Him becomes VERY personal. We start to actually live for Him instead of living for our own pleasures.
Okay, the next issue we need to deal with is, “If God loves us so much, why does He punish those who don’t follow His rules by sending them to hell?†The bible does in fact tell us that God HATES sin so much that the punishment for sin is eternity in hell. So, if this is true (which it is) doesn’t that mean we are all going to hell? After all, we are all sinners. I am. You are. Everyone who has ever walked this earth or will ever walk this earth has or will sin… except for one… Jesus Christ. This is the good news! All throughout the bible we are informed that Jesus lived an absolute perfect live (i.e. he never sinned – not even once). The reason He could do this was because He came from God. Jesus is a divine being that was not created by man, but rather a part of God who simply walked the earth. Maybe the best description is the spirit/soul of God’s Son who lived inside of a human body. He is the only One who has or will ever live on earth that didn’t deserve to be punished for sin. However, during His perfect life of teaching God’s word and showing us how to live He was unrightfully sentenced to death and killed (crucified on the cross). When this happened God took all of the hate He had for sin and took it out on Jesus. So, Jesus willingly stood on that cross and took the punishment we deserve just so God’s anger for sin could be quenched once and for all. Stop and think about this… Jesus laid down his life after doing nothing wrong because He loves us so much that He doesn’t want to see us go to hell. And God actually spent his wrath on His one and only son who did everything right, just so sinners like you and I could be forgiven. So, shouldn’t our question be, “How could God love us so much that He punished His one and only Son who lived a perfect life just so sinners like us could be forgiven?†This often leads to a secondary question, which is, “Do I need to do anything to be forgiven?†The bible tells us that everyone can be forgiven for their sins, no matter how bad they are. There are three actions that must be taken in order to receive this forgiveness. They are: 1) have faith that Jesus Christ was God’s son who lived a perfect live and died for our sins, 2) formally claim Jesus as your Lord and Savior by being baptized (also known as “being saved†– this is for a reason), and 3) “repent†by changing your life and trying to obey God’s commands the best you can (when you fall short – which we all will – just ask Him to forgive you and He will as long as you don’t take advantage of His grace by intentionally sinning over and over).
“Why isn’t God visible?†This was the first question asked. The bible tells us that nobody has ever seen what God truly looks like. However, before the birth of Jesus he did actually appear many times to humans in various forms (e.g. light, clouds, etc) and He spoke to them as well. So… why doesn’t He appear anymore? The answer is three fold. All answers relate to those already given. The first answer is that He has already told us everything we need to know. Not only did He speak to us many times before Jesus, but he most importantly spoke to us through Jesus. Jesus spent his life showing and teaching us what God wants. So what purpose would He have to hang around after telling us everything we need to know? To repeat himself? This leads us to our second answer, which is that He wants you to genuinely trust Him. Why should He have to repeat himself over and over? The only reasons we want to hear something repeated is if we didn’t understand it the first time or if we need reassurance. He wants us to read the bible for better understanding and to trust the words He and His Son have spoken to us. The last answer might be a tough one for some of you to grasp… its to help us establish a closer relationship with Him. This probably sounds backwards to most of you, but I assure you its not. I can testify as being a Christian myself that when you place your faith in the Lord, you are baptized, and you start to live your life for Him, you can actually feel His presence/guidance in your life as though He is a part of you. It’s an absolutely amazing felling! It’s an inner peace that words can’t describe. If you can’t relate to this just ask yourself, “Would you have a closer relationship with a God that actually becomes part of you, or with a God that is an independent being?
Well, these are the biblical answers to the questions that George Carlin and most of you struggle with. The tough part of believing in God is that it deals with “faith†or emotion/heart and not “science†or thinking/brain. Those of you who are very intelligent and rely on your brain than your heart to get you through life will likely struggle more than others. I would encourage all of you to seriously consider what I have written and to even visit a local Christian church to talk to a minister. They would be happy to spend one on one time with you answering any questions you have. The one thing I can’t stress enough is for you to take your time and make a good sound decision on this… after all we are talking about eternity. If you have questions for me, please feel free to reply. However, I would like to ask on both of our behalves that we keep it cordial and not get into a “war of the words†because that does no good for any of us. God bless.
–Kevin
Related posts:
1) God created Hell
2) God knew at creation that some of his created beings will suffer it eternally
3) God has the power to unconditionally save all his creation yet chooses not to
How is God not responsible again? You may not be able to blame God for Hell, but if your mythology turns out to be correct, I certainly can. More importantly why does God not make salvation unconditional and universal? Does God not have the power or knowledge? Does God not love his creation enough? A being who is not omnibenevolent, omniscient, and omnipotent may not be worthy of worship.
False analogy. A parent is not omnipotent, omniscient, nor omnibenevolent. If I were properly in God’s shoes, I’d use my power first to straighten the little brat out and second, to ensure his eternal bliss. No death needed.
you’ve done a nice job of saying we should be nice and friendly to each other, which is something I completely agree with. And wether or not Jesus told people to be nice to each other it up for debate, but I agree with it once more.
However, there is no true basis for either Jesus’ divinity, nor for an intervening god. It’s like Sid said above, the only two acceptable options are Agnosticism or Deism, but that’s it. There is no reliable proof, or even a possibility for any other option.
The universe exists, either it formed itself, or was created by some extra-logical deity. It’s one of those two, but as soon as start about the Christian God, you hit far to many scientific, logical and phylosophical roadblocks.
Sid… I can’t spend much more time right now writing about this. But I did want to let you know I read your comments and appreciate your willingness to keep this discussion civil as well. It’s refreshing. As far as your first post on creation, we could bat this ball back and forth all day and I don’t think we’d get anywhere. Your points are interesting, but they don’t make me think otherwise. I’ve made my points and they don’t make you think otherwise. I think we’ve reached a gridlock on this one.
As far as your second post goes, I see your point. Maybe the most humane way would be to use your power to straighten him out. The problem is that if you did this with him, you would take away his ability to make decisions and turn him into a robot. This is why God created us the way he did. He didn’t want to make little robots that can’t make any decisions on their own. He wants us to be able to make the decision to live for him.
Alcari… You are right. Either earth created itself or there is a God who created it. There are no other options. I hope the points I made earlier made it clear that the later choice is the only realistic option. However, you seem to have trouble accepting a Christian God. Why? This is concerning to me. Do you not believe that a man named Jesus existed? Or do you not believe he was divine?. Or is there another reason? I’m curious to know your reasoning. If you believe God is our creator, this is GREAT! You are half way there! However, this is not enough for your salvation. The reason is because it would mean that you are relying on your own good deeds alone. God clearly tells us in scripture that sin equals hell and no amount of good deeds can overcome this. Someone has already paid the price of your sin. He was beaten, humiliated, and crucified for you. He stood in front of you and took your punishment. All he asks in return is that you acknowledge the fact that he did so. That’s it. There are a few verses in the bible that make this very clear. They are:
This verse tells us that God wants all of us to be saved. Even you. Regardless of what you’ve done. It also acknowledges that Jesus gave his life for you.
1 Timothy 2:3-6 This is good, and pleases God our Savior, [4] who wants all men to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. [5] For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, [6] who gave himself as a ransom for all men…
This tells us that it is only by God’s grace that we can be saved, not by our good works alone.
Ephesians 2:8-9 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith — and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God — not by works, so that no one can boast.
These verses all discuss the importance of accept Christ. They clearly tell us that just accepting God doesn’t result in salvation. We must accept Christ as our savior.
John 3:16-18, 36 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. [18] Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son….
John 14:6 Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.â€
1 John 5:11-12 And this is the testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. [12] He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life.
“That is because when the bible was assembled the scholars of the time heavily scrutenized all the books to make sure they were accurate. The four books that were included were considered to be the only accurate gospels worthy of being included in the bible. And if you truly read them you would clearly see they are NOT at odds with each other. In fact, when you read them you almost feel like it’s deja vu because many of the events are the same. Just because one of the books doesn’t mention the virgin birth doesn’t mean it conflicts. If it said he was not born from a virgin, then it would conflict.”
There is a lot of evidence that the bible was manipulated to suit certain aims and make christianity more palatable to the gentiles (and eventually Romans) of the time.
And there ARE significant variances between the gospels regarding such critical points as Jesus’ ressurection. Given that the earliest of the gospels wasnt written down until about 35 years after Jesus’ death (having been passed on exclusively in the oral tradition until then) I think its fairly safe to say that the old ‘chinese whispers’ effect has come into play!
Sure, I believe that a man called Jesus lived back then, but I dont believe he was divine, nor do I take much of what the gospels say about him as even a marginally historical account of his life.
“Alcari… You are right. Either earth created itself or there is a God who created it. There are no other options. I hope the points I made earlier made it clear that the later choice is the only realistic option. However, you seem to have trouble accepting a Christian God. Why? This is concerning to me. Do you not believe that a man named Jesus existed? Or do you not believe he was divine?. Or is there another reason? I’m curious to know your reasoning. If you believe God is our creator, this is GREAT! You are half way there!”
At least a good part of the reason we disagree with you is because there are many personal assumptions in your statements like the one above, and those won’t get you anywhere in what is supposed to be an objective argument. Starting with, “Either earth created itself or there is a God who created it,” I’m going to assume you meant “universe” instead of earth, because if not then this is to simple to even respond to. Even if you meant universe, though, the alternatives are either self-creation or God? How about god, which is to say a god, some other god, many gods? If you ask where they came from I simply say the same place as your God. How about a force we typically call “nature,” or the Force? Perhaps God is just a name for some abstract creative energy? Or what about the eternal existence of the universe? I have yet to see a better way of proving or denying it than any proof of a creator, objectively speaking. To fix these problems we must reduce your argument to “either the universe was not made by something else or it was made by something else.” But that doesn’t say much of anything, and it’s not something we can really prove either way in any effective manner. I fail to see how a being such as your God is any more believable than any of my above alternatives. Just because he would be an explanation that seems to cover all the bases does not make it an argument for anything. There is such a thing as saying, “We cannot determine which it is with certainty.”
From there you go from not only God with a capital G but to the Christian God. How do you justify this?
Then you go to such things as Jesus’ being divine, and yet within your own religion people differ on these things. Why couldn’t God exist and Jesus not be divine (see: Arianism)?
Where then do these things come from that you have in your arguments? I would assume they are matters of personal belief and conviction. But if that is so, don’t expect them to override any one else’s personal beliefs/convictions, since they’re all on the same field.
Thanks snurp, that’s exactly what I said, but it was taken wholly out of it’s proper meaning.
And why should I have to explain why I don’t believe in the christian God? Why don’t you believe in Thor, Zeus, Allah and the Invisible Pink Unicorn?
I am not the one who needs to deliver proof, you are the one who needs to prove, depite vast ammounts of evidence to the contrary, that there in fact is, or is a need for, the christian God. The same goes for the divinity of Jesus and.
Kevin came full throttle into this forum assuming atheists know nothing about christianity. I think it is safe to say that Kevin knows nothing of astronomy, time, and how the natural world works. He thinks he does, which is his greatest vulnerability to religion. Kevin has a God complex. He thinks he knows everything isn’t even aware of what science can explain. Ignorant, ignorant, ignorant.
In my eyes it is he who is missing out, and that just makes me frustrated.
The universe makes perfect sense if you investigate the right resources. Evolution of species, and loosely using the term evolution here, of galaxies makes perfect sense if you are taught.
Atheists are self taught really, you don’t get training at school for ‘how the universe works’, but it’s out there.
I’m on the side that the big bang is nothing more than a white hole. There should be plenty of these born from our universe, so I believe we are but one of many universes, occasionally interacting when unimaginable amounts of matter come together.
I’m also aware that my awareness changes over time, and I might have a different thought process of how it all works, but this will have nothing to do with what is available as knowledge now or 2000 years ago *have to laugh, sorry*, it will be from the information I gather in the future, by other people with more expertise than I.
I fuckin’ love life.
And just something for the atheists, even the bible makes sense if you investigate mushroom cults. I’ve been reading John Allegro ‘Sacred Mushroom and the Cross’. Brilliant.
Kevin, if you’re still checking this, try this on:
The Bible is a collection of stories of how humans have come to terms with self-consciousness. Becoming aware of our own mortality must have been overwelhming. Creating a powerful being to watch over us was a logical coping mechanism. Some of the stories can be verified through archeaology, but not the parts about the angels and voices. Saying that is fact, in the modern world, is not helpful. It diminishes the rest of the Bible, the parts we could have a real conversation about like, “thou shalt not kill”, what’s that all about, let’s talk.
Religion is evolving, it always has been, but since we are using 2000 year old scripts, it seems to be a bit behind the curve at the moment. As George Carlin pointed out, The Three Little Pigs is a story with a message too. Not a very sophisticated one. We know that there aren’t talking pigs, but we still tell our kids this story and talk about the message. Jesus told the story (or the Bible tells the story of a guy named Jesus telling a story) of the slaves who were given talents (money). We can use that story today to start a discussion about investing with a consciousness.
I’d rather do that than attempt to defend something that might have made sense 3,000 years ago, but just doesn’t work today.
Kevin…trying not to be too unkind. But you like all other theists have been totally brainwashed into believing a rediculous 2000 year old book written by bronze-aged uneducated nomads who knew nothing about science and invented their own history of the universe. No the Earth didn’t make itself. Evolution made the Earth as it did the entire universe. There are many things that modern science can not explain. That doesn’t mean that we should invent an explanation. You are a very gullable person Kevin.
“uneducated” ?? what university would you like them to have attended? Currently we have theories regarding the history of the universe, that is, we “invented” them. When something can’t be explained, we invent an explanation, then we test it and refine it. Granted Christianity is more resistant to refinement than I would like, but it has changed over the centuries. Kevin’s point of view is not the only one. I hope people 2,000 years from now look back with more compassion on our ignorance and attempt to understand how we were dealing with the knowledge we had available, instead of dismissing everything we wrote because we were fiber-optic-aged suburbanites.
“Evolution made the Earth”? are you sure about that?
Comment on Kevin’s explanation of the bible scriptures
My question to Kevin is this.
If God is the all supreme perfect being! why does he need anything from us? to even suggest that he does put’s a lot of doubt in my mind of this supreme being idea!
What’s the point! Why does a supreme being need for anything.
I just don’t get it. the idea of a supreme being means that they don’t need nor require anything from anyone or anything.
That being said, it seems that for a being like this to even exist! there needs to be a place for it to exist. like in our minds. Which to me makes this all false and just that. a belief, with nothing based in solid matter, energy or fact.
“a belief, with nothing based in solid matter, energy or fact.”
I wonder what Mr George Carlin is now? any of the above.
“If God is the all supreme perfect being! why does he need anything from us? to even suggest that he does put’s a lot of doubt in my mind of this supreme being idea!”
Ron, I want to help you and my bible helps in answering your question… All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.
Jesus came to save us from our sins and show us a way that is righteous, by offering us His way in which we should build our life upon Gods plan of salvation. You can be like Mr Carlin and live your life as such but such is not pleasing unto our Father and to me it is fruitless. Our Father has shown and offered Himself even unto death just like Mr Carlin unto his ways seems right-so be it. The pwg will be attacking me for the things i talk about but i can respect that for my-Our Father has told me of such things i should expect. Our Father does care just like the g-pa cares for his g-daughters but the difference is that our Father cares and hurts for what we have lost for what we have rejected. This life we live -we live for self or we live for Him. Can you respect the things i talk about? or will you stand and do the things of Mr Carlin? Jesus is the true vine and we are the branches within this vine. Why does God need us because ultimately He wants us to bringeth forth much fruit: for without Jesus, the true vine, ye can do nothing.
I apologize if i failed to answer your question but if a brother or sister should read this i hope it will be a blessing to them.
God Bless
Ron? God is extremely personal; as a matter of fact He is love and He does have feelings, He created His creatures to love them and for them to love Him in return.
Also, if one WANTS to find God they will! A person has to put effort into finding God. They are not supposed to take God lightly, especially if they are going to spend eternity with Him.
Jeremiah 29:13
You will seek me and find me when you seek me with all your heart.
Hebrews 12:16
Lest there be any fornicator, or profane person, as Esau, who for one morsel of meat sold his birthright.
Hebrews 12:15-17 (in Context) Hebrews 12 (Whole
If one wants to be an atheist they are “FREE” to be one. But if one is searching, seriously searching for a God of love they would find Him!
This author explains some of it :-
“Untainted Humans
The biblical text seeks not to solve the mystery of the existence of humans but rather to deepen it by directly connecting their origin to God. That God created us means that we are not accident– that we are not just the end product of mindless natural law. We are the result of divine reflection, analysis, and the expression of divine freedom, power, and love. Such divine intentionality places a high value on the human race and indissolubly binds us to God in a Creator-creature relationship. At its deepest level creation in the image of God means precisely that we can have fellowship with Him.”
” Fellowship with God.
As already indicated, the plurality of persons within the Godhead unveils the fact that God is social and that consequently fellowship is part of His essence. Being created in the image of God defines humans as social beings existing in fellowship with others. The first social relationship that Adam established was with God. The Creator breathed the breath of life into his nostrils, and the first man became a living being. This was life, but not divine life, as if Adam were now participating in the very life of God. Rather it was created life. When Adam opened his eyes, his brain registered its first image, that of God. Two persons looked at each other in the Garden of Eden, and as a result they were bound to each other in the most glorious fellowship that humans could ever have.
Also Eve’s first social interaction was not with Adam, but with God. He intentionally planned it that way. The Creator put Adam to sleep not because He did not want Adam to feel pain during the “surgery,” but in order for Eve to enjoy the same privilege he had, namely to experience fellowship with God before having it with Adam. The enjoyment of union with God defined humans as unique, setting them apart from the rest of the created world. They found their greatest joy in life in an existence characterized by unhindered fellowship with the Lord.” …
“Freedom of will and action.
When God created humans, He endowed them with freedom, a fact revealed in the narrative in several ways. First , fellowship presupposes freedom. Union with God does not take place outside the realm of human history—that is, in some mystical sphere that erases self- consciousness. Instead, union with God is fellowship with Him in our mode of existence as creatures, and it presupposes willingness on the part of the humans to participate in it . Otherwise there is no freedom. Second, fellowship with other humans also presupposes that same type of freedom by which we not only interact with them but also accept and love them.”
… “Possibly the most important passage supporting the fact that God created humans free is Genesis 2:16,17: “You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat of it you will surely die.” Eating is an instinctive response to a build-in need in our being that does not require freedom. Even telling humans what to eat is not necessarily an endowment of freedom. The idea of freedom surfaces in all it’s power and beauty when God commands them not to eat from a tree. The command itself was meaningful only in the context of the freedom of individuals to obey or not to obey it. Otherwise, why would it be necessary to give a command? Why not make abstention from eating from that particular tree an instinctive response, a mechanical action?
But what kind of freedom gives you the option only to choose death? Could not the threat of death become an enslaving power that would deprive humans of freedom to act ? In order to explore the true implications of those questions, we need to approach them from the angle of the choices available to humans. It is difficult to think of a created being as a free agent. For obvious reasons God brought Adam and Eve into existence without their free consent. God in His freedom and sovereignty decided and proceeded to create them. Their freedom emerged after their creation in the form of the possibility of a choice. The choices at the disposal of Adam and Eve were not many—they had only two.
We find both of the choices that they confronted in the text we quoted above. A superficial reading may give the impression that the choices were either to eat or not to eat from the tree. But they were not really about eating although it did involve that. The narrative takes us to the very depth of the nature of human freedom and establishes that such freedom has to do with the most fundamental question a creature has to address— that of choosing life or death. The biblical writer is not telling us that the universe possesses two eternal antagonistic forces, namely the power of God as life and the power of someone or something else as death, and that we can select between them. The issues are much more complex.
Let me suggest for your consideration that what the text establishes is that ONLY GOD IS, and that apart from Him there is nothing else,but between being with God and not being. This makes absolute sense within the flow of the narrative.
As already indicated, Adam and Eve came into being without giving them freedom to choose to be created or not. That was a logical impossibility. But now the Creator did offer them the freedom to choose existence or nonexistence, that is to say, to freely accept the gift of life or to go back to nothingness. God offered the options in the firm command, because the creator had a preference. He wanted them to select life, and therefore He emphasized as strongly as possible that if they opted for death He would honor their choice and that they would “surely die.”
Obviously , rejecting God’s gift of life would be to spurn Him, an act of rebellion, but He was willing to accept their decision. Since God’s intentions for humans was positive, it is difficult to imagine that Adam and Eve would have seriously considered the possibility of rejecting life. But the option was there—otherwise God would have enslaved them to live on a planet for ever without their consent. …”
The whole chapter is in the following book . I got the above from chapter 3. “A Race Is Fallen”:-
http://books.google.com/books?id=KOnRQ3hM8RYC
Also Ron, hell does not exist yet and when it comes about it will not exist for eternity (that teaching scares a lot of people and it simply is not true).Hell will be temporary and God does not want any human to “perish” but if they choose to not want to be with Him , He will grant them their wish.
Ally, enough already with your lengthy copying and pasting. Your god is a myth, plain and simple. Get out of the house, get with the modern world, and read a biology textbook.
Religion is ridiculous.
Shalom Macachisadec to everyone, Ally, let’s do the “copy & paste” *dance*, because i too like to do both, hmmm.
in all meaningful thought i was listening to Dr. R.C. Sproul on the radio last night and he mentioned “the silent scream”. i know this pain that burns in me and also listening to skeptoid(?) in his way of thinking and trying to understand thus such thinking is far from me which is un-understandable and only to be understood in Jesus Christ My Lord and Saviour. The Apostle Paul in relation, reading his thoughts and feelings say’s Romans 8:22-27, vs 22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now. & vs 23 Likewise the Spirit helps us in our weakness. For we do not know what to pray for as we ought, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words.
I guess these “silent screams” that in away as stated are too deep for words which i find it difficult to express to you all. but the core of it would be that if hearing the silent screams and cry and pray. With all thoughts by casting all your care upon him; for he careth for you, my brothers and sisters.
The Silent screams and the death that is upon them that delivers the death of those silent screams. Jesus has put upon the sword you say that is to be torn apart and shall deliver the death of a brother a father the child and raise against the parents all deliver the silence screams that world values as nothing as in nonsense yet supported upon the sword of truth which is in us. may our Holy spirit that is in us continue to groan and travails so that we can continue in prayer within our hearts with our Fathers will be done. “Families will be torn apart because of Jesus.” Brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the father the child: and the children shall rise up against their parents, and cause them to be put to death.
I’m so glad that the hyrocket-bot isn’t on my team.
(And that its vengeful jerk of a god doesn’t exist.)
Religion is a disease of the mind. Inoculate against it with reason.
Korgan, thank you for putting me in a gaiety mood and praise my Lord and Saviour for you and appreciate the fundamental difference between us.
Korgan, your post 68 proves that last verse i used, which was taken from another page here. the last verse is from Matthew 10:21 and i have included verse 22 to get the truth you have made to me And the brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the father the child: and the children shall rise up against [their] parents, and cause them to be put to death. And ye shall be hated of all [men] for my name’s sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.
Someone here used this verse against us Christians to make their point. But he failed to put it in context, leaving verse 22 out. Your post 68 has proven this to be true. let me put this another way.
Lets say as you are, accepted Jesus Christ as your Lord and Saviour and become like me. You’re a new creature as stated in 2COR5:17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come. because you are saved you preach the truth in Jesus name for you know He is God and has set you free and you see this verse in your heart For the word of God [is] quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and [is] a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
but you tell others about the these things you know – you will experience this Matt 10:21, for the sword of men is different from the Sword of God. The sword of men shall deliver up the brother to death. Knowing this death is nothing compared to the saving power from our sins putting you in the presence of our Holy God.
“God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved”
Korgan, thanks and if anyone would put their name in place of Korgan, this Matt 21 and 22 will resonate in the very truth that Jesus is God and has come to save us from our sins by Him alone and not of any works we can do bring us into paradise. repent and see His the sword He offers is LIFE.
In Psalm 25:5 let it be in us my brothers and sister, that Jesus is our Lord and Saviour which we bow before the cross of His sacrifice-looking to Him alone as the author and finisher of our faith…
Lead me in your truth and teach me, for you are the God of my salvation; for you I wait all the day long.
hyrocket, FUCK OFF WITH YOUR ANNOYING SPEWING OF YOUR BULLSHIT SCRIPTURE AND GO AWAY.
Who cares what this guy says. So he believes in a fairy tale. Doesn;t change my way of thinking. Doesn’t make him a douche-bag. He is just another human entitled to his opinion. Is it annoying? YES. But this is the typical “holier than thou” attitutude that I have come to expect from religious fanatics. They insist that they are not being that way, but like them believing in fairy tales, they cannot see the truth. I am a good person. I don’t need stories or an “invisible man” in the sky to tell me that I am not. We will never ever convince the “religioulus” that there is no Invisible being controlling the universe… EVER. We are going up against thousands of years of BS, which these people eat up every word of. Funny, they wouldn’t beleive something a stranger on the street told them as truth without doubting it, but they beleive people from thousands of years ago writing stories who they have never seen, met, or evenspoke the same language as, as the ultimate truth. OF COURSE THEY ARE FLAWED. That is why they need their religion to feel good about themselves again.
wow guys, you dont have to be religious or Christian to show some respect.
i appreciate the information above, kevin :)
as for the nonbelievers, i totally undestand your point of views. that’s why I’m not gonna argue.
God will reveal Himself to the non believers eventually. just embrace his love.
Re 72, love like this?:
http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/cruelty/nt_list.html
What a fucking ASSHOLE your god would be, if it actually existed. Glad it doesn’t.
Religion is ridiculous.
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b.
One question, if I’m a Christian, and I live with Christian values while casually trying to spread my faith to others with the genuine thought that it will improve their lives, am I really causing any problems to society as you atheists seem to be implying? When did the fruits of the spirit become a bad thing and what Christian values are harmful to society? Two questions but that’s beside the point
Yes, Alan, you are causing serious problems in your attempts at spreading your awful mind virus known as Christianity.
Encouraging people to follow absurd dogma such as the Christian nonsense, instead of teaching them critical thinking skills and helping them learn and develop scientific knowledge, is overall very bad for society.
“Christian values”, such as the demand to worship a spiteful and murderous supreme being without critically examining the accompanying dogma, are bad for us and to the detriment of humanity. Better to look to better sources such as the Golden Rule and mutually agreed upon rules, for good ways to treat others and benefit society, than to the largely arbitrary rules of your bigoted and sexist blood cult AKA Christianity.
Furthermore, the whole Jesus-sacrifice story, the foundation of your crazy superstition, is a steaming pile of nonsense. How is it again that your omnipotent being couldn’t do his saving bit without the whole silly Jesus hoopla? And how was Jesus’ death a “sacrifice”, when an omnipotent being could just pop up a replacement son any time with less than a snap of his fingers? Pretty pathetic “god” that you’ve made for yourself there, and that you seem to be seeking to sell us on.
Ask the questions. Break the chains. Join the movement.
Be free of Christianity and other superstitions.
http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/
Great post Bob.
And I have to say, it sounds like Alan is one of those “fruits of the spirit”…
Seriously, though, beyond the teaching of non-science and illogic that goes hand in hand with religion, sectarian violence from religions such as Islam and Christianity, although that is more history than present case in Christianity’s case (luckily that wacky superstition has had its more outlandish stuff watered down already) is a prime source of problems in the world. Good to see Christianity in decline, but Islam is a huge growing problem, unfortunately. I fear it will be a long time before we are free of those two superstitions.
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Weak arguments. Intelligent religious people probably are aware that there is probably no god but they are just too weak to survive without believing in some higher power. They feel vulnerable, naked and without some kind of comforting cocoon where to hide.
As a young and upcoming amateur boxer, many of my training partners say a prayer before a fight to have some kind of moral support, which is fine. But trying to impose that shit on other people by having such weak arguments is lame.
It’s 2017. Fuck your stupid Jesus stories.
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It’s 2018. Fuck your stupid Jesus stories.
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Kevin Tackles George Carlin…