“Evolution made the Earth”? are you sure about that?

The Bible is a collection of stories of how humans have come to terms with self-consciousness. Becoming aware of our own mortality must have been overwelhming. Creating a powerful being to watch over us was a logical coping mechanism. Some of the stories can be verified through archeaology, but not the parts about the angels and voices. Saying that is fact, in the modern world, is not helpful. It diminishes the rest of the Bible, the parts we could have a real conversation about like, “thou shalt not kill”, what’s that all about, let’s talk.

Religion is evolving, it always has been, but since we are using 2000 year old scripts, it seems to be a bit behind the curve at the moment. As George Carlin pointed out, The Three Little Pigs is a story with a message too. Not a very sophisticated one. We know that there aren’t talking pigs, but we still tell our kids this story and talk about the message. Jesus told the story (or the Bible tells the story of a guy named Jesus telling a story) of the slaves who were given talents (money). We can use that story today to start a discussion about investing with a consciousness.

I’d rather do that than attempt to defend something that might have made sense 3,000 years ago, but just doesn’t work today.

In my eyes it is he who is missing out, and that just makes me frustrated.

The universe makes perfect sense if you investigate the right resources. Evolution of species, and loosely using the term evolution here, of galaxies makes perfect sense if you are taught.

Atheists are self taught really, you don’t get training at school for ‘how the universe works’, but it’s out there.

I’m on the side that the big bang is nothing more than a white hole. There should be plenty of these born from our universe, so I believe we are but one of many universes, occasionally interacting when unimaginable amounts of matter come together.

I’m also aware that my awareness changes over time, and I might have a different thought process of how it all works, but this will have nothing to do with what is available as knowledge now or 2000 years ago *have to laugh, sorry*, it will be from the information I gather in the future, by other people with more expertise than I.

I fuckin’ love life.

And why should I have to explain why I don’t believe in the christian God? Why don’t you believe in Thor, Zeus, Allah and the Invisible Pink Unicorn?

I am not the one who needs to deliver proof, you are the one who needs to prove, depite vast ammounts of evidence to the contrary, that there in fact is, or is a need for, the christian God. The same goes for the divinity of Jesus and.

At least a good part of the reason we disagree with you is because there are many personal assumptions in your statements like the one above, and those won’t get you anywhere in what is supposed to be an objective argument. Starting with, “Either earth created itself or there is a God who created it,” I’m going to assume you meant “universe” instead of earth, because if not then this is to simple to even respond to. Even if you meant universe, though, the alternatives are either self-creation or God? How about god, which is to say a god, some other god, many gods? If you ask where they came from I simply say the same place as your God. How about a force we typically call “nature,” or the Force? Perhaps God is just a name for some abstract creative energy? Or what about the eternal existence of the universe? I have yet to see a better way of proving or denying it than any proof of a creator, objectively speaking. To fix these problems we must reduce your argument to “either the universe was not made by something else or it was made by something else.” But that doesn’t say much of anything, and it’s not something we can really prove either way in any effective manner. I fail to see how a being such as your God is any more believable than any of my above alternatives. Just because he would be an explanation that seems to cover all the bases does not make it an argument for anything. There is such a thing as saying, “We cannot determine which it is with certainty.”

From there you go from not only God with a capital G but to the Christian God. How do you justify this?

Then you go to such things as Jesus’ being divine, and yet within your own religion people differ on these things. Why couldn’t God exist and Jesus not be divine (see: Arianism)?

Where then do these things come from that you have in your arguments? I would assume they are matters of personal belief and conviction. But if that is so, don’t expect them to override any one else’s personal beliefs/convictions, since they’re all on the same field.

There is a lot of evidence that the bible was manipulated to suit certain aims and make christianity more palatable to the gentiles (and eventually Romans) of the time.

And there ARE significant variances between the gospels regarding such critical points as Jesus’ ressurection. Given that the earliest of the gospels wasnt written down until about 35 years after Jesus’ death (having been passed on exclusively in the oral tradition until then) I think its fairly safe to say that the old ‘chinese whispers’ effect has come into play!

Sure, I believe that a man called Jesus lived back then, but I dont believe he was divine, nor do I take much of what the gospels say about him as even a marginally historical account of his life.

This verse tells us that God wants all of us to be saved. Even you. Regardless of what you’ve done. It also acknowledges that Jesus gave his life for you.

1 Timothy 2:3-6 This is good, and pleases God our Savior, [4] who wants all men to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. [5] For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, [6] who gave himself as a ransom for all men…

This tells us that it is only by God’s grace that we can be saved, not by our good works alone.

Ephesians 2:8-9 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith — and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God — not by works, so that no one can boast.

These verses all discuss the importance of accept Christ. They clearly tell us that just accepting God doesn’t result in salvation. We must accept Christ as our savior.
John 3:16-18, 36 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. [18] Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son….

John 14:6 Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.”

1 John 5:11-12 And this is the testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. [12] He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life.

As far as your second post goes, I see your point. Maybe the most humane way would be to use your power to straighten him out. The problem is that if you did this with him, you would take away his ability to make decisions and turn him into a robot. This is why God created us the way he did. He didn’t want to make little robots that can’t make any decisions on their own. He wants us to be able to make the decision to live for him.