This morning I discovered an online petition to censor images of the Prophet Mohammed on Wikipedia. Initially I thought Muslims were angry with Wikipedia having the Danish caricatures on their site, but to my surprise the petition was not aimed at those! It is instead aimed at a few historical depictions of Mohammed on this entry.
The petition’s creator claims that any depiction of the Prophet Muhammed is offensive, even if the creator was a Muslim himself. The petition has gathered over 100,000 signatures thus far and has received a fair share of media attention. You can read more about the petition here.
Wikipedia’s response was short and sweet. They simply stated, “Since Wikipedia is an encyclopedia with the goal of representing all topics from a neutral point of view, Wikipedia is not censored for the benefit of any particular group.”
I agree with this stance, as I’m sure many of you do. It is for that reason I have created an online petition to support Wikipedia on this matter and demand that the images stay put. I ask that you take a minute of your time and please sign this petition if you are against censorship. I also ask that you spread this petition far and wide. Place it on any forums and/or websites that are appropriate.
–gasmonso
Related posts:
- Hello, My Name Is Mohammed!
- Police Foil ‘Religion Of Peace’ Plot To Erase Cartoonist
- The Complete Works Of Charles Darwin Free Online
February 7th, 2008 at 6:01 pm
Fantastic
SO, PPERVERSELY I WONDER IF WE WILL SEE LOTS OF NEGATIVE COMMENTS WRITTEN BY THE PRO-FREE SPEECH/ANTI ISLAM BRIGADE all with the caps lock on? lol
one can only hope :D
February 7th, 2008 at 6:14 pm
Consider it signed when I can find the petition. We have been to the pub and drunk lotsa Fosters.
February 7th, 2008 at 6:21 pm
Oh ok, I know we have drunk lotsa Fosters but where is YOUR petition?
February 7th, 2008 at 7:00 pm
http://www.thepetitionsite.com/1/fight-islamic-pressure-to-censor-wikipedia
February 7th, 2008 at 9:41 pm
Signed and good. What the hell is wrong with people that they can’t stand a PICTURE, anyway? What is the specific quoting of the Koran that states that Mo cant’s be shown, and why? What’s the big fucking deal?
February 7th, 2008 at 9:59 pm
@Blasphemaster
I don’t really know the exact quote but they claim a picture creates an image of Mohammad on people’s mind and people start worshiping the image rather than his teaching.
According to me, it doesn’t sound ridiculous at all but still it should be left on individuals to decide rather than shoving their ideas on other people who think Muhammad as barbaric and pedophile.
@Gosmonso
I think you have forgotten to put the link at end of second paragraph for petition by muslims or you don’t want to part of the effort by letting other people know about it.
February 7th, 2008 at 11:35 pm
@smiling face:
You are correct my good sir ;) I have fixed the missing link :)
February 8th, 2008 at 12:57 am
Its actually an Old testament (10 commandments) thing - the Jews dont have any ‘graven images’ either, but islam being islam, muslims tend to get a bit shirty about it, and thats the issue here.
Christianity (and catholicism/orthodox) and all of its imagery/icons seem to be at direct odds with the 10 commandments…
February 8th, 2008 at 3:39 am
I wonder if they are more offended by a muhammed image or goatse… The look on their face would almost be worth the deadliness of it.
February 8th, 2008 at 8:58 am
I suggest a composite of both to find out ;)
February 8th, 2008 at 1:05 pm
What interests me is that there is obvious middle ground on the issue and a bunch of people making it an extremist issue. Dig deeper.
February 8th, 2008 at 4:18 pm
This is one of the reasons I dispise Islam. Hey, jackass bomb head, I will look at what I want. You can go grovel in the dust 5 times a day and leave me the heck alone.
February 8th, 2008 at 5:03 pm
in the name of God, the all merciful the compasionate
firstly to understand why one should not put up an image of the prophet they have to understand the qualities of him.
Muhammed is described as ‘the best of creations’ due to his pious nature and his pure soul (meaning he did not sin once). such a man with amzing qualities to rise against a society which he knew was corrupt and was more physically powerful than him. to succeed and to deliver the beautiful message of islam. through our respect we prefer not to make an mage of him. it is not relevent and how can we get it accurate, before you know it people will abuse this and represtent him negatively (for example the cartoons that were drawn which got the muslim community angry).
a bit off topic but please ppl please find it in your heart to understand that not all muslims are bad people. there is a minority who actually follow their religion correctly.
my lord is merciful..
February 8th, 2008 at 5:23 pm
muslim boy, what you fail to understand is it’s YOUR religion that tells YOU not to illustrate your prophet. It means absolutely nothing to any of the rest of us, so I can draw and say whatever the hell I want.
February 8th, 2008 at 6:49 pm
Muslimboy:
“Muhammed is described as ‘the best of creations’ due to his pious nature and his pure soul (meaning he did not sin once).”
He stoned a woman to death because she had sex as a widow. The woman had at least one child under 1 year. I call that murder.
muslimboy:
“such a man with amzing qualities to rise against a society which he knew was corrupt and was more physically powerful than him.”
Is it an amazing quality to own slaves muslimboy? yes or no.
Is it an amazing quality to kill unarmed prisoners? yes or no.
February 8th, 2008 at 7:07 pm
What I would like to know is which of the images on wikipedia is the forbidden image? All of them cannot be images of Mohammed as those do not look alike.
I might be willing to accept the removal of that image but calling for a blanket removal of all images which are assumed to depict Mohammed is silly.
If that is what all muslims want then they also have to accept some eradications which are decided by non-muslims, say beards or even praying?
So, which is the true image of Mohammed that all muslims accept? If there is no agreement then it is better to leave the images as they are, they clearly are not depicting mohammed, neh?
February 8th, 2008 at 7:11 pm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Maome.jpg
This is the one they’re bitching about now. The funny thing is the illustrator was a well-known and respected muslim during his time.
February 8th, 2008 at 9:56 pm
Like hell that represents anyone at all. Two of the figures in that image might as well be clones.
February 9th, 2008 at 7:48 am
Their excessive reverence for the prophet, images or not, amounts to idolatry anyway.
This is one problem when moderate Muslims try to argue, on the killing of hostages or the underage wife thing, that it is unreasonable to project modern attitudes on 9th century history. Fair enough, but their reverence also makes it hard to believe they are truly prepared to doubt the prophet’s exact words or behaviour on anything.
The other even more obvious problem is that since their whole religion is based on following 9th century practices why should we believe the less desirable ones are an exception?
February 9th, 2008 at 8:23 pm
http://www.taz.de/blogs/wp-inst/wp-content/blogs.dir/44/files/2006/11/LEGO%20Mohammed.jpg
Lego Mohammed!
February 10th, 2008 at 7:11 am
“in the name of allah, the all glorious, the merciful”
you have freewill to do as u please, u can do what u want, but as muslims we find it disrespectful to illistrate him because we dont know how he looks like and neither do not want ppl to think that was how he looked like.
@corso
he stonedd a woman? im sorry were u there to say that? muhammed had mercy and compasion. wen he introduced the idea of their being one god to the meccans who were indeed idol worshipers, they would stone him. i would like to know why u say that and who told u, there are things in this world we like to call lies and that was one of them.
Muhammed was known for his mercy towards others. this is one factor which helped him succeed in delivering the message of uislam. we have many ignorant and idiotic muslims out there so dont just label and stereotype, because were not all like that.
there will be a time where the true muslims who do not terrorise and use their religion as an excuse to kill innoccent people, will be a small minority.
“A numerous company from among the first”(13:56)
“And a few from among the latter” (14:56)
i hate the way you are twisting the truth, if u have studied islamic history u will find Muhammed was merciful towards the unarmed. when the won the battle of badr, he gave them their freedom. infact if you have studied the tragedy of karbala, whereby hussain the grandson of muhammed was slaughtered and martyred as he rose against his oppressor with only an army of 72 men. his message ensured that people understood the true islam of his grandfather, because this tyrant yazid was not the rightful ruler at the time and he was the great grandson of ubu sufyan who led the army against muhammed at badr. so this yazid who claimed he was the rightful leader of the muslim ummah, was confronted by muhammeds grandaughter zainab who played the vital role of spreading the message of hussains martydom and sad to him
“Oh Yazid! Do you think that by making us prisoners in such a way that we are being taken from one place to another in humiliation - do you think that by this you have humiliated us in the sight of Allah and have earned respect for yourself?! This apparent success of yours is the result of grandeur of your might and lofty status for which you are proud…. You feel that you have conquered the whole world and your affairs are organised and that our domain is now under you control… And are you forgetting that Allah has said: “Surely those who have bought unbelief at the price of faith shall do no harm at all to Allah, and they shall have a painful chastisement”. (Quran 3:177)”
“Is it justice, O son of the freed slaves!, that you provide your ladies and slave-girls with hijab, whereas the daughters of the Messenger of God are held prisoners? You have insulted them by taking away the covers; you have exposed their faces to the enemies — from one city to another. Everyone irrespective of his high or low status stares at their faces. These ladies do not have their gents or protectors with them.”
keyword: freed slaves
look u dont have to be against islams teachings. there are people who claim to be muslims but truely they are not because of their bad actions towards humanity,
“and of the people who say : we believe in allah, and we believe in the final day; yet not at all are they believers” (8:2)
god is allknowing and all merciful, he is the best of judges
on the day of judgement justice will be prevailed.
February 10th, 2008 at 9:10 am
Muslimboy:
“he stonedd a woman? im sorry were u there to say that? muhammed had mercy and compasion.”
Obviously I was not there and neither were you when he acted merciful and compassionate – but here is my muslim source:
Book 017, Number 4206:
‘Abdullah b. Buraida reported on the authority of his father that Ma’iz b. Malik al-Aslami came to Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) and said: Allah’s Messenger, I have wronged myself; I have committed adultery and I earnestly desire that you should purify me. He turned him away. On the following day, he (Ma’iz) again came to him and said: Allah’s Messenger, I have committed adultery. Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) turned him away for the second time, and sent him to his people saying: Do you know if there is anything wrong with his mind. They denied of any such thing in him and said: We do not know him but as a wise good man among us, so far as we can judge. He (Ma’iz) came for the third time, and he (the Holy Prophet) sent him as he had done before. He asked about him and they informed him that there was nothing wrong with him or with his mind. When it was the fourth time, a ditch was dug for him and he (the Holy Prophet) pronounced judg- ment about him and he wis stoned. He (the narrator) said: There came to him (the Holy Prophet) a woman from Ghamid and said: Allah’s Messenger, I have committed adultery, so purify me. He (the Holy Prophet) turned her away. On the following day she said: Allah’s Messenger, Why do you turn me away? Perhaps, you turn me away as you turned away Ma’iz. By Allah, I have become pregnant. He said: Well, if you insist upon it, then go away until you give birth to (the child). When she was delivered she came with the child (wrapped) in a rag and said: Here is the child whom I have given birth to. He said: Go away and suckle him until you wean him. When she had weaned him, she came to him (the Holy Prophet) with the child who was holding a piece of bread in his hand. She said: Allah’s Apostle, here is he as I have weaned him and he eats food. He (the Holy Prophet) entrusted the child to one of the Muslims and then pronounced punishment. And she was put in a ditch up to her chest and he commanded people and they stoned her. Khalid b Walid came forward with a stone which he flung at her head and there spurted blood on the face of Khalid and so he abused her. Allah’s Apostle (may peace be upon him) heard his (Khalid’s) curse that he had huried upon her. Thereupon he (the Holy Prophet) said: Khalid, be gentle. By Him in Whose Hand is my life, she has made such a repentance that even if a wrongful tax-collector were to repent, he would have been forgiven. Then giving command regarding her, he prayed over her and she was buried.
Muslimboy:
“there are things in this world we like to call lies and that was one of them.”
Perhaps you should study the roots of your religion i bit deeper?
Muslimboy:
“i hate the way you are twisting the truth, if u have studied islamic history u will find Muhammed was merciful towards the unarmed. when the won the battle of badr, he gave them their freedom.”
You may hate it but I believe in not forgetting the innocent victims of the past.
The Banu Qurayza tribe surrendered to Muhammed in 627 and all male adults were beheaded on your prophets command. Warleaders were hanged after world war II for similar crimes.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banu_Qurayza
Muslimboy:
“And are you forgetting that Allah has said: “Surely those who have bought unbelief at the price of faith shall do no harm at all to Allah, and they shall have a painful chastisement”. (Quran 3:177)”
Ah yes the threat of violence. Typically Muhammed and typically cult-leader behaviour. No religion has more threats of hellfire than Muhammeds cult – and if those threats didn’t work you could of course always assasinate or execute people which Muhammed also did.
Muslimboy:
“look u dont have to be against islams teachings. there are people who claim to be muslims but truely they are not because of their bad actions towards humanity,”
How do you know your understanding of Islam is the correct one? Perhaps Muhammed if he were alive today would disagree with you what jihad means and how to treat other people? Remember Muhammed both waged war and kept slaves.
Muslimboy:
“god is allknowing and all merciful, he is the best of judges”
I have never stolen from any one, never used violence, I love my wife and kid and treat them well. As an atheist and non-muslim do I deserve hellfire for all eternity?
Yes or no?
February 10th, 2008 at 12:37 pm
in the name of allah, the mall merciful the compasionate
if what u say about yourself is true then surely not. God is all knowing and only he can judge u.
basically, i am a shia muslim. i have studied islam and understood that shia is the correct way. many hadiths and stories about the prophet are lies. at the tiem of muawia, he would pay ppl to write fake ‘hadiths’ regarding the prophet to elavate his own (muawia) status and make ali hated. he literally brainwashed the people of syria into hating ali.
i am not agreeing with what terrorists are doing these days. infact, u are probably right. if muhammed was to be here today he probably would disagree. but we have freewill. we can choose what to do. and theerfore by doing bad (i.e commiting a sin) it is only fair for god to punish us.
it is a pretty ahrd job for me to go around telling ppl about ‘true’ islam. islam whereby we practice what we preach. most muslims these days are probably hypocrites. but only god is all knowing.
February 10th, 2008 at 12:51 pm
in the name of wolverine, the all adamantium the berserker.
“i have studied islam and understood that shia is the correct way.”
So thats it? it’s the only way anyone should ever lead their life?
“most muslims these days are probably hypocrites.”
If you can acknowledge that, then you have to acknowledge that the universe would be better off without islam.
February 10th, 2008 at 2:23 pm
In the name of Santa Claus, the all generous the giving (sorry couldn’t resist)
Muslimboy:
“if what u say about yourself is true then surely not.”
Thanks a lot :) ..So what you say is that the Quran is wrong and unjust?
“Disbelievers will be burned with fire” 2:39, 90
“If you believe in only part of the Scripture, you will suffer in this life and go to hell in the next” 2:85
“For disbelievers is a painful doom” 2:104
“For unbelievers: ignominy in this world, an awful doom in the next” 2:114
“Allah will leave the disbelievers alone for a while, but then he will compel them to the doom of Fire” 2:126
One thing is to disregard parts of the hadith as fake because they show a bad image of your prophet, but you can’t say the holy Quran is wrong since it is written in heaven and eternal.
I am surely going to burn for eternity along with my family, friends and my little daughter by a creature you consider just, fair and merciful.
“Those who die in their disbelief will burn forever in the Fire” 2:217
Muslimboy:
“infact, u are probably right. if muhammed was to be here today he probably would disagree. but we have freewill. we can choose what to do”
I aggree. If only all muslims shared your view on that.
Muslimboy:
“it is a pretty ahrd job for me to go around telling ppl about ‘true’ islam.”
Then you should try being an atheist in a insane religious world ;)
February 10th, 2008 at 11:10 pm
In the name of Lowenbrau, all tasty, all intoxixating:
BEER ME!
*burp*
obviously muslimboy is either a non-muslim troll, or yet another Muslim who never bothered to read his own “holy book”, for which we should probably grateful. if he followed the koran to the letter he’d be traipsing around slitting throats and murdering widows with cinder blocks. But as such he should know that by being loving and peaceful, he’s not being a good muslim, he’s just being a good person, and the two are simply incompatible.
February 11th, 2008 at 11:28 am
Perfectly true there are plenty of decent Muslims, people are mainly determined by their own natures and pick and choose what suits them. The peaceful nature of Christ’s message did not prevent the Inquisition or the other awful things done in Christianity’s name, so why would the less palatable parts of the Qu’ran (or some interpretations of it) necessarily make all who follow it extremists?
Nevetheless, one would have to be a fool to disregard what the source of any political movement says. If The Marxist Party asked for your vote, insisting it had adopted free enterprise, would you ignore what it said in Das Kapital? Of course not.
Islamic terrorism may prove to be a passing phase, the real threat is moderate Islam, because Islam will not accept separation of religion and state, because there is nothing in subjection to the will of Allah that is compatible with individual freedom, nothing in having laws based on the teachings of a 9th century figure that is compatible with democracy, and nothing in a state governed by Islamic principles that can give an equal say to non Muslims. When moderate Muslims talk of democracy, freedom and tolerance their meaning is not as understood by the rest of us.
But at least moderate Islam will not give us beheadings and stonings, some may say. How do they know? Given a choice, many moderate Muslims will choose Islamic law above true democracy. Can we gaurantee the sort of society we get when the leaders have acheived their goals and are free to show their true colours?
February 11th, 2008 at 2:11 pm
“In the name of allah, the all merciful, the compasionate”
@ corso
this is gonna sound so stupid, but i thought u sed u were a ‘theist and non-muslim’. since your an athiest and u are aware of islamic teachings, then only god can judge u. i cannot say because i do not know u. u seem like a good person but u fail to accept there is an ultimate cause despite understanding other religions.
no ofcorse shia islam is not the only way, it is simply the choice that i ahve made after studying. my lord is all merciful and compasioante and only he can judge.
religion is a way of life, it is simply a guidline on the ‘ideal’ way to live. but what i dont understand from u athiests is how u can believe ur creation was accidental and that after this world thats it and that this life has no purpose. surely morality would not exist if mankind’s nature was to make the most of now because ther is nothing to follow. this quran is ever glorious. it truely is a miracle to have survived thousands of years and to be so amazingly perfect. there are many references in there that are proven then surely what it says about an afterlife is true as well?
this Quran is the word of God. even when a prophet is speaking God says ‘QUL’ (say).
u athiests are intelligent people, but science cant solve all your problems. you have to have order in your lives and at least acknowledge that you were created by purpose.
i would like to make it clear, i do not accept what these terrorist are doing these days. i do not agree with their actions of killing innocent people and brainwashing others into believing what they are doing is right. worst of all, this is all done under the name of Islam.
true islam preaches peace and respect towards others. i value you even as athiests as good people. people worthy of living. for u, u have freewill and have the ability to believe in god or not. my duty is to explain true islam adn it is only God himself, after we die who will bring justice to all those criminals who have got away, all those murderers who have escaped justice and even those so called muslims who slaughter innocent human beings.
the quran is correct. non believers will be punished. but according to what they did and what they knew.
February 11th, 2008 at 3:39 pm
Wow, you are just so far off the actual answer, you’re not even wrong.
the quran is correct.
Prove it.
Who ever that was our nature? I’ve always ensured that everything will be great now, as well as in the future. And the best way to do that is to follow the laws we all agreed on, take care of each other and be a good person. No devine intervention needed.
As for creation? You have no idea how horribly contrieved and erroneous the human body is, do you? spontaneous infections, apendicites, auto-immune diseases, prone to overfeeding, needs far to complex a diet, etc etc. I could design a better human with my eyes closed.
Same with Lord of the Rings, but you don’t take that as your holy book now do you?
Nooo, YOU need a higher purpose because you are to weak to realise the universe really isn’t about you, and that you play such a minor and fleeting part in it. You need help to avoid the fact that the isn’t any reason for you to be here, and you can’t cope with it.
Nobody will. Unfair isn’t it? You live all your life doing good, and someone else is a murdereous rapist and we all end up the same.
Yeah, that is unfair, but guess what? the universe is unfair. Deal with it, or continue to live in denail, your choice.
February 11th, 2008 at 4:14 pm
Damn college and it’s “classes”, you beat me to it alcari. I couldnt have said it better….except:
“Same with Lord of the Rings, but you don’t take that as your holy book now do you?”
Don’t you ever EVER sully the magnitude and beauty that is Gimli, unless you are ready to get a battleaxe in the crotch.
February 11th, 2008 at 4:27 pm
heres a theist vs athiest debate if anyone is interested
may allah bless u all
February 11th, 2008 at 4:28 pm
forgot eh link lol
http://www.shiasource.com/community/community_events/1/
February 11th, 2008 at 6:29 pm
Muslim bot:
“surely morality would not exist if mankind’s nature was to make the most of now because ther is nothing to follow”
This is gold!
Muslim boy, how about looking at it the other way - because of your belief in a non-existent afterlife, your actions in the one life you have are dominated by this belief to your detriment? Like suicide bombers who kill themselves (and many innocent people) in order to get to heaven!
Or the evangelical christians who refuse to do anything about global warming because the rapture and Jesus’ return is more important - so all the while we are slowly poisoning our planet that our children will still inhabit after we are long gone.
There were morals before the appearance of abrahamic faiths…
February 12th, 2008 at 4:42 pm
Muslimboy:
“but what i dont understand from u athiests is how u can believe ur creation was accidental and that after this world thats it and that this life has no purpose.”
I can fully understand how hard it must be to accept the idea of a universe without eternal life and purpose if you are not used to see it that way – but that doesn’t mean life in the universe has a purpose and that you are going to live forever.
As for myself I am VERY glad I’m not going to live forever and you would be too if you tried to sit down for 5 minutes and really think about eternity. Let me help you there with an old arabic story and try read it in order to understand it.
——
A bird landed on a mountain and scratched its peak on the top of that mountain for a few seconds, then it flew away. Next year it returned again and scratched its peak. Every year the bird returned. The time it takes for the bird to erode the mountain away with this scratching is a second of eternity.
——
Try think about it – eternity - can you live with yourself for so long? For me that would be the worst fate ever. I would go mad if I knew I was going to live forever.
And yet we meet religious people on this site who say things like “I am glad you are going to burn forever”. Last time I heard it, a muslim said it. I would not even want that fate for Hitler or Stalin. No crime can possibly make such a punishment fair and yet I hear you say:
Muslimboy:
“my lord is all merciful and compasioante and only he can judge.”
“the quran is correct. non believers will be punished. but according to what they did and what they knew.”
And the Quran say:
“Those who die in their disbelief will burn forever in the Fire” 2:217
Can you see now how insane it all is Muslimboy? Do you finally understand?
February 12th, 2008 at 5:56 pm
in the name of allah, the all merciful the compasionate
God has deemed us worthy of existing despite us not doing anything to deserve to live. through his infinate mercy, god has blesssed us with so many blessings that we are not capable of even returning ‘the favour’. the least we can do is obay his commands and refrain from what he has told us to be a sin. its not about ‘what bad’ will this ’sin’ bring to me, but rather ‘what good’ is it bringing to me.
there must be an ultimate cause. a force more stronger than me and you. a force where we cannot even imagine the power it has. you dont even have to call it god. just understand that your creation has a purpose and you were not an accident.
religion is a guidline for how we should live our lives. it does not limit our freedom. we have freewill. but religion, is even present in man’s own instimct whereby morality is established. i am still young. i have my whole life ahead of me. i wish to study my religion in more death and unwravell its true beauty.
not only to i have to argue in existence of a ‘creator’ but also show the people that islam is not about what these terrorists are doing today. the word islam in its self means peace. islam teaches us to value all of mankind.
“surely your brotherhood is one brotherhood, and i am your lord so worship me”
‘If a person is not your brother in religion, then he is your equal in humanity’- prophet muhammed (pbuh)
i respect you corso, for at least looking at what i ahve to say. it is in your power to believe in what yiu want, but at least be grateful for your existence. understand, that you were created out of mercy and not out of vain.
how can the quran be wrong? so many of the things in it are so scientifically accurate.
“Surely Allah causes the grain and the stone to germinate; he brings forth the living from the dead and he is the bringer forth of the dead from the living; that is Allah! how are you then turned away? (95:6)
“And he it is who has amde the stars for you that you might follow the right way thereby in the darkness of the land and the sea; truely we have made plain the communications for people who know” (97:6)
have a look at that link i sent earlier, it is a theis vs athiest debate. its like an hour long i think but its worth it :)
February 12th, 2008 at 6:32 pm
Soo I take it you didn’t sit down for 5 minutes and think about what eterny really mean :)
Unfortunately you also avoided the main point of my reply. The fact that no crime makes eternal pain a fair punishment - and far from merciful.
“how can the quran be wrong? so many of the things in it are so scientifically accurate.”
I have passages from the Quran that show Muhammed didn’t know everything about science so ould you give examples of knowledge no man 1400 years could know about? like the number of planets, galaxies, earth orbiting sun?, the stars true nature? etc..
Remember a greek philosopher discovered the atom about 2.500 years ago without the help of an angel with a book - so your prophet has some hard competition there :)
February 12th, 2008 at 6:38 pm
“its not about ‘what bad’ will this ’sin’ bring to me, but rather ‘what good’ is it bringing to me.”
We are the most advanced form of intelligent life on this planet, yet so many humans need a reward system to not go apeshit all over the place, pathetic.
“there must be an ultimate cause.”
No, you must be too self-conscious to accept that you may not have been created individually by some god on high.
“it does not limit our freedom.”
Actually most religions(yours is included) were created to control and pacify the masses.
“how can the quran be wrong? so many of the things in it are so scientifically accurate.”
Really? you got any quotes that can’t be taken in an infinite number of different ways in any different situation by any different person?
February 13th, 2008 at 1:47 pm
it also says in your book not to print images of jesus no one alive today knows what they look like and how woudl you respond if some one drew a picture of jesus that had a bomb on his head or any where else. i think if you are going to say anything about a religion you should first RESEARCH IT!!!!!!!!!!!!
February 13th, 2008 at 2:08 pm
Our book?!? You’ve got the wrong people. Most of us are not Christian. I wouldn’t bat an eye at such a picture of Jesus.
Furthermore, the post isn’t really saying much about Islam per se, just something about the idiot responses of some of its adherents.
If your going to comment about a post on a website you should research it.
February 14th, 2008 at 5:49 am
just a quik note
above i meant to say study my religion in more ‘depth’ not death lol
February 14th, 2008 at 6:05 am
“IN the name of allah, the all meciful, the compasionate”
just be thankful that you exist and have the potential to be good or bad. the purpose of islam is to teach morality and to guide mankind to a correct way of living.
“There is no compulsion in religion; truely the right way has become clearly distinct from error…” (256:2)
“Say: what! shall i seek a lord other than allah? and he is the lord of all things; and no soul earns (evil) but against itself, and no bearer of burden shall bear the burden of another: then to your lord is your return, so he will inform you of that in which you differed.” (164: 6)
February 14th, 2008 at 6:05 pm
So Muslim boy
You seem a little quiet in your outrage toward your fellow muslims who plotted to murder one of the Danish cartoonists. Why is that?
Is it more of an offence to draw a portrait and ‘call’ it mohammed than it is to end someones life?
I think this is one of the things that bugs me about your hypocritical religion. You dont criticise those within your faith who behave this way, and your silence in effect means you condone it.
What i want to know is, why arent we hearing more on Al-Jazeera about moderate muslims around the globe up in arms about that plot, or the disgusting hate-inspiring childrens TV show? Is it because it is condoned by all muslims, or is there just no such thing as a moderate muslim? We get plenty of the nutters on this site threatening to slit our throats in the mohammed caricature entry, but sweet fuck-all elsewhere (unless its ‘Shia is not truel islam, Sunni is’ or vice versa).
February 14th, 2008 at 7:43 pm
Why? Explain this neccesity
So, not only did you not think before posting, you also didn’t read my previous post. I’m not going to explain why you are so horribly wrong again. Scroll up and read my previous post.
February 15th, 2008 at 12:28 pm
1+1 = 2;
The earth resolves around the sun.
A human starts as one cell, then develops into an embryo, then a fetus, then is born as a baby.
The sky is blue because of refraction.
Give Andrew $1,000,000 now or you will burn in hell forever.
The moon reflects the light from the sun.
A cat cannot breed with a dog.
How can this post be wrong? So many of the things in it are so scientifically accurate.
February 15th, 2008 at 12:42 pm
in the name of Allah, the e all-merciful, the compasionate
i am in no way agreeing with terrorism. freewill should exist, but when u know something is offensive u should refrain from doing it. this example is the whole, muhammed image thing. u do not have to do it, but by doing it yiou are disrespecting a religion.
“You dont criticise those within your faith who behave this way, and your silence in effect means you condone it.”
infact i do critisise it. it is wrong, and that is why i need to speak up to counter this negative image they are giving true islam.
there are plenty of good muslims out there who follow their religion without harming others. but then again, in most religions and societies u get corrupt people.
my aim is simply to ask u to not critisise the whole islamic ummah. every human being has his/her value, so please show some respect.
to god we belong, and to him we shall return…
February 15th, 2008 at 12:52 pm
“my aim is simply to ask u to not critisise the whole islamic ummah. every human being has his/her value, so please show some respect.”
No, your religion hasn’t done anything to earn my respect.
“but when u know something is offensive u should refrain from doing it.”
No, if you find something offensive then don’t be a part of it. You can’t impose your way of thinking on the entire world just because you have your idiotic dogma.
February 15th, 2008 at 1:20 pm
irishthunder, wen u see an injured person u do not go and injure them more,
there is no need
all i ask is to repect my religion, but u wish to use ur freewill and to do so. ther is nothing more i can do, but if u feel happy wen u do something to disrespect and annoy people then so be it.
just remember, u believe u were an accident and that u have no purpose in life. if u want to go and follow every desire you have even thou it may not benefit u, u can…
February 15th, 2008 at 1:33 pm
Andrew:
“1+1 = 2;
The earth resolves around the sun.
A human starts as one cell, then develops into an embryo, then a fetus, then is born as a baby.
The sky is blue because of refraction.
Give Andrew $1,000,000 now or you will burn in hell forever.
The moon reflects the light from the sun.
A cat cannot breed with a dog.
How can this post be wrong? So many of the things in it are so scientifically accurate.”
Thanks Andrew. That really saved my day :)
Let’s all hope for the sake of muslimboys young mind, that he actually learned something there.
February 15th, 2008 at 1:41 pm
muslimboy:
“u believe u were an accident and that u have no purpose in life. if u want to go and follow every desire you have even thou it may not benefit u, u can…”
Your religion is just one of litterally thousands of religions from past to present. There are nothing that proves it right and as such, it serves no purpose.
You are believing in an old book that says stars are objects protecting a flat earth against evil spirits.
that is not beneficial or definitely not healthy for your mind.
February 15th, 2008 at 1:42 pm
“In the name of allah, the all merciful, the compasionate”
are you so narrow minded that if you do not see something you will not believe in it? we cannot see atoms but we know they exist. How blind are you that you cannot see the ‘effect’ of God. God is the ultimate force, and his creations are the effect of him (hence he created them)
i am Intrigued by the way athiests think. they are clever in many senses, but they do not understand that science and religion can go together. science aint gonna solve all your problems. so stop stereotyping and a=understand that we are all unique.
often, athiest fear calling that surpreme force god. call it wehatever, just understand that you never created your self and an all powerforce did. that all powerful source is not human, because it created humans.
February 15th, 2008 at 2:09 pm
muslimboy:
“are you so narrow minded that if you do not see something you will not believe in it? we cannot see atoms but we know they exist. How blind are you that you cannot see the ‘effect’ of God.”
Atoms are a proven fact.
Now show me the proof that Muhammed was given information from an invisible angel which of course only Muhammed could see - and of course the “angel” supposedly told Muhammed that everybody should obey Muhammed himself or burn forever.
When Muhammed had married his wife number 4 and therefore could not marry anymore according to his own rules, he suddenly had a revelation and .. BIG surprise! .. Allah told Muhammed he could marry as many as he wanted :D
Would you believe me if I told you the same story? and why not?
Narrowminded you call me. At least I am not deeply naive.
February 15th, 2008 at 2:20 pm
can u please tell me wher u got this informattion from?
i research islam and i have never come across this issue, quite possibly it may be true but teher are rules for soomeone to marry more than once.
muhammed loved his first wife khadija more than any other woman, for she funded islam and was the mother of muhammed’s daughter zahra which symbolised the value of a daughter at the time im sure ur aware the arabs would kill their daughters. muhammed marriesother women only after khadija died.
i respect u as an intelligent person, but islam has its beauty u must understand.
February 15th, 2008 at 2:35 pm
“we cannot see atoms but we know they exist.”
Yes we can, those crazy scientists invented this devil-tool call a microscope, allowing them to actually LOOK at individual atoms.
“they are clever in many senses, but they do not understand that science and religion can go together.”
The two constantly clash, thats because different religions throughout history have made ridiculous claims that were proven false by science. Eventually enough of your quran will be proven wrong by science that no one will accept it as a viable religion in society. It’s happened before with many ancient religions.
“often, athiest fear calling that surpreme force god.”
I know exactly what to call the supreme force, it’s called the Strong Nuclear force, and there’s nothing in the Universe stronger. Don’t forget Electromagnetic, Weak Nuclear, and Gravitational forces.
February 15th, 2008 at 2:45 pm
whatever you say my freind, just live your life well and help those in needs. im sure as long as you do good deeds and have mercy, god will lighten your punishment.
but i must say, your arrogance and firm disbelief will not benefit you, i am blessed to understand the surpreme power of my lord.
it has been an honour debating with you lot
may god have mercy upon us all
February 15th, 2008 at 2:57 pm
oh and another thing, please let me know how you are able to see protons and neutrons and oh please do inform me on how electrons look like, do they have the ‘E’ printed on them or are they crosses or dots like in the science books…
February 15th, 2008 at 3:22 pm
Muslim boy, in regard to what electrons and protons “look” like, science does a very good job of explaining the characteristics of the particles you mention, as well as many other particles, even predicting the existence of many that were not previously known. What these particles “look like” is also kind of an inappropriate question if you have a basic understanding of modern physics. In regard to what particles “look like”, we actually understand how well, or how accurately, we can know the various characteristics of these particles in combination. This is all well tested and clearly demonsrated, at merely an undergraduate physics level. The quran does none of that explanation with any validity.
Furthermore, note that if even one error is shown in the quran, your whole religion falls apart. Numerous errors have been shown in the “science” of the quran. However hard it is for you to accept this, your religion should ultimately disappear in the face of this.
February 15th, 2008 at 3:22 pm
“can u please tell me wher u got this informattion from?
i research islam and i have never come across this issue, quite possibly it may be true but teher are rules for soomeone to marry more than once.”
Sure mate - no wonder you love your prophet. All your life you have only been told and read the nice stuff about him.
I got it from a book about Muhammeds life by Kaare Bluitgen “The Quran and the prophet Muhammeds life”.
You can also find it on the net for yourself. I just googled “muhammed revelation marry wifes”:
http://notendur.centrum.is/~snorrigb/hijab5.htm:
“After justifying Muhammed’s marriage with Zaynab, ‘Allah’ did the same to Muhammed’s matrimony to several women. Muhammed not only went further then the average Arab concerning his relationship with women, but he tried constantly to justify his acts by ‘revelations’ from ‘Allah’. The Koran allows Muslim men to have four wives, excluding concubines and slave women. Muhammed, on the other hand, married at least sixteen wives, in addition to concubines, and stayed married to nine of them until his death. ‘Allah’ made sure Muhammed would have a plenty of women to save him from celibacy, as he revealed:
Prophet, We have made lawful to you the wives to whom you have granted dowries and the slave-girls whom Allah has given you as booty; the daughters of your paternal and maternal uncles and of your paternal and maternal aunts who fled with you; and any believing woman who gives herself to the Prophet and whom the Prophet wishes to take in marriage. The privilege is yours alone, being granted to no other believer.28
This ‘revelation’ descended after Muhammed had married more than four wives. Muhammed did not ask ‘Allah’s’ permission he just followed his desires and conveniently had revelations to justify his acts. In the next verse ‘Allah’ sent down another revelation:
It shall be unlawful to you [Muhammed] to take more wives or to change your present wives for other women, though their beauty pleases you, except where slave-girls are concerned. Allah takes cognisance of all things.29″
February 15th, 2008 at 3:33 pm
Korga:
“Furthermore, note that if even one error is shown in the quran, your whole religion falls apart.”
That is true. Since it is supposedly written by the creator of the universe it can not have errors.
I will now destroy a religion.
Sura 18:36 “When he reached the setting place of the sun, he found it setting in a muddy spring and found a people thereabout. We said: ‘O Dhul-Qarneyn! Either punish or show them kindness”
Appearently Muhammed didn’t know it is in fact the earth that moves around the sun and not the other way around.
There you go muslimboy. Your religion just collapsed like the ancient egyptian, persian, roman, greek and nordic religions. You must now make a choice. Either you use this great opportunity and set your mind free and become an atheist or you find yourself another mythology.
February 16th, 2008 at 12:32 pm
im sorry corso, but i cant seem to find that verse.
what sura and wat ayah please?>
i am free, and i choose to follow islam. true islam, whereby i have a purpose in my life and i feel guilyt when commiting a crime becasue i know of the punishment that awaits me.
u have no evidence to prove muhammed was a ‘bad’ person. he struggled throughout his life for islam, after he died the calipha was stolen and the ummah was misguided.
however, there is a minority where the islam of muhammed was preserved. that is why you have the sunni-shia split. but even so we both believe in a creator.
you do not have to see god as a religious identity. just understand that there is a force which created you. a force that intentially created you and put purpose into your lives. a force that sent numerous prophets with miracles as evidence of their prophecy to guide mankind to the correct path.
that force is god, call it what you wish but it still exists.
my lord i ask of you to guide these athiests to ’siratin mustaqeem’ (correct path).
oh my lord, surely you are the all merciful the compasionate…
February 16th, 2008 at 1:52 pm
“u have no evidence to prove muhammed was a ‘bad’ person.”
How do you know my ancient arabic sources are false? Can you on the other hand prove that Muhammed was all good? Did not have any revelations that benefitted himself, did not own slaves? did not wage war and assassinated opponents? did not stone people to death?
“you do not have to see god as a religious identity. just understand that there is a force which created you. a force that intentially created you and put purpose into your lives.”
In a way I can aggree with you on that.
“a force that sent numerous prophets with miracles as evidence of their prophecy to guide mankind to the correct path.”
Okay there you lost me. When I look at muslim societies founded on Islam, I have a hard time imaging that an all knowing, all loving and most intelligent entity would consider that the “correct” path
- and why would the creator of the universe tell a single human things like slaves are half the value of free humans? that everybody who doesn’t believe will burn forever? and then leave it to that human to spread the word and never be heard from again for 1400 years.
“my lord i ask of you to guide these athiests to ’siratin mustaqeem’ (correct path).
oh my lord, surely you are the all merciful the compasionate…”
And I ask of you to think for yourself about all the things you have been told on this website. This is your chance to free your mind - don’t worry we won’t tell your family if you join us :)
February 16th, 2008 at 2:09 pm
i have many freinds who are athiests,
however they are pretty ignorant wen we debate.
they say ‘we dont know….’
and i believe u dont either.can u giv me a 100% accurate answer to how this life was created without any supreme force?
corso, i respect you and i its been an honour understanding your beliefs, but try to live your life without critising the ‘good muslims’ who dont go killing innocent people and use their religion as an excuse to commit crimes.
some of us are good people who help the poor and do other good stuff…
i have no intention whatsoever to force anyone to convert, my aim, simply, is to put my beliefs across and understand yours
i think athiests are clever people, but slightly ignorant. if you created something then surely you would want it to thank u.
did anyone even bother to visit that link i sent?
and what about the design and causation arguement? is science wrong there as well?
i am a muslim out of my own freewill, islam is ever beautiful and the correctway of it is indeed a benifit to mankind.
god bless you all :)
February 17th, 2008 at 2:56 pm
“can u giv me a 100% accurate answer to how this life was created without any supreme force?”
nope, but I can give several great theories, and in ten years, I might be able to give you a perfect example.
“try to live your life without critising the ‘good muslims’ who dont go killing innocent people and use their religion as an excuse to commit crimes.
some of us are good people who help the poor and do other good stuff…”
Yes, most of us atheists do the exact same thing. However, we don’t indoctrinate our children to believe in a fictional deity who sends you to eternal punishment, even if you live a good and moral life.
“i think athiests are clever people, but slightly ignorant. if you created something then surely you would want it to thank u.”
Personally, I think all religious people are naive and ignorant. The can be intelligent in other fields though.
I create many thing, and I demand no worship from any of them. Even if I were to create a society of sentient beings, I would take more pleasure in them treating eachother well and improving themselves, then in their groveling at my feet.
“did anyone even bother to visit that link i sent?
and what about the design and causation arguement? is science wrong there as well?
What link? What causation argument do you mean? that every effect must have a cause? The one your deity violates, but which is perfectly fulfilled by the big-bang theory?
February 17th, 2008 at 4:06 pm
http://www.shiasource.com/community/community_events/1/
there it is mate :)
February 17th, 2008 at 4:24 pm
yh but what triggered the big bang? surely if it is what u describe as the ‘ultimate cause’ then that is what us theists bekliev is the power of god. see religiona nd science can go together?
February 17th, 2008 at 4:24 pm
that ? at the end is meant to be a :)
February 17th, 2008 at 5:35 pm
“see religiona nd science can go together?”
Then how do you explain all the claims made in religious texts(your’s included) that are proven COMPLETELY unfounded and false?
February 18th, 2008 at 6:12 am
IF U were alive at the time of muhammed (s) you would have seen the miracles he had performed and understood that the holy quaran is the only holy book whereby god is the central figure. for example, in the torah and the bible it is the word of other men. even in the holy quaran it is clear allah is the speaker because so many times he commands the prophets or people to say.
‘Qul’-Say…..
the quaran is ever glorious that it has survived til this very day, untouched and unchanged. a christian man once approached me and began praising this quran. he was african and was telling me how the ‘white’ men in his country began changing the bible and writing things that would benefit them. he said how they would write that black people are meant to be slaves and how white peopel are the surpremee race. this obviously ids not true. he praised the quaran for being able to be untouched and survive til this very day.
i cannot answer all the religious claims. but because so many of them are proven it is only logical to trust what the rest says about there being a day of judgement and a god.
check out that link, its an athiest vs theist debate. its quite long but very interesting.
February 18th, 2008 at 6:30 am
Hmm, that’s a rather complex piece of physics. A short answer then, without any deep and complex explanation of why.
Nothing that happened before the big bang can influence the events after the big bang. It is impossible to know what triggered the big bang.
of course you’re free believe to it’s some kind of extra-logical deity, but it might just as well be a million other things. Besides, the only religion somewhat compatible with the real world is deism, not Islam, christianity or any other inteventionist religion.
February 18th, 2008 at 10:10 am
Hello all
Has anyone noticed how many Muslems have voted to keep the images on Wiki, yet their comments say otherwise. I guess they don’t understand how a petition works.
Ah well… if there is a God, or Gods, they must be rolling around the floor laughing at the way us humans act.
I hope we don’t have the best part of a thousands years of religion based, localised slaughter that the Christian church subjected humanity to, with the Muslem religions. Pray (cough, cough) that Muslems grow up quicker than Christians.
Muslemboy… just how many virgins does a Muslem suicide bomber get? Isn’t any form of suicide a sin? Martyrdom, I believe, comes from being killed for your faith, not killing your self. Why doesn’t Al Jazeera inform the muslem peoples that these fanatics are not actually Muslems and to denounce them to their local authorities? I think someone already asked this, but I don’t remember and answer.
Scaith
Perth, Australia.
February 18th, 2008 at 11:00 am
SCAITH,
I DONT BELIEVE IN WHAT TERRORISTS ARE DOUING. I THINK ITS wrong. YOUVE DONE THE ONE THING I DIDNT WANT YOU TO DO, AND THATS TO STEREOTYPE. NOT ALL MUSLIMS ARE BAD PEOPLE. YOU ARE RIGHT ABOUT MARTYDOM THOUGH. its the cause that makes the martyr. it depends what you aer fighting for and what you are defending.
a good example is the battle of karbala, where hussain, the son of ali sacrificed everything he had for the sake of ‘true’ islam. research it if you can, hussayns message was universal. it is not just for muslims :)
may god bless u all
February 18th, 2008 at 3:06 pm
Hello Muslemboy
Yes, a stereotype, but it’s all the average Joe in the western world gets to hear. There are something like a billion Muslems in the world and all the world hears from is a few thousands of fanatics that are supposed to be followers of the Prophet. I see you have used all caps to stress your message. Lets hear from you and the billion other Muslems rant and rave about these fake Muslems instead of babbling on about a bunch on pictures that were mostly the creation of Muslems. Lets see 222,000 plus Muslems that signed the other petition starting and signing petitions against these extreamists and not using crap excuses about being victimised by the yank”s and isreali’s. The rest of the world’s average people are sick of it.
February 18th, 2008 at 3:19 pm
wooow, dont get the israeli issue into it.
i agree with what you are saying, but what the israelis are doingis wrong. they are murdering innocent womena dnchildren adn occupying land which is not theres.
a man once asked me ‘is mecca and medina not enough for you muslims’
i replied to him, “if you have 3 houses, but someone breaks into it and claims its theres because you have another two, is that ok? it is the principle that counts. roughly 50 years ago the palestinians were living on that land. but with support, ‘israel’ was formed. people were moved out by force and the jews around thw world settled in and created their country on the muslim land. how is this acceptable?”
however, what these terrorists are doing in the western world is wrong. and worse of all it all is being done under the banner and name of islam. it is understandable, why so many people hate us muslims. because these terrorists go and do all this damage to our name and expect people to think islam is peacful.
my lord is indeed merciful…
February 18th, 2008 at 3:42 pm
Hi Muslemboy
The israeli’s didn’t settle on Muslem land. They settled on Palestinian land. If people stop shooting at them and saying they don’t have a right to exist, I’m sure they’ll stop shooting too. What terrorists are doing all over the world is bad, from Bagdad to timbuktoo. I know that some countries are being occupied and that sometimes it’s for the good, and some times it’s not. The British in Ireland in 1166-2008 and the Americans in Iraq right now, for example Thats not unique to Muslem countries and has been going on for ever.
Anyway… are you going to get every true follower of Islam you know to stop babbling on about a few pictures and start protesting about how these fake Muslems are destroying your religion? You didn’t mention anything about that part of my post.
February 18th, 2008 at 3:53 pm
my dear friend,
is it too much too ask of ppl to refrain from putting up these images? the everyone is happy.
at a fundemental level, we believe in muhammed as a prophet, theerfore a representative of what god wants us to know. we respect him and theerfroe should not use images of him as a sign of respect. we do not want his images to be subject of mockery and that is the most important reason why we do not want his images up.
and palestinians are muslims. and that earth is holy to us just as it is to the jews and christians. what good is it if they simply ’stop shooting’. that is not enough, the palestinians have lost their homeland, to these people. how many more innocent humans have to die before people realise its the israelis whoa re terrorising the palestinians. the palestinians dont even have a proper police force or army force. most of what they are allowed is up to the israelis.
is that democracy my friend, whereby the jews are sitting in there luxurious homes and these poor palestinians are suffereing?
the israelis have no mercy, they kill even the unarmed and beat the elderly. i have seen this wityh my own eyes my friend.
all due repect, but israel cant expect to steal the land and for the islamic ummah to find it acceptable.
February 18th, 2008 at 4:07 pm
From my last post..
“Anyway… are you going to get every true follower of Islam you know to stop babbling on about a few pictures and start protesting about how these fake Muslems are destroying your religion? You didn’t mention anything about that part of my post.”
The pictures are not killing anyone! Please get Muslem’s to get their priorities right.
I tell you what, you get all your buddies to protest how these fake Muslems are destroying your religion and I’ll add my name to the petition to get rid of the pictures on Wiki.
February 18th, 2008 at 4:17 pm
Muslimboy:
“i have many freinds who are athiests,
however they are pretty ignorant wen we debate.
they say ‘we dont know….’”
As Socrates said “”The only true wisdom is in knowing you know nothing”.
If I said a little troll in my backyard told me what the meaning of life is, would that make you more ignorant than me? Of course not and yet you call us ignorant despite the fact that your “knowledge” comes from a medieval man with questionable morale that claimed he got his information from an invisible angel only he could see. That doesn’t make us ignorant compared to you – far from it.
By the way did you even know Muhammed owned slaves when you started debating here?
Muslimboy:
“can u giv me a 100% accurate answer to how this life was created without any supreme force?”
Let’s first take a look at what the Quran says.
Sura 38:71 “Your Lord said to the angels “I am creating a human being from clay.”
This was not something Muhammed came up with himself. He was most probably inspired by ancients myths. The babylonian mother goddess Enki created man from clay because the gods wanted servents. The old Testament tells how Adam was made from clay. Also the egyptian ram-headed god Khnum made people from clay. You also find the clay myths in mayan and chinese mythology. Not a wonder really considering how important clay was in ancient times and what it was used for.
So to answer your question. No I can not give you a 100% accurate answer but neither could your self-proclaimed prophet as you can see - far from it in fact.
Muslimboy:
“its been an honour understanding your beliefs, but try to live your life without critising the ‘good muslims’”
I criticize Islam because it’s really not a good religion. Muhammed had a remarkable chance to make the world a better place with a religion that would benefit everybody, not only Muhammed and his male followers but women, slaves, minorities of all kind and non-believers too, and as I see it he failed.
– and to really make it all complete, he proclaimed himself the last prophet of all time just to make sure that no one could change his religion after his death and therefore we are all stuck with his medieval way of thinking even today. Behold what the mighty Quran says about slavegirls.
Sura 33:50 “O Prophet! Lo! We have made lawful unto thee thy wives unto whom thou hast paid their dowries, and those whom thy right hand possesseth of those whom Allah hath given thee as spoils of war.”
But I have never critized moderate muslims. I don’t think they know what true Islam is, but if they believe Muhammed meant jihad to be a inner spirituel struggle and not actual war, it’s perfectly fine with me.
Muslimboy:
“i am a muslim out of my own freewill”
I’m curious. My guess is that you live in an secularized european country and good for you, but what would happen if you lost your faith and told your community and family that you had become an atheist?
“the correctway of it is indeed a benifit to mankind”
Mankind you say. What about women?
Sura 4:34 “Men are in charge of women, because Allah hath made the one of them to excel the other, and because they spend of their property (for the support of women). So good women are the obedient, guarding in secret that which Allah hath guarded. As for those from whom ye fear rebellion, admonish them and banish them to beds apart, and scourge them.”
Sura 4:176 “Unto the male is the equivalent of the share of two females.”
Sura 33:32-33 “O ye wives of the Prophet! Ye are not like any other women. … Stay in your houses.”
And here is one of my favorites. It gives us a glimpse of what kind of a man Muhammed was:
Sura 33:53 “When ye ask of them (the wives of the Prophet) anything, ask it of them from behind a curtain. That is purer for your hearts and for their hearts. And it is not for you to cause annoyance to the messenger of Allah, nor that ye should ever marry his wives after him. Lo! that in Allah’s sight would be an enormity.”
Muslimboy:
“god bless you all :)”
.. and may Santa Claus present you with nice presents Muslimboy :)
February 18th, 2008 at 4:45 pm
u have a good sense of humour corso,
and u obviously arnt the odd athiest who has no knowledge of my religion.
verses of the holy quaran can have different ‘tafseer’. basically their interpretation can be different according to different peopple. for example, if thie quran suggests in any verse that men should beat their women if they disobay, the wording is not like that and many scolers understand that as meaning when your wife disobays, leave them time to themselves because the word is not beat that is used.
i love my religion and use it as a guide my dear freind. it teaches me so much and i enjoy life when i do not commit sins.
“My guess is that you live in an secularized european country and good for you, but what would happen if you lost your faith and told your community and family that you had become an atheist?”
i shall hope i do not lose my faith. that is the main objective of this amazing life. that god has deemed us worthy of existing without us deserving to exist and all he asks for is for us to refrain from which he has forbidden and to do the things that will befit us. god doesnt need our prayers. we simply pray to cleanse our ,inds of any doubt of my glorious lords existence.
your guess was only half right. i hope not to lose my faitha nd my family would be dissapointed but accept it. i have freewill. god has given me the potential to be a good or bad human being according to how i choose to use my freewill that he has blessed me with.
i thank my lord for not only giving me life but to give me theists as parenst so that i grow up with a start. now i am old enough, i research islam and other religions. i understand the beauty of this amazing religion. the correcty version of it ofcorse.
forgive me if ive missed any points out, teenagers these days tend to be careless as to miss out on stuff…
p.s just out of curiousity, i believe u said u used to be a muslim? could u please tell me what inspired you to leave islam and abandon your lord.
cheers mate :)
February 18th, 2008 at 4:56 pm
oh and by mankind i meant women as well, how clumsy of me lol
my lord have mercy upon us all
February 18th, 2008 at 5:01 pm
Not everyone is happy. I will not be happy. My right of speech is being impeded, information is being censored and my right to express myself is being limited.
Is it to much to ask of muslims to ignore the image?
February 18th, 2008 at 5:03 pm
No I have never been religious. You probably got the impression because I recommended a book for you entitled “Why I am not a muslim”.
Fortunately my parents were both atheists and I grew up in the real world. I find this life fascinating too just like you - without the angels, demons, written laws and hellfire. The universe, life, human history and behaviour is quite enough to keep my mind going.
February 18th, 2008 at 5:06 pm
alcari,
if someone mocks someone you care about can u ignore it?
how can u expect us to tolerateour beloved prophet to be mocked?
it is not neccery to use an image of hi for your entertainment.
February 18th, 2008 at 5:11 pm
yh but corso where do u get your sense of morality from?
surely it is all in religion?
religion is simply a way of life. and you do not have to imagine god as a old man in a robe like in cartoons. god is simply the name given to the force which created life. it does not have an image. and i refer to it as a ‘he’ simply as a habit. god has no gender
February 18th, 2008 at 8:18 pm
So muslim boy, are you saying that you would be an immoral person if you had no religion?
Morals predate islam, christianity, judaism etc etc and many ‘morals’ coming from these religions are quite hideous.
Im a ‘moral’ person - i dont steal, dont kill or rape, dont start judging people, am not racist, but I dont need a phony religion as a crutch to make me believe that I need it in order to be good.
I think if you need religion to be moral, that implies you are of pretty poor character.
February 19th, 2008 at 7:06 am
You’re completely missing the point, once again.
1 - The image of mohamed is not an insult, it is an educational picture, or as form of entertainment, it doesn’t matter really. It is however not an insult.
2 - You percieve it as an insult, because for some reason, you’re holding us to your arbitrary standards, which we don’t recognise. Remember, you’re to one who beliefs in the invisible sky fairy who said you’re not allowed to draw a picture.
3 - You have no sense of humor. I, my believes or any group I belong to gets mocked all the time. I just laugh with them, because I do have a sense of humor.
4 - You still think your religion is somehow beyond scrutiny.
That’s where you’re wrong. Here in the sane world, we have this thing called freedom of speech. Feel completely free to ignore it.
February 19th, 2008 at 7:32 am
alcari,
your freedom of speech can still exist wiothout mocking an image of our prophet.
there are millions of other things you camn laugh at without disrespecting our prophet.
“And the life of this world is nothing but play and amusement. But far better is the house in the Hereafter for those who are God-fearing. Will you not then understand?”
Surah Al-Anam verse 32
February 19th, 2008 at 10:05 am
Muslim boy, I must disagree with your last post. Specifically: “your freedom of speech can still exist wiothout (sic) mocking an image of our prophet.” Actually, the doctrine of free speech includes two aspects that are important and germaine to this discussion: 1) You don’t have the right to not be offended, and 2) You are not allowed to *force* others to refrain from speech.
I find the cartoons to be — mostly — simple representations and not mocking of Mohammed per se. What those are mocking is the threat of violence for creating “images” of the “prophet.” The other two — the 72 virgins one and the “bomb for a turban” — seem to me to be attacking the purveyors of violence in Islam, not Mohammed.
You’ll note that these are my *interpretations*, which are always present in art of any kind (political or otherwise). Not everyone will agree on what a piece of art “means,” even if the artist is standing there telling you what he meant to convey.
I’ll share with you one of the quotes that stands high in the basis of free speech, from Voltaire: “I may disagree with what you say, but I will defend unto death your right to say it.” That means allowing disrespect, as well. Or even especially.
February 19th, 2008 at 12:01 pm
Muslimboy:
“your freedom of speech can still exist wiothout mocking an image of our prophet”
Muslimboy I am curious. would you be willing to give up some of your own freedom to prevent you from breaking other cultures tabus? like the hindus, jews or buddhists.
February 19th, 2008 at 12:06 pm
Hi again Muslem boy…
I was near the end of a 12 hour night shift when I was posting messages before. I am now at the start of the shift and wide awake. I have just gone back to the Wiki page and re-read it and examined the images again. On the listed page, (link is at the top of this page) the images were made by MUSLEMS!. They are NOT mocking in ANY way.They show what is very obviously a much respected figure. Have you even bothered to have a look at the page in question and the images on it, to see if YOU are offended by the images done by YOUR fellow Muslems hundreds of years ago? I have also re-read all the posts on this page and find that you seem to be spouting sayings and slogans that remind me of another type of indoctrinated youth from a fair few decades ago.
How about you stop and think with your own brain and try to look at this issue from the view point of others. There are around a billion Muslems in the work, but there are more than 5 billion others who don’t care what you think. Learn to live with it, boyo, or your going to have a very sad life.
Having said all that, I freely acknowledge that you are not going to pay any real attention to any thing I have written here. There is a saying about all that evil needs to succeed is to have good people do nothing. At least I have tried. I have a very good friend that is Muslem, he knows and understands my beliefs. He is active within the Muslem community in my town and activly condems violence used by and against Muslems everywhere. He is constantly shouted down, yet he keeps at it.
Open your eyes and your mind, Muslemboy, do not believe everything you are told.
February 19th, 2008 at 3:39 pm
“in the name of allah the all merciful the compasionate”
scaith,
u made me smile wen u said that u weer at the end of a 12 hour shift last time, i was just thinking he knows how to pass his time lol
anyway on a more serious note, i understand what you are saying my friend, i have been on that page and i understand were understand were u are cominga t here…
what i am refering to is the insulting images eg. the one about the prophet and a bombs on his head.
as for the old ones without any moch=king purpose or joking purpose i think it is ok but not neseccery. like the images of him done many years ago to illistrate his appearance. it should not be done but does not cause any disrespect.
and corso, what do you mean by me giving up some of my freedom? i do not understand what freedom you want mn#e to give up, please clarify..
February 19th, 2008 at 4:36 pm
muslim boy, the fact is your religion doesn’t like anyone else talking about or critically thinking about the tenants of yours faith. your religion will do whatever it takes to stop this, you don’t particularly care about the freedoms and rights of “non-believers” because to your religion those people don’t deserve to be treated like people.