This morning I discovered an online petition to censor images of the Prophet Mohammed on Wikipedia. Initially I thought Muslims were angry with Wikipedia having the Danish caricatures on their site, but to my surprise the petition was not aimed at those! It is instead aimed at a few historical depictions of Mohammed on this entry.
The petition’s creator claims that any depiction of the Prophet Muhammed is offensive, even if the creator was a Muslim himself. The petition has gathered over 100,000 signatures thus far and has received a fair share of media attention. You can read more about the petition here.
Wikipedia’s response was short and sweet. They simply stated, “Since Wikipedia is an encyclopedia with the goal of representing all topics from a neutral point of view, Wikipedia is not censored for the benefit of any particular group.”
I agree with this stance, as I’m sure many of you do. It is for that reason I have created an online petition to support Wikipedia on this matter and demand that the images stay put. I ask that you take a minute of your time and please sign this petition if you are against censorship. I also ask that you spread this petition far and wide. Place it on any forums and/or websites that are appropriate.
–gasmonso
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muslimboy:
“are you so narrow minded that if you do not see something you will not believe in it? we cannot see atoms but we know they exist. How blind are you that you cannot see the ‘effect’ of God.”
Atoms are a proven fact.
Now show me the proof that Muhammed was given information from an invisible angel which of course only Muhammed could see – and of course the “angel” supposedly told Muhammed that everybody should obey Muhammed himself or burn forever.
When Muhammed had married his wife number 4 and therefore could not marry anymore according to his own rules, he suddenly had a revelation and .. BIG surprise! .. Allah told Muhammed he could marry as many as he wanted :D
Would you believe me if I told you the same story? and why not?
Narrowminded you call me. At least I am not deeply naive.
can u please tell me wher u got this informattion from?
i research islam and i have never come across this issue, quite possibly it may be true but teher are rules for soomeone to marry more than once.
muhammed loved his first wife khadija more than any other woman, for she funded islam and was the mother of muhammed’s daughter zahra which symbolised the value of a daughter at the time im sure ur aware the arabs would kill their daughters. muhammed marriesother women only after khadija died.
i respect u as an intelligent person, but islam has its beauty u must understand.
“we cannot see atoms but we know they exist.”
Yes we can, those crazy scientists invented this devil-tool call a microscope, allowing them to actually LOOK at individual atoms.
“they are clever in many senses, but they do not understand that science and religion can go together.”
The two constantly clash, thats because different religions throughout history have made ridiculous claims that were proven false by science. Eventually enough of your quran will be proven wrong by science that no one will accept it as a viable religion in society. It’s happened before with many ancient religions.
“often, athiest fear calling that surpreme force god.”
I know exactly what to call the supreme force, it’s called the Strong Nuclear force, and there’s nothing in the Universe stronger. Don’t forget Electromagnetic, Weak Nuclear, and Gravitational forces.
whatever you say my freind, just live your life well and help those in needs. im sure as long as you do good deeds and have mercy, god will lighten your punishment.
but i must say, your arrogance and firm disbelief will not benefit you, i am blessed to understand the surpreme power of my lord.
it has been an honour debating with you lot
may god have mercy upon us all
oh and another thing, please let me know how you are able to see protons and neutrons and oh please do inform me on how electrons look like, do they have the ‘E’ printed on them or are they crosses or dots like in the science books…
Muslim boy, in regard to what electrons and protons “look” like, science does a very good job of explaining the characteristics of the particles you mention, as well as many other particles, even predicting the existence of many that were not previously known. What these particles “look like” is also kind of an inappropriate question if you have a basic understanding of modern physics. In regard to what particles “look like”, we actually understand how well, or how accurately, we can know the various characteristics of these particles in combination. This is all well tested and clearly demonsrated, at merely an undergraduate physics level. The quran does none of that explanation with any validity.
Furthermore, note that if even one error is shown in the quran, your whole religion falls apart. Numerous errors have been shown in the “science” of the quran. However hard it is for you to accept this, your religion should ultimately disappear in the face of this.
“can u please tell me wher u got this informattion from?
i research islam and i have never come across this issue, quite possibly it may be true but teher are rules for soomeone to marry more than once.”
Sure mate – no wonder you love your prophet. All your life you have only been told and read the nice stuff about him.
I got it from a book about Muhammeds life by Kaare Bluitgen “The Quran and the prophet Muhammeds life”.
You can also find it on the net for yourself. I just googled “muhammed revelation marry wifes”:
http://notendur.centrum.is/~snorrigb/hijab5.htm:
“After justifying Muhammed’s marriage with Zaynab, ‘Allah’ did the same to Muhammed’s matrimony to several women. Muhammed not only went further then the average Arab concerning his relationship with women, but he tried constantly to justify his acts by ‘revelations’ from ‘Allah’. The Koran allows Muslim men to have four wives, excluding concubines and slave women. Muhammed, on the other hand, married at least sixteen wives, in addition to concubines, and stayed married to nine of them until his death. ‘Allah’ made sure Muhammed would have a plenty of women to save him from celibacy, as he revealed:
Prophet, We have made lawful to you the wives to whom you have granted dowries and the slave-girls whom Allah has given you as booty; the daughters of your paternal and maternal uncles and of your paternal and maternal aunts who fled with you; and any believing woman who gives herself to the Prophet and whom the Prophet wishes to take in marriage. The privilege is yours alone, being granted to no other believer.28
This ‘revelation’ descended after Muhammed had married more than four wives. Muhammed did not ask ‘Allah’s’ permission he just followed his desires and conveniently had revelations to justify his acts. In the next verse ‘Allah’ sent down another revelation:
It shall be unlawful to you [Muhammed] to take more wives or to change your present wives for other women, though their beauty pleases you, except where slave-girls are concerned. Allah takes cognisance of all things.29″
Korga:
“Furthermore, note that if even one error is shown in the quran, your whole religion falls apart.”
That is true. Since it is supposedly written by the creator of the universe it can not have errors.
I will now destroy a religion.
Sura 18:36 “When he reached the setting place of the sun, he found it setting in a muddy spring and found a people thereabout. We said: ‘O Dhul-Qarneyn! Either punish or show them kindness”
Appearently Muhammed didn’t know it is in fact the earth that moves around the sun and not the other way around.
There you go muslimboy. Your religion just collapsed like the ancient egyptian, persian, roman, greek and nordic religions. You must now make a choice. Either you use this great opportunity and set your mind free and become an atheist or you find yourself another mythology.
im sorry corso, but i cant seem to find that verse.
what sura and wat ayah please?>
i am free, and i choose to follow islam. true islam, whereby i have a purpose in my life and i feel guilyt when commiting a crime becasue i know of the punishment that awaits me.
u have no evidence to prove muhammed was a ‘bad’ person. he struggled throughout his life for islam, after he died the calipha was stolen and the ummah was misguided.
however, there is a minority where the islam of muhammed was preserved. that is why you have the sunni-shia split. but even so we both believe in a creator.
you do not have to see god as a religious identity. just understand that there is a force which created you. a force that intentially created you and put purpose into your lives. a force that sent numerous prophets with miracles as evidence of their prophecy to guide mankind to the correct path.
that force is god, call it what you wish but it still exists.
my lord i ask of you to guide these athiests to ‘siratin mustaqeem’ (correct path).
oh my lord, surely you are the all merciful the compasionate…
“u have no evidence to prove muhammed was a ‘bad’ person.”
How do you know my ancient arabic sources are false? Can you on the other hand prove that Muhammed was all good? Did not have any revelations that benefitted himself, did not own slaves? did not wage war and assassinated opponents? did not stone people to death?
“you do not have to see god as a religious identity. just understand that there is a force which created you. a force that intentially created you and put purpose into your lives.”
In a way I can aggree with you on that.
“a force that sent numerous prophets with miracles as evidence of their prophecy to guide mankind to the correct path.”
Okay there you lost me. When I look at muslim societies founded on Islam, I have a hard time imaging that an all knowing, all loving and most intelligent entity would consider that the “correct” path
– and why would the creator of the universe tell a single human things like slaves are half the value of free humans? that everybody who doesn’t believe will burn forever? and then leave it to that human to spread the word and never be heard from again for 1400 years.
“my lord i ask of you to guide these athiests to ’siratin mustaqeem’ (correct path).
oh my lord, surely you are the all merciful the compasionate…”
And I ask of you to think for yourself about all the things you have been told on this website. This is your chance to free your mind – don’t worry we won’t tell your family if you join us :)
i have many freinds who are athiests,
however they are pretty ignorant wen we debate.
they say ‘we dont know….’
and i believe u dont either.can u giv me a 100% accurate answer to how this life was created without any supreme force?
corso, i respect you and i its been an honour understanding your beliefs, but try to live your life without critising the ‘good muslims’ who dont go killing innocent people and use their religion as an excuse to commit crimes.
some of us are good people who help the poor and do other good stuff…
i have no intention whatsoever to force anyone to convert, my aim, simply, is to put my beliefs across and understand yours
i think athiests are clever people, but slightly ignorant. if you created something then surely you would want it to thank u.
did anyone even bother to visit that link i sent?
and what about the design and causation arguement? is science wrong there as well?
i am a muslim out of my own freewill, islam is ever beautiful and the correctway of it is indeed a benifit to mankind.
god bless you all :)
“can u giv me a 100% accurate answer to how this life was created without any supreme force?”
nope, but I can give several great theories, and in ten years, I might be able to give you a perfect example.
“try to live your life without critising the ‘good muslims’ who dont go killing innocent people and use their religion as an excuse to commit crimes.
some of us are good people who help the poor and do other good stuff…”
Yes, most of us atheists do the exact same thing. However, we don’t indoctrinate our children to believe in a fictional deity who sends you to eternal punishment, even if you live a good and moral life.
“i think athiests are clever people, but slightly ignorant. if you created something then surely you would want it to thank u.”
Personally, I think all religious people are naive and ignorant. The can be intelligent in other fields though.
I create many thing, and I demand no worship from any of them. Even if I were to create a society of sentient beings, I would take more pleasure in them treating eachother well and improving themselves, then in their groveling at my feet.
“did anyone even bother to visit that link i sent?
and what about the design and causation arguement? is science wrong there as well?
What link? What causation argument do you mean? that every effect must have a cause? The one your deity violates, but which is perfectly fulfilled by the big-bang theory?
http://www.shiasource.com/community/community_events/1/
there it is mate :)
yh but what triggered the big bang? surely if it is what u describe as the ‘ultimate cause’ then that is what us theists bekliev is the power of god. see religiona nd science can go together?
that ? at the end is meant to be a :)
“see religiona nd science can go together?”
Then how do you explain all the claims made in religious texts(your’s included) that are proven COMPLETELY unfounded and false?
IF U were alive at the time of muhammed (s) you would have seen the miracles he had performed and understood that the holy quaran is the only holy book whereby god is the central figure. for example, in the torah and the bible it is the word of other men. even in the holy quaran it is clear allah is the speaker because so many times he commands the prophets or people to say.
‘Qul’-Say…..
the quaran is ever glorious that it has survived til this very day, untouched and unchanged. a christian man once approached me and began praising this quran. he was african and was telling me how the ‘white’ men in his country began changing the bible and writing things that would benefit them. he said how they would write that black people are meant to be slaves and how white peopel are the surpremee race. this obviously ids not true. he praised the quaran for being able to be untouched and survive til this very day.
i cannot answer all the religious claims. but because so many of them are proven it is only logical to trust what the rest says about there being a day of judgement and a god.
check out that link, its an athiest vs theist debate. its quite long but very interesting.
Hmm, that’s a rather complex piece of physics. A short answer then, without any deep and complex explanation of why.
Nothing that happened before the big bang can influence the events after the big bang. It is impossible to know what triggered the big bang.
of course you’re free believe to it’s some kind of extra-logical deity, but it might just as well be a million other things. Besides, the only religion somewhat compatible with the real world is deism, not Islam, christianity or any other inteventionist religion.
Hello all
Has anyone noticed how many Muslems have voted to keep the images on Wiki, yet their comments say otherwise. I guess they don’t understand how a petition works.
Ah well… if there is a God, or Gods, they must be rolling around the floor laughing at the way us humans act.
I hope we don’t have the best part of a thousands years of religion based, localised slaughter that the Christian church subjected humanity to, with the Muslem religions. Pray (cough, cough) that Muslems grow up quicker than Christians.
Muslemboy… just how many virgins does a Muslem suicide bomber get? Isn’t any form of suicide a sin? Martyrdom, I believe, comes from being killed for your faith, not killing your self. Why doesn’t Al Jazeera inform the muslem peoples that these fanatics are not actually Muslems and to denounce them to their local authorities? I think someone already asked this, but I don’t remember and answer.
Scaith
Perth, Australia.
SCAITH,
I DONT BELIEVE IN WHAT TERRORISTS ARE DOUING. I THINK ITS wrong. YOUVE DONE THE ONE THING I DIDNT WANT YOU TO DO, AND THATS TO STEREOTYPE. NOT ALL MUSLIMS ARE BAD PEOPLE. YOU ARE RIGHT ABOUT MARTYDOM THOUGH. its the cause that makes the martyr. it depends what you aer fighting for and what you are defending.
a good example is the battle of karbala, where hussain, the son of ali sacrificed everything he had for the sake of ‘true’ islam. research it if you can, hussayns message was universal. it is not just for muslims :)
may god bless u all
Hello Muslemboy
Yes, a stereotype, but it’s all the average Joe in the western world gets to hear. There are something like a billion Muslems in the world and all the world hears from is a few thousands of fanatics that are supposed to be followers of the Prophet. I see you have used all caps to stress your message. Lets hear from you and the billion other Muslems rant and rave about these fake Muslems instead of babbling on about a bunch on pictures that were mostly the creation of Muslems. Lets see 222,000 plus Muslems that signed the other petition starting and signing petitions against these extreamists and not using crap excuses about being victimised by the yank”s and isreali’s. The rest of the world’s average people are sick of it.
wooow, dont get the israeli issue into it.
i agree with what you are saying, but what the israelis are doingis wrong. they are murdering innocent womena dnchildren adn occupying land which is not theres.
a man once asked me ‘is mecca and medina not enough for you muslims’
i replied to him, “if you have 3 houses, but someone breaks into it and claims its theres because you have another two, is that ok? it is the principle that counts. roughly 50 years ago the palestinians were living on that land. but with support, ‘israel’ was formed. people were moved out by force and the jews around thw world settled in and created their country on the muslim land. how is this acceptable?”
however, what these terrorists are doing in the western world is wrong. and worse of all it all is being done under the banner and name of islam. it is understandable, why so many people hate us muslims. because these terrorists go and do all this damage to our name and expect people to think islam is peacful.
my lord is indeed merciful…
Hi Muslemboy
The israeli’s didn’t settle on Muslem land. They settled on Palestinian land. If people stop shooting at them and saying they don’t have a right to exist, I’m sure they’ll stop shooting too. What terrorists are doing all over the world is bad, from Bagdad to timbuktoo. I know that some countries are being occupied and that sometimes it’s for the good, and some times it’s not. The British in Ireland in 1166-2008 and the Americans in Iraq right now, for example Thats not unique to Muslem countries and has been going on for ever.
Anyway… are you going to get every true follower of Islam you know to stop babbling on about a few pictures and start protesting about how these fake Muslems are destroying your religion? You didn’t mention anything about that part of my post.
my dear friend,
is it too much too ask of ppl to refrain from putting up these images? the everyone is happy.
at a fundemental level, we believe in muhammed as a prophet, theerfore a representative of what god wants us to know. we respect him and theerfroe should not use images of him as a sign of respect. we do not want his images to be subject of mockery and that is the most important reason why we do not want his images up.
and palestinians are muslims. and that earth is holy to us just as it is to the jews and christians. what good is it if they simply ‘stop shooting’. that is not enough, the palestinians have lost their homeland, to these people. how many more innocent humans have to die before people realise its the israelis whoa re terrorising the palestinians. the palestinians dont even have a proper police force or army force. most of what they are allowed is up to the israelis.
is that democracy my friend, whereby the jews are sitting in there luxurious homes and these poor palestinians are suffereing?
the israelis have no mercy, they kill even the unarmed and beat the elderly. i have seen this wityh my own eyes my friend.
all due repect, but israel cant expect to steal the land and for the islamic ummah to find it acceptable.
From my last post..
“Anyway… are you going to get every true follower of Islam you know to stop babbling on about a few pictures and start protesting about how these fake Muslems are destroying your religion? You didn’t mention anything about that part of my post.”
The pictures are not killing anyone! Please get Muslem’s to get their priorities right.
I tell you what, you get all your buddies to protest how these fake Muslems are destroying your religion and I’ll add my name to the petition to get rid of the pictures on Wiki.
Muslimboy:
“i have many freinds who are athiests,
however they are pretty ignorant wen we debate.
they say ‘we dont know….’â€
As Socrates said “”The only true wisdom is in knowing you know nothing”.
If I said a little troll in my backyard told me what the meaning of life is, would that make you more ignorant than me? Of course not and yet you call us ignorant despite the fact that your “knowledge†comes from a medieval man with questionable morale that claimed he got his information from an invisible angel only he could see. That doesn’t make us ignorant compared to you – far from it.
By the way did you even know Muhammed owned slaves when you started debating here?
Muslimboy:
“can u giv me a 100% accurate answer to how this life was created without any supreme force?â€
Let’s first take a look at what the Quran says.
Sura 38:71 “Your Lord said to the angels “I am creating a human being from clay.â€
This was not something Muhammed came up with himself. He was most probably inspired by ancients myths. The babylonian mother goddess Enki created man from clay because the gods wanted servents. The old Testament tells how Adam was made from clay. Also the egyptian ram-headed god Khnum made people from clay. You also find the clay myths in mayan and chinese mythology. Not a wonder really considering how important clay was in ancient times and what it was used for.
So to answer your question. No I can not give you a 100% accurate answer but neither could your self-proclaimed prophet as you can see – far from it in fact.
Muslimboy:
“its been an honour understanding your beliefs, but try to live your life without critising the ‘good muslims’â€
I criticize Islam because it’s really not a good religion. Muhammed had a remarkable chance to make the world a better place with a religion that would benefit everybody, not only Muhammed and his male followers but women, slaves, minorities of all kind and non-believers too, and as I see it he failed.
– and to really make it all complete, he proclaimed himself the last prophet of all time just to make sure that no one could change his religion after his death and therefore we are all stuck with his medieval way of thinking even today. Behold what the mighty Quran says about slavegirls.
Sura 33:50 “O Prophet! Lo! We have made lawful unto thee thy wives unto whom thou hast paid their dowries, and those whom thy right hand possesseth of those whom Allah hath given thee as spoils of war.”
But I have never critized moderate muslims. I don’t think they know what true Islam is, but if they believe Muhammed meant jihad to be a inner spirituel struggle and not actual war, it’s perfectly fine with me.
Muslimboy:
“i am a muslim out of my own freewillâ€
I’m curious. My guess is that you live in an secularized european country and good for you, but what would happen if you lost your faith and told your community and family that you had become an atheist?
“the correctway of it is indeed a benifit to mankindâ€
Mankind you say. What about women?
Sura 4:34 “Men are in charge of women, because Allah hath made the one of them to excel the other, and because they spend of their property (for the support of women). So good women are the obedient, guarding in secret that which Allah hath guarded. As for those from whom ye fear rebellion, admonish them and banish them to beds apart, and scourge them.”
Sura 4:176 “Unto the male is the equivalent of the share of two females.”
Sura 33:32-33 “O ye wives of the Prophet! Ye are not like any other women. … Stay in your houses.”
And here is one of my favorites. It gives us a glimpse of what kind of a man Muhammed was:
Sura 33:53 “When ye ask of them (the wives of the Prophet) anything, ask it of them from behind a curtain. That is purer for your hearts and for their hearts. And it is not for you to cause annoyance to the messenger of Allah, nor that ye should ever marry his wives after him. Lo! that in Allah’s sight would be an enormity.”
Muslimboy:
“god bless you all :)â€
.. and may Santa Claus present you with nice presents Muslimboy :)
u have a good sense of humour corso,
and u obviously arnt the odd athiest who has no knowledge of my religion.
verses of the holy quaran can have different ‘tafseer’. basically their interpretation can be different according to different peopple. for example, if thie quran suggests in any verse that men should beat their women if they disobay, the wording is not like that and many scolers understand that as meaning when your wife disobays, leave them time to themselves because the word is not beat that is used.
i love my religion and use it as a guide my dear freind. it teaches me so much and i enjoy life when i do not commit sins.
“My guess is that you live in an secularized european country and good for you, but what would happen if you lost your faith and told your community and family that you had become an atheist?”
i shall hope i do not lose my faith. that is the main objective of this amazing life. that god has deemed us worthy of existing without us deserving to exist and all he asks for is for us to refrain from which he has forbidden and to do the things that will befit us. god doesnt need our prayers. we simply pray to cleanse our ,inds of any doubt of my glorious lords existence.
your guess was only half right. i hope not to lose my faitha nd my family would be dissapointed but accept it. i have freewill. god has given me the potential to be a good or bad human being according to how i choose to use my freewill that he has blessed me with.
i thank my lord for not only giving me life but to give me theists as parenst so that i grow up with a start. now i am old enough, i research islam and other religions. i understand the beauty of this amazing religion. the correcty version of it ofcorse.
forgive me if ive missed any points out, teenagers these days tend to be careless as to miss out on stuff…
p.s just out of curiousity, i believe u said u used to be a muslim? could u please tell me what inspired you to leave islam and abandon your lord.
cheers mate :)
oh and by mankind i meant women as well, how clumsy of me lol
my lord have mercy upon us all
Not everyone is happy. I will not be happy. My right of speech is being impeded, information is being censored and my right to express myself is being limited.
Is it to much to ask of muslims to ignore the image?
No I have never been religious. You probably got the impression because I recommended a book for you entitled “Why I am not a muslim”.
Fortunately my parents were both atheists and I grew up in the real world. I find this life fascinating too just like you – without the angels, demons, written laws and hellfire. The universe, life, human history and behaviour is quite enough to keep my mind going.
alcari,
if someone mocks someone you care about can u ignore it?
how can u expect us to tolerateour beloved prophet to be mocked?
it is not neccery to use an image of hi for your entertainment.
yh but corso where do u get your sense of morality from?
surely it is all in religion?
religion is simply a way of life. and you do not have to imagine god as a old man in a robe like in cartoons. god is simply the name given to the force which created life. it does not have an image. and i refer to it as a ‘he’ simply as a habit. god has no gender
So muslim boy, are you saying that you would be an immoral person if you had no religion?
Morals predate islam, christianity, judaism etc etc and many ‘morals’ coming from these religions are quite hideous.
Im a ‘moral’ person – i dont steal, dont kill or rape, dont start judging people, am not racist, but I dont need a phony religion as a crutch to make me believe that I need it in order to be good.
I think if you need religion to be moral, that implies you are of pretty poor character.
You’re completely missing the point, once again.
1 – The image of mohamed is not an insult, it is an educational picture, or as form of entertainment, it doesn’t matter really. It is however not an insult.
2 – You percieve it as an insult, because for some reason, you’re holding us to your arbitrary standards, which we don’t recognise. Remember, you’re to one who beliefs in the invisible sky fairy who said you’re not allowed to draw a picture.
3 – You have no sense of humor. I, my believes or any group I belong to gets mocked all the time. I just laugh with them, because I do have a sense of humor.
4 – You still think your religion is somehow beyond scrutiny.
That’s where you’re wrong. Here in the sane world, we have this thing called freedom of speech. Feel completely free to ignore it.
alcari,
your freedom of speech can still exist wiothout mocking an image of our prophet.
there are millions of other things you camn laugh at without disrespecting our prophet.
“And the life of this world is nothing but play and amusement. But far better is the house in the Hereafter for those who are God-fearing. Will you not then understand?”
Surah Al-Anam verse 32
Muslim boy, I must disagree with your last post. Specifically: “your freedom of speech can still exist wiothout (sic) mocking an image of our prophet.” Actually, the doctrine of free speech includes two aspects that are important and germaine to this discussion: 1) You don’t have the right to not be offended, and 2) You are not allowed to *force* others to refrain from speech.
I find the cartoons to be — mostly — simple representations and not mocking of Mohammed per se. What those are mocking is the threat of violence for creating “images” of the “prophet.” The other two — the 72 virgins one and the “bomb for a turban” — seem to me to be attacking the purveyors of violence in Islam, not Mohammed.
You’ll note that these are my *interpretations*, which are always present in art of any kind (political or otherwise). Not everyone will agree on what a piece of art “means,” even if the artist is standing there telling you what he meant to convey.
I’ll share with you one of the quotes that stands high in the basis of free speech, from Voltaire: “I may disagree with what you say, but I will defend unto death your right to say it.” That means allowing disrespect, as well. Or even especially.
Muslimboy:
“your freedom of speech can still exist wiothout mocking an image of our prophet”
Muslimboy I am curious. would you be willing to give up some of your own freedom to prevent you from breaking other cultures tabus? like the hindus, jews or buddhists.
Hi again Muslem boy…
I was near the end of a 12 hour night shift when I was posting messages before. I am now at the start of the shift and wide awake. I have just gone back to the Wiki page and re-read it and examined the images again. On the listed page, (link is at the top of this page) the images were made by MUSLEMS!. They are NOT mocking in ANY way.They show what is very obviously a much respected figure. Have you even bothered to have a look at the page in question and the images on it, to see if YOU are offended by the images done by YOUR fellow Muslems hundreds of years ago? I have also re-read all the posts on this page and find that you seem to be spouting sayings and slogans that remind me of another type of indoctrinated youth from a fair few decades ago.
How about you stop and think with your own brain and try to look at this issue from the view point of others. There are around a billion Muslems in the work, but there are more than 5 billion others who don’t care what you think. Learn to live with it, boyo, or your going to have a very sad life.
Having said all that, I freely acknowledge that you are not going to pay any real attention to any thing I have written here. There is a saying about all that evil needs to succeed is to have good people do nothing. At least I have tried. I have a very good friend that is Muslem, he knows and understands my beliefs. He is active within the Muslem community in my town and activly condems violence used by and against Muslems everywhere. He is constantly shouted down, yet he keeps at it.
Open your eyes and your mind, Muslemboy, do not believe everything you are told.
“in the name of allah the all merciful the compasionate”
scaith,
u made me smile wen u said that u weer at the end of a 12 hour shift last time, i was just thinking he knows how to pass his time lol
anyway on a more serious note, i understand what you are saying my friend, i have been on that page and i understand were understand were u are cominga t here…
what i am refering to is the insulting images eg. the one about the prophet and a bombs on his head.
as for the old ones without any moch=king purpose or joking purpose i think it is ok but not neseccery. like the images of him done many years ago to illistrate his appearance. it should not be done but does not cause any disrespect.
and corso, what do you mean by me giving up some of my freedom? i do not understand what freedom you want mn#e to give up, please clarify..
muslim boy, the fact is your religion doesn’t like anyone else talking about or critically thinking about the tenants of yours faith. your religion will do whatever it takes to stop this, you don’t particularly care about the freedoms and rights of “non-believers” because to your religion those people don’t deserve to be treated like people.
Muslim, would you be willing to stop eating cows and wearing cow leather to prevent offending hindus? Would you be willing to stop eating meat alltogether, to prevent offending vegans? Would you be willing to follow any of the crazy, half baked commandments of the hundreds of cults out there, to prevent offending anyone?
i see…
that is a very good point,
i probably wouldn’t…
i do not mind the pics of him without the mocking purpose. but the fact that some images are done for a s[ecific purpose ‘i.e the cartoons’ to mock and create a joke is a different issue.
the images on wikipedia is not offensive to me because its purpose is not to mock.
as for the cartoons, it is another issue.
may allah bless you all and forgive us all of our sins…
sooo, you’re not willing to do things to prevent offending other people, but you expect us to respect your religion? Not likely.
Also, it’s not my fault you have no sense of humor.
In the name of allah, the all merciful, the compasionate
ofcorse i have a sense of humour, but im not gonna sit there laghing at a cartoon mocking the prophet of my religion. a prophet who is a role model for all of mankind. with his amazing manners and patience. the fact that he would release slaves and give to the poor.
amazingly though, if anyone here has read the holy quaran, God is the central figure. it is not muhammed who is the central figure. no way could this book have been written by man, for truely it is the word of god the all glorious.
sometimes i wonder, how different would i be if i was raised by an athiest family?
i thank god that i have the privilige of being raised in an environment whereby i understand his existence. god wil not punish those who do not know. going back to corso’s point about being sent to hell even if your a good person but a non-believer, if you have sufficient knowledge (such as yourself my dear freind corso) about islam and its teachings, then you are liable on the day of judgement.
but if you were raised by an athiest family and did not know the true beauty of islam and you wre a good person then god is the best of judges.
may god have mercy upon all our souls on the day of reckoning..
Muslimboy my friend, Here is your chance to show your ability to think for yourself and your morale standing.
In my eyes no one has ever lived who deserved eternal burning – not even Hitler. It’s a horrible punishment.
How long would it take for you Muslimboy, being burned alive without being able to die, before you would lose your mind and become insane?
an hour? two?
If I am judged to be burned forever for not accepting Muhammed as a true prophet, do you consider that a fair punishment? Yes or no? and please do not try to escape that question.
I have noticed you keep saying “In the name of allah, the all merciful, the compasionate”
Is hell invented by a merciful and compasionate creature? answer honourstly if you can. How many souls do you think is burning right now in hell? Millions? billions?
I will surely burn forever and you seem to take that strangely light.
If I knew a person on this planet would burn for eternity after death, there was not a thing I wouldn’t do to save that person and I would expect the whole world to unite in order to save that single person from such a horrible fate.
But you don’t seem to care very much.
“In the name of allah, the all-merciful, the Beneficent”
@Corso…
respect to your independant thinking but you cant word it like that…
firt of all, no one is burning at the moment…
we await the day of judgement for allah to judge us and then it will be clear..
“Most surely man is ungrateful to his lord (6) And most surely he is a witness to that (7) And most surely he is tenacious in the love of wealth (8) Does he not know when what is in the grave is raised? (9) And what is in the breasts is made apparent?” sura 100 (al-adiyat-the assaulters)
ofcorse i acre, but everyone has freewill. firstly you did nothing to deserve life. you had no conscious desicion to make about being born. now what can you do, to repay your creator or deserve life in the first place? God has bestowed you with more than enough blesings. The least you can do my good friend is to accept you were created by a force more powerful than you….
“If I am judged to be burned forever for not accepting Muhammed as a true prophet, do you consider that a fair punishment? Yes or no? and please do not try to escape that question.”
my lord is all knowing and all merciful… surely not, because lets face it, christians and jews do not either but its not to say thay cannot enter heaven. your personality will play a major role on the day of judgement. if you helped the poor, did good deeds refrained from sin etc surely your punishment wil be lightened. but you will be judged according to your knowledge, i hate to say it but corso, you seem to have very good knowledge about my religion. did you check out that link i sent? it was a athiest vs theist debate, very interesting i must say…
there needs to be punishment otherwise morality would have no sense. if something is right, then it should be done. but if something is wrong, then it should not be done. if the wrong is done then a punishment must take place.
God has given us more than enough time, a whole life time!
within this time wecan do the good deeds.
what is the point of life if there is no target? this life is finate, even an idiot will tell you we die. we must theerfore make the most of it doing good and refraining from harm. the reason my lord has forbidden so many things in islam is because there is a negative impact upon us if we do it. my lord is all-knowing.
not everyone will burn for ever. everyone will burn according to what they didi in this life. we have a responsibility my good friend. as a muslim who is against terrorism and killing of innocent people, i have a duty to spread the word of true islam.
may God bless you my friend, to him we belong and to him we shall return :)
Muslimboy:
“ The least you can do my good friend is to accept you were created by a force more powerful than youâ€
I do accept that. However that force has very little to do with your Allah.
“christians and jews do not either but its not to say thay cannot enter heaven. your personality will play a major role on the day of judgement. if you helped the poor, did good deeds refrained from sin etc surely your punishment wil be lightened.â€
Could you point to a verse in the Quran that says this? Your god does not aggree with you in this verse:
Sura 9:80 “Allah will not forgive them. This is because they disbelieve in Allah and His messenger. Allah does not guide the wicked people.â€
Sura 2:217 “Those who die in their disbelief will burn forever in the Fireâ€
“there needs to be punishment otherwise morality would have no sense. if something is right, then it should be done. but if something is wrong, then it should not be done. if the wrong is done then a punishment must take place.â€
It’s not that I consider punishment a bad thing generally speaking. I was pointing out the extreme nature of eternal punishment compared to the “crime†of not accepting the words of a man who claim he is a prophet without any evidence. Thousands of people has made that claim – even today there are plenty of prophets around. Also I find it astonishing that you keep referring to your god as merciful.
I have a daughter at only 15 months. If she grows up not recognizing my authority as her creator, I will bring her into my basement where I will torment her with fire for the rest of her life both night and day.
Does this make me
a) all merciful and compasionate?
b) a sick bastard?
“God has given us more than enough time, a whole life time!
within this time wecan do the good deeds.â€
You know the child mortality rate? At the moment 21 children under 5 dies each minute and this is after medical science has been invented. The work of the all merciful and compasionate?
“the reason my lord has forbidden so many things in islam is because there is a negative impact upon us if we do it. my lord is all-knowing.â€
We eat pigs in Denmark. What negative impact does it have on us? The danish life expectancy is higher than in most muslim countries – if not all.
“not everyone will burn for ever. everyone will burn according to what they didi in this life.â€
1) How do you know that?
2) So you consider eternal pain a fair punishment after all? Yes or no? Your answer will prove your ability to think for yourself and your morale standing.
“in the name of allah, the all merciful, the compasionate”
id like to applaude your good english despite you living in denemark :D
God judges each person according to the knowledge they had. for example, if a person is raised in an athiest family and grew up with athiest friends and was influenced mostly by athiesta, then his ‘dealing with’ will be different to a person like yourself who is aware of theisim and of the different arguements. you cannot compare yourself to God. first of all, since you acknowledge you have been created, was that force not merciful in creating you? what did you do to deserve to be created? since you have a 15 month old daughter, i am assuming you are somwhere in your adulthood life. your whole life have you been against the idea of God existing? or is this a recent thing?
if you checked out that link i sent about the debate, you would of seen the athiest by the name of dan barker. mr barker was a christian preacher for years, until one day he just gave up. now this surprises me, would that mean that when he preached he was confused himself, or was he not patient enough and since life was tough he decided to challange god?
anyway back to the point, your daughter not acknowledging you is different to you saying god does not exist. to point out the basic, it was not just you who created her, as you do have a partner. God does not,
“Say allah is one”
the whole point of god is he is the start that never ends. that he is the un-caused cause.
Bertrand Russell once said that he would believe in God, if only he understood who had caused God to come into existence. Although the discussion about this is a bit complicated, we understand there is a need for an Ultimate cause or an ‘uncaused cause’ to work as a trigger. This is necessary; otherwise if we imagine a being created God we must ponder over what created that being. It therefore follows that there must be a cause that has not been an ‘effect’ of something else.
Can such beautiful and sophisticated creations, from single celled amoeba to the complex brain of man, have evolved by chance? There must be reason behind this. ‘Luck’ and ‘chance’ are not good enough to explain our creation. The very idea of an all-powerful creator who we submit to cements morality and allows society to run morally.
It is understandable why atheists do not believe in a ‘God’. In order to believe in something evidence must be present to support the claim. However, different people view something as either being evidence or not. For example, a fundamental piece of evidence for Muslims is the Qu’ran and as for Christians, the bible.
For example, people who see things describe it as being evidence. However, there are many things we do not see but we know exist. Examples include atoms and gravity. However we understand they exist due to their effects. In that respect, I think that believing in God should be more based on a scientific judgement as well as evidence in religion rather than based on the fact that there is many people believing in his exists.
this life is a test, anyone will tell you life ends and we die. but who can tell you what happens after you die? the quran is so correct in many things, surely what it sattes about the hereafter is correct. even until this very day muhammeds name is abused. he obayed his lord and in mecca wher theism was not practiced, despite the danger to his life, he obayed his lord and introduced islam. islam is based on the idea that god is one and all powerful. it is not called muhammedism because muhammed is not the central figure. if this religion was made up by muhammed then surely he would vbenifit himself and make himself the central figure like many morons are trying to do even this very day claiming to be messiahs etc. muhammed is the final messenger, and the true islam is amzingly beautiful ever so perfect
about the eating of pig, you are not all knowing and neither am i. i have a french tecaher who loves pork. all his life he’s been eating the stuff. one day it caused him a problem. he fell terribly ill. for weks he was unable to teach because of this. as from that day he praised islam for being so amazing as to forbid this meat. it is like the adam and eve story, you must have heard it. god gives adam and eve a whole garden of fruit and asks of them to refrain from eating this particualr fruit. when they do they get throw out of heaven. this teaches us a lesson, we are blessed with more than enough, the fact that god has forbiden so many things temps us to abuse our freewill and to do it, hence comit a sin.
i have a lecture to give on saturday, im still young and there is much more i can learn, but i think i have learnt enough to tell people how lucky and blessed we are. i hope my lord helps you find the correct way. you sem to have a great sense of humour and even a kind personality, but how can you think that after you die thats it, surely our life has a purpose? and i sort of feel sorry for your daughter, shes probably gonna grow up with your athiesm influence upon her, will you honestly say to me that if she were to become a muslim you would be happy with it?
eternal pain and punishment? my lord has been more than merciful towards us, bestowed upon us so many blessings, yet we are so ignorant
“most surely manis ungrateful to jis lord (6) and most surely he is a witness to that (7) and most surely he is tenacious in the love of wealth (8) does he not know when what is in the graves is raised? (9)and what is in the breasts is made apparent? (10)” – surah 100
i respect you as an individual, but please let us do what we want with our freewill. if we are not causing harm like terrorists then what have you got against us? let us worship our lord the all-merciful. on the day of judgement we will see who has the last laugh, you will see how right i was and how ignorant you were to deny it. but you can believe that you will laugh at me if i find out what i believe in is false, but then again you cant can you coz youll be dead with no hereafter like you believe :)
“your daughter not acknowledging you is different to you saying god does not exist. to point out the basic, it was not just you who created her, as you do have a partner. God does not,”
..and my wife played a role too you know but that doesn’t matter either. You are trying to escape the question.
Am I a sick bastard or all merciful for building a hell in my basement for my daughter to suffer in?
For the rest of the replies you made I will be back later. Need to sleep.
Oh I really got to respond to this one :)
“i have a french tecaher who loves pork. all his life he’s been eating the stuff. one day it caused him a problem. he fell terribly ill. for weks he was unable to teach because of this. as from that day he praised islam for being so amazing as to forbid this meat.”
A teacher getting sick by eating pig. Amazing. Islam is right. Allah uakbar! :D
.. except for one thing. I once got sick drinking an old orange juice. How come Allah missed the part about unclean orange juice when he wrote his book?
Seriously Muslimboy. That one was far out.