Over the last several weeks, I have been trying to finish up the new site design (trust me it’s almost done), when I started to question the purpose of it in the first place. I wasn’t just questioning the new site design, but rather the site as a whole. I asked myself… what’s the point?
What started off as just a little side-project has evolved in to quite an en devour over the last few years. But I do ask myself, often when I am feeling down and overwhelmed with life… what is the point? Is it to merely entertain people with kookie religious stories at the expense of “religious freaks”? Is to serve a slightly more worthful purpose such as enlightening people to the dangers of religious extremism and blind faith? Sometimes I honestly wonder.
Yesterday I received a timely email from a random reader named Frank that brought those questions to light and more. To be honest it got me thinking a little bit and I’m still mulling it over in my head. But in the meantime I’d like you all to have a look and share your thoughts. All I ask is that you read the email in its entirety and respond in a civil manner please.
Frank writes:
I would just like to e-mail you and let you know my personal opinion. I’ve read through a few of the posts that you have here on your site and I find it to have a certain amount of idiocy in and of itself.
In my opinion, I believe that the ignorance that most religious people have today is on the same level as people like you who run sites like this. In your quest to find the truth behind “religious idiocy”, you create your own lens/veil of ignorance to the beauty and life that religious people of all faiths hold.
I agree that there are a certain amount of crazy people who live in this world that use religion as a podium to spew out lies and deceit, but there’s also just as many people who are agnostic and atheist who do the same thing. As a person of religious faith, I believe that we all share a certain amount of sin or sinful behavior, religious or not. And just the same, there are a certain amount of “freaks” that live in this world, whether they’re religious or not.
Frankly, I see you as exactly the same type of person that you’re trying to fight against, a “freak” surrounded by his own extremist beliefs, only yours happen to not be religious. Therefore, somehow, you think that you’re better than those who are religious, because, in your mind, they believe in some type of moral code, which you see as hypocritical.
It’s no secret that the agnostic/atheist community of the United States has a certain amount of contempt for Christian communities that support war, as it is seen as one of the most hypocritical statements that a Christian can make. The, “Who Would Jesus Bomb?” t-shirts tend to be a great example of this school of thought. But the truth is that there are no rules for Christianity. Anyone can be anything and claim to be a Christian. Anyone can take whatever distorted view of a text written thousands of years ago and shape it into whatever they want it to be. “Freaks” can be cannibals and Christians in their own minds, as long as they find some way to justify their claims to others.
My point is that, in my opinion, I don’t think that your website does much good. It just seems to spread an already growing hatred for religious people. While I appreciate that there are people who are critical of people who are “Religious Freaks”, myself being one of them, I think that sites like yours don’t get “Religious Freaks” to change at all. They just get people who already hate “Religious Freaks” to hate them even more.
As an administer of change, I would have to say that sites like this are a complete failure. As I’m one who’s certainly not going to “boycott” sites like yours, because I believe in peoples’ right to have an opinion and their right to criticize freely (as criticism can be a great administer of change), I just think that having a site called “religiousfreaks.com” is complete bigotry. And isn’t that what you’re trying to fight against? I don’t know, maybe it’s not. Maybe you, like others, just want to hate someone, whoever they happen to be, and religious people seem like a good target to you.
I would suggest that if you haven’t already, you should read all of these texts that you are supposedly against and really understand that what you’re trying to fight against. At least try to speak the language of the people you’re trying to change. Then, maybe you wouldn’t have to have a site like “religiousfreaks.com” and you could actually do some good for the community that you, as am I, are both apart of.
Thank you very much for taking the time to read this as I appreciate being read/heard just as much as you do.
Thanks,
Frank
Related posts:
- Jehovaha’s Witnesses Freak Me Out Yet Again
- Katherine Harris, Christian Freak Or MILF?
- Christian Freak Comic Strip Attacks Sunday Paper
- The Misguided Adventures Of Heteroy!
- gasmonso On The Run!
well gas, i guess im right there with you. if only i had a website to call my own that would instigate such brilliant hate-mail……
Honestly, I wouldn’t label this as “hate” mail at all. You should see some of the crap that I receive :) I think Frank was sincere and has a valid point or two. Agreed?
In my opinion he came to the table with his preconceived notions, either that or he just has no sense of humor.
Gasmonso:
I would certainly say I detect a certain amount of anger directed at you by this individual, but that is to be expected on the internet (what ever happened to politeness and a sense of humor, I wonder?). I would agree with him in one regard, though. Veils of ignorance do need to be lifted. I’m just not sure he and I would agree about the definition of where those veils are hung . . . and I am in direct opposition to the idea that your site does no good, or I wouldn’t have started posting here and coming back to read, learn, and interact. Keep the the good work. Thank you for this site.
I’ll address this to you, gas, since it seems to be your concern more than Frank’s.
What is the purpose of this site? What kind of purpose are you looking for? If the goal was to enlighten the masses, most attempts will inevitably fail because a lot of people just don’t want to listen. They probably never will. This, of course, goes for both sides, as Frank said.
But was this site created for them? I like to think not. I’ve been at least lurking here almost since this site was started, and over time I’ve found this to consistently be one of the most enlightening and civil sites of its type on the internet. It is true, a lot of morons come on here to shout stupid things, but that is usually reserved for either the muhammed caricatures post or older posts. But when a new post comes up a small but stable community appears that has interest in listening to others and talking about these things. We each have different style which become apparent over time, but we still manage to discuss without too much pain. For being able to form such a community, Religious Freaks is worth it.
When posters who do have no intention in improving themselves or others do appear to give everyone grief, we still address them. The conversation continues past the point where any other site would just make it all disappear. Through this I’ve learned a lot more about the religious mind in many of its shades than I could learn from anywhere else. For that perspective Religious Freaks is worth it.
And lastly I will ask: perhaps you will not on your own change the perspective of humanity. But if you change just one person’s opinion, get them to reconsider their own beliefs in light of the ideas of others, is it worth it? I recall this post, and the person in it who came in with questions. We answered sensibly, and the person continued to investigate on her own. This is what I love about this site. That we can do that. You can’t do that everywhere. And that, I think, makes Religious Freaks worth it.
Has Religious Freaks saved the world? Not yet. Has it done nothing? Certainly not. So when the strain gets you down, remember that we are here, and whatever some think, others wholeheartedly approve. I, for one, am with you. And with that I descend from the podium, Mr. Speaker :)
Gasmonso,
First, let me tell you a wide guess: I believe you’re profoundly religious. As much as it seems ilogical, the fact _you_care_ is a clear indication of it. I believe what bothers you is not religion per se, but what people do in its name. Or better, if most religions tend to see God as a perfect being (or the essence of perfection) then you those persons do so many blatantly wrong thins in His/Her name?
Your “war” (or itch to scratch, to put in perspective) is not against religion, but against religious freakiness, thus trying to help “religious freaks” to see beyond their limited view of the world.
Somebody can say “why to change their minds if they’re happy with the way they are? You’re being just like the ones you fight against.”. I’d say the ones you want to change are the ones who aren’t happy at all, those people who are afraid of hell, and are maintained obedient by this frightening mental image. Or the ones who cut themselves and their own sons to honor a would-be saint. Or the ones who try to force religious points of view as scientificly acceptable theories. Or the ones who kill in name of a God or deity. Or the ones who try to use the Government machine to force a religious view on a population.
You’re not like them. You see God as something simpler, more logical, something people could gather around, instead of a reason to fight against the other. At least it’s the way I see you, I see others here and I see myself.
The fact is we, like every group of like-mindeds, sooner or later, would find a place (even if virtual) to gather. To stay informed about what we are combating. We flock around Religious Freaks, but we live too, and we try to expose our opinion about religion whenever possible and applicable, enlightening the ones around us. We’ll continue doing it with or without Religious Freak, but with this site we feel we’re not alone, we feel there are people like us who want to bring a bit of sanity to this world. People moved by goodwill like us.
I’ll write more about it in the following days (I need to sleep a bit before work), so I beg you pardon for stopping so abruptly. But hang on. The real battle is against ignorance.
Best wishes.
Howdy all,
As I read through Frank’s email I also was prompted into giving his point a little thought. His justifications aside, he seems to think this site (for watever reason) is helping to create the gap between religous and not religous people. If that was the purpose of the site then I may agree he has a point. From my time reading this site I would have to disaggree with him. I think perhaps he has only glossed over the posts and hasn’t spent enough time here to truly get a feel for the core disucussions that the regular poster have here.
There are posts by the hardliners on both sides of the fence. It is the discussion on the extreme views that help us discover and understand where the middle ground may lie. It also helps us examine our own beliefs and preconceptions. This site has had a number of religous people of various faiths provide insight and challanged what I previously thought about religion.
Crossing the gap between religous and non religous people means we are going to have to examin the nasty bits of both. This is never going to be easy. To say that this merely antagonises and doesn’t help seems to me to be a very shallow view. More of a “Let’s pretend this problem doesn’t exist” rather than “Lets hash this out and implement change to solve the problem” type view.
Another sign of this is that he merely offer critism without suggesting possible soloutions. I think this site gives us the oportunity to discuss the extremes, learn from each other, provide a bridge of understanding and helps us define in a pratical sense what is acceptable and not when facing the question of belief and having to get on.
Cheers
Simon Bond
Hey, Gasmonso… i have admit, i have learned a lot from this site. if you were to take this and look at the big picture. My bible and my Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ has shown me some gut-wrenching things that are hard to take. I do see the scriptures and the truth it shows me. it is sad, but the truth hurts and when the cup is poured, we will all see that this is just a small picture of what is to come in this big world we live. For my ways are not His ways and all i can do is thank God for wonderous works of His Son. Dude, the power of those who see. How can I trun my back or take that easy path which i think is right.
“this site gives us the oportunity to discuss the extremes, learn from each other, provide a bridge of understanding”
i agree Simon and i know a bridge of understanding that is in scripture.
Howdy all,
Hyrocket I would appreciate if you didn’t take my statements out of context in order to try and make a point.
Cheers
Simon Bond
Simon, thanks for that response. I do apologize, I do apologize…
for taking your statement out of context.
Siiiimmmoooooonnnn, i can not thank you enough for that response on post #9
really, no sarcasm intended. i humbly apologize to you.
What this site is to me…
This site is a fun area for me to catch up on the kooks of religion around the world. This site lets me turn aquaintences towards a more “thinking” and funny site about religion. This site shows others that it is totally OK to make fun of people who have religion in their lives. It also shows that there are many others out there that are laughing in the face of those with religion in their life.
Frank
“I don’t think that your website does much good. It just seems to spread an already growing hatred. I think that sites like yours don’t get “Religious Freaks†to change at all. They just get people who already hate “Religious Freaks†to hate them even more.
religious people.”
You are right! It spreads hatred. Hatred spreads more emotions. Someone with a larger range of emotions will speak up when they see the un just religions out there. Those people will speak up and tell those with religion “I think you are wrong” just because the people now feel empowered. Hate is a good thing, it will not let the non religious get bullied any more. With hate you have more power in yourself. With out hate you sit on the side lines. With Hate you speak your mind and hopefully change the ideals of others who are trapped in the religion machine. We want a growing hatred, because we want people to wake up out of religion.
Thank you for the site!
Joell
I think it is important to remember that the discrepancy between religious and non-religious is that between irrational belief and rational thought. A site such as this gathers people who would like to have this discrepancy explored, from either side.
@ gasmonso,
I’ll just be street forward, you are not getting enough personal gain compared to work done on this website (not questioning your altruism). I’m not sure what your new site design is, but I hope there is more of a community so it is no longer an one man’s quest.
ps: Can there be a searchable database of all your “hate” mail?
@gasmonso
Well, I disagree with about everything Frank says. Being an atheist is not being religious, just like *not* collecting stamps is not a hobby. Sin is a concept that exists only in religious minds. Etc. You can just throw away the whole message.
I’m a long time reader of your site. I’ll tell you what. It talks about times when some beliefs are obviously stupid, even dangerous. It talks about religious authorities that sometimes take stupid stances. It talks about when good sense should overcome senseless education.
When religious friends tell me that all religous people are good at heart, I can tell them: “hey, go take a look at this web site”. Your site is not about saying religous people are bad as a whole. It is a sometimes funny, sometimes educational site that helps inform people that not everything is either black or white.
Please keep up with the site.
I cannot say I have gone back and read everything you have done but from what I have read this critique is simply not accurate. I can see no major criticism of religion in general, only of the more idiotic and extreme aspects of it.
Does this Frank think there should be response to those trying to censor us or who seek to impose their religious views on the rest of us by law? Perfectly true that extreme, illiberal or simply impractical views are not the preserve of the religious but then all political views are also challenged. Religious views are not singled out, you will find far more vitriolic sites about socialists or the far right on the net.
This is the usual paranoia of the religious whereby any view in favour of the freedom to run our own lives is twisted into an attack on religious values. Gays wanting to regularise their relationship in law is an “attack on marriage”, people wanting to attend public meetings or societies without sitting through prayers and hymns are “attacking Christian values”
My suggestion to Frank and those like him, follow your own religion according to your conscience, try to convert others if you wish provided you do not make a nuisance of yourselves but just stop lobbying for laws based on your irrational religious viewpoints that affect the rest of us. You will be surprised how soon the hostility diminishes.
I must address a couple things that Frank wrote:
First off, from what I’ve seen, gasmonso doesn’t have extremist beliefs. Pointing out irrationality in the actions of others and errors in their reasoning/justification does not make one an extremist. If it does, then most of the people who frequent this site are extremists.
Secondly, you accuse gasmonso of thinking he’s better than religious people because they believe in a moral code. I don’t know if he has a superiority complex or not, but I want to address the assumption you (and many other logic-impaired religious people) used here: that people without religion lack morality, or that one needs a moral code from a religious text to live a moral life.
Moral code/behavior can come from reasoning, and I believe that the moral codes achieved this way are far superior to that of any religious text I’ve read. Also, many modern moral dilemmas cannot be solved by referencing ANY part of the (insert religious text here). “Hmmmm, I wonder what the Bible has to say about the morality/ethics of releasing exploitable software code to the public before they have had a chance to fix it. Is 1 month enough time, or should I give them more? The Book of Numbers isn’t helping me!!!”
Now Gasmonso, I don’t know what the purpose of your site is, but I know that I enjoy reading it and keep up with it in my RSS feed. To me, it’s entertaining and thought-provoking. Hopefully that is enough purpose to keep it going.
“Being an atheist is not being religious, just like *not* collecting stamps is not a hobby.”
Except that generally non-stamp collectors don’t write angry books or angry sites (of which this is generally not one) telling stamp collectors to stop collecting. Don’t kid yourself, there are “evangelical” atheists.
@Gas – I think you should keep on keeping on as long as it’s fun for you. When it stops being fun, change what you’re doing or stop doing it. 99.9999% of bloggers never see coin or change the world. If you have these things as your goal then yeah giving up is a good idea. If you’re like most bloggers you’re just doing this to get your stuff (whatever that is) out there for folks to read and enjoy/think about/pass on. You’ve done that. From the number of comments and hits you probably get you’ve done that well. Rock on.
Growing hatred towards religion is well deserved. We currently have a viable Presidential candidate (Huckabee) who wants to change the Constitution to conform to his god’s standards. If he were pulling Ron Paul numbers, I’d be more willing to dismiss the threat that religion, in general, poses. But he isn’t. He’s pulling lots of followers. Religion continues to become a bigger and bigger threat to freedom, both via Islam and Christianity.
In the face of this, gasmonso has been excruciatingly fair and even-handed in dealing with religion. I look forward to future developments on the site.
Gasmonso,
I’d first like to echo some of the previous posts in support of your website. (I’m late to the game on this one; I have a really busy life and I can only post sporadically.)
I can’t speak very well to the point of the site for you personally, but your website is a public service. In my view, pointing out the ridiculous and often dangerous things that are done by religious folk in following the guidance (or perceived guidance) of their particular religion is a good thing, as is encouraging debate about, and criticism of, religious beliefs. Sure the debate gets out of hand sometimes, but as already noted in earlier posts, much of the posting is polite and thoughtful, by internet standards.
Regarding a particular point late in Frank’s message, it is rather obviously wrong to say that you haven’t read the religious texts in question and don’t understand the material in them. You and many of the reasonable posters on this site show an admirably deep understanding of texts such as the bible and the koran, often quoting them in detail, and providing insightful comments. Therefore I find that statement by Frank particularly unjustified and unfair.
Finally, please keep up your good work on this site. If it gets to be too much of a burden, maybe you can find a way to distribute some of the workload to others (something I think you have already looked at -Sid was doing some article posting for a while) and find new ways to offset the costs. I for one would be happy to help. Another thing to potentially consider is a merger with another site of similar purpose, such as venganza.org, or maybe Sam Harris’ Reason Project, such that what you have within RF becomes a news+debate section of one of those sites. Then, you can ultimately let go of it but the good work can continue.
Korgan
Frank said: “I agree that there are a certain amount of crazy people who live in this world that use religion as a podium to spew out lies and deceit, but there’s also just as many people who are agnostic and atheist who do the same thing.”
I would love to see some examples of the latter. I have never heard of anyone murdering or disfiguring someone else because they don’t believe in god.
Sometimes the site does seem like little more than a catalog of run-of-the-mill lunacy, but I come here looking for the seeds of a reason behind the self-deluding behavior that draws humans to religion. For me, the site also offers a vivid and eloquent reminder that our culture’s blind acceptance of religious doctrines enables this particular form of destructive insanity.
Hello gasmonso,
Others have responded to you and Frank quite well already. I would ask you what you feel the purpose of this site is. Certainly there is an entertainment factor, but that’s not why I’ve been coming here and contributing for years now.
You ask, “Is [it] to serve a slightly more worthful purpose such as enlightening people to the dangers of religious extremism and blind faith?” It has certainly helped me in that respect. Sure, I had a general sense that religion is a threat to freedom, but this site enabled me to more accurately identify the threats and articulate arguments against them. Still this is not the main reason I keep returning.
The main reason I love ReligiousFreaks.com is that I consistently encounter interesting and thoughtful people whom I engage with in interesting and intelligent discussions. It’s tough to find that on the net.
Don’t let Frank’s email get you down. He makes at least three fundamental errors in his email that indicate that he never really read much on your website. A number of times, he makes the mistake of assuming that we consider every religionist a freak. While there are a few who frequent this site who hold this position, reading the comments one would soon realize that this is a small minority position.
Second, he assumes that your beliefs are ‘extreme’, probably without even knowing what those beliefs are. Other than your belief that religious extremism is a completely unnecessary source of evil, you tend not to share your beliefs. Last I heard, you were an agnostic, which is tough to characterize as ‘extreme’. It seems that many believers have a knee-jerk reaction to label anything non-Christian (or whatever religion) as extreme in hopes that that alone will marginalize it.
The final, and most egregious flaw is summed up in Frank’s statement, “in my opinion, I don’t think that your website does much good. It just seems to spread an already growing hatred for religious people.” A vast majority of us are criticizing people’s beliefs, not the people themselves. We don’t hate religious people, but many of us hate religion or the effects religion has on the world.
I’ve written about the unjustified equivocation of belief and believer many times on this website. I’ve written about the dire moral consequences of taking such a stance and about how it has no rational basis. Others have made the same points Clearly Frank has not read much of the comments or he’d of run across that point.
Will ReligiousFreaks.com change the world? It’s tough to say. What I can say is that it has at least influenced a number of intelligent and capable people. Everyone of whom has the potential to change the world. That potential makes RF worth it.
I’m a christian religious freak (by this site’s standards), and I think this site is a fantastic thing. We freaks *need* to have the horrible stuff we do thrown back in our faces. But the cool part about this site is that that’s not all it does. You also post stories about “Good Freaks” which do a fair bit to restore my faith in the religious portion of humanity, and you and posters like sidfaiwu do a fair bit to restore my faith in the non-religious portion of humanity.
In short, I think you site is a good thing that is, generally speaking, very even-handed. Of course, you should do what is best for you, but I just wanted to let you know that I’d be sad if this site went away.
Thanks for all the hard work you’ve put in to the site so far.
I’m part of a “failed agent for change”? Damn it, I’m going home and taking my hipster clothing with me, and I think I’ll put on some trendy music and drink whatever everyone else is drinking. That will make me feel better!
Frank has some valid points IF you intend for this site to open up the eyes of a larger audience. There’s little point in exposing religious idiocy to those who are already keenly aware that it exists. To achieve Frank’s goal, perhaps you would need to promote the site heavily and eventually get the attention of the mainstream media. Gasmonso, are you ready for your guest spot on CNN? You would be hated and reviled, but maybe then you would be getting through to enough people to do some good in this world.
I don’t think you are taking it quite as seriously as Frank expected, and that’s just fine by us. One day at a time, some wise dude reportedly said.
Andyr2120
I tend not to think of this site as promoting religious bashing, but as a center for discourse and reasonable argument. Like with any internet forum, you have to filter out the lack of manners or trolling and read the honest and factual debates. I’ve learned so much in a very short period of time about atheism and even other religions, simply from reading your (gasmonso’s) topics and the discussions that follow. I would encourage you to keep the site running AS LONG AS IT DOES NOT NEGATIVELY AFFECT YOU. The core community here seems to really appreciate your efforts. And so do I.
Can you take the viewpoint of someone who believes a creature that there is less evidence for than santa clause and the tooth fairy created the universe seriously? Hell there are at least blurry photographs for big foot and the loch ness monster. Why not them?
These people are all suffering from a mass delusion brought on by either being brainwashed before they were old enough to think for themselves, or they went through some trying time and in a form of post traumatic stress syndrome associated their ability to get through it with “god”.
I deny that any happy, well adjusted, and reasonable human being would hear the noise these “preachers” and “priests” spout, or read those vile disgusting “holy books” and start believing in god. This the result of a mental disorder.
Human kind will not live in peace until organized religion is discarded. This is a fact. Live with it.
I tend to think of this site as my source for religion-related news, which it is quite good at. When it updates.
-Peter
HOW CAN SIT HERE AND BASH CHRISTANTY WHEN YOU CAN SO BLANTLY SEE THAT ITS TRUE. I AGREE 100 PERCENT WITH THIS FRANK GUY IT IS PEOPLE LIKE WHO JUST REALLY ARE AFRAID OF CONSEQUNCES,AND AFRAID OF TRUTH. PEOPLE LIKE YOU DONT WANT TO WORSHIP SOMETHING THAT WILL LOVE YOU OR PROTECT YOU OR ANYTHING THAT YOU HAVE TO WORK FOR. IT TRUTHFULLY NOT FAIR FOR CHRISTANS TO HAVE TO DEAL WIHT THIS KID OF BULLYING WHEN YOU AGANOSTIC AND evolutionist’s AND ATHIESTS BELIVE THAT DOG DEVELPOED FROM WHALES. LET ME MAKE THIS REALLY UNDERSTANDABLE THAT JESUS CHRIST GOD THE FATHER AND THE HOLY SPIRIT ARE AS REAL AS YOU AND I. ALSO DOGS DID NOT EVOLVE FORM WHALES OK? THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME. YOU SHOULD REALLY READ THE BIBLE, IT HELPS WITH EERYTHING. WEATHER YOU WANT TO ADMITT IT OR NOT YOU NEED JESUS CHRIST!
i have to admit we are ALL foolish. someone told me, if i point a finger at someone, there’re 3 other fingers pointing back at me. wow, such wisdom(i’m laughing at myself, guys).
“A vast majority of us are criticizing people’s beliefs, not the people themselves. We don’t hate religious people, but many of us hate religion or the effects religion has on the world.”
I see Sid’s point here and Gasmonso plea for
http://religiousfreaks.com/2008/02/07/fight-islamic-pressure-to-censor-wikipedia/
Gasmonso has touched one nerve on this subject concerning islamic pressure and we will have to deal with such religious idiocy in this particular faith. Please note that we are ALL foolish. I feel, you need me to explain certain aspects of the christian faith, that we seem to misunderstand what the core issue is about***.
We are all foolish that seem right in our own eyes.
Frank said, “In my opinion, I believe that the ignorance that most religious people have today is on the same level as people like you who run sites like this. In your quest to find the truth behind “religious idiocyâ€, you create your own lens/veil of ignorance to the beauty and life that religious people of all faiths hold.”
There is a beauty, but i see this in Jesus Christ alone. Please guys, this is my belief and if Frank see’s the beauty in all religious people, I feel he needs to get a better lens, ouch. Please, remember that there are three fingers pointing at me. please just laugh at me;)
Guys, look at the difference and see the truth in what Gasmonso has pointed out in this islamic censorship. these simple cartoons and all related names in wikipedia
will cause death of many people. Here is just one link on this… http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23125346/
“Danish police said Tuesday they have arrested three people suspected of plotting to kill one of the 12 cartoonists behind the Prophet Muhammad drawings that sparked a deadly uproar in the Muslim world two years ago.”
As Irish said, “i am a brick” which is heavy and sand weighty…
i’m i really a brick Irish?
“YOU SHOULD REALLY READ THE BIBLE, IT HELPS WITH EERYTHING.”
I agree, if I hadn’t read the bible I wouldn’t have realized that it’s complete load of crap.
“AND ATHIESTS BELIVE THAT DOG DEVELPOED FROM WHALES”
Your skipping a few steps, but yes, whales and dogs share a common ancestor. It’s a little more believable than “god did it”
Oh and by the way hyrocket, i said trying to have a discussion with you is like tackling a brick wall. That significantly different from calling you a brick, which doesn’t really make sense.
“Please note that we are ALL foolish. I feel, you need me to explain certain aspects of the christian faith”
Really? Do you think we aren’t constantly bombarded with your fairy-tale crap everyday? It’s not a lack of knowledge that makes us atheist, it’s what makes you christian.
Irish, come on dude… you’re funny! ahahahaha!!!!
“ALSO DOGS DID NOT EVOLVE FORM WHALES OK?”
Of course not, that’s just silly.
-
-
-
It was whales that evolved from dogs.
After using the powers of google, I have discovered that the dog > whale thing is actually a frequently used argument by creationists. Well in that case I suppose I should take your argument more seriously, Morgan…
Whales evolved from land mammals.
“Well in that case I suppose I should take your argument more seriously”
No Snurp, No you shouldn’t.
Unfortunately it seems tone doesn’t come across easily in a such a short response :)
>HOW CAN SIT HERE AND BASH CHRISTANTY WHEN YOU CAN SO BLANTLY SEE THAT ITS TRUE.
Troll; proceed to ignore.
“ALSO DOGS DID NOT EVOLVE FORM WHALES OK?â€
It was whales that evolved from dogs.
———–
and anyone who had ever seen my dear, departed 120lb Rotty try to swim would be struck by the obvious similarities….
Urgh, cant be bothered with that.
Its a great site, keep it up. Religion too often is deemed ‘out of bounds’ for criticism and analysis for fear of offending someones precious beliefs… This site is a shining light to prove that wrong.
Chin up.
Hi Gas,
I do think Frank has made a good effort at putting forward his point of view rationally. I disagree with him, but that was not a bad effort at communicating the contents of his thoughts in a polite and structured way.
I have to say the evidence is not with Frank on this one. It was sites like yours, and including yours, which have helped to make a big change for me personally, and by extension, those I interact with. There are plenty of others out there right now, today, who have their own questions and find lurking around your archives tremendously satisfying and a relief in helping them come to terms with their changing world-view.
To me that seems like the whole point. As yourself and Frank are both aware, religions constantly conflict with both other religions and with rationalism. As in most conflicts, it can at times become necessary to meet your opponent with their own tactics, if they insist on forcing you into that position.
And that is something religious people frequently do, by abandoning rational judgement and dragging the debate down to an appeal to childish emotional argument. And when that has happened, using a name like “religiousfreaks.com” is a simple and clear way to still communicate the message of DONT BE STUPID, even when the religious person has deliberately decided to stop thinking rationally.
Actually though, I have never asked you about your approach – why do you specifically target freakery – is it only freakery that bothers you, or is it that you find it the best way to approach the bigger subject of superstitious and authoritarian delusion?
Agree with Tommy’s point further up. Dislike or even hatred of religion is well deserved.
Certainly we should not object to those who simply wish to follow their own religion, but that is often not the reality of it. Look at what still happens to people in religion’s name. If you support persecution and imprisonment and denial of freedoms to others on the basis of an irrational belief that has nothing to do with the common good you should not be whining about not being liked.
Nope. Couldn’t find any. I think the email was a complete waste of time. References to “websites like yours” didn’t seem to really describe this site. I think it was an email that was simply written out of misplaced anger.
Oh, he had two valid points which I agree with wholeheartedly.
But there were points that were very unclear and unless we get a response from Frank we cannot verify his meaning in regards of the unclear issues.
I doubt this site is a failure as an agent of change.
I’ve always been puzzled when someone lobs the accusation that the particular site/forum/venue/movement/etc in question pursues it’s intended change with a counterproductive strategy. From personal experience, the reality as I see it is that individuals will respond to different approaches depending on their personality and particular circumstances. While clean, respectable debate is often seen as noblest form of pursuasion, the reality is that it takes all sorts to create a movement. Some people will respond to the angry blind ranting against their belief system- I was one. Others will respond to the calm debate, and others will respond to (percieved) social pressure. The biggest factor in convincing a population of anything is most likely the consistency of exposure, which renders the whole argument over strategy moot in a lot of ways. Access to the loudspeaker. Repeat something enough times and people will believe it; there’s a reason this is the fundamental strategy in propaganda campaigns.
I don’t mean to say that discussion of strategy is meaningless, because that’s not the case. The rational merit of the argument still matters, and how you go about spreading the message does too. But what I see from people who tend to bring up the argument is tendency toward painting it as an all or nothing proposition; one where their favoured strategy is the right way to go about it and any other way is bust. While Frank hasn’t included enough detail about his beliefs in the email to put him in this category, it is pretty shortsighted to accuse this site of being a complete failure. That’s not something any of us can really know anyway.
What your site does Gasmono, whether or not you’re conscious of it or intended it to, is present the reductio ad extremis of a lot of arguments against religion, but with real life examples. More importantly, you’ve done this without falling into the trap of believing that all religious people are this way. You’ve always advocated a civil debate and have been very generous in providing your opponents space to present themselves. This is the line that seperates hatred from rhetorical device, and you toe it well. Sure at first glance a name like Religious Freaks is caustic, but not at all how you run the place.
Incidentally I use your site as one of many news sources. I rarely read the comments in your threads because so often they’re a mix of brilliance and utter retardation. Also incidentally, this site doesn’t need an overarching purpose. If you enjoy what you do with it, that’s reason enough.
Frank references a spectrum of people ranging from “Religious Freaks” to “Atheist Freaks”. I imagined a range from 1 (Religious Freaks) to 10 (Atheist Freaks). From what I read, Frank might rate himself a 3 or a 4 as a religious person, but not a “Freak”. He claims that atheist like you that run websites like this are a 10 and are just as much at fault for promoting hatred and ill will as religious freaks.
Its obvious to us ‘non-believers’ that you realize the difference between ‘freaks’ and more moderately religious people. The problem with ‘believers’ like Frank is that they view ALL ‘non-believers’ (or people ranging from 6 to 10 on the scale) as 10′s because for someone to be a ‘non-believer’ they think ‘believers’ are silly to believe in a mythical superhero… and subconsciously, ‘believers’ are insulted.
I think most ‘non-believers’ that range from a 6 to 8 have little to no problem with ‘believers’ that range from 3 to 5 because they are not pushing relgion and not discriminating against others. The purpose of this site is to poke fun or voice astonishment of actions of those in the 1 to 2 range.
You’ve titled it religious freaks to get an audience, to attract attention. It worked, I stumbled across your site searching for early atheist art work, and ended up reading here for a good half hour. Advertising was never meant to be gracious.
I’ve enjoyed reading most of it because it’s quite interesting, I’ve something in common with you, something I believe in (or don’t) and you’ve managed to entertain me, so thank you.
I read the email, and agree with some points. But people obsess over all sorts of stuff – I might have a red shiny car which I attend to every day rather than a blog. I don’t think you are guilty of spreading hate, you’ve simply compiled existing documentation in a bemused reportative fashion which you find interesting and assume others will find interesting too. You were right. Be proud.
Theists wont come here, read, and be converted, but that’s not the point. The point is to share your point of view, which you believe is right, and quite a few others think is right too. But that collective ‘group mentality’ is needed for change, you need to mass people together to achieve it. So happy comradery!
If they can have it, we can have it too eh! It’s not like you’ve just made up a bunch of lies with intention to cause hate. This stuff exists already.
Unfortunately, the guy who runs this site has been MIA for over a month now.
Probably because of Muslim extremist’s though….
It is truly a mystery, the dark corners and unknown depths into which gasmonso journeys during his long hiatuses from our beloved internet religion site. I like to imagine that, wherever he may be, he has a machete in hand and perpetual stubble over his grimace shaped by trials that would bring merely great men to shame.
I bow down humbly in the pernscee of such greatness.
Nice web , I like your share
I have entried your blog on my bookmark . Thanks