“Please, reconsider what you said about skin and cultures, it’s very offensive to Americans and Euopeans converted before the dark-skinned ones.”

Here is what I wrote:

“I know a lot of european academics, artists, historians, writers etc. says a lot of nice things about Islam and it makes you feel like your religion is something special, but I have to tell you this.
It’s simply because you almost all are dark-skinned and comes from a different culture. This way these people can show their surroundings how tolerant, globalized and non-racists they are. It may sound strange but its the truth.”

“I guarantee you if you guys were looking like europeans with blond hair and blue eyes Islam would be treated very differently by these people. Conservative religions that treat women badly are not looked upon kindly.”

Please read more closely what people writes. No where did I say I treated people of different skincolor differently. You failed completely to understand my point.

Anyway, lets not forget that the language of arabic has actually changed somewhat since the days of mohammed. it might not have changed as much as many languages have, but changed it has (including the entymology), therefore this claim that the quran is pure and unchanged because it is in arabic becomes rather tenuous.

I say it again, I don’t insist for you to agree with me, if you don’t it’s ok, fine with me, ppl are different, it doesn’t need for someone to be religious or not to understand that, but as a religious man, muslim I want to make it clear that Islam is not in need to be defended

That’s quite a mature position to take. I’ve always found it strange when Muslims (or any other religionist) feel the need to stifle all criticism, sometimes violently. If Islam were true, it should be self-evident and be able to withstand all criticism. Thus criticism should be welcome as a way to demonstrate how robust the truth of Islam is. You seem to at least partially share this view.

I applaud you for you language capabilities. But, unfortunately, you seem to be sticking to your linguistic elitism. Arabic is no better than any other language. As such, any text can be effectively translated into another language. And my question still goes unanswered. Why would Allah reveal himself via a language that most people do not speak and, by your assertion, is the most difficult to understand? Did ‘He’ want to make it difficult so that more of us suffer hell-fire? I fail to see any mercy there.

I understand that you will not answer these questions. Instead taking on the burden of teaching, you have given us the burden of learning. But few of us are likely to be motivated to learn Islam since we already have good reasons to believe it to be false. Still, I’m glad you appreciate tolerance. I thank you for the discussion and wish you well.

Yesterday, I was talking about this site with one of my friends (from whom I learn a lot) and about questions I’ve read here and how I tried to answer…

To say the truth I was looking for better answers than mine but ended up with my friend looking down on me, not because being in touch with you of course, but by the way I answered your questions !

He said to me something like : if you are asked about Quran by someone who is not believing in god, then it is a waste of time replying, better than than you should talk about god existence and all what involve (afterlife, day of judgement, does a human life ends on earth…) and THEN talk about Quran. if you are asked about Arabic language in Quran by someone who doesn’t know at last ethymology then it is wasting time to answer, better talk about word origin and ancient language, that it could be better for both of us, getting us more information…

It was like that yesterday with if you were asked about… better answer with… and the point was that to talk about how building the 2nd floor, better talk about building the 1st one before, I don’t know if you got the image.

I say it again, I don’t insist for you to agree with me, if you don’t it’s ok, fine with me, ppl are different, it doesn’t need for someone to be religious or not to understand that, but as a religious man, muslim I want to make it clear that Islam is not in need to be defended, so is Muhammad (SAAS) as I believe he is defended by ALLAH (God), that’s my conviction, you have yours which is different, that’s it.

I also say again that Freedom should be understood and studied again if someone thikns that its absolute, a rational man will know that his freedom is limited by someone else freedom, that’s a social rule, not religious, freedom of speech is a right, the ones who made the cartoons misunderstood that right and turned it into something big and who helped them was those muslims who went on rampage, I am more angry against them than the ones who drew the cartoons. Muhammad (SAAS) was deeply hurt in his life and forgave ppl who did it, hurting him by non-muslims is really nothing, very negligeable to me, I don’t have time as muslim to care about that, it was always the case, but what’s really frustrating is seeing muslims hurting their prophet (SAAS), there are too many of them who understand Islam in a wrong way specially in Iraq and Iran then in those asiatic countries and also Afghans, if you see a documentary in one of those regions, you won’t see the real Islam as Muhammad (SAAS) brought it.

My friend told me also that you were the one who brought that up, you were the one who started the cartoon thing, you are the one making the questions, all I have to do is sit back and answer if I can and be silent if I can’t. You are the one coming and trying to understand, you really should learn arabic. It’s my language but I talk yours, If I want to learn astronomy, I learn English because NASA ppl speak English, if you want to learn about Quran, then learn arabic or you’ll always stay behind. If you make wrong arguments to defend yourself to not learn and so on then you are the one losing in information. I personally speaks Arabic, French, English, Italian, Japanese, Romanian and am studying both Hebrew and German languages, because am arabic, other languages looks very easy to me even with pronounciations, if you learn it, you will know what’s special about it AND OF COURSE YOU CAN’T KNOW IF YOU DON’T LEARN.

I won’t write here again and focus on better studying, but will sure read your comments…

Thank you. ^^

That’s it

And better than a translation, an explanation of every verses with a translation is the best way to show Quran in a language other than arabic.

The claim that the Quran/Bible is divinely inspired would also mean that it is word of god.

How a man could explain the word of god and why a man would not understand the word of god without explanations?

It all keeps boiling down to the one and same thing, which I have faced often when trying to talk about Quran with muslims.

According to them, text is wrongly translated, Or taken out of context or as a last effort, I do not know Arabic. If that fail, I have even been attacked.

So it just bring back to my mind the sentence ‘religion needing defending is no religion worth believing in.’

Arabic language has very deep words, it is very simple to understand yet unbelievably hard to master, poets from that time were competing and saying really good phrases that a simple man couldn’t imagine.

This sounds like linguistic snobbery to me. Other languages can be just as deep, subtle, and poetic. There is nothing special about Arabic, or English for that matter.

Quran has a lot of hidden meanings that new science from Europe and America showed its truth, in astronomy, in medecine, nature of water, air, human, earth…

Yeah, I’ve read some of these verses that supposedly predicted science. Every single one of them involve interpretations that stretch the meaning of these verses to incredulous levels. I don’t buy it.

My English is far from excellent, I have been studying it for few years now and that’s how I can communicate with you, why don’t you do the same ? it’s a handicap that makes you behind,

I disagree. At least your written English is excellent. Why don’t I do the same? Because other languages interest me more than Arabic.

I am doing my best to show Islam as I see, I really don’t care if you hate my religion because you see it something it is not, I don’t care if you are atheist or worship some stones, but if you ask me honestly I will answer with what I think is right.

I appreciate the sentiment, but I want to make it clear that I do not hate Islam, nor any other religion. What I do hate is the insistence of many religionists that I have to agree with them. I also hate the overall effect that religions of all kinds have on the world. They seem like an unnecessary way for humanity to separate themselves. Worse yet, religions make the differences between cultures moral. It far too easy to paint one’s enemy as immoral if they don’t share one’s religion, where one nominally gets their morality. Once the ‘other’ is considered immoral, it’s easy to consider them less than human and inflict violence upon them. So just to make it clear, I, and many here, do not hate Islam, only the overall effect that all religions have on the world.

So merely an additional questions in regards of knowing arabic.

There is about 197 million non-arabic speakers in Indonesia, 133 in Pakistan, in Iran there is 62 million as in Turkey and in India there is about 95 Million non-arabic speaking citizens.

So these 549 million people are practicing wrong form of islam as they have not learned to read in arabic.

Also, why muslims claim that there is only one right version of the Quran as is states in the Sahih Bukhari, Volume 5, Book 58, Number 150

I heard the Prophet saying, “Learn the recitation of Qur’an from four persons: Abdullah Ibn Mas’ud, Salim , the freed slave of Abu Hudhaifa, Ubayy B. Ka’ab and Muadh bin Jabal.”

Does that not say you are to learn Quran from not one but from multiple sources to gain the true message?

Most of muslims now are not arabic and don’t speak it (like Indonesia, Malaysia or China) They know some basics to say Quranic verses in their prayers and that’s all, for the rest, they just read in a translated language.

At that time (before more than 1400) Muhammad (SAAS) was sent in an arabic country, where almost all of the other countries travel to, Meccah, was like a big center of commerce, a mixture for all cultures. Arabic language has very deep words, it is very simple to understand yet unbelievably hard to master, poets from that time were competing and saying really good phrases that a simple man couldn’t imagine. Then comes Muhammad (SAAS) with the Quran, and I hope you know that he wasn’t able to read and write, and that was a miracle itself since even now no human could bring just a simple phrase that looks like one in Quran, that was a defy from God to human and at the same time a proof that it’s not a human being saying but his words. Of course how could he defy ppl in another languages, isn’t it very logic the field of competition in what competitor excels most ? That’s the point of the miracle, and let me also tell you that countless of “Mustashrikin” foreigners who learnt arabic tried and failed to imitate Quran. Another miracle of the Quranic text is that no one could be able to alter it, everywhere you go, you will only find one version of the Quran, tell me please how many version of the holy bible exist, how many differences there are.

Quran has a lot of hidden meanings that new science from Europe and America showed its truth, in astronomy, in medecine, nature of water, air, human, earth… things that ppl before 1400 wouldn’t understand or even believe in. That’s how arabic language is and if you want exemple I can give you.

Don’t learn arabic if you wont, but if you have time, go and check forums of universities where students had to study arabic language because they had no choice, they had to study an extra language in some universities, then see what happened, how most of them changed their opinion about arabic ppl, knew more about their language and then their religion, you will be really surprised.

My English is far from excellent, I have been studying it for few years now and that’s how I can communicate with you, why don’t you do the same ? it’s a handicap that makes you behind, the information you have is not complete when you look at the arabic scripture and you wonder what does it means, if you learn it, you will see for yourself if I say the truth or no, if the translation is always poor and there can’t be a perfect one.

And better than a translation, an explanation of every verses with a translation is the best way to show Quran in a language other than arabic.

I am doing my best to show Islam as I see, I really don’t care if you hate my religion because you see it something it is not, I don’t care if you are atheist or worship some stones, but if you ask me honestly I will answer with what I think is right.

- You just read text from Quran translated, and keywords mistranslated then misinterpreted. The arab text of Quran can have a lot of meanings, that cannot be understood unless you speak arabic language.

This has always been curious to me. Not just in Islam but in every religion that has ‘holy’ texts. Why would God make ‘His’ word available in only one language? Does ‘He’ not care about those who speak other languages? It seems to make it purposely hard for outsiders to understand. It also seems like quite a coincidence that God speaks the exact same language as the culture who claims to have exclusive access to ‘His’ words. Why wouldn’t an all-powerful God write in a language everyone can understand?

Learn Arabic? No thanks. You seem to have excellent English. Why don’t you write a ‘correct’ translation, seeing as you think all of the expert translators throughout the ages have failed at it.

But now I see clear in your thinking.

- You just read text from Quran translated, and keywords mistranslated then misinterpreted. The arab text of Quran can have a lot of meanings, that cannot be understood unless you speak arabic language. It’s a very important matter. A lot of European and Americans converted to Islam after learning arabic language when they were strongly against it before, you can take a look at ” Deedat ” ’s life and maybe watch his debates and you’ll see by yourself how millions of ppl converted to islam by just assisting to one of his debate, inculding churchmen, am sure you’ll find his videos in a lot of sites or torrents.

- Islam was never spread by the sword, if you took the time to choose those verses from Quran which are mistranslated, why don’t you look again for the one where God forbid any muslim to force someone into Islam, or where God advice muslim to work and live nexto non-muslim so they can hear Islam words and see Islam manners… I won’t do it (putting these verses) I really hope you do that. Could you tell me please which sword is making Islam spreading this fast in 2008 ? even with all the misunderstanding going on against Islam. As muslim, the only sword I’ll hold is the simple word, the good attitude, the real great ” Jihad ” (Struggle) is the Jihad against oneself, to supress hatred, evil thinking, bad deeds of oneself, that’s its meaning.

Corso : ” It’s simply because you almost all are dark-skinned … looking like europeans with blond hair and blue eyes Islam would be treated very differently by these people…”

You just showed me that you treat dark-skinned ppl differently, I won’t say you are racist, that’s too much, but you think you understand ppl’s choices about Islam and their action because of that ? Please, converted ppl from your country will feel very bad about it.

Am from Tunisia (Northest Africa) (guess you know that from mu IP adress) and am white, I was born in a muslim family and followed Islam blindly but at a young age, I started to think deeply about it and started to understand other religions, I saw the differences, now I am muslim because I truly believe in it and know that’s it’s the way I had to choose, as most of converted muslims, not by feelings, but deep understanding.

Please, reconsider what you said about skin and cultures, it’s very offensive to Americans and Euopeans converted before the dark-skinned ones.

There are muslims excelling in all fields, maths, astrophysics, aviation, mechanics, medecines… all those ppl, are they stupid ? didn’t they thought before converting to islam ? even with all this (media against Islam!) you said perhaps they saw Allah in a dream ? All of them ? is that a rational answer ?

What I think is that those ppl was looking for the truth without listening to anyone, muslims or non-muslims, they only cared about the credibility of information which is something I really advice you to focus on, don’t make any judgements unless you really think you finished studying everything about Islam then am sure you will see it in a different way. It may looks hard to believe but you’ll never know unless you look deep into it.

I am muslim and you are not, doesn’t make any difference for me, I can easily work with you or talk like this, we can be friends also, our beliefs, Islam doesn’t forbid me to do it, Islam encourage me to get in touch with non-muslims as I said before. But you said that I seem to be a nice person, what if I were black ? what if I had a long beard ? will you even look at me ? I will look at you whoever you are and whatever you did or said and will not refuse to talk to you unless you are the one who refuse to.

And Yes I read history until this time, not only Islamic but in general, I suggest you you do the same.
And when you read, always remember to look deep in the author history, his path, his deeds, his ideas as he is the one giving the information, so the only guarantee is to also read about the author too so you can know if he is writing something personal or the real history, that’s what I do when I read something, I don’t believe it blindly and am sure anyone can do it.

About language, a lot of Europeans learnt Arabic and speak it better than native talkers, there is no way a person can’t do what someone else did before. but if you don’t have the time to, that’s another thing.

Honest looking for the truth is what matters is what could push you to do that, if not, then that means I just wated my time!