ORANGE COUNTY, Fla. — It looked harmless enough, but the words on a billboard unnerved so many people that a popular restaurant nearby actually lost business. The billboard was on Colonial Drive near Old Cheney Highway.
Although the popular Straub’s Seafood restaurant often advertises on it, it wasn’t their billboard. The sign was taken down after Channel 9 started asking questions.
The billboard came down around 4:00 Friday afternoon and nearby business owners are relieved. Straub’s Restaurant can replace the sign with the night’s specials.
At first glance, the sign looked like a children’s cartoon, but the message next to the fairy princess stirred emotions.
“When you condemn all religions and say they are a fairytale, that is wrong,” said Rich Stormes, a nearby business owner.
Complete story here.
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April 1st, 2008 at 1:20 pm
“Since the sign is so close, John Russel’s customers thought the restaurant paid for the billboard.”
Elementary, my dear Watson. Such pure logic.
:\
April 1st, 2008 at 3:50 pm
Wait. According to the sign’s owners, no one paid for the atheistic message placed there. So some atheist or prankster “hijacked” the space without anyone noticing? An atheistic miracle? Hmmmmmmmmm . . .
April 1st, 2008 at 11:22 pm
Somebody hasn’t read their Joseph Campbell.
Religious mythology and old fairy tales have a lot in common, and the things they have in common are quite complimentary to both.
April 2nd, 2008 at 12:11 am
Pseudonym —
Glad you brought up Campbell. I was fascinated by his series of interviews with Bill Moyers (where Campbell was popularized), primarily because of Campbell’s presentation of “universal” (at least in the human sense, we haven’t heard from different intelligent species yet) myths which gave the same essential message in different cultures. What this says about human commentary on the human condition is nothing less than astounding. And it raises so many important questions which need researched and subsequently answered . . .
April 2nd, 2008 at 3:45 pm
I love that they were so unnerved by this. To me it just validates my belief that god botherers are weak, weak individuals. So weak, in fact, that they require a bearded old dude holding a lightening bolt over their head to make them do the right thing. Sad people, they are.
April 3rd, 2008 at 6:23 pm
Michael –
I appreciate what you are saying. But don’t forget that everyone has an absolute right to “vote their dollar.” And that most individuals are followers. Geniuses make their own rules, as the saying goes. . .
April 3rd, 2008 at 7:21 pm
Now I’m curious to know how many of those that found the billboard offensive also had a fleeting moment of doubt among their anger. I think that was the whole point of putting it up. Now, that mysterious prankster needs to actually PAY for a month’s rental (so it can’t be taken down) and find a location away from businesses that might be affected. Otherwise, I say BRAVO!
April 4th, 2008 at 11:22 am
That billboard was awesome. Whoever did it should be proud of themselves. I have to drive down the road and see signs saying “God Listens, Talk To Him”, when not everyone agrees with that statement. Therefore, whoever put up the billboard great job! Set up a donation site, so we can put up more and get our voices heard more often!
April 4th, 2008 at 3:01 pm
“God Listens, Talk To Himâ€
Ahh yes, i’ve always loved the people who graffiti their favority bandname under “God listens”. Especially death metal band and the like.
April 4th, 2008 at 4:43 pm
One way “conversations” are a waste of time (unless you count soliloquies, which are done for the benefit of an audience). Even my cat talked back — as best she could –when I said things to her. I can talk to house plants as well, does that count? ;)
April 4th, 2008 at 5:12 pm
I choose to believe fairytales. They might be the only way to see beyond the physical. Well, besides faith
April 7th, 2008 at 3:29 pm
Note: I am not 100% certain I understand your point of view from your post, but I got the impression you believe in god of some sort and were sort of sarcastically referring to fairytales from the original story. If I am wrong, please correct me.
The problem is, you believing fairytales does not allow you to see anything. Its a fairytale. You may believe you see something as a result of your belief in god, but that hardly makes it so. If someone believes they have been molested by little green men, does that make it true?
April 21st, 2008 at 2:33 pm
This entire conversation seems wrong to me on so many different levels.
First: Michael says, “To me it just validates my belief that god botherers are weak, weak individuals. So weak, in fact, that they require a bearded old dude holding a lightening bolt over their head to make them do the right thing.”
I’m not in the habit of attacking people specifically, but in this case I had to make an exception. Are you serious? Michael, one has to be seriously dense to simplify and stereotype in this way and think it is a legitimate point of view. If I made an equivalently dense statement about atheists, I would expect a talking to from my peers. Moreover, your logic is flawed.
“If someone believes they have been molested by little green men, does that make it true?”
Well, simply because you believe there is no God does that make it true? So at the very least, we are at an impass. Believe it or not some of we “God botherers” base our beliefs in something more than blind faith or fear of “a bearded old dude holding a lightening bolt over [our heads].” I would hope you do the same. There are Christians out there with their heads in the dirt who make me ill, but we are not all like that.
Second: I believe fervently that God exists, and it pisses me off that someone put up a billboard like this, but not for the reasons one might think. It pisses me off every bit as much when Christians do the same. Throwing religion, or the lack thereof, in people’s faces with an impersonal and callous billboard ad is cowardly and deplorable, not to mention ineffective. Whether one is an atheist or believes in God, one’s actions and decisions should be advertisement enough. If one’s belief system has any merit at all, it will be evident to others.
Finally: Please correct me if I’m wrong, as I don’t frequent atheist circles, but don’t atheists berate Christians (or Muslims, or Jews) for their arrogance in believing that theirs is the only true faith? That billboard ad is every bit as arrogant. “All religions are fairy tales” is a definitive statement which cannot be proven, and for one to say it is to tell me that one knows absolutely everything there is to know about everything.
I look forward to some well-thought-out replies, I want to hear what you all have to say.
peace,
Daniel
April 22nd, 2008 at 9:28 am
Hello Daniel,
Michael’s comment did over-generalize. That certainly was not legitimate. But his underlying point is that there are at least some religionists that couldn’t even stomach publicly displayed dissent. Those sorts are too intellectually weak to stand up to criticisms of their beliefs. They even railed against the unfounded, blanket ‘criticism’ of that billboard. If they are so afraid of even such a shabby critic, what’s that say about their beliefs?
This intellectual cowardice is not representative of all believers (to all indications, yourself included). I know many, thoughtful believers who welcome criticism and use it as a tool to refine their beliefs and interpretations and as a tool to educate nonbelievers about their beliefs.
“don’t atheists berate Christians (or Muslims, or Jews) for their arrogance in believing that theirs is the only true faith?”
Yes, quite frequently. One fine point I’d make is that atheists don’t berate Christians or Muslims etc., but Christians, and Muslims, and Jews, and Hindus, and Baha’is, and Nordic Pantheists, etc. I also think that it’s a fair criticism.
Certainly, but “all celestial teapots are fairy tales” (Google ‘celestial teapot’ if you are unfamiliar with what this means) is equally a definitive statement that cannot be proven. As is “all species of dragons are fairy tales”. Yet, I doubt that you disagree with either of these statements for that reason.
It is not up to a-religionists to disprove every religion. It is up to one of the religions to prove itself true (if possible), which hasn’t happened yet.
The behavior of it’s adherents does not relate at all with the truth of the the belief system. Even if it were the case that one belief system had followers who were demonstrably superior in their behavior, by any metric, doesn’t make that belief system true. That system may be useful in engineering a good society, but the system need not be true. Heck, Aesop’s Fables are morally instructive and are untrue.
April 23rd, 2008 at 10:32 am
Acually, Daniel
All religions ARE fairy tales, unless someone can prove them to be true.
you said:
“Well, simply because you believe there is no God does that make it true?”
No, but the fact that there is no evidence whatsoever of God’s existence, does.
May 19th, 2008 at 6:37 pm
I believe that religion was created by humans not intentionally to mislead, but by someone who was mentally ill. Think about the number of people in our world right now who fit this classification. Now imagine one of them lived 2000 years ago, and was a gifted writer. Considering the lack of education that existed back then, it’s understandable that a person preaching the existence of an afterlife would gather followers. What’s hard to fathom though is that 90% of people living today still believe in this. Granted, it’s as impossible to disprove as it is to prove. I hate to use this analogy, because it’s going to be seen as degrading to religious people, but it’s also impossible to disprove that ants built the Egyption pyramids. Ridiculous, right? Not as ridiculous as the existence of a God sounds to me.
May 20th, 2008 at 11:35 pm
I just found this website and am floored by the serious discussions taking place and will be here frequently from now on.
I believe that religion was created as a control in a world where the strongest survived and sometimes at the horrible demise of others. Religion was (maybe still is)a necessary tool that people needed to protect themselves from homicidal maniacs that marauded throughout their surroundings. What else could stop such horrendous violence? Obviously there were no computers, police, radios, social services, or even the all powerful (and often playing field leveler) gun. Simply put, if you were not able to convince thugs that they would perish in a hell for eternity… you were dinner. So maybe it is/was a fairytale, but a necessary one.
I also found parts of the Zeitgeist movie that portrayed the bible as more of an astrological manual very interesting.
But as a stonemason, I’m pretty sure ants didn’t build the pyramids. Even the giant radioactive ones.
May 21st, 2008 at 5:09 am
Well, religion was originally created to explain things that people didn’t understand. for instance, where does the river come from? What happens to people after they die? One brainfart later, you’ve got ancestors bringing down the water from the mountain.
Later, rulers realised that if they could convince people that it was actually a GOOD thing that they lives in rags and were taxed into poverty, and religion was the perfect tool. What’s better then getting people to believe that a crappy life now, while following the kings law, would lead to eternal happyness, while disobeying would lead to eternal damnation?
Of course, people aren’t THAT stupid, and you need a little mythology behind it, preferably set in the distant past, telling how good it is to follow that particular religion.
Now, those people weren’t very creative, or maybe just took what worked, as you can see huge similarities between religions like christianity and zoroastrianism for example.
May 21st, 2008 at 8:54 am
Hello and welcome, Brian.
There are some great discussions on this website. Unfortunately, the administrator has been missing for a while, so there haven’t been any new posts. Keep an eye on the the new comments, and you’re bound to find some good discussions cropping up now and then.
May 21st, 2008 at 1:27 pm
Interesting to note that the newest ‘global peace index ratings’ show that within the countries that top this list, religion place only an insignificant and thus minor role in their daily routine.
Look at the countries that bottom the list, then one has a good idea to what contributes to this ‘instability factor.’
Religion, or shall we say Islam, is supposed to promote peace in this world of ours. However, looking at these ratings has definitely shown me, once and for all, that all religions, especially Islam, have a ‘fairy tale’ character.
When will WE ever grow up?
May 22nd, 2008 at 1:44 am
I see your point and albeit is maybe more widely accepted idea of why any religion is formed.
Might you consider that if necessity is the mother of invention, what would be more necessary than survival? It would be plausible to make up absolutely anything, if no one was the wiser to explain the occurrences,objects or formations that people did not understand.
Possibly an example would be the pyramids were formed by colossal stone dogs that dug into the nile bed to build doghouses , and as a few stated before, who could disprove it.
In other words… why did there have to be God , a supreme being that judges you on your deeds. This seems to be the one reoccurring theme I find in most religions.
Why not then the sun just made everything (not the traditional Sun Gods as we know), an entity that just created and that was all; a yellow ball with true engineering/construction capabilities that rested every night.
Or, everything that could not be explained would just be deemed natural, if you could not explain something, wouldn’t it be easier to just say so?
It HAD to be a mindful being who passed judgment on your death and sentenced you one way or another. Should you murder, rape, steal, or what ever… you would pay the ultimate price. Creation is an afterthought to this fairytale that provides factual evidence to prove this newly created god.
In some ways it beat John Walsh all to hell. pardon the pun
Am I the only one who thinks this way? If so, maybe i should have stayed in high school.
May 22nd, 2008 at 1:47 am
BTW
Thank you sidfaiwu and alcari, I look forward to more dicussions.
b
May 22nd, 2008 at 5:32 am
Hi guys. “All religions are fairy tales” is a truth-claim, as has been noted. The persons promoting this have done a lot of homework before they spent their money. They have checked out all religions at their roots and have disproven all their truth-claims. What’s more, this discovery is so ultimately important to announce because religion, by its very nature, is a truth-claim about ultimate matters and what matters ultimately. If, then, one knows that there is no ultimate truth, maybe, don’t you think, that one therefore cannot make such an ultimate statement truly. Better to spend the advertizing money in the bar.
May 22nd, 2008 at 10:17 am
Right on, Neando.
There are lots of people out there who sincerely believe that drinking is a religion in itself. Then why not spend it in a bar. Pass the church key, waiter.
May 22nd, 2008 at 10:49 am
Hello Neando,
I haven’t seen you around in quite some time. I hope you are well. I’ve already addressed the main point of your comment in comment #14. Here is the relevant section:
You made a small logic flaw in this statement:
A denial that any religions are true is not a denial of ‘ultimate’ truth. All religions do make claims about ultimate truth, but not all claims about ultimate truth are from religion. Philosophy, particularly metaphysics, is another subject in which ultimate truth claims are made. Note, also, that hard atheism is a claim about absolute truth. If it turns out to be a correct claim, than all religions are, indeed, fairy tales (at least theistic ones).
May 22nd, 2008 at 11:55 am
I second Brian’s motion that any religion establishment is a form of governing people. It is based on the basic fears of people, which is the point Alcari makes.
Let see how it is brakes down:
1. People afraid of what they do not know.
2. Religion authority (the Roman Papa for instance) comes and makes a statement: God did it.
3. People stop being afraid of the things, cause God did it.
4. But now people afraid of God, cause they know nothing about it/he/she/they.
5. Religion authority once again comes to explain God and the wish of God.
6. Now they afraid of Religion authorities, cause no one can get what they are and for. Cause, you know, God is personal and talks to people.
7. …
And that is explains why we have so many denominations of basically THE exactly THE same Idea.
May 22nd, 2008 at 4:25 pm
Oh no, creation is very, very important part of this. If the god didn’t create you, then why should he hold any claim to you, or be anything better then your next-door tyrant? Even worse, if the god didn’t create everything, then who created god? You don’t want people thinking like that, so the Uber-chief thing is critical in all religions.
May 23rd, 2008 at 12:15 am
“The LORD your God is in your midst, a mighty one who will save; he will rejoice over you with gladness; he will quiet you by his love;he will exult over you with loud singing.”
May 23rd, 2008 at 12:20 am
Alcari this scripture is just for you-my man! lol no male has to check themselves…
“For you formed my inward parts; you knitted me together in my mother’s womb. I praise you, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made. Wonderful are your works; my soul knows it very well.”
Alcari, did you hear about Einstein letter calls Bible ‘pretty childish’ on msnbc.com?
Alcari, is it safe to say that “great minds think alike?”
May 23rd, 2008 at 6:58 am
hyrocket, you might not realise it, but you see,
Preaching < arguments.
also, here’s a little something for you, concerning children and wombs. Most kids learn this around age 12, but here you go:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pregnancy
God really has nothing to do with it, that’s just a sad attempt at explaining what they didn’t understand at the time.
And yes, the bible is childish, but then again, most people are dumb, so it fits.
May 23rd, 2008 at 4:55 pm
Post # 29: “Alcari, did you hear about Einstein letter calls Bible ‘pretty childish’ on msnbc.com?
Alcari, is it safe to say that ‘great minds think alike?’”
Unwittingly or not, Hyrocket has just given Alcari one of the best compliments possible. To be compared with the (arguably) greatest mind of the 20th Century is a very nice thing. Congrats, Alcari!
May 23rd, 2008 at 11:48 pm
alcari
Indeed that would have to be a singular, omnipotent being. I do not see creation as essential as long as that entity holds final say over your eternity.
May 24th, 2008 at 4:33 pm
Hi Sid, Its been nearly a year since I dabbled here. Just got far to overloaded.
First, I consider atheism/agnosticism/pastafarianism to be religious by nature even if not always organized as such.
Second, Some religions are not theistic but monistic as materialistic or naturalistic atheism also is. Yet all make truth-claims about ultimate matters and what matters ultimately that cannot be directly verified.
I propose a world view test:
1. Rational consistency
2. Factual verifiability
3. Existential livability
May 28th, 2008 at 9:57 am
Hello again Neando,
I apologize for the lateness of my response. As always, I’m interested in a discussion with you, but current time restraints may slow my responses down.
So you are under the opinion that everyone is religious? I think you are conflating the term religion with world view. The traditional definition of religion includes a belief in the supernatural. For what purpose are you using this new definition? I know philosophers often adapt definitions to better clarify a concept. How does it serve to clarify the discussion? Since you are not using the commonly understood definition of ‘religion’ it seems like it obfuscates more than it clarifies.
Also, it seems that the new definition is covered by the phrase ‘wold-veiw’. Why not use this as it’s common meaning matches that of the concept you are trying to apply ‘religion’ to? If you can demonstrate the utility of the re-definition and why ‘wold view’ is inadequate, I’ll be willing to use it in our discussions. Otherwise, I suggest sticking with the phrase ‘world view’.
Once we get semantics worked out, we can move on to your proposal for criteria to use for evaluating word views.
May 29th, 2008 at 6:25 pm
About 4 years ago in Charleston, SC there was a billboard on the northbound interstate between Downtown and North Charleston. It was yellow and read in large black letters, [”Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable.” Leviticus 18:22 Romans 1:26-27. http://www.turntogod.net This was up there for months before I left is May 2005. I have a picture of it, a little blurry, but I don’t know how I can load it up for all you too see. Horrah for the double standard!
May 29th, 2008 at 8:45 pm
In Indiana, there was a time when a large number of billboards were emblazoned with the sentence: “Jesus is the answer.” I can’t remember the church that paid for the signs; what I do remember is always quipping “Well, what is the question?” No one who claimed to be a Christian ever gave a satisfactory answer; most acted disgusted that I would dare to say what I said.
My funny question was “Whose voice do you have to hear in your head to be put in the looney bin?”
I’m sure Irish, Alcari, or one of our comedians can come up with a better one . . . so let’s have at it!
Thanks for reminding me of that, MarcDLS!
June 2nd, 2008 at 5:15 am
Well Sid, I used the term “religion” with a little tongue in cheek. We were discussing truth-claims about the nature of ultimate reality. Theism generally claims that the origin and cause of the universe is wholly other than the universe, is himself personal, and that he is himself uncaused. Atheism in general claims that the universe is “the whole show,” is impersonal and undirected, and is self-caused. The two world views could hardly be more opposed. Historically, atheism grew out of a denial of theism, particularly Christian theism, and in this way of negation appears to have simulated a similar structure.
Atheism has its own creation story, it theorizes its own moralities, it wants to direct purposes for mankind’s existence, it has truth-claims about ultimate reality and human capacity to discover such things, and many more things that are claimed and defended “religiously.” Of course there are a variety of “denominations.” Marxism and fascism have been the biggies, even though they are political opposites.
Then there are some religions that are not theistic in that they do not posit claims of a cause or causes outside the universe, rather that there are immaterial beings or causes more powerful than humans to which we are subject, but that these are a part of the world. This would be a broad sweep of Eastern and animistic belief systems that are monistic.
June 2nd, 2008 at 9:36 am
Hello Neando,
I see. I’m not so sure that you are correct. Atheism does not have a creation story. Science strives to create a complete creation story, but hasn’t yet. It has pieces of the story, those pieces for which there is evidence. Atheism and science are not one and the same, though most atheists accept mainstream science as humanity’s best approximation of truth. Atheists often accept science for the same reason they reject religion: evidence.
There also isn’t an atheistic moral theory. Some are moral relativists, some are utilitarians, some are what I would call intuitivists (they trust their moral instincts), some have no theories with respect to morality at all. Also, most atheists have absolutely no interest in directing the “purposes for mankind’s existence.” Such would be an affront to the individualism prised by most atheists.
I’m having trouble understanding what you mean by “ultimate reality” in your phrase, “[atheism] has truth-claims about ultimate reality.” Do you mean about gods?
Lastly, I would hardly describe Marxism and fascism as ‘denominations’ of atheism. In the latter case, you’d have to explain how the members of a supposedly atheist fascists wore belts with the motto “GOTT MIT UNS” (God with us) printed on them. In the latter case, it is entirely possible to have communism and religion. The two are not mutually exclusive. The proponents of Marxism chose to adopt atheism because they didn’t want to share power and the loyalty of their people with religious leaders.
Finally, I agree on your last point. There are religions which are not theistic. I wasn’t identifying religion with the belief in a god or gods, but with the belief in the supernatural. It’s not all that is required to be a religion, but it is a necessary component.
All of the attributes you describe are world views. Religions are subsets of world-views. What distinguishes religions from other world views is the belief in supernatural causation. Under this commonly understood definition of ‘religion’, distinctions are made clearer. It adds to clarification. Applying the term to erase the distinction obfuscates differences and is not the common usage of the term. I suggest abandoning your new usage of the term for the sake of clarity. If you agree, I’d like to move on to your proposal for a list of criteria with which we can evaluate world views.
June 9th, 2008 at 6:42 am
Hi Sid
Atheists do have a creation story which both drives and delimits the programmes of scientific research. Much of what is claimed to be science actually is philosophy or is a range of evidence selected on the basis of a heavy philosophical bias, i.e., naturalism, which is unfalsifiable. And atheists do not reject religion or metaphysics merely because of a shortage of evidence, but because their a priori commitment to naturalism determines what will count as evidence.
I said that atheism “theorizes its own moralities.” The (dis)array of modern moral theories have arisen in a milieu of the denial of theistic roots.
By “truth-claims about ultimate reality” I mean about the nature and limits of what constitutes reality.
Germany’s fascism took hold in an environment of the demise of Christianity, thanks to the liberalism and apostacy of the clergy. Consider:
“You see, it has been our misfortune to have the wrong religion. Why didn’t we have the religion of the Japanese, who regard sacrifice for the Fatherland as the highest good? The religion of Mohammed too would have been much more compatible with us than Christianity. Why did it have to be Christianity, with its meekness and flabbiness?” Adolf Hitler (quoted by Albert Speer. See also http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1327591/posts#comment
Marx was also driven by anti-theistic sentiments. Show me a Marxist state that hasn’t persecuted Christians and banned the freedom of religion. Wherever the Marxists (and Islamists) have held political power they have sought to eliminate Christianity, not merely tolerate it.
June 9th, 2008 at 9:34 am
Good to read you again, Neando,
Science did, indeed, grow out of a branch of philosophy: natural philosophy, which is the application of philosophical techniques to the natural world. Science does not presume naturalism, only that the natural world exists. Which, unless one is insane, everyone accepts. No, science presumes no metaphysics at all.
“The (dis)array of modern moral theories have arisen in a milieu of the denial of theistic roots.”
Better to seek certainty amongst chaos than to be certain about that which is false.
Thanks for the clarification around “ultimate reality”. It seems that everyone makes claims about the limits of what constitutes reality. It isn’t a pastime exclusive to religion.
Ah, now you are back-peddling on your claim that atheism cause fascism and now are claiming that non-Christianity caused it. At least that’s some progress. Furthermore, Hitler’s personal beliefs does reflect on the fascist movement itself, which was embodied by mostly Christians.
Marx was anti-theistic (at least as far as I know; I never studied the man). Communism, however, need not be. Once again, you are conflating the beliefs of a major player in a form of government with that form of governance. Communism is an economic theory (which are inevitable political as well), not a religious one.
What you are doing are finding non-Christian thoughts of the leaders/inventors of political movements and blaming the movements on those particular thoughts. Using the same method, we can blame Protestant Christianity for antisemitism and polygamy. After all, one of the founders of the Protestant movement, Martin Luther, supported both.
“Show me a Marxist state that hasn’t persecuted Christians and banned the freedom of religion.”
Show me a Christian state that hasn’t persecuted the pagan religions.
Also, every Marxist country has been a tyranny. It’s inevitable when there is no balance of powers. It’s why Marxism fails. Are you really that surprised that Christians (and many, many others you left out) are persecuted under a tyranny?
But we are straying from the topic. Shall we move on to comparing the validity of the religious and non-religious world views? Or would you rather discuss Nazis and Marxists more? I’m more interested in philosophical debates than I am in a historical one so if it’s the latter, you’ll have to find someone else to debate.
June 9th, 2008 at 8:06 pm
Christian communism was presented first in the new testament in the acts of the apostles, so the two concepts are quite compatible as long as one tries to follow the Marxian communism. The other forms tend to give rise to the insidious oligarchy which is what most people think when they hear the word communism.
June 15th, 2008 at 6:04 am
Hi Jagannath.
The likeness of early Christian “communism” to that of Marx and Engels is over-rated. To be sure, both had goals of transforming society and both saw the social needs of the poor and oppressed, and the injustices of the wealthy oppressors. The similarities go little further.
Marx, of Jewish stock, whose father converted to Catholicism, spent his early life under the training of the Jesuits before his university education in jurisprudence, philosophy and history in Bonn and Berlin. Marx saw the institutional church, with its political entanglements, as part of the perverted consciousness of the world. I have some sympathies with that, especially as I compare the early Christianity with much of what passes for the institutional church, especially in the West.
Early Christian “communism” was the result of a voluntary expression of mutual love which overflowed into their social action (praxis). Though boldly proclaimed amid fierce opposition from religious and secular authorities, their message and social action were never forced upon unwilling subjects. Theirs was always a voluntary association of believers and doers. Their giving was never coerced but was solicited by moral reasoning. (See Paul’s recommendations in 2 Corinthians 8). This state of affairs continued until the Fourth Century.
Also, the Christian mission was to change society by means of the inward spiritual change in the individual as the basis of the outward material change of social relations and material distribution. They loved their fellow man because they saw everyone as created in the image of God and thus possessing inestimable value.
By contrast, the Marxists’ mission to change human society was always essentially materialist. He (mistakenly) thought that “the new man” could be produced by a revolutionary change in human political and social environment. Marx saw humanity as merely a complex form of matter and nothing more. Thus, Marxist socialism involved a coerced redistribution of wealth and power according to his “scientific” philosophy of history. This philosophy required the abolition of religion.
If people call themselves Christians of whatever stripe or tradition and yet live and think in a way that betrays the way of Christ (and many churches are full of them), then they are justly condemned as hypocrites. But the presence of hypocrasy and injustice, if seen as social and moral disorder, implies that there also must exist justice and fidelity as part of a moral order. This is totally foreign to Marxist materialism.
June 23rd, 2008 at 5:55 pm
““When you condemn all religions and say they are a fairytale, that is wrong,†said Rich Stormes, a nearby business owner.”
And mister Stormes is absolutely correct, to call all religions fairy tales is dead wrong. They are myths, plain and simple of which no one who is an American can deny.
And whoever put up this sign would be advised to confess now an maybe thereby be able to avoid the wrath of the keeper of all myths, not to mention the billboard god, as they are most certainly at risk to suffer for all eternity.
June 23rd, 2008 at 6:25 pm
It’s all about you Jesus! RJC guess what, you don’t have to confess and avoid the wrath you talk about. One day you will have a chance to confess your sins. Is there truth in what he say’s password gang, come on, there is. It’s everything that’s wrong which is the truth. Honestly, would you want to follow this person to lead you if he was in that position, to show you what he say’s is truth? Where is Simon, he knows what truth is all about.
it is nice to know you password gang.
June 23rd, 2008 at 6:57 pm
“hyrocket Says:
Huh? You want to run that by one more time only this time use the noun verb format..
June 23rd, 2008 at 7:06 pm
“Show me a Marxist state that hasn’t persecuted Christians and banned the freedom of religion.”
I would counter with, show me a Christian theocracy that hasn’t persecuted Semites and also banned freedom of religion and mandated their own waring religion over the masses.
I was kind of hanging with you at first but anyone who quotes freerepublic.com, a well known anti-American Christian fascist web site becomes very suspect.
June 23rd, 2008 at 8:34 pm
Howdy all,
Hyrocket I’m still here. I have noticed that your posts still seem mostly incomphrensible and largely without any relevent content. So you are (still) not really adding to the converstion.
Cheers
Simon Bond
June 23rd, 2008 at 9:06 pm
Simon,
Ok, so it wasn’t just me that was struggling with ole Hy?
June 23rd, 2008 at 9:10 pm
I’ve gotten no cogent answers from Hyrocket at all, and I think he answered me only once . . . I was given advice, when I showed up, to ignore Hyrocket. Having lurked before first posting, I pretty much already felt that it would be a waste of time to talk to Hyrocket, but I tried anyway . . .
“Not responsible for advice not taken.” — Larry Niven
June 24th, 2008 at 6:02 am
Kurt,
I’m thinking Hy may have Rocketed out a little too much.
June 27th, 2008 at 9:41 pm
Hello RJ,
“anyone who quotes freerepublic.com, a well known anti-American Christian fascist web site becomes very suspect.” This is classic genetic fallacy stuff. Well I suppose I could have looked elsewhere as I have no regard for their views. If I were to quote Mein Kempf for some reason, would you tar me with that brush too?
“I would counter with, show me a Christian theocracy that hasn’t persecuted Semites and also banned freedom of religion and mandated their own waring religion over the masses”
“Christian theocracy” is a concept and practice that is incongruous with NT Christianity. The separation of church and state is essentially a Christian idea in its origin. What distinguished the early Christian churches from Judaism in this regard was that they were non-political, non-ethnic (though most were Jews initially), decentralized, international, and intercultural. This does not prohibit individual Christians from being politically active, rather it is that the church is not intended to be a movement for political power.
The quote above about Christian theocracy and my statement about Marxist states are both true. What it points to is the Christian truth of human nature and unbridled power. Whether a person is religious, irreligious or Atheist, when power is unrestrained, human corruption is accentuated.
My point, however, was that Marxism–which is intrinsically atheistic–thereby lacks moral restraint. The atrocities that atheistic or secularist political ideologies committed in the last century make those performed under religious banners in previous centuries rather paled.
July 10th, 2008 at 2:08 am
“Christian theocracy†is a concept and practice that is incongruous with NT Christianity.
Try telling that to the Catholic church of the middle ages. The two got along fantastically - like a heretic on fire! :)
July 10th, 2008 at 4:38 am
It’s a bit late to do that, Jayman. ;o}
September 5th, 2008 at 3:26 pm
I see the billboard, as some others did, as a test of faith. Those people with beiiefs based on little else but a suspension of disbelief can easily fall prey to confusion when faced with any viewpoint differing from scripture. These people make great followers because they take any serious thinking about reality out of the equation. The churches need these people as does the Republican party. When you have to refer to what you think as a belief system, it’s probably all downhill from there.
October 29th, 2008 at 8:06 pm
Why would God test is followers? He’s supposed to be all-knowing. Given that, he should know the result before he gives him the test. If he does, why give the test in the first place? Once again, common sense applied to religion tears it to pieces.
November 5th, 2008 at 9:21 pm
well, god really loves stupid people (they give money to him..) that’s why he made so many…
January 4th, 2009 at 4:06 am
My dictionary defines faith as: “Firm belief in something for which there is no proof.”
Funny, how people want to believe the impossible, just because it makes them feel good.
Well, perhaps not so funny. They have so little faith in themselves to cope with life that they create an impossible figure to help them along the way. How pathetic!
Sorry, folks, but we’re here on our own. Don’t waste time praying for help to some father figure that doesn’t exist.
Check it out for yourself. I did.
I did what few Christians dare to do. I read the whole bible from cover to cover. What utter nonsense! It’s part history book, but includes many events that never occurred. Just because some events and reigns are correct doesn’t validate the whole book. Almost every book ever written contains some elements of truth, yet is fiction. The bible is true-fiction!
Don’t be gullible and accept things at face value. Check them out for yourself.
Remember! The bible is said to have been inspired by “god.” If such is the case, why does it contain so many errors, contradictions, exaggerations and outright impossibilities?
If I made an outrageous offer to people, including one of everlasting life, wouldn’t they first check it out to make sure it was on the up-and-up?
Then, do the same thing with the bible, the foundation of christianity.
Come on, folks! Put your thinking caps on!
February 13th, 2009 at 4:47 pm
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e151/MisterKuj/GodListensToSlayer.jpg
I like this road sign better.
February 15th, 2009 at 10:06 am
Well.. first off.. to those who believe that there’s no God, i ask you this: Why do we as humans feel shame when naked? No other animal does, but we do… we should just feel cold.
– also, as a species, why are we so innate to right and wrong, punishment and reward.. if someone killed your family, would you want justice? It shouldn’t be wrong though, if there’s no God.. then we should be lawless like other animals (yet alone feel shame when merely naked). Kids (young kids) believe that killing is wrong. There should be no awareness of right and wrong… or guilt… guilt.. think about it.. if there’s guilt inside (lot of people have that, can’t deny).. If there’s guilt, there’s judgment.. if judgment, then a judge… be aware my friend, i don’t care if you ain’t religious.. just cause you don’t believe in water doesn’t make it any less wet. Have you asked God to reveal Himself to you? I have.. and HE did.. in my room.. in my dreams, visions (lots of ‘em) and i don’t get involved with organized church… ASK HIM and let’s see what happens.. Out loud friend, if you got the cajones… literally all alone ask God (in Jesus name) to teach you about one thing.. anything, you say it.. and let’s see what happens. DO NOT JUDGE what you DO NOT KNOW.. at least be atheist and don’t be a hater of what you do not know or DO NOT try to know. Try and fail then go preach about the lack of God.. Seek Him for a while and if he doesn’t come to you, do what you want.. but without doing that first, you’re setting yourself up… i rather be a Christian and be wrong then an atheist and be wrong..lol. I would rather you think about how much we sin mentally with thought.. envy.. lust.. savage fulfillment of flesh vs spirit? No-judged more than Jesus, no-one. Ever.
peace.
February 15th, 2009 at 12:18 pm
Al - ever heard of memes? Or nurture? Or culture? Evolutionary psychology perhaps? Maybe crowd psychology, or bandwagon effect? And so on and so forth.. because that may explain the first part of your entry.
And as for the rest of it, good for you. I’m genuinely happy for you that your faith was answered in a way you wanted. But why the the concern about how your religion is judged? Your religion, part of the Abrahamic religions, along with the plethora of others, will always be open to scrutiny and questions for as long as we (as an intelligent and vocal species) have a voice. Is your religion that shaky in its foundation that it cannot stand the test of us mere mortals?
Peace indeed.
March 21st, 2009 at 6:13 am
Al, your post is one of the best I have read on here! I totally agree with you! If people don’t believe in God or Jesus, why are they trying SO HARD to convince everyone else that [they] do not exist. If you don’t believe in something, is it necessary to post it or tell everyone about it? I think it’s funny. I don’t believe anyone has landed on the moon, but you don’t see me starting a website about it. lol
March 22nd, 2009 at 3:57 pm
Al, your post 59 is one of the worst, and one of the most glaringly erroneous, that has appeared here.
Humans are not so distinct from other animal species in the manners that you claim. For example, regarding shame, an old, incontinent dog will exhibit signs of shame after it defecates without control. Many other species demonstrate both cooperative behaviors, and emotions. Witness the mourning behavior of a wolf pack after a pack member dies, the cooperative partnering, hunting and schooling behavior of many species, and much more.
However, even the obvious distinctions between homo sapiens and other species are not evidence for creationism. The details of our bodies and their now well-established evolutionary origins are glaring evidence for a lack of involved design, rather than for a designer such as the god that you claim. Furthermore, the evolutionary path and timeframe that the human species has arrived from is now well established, and contradicts silly Christian biblical stories.
Your final statement is just Pascal’s Wager, warmed over. It is a failed argument for the existence of your particular god, and appears here all too often. Also, the mythical god that you apparently follow can hardly be claimed as a basis for morality, given its sorry history of crusades and inquisitions, just to get started. In regard to ThreeD’s comment, the violence and wrong-think that have resulted from religious idiocy over the centuries are more than reason enough to “tell everyone about it”; the consequences of religion have been awful for humanity, and that is more than sufficient justification for this site and the religious idiocy that it so frequently exposes.
Fortunately for humanity, the Christian wingnut population of the US is in decline and the fraction of the US population without religious affiliation is growing. As many others have said, it will be a great thing when religion and other superstitions are finally consigned to the dustbin of history.
Religion is for the gullible and the stupid, and for those who would profit from them.
March 22nd, 2009 at 7:49 pm
Korgan, Christian population might be in the decline- But I will stand forever with “OUR” Saviour- the world Saviour- My Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.
Do you not understand why Jesus Christ came?! EVERYONE, STAND FIRM ON HIS WORDS, for He is God and is the Creator of everything. He came to make us LIVE for each other and to say “I Love you”. In everything we do -Give Thanks and Praise for such Agape Love!
I say, take your stand - stand with God who is Jesus Christ or stand on what you “feel” is right in your head. I say this because He has shown me things I thought was right in my own eyes But searching out His words of love in the dirt putting it through a screen looking-looking for every detail that I might over look at the evidence that is in this world for things of the past in the beauty of it all, the hands of the potter making the pot.
My Brothers and Sisters In Number 6:24-26
The LORD make his face shine upon thee, and be gracious unto thee:The LORD lift up his countenance upon thee, and give thee peace.
If you don’t know who is Jesus Christ? I would be happy to share His words and pray for you, that you might have LIFE and see the love he has for you. Will you come and have a relationship in God -know Him like you never have before.
I congratulate you Korgan, you used the PsW and that gives you a win. I was reading Irish post:)
March 22nd, 2009 at 8:06 pm
Your doing it wrong, hyrocket, so wrong it is amusing.
March 22nd, 2009 at 8:26 pm
The hyrocket-bot has already been dealt with in prior posts such as this one. No new material, just more spewing of the same old unsupported nonsense, is in its latest posts.
March 22nd, 2009 at 8:50 pm
Jag, I disagree based on what Irish said.
March 23rd, 2009 at 2:03 am
whom ever makes these these type of video for any reliion he or she must not be a human
March 23rd, 2009 at 2:59 am
This small episode with PsW makes it blatantly clear why you do your show and tell routine, you have trouble grasping the order, intent and meaning of sentences? Just go through the PsW bit again, and try anew.
June 21st, 2009 at 5:45 am
Actually a Fairytale is supposed to be a tale for children that has always a morale, good vs evil elements inside, where the good side always wins at the end.
The good side is always represented by a prototype of ancient greek good mythology hero, or at least by a goodloking and smart children.
I don’t really see anything in common between a Fairytale for children, and an insane cult of mentaly impaired and physically degenerated sons of bitches.
June 24th, 2009 at 7:52 pm
This is a common mistake made due to the lack of knowledge about American pop culture.
In USA the person responsable of fairytales for children was the late Mr. Walt Disney.
Religion has nothing to do whatsoever with fairytales, simply becouse Religion is a product of abused, unconscious, degenerated, perverted minds who are completely unable to communicate in a normal way to anybody, including of course children.
June 25th, 2009 at 4:45 am
evolution is the best fairy tale of them all
June 25th, 2009 at 8:14 am
Gary, regarding your post 71, that’s only the case if by “fairy tale” you mean one that is demonstrably true and actually supported by reason and evidence. But then, that definition would exclude religion.
Religion is for the ignorant, the stupid, and the gullible, and for those who would profit from them.
June 25th, 2009 at 9:33 am
These are the basic evidences about being normal people sane in mind and body.
NORMALITY IS RATIONAL MIND IN RATIONAL BODY
COUPLING IS NATURAL EVOLUTION TROUGH NATURAL SELECTION
NORMALITY IS FREE TO SELECT THE RIGHT PARTNER AND EVOLUTE
Thats why religion is against the normal people and denies the reality of universal - natural laws of selection and evolution.
The main purpose of the VATICAN is to make all th enormla people left on earth suffer like the fucking priests suffer becouse they were born degenerated freaks and weirdos.
Normal people, being goodloking and intelligent, never have problems in finding a coupling partner.
If some asshole is still doubtful about religion being created as the main evil on earth by degenertaed perverts, here are the main hints:
1 VATICANO - means literally Go To Fuck Yourself, VATI - means go, CANO is Fuck Yourself. The name of the VATI CANO is nothing less than a perverted name of an ancient hospital, that was VATI SANO.
2 VATI CANO is populated by degenertaed people, sick in mind and bodies, who are unable to live a normal life, have a normla job, or have a coupling partner in odrer to have sex and create a family.
It is impossible that midless degenertae perverts are able to comprehend how normal humans are and obviously unable to teach npormla people how to live of course.
August 17th, 2009 at 6:06 pm
There are a lot of great discussions going on here, I’m glad I found this site.
I think the problem with the whole religion concept is the lack of people really thinking for themselves. We have a tendency to want the easy way out: “give me a pill to make me better so I don’t have to make lifestyle changes”, “listen to a pastor/preacher/minister/priest’s INTERPRETATION of the bible so that I don’t have to think for myself.” Examples of this behavior are everywhere, and the people in charge are making a killing.
The bible, koran, old testament, etc were NOT written by god. God is not a man or a woman and it therefore it doesn’t matter what color god is. God is just energy. And science has proven that literally ALL forms of life (and stones actually) are all connected by the same form of energy. We all feel it, that’s why so many people claim to KNOW there is a god.
The problem is that people also haven’t taken the time to read about other cultures, other religions (which ARE fairy tales btw) or think for themselves. If they could lose the fear that foolish clergymen have planted in them that they would go to hell where their merciful god would let them be tortured for eternity, maybe they could understand.
I know this is a black and white way to look at things but, I can’t have respect for a person who is religious. It shows such a glaring lack of intelligence for a person to blindly follow another person’s teachings, and if they cannot see the contradictions in their “faith” then they are missing a huge component of religion.
Spirituality is different. If more people understood spirituality, things could actually get done. Instead of following a fairy tale-filled book (as they all are: bible, koran, etc) we as people might be able to actually achieve peace. The only god we should be aware of is the energy we are all connected by. It is neither good nor bad, and that is what we have to be careful with. We should be doing good things because it is the right thing to do, not because of a big scary misogynistic man in the clouds who will send us to an eternity of torture if we don’t.
It’s hard not to look at people with disdain when they start spouting religious crap, or rolling my eyes when I read a hate-filled, idiotic billboard (I mean the christian ones, not the one the story is about).
I don’t think people will stop to think, not as long as we are still brainwashing our kids from birth with ideas that terrify them. How can they not grow up to be zealots when they are convinced they will go to hell and so will everyone else who doesn’t believe as they do?
And to the christians who are posting your stupid “trust in the lord” crap, try actually thinking for yourself. Know that god didn’t write the bible and that a great many gospels were left out. Know that christianity is based on clergymen who are profiting from your idiocy. It always was, and if you would read and study your “faith” you’d know that. Also, I don’t want to read any more of your stupid billboards and signs posted everywhere, and stop buying up all the pristine land to build your enormous churches so that you can be exempt from taxes and suck more money from your stupid flock.
August 21st, 2009 at 4:29 pm
Given that it actually impacted their business in a strong way and negatively, I’d have to say it probably “damaged” the neighborhood. I know I personally don’t like seeing ads regarding religion in anyway, especially since I see religion as an intensely personal thing and that it should NOT be communal. That being said its just the same as an atheist insulting what you believe to your face or to a christian doing the same, its just annoying to have to deal with someone or something that completely undermines what you believe in when it is their choice to believe or not believe and in this case it hurt the business so I’d be quite pissed if I was the owner as well.
October 4th, 2009 at 3:44 am
Religion explained for dummies.
Very easy way to explain religion to unaware people:
http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/ca861703b8/religion-from-danny
October 4th, 2009 at 8:56 am
Dr. Robert Langdon explained for dummies.
Very easy way to explain Dr. Robert Langdon to unaware people:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Langdon
December 15th, 2009 at 6:28 am
For all those who have to see something first to believe in it…I suppose you don’t believe in air.
Believers know God because of His actions in our lives.
Try a little faith. It will do you good.
Having said that, if you won’t try it, don’t knock it.
December 15th, 2009 at 10:28 am
Kurt, the “content” of your post is BULLSHIT plain and simple.
Present proof of even one of your god’s actions in our lives. So far, no one has shown such proof, and all the evidence contradicts your sick jeebus on a stick tales.
Most of the RF audience has “tried on” faith and rejected it. It’s really clear that what your bible says about the world is wrong and that your god story is just that, fiction for some ancient people (others here appropriately call them goat herders) that didn’t know any better.
It’s nearly 2010, loser (and damn the stupid datum that is based on). The world has suffered enough already from your religion of hate. Your religion fucking well deserves to be “knocked”. Fuck your stupid, ignorant, hateful jeebus myth and fuck off.
December 15th, 2009 at 11:58 pm
Hate? Hm.
I compared the last two posts, and I found quite a bit more hate in the last one than in the first.
December 16th, 2009 at 12:51 am
D has lastworditis.
December 16th, 2009 at 12:55 am
Yes I do.
December 16th, 2009 at 12:57 am
D has lastworditis.
Yes it does.
December 16th, 2009 at 1:05 am
Yes it does.
December 16th, 2009 at 1:06 am
Stags do does not your nose.
December 16th, 2009 at 10:25 am
Who has the same name?
December 16th, 2009 at 10:23 pm
Who, in the deepest parts of the God forsaken hell, is doing this?
And just in case you did actually say I have lastworditis, Mark, then let me tell you.
I do.
December 16th, 2009 at 10:59 pm
Who, in the deepest shell?
And just in case you then let you.
December 16th, 2009 at 11:12 pm
your nose in shell in case in lastworditis
same name do.
same name do.
December 20th, 2009 at 6:42 am
The only religion God considers his,is taking care of widows and orphans and not being polluted by the world.
Religion is a distraction from the truth which is God.
December 20th, 2009 at 7:08 am
So god ignores the sick folks with cancer, the crash victims, the crime victims? What a f__ing jerk your god is.
December 20th, 2009 at 7:08 am
religion pollutes the world of thought.
December 21st, 2009 at 9:43 am
Ya, BenG, nicely said. You rock. And what you said is one of the somewhat less nasty evils of religion.
For the religious nuts, listen in and listen hard: It’s nearly 2010. Get past your foolish goat-herder -age superstitions such as Islam and Christianity and stop being an embarrassment to humanity.
December 22nd, 2009 at 7:51 pm
and those “thoughts” are foolish in the eyes of thoughtless fools. In the Light reveals the thoughtlessness of the age of superstitions of fools that pollutes the world. If religion pollutes than get a relationship of The One who sets you free to think of thoughts that clean the world of the nasty evils of thoughtless fools.
Come and see with your heart the love of God through His Son Jesus Christ of the living God.
Psalm 85:2 “You forgave the iniquity of your people; you covered all their sin.”
December 22nd, 2009 at 10:00 pm
hyrocket, seriously, see a psychologist. Even the One Goat that you herded has left your keeping, maybe after it kicked you hard in the head.
For you and other religious nuts, listen in and listen hard:
It’s nearly 2010. Get past your foolish goat-herder -age superstitions such as Islam and Christianity and stop being an embarrassment to humanity.
December 31st, 2009 at 1:42 am
LET ME BE REAL HERE, WHY A LOT OF YOU DON’T WANT TO BELIEVE IN GOD OR THE BIBLE, BECAUSE YOU HAVE A PROBLEM WITH, AUTHORITY..BLAME THE BIBLE, SAY IT’S NOT REAL, SAY JESUS WAS NOT REAL, THEN THE ROMAN EMPIRE NEVER EXISTED, THE EGYPTIANS NEVER EXISTED…DO U WANT TO SAY THAT, CAUSE WITH OUT THEM, THEN YOU CAN’T SAY JESUS NEVER WALKED THE EARTH, BUT IF YOU ACKNOWLEDGE THEIR PAST, BUT DENY JESUS, U OR AN IDIOT + DIDN’T NERO THE EMPEROR. KILL PETER WHO WALKED WITH JESUS AND SAUL WHO WAS CALLED PAUL, AFTER HE WAS BLINDED BY THE LIGHT OF SEEING JESUS….YOUR PROBLEM IS BECAUSE YOU WANT TO LIVE A WICKED LIFESTYLE, TO PURSUE THE RIGHT TO KILL RAPE, STEAL, CHEAT, FORNICATE, MURDER, DRINK, SLEEP WITH THE SAME SEX, SLEEP WITH KIDS, DRUG ABUSE, LIE, ADULTERY,ROB, HATE, LUST AND ENJOY EVERY WICKED PLEASURE THAT YOU CAN FIND TO DO…HOW MANY OF YOU HAVE NOT DONE ONE THING I MENTIONED, IF YOU DONE ONE YOU DONE THEM ALL, THATS Y U CHOOSE NOT TO BELIEVE IN A GOD, CAUSE YOU CAN’T LIVE THE LIFESTYLE, BUT THANK GOD FOR A MAN THAT LOVED US SO MUCH THAT HE GAVE HIS LIFE SO THAT WE CAN BE FORGIVEN FOR THOSE THINGS WE DO…IM NOT PERFECT BUT I REPENT FOR THE WRONG I DO…YOU WOULD ASK IF GOD WAS REAL WHY DID HE LET 911 HAPPEN, THEN I WOULD ASK YOU, DID ANYBODY TRY TO STOP THEM, THEY HAD BOX CUTTERS BUT EVERYBODY TO SCARED TO STOP THEM, YOU WHITE MEN IN SLAVED A RACE OF PEOPLE, THEY HAD PEOPLE WHO HAD THE POWER TO STOP IT, DID ANYONE STAND UP, DID GOD DO IT, WHY MAN CAN’T TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR HIS ACTIONS, BUT IS SO WILLING TO BLAME GOD FOR EVERYTHING, WHEN HAVE YOU TRIED TO STOP SOMEONE FROM BEING RAPED, SHOT, KILLED, YOU DON’T FIRST THING YOU SAY WELL THAT NONE OF MY BUSINESS…WHATS GOING ON WITH THE WEATHER IS IT GODS FAULT OR MANS FAULT, TAKE SOME RESPONSIBILITY, THE REASON WHY 911 HAPPENED, HAVE WE DONE THE SAME AND WORSE TO OTHER COUNTRIES, BUT YOU CAN’T SEE ALL THE BAD THINGS WE DO, BUT YOUR SO QUICK TO JUMP ON THOSE WHO ARE WEAK, THAT STRIKE BACK AND WANT TO TALK ABOUT DEMOCRACY, EVERYBODY SHOULD LEAD LIKE US, WHERE U LOCK UP MOST PEOPLE OF COLOR, RACIAL PROFILE ALL PEOPLE OF COLOR, DISCRIMINATE ON RACIAL LINES, WHERE YOU HAVE THE KKK AND SKINHEADS, WHERE IS GOOD TEACH THAT WE CAME FROM APES AND IF WE CAME FROM APES WHY HAVEN’T ANY APES TURNED HUMAN IN ALL THIS TIME, DON’T U THINK WE WOULD HAVE SEEN ONE BY NOW, WE CLAIM TO BE EQUAL, BUT IF WE WAS EQUAL, THEN WHY I CAN’T MAKE THE SAME SALARY ON THE SAME JOB WITH THE SAME POSITION AS A WHITE MAN DOES, OUR SCHOOLS IN LOWER INCOME AREAS DONT LOOK THE SAME, AND IF WE LIVE IN THE RICHEST COUNTRY ON EARTH, WHY EVERY KID DOESN’T HAVE A TEXT BOOK FOR EACH SUBJECT, A DESK FOR EACH CLASS, AND THE TEACHER STUDENT RADIUS IS 1 TO 30, AND U WANT TO BLAME GOD FOR ALL THE PROBLEMS OR YOU DON’T BELIEVE IN GOD BECAUSE OF THE PROBLEM, WHY HAVEN’T YOU BLAMED THE MEN WHO CONTROL ALL OF THIS
December 31st, 2009 at 11:21 am
Wrong forum, patrick. You want the forum (and the asylum) for raving lunatics that are too stupid to realize that posting in all caps results in posts that people take less seriously.
And by the way, your logic is invalid in many instances throughout your post, and your god as described in your ravings is obviously a fable. We’ll get into the details of your errors if you return from the asylum in a less cappy state.
December 31st, 2009 at 1:42 pm
Actually, this bit is actually interesting,
Answer is yesterday.
December 31st, 2009 at 2:37 pm
Well, as usual, jagannath, you have something interesting and thought-provoking to say (no matter how absurd the whole post was, that you were responding to.).
I agree with netyahoo’s sentiments in 97 too.
Have a happy new year.
September 1st, 2010 at 6:15 am
I’m ashamed to see the narrow minded materialists have allowed their line of questioning of religion to stop and go no further than the lowest level dogmas and direct interpretations of scriptures.
That you people seem to lack the real intelligence to consider spiritual pursuit in theological - more more appropriately metaphysical terms implies that you have in fact lost the capacity to think.
I don’t hold you fully accountable though - there are so many ‘raving (fake) Christian loonies’ out there - who only have a grasp on the most basic and material form of their religion without understanding the ‘higher purpose’ (to put it simply), that I guess I can’t be surprised that you poor people have no idea what religion is.
I blame especially the evangelical Christian Churches for the problem.
The Christian creation myth is no more a fairy tale than the ‘the big bang’ (by the way, I have a degree in Science from a reputable school), and in the grand scheme of things Exodus - even merely as a piece of literature - offers more to humanity than ‘the big bang’.
Religion is the unfoldment of spiritual progress in the material world. Religion is not the objective, it is merely a tool to enable humanity to achieve greater spiritual attainment. Lower-grade elements, such as rituals, dietary habits are not ‘holy’ in of themselves, but the rituals are. Religion is also something that binds cultures and people together across space and time - unifying their purpose.
You need to look no further than the Jews - who totally surrounded by people of other faiths have had to be very strong in the promotion of their cultural and spiritual identity amongst themselves. While not ‘pious’ in the classical sense - they have an extremely strong sense of identity which is based in religion and faith - and look how absolutely successful they have been. Facebook, Microsoft, Google, EBay, Dell, (previously) Intel, Starbucks - all fundamentally Jewish, which is ‘religion’.
I would urge many of you to re-consider the narrow minded and materialist view that spiritual pursuit is an activity based upon ‘fairy tales’ - because in a very scientific sense - nothing could be further from the truth.
Hey - Al Gore’s ‘fairy tale’ regarding the flooding of New York because of global warming does not mean global warming is not real - because global warming is absolutely real, the only debate left is ‘how much we cause exactly’ and ‘at what rate will it happen’.
‘Faith in yourself’ is in fact the worst - of all possible rational and spiritual perspectives. Or to be more precise - ‘having trust in oneself or faith in ones abilities’ is perfectly fine and even advised - but to disavow spiritual pursuit in the belief that your material presence ‘is all that matters’ or ‘is a god’ (as opposed to an expression of god) - is the root, cardinal sin of all religions - period.
So - don’t worry about the ‘religious freaks’ because they are not ‘religious freaks’, they are just ‘freaks’. Find yourself as much knowledge as you can on spiritual pursuit and enlighten yourself. Pray, do some Yoga - it really helps.
For some easy to grasp but nevertheless difficult to internalize material, try ‘Exchart Tolle’.
For some really heavy stuff, try ‘Theosophistry’ or anything by ‘Alice Bailey’. Be weary though, it’s 75% rubbish, 25% pure gold. If anything, your challenge is to be able to discriminate the gold from the rubbish.
Enjoy.
September 1st, 2010 at 9:20 am
James, most of your post is wrong. The only correct part is your initial statement of your own shame. Your religion is all about shame, and you should also be ashamed to be part of it. Your post is also loaded with the No True Scotsman fallacy and several other basic fallacies. Get a fucking brain and learn to do some critical thinking.
Debate on this site is pretty much over, and your points are mistaken, old, tired, and stale. Now go here for the truth about christianity.