Question 6

Question: Mohammed had 9 wives, normal Muslims can have maximum of 4 wives if he is just. The justification for this is that Mohammed wanted to show people whom they was allowed to marry and who not. Mohammed married A’aisha when she was 9 years old. does that make marrying 9-year-old girls accepted in Islam or even a Sunnah? –Agony

Answer: It wasn’t justification for the reason you mentioned, marriage at this time to somebody who is really honorable  was honor for the woman family, that’s why our prophet married a lot of woman, to raise somebody place in the society and to bring honor to her family, most of them were older than him, only Aisha as I think was younger than him, the other thing I really understand the purpose of the question, I don’t think that our prophet has all this time to enjoy his life with his women and ignore his message, I’m just married from one wife and I barley have the time to answer your question, so imagine somebody was all his worries to turn this world to better place and guide a lot of people to Islam, do you think he would have time to enjoy his life?

Aaisha and why he married her young?,

Aaisha was the most wife of our prophet that memorized a lot of hadeeth out of him, she memorized almost 2100 hadeeth and she become on the most important source in judgment for Muslims after he died, so how can you expect somebody else from his wives to memorize all of this amount of hadeeth and they are older than him and that’s also answer for how Muslims respect women and take her judgment as something trustable.

The other reason that was also as reward for her Father Abu Baker, for all what he is done to Islam.

The other thing, that puberty in women different from time to time and from place to place, for example in Egypt it’s really hard to find a girl married before 18 and it’s not even legal because the can’t take it, in the other side you found in the Egyptian country side in Egypt girls are more healthy, they married in 15. In USA I Bet you there are girls can marry for less than 13, so you don’t know how things were going at neither this time nor this environment.

Agony I hope I answered your question, and I didn’t dodge it as you think.

–Mohamed

14 Responses to “Question 6”

  1. Agony says:

    Thanks for the answer, no you didn’t dodge it, but there are still some points i need to comment on.

    First, the most obvious:
    “in the other side you found in the Egyptian country side in Egypt girls are more healthy, they married in 15. In USA I Bet you there are girls can marry for less than 13″

    I disagree, no girl is ready to marry at 15 or 13, and i’m telling you no one, i am 20 right now and i remember how it was to be 15! if “ready for marrige” means that their body has matured… sure, then you can find girls who are ready at that age.

    Second:
    “The other reason that was also as reward for her Father Abu Baker, for all what he is done to Islam.”
    So, the prophet of islam himself married a girl in order to honor her father? Sounds to me like “Because i like Joe, i’ll buy exclusively from his shop,” and it does sound again like the Aisha being the item in this trade(show me a 14/15/16 years old girl who can decide for herself with whom to spend her life and i’ll show you a superwoman).

    Third(this might be a bit offtopic)
    “Aaisha was the most wife of our prophet that memorized a lot of hadeeth out of him, she memorized almost 2100 hadeeth and she become on the most important source in judgment for Muslims after he died”

    Why the most important? I recall there was one Sah’abi(friend of the prophet) who never forgot anything he heard, he was once asked to recite things he(the sah’abi) said 10 years ago, and he did so in the exact same order, not adding or forgetting a word. Surely that’s a more impressive source since the prophet himself asked god to bless his memory so he won’t forget anything.

    Fourth:
    “It wasn’t justification for the reason you mentioned, marriage at this time to somebody who is really honorable was honor for the woman family, that’s why our prophet married a lot of woman, to raise somebody place in the society and to bring honor to her family”

    Again from what you are saying i can’t help but imagine the woman as an item in this, much like the old japaneese and their swords…
    The only reason i ever heard why he did marry 9 women was to show poeple whom it is allowed to marry and whom not(that’s why he married one woman for example who was not a moslem…etc)

    And lastly:
    “I really understand the purpose of the question, I don’t think that our prophet has all this time to enjoy his life with his women…”
    No, the purpose of the question isn’t painting your prophet as a sex addict, it was to see how come he married a 9 years old girl! i’m sure that does need some justification, don’t you think? even for the prophet himself to do.

  2. Mohamed says:

    If there is something wrong with his society for him to do that he wouldn’t do it.

    The other thing that you can hear in the news in USA girls having sex when they are 11 or 12, so I’m not telling lies, that’s what I heard here in USA, so they were ready.

  3. Andrew says:

    Marraige was different back then than it is now. With plural marriage for status, it was often a loveless, sexless arrangement. Mohamed claims that many of Mohammed’s marriages were those of status. Is it possible that some alterinative means of consummation was provided, due to the young age? Is it possible that at nine years old she was sexually mature? Is it possible that she was actually older than nine (as some scholars suggest)?

    It is hard to look at the motivation of these political and religious leaders because of so little evidence. To impose a western view of marriage (where marriage is mostly about love, sex and taxes) to ancient cultures is haphazard.

    However, it does beg some questions. Is marriage of an older man to a child still considered proper in Islam? If not, who then chooses which ancient practices are still acceptable? Is it possible for relgious culture to adapt to modern culture without the guidance of prophets?

  4. Your Father says:

    “The other thing that you can hear in the news in USA girls having sex when they are 11 or 12, so I’m not telling lies, that’s what I heard here in USA, so they were ready.”

    There are 11 and 12 year old girls having sex everywhere, but that doesn’t mean they are ready, and it doesn’t make it right. There are also murders and rapists everywhere, so what? It is still illegal in the US and for a reason… it is wrong.

  5. Agony says:

    “The other thing that you can hear in the news in USA girls having sex when they are 11 or 12, so I’m not telling lies, that’s what I heard here in USA, so they were ready.”

    If a girl is ready to try out sex she’s ready for marrige? that’s like saying because your newborn son just learned to walk he’s ready to run in the olimpics!

    Give the matter some thought;) I am sure you are a smart guy and can imagine yourself into the situation of a 11 or 12 years old girl who got married.

  6. Bones says:

    People might want to take a step back and look at marriage again. Just realize you’ve inherited a lot of your ideals of what is wrong from society, and in America that probably means from Christianity. Yeah, there are plenty of reasons why 9 year olds should not get married, but what is the right age? When are they ready? Ok, they have to go through puberty first so they are aren’t undergoing massive physical and psychological changes. That’s reasonable. But then what? Why is it wrong for a 15 year old but not a 20 year old? Just needs to be a grace period, gotta give ‘em a few years to break their new selves in? Seems a little arbitrary. Ok, let’s say they need to have developed solid abstract reasoning. Well, that’s no good, too many people will never be able to get married. They need to be stable emotionally to get married? That’s almost a Catch-22. They need to be able to make their own decisions? Their ‘own’ decisions are always going to be influenced by their parents, society, etc. So maybe it’s when they’re not going to make decisions that they regret; when they’ve learned enough not to jump into a lifelong commitment if they won’t be happy in it. Wait, judging by the divorce rate, most of America is never ready.

    Maybe, just maybe, people always make stupid fucking decisions, and what matters is not so much that we force them to wait before making them, but that we let them take them back. Maybe marriage as a firm unyielding till death do us part commitment is a stupid idea. Even if rampant divorce means it’s not an absolute commitment in reality in some places, it’s still portrayed that way. Personally I’d rather let 12 year olds get married and know that they can get divorced that see 30 year olds have to stay married forever because of their government/society/religion. Where divorce is allowed, it’s penalized and stigmatized, which is supposed to prevent people from getting married lightly. But even if they don’t, 5 or 10 years later they’re not the same people anymore and there’s still the same penalties, the same stigma. I guess the simple answer is that you don’t have to get married anyway, but society seems to think you do. I mean, even a bitter atheist like myself has some retarded idea in his head that he wants to find a person to love and spend the rest of his life with. I just hope I can stay strong enough to not institutionalize it should that ever happen.

    I’m really rambling, but I hope some of that was coherent. It isn’t really to do with the original question, but I just saw some discussion of marriage without asking the basic question of not when, but should people be able to give over their free will to others without recourse. Not everybody can get out of a marriage by giving up half their assets and paying alimony and child support.

    I guess I’ll ask Mohamed what he thinks of divorce and what role religion should play in keeping relationships together while I’m at it. If you don’t mind answering another question, that is.

  7. Agony says:

    When you think that a boy/girl has become old enough to live alone and be responsible for everything they do(driving, carrying weapons for self defense…etc) i guess they are old enough to marry. So the arbitary age of 18 isn’t so bad i think… I certainly don’t want to see a 14 years old boy marrying a 12 years old, simply because they don’t understand what on earth it means to be married!

    If people over 18 aren’t yet able to develop their abstract reasoning that’s pretty much their problem, we cannot babysit them forever…

    Divorce has penalties? i never checked out this issue(partly because i have a nice girlfriend and not planning to get married anytime soon, or maybe at all.) I certainly don’t want to see people getting married lightly, but penalties for couples who were together for 5+ years? this is a bit stupid i think…

  8. Andrew says:

    @Agony

    I agree that I don’t want to see 14 year olds in America marrying because they aren’t able to understand what America’s current definition of marriage is.

    Just realize that comparing America’s current version of marriage to Mohammed and Aisha’s ancient version of marriage is like comparing a daschund to a wolf.

    In the West, we grow up, leave home, and then marry. In Old Testament times, you got married, grew up, and then left home. That simple change of order alone makes these two types of marriage so vastly different that they can not be judged under the same standard.

    I don’t even know what marriage is like in Islam. So it would be hard for me to say that marriage at 14 is bad. Perhaps marriage there is more like the old custom, where marriage is part of growing up, not the culmination.

  9. Mohamed says:

    Andrew,

    Agony here to mislead people, he doesn’t want to understand or try to find the truth, he just want to make points, he doesn’t care that was from 1400 years, people has different culture and have different thinking.

    I remember me and my day was always arguing about a lot of things due to the generation difference between me and him, and it was just 20 years difference.

    Agony has one mission, misleading the people, not understanding.

  10. Andrew says:

    I think we are all here to debate and learn. I’d rather talk more about the topic and hear less speculation on what the motivation behind individual’s comments are. Even if Agony had such a mission, arguments against what he is saying based on that assumption are ad hominem circumstantial.

    Rules for all to live by in debate:
    1. Attack the idea, not the person behind it. I’m saddened that we only got to comment 9 before the first personal attack was launched. I pray that good judgement will prevent a like response.
    2. Don’t take attacks against your ideas personally.

  11. Outsider says:

    It’s kinda funny to hear people stating that marrying for status for your family is troublesome… Especially when there are a large number of people, here and now, that do the exact same thing for personal gain. Especially when you stop to consider that by bringing your family honour up, you bring your own honour even higher.

    It’s the same argument that is used against arranged marriage. If the people in the marriage don’t know each other, how can they love each other? Well, because they know what they’re getting into and are ready to try and make it work. It may not be your kind of relationship, but for those in it, it works. (At least as often as western marriages do, anyway.)

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